MAD Conversations

The Digital Sound Revolution: How Technology Is Transforming Music in Advertising

• The Adverbe • Season 1 • Episode 8

Share episode

Use Left/Right to seek, Home/End to jump to start or end. Hold shift to jump forward or backward.

0:00 | 1:12:16

The rules of music in advertising have changed. The question is whether brands, agencies, and artists are ready.

In this episode of MAD Conversations, Abeiku Dadson sits down with Eli-Daniel Wilson, a digital strategist and marketing leader whose career has taken him from building one of Ghana's first influencer marketing platforms to leading brand strategy across West Africa at Publicis Groupe.

They go deep on what it really took to launch Whoopro alongside Kelvyn Boy's Black Star album, why that campaign was years ahead of its time, and what it tells us about how music and digital marketing have converged. Eli-Daniel also breaks down the thinking behind the award-winning Mikakrawa campaign for Prudential Bank, how to decide between riding a trending sound and commissioning an original one, and what the rise of AI-generated music means for the advertising industry.

This is not a conversation about theory. It is a conversation about decisions, strategy, and what it means to build something in a market that is still figuring itself out.

 

MAD Conversations

Marketing. Advertising. Digital. Design. Ghana’s commercial creativity - documented.

Enjoyed this episode? Leave a review on Spotify - it helps more people find the show.

Connect with Abeiku:

LinkedIn: /samuel-ad

Follow MAD Conversations:

Instagram: /mad.conversations_

Facebook: /14zri1aebdd

TikTok: /mad.conversations

X: https://x.com/MADConversation

Listen on:

Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/gh/podcast

Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/1M5ojvM

Website: https://adverbemedia.com/shows/mad-co

 

Chapters
 
 0:00 Intro

4:00 Building an influencer marketing platform in the heart of COVID

14:00 Partnering Kelvyn Boy

24:00 Measuring Success

32:00 The Mikakrawa Campaign

41:00 Trending Sounds vs. Original Music

49:00 TikTok-Ready Jingles and the Fight for Attention in a Scrolling World

56:00 AI Is Coming for the Jingle

1:03:00 Brands and Agencies in the Age of AI

1:08:00 Music in Ghanaian Advertising by 2036

 

 

SPEAKER_02

Let's say I like Sakwitz voice, but I want it to make it for me. So I use AI6 voice and then put together a ring of money.

SPEAKER_00

So I use it.

SPEAKER_02

So in that future, what happens to the artist? So when I am running a short or strategize for a short campaign, and there's a sound that is relevant to my campaign, I would lean towards taking advantage of what's got right now. But if I'm running a longer campaign like that, then I need more ownership of what is based. I would have to invest into opposing an original sound, which was in the case of Mika Krama.

SPEAKER_03

AI is coming for the jingle and maybe the entire advertising audio industry.

SPEAKER_02

It would clear you because anybody could come and get something decent to run with.

SPEAKER_03

What's the problem? Thank you for coming. Good to see you. It's been what two years? Yeah, yeah. Well, the last time we saw one in person was a long time ago, but the last time we spoke was about a year ago, somewhere last year. Yeah. And um, I I when I was thinking through like this episode, I didn't think there was no, well, let me not say no one. People might find it off. I thought we were the best person to speak on the topic. Because what we're doing now is we want to speak about the future of music and advertising, um, where it's going with the rise of AI-generated content and all of that. Um, and I want to start with something that I know was very close to your heart. I followed your journey, you know. Yeah. Um, we met the first time we met was in 2017, thereabouts. Um, so almost a decade. And I've been following your journey. No way. It's been very inspiring. Thank you. Uh, you've done so much. You have been documenting your journey, so people know. I've tried, I've tried. I have not, I have not really tried.

SPEAKER_01

Thank you, thank you, thank you for scolding me.

SPEAKER_03

Thank you. But I want to start with the with the WooPro story because um I think it's one of the clearest examples of um music and digital marketing, um, if you like broadly advertising coming together, right, for the first time in Ghana. And um, what I want to know is the story behind it, right? Tell me about the story, tell me everything about it. You were when you were launching, you partnered with Kelvin Boy. Yes. What was it like? How did he even because at the time, Kelvin Boy, it was around the same time that I discovered Kelvin Boy as well at um Carbon, my club. So he was a rising star at the time. How did you even pick him as the one to go with? And what what did it lead to at the time?

SPEAKER_02

Yeah. Oh, you're taking me back. Back, back, back. Yes, yes. Um, WhoPro. So this was in the heart of COVID. And um, as an agency at the time, we were sitting at the intersection of brands making demands for influencers and creators in their campaigns. And then at the same time, we also saw how because of COVID, like I said before we started speaking, that anybody who was dancing during COVID was just harvesting audiences and they were growing and they were looking for ways to monetize it. There were a lot of you know, articles, stories. I mean, people were being open about how much they were making online at the time. So everybody who had any audience is like, how can I make money too? So it's like people that created an appetite for I have an audience, how can I take it to the next step?

SPEAKER_04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

So being an agency and sitting in between these two groups of people, what we decided to do, and to be fair, it was an idea we had incubated a while back, but because COVID came and then shut everybody down, especially traditional marketing, and there was a lot of movement in terms of budgets and in terms of campaigns to digital, it gave us more empathy. Sorry, just to give a bit more context, how long had you incubated the idea for? At the time, I remember the digital agency part of Global MV Alliance, where I was working at the time, and I was leading digital, I was head of digital at the time, and it was burdened, it was growing. We're getting a lot of clients coming, demanding for digital services. And being an innovative person, you're always looking for ways to build on that. So we had incubated this idea. I think the the gentleman who was there before me, the head of digital was there before me, had birthed the idea. Right. And the idea was to build a product around this particular service that is growing, which was influencer marketing. We had done webinars, we were beginning to preach the need for brands to move budgets to influencers, which now come to think of how much it costs to do it. Now, back then it was easy, the reach was vast. You know, you could get a lot of people to do a lot of things for free, even just giving them products was enough to get them to get this going for you. But now they'll send you rate card and contact their manager, they'll tell you to speak to their managers. But back then it was really at its early stage. So being in between these two um intersection of these two groups of audiences, um, we decided to now build a product on top of it. So at the same time, Social Media Week was coming to Ghana, and um, just like any product when you're trying to build any new product goes through the stages, and we wanted to build a beta version of it, test it out, and see uh, is this something that would really work on the markets? Especially if you know how Ghanaians adopt technology, yeah, we are slow adopters. Yeah, it might sound good in the boardroom, you build a fancy UI, but when you hit the market, you will back up.

SPEAKER_03

You feel like you you're a bit errone toys. Yeah, I think that maybe we we let's pause on that a bit. I think the main problem with that is trust, it's not even awareness of the product. I think it's trust, right? Um, in a larger sense, but maybe on another conversation we will talk about it. I'm sure there's a lot of study on it.

