Beyond the Plate: The Psychology of Performance Nutrition

Are you optimizing your nutrition or just creating a cage around it? If you're tracking macros, using wearables, and still feeling disconnected from your body, this episode of ‪@CellToSystems‬ is your reset. 🍏⌚️🏋️‍♂️

In this episode, high-performance Registered Dietitian Robin Steagall   / bodyscience.rd    joins our panel to unpack the psychology behind performance nutrition and break down the most dangerous mistake in the longevity space: under-fueling. Robin Steagall is the owner and founder of Body Science RD https://bodysciencerd.com/ Her areas of expertise include nutrition planning, metabolism optimization, and long-term weight management.

Most people think they are "optimizing" by eating less and training harder. In reality, they are just triggering their body's panic button. We are breaking down why your metabolism stalls when you "eat clean," why Leonard threw away his health trackers to finally feel better, and why your body sees a calorie deficit as a survival threat rather than a weight loss goal. 

In this episode, you will learn:
• The "skinny fat" cycle: Why calorie restriction that "worked" for weight loss sabotages muscle retention and metabolic health long-term.
• Protein timing myths: Why hitting your total protein intake matters more than obsessing over the post-workout window.
• GLP-1 reality check: How these medications change appetite, hydration, and nutrient absorption, and what that means for performance.
• Food as psychology: Getting real about binge eating, shame, and why willpower isn't the problem. 
• Training your kids (without the shame): How to teach food choices without creating anxiety or disordered eating in the next generation.

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:00

The Celda Systems Podcast is for informational and educational purposes only and does not provide medical advice, diagnosis, or treatment. Listening does not create a doctor-patient relationship. Always consult a qualified health care provider regarding your medical conditions or before changing your health regimen. Do not disregard professional advice or delay seeking it because of something you heard on the podcast. Reliance on the information provided is at your own risk. Guest opinions are their own. Zelda Systems may utilize affiliate links, feature sponsored content, or discuss companies in which hosts or guests have financial or advisory interests. Relevant disclosures will be noted during the episode or below.

SPEAKER_03 0:38

Welcome back to Zelda Systems. In this episode, we are joined by special guest Robin Stigal, who is a registered dietitian working with high performance athletes and high performance adults on optimization. She's also the founder of Tell us, Robin.

SPEAKER_02 0:56

Body Science RD, private practice. We're located in Atlanta.

SPEAKER_03 1:00

And you and you work on optimization with people who sometimes try to over-optimize and then wind up under optimizing.

SPEAKER_02 1:08

So we try to help folks use nutrition and training to achieve their goals. And sometimes less is more is kind of where I start in terms of the concept around optimization. So yep.

SPEAKER_03 1:21

So where does that start? How does that start? When you have somebody, let's say you're onboarding someone brand new, uh where does it all, where does it all start?

SPEAKER_02 1:29

So where I'm positioned in terms of being a private practice uh dietician, by the time a patient or a client gets to me, they literally have tried everything else on their own. They've, you know, they've gone online, they've used chatbots, they've whatever. So by the time they come to me, really what I've discovered is that they just are like, tell me what to do. You know, they just, you know, help me. I've I've tried everything and something's off. And the off is what we're trying to fix, we're trying to define, um, and we're trying to get really, really um prescriptive around it sometimes. So, for example, someone will come in and they'll say, if it's an athlete, for example, um, my particular area of passion, I love strength and performance athletes. I just have a really like a soft spot for that area. I love it. Um, and so these athletes will come in and they're getting ready for a competition. And generally speaking, the issue that's bringing them in is their recovery is off or they're not hitting their numbers. Um, or sometimes it's something like my GI is off, like my stomach hurts and I can't finish my training. And so we start there and we start trying to figure out okay, well, you know, let's look at the whole picture. And so when as a dietitian, it's more than just the foods, it's more than just the supplements. It's also kind of what is your motivation, your timing, your amounts, how focused we are, um, how does it integrate with your training, your recovery, those kinds of things. So we try to start to paint a picture around that person so that they can begin to both have solutions to the problem and achieve their goal. But also ultimately, I'm wanting them to have something that's sustainable. They can walk away and it's not just like a finish line mentality where they made competition or they hit their record or whatever. They're able to have skills and they've changed somehow the way they're interacting with their self-care around nutrition and recovery.

SPEAKER_03 3:20

Interesting. So I imagine that evolves over time also as you work with someone. They're not just, it's not a static thing, and they're sort of hitting new benchmarks and then finding new ways to move forward. Curious from the group, um, how that plays in. Christy, I know you have Veronica with you. Um, and as you see patients as a provider, um, I wonder how that plays in for you and your practice.

SPEAKER_00 3:45

Yeah, I mean, uh Veronica, she's also a registered dietitian and um, I mean, phenomenal. I mean, I think that's when we work with patients together, that is when we get our best results. Um, because when we talk about strength training and performance, you know, for myself, we have to zoom out because from a longevity standpoint, it's not about how hard we push. Uh, like Robin was saying, it's about how well your system can adapt, recover, and sustain um output over over time. Um, and like at the cellular level level, strength training is a stressor, and that's what we want it to be, right? And fueling and recovery determine whether that stressor becomes adaptation or a breakdown. Um, and then you know, I think that's when having a a registered dietitian, nutritionist on board can can be phenomenal. Um, because I mean, as we all know, the strength training is one of the most powerful tools as far as longevity we have, and it and improves, you know, the insulin sensitivity, preserves lean muscle mass, supports the mitochondria, and and drives the hormone health. Um, but more training is not better training. And um, I agree, like the underfueling is um I think one of the most overlooked uh disruptors as far as long-term health. Um the body doesn't how I describe it to patient, like the body doesn't in interpret underfueling as leaning out, it sees it as a threat. And and and that's also when you start getting, you know, the mitochondrial breakdown, the dysfunction from a thyroid perspective. Um, and you know, you see it with the patients who are training consistently but are plateauing um or even regressing because the body just simply doesn't have the resources to adapt because it's been in this underfueling state for for way too long. Um and then, you know, one of my kind of passions, and especially just going through um Dr. Freeze training or having my other provider go through it, is the most overlooked piece in performance, I think, is the nervous uh system, um, in my opinion. Um, you know, you have these high performing athletes with high stress, high output always pushing. Um, but it doesn't matter how perfect your nutrition is. You're in a state that, you know, you you're not in a state that supports the repair and digestive and muscle health. Um, and you you can't out train a dysregulated nervous system.

SPEAKER_02 6:28

Well, and you also can't out you can't out train or or run away from a bad diet or poor recovery. And they all work. I think that's the thing that working with Suzanne is really so great, you know, to your point, Christy, is the fact that it's the best of both worlds. So you have a provider that's working on the hormone systems and you're looking at thyroid function and that aspect of physiology. We'll say oftentimes as a dietitian who's also in the weight room, who's also in and around these athletes, I can start to spot things and patterns that look like under nutrition before it ever hits the labs or it ever shows up, even like subclinically. You can just see changes in mood or shifts in like interaction and um having the time and the ability as a provider to have that much time with my patients. Like that's the other thing that's really different here because oftentimes in traditional clinical nutrition, it's these one-off 15-minute grind, you know, education, education. And you don't have the time to really unlike unfold and really like learn and know the person who's sitting across from you. And and I think that is also the biggest difference maker in in providing care at this level for high-performing individuals for sure.

