Ep 16: Trucks vs. Trailers: Why the Best Leaders Start as Followers

What separates those who reach their goals from those who don't? Two words: mentors and mistakes.

In this solo episode of The Drive, Craig Harvey shares one of his most requested talks — Trucks vs. Trailers — and why the best leaders in the world started out as great followers.

Drawing from the ancient origin of the word "mentor," Bill Belichick's coaching tree, Frank Lucas's 15-year apprenticeship under Bumpy Johnson, and his own experience leading 20,000+ agents, Craig makes the case that followship isn't a weakness — it's the foundation of every great leader.

In this episode:

Why the two greatest teachers in life are mentors and mistakes
The dangerous cost of being promoted before you're ready
3 things every great truck (leader) does: cast, create, and chauffeur
5 traits of effective trailers — and why followship is wildly underrated
How to choose the right mentor (and avoid hitching your wagon to a jackass)
Why culture eats talent for breakfast
The one language every winning team needs to speak
Whether you're building a team, climbing the ranks, or just figuring out your next move — this one's for you.

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👍 Like and share this with someone who needs a mentor — or needs to BE one.

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Wherever it is you want to go, education is the key that unlocks that door. What I've learned is that it's through mistakes or mentors that you learn those lessons. Tune in today to the drive as we talk about the mentors that can help us get there further and faster than the mistakes that can slow us down. All right, guys, welcome back to the drive. Craig Harvey here. So excited that you have chosen yet again to tune in. Uh riding, riding solo today, baby. It's just me. Are you liking what we're doing? Can you give us a thumbs up? Uh, can you can you give us a like? Maybe share this with somebody that that needs a little leadership. I used to call it sales juice, man. Uh back when I owned uh my company. You know, we did insurance. We we helped old people solving problems, end-of-life issues. Everybody else showed up with a bill because of us. Uh we, you know, we had a check showing up to the senior. It changed their life. Hopefully, this is doing something for you. I want to talk about this uh comment that I made. You know, the two greatest teachers in life, I do believe, mistakes or mentors. And when you hear the word mentor, when you hear the word mentor, when you hear the word mentor, I think of that song, I need a hero. Do you guys sing? Any karaoke people out there? Yeah, you ever sing that song? I need a hero. I'm holding on for a hero to the end of the night. You ever hear that? He's gotta be strong and he's gotta be fast, it's gotta be fresh from the fight. I want to change the words today from hero to I need a mentor. Huh? Come on, you like that. You like that right there. I need a mentor. Yeah, all right, that was a little high. That was a little off key. But nonetheless, you do need a mentor. You know why? Because you're gonna make dumbass decisions without a guide, without someone to go first, without someone who's been there, without someone who has prior knowledge. And I I genuinely believe the two greatest teachers in your life and in my life will be the mistakes we make or the mentors along the way that that that we create. I I wrote a talk uh, I don't know, a couple years ago called Trucks versus Trailers. And it's on mentorship. It's about are you a truck or are you a trailer? And what is the difference? Let me just give you some history here. In 1896, let me go to glasses for this. In 1896, uh Godlib Dauman uh built the first truck and he modeled it after the horse and wagon. So you have a horse, you have a wagon, and before this there were cars, but no one had built a truck. And he built this truck by looking at the horse and the wagon. He said, Well, shit, if there's a horse, right, that that is pulling a wagon, why not build a truck where you have the body up front and you have the bed in the back and you're able to carry, be able to load in this vehicle and transport. And so it took off. It took off like wildfire. I don't know any of you know truck owners out there. Uh I've got a big old Hummer outside, EV, uh, big old giant. Uh if you've ever owned a truck, you don't want to get rid of it because you understand the power of it. Now, I want to talk about a truck versus a trailer. And I want to just tell you something, and I hope you lean in and really listen to what I'm about to say. The way you follow others as a trailer is the way others will follow you when you become a truck. Let me say that again. The way you follow your leader right now, if you're the trailer and you're following a truck, is the way once you become a truck, that trailer will follow you. I had, Lord have mercy, 20,000, I would say, agents uh at one time or another under our tutelage, under our coaching, under our leadership. So many times I would have a former trailer who became a truck and now they have their own