SPEAKER_02

And to be fair, it's not just the Ghana problem. The introduction of any new products, there's actual literature on it. There's a curve that's used to describe product adoption. There are always early adopters, yeah, there are innovators who would quickly try it out. There are people who are just open to new technology, and then there's the curve where you get a second wave of adoption, which is bigger, and then there are people that you should just give up on the laggers, they never get to use. Yeah, there are people like that. So um, considering that, and just to go through the proper process of building a product, we decided to build a beta version. Or should I even call it an alpha version? Because it was literally the first one. It was the first one we built, and then we took a stand at Social Media Week, and really what we wanted to do was to validate the idea. So we're there, we're speaking to creators came around, um, agency people came around, brands, clients, you know, brand managers, marketing managers came around. We engaged them, they were asking questions. Everybody thought it was interesting. They were like, wait, so you mean I could just sign up and be exposed to opportunities like campaigns and get paid off of the platform? Hmm, tell me more. And then brands, too, at the time who didn't understand the space, were like, wait, so now I get visibility on my campaign, I get to choose who I want, I go behind their numbers and see whether indeed they are good fit. Wait, tell me more. So we got that feedback that just gave us validation that there's an opportunity here. So we went back to now properly build the product. And I remember the first time we went to activate the product wasn't ready, man.

SPEAKER_01

I I remember people trying to make a post from the platform, and then there's an error like, no, I will take it now, but we'll send you another link.

SPEAKER_02

We'll send you another link, we'll troubleshoot it. But that's what we're expecting. But truly, what we wanted to get out of it was is this a real opportunity as we've imagined it in the boardroom? You know, we we brainstormed into it and we felt really strongly about it, but we wanted market validation for it. So after the social media week and we came back, we did a report, it was clear, overwhelmingly clear that there's an opportunity here, there's a demand for brands wanting more visibility over their campaigns. Creators are looking for ways to monetize their audience. If they could find a way to do it, they would clutch onto it. So we're driven by that to go ahead and build the product. So that was really the background to WooPro as you know it. But why music? I mean, I I would get to the launch. Okay, I'll get to the launch. So maybe let's go into that. So um now we've built the product, and we're looking at how to launch this product in a way that would give us a big bang. Because in the heat of COVID, and this is what we're going against, there was a lot of online engagement at the time. Everybody was online, every other day there's an IG live, every other day there's a webinar. So the the fight for consumer attention at the time was peak. Yeah. So for you to cut through that noise to have a campaign that would resonate, and especially a product launch, we needed to come up with something that would really cut through the noise. And what we thought about, and what would also was a good example of how to use the tool, was for artists or music marketers or music executives who wanted to roll out music. And in fact, I'm come to think I'm really proud of that campaign because what we see now is having people dance with the song to promote the song. It was that idea we had back then, 2021, where we're thinking if you want people to discover your song, you want creators to post about it. At the time, the platform still had enabled features where if you post um a picture or if you post content, you could overlay it with music, right, on the platform. Yeah, so one of the ways to organically get your music penetrating for people to discover is to have creators use it. Bro, you were way ahead of your time.

SPEAKER_01

So that was the thinking.

SPEAKER_02

That was the thinking. And um, because of our affiliation with YFM at the time, we were just leveraging, and this is a philosophy I have that in life, use all that you have to get what you want. Of course. So we looked around and like, where can we get leverage to launch this product? So we leaned on our sister um company YFM at the time, but then again, we still wanted to find a good mix of an artist that was fresh, that was young, that would really appeal to young people who have the energy to match the product that we're really going to put out. And so the timing matched where um Kelvin Boy was putting out an album, uh, the Black Star album. Yeah. And by the way, I'm a big fan of Kelvin Boy. So maybe in the room I was biased. I was like, yeah, yeah, let's use him. Let's use him. So he was putting our album, and um, we invited him and his team over, and we did a whole presentation to him, where we presented what this tool could do. And um, so our proposition to him was this is really going to be a campaign that could really define the aptic of the album as well, because we're also launching, we're putting a lot of efforts behind this launch, and with this collaboration, it could potentially be a win-win where he becomes a case study of what artists could do to really launch their music. So that was how we presented the launch or idea to him that you're putting out an album, you're you're fresh, you're young, you've got the energy. This is all our marketing plans, this is how we want to launch it. However, we want to launch with a campaign with you, which is the Black Star campaign. So the album was called Black Star Album. So what we did was we aggregated a number of creators and influencers onto the platform. Because it was the launch, I think I remember it was like calling free money, but pretty much we had invested to have people really, you know, join the campaign, post about the album, and then get people to discover it. What we also wanted to get out of that launch was the learning and the insights that indeed this is something that could become a way of launching product, a way of launching your music, rolling out content. So we did that partnership together. I and I'm so happy that we're open to it. They could have easily gone with traditional ways of doing things. They had every reason to go traditional. Yeah, they were taking a big bet on us. So I think um when you're surrounded with people who are open-minded, and I remember it was Black CD. Black CD was Kelvin Boyce's manager at the time, very, very open-minded guy, and he was very forward-looking. So, a good conversation with CD and his team, and they said, you know what, they see the opportunity of having you know people talk about the album, listen to it, share it via our platform. They would also be interested in seeing the reports of how far this thing goes. So it wasn't just they taking a free ride to getting their album out, they were actually invested in how this thing performs. So it was still in the heart of COVID, and uh we did the launch virtually. So we we we got in a studio, we orchestrated the entire launch, virtually recorded it, and then we streamed it as the big launch. There was a whole campaign around it, the countdown. And I remember the night of launch, bro. The nerves, you've got to take somebody's album launch, and you're about to go.

SPEAKER_01

You have to make it work, you have to make it work.

SPEAKER_03

It had to work, it had to work. So, what would success look like here? And the album was crazy because it was such a good album, if yeah, it was such a good album, it was a great album, it was a really good album. His team couldn't afford to like you said, it was a big bet that they it was a big bet.

SPEAKER_02

They could have gone with the video launch, yeah, they could have gone with um the usual launch, have an event, you know, listening session, do all those things. But exactly.

SPEAKER_03

But in your head, what was success looking like to you as the team leader at the time? What were the indicators that you're looking out for to say, okay, we achieved ABC, so we're successful. And did you see that?

SPEAKER_02

So success for us as WoPro as a platform at the time was to drive curiosity, which is we wanted to see downloads. In fact, before we even see downloads, we wanted to see traffic on our website, we traffic on our social, we want to see traffic on the app in the app store, just to see that people are curious enough to just say what is this platform? We understand it's it's Novelle, and um it's not um, it was one of its kind. I could say that it was the first influencer marketing platform in the country, especially Ghanaian-owned. Yeah, so at the time it was a Novelle product that's you know, if you did not know it, you did not know it, you wouldn't care for it. So we really wanted to get with measuring interest and you know, signals of okay, curiosity. Yeah, people browsing the page, are people asking questions? For the artists, what success we're looking for is to see you know the stream numbers going up because what we're pushing at the time was is you know the download links to the album. So all the content creators are posted the links.

SPEAKER_03

So you your team at WooPro where you were looking at success as sorry, um, curiosity as an indicator. Is it because of the insight you wanted to draw mainly? Yes, that was it.

