Scripture Matters Podcast - Episode 5 (Chapter 4 - "It Is Finished")

Three words at 3 p.m. on a dark hill changed the way we breathe, pray, and live: “It is finished.” We open with the weight of the crucifixion and ask a hard question many believers avoid—do we live like the cross is final or like our standing with God is fragile? From there, we move through Scripture with clear eyes and calmer hearts, tracing what the Bible actually promises about full, final, and continuous cleansing in Christ.

We examine the myth that some sins outrun grace, then let Acts answer it with surprising mercy—crucifiers forgiven at Pentecost and a persecutor transformed on the Damascus road. We tackle the haunting fear of “blasphemy against the Holy Spirit” and show how context protects tender consciences: Jesus confronted hardened, willful rejection amid undeniable miracles, a setting we can’t reproduce today. That clarity doesn’t soften sin; it stops a misapplied text from crushing sensitive believers.

Then we contrast the Old Testament’s yearly coverings with the New Covenant’s once-for-all removal. Hebrews becomes our anchor: one offering, perfected forever, those being sanctified. Christ sits because the work is truly finished—no hidden fees, no backstage invoice, no spiritual tax after the joy. We hold together perfected standing and ongoing growth, and we highlight 1 John’s promise of continuous cleansing while we walk in the light. The result is a faith that repents quickly, worships freely, and serves from gratitude instead of panic.

If you’ve carried a quiet ledger in your soul—always counting, never certain—this conversation offers better math: paid in full. Listen, share with someone who needs assurance, and subscribe so you never miss a new episode. If this steadied your heart even a little, leave a review and tell us what truth from Scripture anchored you most today.

Transcript

At The Cross: Setting The Scene

SPEAKER_01 0:10

Picture yourself at the scene of the crucifixion. It has been dark now since noon.

SPEAKER_00 0:19

You really don't want to look, but there being crucified on the cross between the two thieves is a son of God.

SPEAKER_01 0:28

You see the soldiers and how they revel at their task. In contrast, you see the grief etched upon the face of Mary, the mother of Jesus, along with Mary Magdalene, and of course the disciple of whom Jesus loved.

SPEAKER_00 0:46

You can hear the mockery being directed towards Jesus. You who destroy the temple and rebuild it in three days, save yourself. If you're the Son of God, come down from the cross.

SPEAKER_01 1:00

The weight of what has been occurring can be clearly seen upon his face. Every time he breathes, you can see the pain and the agony as he lifts up his body so air can enter his lungs.

SPEAKER_00 1:16

And now it's around 3 p.m. And you have to ask yourself, how much longer can he stand this?

SPEAKER_01 1:25

And then you hear him say those three words that will change everything. Cliff, I cannot help but wonder sometimes do we within the Lord's church know what Jesus truly meant when he said it is finished?

SPEAKER_00 1:48

Jonathan, that's uncomfortable. Because most of us would say, of course we do. We believe in the cross.

SPEAKER_01 1:56

But Cliff, let me ask you, do we really live like it is finished, or do we live like it is fragile?

SPEAKER_00 2:06

Because if it was truly finished, then forgiveness isn't hanging on by a thread. Our peace shouldn't vanish every time we stumbled.

Do We Live Like It Is Finished

SPEAKER_01 2:18

So here's the question not for the world, but for us. Folks, when Jesus said it is finished, did he mean it? Stick around with us here today for episode five of Scripture Matters as we answer that question and so much more right here on Scripture Matters. This is Scripture Matters, a podcast presented weekly in partnership with the Waters Road Church of Christ of Pasadena, Texas. If you're looking for a church family, remember Waters Road is the place where you belong. For service times, ministries, and all other information, check out our website at www.wrcorc.org. A big thank you to each episode of Zapper Producer, Richard 2, who always make sure this dream is on track. And also a big thank you to Edwin Thompson and Jennifer Sanford for granting clipping out of the time and the patience to make this dream a reality. Back to Scripture Matters. All right, once again, we welcome you here to our fifth episode of Scripture Matters. I'm Jonathan Sand for the pulpit minister for the Waters Road Church of Christ in Pasadena, Texas. And here with me today, as always, our co-host Cliff Thompson, one of the shepherds at Waters Road Cliff. It is so good to have you back.