organization. And they would come to me and they would say, Craig, I'm just struggling with, you know, getting my people to be coachable, getting my people to really fall into line and listen to what I'm saying. I'm like, well, damn, Brian, that's the same shit you struggled with our entire just existence together. I don't have people go, Craig, I'm I've had so much trouble having people show up on time. They never seem to be punctual. They're always late. They're late to every conference call, they're late to every meeting, they're late to every event. What in the world could I do? Well, you could probably model it better because guess what? That was your damn problem for the entire time that I knew you. Isn't it amazing how people do what is caught, not what is taught? And I want to say again, the way you follow others is the way others are going to follow you. Now, let me just start out by saying that the best trucks, in my opinion, leaders, start out as trailers followers. And I want to jump right to this because some of y'all don't even give me the damn time to get to the good shit. So here it is. What is so wrong with followship? Why do you have such a problem with followship? Why, why, why, why, why are our egos so weak that that we look at followship as something that is less than, and something that is minuscule, something that that that is frowned upon. It's just not it's just not sexy to be a follower. Really? I'm gonna show you today, if you'll pay attention, how there has there is, I can think of one man, maybe Jesus H Christ, okay, that that that really didn't have a leader before him. You could say John the Baptist, for those of you that went to seminary, okay? That that he prepared the way, but but nonetheless, that had a mentor that had someone go before them and teach them that showed them. So followship to me. Everybody wants to go to the head of the line. The worst thing in the world isn't for you to not have an opportunity. The worst thing is for you to be promoted before you're ready. The worst thing is for that stage to be set and the lights to come up and the curtains open and your ass not have a damn thing to say, for you not to be ready for the weight that's on your shoulders because you've rushed the process and you didn't lean in to followship. So let me say again the best trucks start out as trailers. In other words, great leaders start out as great followers. And this is why this is so important. It's one thing to be able, let's say, to be a great trailer. But then when you get promoted to being a truck, you're no longer JD Vance. Now you're Donald J. Trump. You hear me? And there's a massive difference between being the vice president or being the president. Let's talk sports. You know, I love my sports analogies. Bill Belichick, they call him the GOAT. I agree. Greatest coach of all time. You can't argue uh with his multiple rings, with seven rings, something like that. Uh just an amazing coach. Built strong trailers. What do I mean by trailers? Assistant coaches. Assistant coaches within an organization. But once these trailers became trucks, head coaches, they struggled. Romeo Cornell, Eric Mangini, Josh McDaniels, Bill O'Brien, Pat, uh, Matt Patricia, Brian Flores, Brian Dayball, Joe Judge, stay away from the New York Giants, Lord have mercy, Gerard Mayo, Charlie Weiss, Jim Schwartz, Al Grow, all of these dominated as trailers, working for, making hundreds, if not millions of dollars, hundreds of thousands, if not millions of dollars, okay? Once they stepped in and became the truck themselves, guess what? The organization struggled. You know what's even worse? Eight of the 12 that I just read to you divorced. Eight of the 12. So it doesn't just affect you financially, it affects your family when you're born a trailer. Nothing wrong with it. But but you try to excel or extend yourself into a place that you're not ready for. Trying to be a truck. Some of the most ill-advised, wisdomless, financially crippling decisions I've ever seen have been made by, can I say dumbasses that just didn't know the role, that that had ego get in the way. That that that that they they weren't they weren't accept of the success they were experiencing and they thought they could do it better than the person above them. And as a result, they wound up walking that plank and and finding finding a sea that was way rockier than they thought that it would be. And so I would just say to a lot of you watching, your best shot at seven figures isn't trying to start a new path and be a truck in an industry or even in an organization where you already have support and you have coaching and you have teaching and you have tutelage and you have leadership that's present and trying to go outside of that and do your own thing. That is dangerous. I've seen so many people wreck their lives. I love what Jim Valvano said. Don't F with happiness. When something's working and the trailer in you is rolling, followship is underrated. Do you hear me? Followship is underrated. Maybe the best example for this is uh in one of the greatest, I would say, uh criminal movies of all time, uh, American