SPEAKER_02

We we are very we're very honest with ourselves, right? And granted, we had ambitions of you know having I think we had like 10,000 downloads that we're gonna hit. Um, and the night we saw the app trending in the Google App Store. And to be honest, that was a big win for us. I still have that screenshot. The trending app on the day of the WooPro launch in Google app in Ghana, and the app store was WooPro. So that was a big mark that indeed the detraction and the launch idea had brought in interest. And I think we hit about 50% of our ambitious targets that night, which further gave it, you know, like validation that people went ahead to download the app to now figure out and try it out. So we had the Black Star campaign on there. Anybody who saw the launch could join it. Yeah, you the moment you join, we accept you, and then you could also post and earn some money because we wanted to just validate it for people that this is here to stay. You have an audience of 20,000, 30,000. You can now just simply with this tool find ways of monetizing that audience that you have. So for us, we're heavy on data and analytics. We wanted to see how far this thing would go, how many downloads um Kelvin Boy would get with this album. And I think we we saw really great traction from that side as well. Yeah, tell us about that in detail. What was it like? What were the numbers like?

SPEAKER_03

The team was happy about the launch because when you say the team, you mean Kelvin Boy's team?

SPEAKER_02

Kelvin Boy's team, Black City and the team, they were happy about the launch because they saw organically people posting about it. The idea of the launch was fresh because I mean the entire creatives and the entire campaign around it was centered around the Black Star album of Kelvin Boy. So, on one hand, we are pushing new music, on one hand, we're like, who are these guys with this platform? So it was a win-win for both of us. We were happy because we saw how the app was trending, and then on the other side, too, they saw traction in terms of streams and downloads of the album. I don't know, I think it's one of his most successful albums. In in the country, right? No, Coven Boys Project.

SPEAKER_03

Coven Boys Project has one of his most successful projects. Well, since then he has not well an album since then, no? Yeah, but I I don't think he's had that much traction at the time due to so many other reasons. Well thinking about the trajectory, um, I I think that usually, like you're saying, um Calvin Boy and his team, they could have gone the traditional way. Um but the tables were turned this time around. You went to them, so they could have they were putting out music, they could have used all the traditional means to market the product, promote it, and all of that. Sorry, the song, when I say the product, the song. But you came up with something real, which was using the marketing tools at the time, which specifically influencer marketing, right? To help them push the music. Usually advertisers in our space, we have a product, we go to the artist and we tell them we want you to use your music to push this for us. But this time around, you're going to there telling them we know you have a product, we have a platform that we can help you promote it. So you're not going to use your music to help us promote our platform per se, but we are going to use our platform. I am very curious about the thoughts behind it, like the design thinking behind it right from the start. I mean, you've spoken a bit about a lot about how influencer marketing at the time was virgin and all of that. But I want when you sat down to think about it, you said your predecessor at the time had kind of conceptualized it. It's called Kwabna. When you took over the project, what was the conviction like for you personally? That because you owned the project so much so that today, if I spoke to anybody, listen, I probably suppose I was the founder of the project. Exactly. I'm sure people are watching this and I or listening, they're like, ah, so he's not a founder lead.

SPEAKER_01

He's not a founder. By the way, he's just a project lead.

SPEAKER_03

He was a project lead because the product was owned by Global Media Lions. Yes, yes. Um, and he wasn't he he had a boss. I was an employee. I I I I I know his boss. So he he wasn't the founder, but he you owned it so much. So, what was the conviction for you that made you say, This is it?

SPEAKER_02

I think it comes from my personal philosophy of if you really want to do something great, you have to own it. Like you have to be proud of it to really give it your best. So it's generally my approach to anything I'm associated or involved with. I I just take extreme ownership of things, which means the success is celebrated, the failure is personal. So, in that case, it doesn't matter that it is not owned by me, but the fact that I'm the on the project, I take full ownership of it. So that's where it began, where I felt like this is a project that could really define the marketing landscape as we have it in Ghana. And also, like I said, I was in the agency, I've been doing influencer marketing from time. I saw the struggle of getting a client to part with 1,000 cities to give to someone with an audience to post. They're like, why should I pay anybody money to do it? So this tool was going to really take off the veil in the sense that now there'll be visibility. You see the numbers, it's not just we're posting, we're sending those screenshots. We don't know whether it's true or not. This time you have visibility, you have control.

SPEAKER_03

Did they have control to the back end? The the team, Calvin Boyce team.

SPEAKER_02

Yes. So if you have admin access to the campaign dashboard, you would see how far reaching the campaign is going.

SPEAKER_03

So nobody goes to manufacture numbers for you. You see them.

SPEAKER_02

This is this is straight up real time. And that was really the value proposition, right? Wow. We said, and I understand there was pushback from agencies because the agency model and how agencies make money is in the gray area, which is they deal with the the creator or influencer, and then they tell they charge the client X amounts, and then their money making is in the margins, right? So agencies thrived in the gray area, but this tool was going to blow all of that open where you now you can. And see how much the person is being paid per post. You see how far reaching the post goes. So if you feel like you're not getting value for money, you could end the campaign. So it was putting a lot of power in the hands of brands, or in the case where agencies want to use it, it puts a lot of power in their hands to really have control and visibility over the case.

SPEAKER_03

It was very disruptive, yeah.

SPEAKER_02

It was, it was. And back to my point about product adoption. Just like how I've described it, it makes sense. And it's in everything, it should work, right? Maybe we have a conversation about how products should be marketed. Should be marketed exactly.

SPEAKER_03

Product adoption. You're gonna come back on product adoption, it's another topic. You you've worked in the agency.

SPEAKER_02

I'm gonna come back to how this was way ahead of its time because now we see that there are a lot of tools now, by the way.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, but it's specifically with TikTok. Now we see that artists um are not artists' music. I discovered a lot of songs on TikTok. A lot there recently there was this song, I've forgotten, but there was this song recently. I it was just recently that someone mentioned the artist's name. Um, the name starts with O S and there's an O inside with something Stromy. No, not Stromy. Stromy is the French artist. This is an a Nigerian artist, very interesting name. I I'll find it. But this is the guy who did Venice. Yeah, he has this very trendy out of outsound.

SPEAKER_02

I think he's the same guy we're talking about.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, but I discovered a lot of songs on TikTok. Right. Um, people dance, people now have dance challenges to songs, like before this they release a song, they meet with uh the dance. The dancers they create the dance challenge before they release a song. You had this thing, it I think what you did with Woopro at the time is what we are seeing now. 100%, right? We'll come to that in detail, but before we come to that, I want to speak to you on your time. You have worked at the agencies quite recently at Publicist Group, right? Um, leading um e-business across the region, the Africa region. Yes, big man. Oh titles, but you're not just that, you're you don't what I know about you is you don't just occupy the the office, you actually do work. So, what I want to know is did you ever work with any clients that you had to use music doing um promoting or advertising or marketing their products like music and using jingles to promote any product at the time, right? From I know you were predominantly doing sales during pause, yeah. Uh but strategy, I mean strategy, exactly. Uh yeah, it's coming back. So if you're doing sales, you you pitch strategy, right? So were there moments where you had to pitch using music in campaigns? And did it did it come through?

