Episode 8: Anxiety Explained: Why You Feel Out of Control (and How to Take It Back)

Anxiety is one of the most common—and most misunderstood—experiences women face.

From racing thoughts and constant worry… to full-blown panic attacks that feel physical and overwhelming, anxiety can show up in ways that leave you feeling out of control and unsure of what’s happening in your own body.

In this episode of A Journey to Whole Woman Health, Dr. Mary Kathryn Nader breaks down anxiety in a way that is both clinically grounded and deeply relatable.

Together, we explore:
 • What anxiety actually is (and how it’s different from depression)
 • Why anxiety is often rooted in a lack of control and future-focused thinking
 • What’s happening in your brain during a panic attack
 • The anxiety cycle—and why avoidance actually makes it worse
 • How your thoughts (not just your circumstances) drive anxiety
 • Practical tools to interrupt anxious spirals in real time
 • The connection between anxiety, hormones, pregnancy, and life transitions
 • When to consider therapy, lifestyle changes, and medication

One of the most powerful takeaways?
 👉 It’s not the trigger—it’s what we tell ourselves about the trigger.

This conversation will help you better understand your mind, your body, and how to move from panic to peace.

If you’ve ever felt overwhelmed, stuck in your thoughts, or like your mind won’t slow down—this episode is for you.

Resources & Takeaways:
• Identify your “thoughts about the trigger”
• Practice reframing (from panic → pause)
• Prioritize sleep, nutrition, and movement
• Limit inputs that increase anxiety (social media, news)
• Seek support—you don’t have to do this alone

Connect with us:
Follow along for more education, encouragement, and real conversations about women’s health.

🎧 Listen on Apple + Spotify
 📺 Watch on YouTube

Support the Podcast:
If this episode encouraged you:
• Share it with a friend
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• Subscribe so you don’t miss what’s next

Disclaimer:
This podcast is for educational purposes only and is not a substitute for individualized medical or mental health care.

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:00

Welcome to A Journey to Whole Woman Health, the podcast where science, mental health, and faith come together to educate, empower, and encourage women in every season of life. We're your hosts, Dr. Jamie Irwin, board-certified OBGYN, and Dr. Mary Catherine Nader, licensed professional counselor with a PhD in counseling. Let's begin the journey. Welcome back to the podcast. We are here with Dr. Mary Catherine Nader, and we are going to talk all about anxiety today. You might be experiencing it right now. You might have experienced it in the past. I think all of us have in some way, some fashion form. It's prevalent. Maybe it's worse now. Maybe it's just worse because I'm in midlife. But I don't think it's unique to just one specific season, is it? No. No.

SPEAKER_00 0:55

It can happen at, you know, any age. Um it can be situational, it can, genetics can play a factor in it. Um, whatever's going on environmentally in your life. Those are all factors that can contribute to anxiety. And often it's um people don't recognize it until maybe they have a panic attack or they have like that racing heart that we've talked about before. A lot of patients describe uh the feeling as if an elephant is sitting on their chest, just not able to get a breath.

SPEAKER_01 1:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:32

Um, those are just some of the symptoms that people can experience.

SPEAKER_01 1:37

Yeah. Goodness. All right. Well, let's dig into it. What exactly is anxiety and what makes it different from other kind of mental health issues that we may experience?

SPEAKER_00 1:49

So there's a lot of different ways to define anxiety. Um, but to simplify it, a lot of times I'll tell patients anxiety often relates to thinking about the future or even the present and not having a sense of control. Um, and then depression oftentimes is thinking about the past, you know. Neither one of them were really in the present. Okay. One of them were really anxiety, often is future focused, not always, but often. And then depression is often thinking about what's happened in the past.

SPEAKER_01 2:23

I never thought about it that way, but that makes a lot of sense. The past, maybe regret, just sadness over what was or what has been lost. Yes. That really makes sense. And then anxiety, just worry and fear. I see a lot of the lack of control, not fear in pregnancy. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 2:44

Would you agree? Oh, for sure. And a lot of times women might feel for the first time out of control. Because things are happening in my body. Yeah. I can't control. I felt that way.