Gangster. Any drug dealers out there, huh? Former drug dealers? Frank Lucas knew what I was talking about. Frank Lucas followed a guy named Bumpy Johnson around for years, and he was his trailer. Frank Lucas was the trailer to Bumpy Johnson being the truck from 1968 for 15 years until, excuse me, from 1953 to 1968, 15 years, Frank Lucas was Bumpy Johnson's trailer. Followed where he led, did what he said, just just picked up what Bumpy put down, so much so that when Bumpy went on, guess who was there after 15 years? Some of you look 15 months, bro. 15 months in an organization, and you think you're ready to drive the car, you think you're ready to captain the ship, you think you're ready to fly the plane. He said, he studied for 15 years. And what I'm saying for me, I look at our organization that we built. I started it when I was 33. And a lot of people said, wow, Craig, you guys grew fast. Really? No, since I was 20, man, I was studying for this. I was getting ready for something I didn't know was coming. I was studying for a class that I didn't know I would I was gonna teach. I was studying for a session I didn't even know I was going to be able to lecture to. I was preparing and I was getting ready as a trailer, knowing one day when my truck opportunity comes, I will not have wasted it by not learning in the early stages, by not following. That's what Frank did. Look, I love the movie. Shout out to you, Denzel. You did an amazing job. I just want to say that trucks and trailers are united on any journey. There's no separation in their destination, it's just credit. I mean that's that's what that seriously, like the okay, whoever is driving the truck gets the credit. And that's what some of our problems are. It's all about ego, man. It's all about credit. If you could ever get over who gets the freaking credit, it would be amazing as to what we could do. If you tune into these podcasts, you know I'm a we guy, not a me guy. I'm about us, I'm not about I. And for those of you that that log off. If you're an I guy, if if you're a me guy, just shut this shit down because I'm gonna piss you off. But you know what? You're the one that should get pissed off because you're cheating yourself. It's not about me. It's we. It's not about I, it's us. And if you ever understand that, then you get the power of the truck and the trailer. The truck needs the trailer as much as the trailer needs the truck. And this is where, in my opinion, when you really begin to understand trucks are about direction, but trailers are about delivery. Trucks have horsepower, where trailers have haul power. The experience that trailers get hauling for trucks, oh my God, the fact that you get to sit underneath somebody that's doing this at a higher level than you, that's making more, that that is overriding more, that has a greater sphere of influence, that has their name on the sign. Guess what? Listen, when you be patient and you learn and you grow and you begin to mature over time, it turns you into something that you would have never been had you rushed the process. Again, followship versus leadership. So I'm gonna tell you three things trucks do. Are you ready? If you're a truck out there and you're leading an organization, there's three things you do, and you know you do this. You cast, you create, and you chauffeur. You cast, you create, and you chauffeur. Number one, you cast vision. You know this. As a truck, I've been casting vision since the day I opened an organization. Can I tell you what vision is? Vision is seeing something that isn't. Vision is not having a building, but talking about a building that one day you will have. Vision is seeing hundreds of thousands of agents when right now you've got hundreds of agents. It is painting a verbal picture in a sky that is blue and even sometimes gray. Because as trucks, we have to cast vision on what's next, on where we're going, on what we're doing. But we don't just cast, do we? We create. We create the ultimate differentiator, which is called momentum. Dude, moment, bro, momentum is the steroid. It is the absolute accelerant in your gas tank that if you have it, you know it. And if you don't, Lord have mercy, you're like, where in the hell did it go? It is the energy to create performance. And that is what trucks do, is they create momentum within an organization. Ultimately, we show for success, don't we? As a truck, we let the trailer come with us to places they would not be had it not been for our influence in their life. When I was building my organization, I used to always say this: I want my top guys to go home and tell their spouse, their husband, their wife, you know what, I'm gonna make more money because Craig Harvey is in my corner. I'd rather play for that some bitch than have to fight against him. I'd rather that guy be with me than against me. And I'm not saying it's a guarantee. I'm not saying that you know the fight is fixed, but here's what I know having him with us versus against us puts us in a more favorable position to win. That's a truck. And some of you need to be reminded of what it is that you are. So let's