SPEAKER_06 7:38

Do you guys in your practice ever do um I you know I've seen other practices that will actually like go into the grocery store uh with their clients to help guide their food choices and plan out and map their meals throughout the week?

SPEAKER_02 7:52

I mean, I I will when I say I get in the trenches with these people, so I don't take a lot of patience to be honest. I mean, I've been doing this for a long, long time. I and and you know, I have the ability to really make sure that when I'm sitting down in front of someone, this is someone that I will walk in through the trenches with. Like we're gonna do this thing, right? Yeah, I've I have set up personal chefs for people. I have called the chefs. I mean, we have gone through, like I have got, you know, I've I've gone to gas stations that might be potentially on the route that their tour bus is gonna take and photograph what you get out of the like gas station, right? Like, I mean, to that level of information and support. Because one of the things that compromises performance nutrition is decision fatigue, right? Like they're already maxed out. They've got, they're trying to hit home runs in all these other areas. And that's where, like I said, they come in front of me, they're like, just tell me what to do. And initially at that treatment spot or that initial interaction and trying to get them to goal, that we're solving a problem, right? Like we're giving them the solution. Once they start to feel better, they're starting to make that connection between the importance, then we are able to start shifting over into what I'm ultimately trying to get them to is mastery around their nutrition and how they're interacting with their foods and their recovery.

SPEAKER_04 9:09

It's interesting to talk about um, you know, performance and athletes. And I'm just trying to make connections as to um what I see in patients that maybe aren't like the highest performers because they get into a position where they have this like positive reinforcement from bad decisions they've made. So they initially have poor metabolism, very overweight, and so they they they they they're they're undernourished, but that's work for them because now they lose a lot of weight and then they hit these really like these bad plateaus. And some people have had some success being on very low calorie diets, ketogenic diets, where they just they they they improve their body composition and their biomarkers improved. And so they get this like positive reinforcement. But what happens is now they have different body composition, they have like different caloric needs, and they did not switch like that plan. And it's really hard to tell somebody that, hey, I know that worked for you, but now fueling and now eating is going to be what takes you to the next uh level, so the next phase of your optimization. And I I ran in that to in that myself because um, you know, I was I was very overweight at one point and I knew what worked for me. And I was like, hey, I have a system. This is what I do. I don't need any carbs, I don't need anything, and I just work out really hard, but I just got to a point where I realized that that was, you know, uh causing more problems. I went through years of realizing, of not realizing that there was another level to get to if I could just fuel correctly. And um, and I see that happen in a in a lot of in a lot of patients. So I love the way that you can learn from like high performance athletes, but even for, you know, and put and bring that to some of our uh our sicker patients.

SPEAKER_02 10:39

I think that's a really good point. The on-ramp for a lot of underfueling is often initially a body composition change. Like I want to lean out, I want to, you know, I'm off competition cycle. I want to, you know, I want to increase my muscle and I want to drop some, you know, body fat. And that's their on-ramp. And so it starts out in this like really virtuous cycle, right? Where we are creating big calorie, you know, not big, but we're creating a calorie deficit and we're really dialed in in terms of, you know, focusing on, you know, like food logging and the the all the things. The quote, eating clean, it's just like really intentional eating and hitting your numbers really, really, you know, consistently. If we don't advance beyond and constantly reassess, you know, what is it we're actually trying to achieve? When is optimal, when do we arrive at optimal? And well, optimal is a moving target, right? And so that's where we're hoping to get, you know, some skill development around mastery, really for the individual to listen to their bodies, um, not necessarily rely so heavily on on just the external markers of how you're doing. You know, like, you know, I have clients that wear like the um like the aura, oh sorry, the rings, the like the you know, heart rate variability, and they're looking at recovery apps and they have all of this technology, these wearables. And they're relying on those external um data points to tell them how they're doing. And and that's the only, it's like they're not actually checking in, like how you do in a mayor. Like, really, how are you doing in your own body? And they become, you know, it's almost like disconnected. And so that's where I think it is a slippery slope in terms of you can start to get yourself into a cage around how you're fueling because you're really chasing optimization on these external markers, um, and maybe skipping some of the how you're feeling in your own body and and you know, like how your mood is, how your, you know, the other things that are a little bit less hard to track on an app.

SPEAKER_04 12:37

Yeah. I I I was the one that had, you know, the glucose monitor, um, the aura ring, the the watch, like two different watches, two different apps going at the same time to tell me which one I was burning calories in. And recently, and it wasn't by decision, it was, I think I told you guys before, my aura ring broke and I just haven't got another one. And I just, you know, Frank, you know, got me addicted to watches recently. And so I haven't had the um, you know, I just been wearing, I haven't been wearing my like my Apple watch, and I'm I'm I feel more in tune with my body now than I have in the last three or four years. And I don't know what my glucose is, I don't know what my sleep score was. I just know, hey, like what, like how did I feel myself yesterday? Like how am I gonna feel, how am I gonna feel in the gym today? Um, yeah, you know what? I'm not gonna work out this morning, or maybe I'll get one in in the afternoon because I need an extra hour. And um I feel better than I have in a long time. And and not to one's right or wrong, but I I just got too far into it and I started um letting it dictate, you know, how I feel or what you know, what I do without without listening to myself.

SPEAKER_02 13:35

And that intersection that you're talking about, Leonard, of the two things, right? Where you have both the data, but also like a reflection or a check-in with have you guys ever heard of the concept of like rate of perceived exertion versus wearing like a heart rate monitor, right? And so, you know, you have like, well, am I in zone two? Well, according to my heart rate monitor, I am. But when I actually ask myself, how hard does this feel to me, it might, I might be at a three or a four based on the amount of sleep I've had that day or where I am in my cycle, or you know, these other variables that are not picked up just on that watch. And so mastery, when I talk about mastery for for high-performing individuals or for anyone really, is the ability to integrate both things, like keep them in context and perspective. And that also requires that they start to build trust around their own agency and these, like, you know, the ability to feed themselves, the ability to listen, that the body is telling them things that they can trust. Um, and then it helps them put that external data into some context.

SPEAKER_04 14:34

Robin, do you have your patients track uh calories?