SPEAKER_01 2:58

I feel like I've been invaded.

SPEAKER_02 3:00

Because I had been.

SPEAKER_01 3:00

Yes. I mean, truly, medically speaking, you have a parasite. Right. You have a living organism that is feeding off of you whose survival is completely dependent on you. And you actually are not benefiting anything. So it truly is a parasite. I hate to say that. And I say it to patients and they kind of giggle and I'm like, yeah, but I'm not kidding. It really is.

SPEAKER_00 3:21

It's affecting your whole life. It's affecting your sleep. It's affecting your your body. Yeah. It's affecting you mentally. It's like you have pregnancy brain. Yeah. Um go ahead. You don't have control. You don't have control.

SPEAKER_01 3:33

You cannot control your labor. You cannot control if your baby's gonna be head down or butt down. You can't control, you really can't control much of anything when it comes to pregnancy. Would you agree? I would. And now that our listeners are feeling so anxious.

SPEAKER_00 3:51

They were before, but think about all the things you can worry about. Shall we make a list? The same thing in uh Terry Minipax.

SPEAKER_01 3:58

Oh gosh.

SPEAKER_00 3:59

You know, your body's changing again. Yeah. Experiencing these symptoms. Um, and then it can happen just with different life stages. Um, it's just such a common, common experience for everyone, uh, but especially for women. So yeah, so I'm glad that we can talk about it a little bit today. Yeah. Um, because it's probably one of the top things that I see in my practice or that at least initially brings people in. Okay. A lot of times there's something going on underneath that's contributing to that anxiety, um, whether it is, you know, hormones, whether it is maybe some PTSD, whether it is um some sort of a experience or a situation. But a lot of times the discomfort of anxiety uh will often make people actually reach out and schedule an appointment. I'll often ask, okay, so what is it that made you decide now I'm going to do something? And often they will point to a panic attack, or somehow they're experiencing a change that they really can't figure out on their own. So explain a panic attack. Uh-huh. So for a panic attack, a lot of women um just feel like they can't catch their breath. That's often what people describe for me is that they just feel like they can't catch their breath. They have this feeling of um a heaviness on their chest. A lot of times it's the sense of like the walls are closing in. Um and a lot of times there's underlying factors there that we can trace it back to some previous experience, and they don't often connect those, but that's a reason to go to a therapist and and help work through those things. Cause often it's what's happening is that amygdala in the back of our brain is getting triggered with that fight, flight, freeze, spawn, um, and sending us into overdrive. I I always like to tell patients too, you know, our brain's job is to get us back in bed safely every night. Like that's that's our brain's job. It's constantly looking for what could be a danger.

SPEAKER_02 5:57

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 5:58

So when we're experiencing anxiety, it's like your brain is picking up more or paying more attention to these things that could cause me harm and really focusing in on them. So a lot of times after giving birth, you know, when our hormones are crazy and we're breastfeeding and our body's constantly reminding us you're keeping another person alive, that anxiety can be heightened because not only is my brain focused on getting myself in bed safely, but now also another child, another person. Um, so it can be a lot. So yeah, so a panic attack, um, a lot of times in that moment, um, it can be it can be scary for people. And then what happens is, um, well, the cycle of anxiety, let me just draw it out for you.

SPEAKER_01 6:44

Yes, please. Well, you mentioned the amygdala. Yeah. That's a very primitive old part of our brain developmentally. And these these potential triggers and cues, our brain can't differentiate between, right? Like, so say, you know, the ding, the notification on my cell phone that I got an email potentially could trigger me the same way that my primitive brain would interpret a saber-toothed tiger coming after me in my cave.

