The Gap Between What Clients Want and What Actually Works — with Owen Mert

For episode 10, Matt and Liv sit down with Hamilton-based photographer and filmmaker Owen Mert for an honest conversation about the disconnect that lives at the heart of most small business content. 

Clients want viral. They want trendy. They want it fast and cheap. And Owen has spent years navigating that gap — figuring out how to deliver work that actually moves the needle while staying true to the craft he fell in love with. 

He talks about growing up wanting to shoot big commercial productions, watching that world shrink as budgets shifted to influencers and quick-turn social, and how that forced him to find a different way to do meaningful work at a smaller scale. 

They get into his real estate storytelling approach and why ditching the templated formula in favour of finding the actual story behind a listing changes everything. They also cover what's really in front of the camera — wardrobe, props, lighting, art direction — and why that stuff matters more than any gear upgrade. 

Plus repurposing content with intention, the truth about how long a post actually lives on the feed, and the ongoing hypocrisy of telling clients to show up consistently online while quietly neglecting your own channels.

A podcast about what really goes on behind the scenes of building brands, businesses, and personal platforms. 

We talk marketing, content, branding, community, and the uncomfortable middle between idea and execution.
Built for founders, creators, and business owners who want honest conversations, not recycled advice.


Hosted by Matt and Olivia. Audio-only for now. New episodes regularly.

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Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:00

Let's jump right into it. Episode 10 with myself, Matt, Liv, and Owen. Yes. Hello. We're uh we're pumped to have you on. This happened very quickly. Yeah. We Liv and I were we didn't have anyone lined up. We were just gonna do episode 10, just ourselves, and kind of reflect on what we've taken from the last couple episodes. And you texted me saying you were in Waterloo. And I was like, well, we have to meet. Let's just hop in the pod. It works for me. Because I mean, you're from Niagara, right?

SPEAKER_00 0:31

Uh I actually been born in Mississauga. I grew I said I grew up in Burlington and now I live in Hamilton. I've been in Hamilton for seven years now. Okay. So just kind of keep moving, moving out west. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 0:44

Because I've been talking to Jared. I feel like we're gonna reference it. We're gonna reference Jared a ton in this. But I've been trying to get him on the podcast for so long, but it's so hard to get him to like walk away.

SPEAKER_00 0:55

Yeah, I was gonna say he doesn't like he can't he barely comes to comes to Hamilton.

SPEAKER_01 0:58

So and his brother lives like around the corner from me too. I was gonna say you gotta catch him when he's coming out. He does.

SPEAKER_03 1:04

Oh, I didn't realize that.

SPEAKER_01 1:05

He'll send me like his pin on like Google Maps sometimes with like no context. I'm like, you can ask me to the kid for coffee or something.

SPEAKER_00 1:15

For everyone listening, who is Owen? It's a great question. It's the age-old question. It's uh I'm uh photographer, uh video creator, filmmaker. I am half of Oates Studios, or I call it Oates, is uh Owen and Tory Studios, who's my partner. Okay, so that's where it comes from. Yeah, Oates is uh is what we we started with, yeah. We're trying to figure out a fun name, and yeah, we landed on Oates and worked out to be Owen and Tory and all that. That's kind of like OM Olivia McCarrow, but Olivia. Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_03 1:49

The his hat that he's wearing, that's literally if you see my signature, that's what it looks like.

SPEAKER_00 1:53

So funny because I was looking at it and my original like in high school would have been Owen's photography. Yeah. And it was just like a scribbly OM hat way more like not cursive nights like that, but looking out, I was like, I could wear that hat and people would be all like, oh, that's yours. Yeah. Like, no.

SPEAKER_01 2:09

Yeah. I love it. That's cool. So I first met you last year, right? Or was it two years ago?

SPEAKER_00 2:15

Well, I think we we have some overlap of of people. Uh Cassidy, who was on the show before I went to to university with, and uh you worked with her before that heard about you and all that stuff, and uh just from looking at local photographers and videographers in the area and all that stuff I'd seen your work. We have some similar clientele and overlap and all that stuff. Yeah. I think we only met yeah or about a year ago.

SPEAKER_01 2:42

Yeah, because you were doing kind of like a test trial photo shoot with a pickable pickable or was it a sunglass?

SPEAKER_00 2:52

Yeah, it was there was uh a certain effect that I lighting effect that I had seen that I wasn't I didn't really had an idea of how to do before I tried to actually do it. I wanted to try it in studio. And so I was trying to figure out uh interesting all a lot of my stuff is sports adjacent and whatnot. Uh and so I was like, oh pickleball would work for this. And uh so that's why I landed it all on, but and then it kind of turned it into a sunglass shoot. I never actually ended up doing anything with it, it was really just like a test shoot to see yeah how it all worked kind of.

SPEAKER_01 3:25

Which is so like fascinating to me because like when I showed up, it was so like technical. Yeah. And like you were saying these numbers, I was like, I have no idea what's going on right now.

SPEAKER_00 3:38

It's it's a the the high-end photography studio work is is so different to everything out. It's uh it's what not what I went to school for, but it's the part that I really enjoyed doing, and it's it's definitely a dying part of photography now, just because it's so easy to you know, everyone's a photographer and lots of people need content but don't want to pay for really great content, so it ends up being a little bit more of a on location and uh it's social content is just what's the word we talked about it last episode.

SPEAKER_01 4:15

It's just so quick now and everything's changing so fast that you don't have the time to like do put the effort into these photo shoots.

SPEAKER_00 4:24

Yeah, it's uh it it's really tragic because that's the when I started doing photography, that's what I fell in love with. So it's like the big, big production, big commercial projects, thinking like Nike and these big brands and uh you know, on in studio with crazy lighting and props and all that stuff, and it's just even having conversations with like people who are really at the top a couple years ago, but like even they're struggling to like get work because the the budget that was for these big productions has now all been allocated to influencers and other types of work, exactly and AI too. Exactly. So it it's just the spending eight hours in a studio to get twelve like amazing photos, it's just not a thing anymore. That's uh it's what I love to do, so I'm gonna keep trying to do it. But totally.

SPEAKER_03 5:17

Well, that's what we just talked about with my sister, because she's she's not a photographer, but she does like marketing and graphic design.

SPEAKER_01 5:24

And she's creative director, graphic design, social media manager, do it all like we all do uh at a agency in downtown Toronto. Okay, and basically just like I saw her on Christmas Day, just like on the website working because she was like, There's no one in place to like do these things. Yep. So she was taking on every single role. Yeah, it's it's but it was it was cool to see the her perspective from it because she's the one like hiring out photographers and filmmakers, and even like she said the biggest brands are still dealing with the same issues every small business is.