SPEAKER_02 14:37

I do. And it's very controversial in dietetics to do that. So, like I said, initially, when a patient or I hate to say, these are clients, they're not patients. Like these are, you know, these are my people. They come in and they have really specific goals and they say, you know, they're there, they have a problem and we're gonna fix it. That is an initial treatment or therapeutic intervention. And it's really about them learning and readjusting to what their needs are, like physiologically, nutritionally, around timing, how their bodies change and respond to different macro levels and things like that. And the best piece of information or the best data you can collect on yourself is a symptom tracker, right? So this is what I'm eating, this is how I feel when I eat it, this is what my output is, this is how, you know, and you're putting, and so it's I try to make sure that it's not a, this is not punishment. This is really about you getting the best possible data so that you are, you're developing a deep level understanding of what you need. And this is how we get to mastery. So a short intervention of calorie tracking, but it's not just calories. We're gonna look at protein, we're gonna look at fat, we're gonna look at fiber, we're gonna look at sodium, we're gonna look at all the things. I love it when they use an app to do that. But if that's not their on-ramp, just even pen and papering it. And with that data, we begin to help them form new and different relationships around their self-care and their timing and things like that.

SPEAKER_03 16:01

So you find the app is actually the way to track it is the best way to see it because you can really start to see the metrics of that over time.

SPEAKER_02 16:11

You know what I love about an app is that the ones that we're using, they let me, I get to watch them log. And so you have almost like this built-in accountability system. So, you know, it's like that kind of the concept of you won't show up for yourself, but if you have an accountability partner, then you'll do the thing because you know, like somebody's watching. And I love that that part of an app where I can in real time go back and see, you know, like if they text me and they're like, Yeah, my I was off today in my numbers or whatever. I can I I can like, well, let's go take a look, let's see what's been going on. And and I we can really start to get, you know, start to see patterns or notice, like, yeah, you know what, the past two days you've been really, really under in your carbs. That could definitely, you know. And so that's what I love about a nap.

SPEAKER_05 16:54

You know what, you know what's crazy about this listening to you guys is um is the psychology around food and nutrition that's more important than anything else. It's almost like we talk about all those things. I mean, I do have a problem with food. I love food, you know? You know, I really do. So, so you know, and and and it's it's one of those things where it's almost like, you know, we talk about apps, we talk about those protocols, we talk about all those things. But I think it's like 99.5% all um psychology, you know, around how to kind of you know, bring, you know, bring nutrition in your in in your life, really, you know. And um, and it's interesting, and I can't wait to uh to talk to Robin about that a little bit more deeper and see how she adds, or if you do add psychology into into your conversation with with your with your customers, because you know, it's almost like um, you know, for me the goal of performance nutrition, you know, should never be, you know, like a protocol. Um it's it's just it's always it's a tool. The protocol is a tool. So the apps, you know, the ordering, the the you know, it's it's a tool, right? And the goal is is a person who fuels their training effectively, I guess. You know, we cover completely uh you know, maintaining their hormonal balance and as a relationship with food that you know that adds to their lives rather than organizing it in a sense, right? And um, you know, I'm just curious to see if you do add a component of of psychology with that, because we all, you know, I think people change, you know, like uh the the nutrition that a that a 25-year-old that's that's a power lifter um that's really want to you know get fit um is is is using compared to a 35-year-old male that's you know trying to to retain compared to a 45-year-old guy that wants to go run a marathon to uh you know perimenopasal uh monopolosal lady that's you know, it's just all different, you know, and the approach is so different about how they're thinking about food. So yeah, just just curious to see how you bring psychology in there.

SPEAKER_02 19:05

It's such an interesting um question that you're asking. I have so I'm a preceptor for dietetic students um at the dietetic programs at Emory and Georgia State down here. And part of the their rotation is to come and learn competency, like competency around private practice. So I have a dietetic intern with me now. So she's able to sit in and observe these interactions with my clients. And at the end of the one today, she looked at me and she said, Oh my God, Robin, that's not education, that's counseling. And I was like, You're absolutely right, because the the beliefs and thoughts we have around how we feed ourselves, how we move our bodies, what we allow ourselves to do in terms of rest and recovery is deeply anchored in a lot of that early programming that we've experienced as children, um as um, you know, like our the information that we've observed, the behaviors we've observed. We pick up a lot of self-care, I call them like dust bunnies almost, as we go through life, that set for us before we even realize it, rules and guidelines around, well, this is what it means to be healthy. This is what healthy eating looks like, this is what healthy foods are, or these are what, you know, and it's sometimes the work is literally helping that individual unpack some of these sort of unintentional food beliefs and concepts they have around, like I usually for, especially for women, there's a unique challenge I find in women of my age group, where we were almost taught that the less space you occupy, the higher your value on the planet, right? So it is literally a less is more mentality. So getting on a scale and seeing a number can that does not meet what that sort of programming early in your life around your value, like that can undo weeks and weeks and weeks of really solid intentional self-care. And they don't even understand where their motivation went or why they've given up, right? Like they like what happened. Um, and it's helping them start to make the connection between I call them the monkeys in their heads, and these are these unintentional beliefs and thoughts about how they will care for themselves or what they will allow themselves to do and what is safe and not safe around nutrition and things like that. So there's a huge psychological component of that. I think as a little girl growing up, and you know, I grew up in like the 70s and 80s, I'm gonna definitely date myself. So, you know, I is growing up and part of the norm is an era of like attending, you know, meetings where women would step on a scale and they would record your weight. And it was like this, you know, and it's like weight loss, weight loss, way less, way less, way less. The reason I personally have shifted my emphasis away from weight management and into sports and performance is because ultimately at the end of all of that, the less of us, or what are we really trying to achieve? We're trying to be healthier. And live longer and be stronger and have more enjoyment, hopefully, and living in our bodies. And it's not about weight management. We're really whatever we're doing is we're actually trying to, you know, optimize performance, athlete or not. We're trying to have these homes that we occupy physically, you know, keep up with our desire to go and grow and explore. And so psychology is the thing that underpins it. And I had the benefit of kind of being raised feral, right? Like in not necessarily the most emotionally supportive environment and having to learn and acquire tools as I went along, both as an athlete, um, but just as a human and a woman walking around on the planet. And so I try very, very hard to give time and space and privacy for my clients so that we can do some of that work. If I ever get an indication, however, that we're at another level of, you know, complex trauma or a higher level of not just disordered eating, but we're talking about eating disorders, then we I always refer out. Like we definitely, you know, get folks into that team-based care environment.

SPEAKER_06 23:04

Do you work with kids?

SPEAKER_02 23:06

Kids are so tough. I I will, but no. So I mean challenging. Because children are not independent eaters. So children are eating within a family. And there are a lot of additional family dynamics that come along with. So you're not just dealing with that individual, even if you're talking about adolescent and teen or you know, 20-year-old, they're not necessarily independent and making their own decisions. And so you're really trying to deal with interactions between, you know, siblings and parents and extended family, and it can get really, really um complex, right? And so I think that having the expertise and the deep training around those additional relationships is that's why people specialize in pediatrics. Um, you know, but I will take sports and parents and kids for sure. But once it but I'm very, very careful around the are we crossing a line into some of these more complex um, you know, food and feeding issues.