SPEAKER_00 3:54

It's great to be here, Jonathan. Great to be with you. Looking very much forward to the lesson that we're going to be able to teach today.

SPEAKER_01 4:03

And it is such an important one, as I promise you out there watching today's episode, you'll feel the same way by the end. This is a very, I would call it a hinge point for us here on Scripture Matters and what we're going to be talking about here today. But before we get into our first segment of the day, we need all of you to do us a big favor out there. As you see on the screen, we need you to help us out by liking, sharing, and subscribing. So if you haven't done so already, reach down there and type that like button. Share today's broadcast here, Scripture Matters. And if you're not already a subscriber, this is the best time to do it, Cliff. Uh, there's this thing out there called an algorithm. I I don't know that much about it, but Cliff, I understand it it plays into how we can share the word.

Show Intro And Community Updates

SPEAKER_00 4:51

It does. And the more we share, the more that we subscribe, hey, the more people we can reach.

SPEAKER_01 4:59

And that's really what we're trying to do. Really, the the key, and we talked about this before we got into this first uh attempt at having a podcast, is we wanted something that was going to really touch the hearts of people. And with Scripture Matters, we came across this book by Jack Wilkie, You Are Saved, a Christian's Assurance. It really hit home with you and I because this is something that you and I personally have dealt with in our life. We want people out there to feel assured uh that they're in a right standing with God.

SPEAKER_00 5:29

Amen to that. And this today is going to be one of those lessons.

SPEAKER_01 5:34

Absolutely. All right, before we begin to digest this chapter, Cliff, let me ask you a question. And this will be for my benefit and for the benefit of everyone out there watching this episode of Scripture Matters. How long have you been a member of the Lord's church?

SPEAKER_00 5:50

Good gracious, Jonathan. I was introduced to the church through vacation Bible school. Uh I was in the third grade, and my friend lived right up the street, and he was going, and he asked me to go. And so I did. And as they say, the rest is history.

Why Assurance Matters For Believers

SPEAKER_01 6:09

Cliff, as you talk about that, I think about how remarkable it is. You know, one invitation, just giving one invitation, one person sharing the truth with someone else can affect generation after generation to come, learning and knowing the truth about Jesus and his church. And I'm here today because someone many, many years ago, uh shared the gospel with my grandfather, Lige Geislin. And I think about my life today, how different my life would be if someone hadn't cared enough to share the gospel with my grandfather, who then uh my mom and all her many brothers and sisters obeying the gospel. And I'm thankful uh for that shared uh uh message of the gospel. And and part of what we're we're sharing here today is just the fact how, like you said, it was one invitation for you. It changed your life. I can't imagine being away from the Lord's church.

SPEAKER_00 7:09

You know, it's remarkable to have the truth, Jonathan, and to have the assurance that Jack is teaching us through this wonderful book.

Survey Shock: “It Isn’t Finished”

SPEAKER_01 7:17

Yes, it absolutely is, Cliff. And I want to say this if folks out there have read this chapter, they'll understand uh what I'm about to say. When Jack Wilkie starts off chapter four, he does it with a gas pedal stuck to the floorboard. I mean, we're flying down the highway. And the reason I say this is because he begins this chapter referencing uh what he calls an informal survey conducted by a group called Focus Press. Now, if you've read the chapter, you understand what I'm talking about here. The question was directed to people who grew up in the churches of Christ, just like you and I, Cliff. Uh, folks who were baptized into Jesus Christ, Christ added them to his church, and they were part of our assemblies and later left. In this survey, they were asked, why did they? And in the end, what made their choice um clear to them to leave the Lord's church?

SPEAKER_00 8:23

You know, and that should make us pause, Jonathan, because it means whatever comes next isn't theoretical. These aren't outsiders critiquing our doctrine. Jonathan, these are people shaped by our preaching, our classes, our language. And then they walked away. So we don't get to just dismiss this topic. We have to dive in and really, really examine it.