SPEAKER_00 6:00

Yep. It it's uh the it's so funny. The difference between a small business and a big business is really just like it's a number on a balance sheet for their budget for the year. I've been finding, and uh, but it's all it's all the same problems, it's all content, it's all how do we be relatable, how do we stand out, and then you know, the they all want to be viral, and it's being viral and making good content are just so two totally different things. I think of someone like a like the Paul brothers or like a Mr. Beast who are really good at being viral, but if you were to pitch that to a client of a small business to do, they would be like, What are you talking about? Why would I why would we film it on a phone? Why would I be you know all you know super exaggerated and all that stuff? But like that's what viral looks like nowadays to to to beat the algorithm to say, but good organic content that shows your brand and and builds uh that trust before the customer walks in the door, 100%. It's two very different things.

SPEAKER_01 6:59

There's two things I want to ask from that. One is that the bigger photo shoots, the technical stuff, is that what you're grateful for taking out of school? And second one was kind of the same thing. Are you having these conversations with a lot of people you work with? Kind of the difference between like a lot of clients want like the viral content, and then sometimes it's like trying to convince them that doing more authentic and organic stuff is probably the better way to go. Yeah, I think I mean where I start.

SPEAKER_00 7:29

School, school is definitely something. I think when I start even like thinking about going to school, like out of high school, I I was doing I've been doing photo and video stuff kind of. I remember doing it in grade five kind of thing with like little point-shute camera to the park with nerf guns and like doing like nerf like and like editing like muzzer muzzle flashes on like nerf guns and stuff like that, because that's just what I liked. And uh not skateboarding stuff, nerf stuff. The the nerf stuff first. There was some I did some photos of like longboarding and all that stuff, but uh no, it was but anyways, that started me on a path of of all this stuff, and throughout high school and all that stuff, that's when I really liked this big production stuff. But yeah, it just doesn't exist anymore. This like high-end uh high end work, and it seems like the only way you can do it now is to do it like a passion project. And and it doesn't unfortunately just doesn't really make sense for for big businesses, or unless you're a big business that can justify the budget, just your dollar for a small business can go so much far further with some, you know, more authentic content. I think it's it's really like uh I think that's the problem is that these companies need to do social media, they need content to to show what they're doing, to show the the employees, to show the the product, to show all that kind of stuff. And but they don't really have the budget to do anything really custom, so it ends up being all very similar, which is like showing up to the location so you can show the location, show the people, show the process, show the product. And it I think it's a little bit of like just budget constraints and time constraints, because that's the other thing, is that they don't want to put in the time to necessarily write a big script beforehand or come up with a big production or extras or get wardrobe. Those are the things that really separate, you know, uh it's easy content versus like something that really stands out. It's like taking the extra steps to do this like more intricate stuff.

SPEAKER_01 9:28

Yeah. And it even like there's some conversations I'm having with like these clients, and it's like trying to figure out where we sit on how big the production is. And it's like, okay, do you need a makeup artist to come in and like help you? And they're like so confused by that because that's the last thing they think they need. Yeah. But it's maybe the one thing that could really separate.

SPEAKER_00 9:50

It's uh it's so funny because it's like on set, there's like all these people. Like you could be on set and there's 50 people, and everyone has one job that they're taking care of to their fullest potential kind of thing. Whether it's you know a camera department, there's three people who are just worried about getting the camera set up in the right space up and running so that people can can can view it. And then there's people who are just doing wardrobe and makeup and all that stuff. And then you come to a small, you know, business like us kind of thing, and we have to do wear all of those hats. Yeah, it it's it's absurd.

SPEAKER_01 10:25

Yeah, and I think one of the things that sells us a lot is how we're doing all the planning for them. The scripting, the editing, the shooting, the strategy behind it, like everything that goes into it. You don't need a big team to do that. You just need one person that can kind of cover all those.

SPEAKER_00 10:43

Yeah, especially if the if the business owner wants to put in some time themselves and source some of those things and do some of that work, then that's only more time that we can focus on the other parts. Like it's totally it's it needs to be a big collaborative effort and not just uh a one-way uh hire you and you do it all. I don't want to pay you a good price and I don't and you have to turn around right away. Yeah. That triangle of time and money and and quality and all that. It's yeah, can't have it all kind of thing. So if you can take some of the load out of that, I can do some more.

SPEAKER_01 11:14

Which has been a huge difference, even with like Liv coming on projects with me. The just having extra hands there makes the experience a lot easier and better for the client too. Yep. Because I'm not running around trying to do all these things. Yep. I can just focus on shooting and framing and making sure everything else is correct. Yep. And then Liv can make sure that like everything else is in order, people are where they need to be, and like we're kind of following the timeline.

SPEAKER_00 11:42

Yeah, I think so that that that's the whole I idea of Oates is me and Tori, I kind of work a lot more on the the technical, the camera, the the editing, all that kind of stuff. But she has worked in film for a number of in the art department. Uh so the the the the thing that I found so much more valuable than a better camera or all that kind of technical stuff is making sure everything in front of the camera is like as amazing as possible. So wardrobe matters so much. Like if you know people show up and what they are wearing that day, and it's like, no, like bring some bring some wardrobe, like it's it's what's in front of the camera. The that's why, you know, often in on the technical side we think of lighting as being like the most important part, which it a hundred percent is because it's what's in front of the camera. Yeah, you can make an iPhone look amazing with good lighting. Yeah, and the content itself, what's in front of the camera. Like if you're standing there looking at it and going like, wow, this looks really good, then it's gonna look amazing on camera. Yeah. But it's all this other work that's has nothing to do with cameras, lighting, editing, yeah, that you need to focus on. And that's where Tori comes in and she's like hands down amazing at adapting a space and bringing in some intentional items to really elevate the you know production value of a project.

SPEAKER_01 12:59

For sure.

SPEAKER_00 12:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 13:00

Yeah. Even Liv is like pretty much every boot board.

SPEAKER_00 13:04

Yep.

SPEAKER_01 13:04

Liv lives on Pinterest.

SPEAKER_00 13:06

On Pinterest folks, it helps so much. It helps uh even with talking with clients on a like uh doing graphic design or anything like that. Sometimes you can show them photo work or something, and they can just like I don't need you to tell me what's wrong with it. I need you to tell me what you like about it, and that can be all like something here feels off, or this doesn't really fit the vibe of the shoot when it comes to it. And that without being like, oh, the lighting is more orange or like very specific, yeah, can tell us so much where it's like this just doesn't feel right. It's like okay, like we can figure that out.