SPEAKER_06 24:08

It's just such a challenging area. I mean, you know, kids these days, you know, they grew up grow up exposed to all of the stuff that's absolutely terrible for them, but of course it tastes so good. And we know that, you know, scientists are working hard uh behind the uh, you know, behind the curtain to make these foods more addictive and more appealing. Um, you know, how can we bypass their um, you know, appetite suppression and all of those things? And uh I find that to be one of the most challenging aspects of of being a parent is, you know, I know the science behind why this is healthy and why this is not, but then sort of relaying that to my children and helping them to understand that, you know, the choices you're gonna make now are actually gonna influence how you feel tomorrow and how you're able to, you know, do your homework and and uh perform in school and so forth. And so um, you know, it's it's the type of thing that I I think, you know, patients um or or clients of yours or anybody who is working with uh a registered dietitian, they've got kids of their own, you know, how can you talk to your kids about um better choices and you know, fueling for purpose and for energy and really, you know, trying to avoid some of the pitfalls of unhealthy nutrition?

SPEAKER_02 25:18

So, you know, to that point, Craig, I have I have like one story in particular that really stands out for me. And it's kind of like this is the minefield around kids and nutrition. So, you know, up in this area, I'm in like in the north metro area and we're at a fancy like grocery store. I'm not gonna name it, but it's you know, like fancy grocery store, but all the healthy things are. This is where all the perfect food lives, perfect in air quotes. So I'm at the salad bar or the hot foods bar, and I am literally waiting for a client to show up. So we're gonna do a grocery store tour. So I'm standing in that area, and that's where we're gonna meet, and I see this interaction between a mother and her daughter. Her daughter could not have been more than five years old. And the little girl's with her mom, and they're gonna get food, and the little girl has her plate and she goes to the salad bar and she gets apple slices, Granny Smith apple slices. And the mother said to this five-year-old, No, no, sweetheart, there's too much sugar in that. And I tell you, it took everything in my body to just to take that in as information and not try to intervene. But that is what I'm talking about when we want both for our children. We want them to both live healthy. And we also want them to have confidence around the ability to how to feed themselves. But at the same time, we are also trying not to completely terrify them about the food environment that they're going to encounter, because it's really different in the United States, right? This is, you know, I think the most powerful thing we can do as parents, because I have two, two boys, um, is one, they may not listen to me, but they watch me. They watch me how I eat, they watch me make a meal, they watch me cook or not cook and like order at, you know, DoorDash, right? Like so they're learning and how we're doing. And the other thing is you don't grow up learning to like broccoli. I mean, maybe some people do, but you know, like that is something that you only come to because you try it over and over again and it's part of your norms. And so what a healthy meal is, that's our job as parents, in my perspective, to teach them what healthy eating is. And it's also my job as a parent to let them have hot dogs, right? So both, because if you get too restrictive again, then it becomes about a power struggle and secret of eating and shame, and then off we go into that rabbit hole of disordered eating. And our kids, especially our teens, like they're getting so much pressure around the ex aesthetics, like the externals. And I'm getting more and more, you know, late teen and 20-year-old women who are we are really, really flirting with eating disorders. And it's all coming from the notion of looks maxing and not just looks maxing, but like eating clean, eating healthy. And they're so good at eating clean and eating healthy that literally their energy availability is too low and they they cannot fuel their activities. And and and it's all masked in this socially acceptable. They're lean, they're beautiful, they're botoxed, you know, and they're 20. And at the same time, they feel worried when they're eating a Granny Smith apple because there's too much sugar, you know, and it's like, wow. And so what you're seeing is they're more irritable, they have more brain fog, they've lost motivation, they're not dating, they're not, you know, and it's like all of these other more subtle signs, but ultimately it's masked in this really well-intentioned, you've got to be careful how you feed yourself in the United States because you can have the best and the absolute worst, right? Nutritionally. And so it's like as parents, it's it is. I will tell you this like we have we have the responsibility to like show what a healthy meal is and also demonstrate that food is not just nutrients, it's also pleasure and culture and tradition. And and we need all of that because food, we're we're, we have, you know, like senses in our body to enjoy what we're eating and and giving kids confidence and enjoyment and knowing the concept of balance. And and it's nobody's perfect. I mean, do you think my kids listen to me? I'm a dietitian. Are you kidding me? They often, on the time, like, who invited her? Like that's what they say. Like, if it's like at a a dinner, a restaurant or whatever. Um, and I have to try really, really hard to just, you know, again, just trust in the process, know that they're observing. They may not, you know, so um, but you're right. It challenging is is not even a word. And then if you have children that are, you know, into athletics and they're on travel teams and there's even an, you know, with the NIL, another level of pressure that's coming in younger and younger, you know, and they're still growing and developing. I mean, it's man, it's a lot. So yeah.

SPEAKER_06 29:46

One of the things that I've found to be pretty cool, you know, just for myself, but also within my friends' group and and for um colleagues and friends of ours that have kids that are, you know, maybe in their mid to late teens and have, you know, some exposure to language and stuff like that, is actually looking at like some of the TV shows that are out there, maybe on Netflix. Like there's this one guy, Maddie Matheson, who's, you know, world-renowned chef. He owns several different restaurants. Um, and the way he presents his food preparation and his cooking uh makes it so enticing and looks so beautiful and look like such a spiritual and holistic process that you can't help but feel as though you want to go out the next day and find the right groceries, find the right ingredients, and put together this delicious meal for yourself and your family. And so, like using, you know, media like that instead of just, you know, mindless brain rot and actually looking at a cooking show. Like, I mean, cooking shows have been around forever, right? Uh, and I I I guess there's a good reason because um they can be so motivating in that sense.

SPEAKER_02 30:50

You know, one of the things that I was really excited to see is last year um Georgia State University took a group of dietitians, dietetic interns that are getting ready to become dietitians, took them to Italy, took them to Florence. It's like a food cultural exchange, but really it was about showing these students how in Italy, in the public health system, they integrate the Mediterranean diet. We went into a like a school, like an elementary school that has the main kitchen, and they are making from scratch meatballs from like from animals that were literally like on the farm, like two miles away. We're talking local, we're talking fresh, we're talking from scratch. And the the emphasis and importance around not just the composition of the meal in terms of protein, carbs, and fat, but the quality of the ingredients. And also about allowing these school children, when they sit down to eat, they have a minimum of an hour to have a meal at school, right? I mean, and so it's really trying, they believe that learning about food and how to fuel yourself and what real food tastes like is actually part of your education. That's part of their public education system. I think there was a study published, and I can't remember the date, but it was looking at countries and their perceptions and beliefs around food. And the UK and the United States, and I think it was Australia, we have the lowest nutrition quality and the lowest levels of enjoyment in what we eat. And then you look at other countries like I think Peru, and I'll have to find the study, I can share it, but in Italy, and and they have the highest nutrition co-quality and the highest enjoyment in what they eat. And it's because their relationship around food is so different and they make time for it and they're very intentional in it. And they're using ingredients that are fresh and local and they smell like strawberries and not just look like strawberries, right? And so, yeah, like we're we have so many unique challenges in our country in terms of sort of educating and and and helping people feed themselves in ways that feels sustainable and safe and and is actually helping them achieve their goals. So yeah, you're you're you're absolutely spot on, Craig. Like how do you teach someone? It it's a challenge. I mean, we have a lot of opportunity though.