SPEAKER_01 8:54

And as you can imagine, Cliff, the answers, just to think about it, they had to be so diverse. However, one response stood out more than all the others. And Wilkie quotes it directly in this chapter. And I want to share it with all the folks out there watching today's episode. Wilkie quotes this from Focus Press, and it says this this is someone who's left the Lord's church. This is what they said. There is no real understanding in the church of Christ of the words Jesus spoke, it is finished. The person goes on to say, it isn't finished from members of the churches of Christ.

SPEAKER_00 9:38

Yeah, Jonathan, to say it plainly, this former member of the churches of Christ said that there was no real understanding of these words Jesus spoke just before he gave up his spirit. It is finished.

SPEAKER_01 9:55

And let's let's make this very clear. That's not mild criticism. And it's also very specific. The claim isn't that we deny the cross. No, the claim is that the finality of the cross didn't form uh the consciences of those within the Lord's church that they knew. In other words, he again he says it isn't finished for members, and he's talking about members of the churches of Christ. And what that really means, what he's saying, is that in practice, something still feels outstanding, um, conditional, incomplete, or dependent. And and because of that, Cliff, Jack Wilkie says, this right here, chapter four, may very well be the most important chapter of this entire book. And I think he's signaling uh to us, brother, if we get this wrong, everything else is gonna wobble.

SPEAKER_00 10:54

Because assurance doesn't collapse first at obedience, it collapses at the cross. If someone is taught, either explicitly or implicitly, that Jesus started something, but then you are now a hundred percent solely responsible for maintaining it, then every command becomes a threat. Every warning it becomes a panic button, and every failure it becomes a crisis.

Does Obedience Undercut The Cross

SPEAKER_01 11:27

So with that in mind, let's press this implication that the focus press survey response raises. Let's think about it for a moment. Have we preached obedience so strongly that we've unintentionally communicated that the cross begins salvation, but that it's our responsibility to maintain it?

SPEAKER_00 11:54

And if that's the atmosphere someone grows up in, here's what it looks like. You become a sincere spiritual accountant, you start saying, Did I repent correctly? Did I confess quickly enough? Did I miss something? Am I currently in? Am I currently out? That is a miserable way to live. And it turns it finish into a slogan instead of a settled verdict.

Full Cleansing: No Sin Too Big

SPEAKER_01 12:25

All right, with that in mind, let's move now to segment two. Um, because from that opening, which was already dramatic enough, Wilkie pivots into what he calls full cleansing. Okay. And the first objection he addresses isn't denominational, no, it's personal.

SPEAKER_00 12:48

I've done too much wrong. Now that sentence can sound humbling. It really can, but it also assumes we've correctly located the boundary of mercy. It assumes there is a category of sin that outruns the blood of Jesus.

SPEAKER_01 13:08

Yeah, and and Wilkie answers by anchoring to the promise in Scripture. John 3 16 offers salvation to whoever believes. Of course, we we understand that to mean faith and action, right? Whoever believes, no asterisk. And then first John chapter 1, verse 7 says, the blood of Jesus cleanses us from all sin.

SPEAKER_00 13:38

If the Spirit used the word all, then shrinking it isn't caution, it's unbelief. All can't mean mostly, or all up to a certain point, or all unless you've repeated it too many times.

SPEAKER_01 13:59

And he also, Jack Wilkie, he reinforces it with a story that we see in uh Acts. The whole storyline, really. In Acts 2, think about it, Peter is preaching to people who are complicit in that very crucifixion that we started off today's episode talking about. And the offer is forgiveness. And in Acts 9, you have Saul. He isn't merely misguided, is he? No, he's hostile, he's violent, and yet in the end, we see him tasting of Christ's salvation.

SPEAKER_00 14:38

Yeah, and that matters because it breaks the myth that grace is reserved for good people who make small mistakes. If forgiveness reaches crucifiers and persecutors, the issue then, Jonathan, is not whether the blood can reach you or reach I or me. The issue is whether you will trust what God says it can do.

