Creating a Space People Actually Want to Show Up To ft. Jackie Warmington

Jackie Warmington didn't take a traditional path to becoming COO of Den 1880 — she found the role through a chance conversation after a failed job interview. In this episode, we sit down with Jackie to talk about building community the right way, why follower count is a vanity metric, and what it actually means to create a space where people want to show up.

We get into the organic networking culture at Den 1880, the new gym and wellness facility, content strategy for local businesses, knowing when to say no to clients, and why going viral might actually work against you.

If you're a business owner trying to build something real — this one's for you.

A podcast about what really goes on behind the scenes of building brands, businesses, and personal platforms. 

We talk marketing, content, branding, community, and the uncomfortable middle between idea and execution.
Built for founders, creators, and business owners who want honest conversations, not recycled advice.


Hosted by Matt and Olivia. Audio-only for now. New episodes regularly.

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Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:00

Welcome back, everybody. We are here for episode seven. And today we have Jackie from Den 1880 on with us. Hi, Jackie. Hi.

SPEAKER_04 0:13

Thank you for having me. Of course.

SPEAKER_00 0:15

We always thought it'd be cool to have you on. Oh, thanks for having me. Especially just being able to use the space. So I definitely want to talk about that, but also get your story too.

SPEAKER_04 0:24

Sure.

SPEAKER_00 0:24

So maybe just start with who you are.

SPEAKER_04 0:26

Yeah, my name is Jackie Warmington. I am the COO here at Den 1880. For those of you who don't know what Den 1880 is, we are a co-working private office event space and now podcast studio and newly opened gym and wellness facility. Very exciting. We opened soft lunch last Friday and we're opening April 1st.

SPEAKER_00 0:44

I literally just got the newsletter inviting me to the grand opening party. So that's exciting.

SPEAKER_04 0:49

Yes. I didn't get that email. It's fine.

SPEAKER_02 0:53

I'll be there.

SPEAKER_04 0:54

Yes, I've been here since the beginning, construction days. But prior to that, I have a long history of working in hospitality in the restaurant industry in university. I was a bartender and a waitress for years in like nightclubs. And then I started working in more fine dining atmospheres. Then I was a restaurant manager. I always had different odd jobs through school. And then I started my own business. So I, prior to this job, I owned a tattoo shop in Hamilton. It was called John Street Tattoo. I had that for nearly seven years, and then I sold it to my brother who owns it now. It's called Hotshot Tattoo. Check it out. And then I took some time off. And I guess my story is interesting about how I got this role. I think as you own a small business, it becomes more and more challenging if you ever think about the reality of air quote real job, like what that would look like. I had taken about a year off from work and eventually was kind of like, all right, it's time. I was exploring the idea of do I want to start a new business? What might that look like? I had made a few different business plans, but nothing was really sticking. And at the time I was, to be frank, tired of being the boss. It's a lot of stress. It was post-COVID. That was stressful. Like really boring. Yeah. You really worry about if this doesn't work out, it's on me when you have staff, which is a lot of pressure. And I was just, maybe I want to shift gears. But the reality is I didn't really have an actual resume. It had been almost a decade of being self-employed. What does that look like? You're like, I own a tattoo shop. And the people are like, okay. And like people do everything. Like I you do the marketing, you're doing the sales, you're building the website, you're doing the accounting. There's so many hats that you wear. But you can't really explain that to someone in a way that makes sense. The actual reality of the story, I think, is kismet. I had applied for a job. It was like a remote tech job, and I had an interview, and it went like so bad. But they asked, oh my God, it was so embarrassing. But thank goodness I didn't tell anyone. I was just like, I didn't tell anybody. And so they let me know I did not, I definitely did not get this job. And so I remember so specifically of the Tuesday, and I was going to spin 5:30 class, and Courtney was at the desk, and she usually wasn't. She was like filling it for someone that night. And so I walk in, and this was the day that I found out that I didn't clearly get this job. And she's like, How's it going? What's going on? Are you like looking for work? And even though I truly never told anyone I had this interview, for whatever reason, I just spilled the tea. I just go, honestly, not good. It's really going bad. I had this interview and I didn't get it. It was really bad. I don't know what I'm gonna do. I said, I was self-employed for so long. Like, how do I explain that I'm like Jackie of all trades? Like and I don't know if I I can't imagine working in like a boring office setting. Like it's just not me. And and Courtney was actually working with the owner here to build out like the iteration of the brand in its very early stages. She's wait, because it was like construction, and they were talking about, okay, we're gonna have to have somebody here to like be at the time they were calling it like community manager. And she's I know what you have to do. And so she came to Andrew and was like, I found the perfect person. And he was like, Don't you think we should like interview people? No, I'm telling you, no. Yeah. And when I think about like how it's Kismet, it's always think about, and I say to you, especially young people, it's like never burn your bridges, you know, like always be kind, always make sure that you're putting yourself out there. You never know who you might say that you had a terrible interview and they're gonna we literally talked about that just before we came in.

SPEAKER_02 4:11

Yeah, like our interactions with people, like you have to just always have some respect. A hundred percent no matter what. Like you never know who you're gonna run into. Yeah, yes, exactly.

SPEAKER_00 4:20

As a business owner, you never want to burn those bridges because you never know when those might be brought back up.

SPEAKER_04 4:27

A hundred percent. And there's times when you sometimes just want to burn it all down. Go to hell. But you just have to make amends or figure it out because truly you never know, and you might be calling them to yeah. Then yeah, I started here and it was about a year or so of construction, the build, building out all of the back end, the website, the apps, the furniture, everything. But yeah, we're going on to I'll be like three years here now. We've been open for just over two years. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 4:54

That's that's so cool.

SPEAKER_00 4:55

Such a cool story. Yeah. That's really cool. A little backstory for me too. I was in high school, I think, and I used to do landscaping for my uncle around this building when I was communitech, I believe. Yeah. And then never completely had knew what it was after that. And I remember doing a shoot here for Live, and it was like Danny Canino's my first time ever coming into the space.

SPEAKER_02 5:20

Was it ever? Yeah, it was the Scotia Bank event for the women's event, and I was teaching, and Matt was my photographer at the time. Here we are. Here we are. Yeah, he that was the first time we ever came here, and he thought it was so cool.

SPEAKER_00 5:34

Yeah. Yeah, as a I definitely want to touch on this too. As a business owner, having a space like this is so nice to have. Being able to go somewhere, if especially if you're working from home, having a dedicated work workspace, access to the kitchen, the new gym and the wellness facility. There are so many things here that makes uh the life of a business owner so easy.

SPEAKER_04 5:58

Yeah, we're really trying to find that balance. Like most of our members here have the option to work from home, which is very compelling for a lot of people. We're trying to find reasons to get people out of their house. The argument can't necessarily be a desk. There are plenty of desks. You could go to the library, you could stay at home. We're adding that extra element, right? Not just the social element and the free coffee and the fruit and bagel day, the additional things that the community seeing people, networking, networking, now the gym event. Yeah, now we've got the gym. Yeah. Yeah. There's a lot, I think, that is added on and it's pretty compelling to people.