SPEAKER_05 33:05

So Robin, I think there's a misalignment um between what you just said there and what's going on in the longevity world for us right now. Meaning that, you know, this this desire to enjoy food and and enjoy good quality ingredients um is misaligned with what's going on out there with, you know, performance and longevity, you know, in this country. Right. Because it's it's it's it's supposed to be enjoyable, balanced, like you just talked about, right? And what's happening is it becomes extremely extremely rigid around food choices here. Um is creating anxiety when you have to talk about food. Definitely social withdrawal. You know, people withdraw from social event because they don't want to go and attend because of the food they're gonna be serving. You know, so you have this identity crisis with food here, and it's supposed to be the inverse. So it's totally misaligned, you know, and I'm so glad that you talked about that because, you know, you're right, you know, Italians, um, people in Spain, you know, eating, it's it's it's a social event, you know, and and and there's a lot of it, you know, and but it's it's it's it's actually good for you, right? Um and you shouldn't be misaligned with um, you know, no, you're not supposed to be eating this or eating that, right? And I think and I think that's what we need to really kind of make sure that people understand, you know, when it comes to uh being optimal um, you know, and and wanting to to live a healthy life is just all about making the right choices, make you know, make sure it's balanced and go to the source of like so where it's coming from.

SPEAKER_02 34:46

So some of it is also um, you know, again, time and having the time, you know, when you're working with high performance folks or not, I mean just everybody. Like we're all so busy. And the the I don't know for where y'all are, but I mean, like I have clients that their commute every single day is 90 minutes. That is three hours a day that they are in the car. And that's draining energetically, even though they're not, you know, expending a time. It's just so stressful. And so by the time they get home, their their decision, their brain's ability to like, let's go, you know, peel some vegetables. You know, it's like it's very, very low and it makes it really, really hard. And then they get shame around the fact that, well, I had to get some frozen organic vegetables and I microwaved them, right? Now they're like, oh, that's not good enough. You know, and so then what ends up happening ultimately in it inadvertently is sometimes they just quit, right? It's like the all or nothing. And that's that rigidity we're talking about. And so I think one of the things that we're working on is that balance, like just because, like, you know, we've got the information coming in from our wearables, but then also the ability to put it in context with like, like, how am I actually feeling? And trying to give um folks the tools and the ability to um to know how to like it's like always like that scale. It's like good, better, best, right? Good, better, best. And how do we get people just thinking about it in terms of perfect is never the goal. We're trying to make some progress and we're gonna do the best we can given the situation of the day. Because when people feel as if this is an impossible mission, then they're gonna look for shortcuts and hacks and just give it to me in a pill because I don't have time for this. And so I think what we're trying to do is is maybe change some of the messaging and the communication around it. Um, because I do believe you can have, you can have both. Um, and some days you have time for, you know, that like big, wonderful meal that you've made and you grew the tomatoes on the patio or whatever. And some days, really, I mean, you're like picking up something from DoorDash or at a Mediterranean restaurant and, you know, and and both fit. And I think when you can help people figure out how to put it into their own lives, that's where we really start to see like what I call like the optimal performance metric for me is I have clients that leave me and they come back to me in five years and they're like, okay, Robin, now I'm gonna work on this. Like they feel when they leave, they have confidence to navigate. Cause we have a really fraught food system and food environment. And we're not gonna, you know, I mean, so it's kind of like um, I want people to feel instead of discouraged or neurotic or nervous, I want people to start to feel like they can trust themselves and and learn and grow. It's like a progress like a growth mindset, right?

SPEAKER_06 37:35

Like we're trying to get them to think outside of just some of the shortcuts and the data and the perfection thinking out of rigid and into some flexibility and the, you know, like small, prop progressive, consistent changing kind of I love what uh you guys have been talking about and and uh throwing it back back to what Frank said about the psychology of it all, because I know that, you know, my relationship with food has always been complex. I I like Frank, I I love food, you know, like I have the tendency to be a binge eater, you know, and uh and on a day where I am weak and I give in to those cravings and whatnot, it is like a catastrophic mental shift that happens uh because I'm like, oh my God, you know, I really gotta make up for this tomorrow, uh, or you know, I've gotta go get on the Peloton tonight, or I've got to do this, that, or the other thing. And um, you know, it's just so remarkable how, as we've all discussed, you know, how our relationship with food here is so different than other countries and um, you know, it can be so unfortunately uh, you know, devastating to someone's mental state. And um, I I like what you mentioned, Robin, about um really trying to encourage and empower people. And it's remarkable because when you see somebody, like when you see somebody who's reached that optimal state of performance and they're making the right decisions, it's a night and day difference between that person and how they present themselves and how they, you know, uh appear confident versus somebody who, you know, maybe they're trying really hard, but they're just not there yet. Um, or maybe they know that they're not making adequate nutritional decisions for themselves. Um, I mean, these are two completely different people in the way that they're gonna present uh out in public. And uh, it's so wonderful to see those people that are uh really achieving a lot of success. And um, you know, it's it's great to be able to be in a position where you can help the people that are not yet there. So awesome work that you're doing.

SPEAKER_02 39:38

Thank you. I would also say, you know, like for us, one of the things I try to ask my, you know, my patients or my clients to do is to just start to take all of those eating behaviors and those beliefs and just approach it with some curiosity. So when you talk about those moments where, you know, it's like, man, I don't understand. Like I just had an incident with like tortilla chips the other night and I like ate the whole bag, right? And it's like, and there's a ton of shame around it because we get very, very like black and white around it, like that was good or that was bad. Right. Or actually you just feel terrible when you wake up the next day because you ate a whole bag of chips. Well, you know, I'm here's the thing is that one, we're those chips were intentionally designed to get you to eat the whole bag, right? So good job, guys. Um, but the second thing is okay, what led up to that? Like what was happening in that day? Like, how did I sleep the night before? Where was my stress level the night before? Was it one of those days where I was literally going, going, going, going, going and never actually got it? I'm I'm now backloading calories because I've actually been operating in a deficit all day long. And so what your body is trying to do, honestly, Craig, is save you, protect you, protect you from either stress because you have been on cortisol all day long and just like you know, foot on the accelerator. It's trying to, it's trying to um protect you from starvation. It's trying to protect you from um, you know, like low blood sugar, whatever. But then because the foods we're putting in our mouths are designed for us to just keep going, you know, it's working. I want to take away the shame and the judgment around it. It's like a thing that happens. So now let's get curious about it. Because oftentimes you start to, and this is where like food logging and paying attention, like that's where you can start to find patterns. And you know, hey, you know what? Man, like I didn't sleep great the night before. I'd done a ton of cardio the day before. I didn't really refuel afterward. You know, some of my glycogen stores were low. Like it kind of now starts to make sense. And now you're you start to get kind of um some additional ways of of of pausing and identifying when you're starting to head in that direction over again. And it's just some of the things that we try to think about and work with um our patients on on figuring out because everyone's had those experiences. I mean, living in America, that's like we have so much abundance and we also have so little time and oftentimes so so little connection or opportunity to really nourish ourselves. So food is the fill-in for that. And it's not necessarily the the stuff that our body needs, but it's the thing that's gonna give us the the jolt or the dopamine or the whatever, right? So um, I just would say for us to like work on curiosity and meet those things with grace.