SPEAKER_02

I'll give you one example that I'm really proud of, also. Um, I don't know if you saw the campaign with Prudential Bank Mekakrawa. I saw that. Yes, that's one campaign. It was it's an award-winning campaign, it's fetched a lot of awards. Um, so that campaign also, we decided to use music. Maybe I didn't realize how much I love music and I use it in my strategies, but we actually crafted a song. We composed the song with Kula to compose an original sound because truly, if you want to connect with people, and it was a mass market campaign. We wanted something catchy, something that could travel without us spending a lot of media budget. So we composed a really, really catchy song for the entire campaign and the product, Make a Krawa. So that also, just like you said, even producing the song wasn't just where we stopped. We thought through how to distribute the song. So we published it on DSPs. Just so somebody who loves the song says, I want to listen to it, you could get it on YouTube, you can get it on Spotify, you could get on Audiomark, you could get it on GoPlay. And then we also had were intentional about the creators we used for the campaign. So we composed the song, found creators, we used Afonita for that campaign. She also choreographed like a dance routine that would go with it. So we're doing an end-to-end campaign where we wanted to compose a song and activate the song with the city.

SPEAKER_03

You did market activations with it as well.

SPEAKER_02

Yes. So we used official starter, Afonita, and then a DWP dance group to craft a choreography that would further get the song to penetrate. It's the same thinking. Music travels in ways that you know it penetrates culture, right? So the song was done in pigeon and tree, yeah, and we made it danceable, and then we added a dance challenge on top of it. Because we're already thinking of how we can engineer a UGC campaign that would have others also join in the campaign to dance with it, and then the brand would just travel through all the TikTok videos you see. We just want the campaign and the music and the dance to just travel and penetrate. So that was the thinking we had in crafting that strategy for Mikakrawa. And no wonder, I mean, it didn't do a lot of numbers on stream. And then we saw how when the dancers also used it for their content, it just picked up a lot of numbers. So in crafting that song, even we made sure that um the copyrights were given, we owned it to give it back to the brand because it's something that they can definitely use again as so long as the product lives.

SPEAKER_03

But they didn't land with the with the market the the audience. I you I think your target audience are the time. Did they embrace it? The market women, because I saw you doing a lot of market activation.

SPEAKER_02

We did a lot of market activation. So when we hit the markets, that's the one song we keep playing, and we wanted the make a crawa crawa to really catch people. So when you listen to the song, long after we've activated and left, oh and I was out to make a crawa, make a crawa. Because we wanted to connect to people on that on that level. So, to your point about music marketing, it's it's integral to how we consume media, all right? It's it's why when you see a lot of content these days, they feel the need to overlay it with some sound. Yeah, funny, or should I say, comedy content creators have this sound they use because somehow that sticks more than even after you've laughed, you know. There's this funny one that you always hear. Oh, I can't say it, it's it's hilarious. I can't make the sound there, it's ridiculous. It's ridiculous, you know, it's like those sounds stick with you. And there's something we we I learned, which is conditional learning. Over time, you can you connect that sound to what's funny. So even when the content is not funny, when you hear that sound, you giggle. You've been conditioned. That's true. You've been conditioned to associate that sound with humor and laughter. Yeah, so even when they are doing this content and it's not funny, yeah. So long as they keep using that sound, yeah, it would trigger a reaction from you. That's true. I don't even know that's what they're doing, but that's what is happening. It's conditional learning.

SPEAKER_03

I think that's what's happening. I think they do because there's there's this guy, this creator, I've forgotten his name. I would I would have mentioned his name, but he used to work, he used to be with Upuku Billson, them, so I think he's still with him. And every time at the end of his, I think he lands the punchline at the end of the skit, and then he brings in there's this video of Shalmin the God and his crew laughing in the studio. And the guy like that. Every single time he ends his video with that. And even when the the punchline he's landed at the end is not so funny, that video will still trigger something. So you're right, you're right about that. Let me we we're again on this see in this season, we are talking about music and advertising specifically, and I want to you have used you've you've you've led a brand to create sound, right? Usually brands would go for trendy sound to push their product, right? You took a big bet to create sound from scratch. We've seen brands do that, we've seen Ashbone do it before, we've seen quite a number of brands do it. By the way, uh there are there are episodes that we will talk about this ones, but I I want to I want you to talk to me about using trending songs as against creating songs to make it trendy because I think Mekakra was trendy. Um I I moved on from it because I didn't for some I didn't feel like I was a target, so but anytime I saw I was following my bigger insurance anytime I see Afronita's um content, yeah, I watch it because first of all, this the song is trendy. Afonita, I like her content, I like the way she danced, I would watch it. So it to me it was trendy, it trended for a period, it happened and then yeah, exactly four or five months. But at some point, I just moved on, so I wasn't watching, paying a lot of time attention to it. So my TikTok algorithm just refreshed or something. But tell me about it, why the bits you because you used Kula. Kula is uh in my opinion, I think one of the best producers in this country.

SPEAKER_02

Imagine my shock when he came out as headless YouTuber. I called him, I was like, you called him.

SPEAKER_01

No, that that was that was really interesting. Is that YouTube paid him?

SPEAKER_03

Is that he had this account? Yeah, he had this account.

SPEAKER_02

I was like, congratulations, because I mean I think it's it's brilliant for you to pay with it.

SPEAKER_03

But he's also he's he's the he's the up up and coming artist producer, like he's he's done so much for most of these artists, big artists that we all don't know, people don't know, they don't know, but you took the bet on cooler to create a new sound for you when you could have just probably just gone to um uh another producer who's already done something big and you can take that big thing or trendy thing and then write on. Why did you decide to do that?

SPEAKER_02

That's a really good question. Um, it comes down to strategy sometimes. I'll give you an example. If I am I I'm a strategist, so I think that way a lot of times. So if I'm running a short campaign, it's a quick fire campaign that's you know, perhaps I'm just pushing a seasonal, let's say I'm running a Black Friday campaign or a Mathers Day campaign, a campaign that won't live for too long. It brings in the question of investment. Is it really worth it to spend X amount in getting an original sound? But also, if you want to really tap into what's trendy, you should also surrender to the fact that you have no control or ownership of it, right? So, especially on TikTok, if there's a sound trending, which is what I've seen happen a lot of times, and TikTok is very interesting where they can take your song and remix it, make it faster, make it slower. Yeah, they just mess with the song and you have to allow it. Like you have to allow it because that's what the platform is working with. So if you're tapping into that, you should surrender to the fact that you have no ownership of it and the fact that when the platform moves on from it, it's no longer hot. So when I am running a short or strategizing for a short campaign, and there's a sound that is relevant to my campaign, I would lean towards taking advantage of what's hot right now. Because the the Herculean task of having your own composed song, one, there's the risk of it is new, you don't know whether it's gonna land. Yeah, you can test it as much as you want, but ultimately the market will tell you whether it is hot or not. There is that risk of you know doing your own song, running the campaign, and it's not being catchy, versus doing tapping into an existing trend and then getting creators to just carry your brand and dance with it. For instance, Kiva would do a campaign, the guy was organically started doing the tuba tuba tuba lean in. There's no need for you to go create a new sound to try and start another trend. It's not it, it doesn't work because the platform was already running with one that was already connected with your brand. So, coming from strategy, if it's a short campaign, like I said, I would most likely pivot to working with what is hot because it saves me budget. And I also see easy wins, low-hanging fruits, get my creators, work with my product, tap into it, and let me get the visibility I want. But if I'm running a longer campaign or a brand campaign, that I need more ownership of what is being said. Perhaps I want to own, like the point I made about conditional learning. Yeah, I want to really own the sound so that when you hear it, you think about my brand. Then I think it's I would perhaps invest into composing an original sound, which was in the case of Mikakrawa.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

Because it's a product that would outlive the quickfire six-month campaign we were running. So it was a product or it was an asset that the brand can use in different ways, even play in their offices. Every time they want to activate the product, they have that asset to work with. So I'm answering this in a way like I would typically do when I'm sitting behind the deck and I'm preparing and I'm making a case for why clients should lean here. So if it's a short campaign and it's Mother's Day, sweet mother is hot. You don't need to go now try and you know create a new one. But you you can also create something new and I'll give you an example for that. There's one campaign I'm super proud of that happened last December, just this Christmas. And um, my colleagues and friends are publishers pulled it off. Um, the campaign is Taste of Christmas. Okay, so I mean, I had left at the time and I was just following the campaign, and what they did was um, I don't even know Kinmadi. Kinmadi, Nigeria, um, American love, where are the Gen Z's?