SPEAKER_00 6:33

It's that one-stop shop for a business owner to come here in the morning, get their workout in, feel good about themselves, and then hop straight into work, have meetings, and just spend all day here basically.

SPEAKER_02 6:44

Yeah, absolutely. And I feel like too, when you have so many different like types of business owners here, like with networking and stuff, it's just you have there's a different energy that surrounds the space and you're constantly chatting with new people and like learning new things. And I think Den really does that very well.

SPEAKER_04 7:03

I think there's something so invaluable in that as well, just like a natural networking. Yeah. Because you also never know who's gonna call on you. Someone maybe is building out their website, they need photos, or they need help with their branding, vice versa. Maybe you need a lawyer or you need help. Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 7:18

We said the same thing. We went to the St. Patty's Day event for the first time.

SPEAKER_04 7:24

I was in New Orleans with the episode.

SPEAKER_00 7:25

That was cool. But after that, we're like, we have to keep coming to these events because just like the networking possibilities and opportunities that you can create from these events, even if it's for an being there for an hour or two. Yeah, yeah. And it's organic too.

SPEAKER_04 7:39

Yeah, that's the one pretty strict rule that we have is it's not solicitation style networking. And we've hosted networking events even like that. And they're just not for me personally. I know that there's people get a lot of value out of those, but I just find a more of a natural setting. Networking happens a lot more organically rather than just exchanging business cards and seeing how it just doesn't feel as natural to me. Yeah. So I think having those natural settings, maybe it's yoga class or Pilates class, the networking events, or even just watching the Super Bowl, you can strike a conversation up with someone that you net maybe wouldn't otherwise.

SPEAKER_02 8:13

Yeah, you'd make the most unlikely connections with people, like even through the Pilates group that I work with. Like they're they all work in different spaces, but they're all coming together to do this one thing. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 8:23

And everything people don't necessarily have colleagues, and so some of them work independently, and some of them are totally remote. So their colleagues are virtual, but it really starts to feel like these are your colleagues. Yeah. Which is interesting.

SPEAKER_00 8:36

Even when Liv was building out Club 60, having some of the members who do her classes come up to her and be like, I can build your complete like website for you. This is so cool to learn know that you're building this. Yeah. Or even when the Olympics were on and Team Canner was playing, like this common area was filled the entire morning.

SPEAKER_04 8:54

That was cool. Yeah. I think there were tears shed. Yeah. There was.

SPEAKER_00 8:58

I remember watching the quarterfinal here, and I my heart was racing so fast. So good.

SPEAKER_04 9:04

Monday we'll win something. Yeah. Literally, we're waiting.

SPEAKER_00 9:08

I definitely want to talk more about like the content and the marketing behind what goes into getting new members here, where it started and how you were evolving through kind of everything we're doing.

SPEAKER_04 9:20

Yeah. I think I've always taken a pretty organic approach to marketing, especially when it comes to social media. I'm no expert, that's for sure. But I do I have noticed a few things and that I tried to do. And I think there's we were talking about there's iterations of social media and marketing over to how that works. The approach I think that we take at Den is really one of trying to humanize the space. Some feedback that we got early days was that because the space is so beautiful and cool, it can be intimidating. And I think sometimes you're unsure and you don't want to go and be the new person in a new space. So I think by adding that human element, it helps to show that there are a lot of different backgrounds and people here and it's friendly, laid back, approachable. I think that really helps. And I think also finding a balance between obviously it's a business, you want to promote offerings that you might have. But you don't want it to be constant ad. Yeah, yeah, we're selling this, we're selling this. We're all scrolling past that. So I think peppering that in here and there, but then really just showing the human element and always thinking, is this something that would engage me? Would this stop me if I were scrolling by? I think you both do that really well. Really well. Thank you.

SPEAKER_00 10:36

Thank you.

SPEAKER_04 10:37

You should be proud. Thanks.

SPEAKER_00 10:39

I I think I've always taken that approach, especially with my business. I'd in the beginning, when you're like really needing work, I think it makes sense. But I think when you're established, I think, like you said, no one wants to just see constant ads out there trying to promote your business. Or like I think the one thing that attracted me to Den was like the environment and the connection that everyone has here. And like you said, it it can be very intimidating walking into a space this big with so many different business owners who are one of the biggest businesses to new startups.

SPEAKER_02 11:13

Yeah, there's a wide r range and variety of people here.

SPEAKER_04 11:16

And I think another thing that I really focus on is not just the social media element, but like how does that translate when you actually walk through the doors? Like how human is it? How comfortable do we make you feel? A lot of places it's like very sterile, and you're like, I feel so uncomfortable. And that can be across any business. So really humanizing it, making people feel really welcome, learning their name, following up, checking in. Yeah. Um, that's just like a real hospitality element. So crossing those bridges on both ends, I think, is super important.

SPEAKER_02 11:45

Most co-working spaces do feel that way, like very like sterile and not inviting whatsoever. And this is just a whole different experience. It's on another level of working space.

SPEAKER_00 11:56

Even when the like the content we've created in the last month or so, especially at the events, it's like highlighting the people that show up and the people engaging with everyone there, but also highlighting the new offices available and having that human connection to it and like showing showcasing that lifestyle behind it.

SPEAKER_01 12:13

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 12:14

Even down to talking about highlighting actual members and getting their story behind why they use and how they incorporate Den 1880 into their lifestyle.

SPEAKER_04 12:21

I wish we were better about that to be honest. It's just there's only so many hours of the day, and we're such a small team, really. But as far as like the business element, it's a very bare bones too because yeah, it's like I have such big dreams. And I see other spaces like in New York and Toronto, even where they do that so well. Oh gosh, I wish I think that's probably the most engaging thing in social media at the time, or sorry, at the time, in the time right now. If I was to speak about 10 years ago, I would have said it was like a numbers game. Yeah. It was constant posting. I think it's probably like that on TikTok now. We don't have a TikTok again, it's just a capacity thing. Yeah. Whereas if it was on TikTok, I would say you have to just go totally organic, totally real. You cannot fake those things. It cannot be an ad. Nobody isn't gonna engage in that. No.

SPEAKER_00 13:12

Totally.

SPEAKER_02 13:13

Yeah, we always talk about like the difference between TikTok and Instagram. There's so much Instagram is like a portfolio for a business, whereas TikTok is more like trends and like that very like.