SPEAKER_03 42:07

Yeah, I think it's really interesting too as we move into this world where we talk a lot about GLP ones. And um, and I wonder just from your perspective, how much that has impacted the work that you do.

SPEAKER_02 42:19

I'm gonna say that the GLP one cost of medications is probably one, this is the paradigm shift, right? Like this is the moment where the seas change. And I am enjoying the when I'm not saying enjoying, but I think it's just really, really interesting when you I was reading an article about consumption of flour in this country is way, way down. Well, most of the flour was used in highly processed foods. And when people are on GLP1s, that food noise and some of that, like sort of the addiction pathways around eating gets switched either off or really low. And so consumers are are are now demonstrating different behaviors and it's starting to affect the big food industry, right? Like they're like, wait a minute, where'd everybody go? I think in many, many ways, the GLP ones are probably the the, it's like the the chemotherapy for the terrible terminal cancer. Like it is the magic bullet we've been hoping for. And sometimes it works too well. And it works so well that people's ability to like their their connection again, intuitively and instinctively with real appetite, craving and enjoyment of foods, like they just they don't enjoy food anymore. Like they're really, it's like they're so completely numb to it. And so it's always that sort of like, can we get to the lowest therapeutic dose? You know, because it again, sometimes it can be too effective. And you know, there's always again, we're meeting external markers, you're losing weight and your body composition's improving. But oh, by the way, you're malnourished, okay? Like you're iron deficient, your vitamin D is way off, like you're be vi because you're not you're not eating, you know, enough nutrient dense food. So I think when you're working with someone who's on these medications, it's supporting them and working with them to make sure that they are still. Very intentional and their food choices and food selections. And then for those individuals that are, you know, again, we're talking about maintenance and how is it affecting performance? Um, you know, are they able to do the things they want? Because there's athletes that are using them now, right? And so, you know, it's really, really hard to eat like the right, you know, energy intake while on some of these medications at effective doses because it's create, it's like they they just can't. And they even stop hydrating. That was the other thing that's really surprising. Like the thirst mechanisms get turned off. Um, and sometimes it's hard enough to get them to drink enough when they're not on the medication. And that's another challenge. So it just adds another, it's an amazing tool. And it's also something you have to really change your awareness and your um your intentionality around the food choices that you are making when you're on those medications.

SPEAKER_04 44:55

Robin, another thing uh that we're obsessed with in this like longevity field is protein and protein intake and how much protein to take. I love protein. Um, you know, I keep on going back and forth with the way that I feel about it because all the doctors are recommending protein intake. That's not like the magic thing. They're all saying the right words, but I think there is a big difference um when it comes to recommendations as to how much protein. And my question to you is what are you seeing out there? Because I I'm having instances where people can consume lower amounts of protein and maintain or increase muscle mass where others need more protein. And um, there's a wide range of recommendations out there. And there's also recommendations that's everybody's saying, that's really hard to get like a gram of protein per pound of body weight. Um, is is hard to is hard to do, especially with most of the patients being on GLP1s. So we have these people that we need them to caloric restrict because they're overweight or they're like skinny fat. And but we also need them to increase their protein intake at the same time. And those are like the for me, one of the more challenging ones. So, what are your viewpoints on that? How do you decipher how much protein someone um you know really needs? And is it different for different people? Because I've seen people maintain increased muscle mass with a low, not nearly close to recommended protein intake.

SPEAKER_02 46:17

Yeah, so that's a really great question. So, protein is, I will just say in full disclosure, when I went to Italy, I traveled with satchels of whey protein powder. So I'm like one of those weird Americans. So I think uh hitting your ideal protein amount, number one, it's very individualized. Number two, it is entirely dependent on where you are in your training and cycle, right? Meaning, um, how long have you been strength training? So the the longer you've been strength training, actually, the smarter your muscles are and the less protein you need. Like they hang around and are more efficient. So where protein is really, really important in making sure you have the quote right amount of protein is when you're working with untrained or novice like newbies, um, they're just initiating strength training and they are also at the same time um working on a high, like creating a calorie deficit. So the rules for protein, you need less protein when you have enough calories. And the fewer calories you eat below what your maintenance levels are, the higher percentage of your diet needs to come from protein. But I never I always base protein requirements off of fat-free mass and not on body weight. And a lot of the recommendations for protein are just looking at, you know, grams per kilo or kilogram, right? I want to look at their fat-free mass. And so we always start with a body composition, and that's where we start to look at their uh protein requirements. And then I also want to look at factors such as, you know, their age, the intensity and volume of the training that they're doing, and then the kinds and quality of the proteins that they're eating and, you know, sort of like their the variety and the diversity of the foods that they're consuming. So when you're working with a patient or with a client about adequate protein intake, the first thing you want to figure out is let's look at their body composition. If our goal for this person really is we want to lose fat, we want to maintain their lean muscle mass, then we're going to try and get them to eat close to what they're at least one gram of protein per fat-free, per pound of fat-free mass. And so, and that's because we're putting them intentionally in a in a hypocaloric environment. If you're working with someone who is maintaining their weight, then you can go lower in your protein recommendations for those patients. It is the it's the calorie deficit that drives the need for the additional amino acids and the and an additional.

SPEAKER_04 48:43

So calorie deficit and their training volume are the big things that you're looking at.

