Ep 17: The Art of Building Leaders: With Alstin Vanderford

Craig Harvey has made over $60 million in insurance. Alstin Vanderford leads one of the fastest-growing teams the company has ever seen. In this episode, they sit down and just talk. Just two guys who came from nothing, built something real, and are telling you exactly how they did it.

They get into the mistakes that kill most young builders before they ever get started, why being great at sales doesn't mean you can build a team, and what Craig actually looks for when he's deciding who to invest his time in. Alstin asks the questions this time, and Craig doesn't hold back.

They also get personal. Craig opens up about what he'd do differently after 15 years in the business, the cost of going all-in, and why chasing success at the expense of your family is a trade you'll eventually regret.

If you're in insurance or in sales at any level, this one's worth your full attention.

Topics covered:

· The most common mistakes new builders make
· How to identify who's actually worth your time and energy
· Recruiting tips that actually work
· Red flags in recruiting you can't afford to ignore
· The 80/20 rule
· What it means to build something that lasts

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Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

How many like money? I hope you raised your hand, unless you're driving and you can steer with one hand. Look, look, I'm just gonna tell you multiplication beats addition every time. But the only way you can multiply is if you're able to learn what it is you do and then not just get paid for what you're doing. Now you get paid for what you know. My father used to say you can do the work of 10 men or you can train 10 men to do the work. We're gonna talk about that today on the drive. All right, let's go. NASB Nation. I know tons of you are tuning in. I have got Beast Mode back in the house. What's up, stud?

SPEAKER_01 0:40

Hey, brother, how are you? You're looking good, buddy. Thank you, too.

SPEAKER_00 0:43

Did you shave your head for this?

SPEAKER_01 0:44

No. No? It just stays like that.

SPEAKER_00 0:46

Is that how it does? All right. We're talking growth today, guys. We're talking about um, again, building an organization from the success that you've experienced. And let's just start there, Alston, because I think it's very difficult to try to build success in an area where you haven't had success. This is not like some Jeff Van Gundy uh, you know, basketball coach that, that, that Bill Belichick, I mean, he might have been a punter, okay, that that that played at some level. I know Nick Sabin was a was a quarterback in West Virginia years ago. For the most part, in our business, great coaches were once great players. Do you agree?

SPEAKER_01 1:27

Agreed. 100%. Yeah, you have to be able to play the sport or play the game before you can coach anybody. And that's my opinion. Now, you don't have to be the top, you don't have to be the Michael Jordan, um, but you have to be able to play to be able to coach. So I um, but thank you, Craig, for for having me, man. Yeah, I've really appreciated it. It's been fun down here.

SPEAKER_00 1:46

Well, look, the reason you're here is because you have led one of the fastest growing and most stable organizations that our company has seen. And look, success leaves clues. So we're gonna kind of go back and forth today. Yeah. You said you had some questions you wanted to ask me, which I'm I'm normally the asker, not not the asked, but here we go.

SPEAKER_01 2:07

Well, how often do you get to to talk to the person that's made how much money have you made in insurance so far? Not enough. Not enough. I know the number though. Yeah, somewhere around 60 million, is that right?

SPEAKER_00 2:18

Well, don't don't tell my accounted or my ex-wife.

SPEAKER_01 2:20

Okay, because I mean, but how often do you get to sit down with someone that's made that much money? You know, so I've got some questions from my heart and from my team. And uh let's see uh what you think about these, okay?

SPEAKER_00 2:33

We'll see if I'm on the hot seat. See how hot this shit gets.

SPEAKER_01 2:36

All right, man. So um you make a lot of mistakes when you start building an agency. So what would you say are some of the biggest mistakes that young builders make, and how could you overcome those?