SPEAKER_00 13:25

It's very human connections. I tell this to everyone don't if you're just getting into marketing and social media and creating content, you can't overwhelm yourself with all of these platforms at once because it's so overwhelming. And so many people are telling you a thousand things to do. You have to focus on one for the start. And then once you master that, then start repurposing into the other forms of content. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 13:51

And I think another thing that's so important, especially when you're starting a business. I don't know if you guys have run into this at all, but when I first got into business, I found myself really comparing myself to others. Oh, constantly. And it was really hard. Like my biggest problem. Yeah. And it could eat you up. I guess I didn't even really dive into my whole history. I also used to do eyelash extensions and I loved it so much.

SPEAKER_02 14:13

You've lived all sorts of lives. I love this.

SPEAKER_04 14:16

It was like actually just old. I got tendinitis though in my hand and I had to stop. But with that specifically, because it was such a labor of love for me, like I really got tendinitis. I was doing it so much, traveled to learn from the best Russian teacher in Vegas. I really poured my whole heart and soul into it, and I poured my heart into the branding and the photography that I was doing and my website, and it was just me until I hired staff and everything. But for an example, I I started doing these like really close-up shots with my like Canon, like 5D 1.4 macro lens, right up close, and editing them so that around the hairline and it was perfectly black, and my lighting was super consistent. And it was nice, it was so good. And I started doing that, and then lo and behold, three months later, everyone else is doing that. And I get it because you draw inspiration from all around you. Like I it took a while, but eventually I was like, I just have to stop looking entirely because if you do that, one, it just makes you sick. And you obsess over it. You obsess over it. Yeah. And then also I find you're just not as organic even moving forward, and you're not maybe gonna create new ideas. And maybe if you do, maybe you're the one that grew up being.

SPEAKER_00 15:27

Yeah. Yes. I remember seeing this summer, but someone said comparison is a thief of joy. And even for the space I'm in, there are so many creators and photographers and videographers and filmmakers and cinematographers out there creating such cool stuff. And sometimes you look at your work and you're like, why am I not creating that? But you have to stay in your lane.

SPEAKER_04 15:48

And remember, maybe they've got 20, 30 years on you. Right, exactly. You don't know where they're coming from. They have a team of editors and why am I not making content in this scale that they are? You don't know what's going on behind the scenes. Right. So yeah, definitely.

SPEAKER_00 16:02

When you get to the point of, like you said, everyone was starting to copy what you were doing. To some, I think it's very annoying and frustrating. I think it used to be like that for me too, but I started to look at it as they're only doing that because they don't know how to be innovative. Oh, yeah. They don't know how to do things on their own.

SPEAKER_04 16:24

Imitation is the most sincere form of flattery. Yes.

SPEAKER_00 16:26

Exactly.

SPEAKER_02 16:27

And that tries to remind me of that all the time. Yeah. It's so easy to get in your head as any business owner or creative. It's and especially in businesses or industries that are so saturated, like everybody's so easy to mimic what other people are doing these days. So it's really finding what works for you. And it might be similar to someone else's and it might not be, but it's unique to you.

SPEAKER_00 16:50

I think having the mindset of documenting more than you're consuming. Absolutely. It's huge.

SPEAKER_04 16:55

Do you guys try to limit your screen time?

SPEAKER_00 16:58

I don't.

SPEAKER_02 16:58

I do. I have a timer on my phone. It's like everyone to it. Sometimes I ignore it. I ignore it, but like I have it so that I'm not on Instagram or something for more than 10 to 15 minutes. It shuts it down. Yeah. But you can ignore it, which is like a bad thing.

SPEAKER_00 17:16

I've tried fixing like my home screen and what my iPhone looks like. So I'm not like I'm hiding apps just so I don't see it, and that helps.

SPEAKER_04 17:25

I changed my whole phone to a grayscale.

SPEAKER_00 17:27

I was just gonna say that. I know that has that worked. Unreal.

SPEAKER_04 17:30

When I take it off, when I take it off, and I got Claire here to do it too, and she was working on actually the your photos and putting them together and like on a grayscale. On a grayscale. And then so she put it on the phone. She's like, these are Yeah. And then she saw it on Paige's phone. She's sweet. And then she remembered. I mean she had asked me how to take it off. And I'm like, I did it too. I was looking and I'm like, what's going on? And then but when you do take it off, it is so alarming. Yeah. Yeah. Oh my gosh. I know.

SPEAKER_00 17:55

I think I tried that for 15 minutes and I was like, I can't do this.

SPEAKER_04 17:58

I don't think as a photographer you can.

SPEAKER_00 18:00

No, that'd be very difficult to do for you.

SPEAKER_04 18:02

The idea really is that when you look at your phone, it's supposed to be one, less engaging. Yeah. Two, when you look away from your phone, the idea is that you see colors in the way that they really are. And it's supposed to be more vibrant because your phone is so vibrant. It's literally like we're watching like coconut or something. Yeah. It's just so bright in your face, and it's they're not natural at all. Yeah. So it dulls your real life.

SPEAKER_00 18:23

I think I actually watched TikTok on this a couple days ago of how people wake up, immediately start scrolling on their six by whatever iPhone. And then they go to work, stake on their phone, they look at a computer all day. Yeah. And then go home, then you watch the flat screen TV until 10 p.m. at night, and then they go on their phone, and then you go and you go to bed. And it's like, why am I so tired throughout the day? Well, it's because you're staring at a screen for what it's working on.

SPEAKER_02 18:53

I saw like a big statistic the other day about how we spend like 80% of our like life, like our entire lifespan on a screen or like on our phone. And it's just looking at that, you're like, whoa, I'm wasting my time.

SPEAKER_00 19:08

Literally. I just got I started using Claude.

SPEAKER_04 19:12

Do you like it?

unknown 19:13

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 19:13

Game Changer. Really? Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 19:16

You're like the third person who's told me. Really? Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 19:18

Even that when it comes to script writing and planning and even like business development and just like getting stuff taken off my shoulders.

SPEAKER_04 19:25

Is it does it do you plug this into your email or is that a different one?

SPEAKER_00 19:29

You can connect anything to it.

SPEAKER_02 19:31

There's so many functions with it. Okay.

SPEAKER_00 19:32

I mean, last night, actually, I was trying this for the first time. You can connect it through your phone, tell it what you want it to do, and it'll connect to your laptop and do it for you. I built out an entire proposal just through my phone and it was doing it on Canva for me. And I could see it writing out everything.

SPEAKER_04 19:55

Okay. I'm gonna try today. Yeah. Because I was on chat earlier. I'm making some updates on our website, and what I have to do is basically I have to code it. And so I can have it do the base, but then I have to go edit it myself. It's not that intuitive, honestly.

SPEAKER_00 20:12

So far it's been completely changed my workflow.

SPEAKER_02 20:16

Yeah. It's just been like even like the like the answers it gives for things is just so much better.

SPEAKER_00 20:23

It sounds like how you want it to sound.