SPEAKER_01

Oh, Sam, you're just showing right now.

SPEAKER_02

But she's she's young, she's hot. Um oh, you know her song. American Love, baby nigga. Oh god, my voice terrible. But what they did with her, what they did with her was they reimagined this Christmas song, 12 Days of Christmas, and then they they they literally changed the lyrics to on the 12 days of Christmas, and then they brought in, you know, like local dishes, and it's so humorous, it's catchy, and they wanted to connect with young people. I was just following as like tick, tick, tick. I know 12 days of Christmas, it remakes it, I find it interesting, and now you're telling me about how you can use it with different meals because it's Maggie, it's a food brand, and you're using an artist that connects with young people. For me, I just found it very pretty. And I saw the numbers, it was doing millions of views. Wow, it was written as one of the best campaigns in December. I was following the vlogs, I was like, that's insights meeting execution, yeah. Right, yeah, and we executed the same. I'm saying they executed the same thing with um Cina Soul in Ghana, similar idea. She also remixed 12 Days of Christmas with um our local dishes. And that's to answer your question about when to lean in on doing your original song or you know, tapping into a trend. Yeah. Now, what they did was they merged an original sound or original lyrics to an existing classic song to just create nostalgia and at the same time exciting you with something new. So, just thinking as a strategist, we never probably would answer with a straight yes or no, because you need to be mindful of the timing, the nuance of the time, the cultural relevance is super, super important. The audience you're trying to mesmerze, you need to know them. But this is something that would land with them. Yeah, so this framework in your head makes it difficult for you to say, oh, I'm just always going to compose an original song, or I'll just always lean on trending songs. It just doesn't work that way.

SPEAKER_03

That's a very classic marketing response. Um, I have this joke, running joke, where I tell people that as a marketer, every every answer starts with it depends. It has to depend, though.

SPEAKER_01

Like it has you know, when you're doing a strategy, you start from data inside because you want to validate the the the wild things you're about to say. What if about the wild things you're gonna say? Let me prepare you.

SPEAKER_03

So you can't yeah, one other thing that the when you were talking me through the Mikey thing, well, I don't know, Kin Madi. Um my my age is showing right now, but I'm I'm proud of my age. But what I do remember is a classic example is um club beer using Usibisa's Afield Patapa, right? That was also classic because it took an original, they put a low spin on it. It was for at the time, well, I guess at the time, the young and vibrant audience at the time. There's this concept that I chanced on. Um basically you call it TikTok ready jingles. Brands are now producing TikTok ready jingles where the first five to seven seconds of the of the TikTok, sorry, of the sound is created to serve as a hook, right? To pull audiences in. Is that something that you've experimented with?

SPEAKER_02

I think that's something that anybody creating content today needs to be mindful of. In that the fight for attention is it's it's a lot more keener than it's ever been. In fact, um, now Netflix came out to say that they are writing their movies by repeating the plot because they recognize people always on their phones whilst watching. So the big question is how do I keep people stuck to my content? Right. So the five seconds, it could be five seconds, it could be ten seconds. The point is, how do I keep people stuck to my content? So you're dealing with a consumer who is scrolling past a lot, who is bombarded with a lot of content. They're using a device that gets lots of notifications. Pretty much their attention is being demanded on different places. So you want to hook this person as quickly as possible. And there's data to prove that attention span has keeps dwindling because people just get tuned out to long-form content, which is why you would find a lot of people want to give you the information in the first five seconds, and that is where creativity is required. That is where AI still can't hack because you need creativity to be able to say that thing in that few seconds together. People say, I want to watch the rest of it. And it's even happening in long-form content. And when I heard that, when I saw the Netflix news, I'm like, I am guilty. I was watching um the new movie with Matt Damon and um um what's his name?

SPEAKER_03

They were on Jorogan's podcast, yes, yes, talking about this thing. Exactly.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, when I was watching, I was like, I forgot his name. I felt so guilty. I was like, yeah, right, because it took me like three or four working days to finish the movie. Exactly.

SPEAKER_02

So if I'm coming on day two, maybe I've forgotten the plot. So you need to perhaps hint it again and let me get ah, so this is what's happening. And this is not a long, this is like standard movie length, and this is happening. So it is not just um brands having to struggle to get people to hook onto long-form content, they have to find ways of keeping people engaged. So I'm answering this to say that it is not peculiar or reserved for brands just always looking for attention. Anyone creating content has to now think deeply on how to get people stuck on their content, even artists to doing their regular music.

SPEAKER_03

So if this was 2017 and you're 2021 and you're speaking to Kelvin Boyd, this you're going to let's say this was 2026, you know, or this is 2026. You're uh this is the trend now. You're about to launch WooPro. Let's just say all of this TikTok trend and nothing, but there is this part of it where people are hooking on to the few seconds of you're going to tell what I how are you going to assess this? Is out of the concept, but how are you going to assess?

SPEAKER_01

I would have called Dance God Lloyd. Come to the office. Let's cook it. Let's cook. So you saw what happened with Down Flat. I did. That song was good on its own.

SPEAKER_02

It's a brilliant record on its own. But what engineered the blow-up was the choreography.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah. And I think that I don't know. I don't I don't have the numbers, so I but I think that was that sets the tone for all of the other hit songs that came after that. Most of them were doing dance challenges.

SPEAKER_02

I I think I even want to, I don't know who to give the credit to, but one person who owns it is Mr. Drew. The moment he's dropping a song, it is coming with the dance.

SPEAKER_01

That guy is a he's a dancer, he's a dancer, so he's leading to it. The song is coming with the dance already. Only if the boy has done really well with that. Yes, yes. Kiddie is not much of a dancer, but I've seen that leading to dance dance, yeah.

SPEAKER_03

There is this trend in Nigeria. I mean, uh recently, um, when Annie Kulako, the second one, came up, the Kunli, the director, yes, there was this conversation around producers uh dancing to promote their movies. And I'm like, what was it? Do you see what's happening there? The OGs are against it, yeah.

SPEAKER_02

But I I I don't get it. What's the problem? To be fair, I I've done a campaign for this show on Aquaba Magic. That's yes, one of the ways we wanted to make the show interesting for people was we invited the cast to the studio at the time of pause. We invited the cast to the studio and we were playing fun games with them because you know you want to find ways of again, you want to catch your audience's attention. So we wanted to project the personalities of the cast members, and then by watching that fun 30 second video, you're like, ah, what are they talking about? Let me go check out the movie. So it's now side content to bring you back to the major content we want you to watch. I I I saw I've seen the arguments going on, and it is coming from a place of I need attention, I need people to watch my video. Watch my movie. Dancing is what's getting the attention, too. I want to dance, right?