SPEAKER_02 48:48

Absolutely. So this comes out of research. So back in 2018, I was at our annual conference and two researchers were presenting on how to prevent metabolic adaptation to weight loss. I don't know if you guys remember like the biggest loser studies where they would track those people after they'd been on the show. And they were seeing like this concept of the set point, and boy, their bodies would just race back to or go higher than they started. And so, what were the mechanisms behind that? How could we prevent it as practitioners? Because up until that point, we had been working really hard at weight management and maintenance was just awful. It's like that 95% failure rate for you know maintaining your weight loss. And so Stephanie, Stephanie Moll and Todd Miller, they were researchers at George Washington University. They were presenting at the dietetic conference and they did this presentation on how to prevent or minimize this metabolic adaptation, which is when you lose weight, you lose, yes, you lose fat, but you know, up to 30, sometimes 40% of what else you're losing is muscle. And so you're actually, that's that skinny fat concept, right? Like your weight's coming down, but you're kind of breaking down your own skeletal muscle mass, which sets you up then for a metabolic rate later on that is sort of very, very slow. And so every calorie you eat in maintenance is essentially stored and off we go back to like our set weight. So their research was showing that the greater the calorie deficit, if you institute intentional higher intensity strength training, you're creating that like exercise stimulus, that stressor on the muscles and creating those chemical signalings around repair and growth. So like that anabolic environment, and you put a greater percentage of calories for protein, you can offset some of that muscle loss. And that's when I really totally shifted out of weight management and into sports performance. Because what I realized is if it works for people that are, you know, untrained and trained and it's preserving their lean mass, this is optimizing human health across the board, right? Like why aren't we more widely and broadly adopting these um sort of recommendations in this lifestyle? And so that's kind of like a long story about how I approach protein and why I am so protein um favorable or centric. But it's because most of the time when clients are working with me, it is because generally they're trying to like lean out. That tends to be the thing that's really powerful and initiating for them. Um, even like my, you know, power lifters, like they're trying, like they're they're above their weight class or there's, you know, they need to hit that weight target. And so we start with a slightly higher protein level in intake. But once we've got them at a maintenance calorie level and we do that by measuring their resting metabolic rate, so we know what their calorie requirements are, then we look at activity factors and we do those kinds of things, then the percentage of calories coming from protein drops because you want to make sure that you're hitting like fat and carbs and all the other things for them too.

SPEAKER_04 51:45

How important is timing for you?

SPEAKER_02 51:48

Timing is important in this in the following way. So there used to be that sort of that there was for a while a belief that you had like this magic window within, in and around your training of like an hour to optimize muscle protein synthesis. And what we have discovered is actually the thing that matters the most at the end of the day is have you hit your protein requirement for that period of time? Like, did you get your protein in that day? And if the answer to that is yes, and then we're like, okay, well, let's go from good, better, best. Okay, so good and better would be how are you dividing that protein now? So what we know is that the um after the ingestion of protein, you're in that sort of positive protein balance for about three to four hours. And so we want to keep you kind of consistently while you're awake in that positive balance. So eating every three to four hours, a dose that's around like, you know, 20 to 40 grams seems to be the optimal way to break up what a person's total protein requirement is for the day into like reasonable like refueling breaks every three to four hours. So that's where that 20 to 40 gram range comes into play. So timing is important in that we're eating that those meals steadily throughout the day. But if you're having one of those days where you your tire blows, you you like it's all going sideways and you just end up having two meals, you did your job. Like, okay, check. Um, so it's really about timing is important, but it is secondary in importance to are you meeting your minimum total protein intake.

SPEAKER_04 53:25

Yeah. So we we don't have to obsess too much about post-workout um protein intake. But I mean, I guess if you're doing it every three or four hours, it's gonna happen within that time frame anyway. I'm doing this for Jock because Jock is a is a chronic optimizer. I think he has a little anxiety over if he's getting in the right amount of protein and leucine post-workout and the right thing. So I'm trying to relieve his anxiety here. Thank you.

SPEAKER_02 53:45

Thank you, Leonard. It's like it's like, did I hit my leucine threshold within an hour of training? Like, um so here's here's the one of the things I I try to think about is the fact that most of my clients, when are they fitting in their strength training? It's usually before work. So we're looking at early in the morning. Um, it could be at lunch break or sometimes it's after work. And getting them, you know, so if am I asking them to after work, so they finish their workout, it's now 5 p.m. So now I want them to eat protein and then go have a meal right after that. So if it like that doesn't necessarily make sense. If within, you know, two hours they're gonna make it to a full meal with like 40 grams of protein, then we're within the threshold and and they're great, can providing that, you know, yeah, they've been eating sort of steadily and consistently throughout the day. Um, if you're an early morning exerciser, my best advice for those people is not so much about protein optimization, it's please, please, God, put some fuel in your tank before you go and train. So when you're fasted training, what I have seen time and again, just in my own experience, is the quality of your training is compromised, especially if you're early training. So fasted exercise does not, it's not necessarily the optimal environment. So I'm trying to get them to eat. If they can eat anything, it's a like 150 calories of some carbs or something. Um, you know, get something in your system. And then again, afterwards, are they gonna hit breakfast within like an hour or two? It's really here's the deal. It's like, so if we get really rule-bound around timing, then people start to get really rigid around like, well, I missed that wind of opportunity. I've blown it. And instead of being flexible, like I'm gonna do better, it's like, oh man, I can't do this. Right. And they quit. Like it doesn't feel sustainable. It's like there's no way I can hit this within an hour. Sometimes your intensity is so high after workout, you really can't, and it's like, I can't, I don't feel like eating right now. I need my body to cool off. Um, so I would tell people to feel less pressure and stress around that timing window. It's really about consistently getting in that like dose a couple of times a day or three to four times a day.

SPEAKER_03 55:43

So as long as you get to that that protein donut within some reasonable amount of time.

SPEAKER_04 55:50

I tried a protein donut for the first time.

SPEAKER_02 55:53

Is that a thing? Is that real? Is it protein donut?

SPEAKER_06 55:55

Is it really protein egos now?

SPEAKER_02 55:58

I think they're good. Are you teasing? I'm gonna believe you. I don't think you get a protein ego.

SPEAKER_04 56:04

Yeah. My my daughter, she's 10, and we always talk about protein and sugar. And uh, she came back from the store and she was so excited because she had found a donut that had protein in it. She was she was so excited to show me. So I didn't I didn't break it to her, but I let her taste it. She realized how disgusting it was.

SPEAKER_06 56:20

So how about these like protein concoctions that they now have at you know, Starbucks and Dunkin Donuts with the cold foam protein at uh I don't know what to believe anymore.

SPEAKER_04 56:32

I you know, I really like those David protein bars. They were they were really good and it was a lot of protein, and then the next thing you know, you I don't know who to believe. They have like fake fat in there that's really fat, but it's not fat. It's actually a lot of calories, it's not a lot of calories. I don't even know what to believe anymore.

SPEAKER_06 56:45

That was actually a topic of conversation at at Calm, like back and forth. We were like, oh, what's up with these days? Yeah, I know.

SPEAKER_04 56:52

Because we they they were wanted to sponsor the event and uh they sent us a bunch of free David bars, but then they were in the news that week and uh with some controversy, but yeah.