SPEAKER_02 20:25

And so you can update the memory of it too. Yeah. Like more human. Yeah. Like, this is what I actually sent. This for how I actually write. Yeah. I keep getting mad at chat because I'm like, you don't you sound like a robot. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 20:36

The reason I brought it up though is because I was looking into all the functions and it has a few widgets within Claude. And the one was it showed you every single week for your life. And for me, it was like 33% or 44% through my actual life cycle.

SPEAKER_04 20:53

Wow.

SPEAKER_00 20:53

And it was breaking that down into That's sad and scary. How many like times I've taken a trip around the sun or around the world. Did you ask it for that prompt? No. Oh, it it told me my birthday. And from there generated how many times I've likely slept, how many times I've taken steps.

SPEAKER_04 21:10

Did it just bring this up on its own though? Or are you? I don't like like why? It's like you've got this many summers left with your f parents likely. Yeah. This many Christmases. It tells me this, and I'm like, oh, I would rather just not know. Yeah. Yeah. It's How are you maximizing such output though? I find that you both have some serious content output.

SPEAKER_00 21:30

I feel like I'm always I'm I like to be consistent. I think when I get into work seasons, I'm super like dialed in knowing that I need to create content for the next couple of days.

SPEAKER_04 21:46

Because for me, I find that I can be like self critical in a way that it stops you, right? It's yeah, you're like, uh, should I post this? Like even on my personal social media, I'll go six months without posting a thing. Yeah. Just I do try to be. Present, but also because I'm like, eh.

SPEAKER_00 22:02

Yeah. I used to overthink everything I was posting. Yeah. Just because I was trying to maintain a level of my personality and my personal brand. Because I still had a personal account. And I think once I deleted that permanently, I think that at that point I just went all in on who I was trying to talk to. And I was still trying to cover all these three buckets of like my lifestyle, my personal what I do in my life, showcasing that, but also showing my work and trying to get more work and talking to the potential clients. But I think now I'm at a point where like I just don't care anymore. And the only people I want to talk to are the business owners.

SPEAKER_04 22:41

Right. And just let your work speak itself.

SPEAKER_00 22:44

And so that makes I think that makes the consistency a lot easier.

SPEAKER_04 22:48

And I think if you overthink it and present yourself in a way that's maybe, say, for example, more polished than you could potentially be in real life. Then even similar to people who maybe edit their photos too much, and then you meet them, you're like, this isn't what I signed up for.

SPEAKER_00 23:08

Yeah, I as a photographer and videographer, I think I have a level of how much content am I putting out that is high quality versus all of the low effort stuff. And when I thought I needed to put all of my best work out there, that's when I would never post. I was sort of perfectionist whenever it came to posting my work. And so when I got over that and started posting iPhone stuff and iPhone clips and just me talking in front of my phone, that gives me a lot of insight to what's working. And I think that also helps me. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 23:42

I think that's what it is, too. It's consistency and being organic.

SPEAKER_02 23:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 23:46

How do you approach it?

SPEAKER_02 23:48

I think it took me. Like I say this all the time, like it's been two years in the making for me for being like where I'm at today. And I still struggle with showing myself in a way that's a little bit more real. I think it's been that push from Matt for the last like couple months where he's been like, just show up and not think about it too much. And it's like you're not gonna be that relatable if it's just this perfect video. And that's I think that's who I am as a person. I try to like really like everything has to be perfect in for everything. And I'm just very much like type A in that way. And so that's been my biggest barrier when it comes to creating content because I'm always like trying to make it look a certain way. But I think now I've gotten to a flow of I know what's working for me. I know it doesn't need to be this like perfect crisp video where it's like the videos that I do of a day in my life get more attention than most things because it's just a real journey that I take people on. And I think with the new business with Club 60, right now I'm still struggling with that like polished, very perfect look, but I'm still trying to figure out what it means for the business side.

SPEAKER_04 25:05

Yeah. I think I've noticed an evolution in your social media even from when I knew you of just like being in the same spin classes. Yeah. So we didn't really know each other, but I think I've seen an evolution of your social media even just from like knowing you in the similar circles. Yeah. I think it's way better.

SPEAKER_02 25:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 25:21

Talk about how much you've grown in the last couple of months.

SPEAKER_02 25:24

Yeah, like within the last six months, I've gained 4,000 followers. Wow. That's amazing. Yeah. Where are you at now? I'm at 50, almost 5300. Dang. Yeah. That's so good. Yeah. And I think that's my like driver, is I'm there's a reason why the consistency has worked for so long. Like why it's working for because I've been consistent and I keep showing up and keep learning new things. Like I've seen my content, like the evolution of my content over the last year, even has changed so much. And I think it's just you're constantly having to grow and evolve with what works for you and what doesn't.

SPEAKER_00 26:00

Some of your best posts are of you showing up and talking to the camera.

SPEAKER_02 26:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 26:04

Or talking to your phone. I think it's because you don't do it. And so it's like a level of shock to people.

SPEAKER_04 26:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 26:09

And they just want more of it.

SPEAKER_02 26:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 26:11

Yeah, I think so. I can it's that creepy. I can remember, even specifically, both of you, those kind of posts where it's like in the car or just you can tell it's you didn't pause and start 10 times. I think too, even if you look at younger generations, even like young Gen Z and J Gen Alpha, they are showing up with pimple patches. Yeah. They want real. And I think that I grew up in a I didn't even mention this. I had a a blog for a number of years too that was like back in early blogging days. It was a thing. It was like it was in Hamilton and it was me and an another girl named Stephanie. And we did like kind of fashion lifestyle, but it was also about going to local businesses and featuring them. And this was like back in the day, but it was pretty big. Like we were in like magazines and it was like a mixture of polished and not. And my maybe gripe at the time was that I wanted it to be a little less polished and a little bit more real. I wouldn't say gripe, but just because that's who I am, I think you're exactly right. Like even back then, the engagement that we would get was significantly higher when we weren't taking a thousand shots. It was a couple, and we just went with it, didn't over-edit it. Because if you want to look at a magazine, you can. And people want to know who you really are. You can just do the polished stuff, but you want to also feel like it's approachable. Yeah. And they can relate to you.

SPEAKER_02 27:33

And yeah. And I think that was with big like important importance for starting my business too. It's you can start a business, but it's like, how do you connect with people, especially with an online platform? It's like people don't know who is behind it. And that was like start talking to people, reach out personally, talk on stories, start to tell different stories through different videos, show your face and let people hear your voice. Because that's what's going to drive people into you. It's that connection that they feel.

SPEAKER_04 28:06

Yeah. And people always want to feel too like they were the first to know the indie band. They're going to always remember and say, I saw them when there was 20 people in a basement club. Yeah. Same idea, right? They want to think I knew Tracy Anderson when it was, and she used to text me and say, Thanks for coming to class. Yeah. You know what I mean? They want to be like, Liv used to email me and bang the kind of thing. So it's like people want to know. And I think that's so true. If you engage back with people, even like those dopamine hits that people get just from a pie. It goes a long way.