SPEAKER_01 13:38

Which I was watching a video, Masters just finished. Yep. Are you a big golfer? Of course. Okay. So Masters just finished, and I was they put out uh kind of like a short film highlighting one of the photographers.

SPEAKER_00 13:51

Yeah, the uh I I I I didn't watch it, but I saw the clips of the baseball player.

SPEAKER_01 13:56

Baseball or baseball NFL, I forget. Yeah, one of the two, but but they were kind of highlighting his first experience at the 2025 Masters and like for me, Dream Project, being at the manager, shooting social competitions. So I was watching this video and I was like, I wonder what goes on behind the scenes to get like the photos that they need to publish.

SPEAKER_00 14:20

Yep.

SPEAKER_01 14:21

And so it's actually like kind of crazy what goes on behind the scenes of like having photographers at set locations around the golf course down to like how they're framing the fo the shot. Yep. And even like after each round, the head guy, I guess, yep, was basically sitting down with him at the end of each round and like critiquing every single photo. And he was like, he doesn't have the eye for it yet, but he's getting better. Yep. And the comparison from like his first couple photos to the last couple photos on like Sunday, massive difference. And it feels like you're a spectator, and then the end of the tournament, it was like you're just like experiencing the atmosphere and like something's going on, and it's just like a golfer.

SPEAKER_00 15:03

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 15:04

It was so cool.

SPEAKER_00 15:05

The the yeah, the the Masters is such a cool showcase of branding and photography, especially. Like the A, again, this is like getting back to like the content. No one's on their phone at the Masters, you're not allowed to phone at the Masters. So all the photos, everyone you can see people's faces, they're not looking down at the phone. Remember the uh I forget what golf tournament it was, but there was this photo that uh I think it was is it Bud Light, maybe? There's or there's one guy standing there in the gallery, and he's yeah, holding holding his drink, just like watching golf, and everyone else is on their phone taking pictures and all that stuff. And he's one guy standing right in front, just drinking, uh holding a beer.

SPEAKER_01 15:46

The front row, someone was teeing off, everyone else was on their phone taking covering their faces, taking photos.

SPEAKER_03 15:53

That could be used for like a like a campaign.

SPEAKER_01 15:55

It was it was it was okay, that's why when all you see is like like his logo on his hat, his beer can, just like taking in the moment. Yeah, it's a lot of things.

SPEAKER_00 16:04

And it was like it was the it was so funny, it's the perfect beer can face it. It's like the whole logo out and it was. Um but like but yeah, the masteries, it's like there's no phone, so like everyone is watching like the and it's a beautiful course, it's beautiful lighting, it's so formal. Everyone's the the color palette of everyone is the same. Like there's not like these big, like, gosh, like showing up to shoot and someone's a neon gym shorts kind of thing, right? Like the masters are all and that gets back to what I'm saying. Like the photos all look so good and all that stuff. 100% because the photographers know what they're doing, but like the content, what's in front of them, like just standing there, you'd be all like, wow, this is beautiful. There's people watching, all dressed up in the same color palette. Yeah, it it makes everything look so much better. It's not relying on the camera to do the work or the editing to do the work. You're building something beautiful in front of you, and then you're just capturing it. I mean, it's a completely different process than like forcing a camera and lighting to make it look good and editing. Like, how much do we have to rely on some of these you know events that maybe aren't as amazing as we hope, that we're relying on the music and the editing and all that stuff to make it look fun and amazing and all that stuff when you know if it's amazing in real life, then the the rest of the work is easy.

SPEAKER_01 17:21

Yeah, literally. And you also don't see like photographers being out there at 5 a.m. as the sun's coming out to like get that lighting too, or being out there past sunset just to have that sliver of light. Exactly and you see that and you just it's like you don't know what went into getting that photo.

SPEAKER_03 17:39

It goes to show how calculated it is. I think for anything, any projects that either of you do, too. Like it's everything is like you have to plan these things out or else it just doesn't work, or the experience isn't felt through the imagery.

SPEAKER_01 17:53

And so I think that's it's like someone seeing a video on like uh social media for like inspiration and be like, I want to recreate this. It's like okay. You don't know what's going on behind the scenes, but like you don't know the lighting, you don't know if they had extra lighting, you don't know what time of day it was. It's so easy to point at it. Yeah, and it's like in Utah where like the mountains are behind the house, and it's like, okay, we're in Cambridge right now. Exactly.

SPEAKER_00 18:17

That's that's the same thing. With real estate, you get the like, oh, can you make this look a little bit more cinematic? And I'm like, it's it's a semi-attached home that was updated in the mid-2000s.

SPEAKER_03 18:29

Like there's no way that's happening.

SPEAKER_00 18:30

Like we can't, like, you gotta, yeah, it's just like there's a disconnect there.

SPEAKER_01 18:35

What's your take on like trendy? What's your take on trendy content that's happening in real estate right now?

SPEAKER_00 18:43

Trendy content in real estate. So there's you know, a bunch of major or bigger uh real estate media companies that uh they've all I uh this is kind of inside baseball of it kind of thing, but they all kind of work under the same same few companies that do the uh editing and the I'm I don't want to say any names. The uh uh there there's one company that they've all gone to to teach them how to do sales and whatnot that I think has really drastically lowered from a realtor's perspective what these media companies do. So they all have now made processes that are so streamlined that they can shoot three houses in a day, let's say send all the videos off to be edited, the photos are automatically edited in 20 minutes, and it it it's real estate media is so much of a process business than it is uh anything else, and they found a process to make very trendy videos with nice big captions that are animated and showing off the house in a nice way, all this nice upbeat music. So I was doing a little bit of that, and then I kind of realized that what I like so much more about real estate is being able to tell stories, like each house has a story, uh, some of them more obvious than others. But I think that that's my advantage that I've been looking at kind of maintaining in is to not do the trendy stuff, but tell the most unique story there we can for the house and making it something along those lines. It's uh yeah, it's really easy to go in and do the trendy music and do the sound, but it's another thing to talk to the agent, figure out the story. Normally if you talk to them before an idea of what this video is going to be, shooting it on the day. Sometimes, you know, these real estate agents are real estate agents, they're not meant to be on camera, they don't want to be on camera. Yeah, so sometimes you get some that are really excited to be on camera, are used to it and present very well. Some of them, you know, I just did one the other day that it was all voiceover and a couple shots of them walking through different scenes and all that stuff, edit it together. And I I think that that that's my advantage that I try and keep up is uh more so working one-on-one with the agent to tell a unique story for the house as opposed to putting them through a system where they get yes, nice, clean, shiny work, which is great for a lot of agents, truly unique content. Then I think working with someone like me uh is is that's what I try and sell is that one-on-one connection and process.