SPEAKER_01

But the OGs are not used to it. It's like, why do I have to dance to get you to watch my movie? Like, it's it's just, I think it's a generational clash.

SPEAKER_03

I guess. You spoke about AI-generated content. I want us to dig deeper in there slightly. Um, you know, the former MasterCard uh CMO, he he made an assertion. Um, and I'm I'm going to try and read it out. He said that AI is coming for the jingle. Well, Billboard wrote a whole article about it, and that's the title. It said, AI is coming for the jingle, and maybe the entire advertising audio industry. Before I ask you any further question, what do you think about this? If you saw this headline, you had scrolling through your feed and you saw this headline. Who said this? Uh this was this was written by it was an article written by Billboard, but it came from um Mastercast's former CEO, who actually started his career out in music. Okay. Right. And he he bowed out somewhere last year. But he said something in which I'm going to speak to you, but I want I want to get your take on the headline. Right. Because Billboard said AI is coming for the jingle and maybe the entire audio advertising audio industry.

SPEAKER_02

I mean, I I disagree because what I've also noticed about the comments on on the impact of AI is it's it's like there's no middle ground to that they are painting a very extremist picture where it's like it kills everybody or it kills an industry, or people who are really skeptical and think they are still going to be relevant. I think there's a middle ground to this because jingle is not just the production of it. If you want to get a jingle that would really work, you're looking at the script, you're looking at the cultural relevance, you're looking at nuances that could really help you connect with your audience with that jingle. You're looking at the right voice to use, right? Because when you sit in a creative process and you see the process it goes through to even land on the voice, it's not just, oh, you have a deep voice. So it's the thinking, would a deep voice sell this? Would a lady's voice do this better? So that thinking, yes, there may be data to support why you should use X or Y voice, but I've sat in creative processes where it just comes from a place where you've you have a lived experience and then you take that creative bet and then it works. I do not think it would kill it, I think it would definitely knock out the lower end of jingles, which is those who are not doing the hard work of being creative with their jingle. It would it would clear you because anybody could prompt and get something decent to run with. But the bigger brands that demand creative excellence, they would not surrender all of this to AI, they would still require that human touch to bring it to life. So I don't think it would wipe it out as is painted its doomsday. Yeah, I don't think so.

SPEAKER_03

You know, usually these headlines are clickbaits, but you got it right because, like I said, I was going to read what Raja said. So Raja said that AI can create variations of our Sonic brand very, very well because and he said this on the backdrop that um they spent two years creating their sonic brand, yeah, where they hired composers, musicologists, neuroscientists, actually, um, to produce that sonic brand. But before doing that, they tested AI. They tested out AI, and what they found is this AI could create variations of their of our Sonic brand very well, but it couldn't create the original Sonic brand. That had to come from human beings, right? So before they even brought in all these musicologists and all of these people, they said, okay, AI is a thing, let's try it out and see. And he's saying that it couldn't, it could not create it, right? But AI is everywhere now, like you're saying, anybody could prompt and it would give something that produced that you can do.

SPEAKER_02

I used it for a presentation. I had a class presentation some time ago, and then we're supposed to present a campaign idea. Leaned on AI to even create a sample ad, a sample jingle. It was decent for the class exercise. But if you had if you needed me to actually run this campaign, I am not going to market with that, right? So I'm saying the lower end and for those who do not want to pay, like who want to invest into proper production of you know, quality jingle that would really sell. Yes, AI could definitely deliver what they are delivering on the market.

SPEAKER_03

So for me, I'm looking at the AI can't create that culturally um cultural sounds that really resonate or culturally resonating sounds, but it's happening, people are using it. How are brands positioning themselves for it? In recent times, let me go out of our industry uh a little bit. KPMG has come out several times. They've been their consultants have been caught using AI and all of that. And in Ghana, in a country where we barely have data to make decisions, it's very troubling for me. In this episode, we are speaking about the future of music and advertising. Um, maybe on on a different day, we speak about the future of advertising in general. Today we want to focus on music and advertising, but I am extremely worried because already we are seeing a sharp decline in the quality of our advertisements in the country over the years. Maybe it's nostalgia, yeah. But truly, when we compare some of the very old jingles to what we are seeing now, it's not that great. There's a huge gap. Now, AI is coming, or AI is here. A lot or a lot more people are going to get away. There's a lot more junk exactly. Expected, it's expected, and I am worried because it threatens our creativity in this country. It does. Generally, advertising as we see it. Recently, I was going through um some of the old arts. I was showing our video producer some of the old arts, Hanikuchi Kuchi, that was done by Tigo at the time. Those were some clouds. That's something AI can't create. MTN's launch campaign for classic. Some of these arts, but now we are seeing a sharp decline in this creativity. And AI say, I am worried. From where you sit, all of the work you've done all these years, looking at the future we are getting into. How do you think the industry should position itself? Brands, client, advertisers, agencies. How what should we do?

SPEAKER_02

I would say we shouldn't surrender to AI when I'm speaking to agencies. It is easy, right? Especially if you've worked in agency, you know the pressure is crazy. Yeah. And you're trying to chasing deadlines. Yes, you're chasing deadlines all the time. And I am all for AI. I mean, I use AI. AI is like my, and I always say co-pilot is the best definition I have for AI because it's literally my co-pilot. Yeah, it accelerates things that I want to do.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

Now, when you write a script and then an AI writer script, both of us could look at it. But the typical copywriter will look at it and find a lot of problems with it. But if you're not a copywriter, it would suffice for you and you pass it over as a decent script. So I say agency shouldn't surrender to it in that you now no longer want to do the deep thinking, spending, finding inspiration, doing the hard work of finding that Iraqa moment where you know you've gotten the right word to say the right thing. And then you just pivot to AI to quickly put something together because you're trying to get your deadline hit. So we don't need to surrender to it, but we should use it as an accelerator to make us work faster. When people are putting up mood boards for TVC campaigns or a short video campaign, they lean on AI to do it, and that's a good way to use AI. So it can quickly help you visualize some of the things you want to do, and then you can present that. But you do not want to now surrender and start going to Hicksfield using all these AI video tools to now create the entire thing. When you do that now, you're beginning to really surrender a lot of creative power to AI. So for agencies, we need to fight the battle of not surrendering our creative juice and our creative thinking to AI entirely, but we should use it as an accelerator, as a tester, as a data point to find ideas. But like I said, when an idea is presented to you, a creative director will look at it and say, uh-uh, it's not good. But anybody who wants to just pass it over as good work will see it and be impressed with it. And I've seen that those who are using AI in that manner, it's like 50-50. AI gives it to me and I give it back more work to do because it is not there yet. But those who surrender to it, the first output you get is like, I'm good to go. So those are the people who put a lot of junk on the market. But those who go two, three, four prompts deeper because they know what they want and they know what they want to get to. They are the ones who wouldn't surrender creativity to it. For brands, unfortunately, they are businesses. They're looking for ways to get operational excellence. Any other, any technology that brings that is welcome. They're looking for ways to maximize profit. Anything that brings that, they would listen. They're looking for ways to reduce costs. And it's just, it's not personal, it's business. So if they are able to invest in a tool that can do what an agency is doing on the other side, they would stop paying that retainer and do it in-house. So that impact hits the agency, but for the brand, especially an agency that wasn't delivering excellent value, they will tell you I can prompt and get what you are giving me. You are not giving me value ideals, bye-bye. So, brands, we should expect that from them. The bigger brands are investing heavily in AI infrastructure. Um, I was just watching, I was following the news, and Goldman Sachs is now partnering with Anthropic Claude to train. So, and I I made this prediction. I made this prediction that consulting firms will become software companies because they are sitting on world of data. So when I saw Goldman Sachs, you know, partnering with Anthropic to train and get, see, that tool will be special. It's unfortunately going to knock a lot of people out of jobs because it can sweep it clean. Yeah, right. So I'm speaking from the brands and business side where they are also investing into AI infrastructure in ways to maximize profits, reduce cost, and just ensure operational efficiency and operational excellence in what they do. So the more they do that, service providers would also have to adjust their model to now provide services that would meet those needs. And the service I see happening, especially for service providers, is now you have to come with either a creative plan or something that would like you would manage agents for the brand, right? So it's like you recognize they have AI tools. How can you now use those AI tools to deliver the value you previously would have used manpower to do? So everybody needs to change their model. As for the businesses, they are very cutthroats. I'm sure you've seen a lot of layoffs happening.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