SPEAKER_00 7:15

Exactly. Right? Exactly. So it's like before our amygdala would tell us to release adrenaline into our stomach to go run, get away. You know. But now we're sitting at our desk, and the trigger was this random email that popped up and was trustful for us. So our stomach just feels all that of adrenaline, but nothing to do with it. And we're just sitting there. And then we just we start because really what our body wants to do is run, do something. Yeah. Um, but we're not. We're sitting or we're on a plane, or we're, you know, somewhere like that. So then what can happen is it can, I've drawn this little cycle of anxiety. We experience this trigger, we feel anxious. And so, what do we do when we feel anxious often? We avoid. We avoid the thing that we're feeling anxious about. Because I don't want to feel that way. Because you don't want to feel it. And and that's again your brain saying, hey, don't go over there. We don't feel good when we do that. Danger zone. Danger zone. Okay. Okay. So what that avoidance does is it's like feeding that anxiety chocolate cake. It's like, here you go, you won. Good job. You feel better. You feel better. So what happens the next time you experience that same trigger is it's bigger.

SPEAKER_02 8:32

Oh no.

SPEAKER_00 8:33

Right? So now not only am I anxious about flying, oh man, I'm anxious just about going to the airport.

SPEAKER_02 8:39

Oh gosh.

SPEAKER_00 8:40

You know? So then I feel that anxiety again, just going to the airport. And then maybe I avoid that. I'm not gonna go pick that person up from the airport. You know, or I'm not gonna drive it's driving, and now I'm, you know. So then we feel that relief again. Because again, we gave it chocolate cake by avoiding dopamine hit, dopamine hit, and then it so it just keeps growing. So this is why therapy is important. It can help cut this cycle off and help us start to notice like what is it that we're doing and what we're trying to avoid. Um, so back to the panic attacks, often that becomes a trigger in itself. So, first you had this panic attack because you were in this situation. Now you're afraid of having another panic attack. So that becomes another thing that you're trying to avoid and you're feeling anxious about. Um so oftentimes that's that's why it brings somebody to finally come in and get some help. And of course, um, there are coping skills we can do in therapy as well as medications. Can I draw another thing that's of course okay?

SPEAKER_01 9:48

Draw away. I love it. I'm a visual learner, so I love all the images. And if you are just listening, we are going to be having these on YouTube, so you should definitely check out our YouTube channel. We're gonna say that. We're we're figuring that out. It'll be happening by the time you're listening to this.

SPEAKER_00 10:03

You're already amazed by our YouTube channel by the time you're seeing this. So, yeah, so let me describe this because for listeners, um, yeah. So again, back to the trigger. Hopefully, this is actually working on here. But we start with a trigger, and oftentimes people think it's the trigger that gives us anxiety. Okay. Okay. But actually, it's not. It's what we tell ourselves about that trigger. Oh. It's the thought that we have. So it's not the trigger itself, it's what am I telling myself about that trigger.

SPEAKER_01 10:34

Okay, so like the email notification, I'm telling myself it's bad news. Right. Or I'm telling myself, my boss is piling on another task or whatever. Okay.

SPEAKER_00 10:45

Maybe a lying thought is, and it's not gonna be okay. It's bad. And in life, it's gonna be hard. Or um, you know, or maybe it's like so the example I use a lot of times for my clients is sitting in traffic when there's you can't go anywhere, you're stuck and you're running late, right? So that could be the trigger. So my thought could be, oh my gosh, I'm gonna be even more late. They're gonna think that I'm, you know, just not very responsible, and um, this is ruining my day, and you know, they're gonna fire. Yes. Yeah, I'm gonna lose my job, whatever. So from that thought, then we have an emotion. So for in that example, it could be anxiety, it could be stress, worry, frustration. And then from that emotion, we have an action, something that we do. So maybe we get like you know, maybe we like hit our steering wheel or honk, like, go at the car in front of us, or just get worked up.

SPEAKER_02 11:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 11:45

And then finally we have a result. I like to say result instead of consequence because it can be positive or negative. Okay. So the result is like I get there and I'm just coming in, just like stressed, bringing it all with me. So an example of just how you can change by the thought would be that same trigger of sitting in traffic, running late in the morning, but maybe instead my thought is I've been rushing around all day. I haven't taken a moment just to take a breath. This is like a forced pause in my day. So instead of seeing that traffic as ruining my day, I see it as this is a forced pause. I'm just gonna take I there's nothing I can do about it. Same thought, but I'm seeing it in as a surrender. There's nothing I can do. I'm just gonna take this moment to breathe. So my emotion in that case would be relaxed. Some gratitude. Gratitude, yeah. For the pause. Yeah, more peaceful. So I might like take that time to roll down the window as my action. Maybe I'll turn up the music, maybe I'll listen to a really great podcast, you know.