SPEAKER_01 21:23

Some of the listings that like stand out for me is like one of the closest groups I work with. We go into each listing, yep, and we're trying to highlight like the people going like moving into that house and like the neighborhood. And like for one example, we had one listing last summer in a pretty nice area, and we were highlighting someone like golfing. It was during Master's Week as well. Yep. And so they had an indoor pool, like yours are just a nice house. Exactly. And so you were highlighting like that morning experience of like waking up early, the light coming through, going downstairs in the basement, hopping on the treadmill in the gym area, going into the sauna that they had. The living of it, not just showcasing it. Yeah. And so the visual looked great. And but you're also piecing together this story of like what's happening too.

SPEAKER_00 22:08

I just shot one last week that uh I was very happy with how it turned out uh with nature and that I worked with basically since the beginning. And she was like, I where I walked in and I was like, What's the story of this house? And she was like, So I sold this house six years ago to two sisters in the beginning of COVID. They they lived here, they did some renovations, they did this big backyard overhaul, and uh now they're just moving on to their next step in their lives. And I was like, Great, that's that's the story. It can be as simple as that. It doesn't have to be like that's the script. But we did we had her stand in a few different places in the house, broke it down into one or two sentence-long chunks, overlaid some b-roll throughout, and it's one of her better performing reels as of late. And it's just her telling the story. It's what I try and sell a lot is like being very authentic with just what like tell me now what the story is, and you know, if it's interesting enough, then yeah, like that can just be it. It can it doesn't have to be crazy complicated. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 23:08

I I did a listing a couple weeks ago uh for a house kind of close to downtown Kitchener. Yep. And so we shot it Saturday and Monday. Saturday morning, basically the story was they wanted to highlight the Saturday morning experience of what it's like to be in that area, and so for a lot of people in that neighborhood, the agent lived that in that neighborhood too. And so what everyone does every single weekend is walk to the kitchen and market, they go to the library, they go to their cafe, they come home, it's a relaxing early morning Saturday. And so we literally did that. We went to the kitchen and market, we got a couple clips of her like picking some fruit, yep, went to the local kitchen and library of her going through the doors, and then at a cafe. And so you're highlighting these local businesses too in the area, and you're also kind of referencing the photo the houses too.

SPEAKER_00 23:59

It becomes less about the house. I think the the problem with a lot of real estate media is that it's all about the house, which is I get it, that's what you're buying is that, but it's all the it's so funny that like detail shots of furniture that won't be there when you move in because it doesn't come with the house. You get the walls kind of thing. So that's why you lean on stuff like location and all that, which is all the stuff that the realtor is selling too. But it's great getting out and doing stuff like that. It's also a double dip for the realtors because you can send them that footage afterwards, and then their you know, monthly uh market report can use that footage as in the background using a Canva template or whatever tips that they want to use. And it's like it's just it's adding value to the realtors. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 24:37

That's kind of goes into the next topic, is like repurposing content.

SPEAKER_00 24:41

Yeah, it's uh it's the the thing nowadays is figuring out how you can maximize out of one shoot. Like it's a lot of effort to put these shoots together, but the more you can maximize the value from from a shoot, uh, the more it's worth to the realtor or the the small business, the the more evergreen content that you can use for them, uh, especially if it's inside and it's not seasonal, yeah. Uh it can be infinitely valuable to the to the business. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 25:11

Like Liv has a lot of experience with like social media management. Like even do you want to talk about that? With what specific when you're, for example, when we just did the latest Club60 photo shoot. Yeah. Like you're using the content for stories every single day for the new workouts uploaded every single week.

SPEAKER_03 25:29

Yeah. I think with like like sh sorry to cut you off, but like with like shoots and creating that evergreen content, you still have to be super strategic with how you're using it. I think it's easy to get super excited about content that you receive right away and like you want to use it right away. And I think it's really important to see value in what works for and like what's relevant right now to like your current processes or like what you're promoting and things like that. And then you can kind of hold on to anything else for like later projects and like later promotions, and as yeah, like as much as you can like repurpose, you really still want to think about the planning behind it. And I think you can use stuff from like months ago. Like our first Club 60 shoot was in December, I think.

SPEAKER_01 26:17

Yeah, December before Christmas.

SPEAKER_03 26:19

And like I'm still using them to this day, and like it could just be like a close-up of like a photo or like just like different ways of utilizing the content, whether it's like plain with text, a cover photo, a story, whatever, everything can be used over and over again.

SPEAKER_01 26:35

But you're also using it across newsletters, websites, uh, graphics. Yeah. Like you're incorporating them into like videos now.

SPEAKER_00 26:44

Yep. The uh I've been selling more and more just like licensing, just like I'll give you a drop box of all the footage at the end because they want the content for themselves. They don't know why they want it. They know that they want will use it at some point. At some point they're gonna go, we're gonna use that again. Especially stuff like you're talking about Club Sixty, and I think about like, you know, this by December next year, gonna have a year's worth of of content that you can look back on and say, like the first year of Club 60 kind of thing have like you know, you can do that, you know, fast cut, you know, from from now to then and all that stuff.

SPEAKER_03 27:18

I did that actually when it was like a year of Matt and I working together. Yeah, I did like like we did video content we didn't think we were, but then we started doing video content, and it was like all the random videos and stuff. And I'm also the worst for like repurposing because I change my hair every three months. So there's some with like black hair, brown hair, so it's like sometimes it's not as relevant. Yeah, but it's nice to see like the evolution of like your personal and like your business brand.

SPEAKER_00 27:50

I think it gives authenticity. I think it gives all that like to see you going up every day and and working and showing like you changing, your hair changing, whatever it is. Yeah, I think it it adds so much authenticity and shows that you're you're doing it every day. It's not this isn't the aside thing for you. This is it's life.

SPEAKER_01 28:08

That's why some of the biggest like personal brands and businesses blowing up right now is because they're just documenting every single day, and people are seeing in real time what it's taking to build a business.

SPEAKER_00 28:20

Yeah, it's uh it's my my number one downfall is having no real social media presence. Uh it's uh I I know that that's the playbook is to to yeah, show just show your life, show you uh what was the trend the month ago, show you working, not show your work. Oh, show you working, not your work.