talk trailers for a second. Can I give you five traits of trailers real fast? Five traits of trailers, okay? That I think as a trailer, remember, you're not a trailer forever. You're a trailer for a season. How long? Frank Lucas was a trailer for 15 years. I was a trailer for maybe eight years. I don't know how long your progression is or how long your learning curve is, but I promise you this you'll never be as great a truck as you could have been if you were a diligent follower and trailer first. So let's talk. Number one, choose the right truck. Choose the right truck. Now you do know you're the saddle of the story, right? Like if you're the trailer, you're not the horse, you're the saddle, you realize that, right? Okay. The worst thing you can do is pick a pony. The worst thing you can do as a trailer is pick a jackass. The worst thing you can do is pick a mule, hitch yourself to, you know, some dumbass donkey, and you're like, okay, I might choose this, you know, some bitch to hitch my wagon to. Always look for what you want in someone else. Always follow someone that has what you want. Always look for traits or qualities, houses they live in, cars they drive, watches they own, not rent, boats that are theirs and they just don't rent them on the weekend and post and clip. Dude, that's what you're looking for. Is is again, hitching yourself. Choosing the right truck makes all the difference in the world. Number two, as a trailer, your job is to watch your trucks back. Watch your trucks back. Can I tell you something? Trucks get scratches. It's just it just works. Trucks get scratches. Trucks are they're not perfect. Trucks are going to have inaccuracies. They're gonna break down at times, they're gonna need uh you know, refueling at times. Trucks are gonna need oil changes, trucks are gonna need new tires at times. Doesn't make the truck bad. You know what it makes the truck human. And so, as a trailer, I'm just telling you, if you will get a truck's back when things go wrong, let me say this. Sooner or later, as a trailer, you're gonna have a reason to be disloyal. I talk to my guys about this all the time. You don't know you're loyal until you have a reason to be disloyal. Everybody says, I'm loyal, man, I'm loyal, I got your back. You don't know that until the fit hits the shan, bro. You don't know that uh until you know the the the something goes wrong and and somebody doesn't handle something exactly perfect, and you have a reason to be disloyal, that is when loyalty is tested. And I've just learned, I'm gonna say it again. The way you follow others is the way others are gonna follow you. Trust me, man. I'm old man now. The old time, Harvey time, okay? 50-year-old, okay? I've been through this. And the way I followed others, I've got loyal guys, you know why? I was crazy loyal. Loyal to a fault at times, right? Now I had my problems and vices and issues, but loyalty wasn't one of them. And so I'm just telling you, remember, the way you trailer your truck is the way when you're a truck, your trailers will follow you. Number, number three, quickly, keep your culture clean. Your culture. Man, I was talking culture back in the day. It's become a buzzword, man. I did I was talking about this shit in 2011, when we first, I mean, years ago. I mean, years ago, man, when people were just starting organizations, I'm saying, look, I don't want, I don't want to put uh, I could give you a multiplicity of analogies, but an individual whose frame of mind, whose values, whose work ethic, whose uh, whose ideas, whose ideologies don't mesh with ours. It's that important. Matter of fact, I'd rather have less talented. Can I tell you something? I can teach skill. I really can. I I can teach you uh presentation. I can teach you to overcome objections. I can teach you how how to to craft uh a statement in a situation that will create a favorable advantage. You know what I can't teach? Trust. You know what I can't teach? Authenticity. You know what I can't teach? Character. And so, in my opinion, keeping your culture clean is understanding that you gotta draft trust over talent. And nowadays it's all okay, talent, talent, I get it. Thanks be to God, if you meet both, right? But I'm telling you now, from somebody that's been there, done that, sold it, and and and you know, can do it again tomorrow if he has to, draft trust. Because talent is overrated if trust isn't present. Number four, own something on your own. You know, a lot of you guys, if you're a trailer, and again, we're talking about five traits of trailers here. If you're a trailer, you're working for an individual that owns the dealership, they own uh the the agency, they own the real estate brokerage, they own the entity. When you begin to do something, not only to meet needs, people always talk about getting raises, meet more needs and you'll you'll you'll make more money. Instead of saying, can I get more commission or could I have a bump before I've earned it, you know, whenever someone would come to me and say, Craig, what were the top two problems if I could help you solve could take something off your plate. Dude, that's