SPEAKER_01 12:58

Share this now with your friends, send it to that girlfriend, sister, mother. She needs to hear. She needs to hear.

SPEAKER_00 13:05

And then um, my result is I get there at the same time, but I walk in calm, relaxed. Sorry I'm late. You know, let's get started. You're gonna get there when you get there. Right, exactly. So me stressing about it in the middle isn't gonna help. I don't know, does that make sense? Oh my gosh, yeah, so good. So that's kind of one of the first little um tips or tools that I give to clients, so y'all are getting it for free. Um, but I just think it's a helpful thing to start recognize what recognizing what is it we're actually telling ourselves. Because that's often, and uh, some of the common ones that I see are this needs to be perfect. Oh gosh, right? Which we've talked about perfection before, or I can't handle this. This is too much. This is too much. Um, I'm responsible for all of this or whatever it might be. So a lot of times those underlying thoughts are we start here, and then if that's connected to, you know, maybe some past trauma or other experiences, we can dig in deeper um in future sessions or even with EMDR um with my clients, because sometimes it's connected to some sort of another previous experience. Um so good.

SPEAKER_01 14:21

So if if left untreated, if we continue to spiral and not intervene with with the thoughts that we're telling ourselves, what can be the outcome?

SPEAKER_00 14:35

I mean, you can I mean I've had clients who aren't leaving their homes. They're so anxious about different things, you know, whether it's social anxiety, being around people, whether it's driving, a lot of clients who are afraid of driving, often they can be traced to a car accident or a car wreck um or other things. And like that cycle I showed where it just continues to grow. Sometimes they have a difficult time even tracing it to a root issue. So that's one of the first things we do in our sessions is start to really dig down what is this connected to that we can attack. And sometimes there's not. Sometimes it's just, you know, anxiety and we need medication. And and really research shows that the two together, medication and therapy, is the best treatment. I often explain to people, it's like working out and eating right, you know, you'll get some benefits from doing just one, but the two together really make the biggest difference. They both taking that medication for your brain to level out allows you to do the exercises that we talk about in therapy and to really help it help practice those coping skills, and vice versa. Those coping skills will help maintain um long term with identifying those thoughts and with uh processing that anxiety.

SPEAKER_01 16:01

That's so good. And I love that analogy about the eating and the working out together, you're just gonna get better results. So, same is true for our mental health. Um, I know for some of my patients struggling with anxiety, I'll recommend some non-prescriptive options. Yes. Um, L-theanine is one example. Yes. And magnesium as well. If if I have patients wanting to perhaps go a non-prescriptive route and try a more natural route, what are your thoughts there?

SPEAKER_00 16:34

I think that's great. I mean, I always tell people whatever and off lifestyle things, right? Yes, yes. Sleep is a huge factor. Yes. Making sure I often ask how much sleep they're getting. Nutrition is a huge factor. What are you eating? Are you drinking a lot of caffeine? That can definitely contribute. Um, any sort of like exercise to just help your body process these, um, like the adrenaline and the different um hormones that we have, those are huge. We've talked about um the perimenopause and just the connection there.

SPEAKER_01 17:08

So making sure to look at that can definitely be contributing back to hormones, thyroid dysfunction can cause some anxiety. So that's an important um test to get checked if you're dealing with anxiety. And then probably avoiding some of those triggers, yeah, like doom scrolling on your phone, social media, watching the news. How does that impact our anxiety?

SPEAKER_00 17:32

For sure. I think there's so many people now that there's social media, they don't even recognize the pressure that they are absorbing through social media. So I do often ask how many hours a day, and I've had especially new moms that are just home with a baby, tell me they're spending eight to ten hours. I mean, that's just so much. And that we've talked about how it's just not real what we're seeing on social media. So to take those expectations and then to put them on ourselves, we've talked about perfectionism before, but I think that's a whole new thing for moms when we have social media. Um, it was not really there yet when we had our kids. Thank goodness. And yeah, and so I I hear these moms, and as I'm listening to them, what they're saying is that they think they need to be a perfect mom.