SPEAKER_00 28:39

There's three things I want to say. There's when you're not over like if you're not happy with like how something comes across on content, it's knowing that post is probably going to be on someone's feed for a minimum, maximum six hours, and then it's gone. And it no one's going to remember it. So it's just throw it out there, see what happens, and fix it later. And then even for myself, I had to get over the feeling of talking on camera.

SPEAKER_04 29:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 29:09

Just because I was born with a speech impediment. And so showing up on camera and talking was always like what's the word?

SPEAKER_02 29:17

Just very vulnerable. Yeah. And like uncomfortable.

SPEAKER_04 29:20

Always scared you might be criticized. Someone's gonna see the real me. Yeah. Or gonna know I used to. Yes.

SPEAKER_00 29:27

Even like for this podcast, I told Liv, I never thought I'd be someone who could sit in front of a mic for an hour and just talk about marketing and content and everything. So if I tell everyone, if I can get in front of my phone and record a 10-minute video or 30-second video and post it, like I think anyone else can.

SPEAKER_04 29:46

Gosh, I need to just take this and learn from it.

SPEAKER_02 29:51

Yeah. It it it's it takes stepping into being uncomfortable and vulnerable to grow in anything.

SPEAKER_04 29:58

And I think you know that too, as like having businesses and and telling the girl that the interview is bad, or just taking a risk and starting the business that you've been thinking of. Like he's gonna do it for you. Nobody's gonna say they had a success when they didn't even try. You have to put yourself out there.

SPEAKER_00 30:16

Yeah, there's someone I follow on TikTok and Instagram. His username is Higher Up Wellness, and he has his entire persona is basically, he tells people to whenever you have a thought, it's taking out your phone and just recording it and posting it.

SPEAKER_04 30:30

Think about the most viral things where people are getting paid. There's there's what was the big one? Very demure. Yes. Or making the jingle like I can only think of the Vita Coco one right now. But do you know what was it? Oh, Dr. Pepper. Yes. That is such an earworm. My gosh. Like those kind of things. It's just like in your head for and you would think this is ridiculous. I was literally telling. I I don't even I was literally telling about I was talking about cameo. And I have a cameo from maybe you guys, this is niche, but Jasper the doll. Do you know it?

SPEAKER_02 31:01

No, I don't think so. No, this is niche.

SPEAKER_04 31:04

I love it. Uh it's just like a thing that I love, Ali, actually. It's literally a Barbie doll that looks like its face has been melted half, and it's it has this really ridiculous voice, but I'm paying for cameos from this doll. And who would have thought that posing this weird doll on it's totally viral, like millions of followers, and now you're so just yeah, trust your gut, go for it. Yeah. If you like it, it's very likely other people will.

SPEAKER_00 31:31

There's a challenge called the 30-day speaking challenge. And so for 30 days, you have to basically pick up your phone and talk for like two minutes straight, not cut it, not alter it in any way, and post it. And after the 30 days, it's basically just to make you a better communicator. But it's so hard because you just want to fix something so badly. Yeah. And so there's one person that we want to have on the podcast named Ariel, and he's been doing it, but he's been growing. Like his views are getting up to a million million views now.

SPEAKER_02 31:58

And he's yeah, he's local.

SPEAKER_00 32:00

So authentic. Like it's himself insane.

SPEAKER_02 32:02

Yeah, yeah. And that's I think that's what it comes down to. Like just speak your goddamn mind. Just do it. And that's I think that's the biggest hurdle to get over. Is once you do it, it just comes natural like when you start doing it more. Like you've seen it in the last week. I've been on camera more than I have ever been in the last two years.

SPEAKER_04 32:25

I think as you do it too, you can start to learn to edit out likes. Yes. It's a chunk you do get better at it.

SPEAKER_02 32:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 32:32

Yeah. Yeah. There's sometimes where I want to edit out all the ums and the filler words and spaces. But even I think I'm getting to a point where I like to let the content breathe too. I don't want it to be super cut and jolty and fast-paced. I want people to actually understand what I'm saying. And it's only, it makes sense. It's human. Everyone understands together when I'm saying that. Oh, absolutely.

SPEAKER_04 32:56

Yeah, absolutely. I think it just helps you to form a thought before you start saying words. I can I'm so guilty of that. Start speaking.

SPEAKER_02 33:04

I think it like that has taken that away from me, though. I think I've learned through like hospitality and stuff too. You need to speak very like direct and very professional. And that's always been a huge thing for me. I find that I'm pretty good now at not saying. I will take a pause and then start something. And that's something I think I've talked about with you.

SPEAKER_03 33:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 33:29

Because there's times where or he'll be like, I think, or I know, or like I like, and I'm like, just say it. Say it. Just say it. But it's yeah, it's getting used to just letting that conversation flow.

SPEAKER_04 33:41

How do you feel about becoming noticeable or having some notoriety even locally as your platforms grow?

SPEAKER_02 33:48

I think there's like a little bit of there's excitement around that, but I think there's also it comes with a little bit of pressure and anxiety.

SPEAKER_00 33:59

I think I want to be known for my work. And I want to be the expert in my area when it comes to strategy, business, content, social media, filmmaking, photographer. And so I don't want to look at it as a content creator. It's more so if you have a problem, like I'm the solution for it. That's my thinking when it comes to people knowing me.

SPEAKER_04 34:21

Where you see the business that you're creating together going more is it all-encompassing brand strategy, brand deliverable.

SPEAKER_00 34:30

I think so. Uh full in-house agent, like an agency that can offer anything all in one from strategy to implementation to launch to campaigns to content to consulting.

SPEAKER_02 34:44

I think our goal is to have like a team, like a well-oiled machine. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 34:51

The big one in the corner. Yeah, the big corner office.

SPEAKER_01 34:53

It's available.

SPEAKER_02 34:56

But yeah, and I think even in the last couple months, we've grown together in a significant amount. Even doing this, it's creating more space and opportunity with for us. And I think it's this I don't think this is the direction we thought we were going into, but it's just been a natural progression for us.

SPEAKER_00 35:16

I used to go to California a few times for like business mentorship through Creative Rise. It's the same Joey and Christie who helped me host my event here last July. And every time I went through their mastermind or inner circle, everyone there either had a partner in business. And so it was me and my buddy Noah, who just were the two single guys doing their own thing. And so it's nice having someone there who can actually help you in business too. And Liv does the same thing. She does the UGC creation, like content creating and everything. I never realized how many hats I'm wearing as a business owner. Yeah. And so being able to delegate a few things, even to like answering a couple emails, so much heavy lifting off my shoulders.

SPEAKER_02 35:56

Yeah. And I think we just complement each other very well. And I think we've understood each other from even working together before we became partners and now partners in business. Like you just understand how the other person works and it makes for a good team.