SPEAKER_00 2:47

Young builders, you know, I think one of the things I see guys um do that they shouldn't is when you see someone that can write at a high level, you automatically think they're your next builder. So when someone breaks 10,000 in a week, when they're writing uh a very large amount of apps or premium, you automatically think that that ability, that skill set is transferable when actually the the art, and I'm gonna say it's an art, of coaching, of developing, of teaching someone to do, while you do have to have previous success, just because you can write business at a high level, just because you're a producer, doesn't mean you're a reproducer. Okay, just just because you were great at it doesn't mean you can coach it. And so one of the initial mistakes I see people make is that they just they they falsely and dare I say erroneously believe that when someone writes at a high level, they're automatically their next builder. The second thing is they they promote based on charisma versus character. Now, wouldn't it be great if everybody that had you know strong character, there were good people from a morality, and and you can trust them not to write bad business or stab you in the back, uh, also uh was was someone that that had uh great verbiage, a great skill, a great ability to articulate the presentation. They had a strong work ethic. But for whatever reason, I've just seen this dichotomy where you've got someone that is like a high morality, high character. Then you got somebody over here that, okay, they're strong at their game. They're able to write business at a high level, but maybe their character's weak. Does that make sense? Or maybe you've got somebody of very high character, but they just don't have the ability to sell. What we're looking for is some kind of a median, some kind of a marriage there that you can find quality writers with with quality men or women. Because the worst thing in the world you can do is promote the wrong person, give them power, and they have low character, right? Eventually it's gonna burn you. Or you have someone, again, high character, but they they they don't have the numbers to be able to command the audience. You you you have to have seen some mistakes made in your organization, young guys make.

SPEAKER_01 5:06

Yeah, well, uh one of the biggest mistakes I've seen for for new builders at least is they get hot and cold. So they'll go all in on recruiting and all in on building really quickly, and then they turn it off. I got three people in the pipeline. I I have enough. And then what we know after you've been here for a while is some people come and some people go. So if you're not constantly keeping that pipeline full, um, it's hard to when when those people do quit to feel motivated to keep going out there and and keep selling and and keep building. So the the biggest mistake I've seen is is people turn it off. Sure. So they they turn it off.

SPEAKER_00 5:43

Um sales is spelled C H A N G E. I wished it wasn't. I hate change, right? I mean, I like things to be exactly the way they are. I'm a methodical guy. I like to wake up at the same time, do the same things in the morning. I'm a creature of habit. All of us are. And once once that machine is rolling, you don't want that to be altered in any way. It will be altered. And what you've got to do is backfill. You've got to continue to add to look, college football, pre-NIL, I don't want to get into the whole NIL buying players and things like that, although we've we've experienced that in our in our business. If you're a coach and you're coaching former college, you know you may have a badass. That dude's going pro. Let's talk football. You've got him two, maybe three years. He's going to the NFL, which means you've got to, again, find the next quarterback, find the next running back, find the next defensive end, the offensive lineman, that badass wide receiver. So your mind has to constantly be thinking of what's next, what's next, what's next. Not foregoing and taking your mind off of what's now, because I don't want to hire, you know, a ton of talent and then kind of let them just mold or let them not develop. Does that make sense? Yeah, it does. But I've got to also keep a mindful eye on what is coming in the future versus versus what is is today.

SPEAKER_01 7:05

Yeah. Yeah. Well, great answer, man. Well, okay, so staying on that same topic now. You've built, you've built or helped build uh a lot of you know great builders. You know, you have Jordan, you have Evan, you know, you you've helped these take these guys from brand new to insurance pretty much to you know seven-figure earners. What are the top traits that you see in your top builders?

SPEAKER_00 7:30

Well, there was a drive in them, man. There was a um, they had a look in their eye that I had in my eye. It was a hunger in a mole. Um, none of them had made a hundred thousand dollars before I'd met them. Evan might have. I I take that back. I'm sure Jordan in his candy sales or the the the various things that that he dabbled in, he was just a a a closet winner if there ever was one. Um but I I saw a drive initially. I saw someone that had a passion, an intensity, a ferocity. There was also a loyalty. Because when you find someone that has not made the kind of money that you help them make and they're able to crack a hundred grand, 250, 500,000, dare I say a million or more. Jordan sold his business for I think 43 million. There's a level of loyalty that you will always have to an individual that helps you achieve a place that you've never been able to achieve. They help you ring a bell that you would not have rung without them. Dude, that that creates a synergy. That's a there's a bond there, there's a glue that uh is is is sticky as shit. And so I would say, again, just just uh a ferocity, uh a drive one, two, there was a loyalty. There was also a coachability factor. And for me, I I was a little older than those boys. I know I don't look it. I know Jordan looks a lot older than me. All right. Sorry, sorry, Cora, okay, to his wife. Um, but the truth of the matter is I was able to lead them in a way that they would receive the coaching, they would listen to the tutelage, they would, they were open to the knowledge. Where a lot of guys I've tried to work with, it was more they were closed-minded. They weren't open to the ideas or to the theories or or to the proven systems that I knew would work. But I needed someone to believe in it. I needed someone to really dive into it. And so, look, there was a ferocity there. Uh, there was uh obviously, as I just mentioned, a teachability, uh, a coachability there, which that probably is the most important component of them all. Um, those are just a few that come to mind.