SPEAKER_02 28:38

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 28:39

Uh and uh it's a hundred percent true. It's uh I'm not doing it because I honestly don't have capacity to take on any more work. Uh yeah, and uh, but it's high on my list. I I'm shooting projects thinking of con I have so many iPhone clips that I want to cut into main videos and all that stuff to to post. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 28:56

Well, we were talking about that the other day. Like we all go through like those phases of being like super consistent and then we kind of fall off. And I know like Matt is experiencing that right now, but I'm like, you've been so busy with like what you're doing outside of social media that like that's just the truth behind what you do. It's what it is. I'm like, there's people who aren't doing stuff outside of their social media presence, so that they have like they have that capacity and that opportunity to create whenever, wherever, and do things like that. But I'm like, you and like you, I'm sure Owen, you also agree that like when you're in like the thick of work and you have so much going on, the last thing you're doing and thinking about is putting a reel out there.

SPEAKER_00 29:37

I uh I applaud you for even saying consistent on this podcast for 10 episodes. To be honest, like so many people will quit after a handful and all that stuff or a couple bad talks.

SPEAKER_01 29:48

I said uh most podcasts fail after like the seventh. Yeah. So I was like, let's just get to ten. Yeah. And then see if I'm gonna be happy. And then you guys got eleven already lined up. You guys can do your debrief. Yeah. And so like I at the beginning, I was like, I don't want to overwhelm ourselves thinking we can put out three episodes a week or two episodes a week. It's like let's just start with one every Thursday so we know we're filming either Monday, Tuesday, or Wednesday.

SPEAKER_03 30:14

You originally said once a month.

SPEAKER_01 30:16

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 30:17

I I think it's uh it's more valuable to I think people really get uh you know the numbers of it kind of thing. If we do do one podcast a week, then we can get three clips of it. So then we can get a podcast live post. We can get three clips, and then we get like one other photo that's like a carousel snippet or something, whatever it is, and we got five posts a week and whatever it is. Like, I think sometimes it's just like no, just like go in, have a good conversation and and yeah, when that's get used to that having good conversations first, and the clips will come. Like, don't don't worry about that.

SPEAKER_03 30:49

When that's the truth, I'm sorry, I'm probably gonna say what you said, or thinking, is that like that happened last week. It's like we we've been pretty good at like doing those posts and those videos and whatever, and we got one or two little clips out, but like honestly, things got so busy for both Matt and I last week that like we couldn't we didn't have the capacity to like promote it the way that we did like we typically do, but that's just how it goes. Like, we can't just we can't harm there's no harm in like just last couple episodes we've tried doing video and storage.

SPEAKER_01 31:23

You just there's so many things that goes on to it. And so I have I still have all these video files living on an SD card right now. Yep, but we've had no time to actually go in, like chop it up. It's a ton of work, and so right now, like even from the beginning, I was like, let's just focus on audio only. Yep. Get have these natural conversations. It'll take a couple minutes to edit and upload. And from each podcast, we'll take like a couple Fuji photos and just layer some text over top for that.

SPEAKER_00 31:50

Keep it simple. I think focusing on, like I've said a few times now, like focusing on the content being good and like having good conversations and your your interviewing skills and like ability to talk with people that you've never met before and someone that you know super well, yeah, and being able to balance all that and focusing on good content, and then when you have time, you can cut up clips. No one I remember that uh there's a speaker at a uh real estate event I was shooting, and he did a bunch of content, like very like viral esque content. I think he was he he was like a like a speech instructor or something like that. And he was saying how he like every six months would repost his best stuff just again on TikTok because like people have all forgotten about it. And that's when I realized that like, oh, this is like content is very much a game, and you can post it whenever and people don't really care because at the end of the day they're they're scrolling on their couch as a yeah to to decompress, and whether it's you know super timely content or not, like it it the good stuff will get served, and I think the best way to do that is by having good content. Yeah, totally.

SPEAKER_01 32:51

I think a lot of the conversations I have is how content we create is typically living on the feed for like six to eight hours, and then after that's gone, no one remembers it. And so a lot of people are so scared to post the same things over and over again, but it's realistically like over 60% of people aren't even seeing it for the first time.

SPEAKER_00 33:10

A hundred percent, or even just you can take it, you can change it a little bit and just tweak it kind of thing, and especially if you really want to you can play that whole game of posting, seeing how it performs, seeing where their attention drop off is, making a change there, reposting it months later, seeing how it changes, and and and yeah. It's a it's a whole game, the the number algorithm. That's why I I don't like playing with it.

SPEAKER_03 33:31

I'd rather just you can get so hung up on that stuff too. And like I know there's that there's a lot of people that we've talked to that are like really invested in the numbers, and like that's they really go down to like the seconds that people are dropping off, and then they like really analyze it and whatever, and then you have people who are just posting for the sake of posting, and it's like everybody's just in a different like world and doing things on their own, and it's just clear that everyone's content is specific.

SPEAKER_00 33:59

Two that you can't control, you can't really control the numbers, and I'm sure you've both felt this where you post something and you're all like it's something that you threw together last minute or whatever, and it's your best performing thing by far. And it just happens that I think it all comes down to like the content was good. Like it doesn't matter how you cut it or how good your hook was or whatever. Sometimes it just happens.

SPEAKER_01 34:19

If the message, I I saw this summer and it's so true. If the message is good, the hook and like the editing doesn't matter at all.

SPEAKER_00 34:29

One thing that I really strive for when ideating for for bigger projects, especially when I have time and budget to do good pre-production, is thinking about how can I explain the idea as if you're talking to someone at a bar, which is like the idea of like being able to like get it down to one sentence. Like did you see, hey, did you see the video of the the guy holding the Budweiser can in the golf gallery? Or did you see that picture? And like being able to like say it down to one clean sentence that like tells a story and and all that stuff. I think if you can't do that, then how is the person gonna get it watching it in the first three seconds when they're deciding to watch? Like you need that hook at the beginning or you need that that clean concept to I think that's huge because there's people who like write paragraphs on their stories, and I'm like, who's literally gonna hold the story just to read that?

SPEAKER_03 35:20

Like it's that's not happening these days. I apologize, but like that's not happening. Totally.

SPEAKER_01 35:25

I do that sometimes though, when there's like a photo and I have it in the caption. Sure, yeah, but I will post to my story with the same caption, and just like that way it's there instead of someone having to click more.

SPEAKER_00 35:38

Yeah, if the photo is not served to you, too. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 35:43

Yeah. Even like social content, like let's be honest, most reels we're creating are between 30 and 60 seconds long. Yep. It to s to say a script, like sometimes we'll get through like script that's like two minutes long. Yeah, and we're like, that felt like 20 seconds.