And if you follow the news, it's very interesting. You first of all see news of this company has invested $100 million into AI. Fast forward 12 months later, 10,000 layoffs. So it's like it's a pattern. Yeah. I saw this long list of, and of course, we're the biggest companies. I saw this long list, and the pattern was clear. There was news of them, you know, investing heavily in AI into their business. Fast forward six months, 12 months down the line, there's an announcement of a layoff. So it is happening. I was listening to the CEO of NVIDIA as well, and he says, Why are you learning Python, which is a coding language? Why are you learning this now? Because in the future of writing programs, it is language, literally English. You telling the AI AI what to do, and it will go to work and develop it. The difference there would also be do you know what a good code looks like? So if it comes back and gives you junk, are you able to tell? Yeah. So I do not fully agree to don't learn it. You need to learn it, you need to learn the framework, you need to learn the structure. So that in the case where the AI is going crazy, you can prompt it back to give you what you want. Exactly. So the biggest winners of AI would be those who know their stuff. So those who think I don't need to learn anymore because AI would do you are not you're not using AI well. I've never given a tax to AI to write strategy for me, and then I thought it was on point ever. Never. Because ever, never. It's never gotten it for me.

SPEAKER_03

They have this small note in the chat box that says that AI makes me speak, that please. So yeah, you're right. You need to know your stuff to really get. Especially the basics of it. You need to know the basics. Because even if you're prompting AI to write your press release, I had um um, how do you say issues, but I my boss used to tell me, use AI, use AI. You can tell it when you see it now, you're like, Yeah, you know, but my thing is I would rather write it from my how I know that a press release structure should look like, and then ask AI to you know, check out for grammar, restructure it for me, publish it, you know, critique it for me. Yes, I use AI to brainstorm a lot. Yes, um, I do a lot of thinking. So sometimes when I get I I brainstorm with AI, yeah, and then sometimes I'll ask for recommendations, and based on those recommendations, I'll go build what I need to work on. Yes, um, and like you're saying, it's mainly because I do know what I want. You know what you want. If I don't know what I want and you came to me and you say, uh, do this for me, and I go to the I say, give me press release for target. I hope you are going through my worst problem, right? So also learning the right prompt, there's a whole prompt engineering, people are taking prompt engineering courses. I have taken one uh before. So there's a whole model of even prompting AI to give you the best results. And I think that um if if if anybody is going to use AI to generate scripts and shingles or whatever in the creative industry, like you said, first of all, you need to know their stuff.

SPEAKER_02

You need to go past that, otherwise, those who know would see you for the job you're producing. Yeah, especially brands who who know their stuff, they'll call bullshit on it the moment they see it. Yeah, so people think I don't need to learn and do the hard stuff anymore. No, you actually still need to do the hard stuff. Yeah, it's just gonna make life easier for you if you know what you want. Yeah, so do the hard work of still getting the experience, study a lot of campaigns, case studies, get that feeling of what a good campaign is. So when you prompt it, even after learning all the prompt engineer, you could learn, you prompt it right, it gives you something. You can still see that it is not there yet. But without those eyes, you would eat any chance you'd feel are brands still commissioning original sound in in this big 2026? Oh, yes, yes, yes. I think that's still prevalent, especially in our markets. Um, a lot of the jingles you would hear on on radio are definitely commissioned. And because, especially for brands in the regulated space that FDA has to approve, you really want to get it right. You really want to say the right things, you really want to produce the jingle right. So for those, I don't think we I don't think the it's got to so sophisticated on the other side that they're able to produce it on their own without needing, you know, or even outsourcing it. So for that it's still happening, it's quite prevalent.

SPEAKER_03

It's quite prevalent. Yeah, yeah. Um, it's it's like people saying traditional music, sorry, traditional media is dead, right? Yes. Um I I don't I think that they are they are hanging on by the thread. You think so? I think so. I don't I don't know one friend of mine who listen who still listens to it. I don't think the data supports that. Well it's a huge market simplified in traditional media. We don't have we don't have much data in this country, but if anyone has the data, you can show me. But I I I don't know one friend of mine who listen to listens to radio one. Those who watch TV and specific shows on TV, yeah, they watch it on YouTube. My the show that I watch constantly or religiously on TV is Newsfile and Point of View by Bernard Avley. Right. I don't watch them on TV, I watch them on YouTube. I actually watch them on YouTube. Same. So I get it. I mean, I'm not trying to I well, I I don't think I can wipe out traditional media completely, but I think they're handled on my third. They are trying their best to innovate. City TV, CT TV literally launched on it's not Channel 1 TV, but it literally launched on Facebook. Yes, you know, which I found really innovative at the time. Yeah, and they've they went back. I thought they were going to disrupt the industry by being an online-based TV station, yeah, but they had to go traditional. So I think in some way, somehow you can relate it to the brand sophistication you're talking about, right?

SPEAKER_02

Um, I just want to say that I do agree that's it's dropped in terms of consumption of traditional media, the the shift is moving towards digital. Yeah, I mean, sometimes you you'd be surprised, like you're walking and then you find your everyday Joe watching TikTok, and it's like they are so you're like, yeah, I didn't think you're a TikTok person, but they are my my grandma and like other people on TikTok.

SPEAKER_01

My mother is sent to my mom told me that come and download this TikTok thing for me. You know, because of how the FYP works, has is heavy on religious content, yeah, heavy on pastors, prophets.

SPEAKER_02

I was like, okay, there's there's TikTok for everyone. There is Ali.

SPEAKER_03

You you've you've you've been in big offices, you've occupied top decision-making offices. Ali, you hype me wow. And it thought you're rough. But but you know background guy, you your your your your recent um portfolio is quite a big one. Um, you you no longer occupy it. I'm sure when the time is due, you you tell the people what you're doing now. You've told me, but um I'm not gonna I'm not gonna come. Soon come. He will tell you. But um if you're a CMO today and you're supposed to um build a sound strategy for a client, what are the three main decisions, important decisions that you would make?