SPEAKER_01 9:42

It's crazy though, that the one thing, in my opinion, too, that you can't really um quantify when you're hiring someone is the hunger. And that to me, the hunger is the number one uh indic uh indicator on whether someone's gonna be successful or not.

SPEAKER_00 9:59

You ever hire a soft worker? You ever hire anybody that's lazy? Nobody tells you they're lazy. Nobody tells you that. Everybody's a hard worker, right? Yep. Everybody, everybody's a, you know, no, nobody's nobody's closet lazy or a soft worker, as I like to, as I like to call it, um, until you get out there in the field. Anybody can make excuses because look, excuses really are reasons to fail, but to overcome that, to have that tenacity. And again, a lot of the guys, most of the guys that I work directly with, we all came from little. We didn't come from big, we all came from lack, we didn't come from plenty. And it was it was through that basement of experience that a belief and a desire was born that you know, while I'm not the son of a millionaire, my sons will be the son of a millionaire. And that's a whole different discussion.

SPEAKER_01 10:58

And and you and I are gonna have to get together and find out how to give our uh sons and daughters that same drive. I know, I know. All right, man. Well, uh, what you know, you've been here how long now?

SPEAKER_00 11:10

Shit, 15 years.

SPEAKER_01 11:12

15 years, yeah. What over those 15 years, what what's been your best recruiting tip if you were to help, you know, somebody just starting out?

SPEAKER_00 11:20

That's such a great question. I I've always said my go-to answer is you gotta have something somebody wants. I I mean, when I started to to dress a little nicer, live a little nicer, drive a little nicer, um there was you can't hide money. Right. And so um, you know, it's as silly as it sounds, there's a lot of $30,000 millionaires out there. I get it. Fake Rolexes or Panoras or whatever it might be, rented homes, rented vehicles that they shoot videos of what it is. Guys would call me to try to recruit me. And and I I didn't do this to be a a jerk. I I authentically, I said, Hey, are you at home? Can you can you just snapshot me a picture of your house? Can you snapshot me a picture of your vehicle collection? What fleet are are you riding in? Do you mind showing me your collection of watches? A lot of times they get angry and I'm like, listen, dude, I I don't want to work for somebody that is below where I am. If I'm a nine, hell, I want you to be a 10 in earnings, in what you can add to me. You've heard me say this. People don't leave you until they stop learning from you. And so when I say learning, it's not just from an educational standpoint, it's experiential. It's it's the ability to say, with this guy in my corner, with this guy in my life, I have a better shot at getting to the goals that I've set for myself. And so um, I'm sure you've got some thoughts on this, and I I I'm anxious to hear that because again, you have been the fastest growing team we've had the last three years. So your thoughts on that same question.

SPEAKER_01 12:52

So it's funny, you were talking about you getting around people that have a little bit more than you. I I'm a car guy, and I've learned that there's a car named a Rezvani. This is that did I say it right? I've learned there's a car called a Rezvani.

SPEAKER_00 13:05

I didn't even know what the heck that is. Dude, so we we were with Americo. Shout out to the Merriman family uh and the guys in Kansas City. We were going to an event, and Jamie Foxx was going to the same event. He got out of a Rezvani. Jamie Foxx, okay, the actor, singer, entrepreneur. And so I told my son, I took a picture, and I said, Caden, one day daddy's gonna buy a resvani. And, you know, when when things go right, daddy's buying one. And so, you know, we had had some success. Success is always dependent upon, you know, the seat you sit in. To us, it was great success. And so Caden was like, Daddy, have you had enough success yet? Can you get that? Can you buy that resvonnie? So I bought one. I bought one, why the hell not, man? It's just money it spins.

SPEAKER_01 13:46

Amen. Well, my best recruiting tip would probably be identify the people early that you want to add to your business. So, like I mean, I've told you before, we don't hire everybody. So we hire three types of people former athletes, former salespeople, former military. And the biggest thing for us is building a culture. So you have to get that culture right when you start. If you hire a ragtag bunch and just expect that to grow over time, it's not going to.

SPEAKER_00 14:14

So be strategic in your selection process, is what you're saying.