SPEAKER_00 36:13

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 36:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 36:15

I feel like that's pretty good.

SPEAKER_04 36:17

Can I keep asking? You guys listen to podcasts?

SPEAKER_00 36:19

Yeah. We so I listen to this podcast more than the brand.

SPEAKER_01 36:25

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 36:26

I listen to a lot of like business development podcasts. Yeah. Personal development podcasts, Alex Hermosy, Higher Up Wellness, more what's that one with Chris Williams?

SPEAKER_04 36:38

That's a good question.

SPEAKER_00 36:39

There's a few.

SPEAKER_04 36:41

Listeners can Google it. Yeah. Yeah. Let us know in the comments. We're getting engagement. Do you listen to podcasts? So many. Yeah. Yeah. But do you have any favorite ones? I wouldn't say in the realm of business. Yeah. I listen to podcasts more as like an escape. Yeah. I listen to a lot of political podcasts on both spectrums. Some just like entertainment ones. And then I love like long-form storytelling.

SPEAKER_02 37:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 37:05

There hasn't been a ton of new content, or it's possible that there is, and I just absorb it too quickly. But yeah, I do love, I would say podcasts are my favorite medium.

unknown 37:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 37:15

I think I've just only really started to dive into that. I've listened to like Alex or Mosey. I was like a big fan of like on purpose with Jay Shetty and Diary of a CEO. That's yeah. Just because there's such a variety of things that they talk about on there. Like you have things about the world, but then you have business, and then you have like spiritual, emotional, it's all encompassing in all of those. And I think it you just always can learn something from each and every one.

SPEAKER_00 37:42

I think it comes down to who's on the podcast too.

SPEAKER_02 37:44

100%.

SPEAKER_00 37:45

If I can relate to them and if I or even listen to them. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 37:48

Their voice matters.

SPEAKER_00 37:50

Even having some like watching listening to some episodes on the Joe Rogan podcast. Yeah, I love Joe. Those are great.

SPEAKER_04 37:55

Yeah, it's exactly. I'm not gonna be listening to a MMA one. Yeah, usually like a political commentator, sometimes a comedians. Yeah. Or like yeah, like a UFO expert or something. Yeah, yeah. Those are interesting. Yeah. Totally.

SPEAKER_00 38:07

If I'm like going on long drives, we'll put on like crime junkies or something. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 38:11

Some things that just like I I think for any of us to just shut your mind off. Yeah. Like we're always looking for something to just distract our minds.

SPEAKER_00 38:19

The one time we were driving home from up north, it was like a three-hour drive, and I was driving four people. Yeah. And we're on the way home. And we all wanted to listen to a crime podcast.

SPEAKER_04 38:31

Oh, you just text me, you guys. I'll give you a record. It's fine. I have a whole list I can share.

SPEAKER_00 38:36

So I forget who who chose the episode. But I literally 10 minutes in, everyone was passed out. And I listened to this entire podcast by myself.

SPEAKER_01 38:45

And then he chopped down.

SPEAKER_00 38:47

And we went to the gas station. Everyone woke up. I'm like, did I just listen to that thing by myself?

SPEAKER_01 38:53

That's true. Because I have no one to talk to about it. So what do you guys think? Crickets. Literally.

SPEAKER_04 38:58

I don't know. It just put them all to sleep. I don't know what that says about them, though, that they can just fall asleep to a murder pop.

SPEAKER_02 39:04

Oh, sorry, Corna about to expose you. My sister, she used to fall asleep listening to crime junkie or whatever. I was lying. I'm totally.

SPEAKER_01 39:14

I can't. It's actually quite comforting.

SPEAKER_04 39:17

I do listen to a sleep podcast once in a while called Nothing Much Happens. The girl has a very slow voice. Like this. Yeah, it's pretty good. Yeah. There's a lot of ads in the beginning. You have to skip like five minutes, but after that, it's yeah. Yeah. We do love a podcast.

SPEAKER_00 39:34

Yeah. Are you a big like reader?

SPEAKER_04 39:36

I used to read more. I try, but honestly, it's usually just a mechanism to fall asleep. Yeah. Have a couple books on the go. I used to read a lot. I think my attention span is just shot from social media, though.

SPEAKER_02 39:48

Yeah. That's how I feel.

SPEAKER_04 39:50

I just sometimes will lie and say I read something when I heard it on TikTok. You're like, yeah, I read that. I read this thing. No, I heard it on TikTok. That's the reality.

SPEAKER_00 39:59

I can't remember the last time I finished a book.

SPEAKER_04 40:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 40:02

It takes me a long time to read.

SPEAKER_04 40:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 40:04

I have a couple on the go right now, and I feel like I also I'm at fault for it because the only books I pick up that I want to read are like business development and personal development and branding. And so those books can get very boring quick. And so I've never really found a book that actually captivates you.

SPEAKER_04 40:24

Yeah. I do enjoy audiobooks, so I think that's probably just a podcast thing because I you can just kill two birds. I'd rather like organize a linen closet while listening to a book on probably 1.5 speed. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 40:36

That's what I do. Sometimes I'll actually have the e-reader in front of me or like my Kindle and have the audiobook playing so that I'm like making sure I'm getting both to dive in.

SPEAKER_00 40:48

I've done it a few times with the business books I've been reading. He at the very start of the book, he like mentioned that he does this for himself because he is able to retain the information a lot better. That's interesting. Yeah, he will listen to it as he's like skimming the pages too.

SPEAKER_02 41:03

Yeah, that's what I do. Because I find that it really holds my attention when I know that it's like I have to actually pay attention to where I'm at when someone's talking in my ear, telling the story.

SPEAKER_04 41:14

I think having yeah, both senses, it's a lot more challenging to get distracted. Yeah, it would be more challenging for your brain to drift off and be then you're like half a page down and you retain nothing. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 41:24

100%. That's how I am.

SPEAKER_00 41:27

Yeah, and you get back into it. I don't I'll put up pick up a book for a couple days and it'll be on my bedside table for the next three months.

SPEAKER_02 41:35

It is helpful though when you're wanting to sleep, honestly. Like it's it activates your brain so your mind is like focused and you're tiring your mind out by reading. Yeah. And it's a good mechanism for falling asleep. And I've been doing that lately. If I'm not doing that, I'm listening to meditation.

SPEAKER_00 41:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 41:55

It's just like I'm trying to be more mindful about screen time before bed.

SPEAKER_00 41:59

My sisters called me out a few times because I would buy a book at New Year's and it'd be like a big business development book.

SPEAKER_04 42:07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 42:08

And I'd post my story with the caption, can't wait to read this thing. And then I would get the 10 pages, put it down, and then six months later I'd post the same book on my story and be like, I can't wait to finish this thing. Oh, to dive back into this book. I feel like that's a vacation book.