SPEAKER_02

One, differentiation would be very important for me in that I want a sound that would resonate with my brand. If I'm an energetic brand, I I would want a sound I can own that can trigger that emotion in my audience. So I would want a unique sound that's that's differentiated in the market. Considering the proliferation of anybody being able to create, it's like I'm gonna dig deeper to find a sound. It could be a new instrument that that would really stand out and cut through the noise. I will probably probe in that area to find that unique sound. And then, secondly, then my point earlier about conditional learning. I want a sound that over time, as it as we keep using it in our in our collaterals, in our assets, in our campaigns, in our communication, it trains my audience to associate me with a specific emotion and reaction as well. So I want something that is that catchy, right? Something I can use to train my audience. So over time, it's like when you hear that sound, you you just immediately pivot to that reaction. If it's melancholic, you're all you all suddenly be like your mood just calms down. If I want to make you happy, I use that sound, then I put you in that mood as well. And that would be the Herculean task there, and then three, it has to be culturally relevant, and that is where AI cannot really crack. Um I really don't want to underestimate AI before you know five years from now.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, yeah, it can embody a human being, live in our environment, and then come back and say, Okay, now I know this is what I meant to behave.

SPEAKER_02

So I'm just gonna not push down on that too, but it has to be culturally relevant, and those nuances that you you just have to feel, you just have to know it, live the experiences that you can't quite explain, but intuitively you know this is where the magic lies, is what I also probe to get to. So the cultural relevance is important to me, and sound that I can use to conditionally train my audience to trigger an emotion, and then a differentiating sound. Like I said, there's a lot of proliferation, so I would really look for a sound that could really stand out, you know, on the market.

SPEAKER_03

If you're a brand manager, you're you you heard it. You know, I feel like I just wrote an example, but so I I we're we're good, we're gonna wrap up now. But my last question to you, and this is very relevant because almost 10 years ago, you started something that we're now seeing or experiencing. You've told us why that conviction at the time. Yeah do you have any conviction now that tells you or that help would help you tell us in the next 10 years by 2036 what you think music and advertising would look like in? Or even globally.

SPEAKER_02

This is where I go crazy. I do think of realities that my sound sci-fi. But um I foresee a future where music consumption changes, in that I let's say my favorite voice is Kendra or Drake. And I'm somebody who consumes covers of music, right? Like if I like a song, I want to see how other people performed it. We are different on the level. Like Benson Boom, right?

SPEAKER_03

I don't do that.

SPEAKER_02

I do that. Like I want to consume music in different ways, forms. It could be afrobeat remix of it. So let's just use this example where I love one particular artist's voice. And then because of the capabilities of AI, I can create different playlists of different songs and ask the AI to sing all the songs for me in this person's voice. And that's how I want to consume my music. It's a future I foresee where there's a lot of power in the consumer's hands to really manipulate and consume the music the way they want it. Right? So in that future, the power is no longer in the composer's hands. People could take your voice and go, let's say I like Sarkozy's voice, but I want him to do reggae for me. So I use AI to take his voice and then put together a reggae Bob Mali playlist. And then Sarkozy singing Bob Mali too.

SPEAKER_00

The same book. So no man, he's not sang in Sarkozy's voice.

SPEAKER_02

Because that's the same rhythm, same voice. But I want to reggae. So I really foresee a future where people are composing their own songs in ways of changing the voice or changing the genre of the song. But just because I like the lyrics, but put it into an alpha beat for me, I foresee consumers get to that point, but that's how they want to consume their music. And that point, it's like you, the artist, you need to really protect your IP because that would be your money maker. Because if you do not protect your IP, somebody could just take it and just manipulate it, and then it goes in other ways out of your control. So the point I make about the mention of Stromme, I made the song that is a hit right now. Imagine my shock when I find out it's an old song that AI had reimagined, and it's a massive hit now. There's gonna be a lot more of this, right? Creativity is not in the hands of just the artist alone. Maybe they thought this song is good as a as a slow song, or your consumers took it, made it a faster song. And guess what? Everybody likes that more. So at that point, do you used to have control over the sound? Right? Do you used to have control over the music? Do you used to own it? So you're dealing with an audience that is nomadic, that is eclectic, that wants to try different things. They they want all the power to themselves. That is the future I see in how people would consume music. And it's scary. I don't even know. I don't even know how artists can position themselves to be ready for this type of consumer, right? Who wants to listen to your voice, but I don't like your genre. So I take your voice to another genre, and then I try to listen to the song the way I want it. So in that future, what happens to the artist? So for me, my what I what I can think of right now for the artist is you need to build your brand beyond just your vocals. There needs to be more to you than just your vocals. You need to bring more to the table. It's probably your craft on stage, and that's something AI can do. Nobody's gonna pay to watch. Let me not say never, right? Never.

SPEAKER_01

I pay to watch robots perform.

unknown

Exactly.

SPEAKER_02

You know, and there are humanoids that really look like exactly. Yeah, so I'm not gonna say never on this podcast, but I think the best chance for artists is to build their brand beyond the vocal. Have something that's more interesting than just your voice. It could be your look, it could be how you show up, it could be the story. And I think that's one thing AI can take from you. It's right what you love, what you hate, that forms who you are, that can be copied, right? We don't know what you're gonna do tomorrow. Yeah, so that's authentically you. Bernard Boy is loud for a lot of things and not just his voice. People say he's he's rowdy, he's he's he has this huge ego, but that all comes together for the Benna Boy brand. Everything you love and hate about Chatawali comes together for his brand. Everything you love and hate about Sarkozy comes together. So artists need to lean more into that, like move beyond just the voice. Because, like I said, the scenario I described how your voice will be used. Producers might not even need you in the studio anymore. True. They just they've trained an AI with your voice, they'll just send you an audio and say, Oh, I was playing around and I did this. And you're like, that sounds like me. And I love this song. Let's put it out tomorrow. But you never stepped in the studio. So artists will need to, I think they need to get closer to their lawyers because they need to start really owning their IPs and ensure nobody's messing with the anything that's closely associated with them. But they should generally build a brand beyond the voice because that's easily replicable now. What is not easily replicable is their story, how they show up, you know, who they are, your family, that that background where you're coming from. Kaboute is always telling us you go when it was walking somewhere and think along the way.

SPEAKER_01

I hope, I hope.

SPEAKER_02

Those those becomes yeah, those are the things that become authentically you and the need to protect it and lean towards that. If not, before you bring to the table is vocal, like I said, I'll probably take your voice and just go listen to the kind of music and listen, and you have no idea about it.

SPEAKER_03

I think that I'm just gonna end with this point that if the advertising bill was passed, yeah, it could help protect artists when some of these things come up. Of course, you did mention that uh they shouldn't get closer to their lawyers. And I think that when they do get closer to their lawyers, the advertising bill would help them protect that. So Ellie, thank you so much for for joining us on today's episode. If you made it to this point of the video, I want to say thank you so much, and I hope you did find it insightful. Please do like, comment, and share with any of your friends that you think would find this as uh exciting as you did. And also, please do subscribe to this channel.