SPEAKER_02 57:02

Well, so here's here's the thing about so I mean if you like you're doing it a long time, like what is ultimately if if if a if a single nutrient or ingredient is being used to market or promote your product, do you remember like I remember being at a party somewhere and someone was like, I only drink Titos because it's gluten-free. Okay. Yeah, yeah. And I'm like, well, kudos to to this, you know, company for you know, knowing what is really like bubbling and popping in terms of like marketing and interest. But when you're asking yourself, like, is it real what to believe? I think the first thing I'm gonna ask you to do is like, how close to actual food is it? And what percentage of my food matrix, how often am I gonna use this? Is this something that's like a one-off and it's fun? Or am I gonna be drinking this every single day as my breakfast for, you know, like so that's where you start to like rank order how helpful this tool is and how worried I need to be about it? Because if it's something you're interacting with like once, you know, okay, well, that's fine. But if it's something you're doing every day or multiple times a day and you're starting and refueling with a donut, a protein donut, you know, that's or I'm asking you, just like, let's be a little more curious. How does this fit in? Is this how does your body feel when you eat it? And your body's gonna give you information, right? Like it's gonna say, like, yeah, that was actually really great, or man, I I feel terrible. Like, I can't believe I ate that thing. It's gross and I feel terrible. So um again, just it's like being curious and not just listening to the labels, not just looking at the hype, but really figuring out how this is gonna fit into your strategy. How do you how do you feel when you eat it? And like how like again, like how close or is this gonna move you towards your ultimate goal about really nourishing and caring for yourself? Right. Is this a tool? Great. If this is a quick one-off, great. But again, just trying to be, you know, curious about it. Um, you know, and again, I always get a little bit suspicious when they're marketing it based on a single nutrient.

SPEAKER_03 59:05

Yeah, I think you know, the interesting thing about all of this is as you get more and more, the road narrows, right? And you can tell what works for you and what doesn't. I think back to a time when it was like whatever United Airlines was serving. I couldn't tell you, you know, the uh you know, the signal, the noise or whatever. I mean, it was just you're just eating it. And now it's like I'm really in tune with the stuff. Like, oh my gosh, that's terrible. Can't I can't eat that at all. Um, we're coming to that point in time where we need to wrap up. So rapid fire around the table. Christy, what do you got?

SPEAKER_00 59:39

Well, I I think my approach for like we're talking for patients to try to just help them live is the real goal for me is uh not to just help them eat and perform well for today, but to help them create and continue to perform and adapt and thrive for the next 20, 30, 40 years, whatever that might be. And um train and eat for the life you want to live, not the body you want. I you know, I try to make sure patients understand that. And then I know we've talked um like longevity, you know, there's so much. I mean, we it's optimal this, optimal this, and and it becomes very rigid, and longevity requires a lot of flexibility because the body thrives on consistency, not perfection.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:29

Awesome. All right, who's taking the next one?

SPEAKER_04 1:00:33

I'll just say that thank you to Robbie. You give me a lot of things to think about. Um there are some protein things that I would take just because you know I wanted to get the protein uh intake number for the day, and I didn't even think about it that I I feel pretty crappy after I eat that protein bar every time. But I was just didn't even consider that that was even something to think about because I was you know trying to do the right thing. So uh yeah, no, I thank you, Robin. I really you've given me some tips that um will change the way I, you know, I'm kind of thinking about food, and I'm always looking for more of the psychological uh aspects like Frank was talking about because it is it is all in your head. Frank, what do you think?

SPEAKER_05 1:01:12

I mean, we we we we address a lot of things to today, and you know, for me the psychology piece was was the key. Um I was actually helpful to actually learn them from Robin, you know, and I I just think that it's all about balance, like Chrissy talked about. You know, it's just you know, I think to to really kind of to win this fight, you know, when it comes to nutrition, really you just have to approach it with a really balanced approach and and and the long-term goal on how you're going to uh you know consistently improve, really, at the end of the day, you know, and and and team up with smart people like Robin, Christy and Craig out there to just kind of help you, you know, uh guide you throughout the whole thing because there's so many things involved, you know, with underfueling and and all those things that we talked about, that we even addressed, you know. I mean, the minute you start doing going this route, there's going to affect a lot of other things downstream, your testosterone, your T3, all kind of funky stuff that you have no idea about. You know, so so I think I think you know, for everybody out there with with the rise of AI out there and you know, and becoming neurotic on on what you eat is another good way to go. It's really kind of approaching the the you know the the uh the journey with smart people uh that can kind of guide you throughout, you know, this journey.

SPEAKER_03 1:02:30

All right, Craig, what what's the uh what's the final thought here?

SPEAKER_06 1:02:34

Well, my final thought is Robin, I hope you're making the podcast circuit because you are great. What a what a yeah, absolutely great episode and and tons of information. So thank you for being here. This is awesome. And um, I think, you know, again, going back to what Frank said, you know, uh balance, balance is key, right? So we can't think of carbohydrates as the enemy, right? We especially for athletes that are doing like, you know, hypertrophy work or things that are, you know, heavily reliant on glycolysis and explosive uh stuff in the gym, you you need to have you know some carbohydrates in your diet. Uh the flip side of that is that we want to prevent glucose volatility, right? So one of the major drivers of inflammation and oxidative stress is gonna be these rapid spikes, these big swings in blood glucose. So balance averaging things out, you know, uh knowing that we need to hit our protein uh and caloric thresholds, but also thinking of carbohydrates as you know an ally and a friend, uh things that we can utilize appropriately.

SPEAKER_05 1:03:37

Um did you say carbohydrates as a friend?

SPEAKER_06 1:03:41

Yeah, right. I know.

SPEAKER_05 1:03:42

Yeah. I just want to make sure I heard it right. I love it. I love it. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:46

It's uh, strategic use of carbs. Yeah. Think about it. I mean, we have a lot of um, we have the blessing of abundance, we have a blessing of choice, we have a blessing of like options here in our country. And so one of the things I always recommend is, you know, first of all, look at the thing you're about every single time you put food or fuel in your body, you have a choice. It's an opportunity to learn something, it's an opportunity to think about it, it's an opportunity to either to like what are we about to do? And and and not to be like, I don't want people like neurotic and like monitoring every time they eat, don't really have time for that. I hope people don't get there. But what I'm saying is that we actually at the end of the day have a lot of control and choice. And so if you need a tool, because you know, you just wake up in the morning and you're like, I don't have the, I can't, are you putting the best tool that you can in your body? And if you're not sure, reach out, you know, is it get get an expert on your team, reach out to a sports dietitian, reach out to someone who this is what they do because that's, you know, we you can't do it alone. It's it's hard. You need a team of experts and and guides and and mentors around you to bounce information off and to help you, to call you out when you're not, you know what I mean? Like, I mean, it's so um I would just encourage people in their journey to stay open, to stay curious. If they have questions, to to ask an expert and and to um feel free to make mistakes and know that you know, nothing is undone by a me a single meal or a single eating event. Um, and every time you eat, you have the opportunity to make a different choice. And that's kind of a cool thing, I believe. So yeah, but it's it's been a real pleasure. Thank you guys so much for letting me come on and um speak with you guys and share ideas. It's been really great.

SPEAKER_03 1:05:27

That's been fantastic. We thank you so much for being with us today. And as we wrap up, um we'll have some uh information in the show notes about how to find you. And um, we want to just thank everyone for watching. Remember, please like, share, and subscribe, and especially share this one. Um, I know I'm gonna go back and watch it like three times because I'm I'm the slow one in the group and I have to uh kind of keep up. Um it's been a lot of fun, and we'll see you on the next one.