SPEAKER_04 42:25

When you get to the airport, you're like, I'm totally reading this in the page. You know, and then you're like, you're carrying this heavy book around the whole time in your purse, probably. Yeah. You get home, you're like, I could have probably saved three pounds, not letting this hardcover.

SPEAKER_02 42:40

Yeah. I brought a 700-page book to Mexico with me last year.

SPEAKER_04 42:43

How many pages?

SPEAKER_02 42:44

I maybe got through a hundred.

SPEAKER_01 42:47

I was like, I'm in Mexico. What am I doing? Reading. I have no business doing reading.

SPEAKER_04 42:53

Yeah. Read we'll read menus.

SPEAKER_01 42:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 42:56

Menus wine list. Be real. That's funny. Are we happy?

SPEAKER_00 43:02

I think this was a great podcast.

SPEAKER_04 43:04

I don't think I talk too much about marketing.

SPEAKER_02 43:06

I think we dived into it. Yeah. Yeah. That's what this is, though. It's more than the brand. It's more than.

SPEAKER_00 43:13

One question I do have is as a business owner, when you had your tattoo shop and now being a CEO of Den 1880, do you think the content is different or is there all the kind of the same idea behind it?

SPEAKER_04 43:28

Tattooing as a medium for in social media is more of a portfolio in a similar way that photography would be. We had range, but generally around seven artists. So it's basically a a large portfolio, and you're trying to show people who are prospective clients the variety of styles that you can do and the quality of the work. With that, it's definitely more of a consistency game. And again, archiving is great too. You can post, archive, and keep people's best work there.

SPEAKER_02 43:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 43:56

But I did try to again, it's The human element. People stop in their tracks when they see people.

SPEAKER_02 44:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 44:03

I think people who follow tattoo pages specifically, they probably follow quite a few. They'll be scrolling in their stories or on their feed, and it can become a dime a dozen. So when stories became a thing, and I think they're way more popular than feed now, you definitely see a huge engagement jump when there's people. So a lot of times I would just walk around the shop and instead of just showing the tattoo, you'd show like the tattooer actively working, doing the service. And I think that adds another element of who am I going to see? One thing with the tattooers too, that I talked about a lot and we didn't really talk about, but I found that they would compare themselves to a lot to different tattooers and oh, they have a hundred thousand followers. And I would always say, I actually find that as a disservice in a lot of way, even if you think about any personal service. If I looked at a hairstylist, for example, and they had a hundred thousand followers, I would think I'm never gonna get an appointment and it's gonna cost$5,000 or something absurd. But what happens to a lot of people, I think, when they get big on socials is that they get followers in a way that people are trying to base maybe copy their style or emulate them, not because people are coming for services. And you can have a hundred thousand followers, but if they're in Australia, you're not making a dime. You need it's I would say better to have a smaller file follower count, but of people that are engaging, people that are purchasing your services or whatever it is that you're offering. So I think that there's like a fine balance between getting famous on Instagram, and if that's what you want, that's great. But I'll never forget I reached out to this one tattooer who I'm such a fan of. I will let them be nameless, but they have a ton of followers. And I thought for sure I'd be waiting like a year. Yeah. Like most of the tattooers at my shop were like between three and six months or more wait list for a lot of the guys that were doing like bigger like back pieces or like Japanese style, like a little bit more time consuming, like portrait style. It would be six months to a year. And they might have a thousand followers. They don't even post because the work will speak for itself. So I reached out to the person who has so many followers and they were like, Yeah, do you want to come this Saturday at one o'clock or whatever it was? This Saturday, like Saturdays of all the days are booked, booked. Yeah. And then I thought maybe he like saw that I have the shop, but like maybe it's that, but like it wasn't. Yeah. It's just that they are just bigger on Instagram than they are in in real life, and they're not doing as much work as it might seem like that they are.

SPEAKER_02 46:29

Yeah. Yeah. So take that with a grain of salt when you see someone with so many followers.

SPEAKER_00 46:35

We had a hairstylist on for episode six. Lisa.

SPEAKER_03 46:38

Lisa She works, she also works here.

SPEAKER_00 46:41

She talked about the human connection behind what she does and how it's received so much more better than just showing a picture of her mile product. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 46:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 46:53

And then I always said, I'd rather have, what was it? Like 500 followers and more people engaging and wanting to work with me rather than having a million followers and less than 1% actually engage with it.

SPEAKER_04 47:08

Yeah, exactly. Especially once you dip down below those levels of negative engagement to your follower count, you're down in that algo. I don't know how that works, but you'll see people and they have 10,000 followers and they get 80 likes in a picture. What are you doing? It's not either they're bots or bot followers, or you've just done something and people are not engaging.

SPEAKER_02 47:27

And that's like the, and we talk about like that with content specifically. It's as a business, like what kind of content are you creating? Are you creating trendy, trending sound content that's gonna get you followers? But what is that converting to? Yeah. Nothing and or little to no leads. And it's okay. So where do you draw that line as a business owner where you're like, okay, am I actually going to create organic content for myself that like actually aligns with my business to gain leads that way? Or am I just gonna continue to follow trends just because I want a high follow count?

SPEAKER_00 48:01

For example, like even if for a tattoo shop, if I was doing a video and it went viral for a million views, it's so hard because it's so local and so niche. Like at what percentage of those viewers are actually in your city wanting to get a tattoo?

SPEAKER_04 48:17

And will that change the perspective client that's in your city to think I can't go there now, they're too intimidating online. I don't want to walk in there, they're too cool. So it's a fine line.

SPEAKER_02 48:29

Yeah, for sure.

SPEAKER_00 48:30

Yeah. It's a really good perspective on it. We don't get a we need to know who they are and what they do through just a conversation rather than trying to find the next viral moment.

SPEAKER_02 48:46

Yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 48:47

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 48:48

And that's what we we always ask what's important to you? Leads or what's the goal basically? Just are you trying to become famous? Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 48:55

And part of this podcast is going back to the why of a business and why you're doing it.

SPEAKER_02 48:59

100%.

SPEAKER_04 49:01

Yeah, I think it's interesting to consider the potential opposite effect it can have if you start to reach a level of success and notoriety. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 49:12

How that can Yeah, especially if you grow so quickly as a personal brand, but you have no idea what to do when it comes to the business sense. Yeah. At what point do you have all these brands and businesses reaching out to you to do collaborations and partnerships, but you have no idea what happens on the back end of like when do I start charging for these videos I'm creating for these brands? Because a lot of these brands will just take advantage of the creators and exchange product or tell them to buy this for a discount and then give basically do a video for them.

SPEAKER_04 49:49

So especially in early creator stages, I think people are just so excited to get reached out to that they'll I think probably a lot of brands are trying to just get on to a creator when they're just starting. And yeah. But it that's probably just a good learning curve for them. Totally.