the guy that I look to bonus even when they didn't deserve it. Owning something on your own is so powerful. It's so practical because now you're throwing a Halloween party. Nobody's gonna do it. The boss is able to show up, and guess what? You're the one. You're able to throw the Fourth of July uh celebration. You're able to create the Christmas party that no one else is. Why don't we do a Christmas party? It's a big great idea. I wish somebody would do that. Why the hell don't you do it? Own something on your own. I remember years ago, a guy started a bowling night in our company every Monday night. I'm a decent bowler. Yeah, I've broken 200 a couple of times uh in my career. This guy could bowl. That's what that's why he did it because he whipped our ass in bowling. But it was such a great event and he created it. It became an ab listen, I probably, I'm not joking, I probably hired a thousand people in my career from this one bowling night off 285 in Atlanta at at the bowling alley uh Sandy Springs right there. Listen, it was an amazing event. I didn't even create it. Somebody else owned it. A trailer that worked for me created this opportunity. And oh my God, it took off. That guy's still with us to this day. Shout out to you, brother. You know who you are. Appreciate you. Uh last thing I'll say on being a trailer that is able to support your truck and get to the places you want to go. Teach one language on your team. Teach one language on your team. I I don't care what team you're on, everybody speaks a language. My little boy, you might be able to hear little Rocky screaming over there, right? Little little badass some bitch. He's 20 months today. Did you know that? Today's the 24th, yeah. He's 20 months old today. That's why he's yelling. He's like his mama. He's like his mama. You know, he's like his daddy. He is is hollering hollering his ass off. Um, we have two nannies, both of them are fluent in Spanish. My wife is Latin. And so Rocky's speaking, and I'm like, this boy's got a speech impediment. This boy can't speak. What's he saying? He's saying La Vaca and Puito Arbanio, and he's talking about Verde and this and that. I'm like, what's the matter with him? And I'm like, oh shit, he's speaking Spanish. My dumb ass doesn't get it. A lot of times in sales organizations, you have a fragmented vocabulary when it comes to the verbiage and the words that you teach. And what happens is the same way, you know, one doesn't understand the other, if you can singularize your language and your vocabulary, I don't care what you're doing, we are in the convincing business. We are in the business of meeting needs. We are in the business of solving problems. We are in the business of creating solutions where there are inaccuracies. And what I've learned is when you have a massive team, when you have hundreds, dare I say thousands, tens of thousands like we do, making that burger so it tastes the same way in Minneapolis as it does in Memphis, as it does in Miami, as it does in Milwaukee makes all the difference. So if sales are different in Milwaukee or Miami or Memphis or wherever Minneapolis, it's not the way the burger tastes. And so I'm telling you, that is massive. To be able to singularize your language, it's huge. What you're really looking for is a mentor. What you're really looking for is someone to come alongside you and help you avoid some of the mistakes that you would have made had you not known this individual. I researched this word. Where does the word mentor come from? It comes from one of the oldest stories, the Odyssey. And Odysseus, uh, as my son, thank you, Caden, has helped me correctly pronunciate, uh, leaves to fight for the Trojan War. And what he does, he leaves his youngest son, uh Telemachus, with his longest friend. And Telemachus is just a baby. He's two years old, the story says. And Odysseus says, Look, Telemachus, this is my boy. He's my pride and joy. I've got to go fight in this war. I need you to watch after him as if he was your own. Knowing Odysseus knew he may not return. Probably, probably not coming back from this Trojan war. And so he gives his only son, Telemachus, to his best friend, and he says, Watch him as though he is your own. And Odysseus does this, and his friend raised him. He raised him like his own, so much so that this boy grew up, he grew in genius, he grew in height, he grew in stature, and he went on to be an amazing success to Telemachus, if you'll look at the story. You know what Odysseus's friend's name was? Mentor. Mentor. That is where we get the name mentor. Because Odysseus lent and gave his only son, Telemachus, to his best friend, mentor. And because mentor did such a great job, for ages and years the story was told. Be a mentor, be a mentor, be a mentor, be a mentor, be a mentor. I don't know if you're being mentored or if you are mentoring others. It's one of the greatest gifts you can do. It's one of the greatest legacies you can leave, is to not have the people that mean the most to you make mistakes. It's to have them learn through your leadership as a mentor. Thank you for tuning in to the drive.