SPEAKER_02 36:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 36:01

And so it's like you have to try to condense this all into one small clip.

SPEAKER_00 36:06

It's my my number one thing, uh I'm working with this uh medical device company uh making content. They make uh like heart defibulators that the when the it's with the EMS division, so when they show up and they connect all the stuff to you, uh like that's their device. And uh talking with them, and it's like we did an hour-long interview, and they're like, oh, like twelve or like six reels out of it or something like that. Six like ninety-second reels, and it's the first thing I say to all of them it's just like I would rather give you 20 20-second long clips than like no one's gonna watch it for 90 seconds, especially this like type of kind of pretty nuanced topic and all that stuff. Like, I think the best clips are short clips that like you know, you gotta think of about the way people watch social media, which is like on their couch or like in line or whatever it is. Like, people don't want to be sold to, they don't want to be. So you have to like try and give them that little bit of value and then keep moving, you know, keep your time, know the time that you're you should be allowed with with the with your topic that you're trying to talk about.

SPEAKER_01 37:10

I think Google put out a stat probably a while ago saying the average consumer needs 11 touch points before they make a decision on if they want to buy something or go to the next touch point, like a website or sales funnel or whatever. And so you can't be selling all in one video, all in every single video. Like you can't have a CT at the end of every single video. Like you just have to, it's a game, like you said. Yep. And it has to be organic.

SPEAKER_00 37:39

It's reminding reminder marketing. It's it's I think the value of again, like I said earlier, a video that someone can share and be like, oh, you gotta see this video, this guy does this crazy talking about our wave error shoot, like does this crazy backlit while wakeboarding or whatever. And it's like I think a little a video like that, and then seeing him again somewhere else, and then again somewhere else, and you go, Oh, and he does drinks this protein. It's like, okay, like now, now I'm thinking about it, and now next time I'm thinking about buying protein at the grocery store, I'm gonna go, oh, maybe I'll get that stuff. Exactly.

SPEAKER_01 38:10

It's that that familiar of like seeing that over and over again. Yep. Even just like down to like the products projects, too. It's like you have like what five hours of footage, and somehow you have to condense that into 60 seconds. Yes, that is there's so much there. It's like trying to figure out what you put into it. It's it's so overwhelming.

SPEAKER_00 38:32

It's one of the skills I learned from uh I started off doing sports photography. That was like my main thing in high school and beginning of university. I got on like the studio photography side was wanting to do like you know, elevated sports uh photography in studio, but shooting actual sports like hockey and football and all that stuff, you have to very quickly be able to call through all your photos and just pick. I I always heard like I I forget what the saying is, but basically, like you're all like they're only gonna see one photo from the day. Like, like let's be real, they're gonna see one photo from the day. It's gonna be the photo on their main website banner, it's gonna be the photo on their pin post on their carousel. Like, there's gonna be one photo from the day. So that your ability to like pick that one thing, and normally, uh I this is what I was trying to remember. It's like to me, I trust my gut so much with it, it's a knee-jerk reaction. Where if I'm you know scrolling through a thousand photos that I took of a game, I can scroll through and then see what there's that one photo that you're like, oh, got it. That's the one. Like there's that gut reaction, and someone else will do this when you're like in between two photos and you're like, uh, is this or that? It's probably neither, it's probably something completely different. If you were having to think, yeah, then the consumer is too, and they're moved on already.

SPEAKER_01 39:50

Honestly, every single photo shoot as I'm calling, I'm like, oh, that's a good one. Yeah, keep going, like 10 photos later, that's another good one. Even when we're going through like her club 60 photos, I'll go through, pick out the ones I like, and then she'll go through it again and be like, find something completely like something that I would have disregarded. Yeah, and because that stands out to her, I'm like, let's include it.

SPEAKER_00 40:11

Yeah, and then the photos that both overlap that you both love are normally the ones that are gonna be the ones that are like yeah, you know, at the forefront kind of thing.

SPEAKER_01 40:19

Yeah. There's I don't know if I sent it to you, but do you know BPN, bear performance nutrition? It's a supplement company out in Texas. Okay. Every year for the past two years, I think, they've been putting on uh last man standing ultra marathon. And so basically it's a lottery to get in. Okay. It's so many people you basically put in your token to start, yeah. And then it's last man standing. And so it just wrapped up yesterday or two days ago. Okay. So many runners and came down to one person who finished it, and they ran 307 miles across three and a half days, across rain, yeah, thunderstorms, sunny weather. They have teams, but the one thing that stood out to me, and I showed live this the content they pro they produced in real time as things were happening. It was like kind of very similar to how the masters do their content. Like the it just evoked so much like emotion, yeah. And you saw what each runner was like feeling. Yeah, there is in they had live stream on YouTube and Instagram 24-7. Yep. They had photos, carousels being pushed out multiple times a day. Yep. Like cinematic film films basically being pushed out, plus like organic UGC like raw content too.

SPEAKER_00 41:39

Yep, it's uh the there's so many levels to to everything, of course. And it's just like the the big events operating at the top levels are just like there's so much you can learn and uh try and you know take and apply to to smaller businesses and all that stuff, but especially when it's live editing and and and being posted because it's a very timely event like the masters or this other event, like yeah, it it's it's crazy impressive the uh what people can do.

SPEAKER_01 42:06

Uh and that's one of the projects that is coming up this summer.

SPEAKER_00 42:10

Yep.

SPEAKER_01 42:10

And I was like, I have wanted to be in that space of like being on my feet and like constantly on the go. And so I saw that, I was like, ooh, I immediately thought of like BPN, yep, and like other events I've seen in the past. I'm like, this is exactly what this could be so cool. Yeah. If it done if it's done right.

SPEAKER_00 42:30

Yeah, and that's all always what it is. It has to be done right, has to be done the right way. Don't try and fake it, be authentic to the shoot that you're doing. Don't try and do master's work at whatever other event kind of thing. Like uh make it make it like like the event that you're you're following.

SPEAKER_03 42:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 42:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 42:47

Literally. Oh man, there's so many questions. Yeah, what else can we talk about? Um I feel like this usually happens on every single podcast. We just talk through about everything. It's like brain dump. I don't know. I think both of us are kind of in the same space. Yep. A lot of it is real estate, a lot of it is business, local business, bigger productions, having the same conversations with the same people. Yep. What are those like conversations for you? What are people like mainly asking you? People mainly asking me.