SPEAKER_00 50:05

I guess it's the opposite to that too. It's being a young creator and having all the excitement and motivation to reach out and do these collaborations and partnerships. And the second you don't get a response, or you do get a response, but it's maybe been a week and all your motivation is gone and you don't want to do that anymore. Now you're not responding to the brand who initially invested in you to do this.

SPEAKER_04 50:27

That's fair. Yeah. I think in the early stages here too, it was like when we were talking about what we were building, and I think it was good in a lot of ways that we were so intentional. There were folks that came in and they saw offices or wanted memberships, and it was early days, and they just genuinely were not the right fit. It is so hard to say no to potential business, especially so early on. Yeah. When it's like everything that you need. But we wanted to make sure that the vibe here was intentional, that people weren't soliciting, that there wasn't going to be someone trying to have a pyramid scheme or just try to like get in front of every person that they can and totally change the whole atmosphere. So it was really hard. But I think that is a huge lesson. In the early days, stay focused, say no when you need to.

SPEAKER_00 51:18

It's not being afraid of rejection.

SPEAKER_04 51:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 51:20

I'm still learning on how to say no more. And when I do say no, it's a great feeling.

SPEAKER_04 51:25

Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 51:26

But I think Alex Mozi said it when you're going after this bigger goal, and all these small things are like wanting your business, it's so hard to say no to those things because it's so easy to get those. But you have to be mindful and remember where you're headed.

SPEAKER_02 51:44

Yeah. Because those little things could also be a setback for you rather than a stepping stone.

SPEAKER_04 51:49

I swear 10% of your clients make 90% of your problems too. You have to know when to cut the fat. Yeah. And when people are, there's a any industry, it's like a restaurant, the person's like the big complainer, a person who they're always like a the person who just is that thorn in your side every day. You see their name on your email and you're like, gosh, what now?

SPEAKER_02 52:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 52:07

You have to just know when to rip the band-aid and say, this isn't working. Yes. For so many reasons. Just get them out of there. It's so much easier.

SPEAKER_01 52:15

They'll take up so much of your time. Matthew, you're gonna keep that recording and gonna say that back to you every day.

SPEAKER_00 52:23

Tell me offline it was I was gonna say something about that too, but I completely the same thing with staffing and everything, too, really.

SPEAKER_04 52:32

And you genuinely have to trust your gut. Literally had CEOs asking me, like, how do you hire people? Yeah. People how are you getting poached? It's like you just it's like a relationship, really. It's deep down and you have to trust your gut. Yeah. If it's a client or whatever, and it sucks when they're could potentially be paying your bills. And this is the difference between making your goal that month or not. But deep down, yeah, totally.

SPEAKER_00 52:53

It's it's uh it I think it's a meme or some trend where it's like those bigger clients are the so like the easiest. They pay on time, they sign the contracts, they do everything on time with no explanation, no questions. And the smaller clients are questioning every single thing.

SPEAKER_04 53:09

Yeah. Just let me know who they are. I'll let them know. Jackie's on our team now. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 53:15

We're expanding. I'm hired. This is actually an interview. Yeah. Good job. Crushed it.

SPEAKER_04 53:22

Love it. Thank you so much for having me.

SPEAKER_02 53:24

Thank you for being here.

SPEAKER_00 53:25

Yeah, this was a lot of fun.

SPEAKER_02 53:26

Yeah, it was fun. This is our longest conversation.

SPEAKER_04 53:28

Oh, really? Yeah. I was trying to go Joe Rogan time. Three hours long. Yes. Let's start talking conspiracies and we'll be back. That's funny. Yeah. Love it. Thank you, Jackie. Thank you.

SPEAKER_00 53:40

Small plug, where can people find Den 1880?

SPEAKER_04 53:43

Check out our website, den1880.co. Same thing on Instagram. And that's about it. If you want to start a TikTok or come by, we're at 14 Herb Street West Waterloo. Oh, that's my other point. What's with people not putting their location on their Instagram? Where are you located? Cool. Drives me bonkers. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 54:01

It's different when we're just keep going on and on the digital stuff. It's when you're doing like Can I put my jackal on? When you're working from home and it's like having your address, then that's kind of like a lot of it.

SPEAKER_04 54:13

If it's a digital, you can get a mailing address at D.

SPEAKER_00 54:15

That's fair. It's in membership.

SPEAKER_04 54:16

But a lot of people like they'll have a service, like a personal service, and they don't have their city. Like what? Yeah. Are you looking at a place in a different part of the world? I don't know. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 54:26

That's true. There's been a plenty of times I've tried to find a business. Yeah. And I just couldn't find it.

SPEAKER_02 54:34

Like no one wants to. And that's where you lose people. I don't want to Google. I don't want to have to go to Google.

SPEAKER_00 54:38

Well honestly, even comes down to having that platform like Instagram or Facebook or that too. It's or that a website, honestly, or a landing page. It's the first point of contact.

SPEAKER_04 54:48

And you really only have a millisecond, 1.5 seconds probably to engage people.

SPEAKER_00 54:53

We made a video about this the other day. Really? How the level of quality of content that you're putting out, if it doesn't match what you offer, people are gone quick.

SPEAKER_02 55:03

Yeah, because people are looking at that was the point. It was like people are looking at the post or like the picture before they're reading anything. So you can lose people.

SPEAKER_04 55:14

Yeah, you have you add one millennial pause. Yeah. They're gone. Yeah. You have to do it quick and capture people's attention and teach them in a way that they want to stay. And then you can sell the office or whatever.

SPEAKER_00 55:26

It's also just not it's knowing that person viewing your content probably won't be reaching out until they're ready to buy. And that could be six months, that could be a week. It's actively showing up and funneling those people. Yeah, staying on top of mind.

SPEAKER_02 55:44

Yeah. Totally.

SPEAKER_00 55:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 55:47

I love that we've tried just to end this multiple times. I love it. You'll have to cut the end. That's the way we get it.

SPEAKER_01 55:55

Love it.

SPEAKER_02 55:56

We'll get there eventually.

SPEAKER_00 55:58

Yeah. But honestly, these podcasts, I haven't been cutting much. It's all AI.

SPEAKER_04 56:02

Oh, really?

SPEAKER_00 56:03

It's it's autumn it's automatically tracking pauses more than a second long.

SPEAKER_04 56:08

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 56:08

It's automatically tracking all of the filler words, like ums, ands.

SPEAKER_04 56:13

Can we prompt it mid record to maybe try?

SPEAKER_00 56:18

It can enhance the quality of the audio. It can create like an intro for you if you wanted to. Oh, cool. Yeah, it's pretty cool.

SPEAKER_04 56:25

Got a jingle going. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 56:27

Yeah. And start singing. Oh, start singing.

unknown 56:30

Love it.

SPEAKER_00 56:31

Anyways, thank you so much. Thank you. This was a blast. We've been wanting to do this for a long time. Yeah. Did not disappoint.

SPEAKER_01 56:37

So thanks, guys. Thank you.