SPEAKER_01 14:17

Yes, yes, be strategic about who you bring out.

SPEAKER_00 14:19

So let me just say that. I've I've often said that every Rosie O'Donnell knows a Jennifer Aniston. So, you know, I don't want to go out rosy. No, I'll date Jennifer though. If if if my wife passes away, okay, God forbid. Then maybe I would I would take the call from Miss Aniston. Point being, there's times a dud leads to a stud. So I'm not saying that that you necessarily shut off opportunities, but whom you draw close to you, whom you allow to maximize your time. Um, you know, talking, uh developing more than recruiting, one of the things I learned early on was that I needed to spend 80% of my time with my top 20%. 80% of my time had to be devoted to my top 20%. Somebody says that's assholic, that's mean. Boy, you're being very selective. Hell yeah, I'm being selective because my time is valuable. I can't spread it around equally if I'm not getting an equal return. And so when I looked at my top 20%, where am I going to get the greatest 80% return? It's spending 80% of my time with my top 20%. Dude, once I started to do that, we just saw explosive growth.

SPEAKER_01 15:31

But that's hard to do when you start, right? Because you want every person you bring in to make it. And uh you see probably more in them than they see in themselves.

SPEAKER_00 15:39

To disagree with you, uh, if you have four, quantify, qualify, identify your top one. That's your top 25%. If you have eight, find your top two. If you've got 10, find your top three. You know who your top three are. They're responsive, uh, they they are uh on the calls, they're not late, they keep their word, their numbers are up. It's it's easy to identify whom it is that's a great producer. And again, you need to produce in to be able to reproduce. Now, just because you can produce doesn't mean you can reproduce, but that is where the time and and the intensity, the 80% with your top 20, identifies who it is has something extra in the tank that can be that direct, that can really help just take you to a place you're not at. Okay, Craig.

SPEAKER_01 16:25

Well, with all that being said, what what are some red flags that that you see uh in team building team building? Sorry.

SPEAKER_00 16:33

Man, I I I I I probably am the master of the second, third, fourth, fifth, seventeenth chance. You know, my heart's big. God knows I've I've I've made plenty of mistakes, right? In my life, and I've I've often uh you know wanted to to have someone come alongside and and give me that opportunity that uh you know I I I've tried to give others. I remember reading where I think it was Bill Gates said he would fire people quicker. I I love what Oprah said when when people show you their true colors the first time, believe them. You know, tigers aren't changing their stripes, leopards, generally speaking, aren't changing their spots. Um a red flag to me, when you see a consistent pattern of behavior, it's very difficult for you to be the Jesus in their life that changes who they are. Um, and again, I can coach technique. I I I can coach uh the ability to articulate and the ability to learn a presentation. I can't coach character. I can't coach trust. And so a red flag to me is empowering the wrong people, trusting the wrong people, expecting someone to do differently because they're with you than they've ever done at any other organization or entity that they're at. Uh, one of the things that you and I have talked about, and I I love it's part of your philosophy, that you want to see previous success in an individual before you bring them close within your organization. Not that you won't hire them, but to bring them close. You you you if you sucked everywhere, you ain't just gonna come here and all of a sudden be a badass son bitch. It don't work like that, okay? Like you, you, you, you all hat and no cattle, boy. All right. You need to be able to have a little bit of hustle uh behind this muscle that you claim you've got. And again, it's a red flag trying to make people into something that they're not, wanting it more for them than they want it for themselves. Um I wasn't big into balance as far as red flags. I mean, I just I went too hard. Uh, I do think balance is bullshit to an extent, but not at the expense of your family. And and I I I lost my family building my NESB family. And had I had I had an opportunity to do it over, I I would do it different. I'm doing it a little different in this season of my life. But you you you've got to make sure that whom you're doing it for doesn't get lost in the hustle and in the fight of getting it done.

SPEAKER_01 19:03

Well, dude, this might lead us into the next question that I have off you know on my head. Uh you were talking about things that you would probably do different. So if you could go back to yourself, say 10 or 15 years ago, what would you have done different? It might be the same answer you just gave, but what would Well I didn't know that question was coming.