SPEAKER_00 43:19

So it's a lot of everyone knows that they need to be doing social media, but don't know how to do it, or have done it before with someone else who maybe didn't exactly know what they were doing, or you know, maybe they've hired a videographer before who came in and made it look very pretty and all that stuff, but it didn't really have any strategy or story behind it. And I think that's uh what I try and sell myself on uh myself with is uh is telling their story. Uh I love documentaries. Like I I don't really watch many uh you know fictional film. I would much rather watch a documentary on real life because I think everyone has their own storytelling. Tell uh whether it's the story of the business being made, like the a founder story type uh type of video, or what it's like at you know, a day in the life at this business, what it feels like to be there, the the the feeling of entering the the space or store or whatever it is, and uh and it ends up being the best way to do it because of the uh the limitations on budget normally and all that stuff, especially when they're getting started. Uh working with small businesses is so challenging because you you give them a number and you can sell them on it as well as you can, you know, pitching the value that you're providing, not just selling a video, the the problem that you're gonna solve with the the content that you're gonna make, uh getting people in the door. Uh, but for them, normally with a small business, they're thinking about how many you know, croissants or coffees that they have to sell to to make up that number. Yeah. And uh, you know, it it's it's a hard, it's a hard place to be. You're you're you're pulling money directly from their pocket and trying to make a big promise of of of increase. And normally sometimes it doesn't work right away. Sometimes, like you said, it's reminder marketing to next time someone's in town to think of going to your your your space. Yeah, the the conversations are always changing, they're always different, but I think it always comes down to for me trying to do something that's authentic to to their brand, uh, which normally kind of takes a little bit more of a you know documentary-esque uh you know capture style, uh capturing the day, and then figuring out what uh a talking headpiece would be, whether it's uh more of an interview, uh that's like very documentary style, or is it more talking to camera and then that B-roll being overlaid? Yeah, um, stuff like that. So and then always trying to add value. So I'm a photographer first, I say like I I I fell in love with photography, and then I more happened to do video, and uh, so I'm always trying to sell photography. I'm always trying to get at least one really good photo out of it that I can provide to them. The last uh uh shoot I was on for this medical device company, they were super happy with the video and all that stuff. But the photo was what they were like, oh my god, this is amazing! Like we're gonna use this. And I think just that little bit was like, you know, most people when you give them a scope and uh a script and you know, you know, record some interviews and get some b-rolled and edit it together, most videographers can figure that out. But I think my real value add is adding, you know, some really, really good photography that we can do very quickly on the shoot day. And that is like photography is still the gold standard of evergreen content that they can use anytime.

SPEAKER_01 46:38

Totally for the longest time. We're priority of these projects have been like video. Yep. And it's like, oh, we'll just like throw in five to ten photos. Yeah. Now I'm starting to like recognize that those five to ten photos could be a huge benefit or a bigger part to that production, basically.

SPEAKER_00 47:00

100%. It's it's if you get one really good photo, they again they can they can use that everywhere, and it is so easy. The the paying for uh marketing ads and all that stuff for a photo versus video is way cheaper. So you just get so much value out of a good photo. Yeah, and people tend to like photo. If you give someone the choice of photo or uh being on camera for a video or photo, you'd so much rather be on photo because the idea of talking and having to be on video. So they they normally love being on uh doing the photo stuff too.

SPEAKER_01 47:29

It's like kind of back to what you said with real estate agents. They're either a real estate agent and they don't like being on camera, or they're kind of both. They like they don't mind it. Yeah, same thing with like a business owner or like someone on a marketing team. Yep. Even going to like finding models to do it instead of being like them showing up on camera. Yep. Or even like doing the videos, but like not having them in it. It's just more of an experience of like the shop or whatever it may be.

SPEAKER_00 47:56

It's fast. It's so funny having to work with all these people who don't want to be on video, but they all know that they have to do it and the different ways that they approach it and deal with it.

SPEAKER_01 48:07

Uh even personal branding, like if you're trying to build a personal brand, people don't want to be showing up on camera, but like you have to be that type of person to constantly show up and put your face out there and talk in front of the camera.

SPEAKER_00 48:22

Yeah, that's that's my number one struggle is talking to the camera. I can do the BTS of me and all that stuff, but yeah, the idea of saying it's I think it's from growing up in the age of you know, YouTubers and all that stuff. I think our generation was the first generation that was like, Oh, I want to grow up and be a YouTuber kind of thing. Yeah. So whenever I see someone talking or think about talking to a camera, I'm like, oh, I just I get the cringe, but I got I know I gotta get over that at some point. And someday I will, I'm sure. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 48:48

Yeah, it's definitely something to like overcome. And like sometimes when you're doing like when you're doing it, like you're filming yourself and you're like, I'm actually just talking to myself right now. Like it's kind of like you seem kind of crazy, but like I think you have to kind of visualize that you're talking to people and like your audience and the people who are following you, and that's something that I've had to overcome and Mass really pushed me on that for my personal brand and for my business. And I think as a business owner, it's it's good to have your face on it because it makes it more human, especially in like a very like non-human world right now. Everything's just AI generated, or people aren't willing to show up as themselves. And I think it's really important to hone in on that, even if it's a challenge and it's it's something that I still struggle with. I you should see the amount of drafts of me talking, and I'm like, that's going nowhere. I can't go anywhere.

SPEAKER_01 49:40

But that's the thing, I feel like you have to go through that phase to get better. Like, you can some things I've told a lot of people is like just record for the sake of recording, yeah, even if you don't have the intention of posting it, yeah. Like just to talk and get your camera. And so even for me, I had to get over that hump of talking to the camera, even this podcast, sitting at this table at this mic for over an hour talking. Never thought I could do that. But it's like the conversations we're having is just like so I'm so passionate about it. Whereas now it's content, it's like I feel like I'm just talking to a single person through the lens rather than just talking to a flip-up screen. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 50:20

It's uh yeah, it's so funny because I can instruct people all day on on how to do it and that they should do it, but doing it yourself, I I like kudos to everyone that can do it. Like, I I fully get it. Like, I'm uh yeah, a little bit of a hypocrite in that way where I'm like to tell you how to do it, and but yeah, could never myself or haven't figured it out yet. I I really struggle with the idea of like not it was a big thing with uh being at in school was that I felt like all my profs were just like people who couldn't do it, you know, who those who can't teach or whatever the saying is. And so I don't want to show up online as the like, you know, who's this guy? Like what's his qualifications and all that stuff. Like we talked about earlier. It it is the idea of showing up uh to show your face, to show you working. You know, people will fall in love with the process, not the the end result. Yeah, and uh it's a much better mindset to have that way.