SPEAKER_02 18:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 18:23

And when I ask them what does that mean, they can't really tell me because the reality is it doesn't exist.

SPEAKER_02 18:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 18:31

There is no such thing as a perfect mom. Even what I think of as perfect is different than what you think of as perfect. I mean, the reality is healthy mom, healthy baby, you know, taken care of, babies taken care of. Yeah. And that's gonna look different for everybody. So it's it's anxiety to think I should be a perfect mom when you can't even define it or describe it. It's like you're chasing a ghost. So of course you're gonna feel like just because you can't ever achieve it. It's impossible.

SPEAKER_01 19:01

Talk us through. I'd like to just talk through this model you have on your whiteboard right now. So say that trigger being something on social media. You're a new mom, and that social media, that image, that perfect nursery where all everything's organized and the color palette is just beautiful. Talk us through that scenario. If that's the trigger, what could happen next?

SPEAKER_00 19:24

So their thought could be, um, I'm failing. Like, as far as I the first thought might be like, this my nursery doesn't look like that, or my nursery should look like that. We should ourselves a lot. Tell people stop shooting yourself. That's right. Not good, not helpful. So that could be the thought is really underlying that is I'm failing. I'm failing a few. I'm not enough. I'm not good enough. But all or nothing, either I'm a perfect mom, again, doesn't exist, or I'm failing. Um, the emotion is just absolute overwhelm, oftentimes, or sense of failure, shame, shame. And then um the action they take is just to keep doom scrolling or even spiraling for themselves of what they're doing wrong. Um and the result is just to feel very alone, um, feeling overwhelmed, not good enough. Um, and then it just kind of continues because they keep going. So a lot of times the thought I encourage people to have is like, is I'm doing my best. Yeah. Right.

SPEAKER_02 20:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 20:25

Um, or that's just a picture, because literally that's what it is. It's a picture. Yeah. They could have pushed all the other crap out of the way and taken that one picture, which is often what's happening. Yeah. Um, you know, they the emotion then is just like, hey, like, I'm doing my best here. Um, so that emotion can be more a sense of confidence. Um, I like to even say emotion of curiosity, like changing that thought to, I wonder if, I wonder what I can do with this. Um, instead of being judgmental. Um, and so just having an emotion of curiosity there. So then the action can be like, okay, I'm gonna put my phone down and I'm gonna go do something that's tangible, you know, that that will make me feel more confident as a mom interacting.

SPEAKER_01 21:17

So anyway, I love that. That's super helpful. It really is. It just puts it into context too. Where is this anxiety starting from and how do we intervene and really cut it off before it escalates?

SPEAKER_00 21:30

Yeah, yeah. And there are definite things we can do. I hate for women to be suffering with it. So definitely, if you are, you know, reach out to your provider, talk to them. Um, you don't, you're not alone in it.

SPEAKER_01 21:42

Yeah, we're definitely here to help. So thanks for sharing your expertise. Much needed. We need to talk more about it. I'm sure there will be much more to come in the future on anxiety, but also all things mental health. That's what we're here for. Whole body health, whole woman health. Thanks for joining us. This episode, we'd love to highlight our friends at the Fort Worth Zoo. The Beast Sho is coming up, and it's the 18th annual Beast Show supporting and fundraising all the efforts at the Fort Worth Zoo.

SPEAKER_00 22:14

Thank you for joining us on a journey to whole woman health. If this episode encouraged you, share it with a friend, leave a review, or subscribe so you don't miss future conversations. Remember, your questions matter, your health matters, and wholeness is a journey. Until next time.

SPEAKER_01 22:33

Now for the legal language. This podcast is for educational and informational purposes only and is not intended as medical, mental health, or professional advice. The information shared on a journey to whole woman health is not a substitute for individualized care, diagnosis, or treatment from your own physician, mental health provider, or qualified healthcare professional. Always seek the advice of your personal health care provider regarding any medical or mental health concerns. Never disregard a delay seeking professional care because of something you heard in this podcast.