SPEAKER_00 19:21

Um man, you know, um I I I I really mean it when I tell you there's not a lot that um I I would have done different outside of putting my my my my maternal family uh making them more of a priority than I did my business family. And I I've always struggled with um uh compartmentalizing and and uh just just finding a way to scale back to it's either all in or it's not in. Um and I really enjoyed uh working with the guys and and helping them achieve financial dreams. At the same time, I probably could have done a better job uh at some things uh being being a husband and a father. And those are things that while uh it's not too late, um, those are lessons learned. And um that's that's something I I would have done differently. I I would also tell you um, you know, when when you're choosing a family, when you're choosing a home, when you're finding out where it is you want to plant your flag and to build, um you know, I I I researched and found a uh a historically uh famous family in the Milner group. When you talk about Chip Milner and Chad Milner and this Milner legacy, it is extensive. And it was something that, again, I'm flipping this question on you. Uh, what would I do differently? The one thing I wouldn't do differently is find a partner, someone that that can come alongside me and be great at what I'm weak at and help make up for the losses that um inevitably would have been there had Chad not been in my corner. And so um choosing the right people, but understanding and and keeping in in your mind why it is you're doing it. I mean, we we say we work so damn hard for a family, but if we're not there for the family we're working for. Yeah, what's it matter?

SPEAKER_01 21:20

Yeah, no, and that's so that's good for people like me or people in their first three to five years because you push so hard to be successful. And that's what you want more than anything, but you have to remember why you came here. That's right. You know, for me it was time. And and I said that, and then I came here and I started putting more time in my business than I did in the car business. But it I was building something for myself. I wasn't building for another fan. You're making three or four times. That's true. So I deserve to put it in three or four more times. Uh yeah, I guess. It's not for reference either. Yeah, it's not for refuge. Well, um, last question here, and I I've asked Jordan this, I've asked a few other people this, man. What what do you really feel uh sets NASB apart?

SPEAKER_00 22:00

I mean it's such a such a can. It sounds uh cliche answer, but it really is the people do. And and you know, from the Brian Adams, the owner of integrity CEO to uh competitors of ours, when they meet our people, like we do a hell of a job vetting and finding super top talent. And I would stack our frontline, our partners, against any damn body, any day of the freaking week. You want your ass whipped, say when and where. And these guys and gals will show up from the Ashley Calees to the Blythe Wards to uh the Dusty Todd's to the Alston Vanderfurt's to the Garrett Cheryl's and Garrett Holyfields. Uh the list goes on and on from Evan Proge. I hate naming names. Jordan Smith knows who he is. We have done a phenomenal job at hiring not just quality men and women, but they possess that same drive. None of us came from notoriety. It was obscurity. For some of us, poverty. And we fought together. There's been a unity in what we do. And uh we continue to soar, we continue to grow, we continue to thrive through that vision, through that just just unified effort that that no one is left behind. And there's such a there's such a reaching across the aisle, people you don't even make money on, right? That that you're willing to help and serve and and assist. I've never seen that, dude. I would go to sales conferences where there were fist fights. I I would go to meetings and everybody hated each other. They talk shit about each other. Dude, that's not the way we roll. It's just not. And people that come in have they're like, wow, I've never seen anything like this. It it really is um, it's a special group. And I'm I'm damn proud to be a part of it and and to just be a be a little uh piece of this uh this pie. It's meant the world to me. And uh you have too, dude. Just from your experience, you you've seen uh great organizations. What separates NESB to you?

SPEAKER_01 24:01

So uh when I came in, I asked Dusty this question and he gave me the answer leads and leadership, right? Having places to go, people to see, as opposed to just going out there and and prospecting. That was huge for me. Uh if I if I had somebody that knew that they wanted what I had, that makes it a lot easier. And then the leadership, you know, um, and I think each person here, once you hit partner, you've developed some level of leadership. Uh and that to me has been the most important thing. Being able to lean on Dusty, being able to call Jordan, you know, now being able to have this time with you, man, it it means a lot from somebody that comes from from nothing. You know, you stay in this mansion and and and get to spend some time here with you and your family. It just means a lot, you know. So I appreciate you taking the time last couple days and spending with me and and um look forward to a bright future with you, brother.

SPEAKER_00 24:55

Life is so freaking short. It's gone. I mean, I I think back, I'm 50, bro. I was 30 yesterday, it seems like. What are we doing with our time? We're all, if we're in sales, we're exchanging time for money. Why not have the best vehicle, the best people, the best platform, the best products to be able to change lives and in so doing, change your own life. That's what NESP has done for us. Maybe that's what it could do for you.