SPEAKER_03 51:11

And it gives people an idea of like, especially for both of you and anybody in your industry to see what it's like to work with you and like showing that experience, like you're not just like like robotic when you're with people and it's like you actually have relationships with these people and you can be it just like shows that overall experience. And I think that's really important.

SPEAKER_00 51:32

I think like I what I always say, like why I love photography and and the work that I get to do is that when when I we're when we're there with a camera, if there's a camera there, then something exciting is happening, right? Like something that is worth being captured to be kept, to be archived and whatnot. So just by us being there, like we're you know, whether it's a wedding, it's the best day of their life, or it's a business, like they've been saving money to show this all off, to show the work that they've been to show their product. Uh, and so it's our job to like, you know, be show their best day kind of thing. So like from us like showing behind the scenes, like it's exciting times to to to have our shoots to do our shoots because it's like it it's it's normally you know, getting up early for a beautiful sunrise to go wakeboarding or whatever it is, you know, like it's so cool to be there, it's so exciting to be there for everyone on set, and so it's like, yeah, of course, like shoot some BTS and and share that feeling. Yeah, because it having a photographer, videographer there is like by nature, something exciting is going on. There is that excitement in the air.

SPEAKER_01 52:35

It's that experience of like like doing that on a Tuesday morning. Yeah, it's so cool.

SPEAKER_00 52:41

It's so cool. The the coolest I've been on a handful of of like bigger shoots and all that stuff, and it's just like you're walking around there and you're like, this is so cool. Like you can't s wipe the smile off your face because it's just like, oh wow, like this is beautiful, like it's all coming together, especially when when you've been doing it. I I love the creative process. Like when you've been thinking about the idea and or trying to come up with the idea, and then you get a picture in your head, and then you you really start planning it out, and then on the day you kind of see it all there coming together. Yeah, uh, and it's changed a little bit because of you know your mind and the the planning isn't it always how it goes, and then you take it into editing and it changes a little bit more, and then you know, by the end product, you're super proud of it. It's always fun looking back at where the idea started and going to the end, and like yeah, that whole process.

SPEAKER_03 53:31

Yeah, something like I always like to remind like Matt of because I feel like a lot of times people just assume that you guys are just like taking a photo, like you're just clicking a button, and it's like there's nothing like people don't understand the depth of what that is, and there is a production behind it. There's so many steps, it's something that like it's a can require months of planning and months of revisions and editing, and I think really like showcasing that is like huge because it's not just about a photo, it's not just about taking a photo, it's about the people involved, it's about the production, like everything, the environment. And I I think that's something that people don't see, and it's really nice to highlight that.

SPEAKER_01 54:13

Yeah. I sometimes I stopped calling myself a photographer. Okay. Because I do way more than just taking photos now. Yes. So it's like when people call me, like, I say, like, oh, what if you were in the back of an Uber, what do you say you do?

SPEAKER_00 54:29

Yeah, I know, right? They're always gonna say you you introduced me and I panicked. That was like all the title game is is such a such a headache of like, you know, you have to do it all this day. Like I didn't say that I was an admin, but you know, that's what I was doing this morning was responding to emails. Yeah, it's uh I I take pride in being a photographer. I I really think of I I pretty romanticize being a photographer too, in a way. Like I think photography is so cool. You know, like the uh saying the master's photos is a great example. You ever look at like I forget what it is, like CNN's top photos of the year, or Getty Images Top Photos of the Yeah, and you see like I have the book Top 100 Photos from the Past Century. Yeah, and it's just like all these photos that are like just remarkable landmarks of like human achievement and like emotion and and all that all like the wide range of photos that and the emotion that can so I I love love photography. Yeah, video is the one I have a real hard time with because videographer is a is a weird term in a vacuum. You're you know more like making something look pretty, capturing audio, and then no one really talks about the editing and all that stuff, but like that's all part of it.

SPEAKER_01 55:37

Okay, there's videographer, then there's a filmmaker, or there's a cinematographer.

SPEAKER_00 55:42

Yeah, a cinematographer that I call myself a video creator because I didn't like the term of error, but then there's also content creator, and so what's the difference between a content creator and a video creator? Or I felt like back in the day it was a video producer, one was a video producer, yeah. Because you're doing all the back-end planning and and all that stuff, and there's editing, there's color grading. Like I've spent so much time learning just how to color grade really well. Yeah, and all these, you know, there's a thousand little jobs uh and all that stuff that we do.

SPEAKER_01 56:11

It's insane.

SPEAKER_00 56:12

Uh but I think, yeah, I think at the end of the day, like the that's why I try and focus so much on just the story, because all that stuff is gonna be, you know, we'll figure it out kind of thing, all come together in editing. We'll have the gear on the day to capture everything. But what really matters is like the story, the like what's in front of the camera being so good, and uh, you know, the technical stuff is almost like the baseline stuff that you need to know nowadays. What a great episode. That was awesome. This was great.

SPEAKER_03 56:39

I feel like we we've kind of gotten to this like rhythm of asking everybody and we haven't asked this yet. It's like what is your why and like why you do what you do.

SPEAKER_00 56:48

I think I think I touched on it earlier. I think whenever there's whenever there's a camera, like I get the front row seat of someone's like very exciting day. And my job to capture that is is so cool. There it's you know, like it's just it's so cool. You get to to meet super cool people, you get to go to super unique spaces at times, whether it's I got to go to like Toronto Island. This was like an assisting job, so it wasn't me at all. But like going to Toronto Island, this was for the bare naked ladies, like album cover, and like walking around like the closed off Toronto um uh amusement park, yeah. But having a guy there who gives us full access to everything, walking around, like and it's just like this is so cool. Like it it's an extremely, extremely lucky position to be in to get access to these things and people and uh and be like their best day kind of thing. Like they're they're so excited for you to be there on the day, they're so excited when you send them the photos at the end, they're something they look back on fondly, and uh it's uh it's an extremely lucky position to be in.

SPEAKER_03 57:59

I love that.

SPEAKER_00 58:00

I love that. Thank you so much for having me. Uh where can people find you? Online, it's uh Owen underscore Mert uh for my personal and then my studio page is uh Oat Studios, but uh but hopefully I'll post more there after this.

SPEAKER_01 58:16

We'll we'll run this back in a year and see where you are with your personal podcast. I'll try. We'll we'll try and do better by then we'll have uh you and Jared on one podcast.

SPEAKER_03 58:25

Yeah, I was gonna say me me, you and Jared on one podcast might be a three hour day thing.

SPEAKER_00 58:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 58:32

I would have to be here to like moderate or see the moving.

SPEAKER_01 58:37

Awesome.