SPEAKER_01 15:04

Yeah, Cliff, with that in mind, let me ask you a question because this is something that's been on my mind. Um, do you remember someone out there by the name of Jeffrey Dahmer?

SPEAKER_00 15:15

Oh, yes, sir, I certainly do. Uh, from 1978 to 1991, that man was charged with the murder and dismemberment of 17 men and boys. Jonathan, he was involved in some of the most heinous crimes you could even imagine, as well as of all things, Jonathan, cannibalism.

SPEAKER_01 15:41

Yeah, exactly. And by the end of his trial, Cliff, he was sentenced, get this, to 15 life sentences. But on May 10th, after studying with him for what I understand about four weeks, the minister uh of the Lord's Church in Madison, Wisconsin, by the name of Roy Ratcliffe. Roy taught Jeffrey Dahmer the gospel. And Jeffrey Dahmer was baptized in the Jesus Christ Jesus Christ in a prison whirlpool. And Ratcliffe even wrote a book uh about the entire situation. And if you're not familiar with that book, you can check it out. It's called Dark Journey, Deep Grace.

SPEAKER_00 16:34

You know, Jonathan, there were those that reported they did not believe that Dahmer really repented at all. It was just all an act. And some have even said that he didn't deserve to be baptized.

Dahmer, Mercy, And Sufficiency

SPEAKER_01 16:49

And Cliff, that that reaction I think reveals something within us. We instinctively want categories. We want a line somewhere we where we can say, oh, not that one. But the gospel pushes back on all of our categories.

SPEAKER_00 17:11

Yeah, because when someone says he didn't deserve it, what they often mean is his sins are way too much. And then the question becomes, too much for whom? Too much for our own comfort or too much for the blood of Jesus?

SPEAKER_01 17:31

I'll tell you what a shameful thing to say, too. I mean, uh, you know, we we ought to know this. We taught it, right? Romans 6 23 pretty clearly says that God's holy nature, he is who set the penalty for sin, which is death.

SPEAKER_00 17:50

And yes, Jonathan, and uh Dahmer himself even said in his own words that he deserved to be put to death. But the state of Wisconsin doesn't have the death penalty, and that's why that there's 15 consecutive life sentences that was given to him.

SPEAKER_01 18:09

And you're right about that, but then there is also um his great love, which is reflected, you know, we're talking about God here and the giving of his only begotten son, Jesus Christ. John 3 16 tells it very plainly, which leads us up to a very valuable point. At the end of that verse, again, there is no asterisk which says, you know, some exclusions apply. We've seen that on things, right? There's no footnotes, there are no exceptions.

SPEAKER_00 18:47

And there's a reason for this, Jonathan, and that is the blood of Jesus is sufficient, which is exactly what you said all the way back in our very first podcast.

SPEAKER_01 18:58

You know, when we struggle to accept the seriousness of someone's sins being forgiven, okay? When we struggle to accept that, what we're actually doing, Cliff, is we are diminishing the sacrifice of Jesus Christ, acting as if, no, there's no way his blood could truly wash away that sin or every sin.

SPEAKER_00 19:24

And scriptures back that up, both in the old as well as in the new testament, Jonathan.

Scripture Proofs For Total Cleansing

SPEAKER_01 19:30

Yeah, and to help us understand that, Cliff, let's just take our Bibles and look at some scriptures for references here, starting with the prophet Isaiah. Uh, my favorite uh of all the prophecies, Isaiah chapter 53, right? It's such a beautiful prophecy. Isaiah 53, if you have your Bibles, look with us now to verses four and five. Isaiah the prophet says, Surely he has borne our griefs and carried our sorrows. It says, but he was pierced for our transgressions, he was crushed for our iniquities. Upon him was the chastisement that brought us peace, and by his wounds we have been healed.

SPEAKER_00 20:14

Now that is from the Old Testament. Folks, let's look now at one from the New Testament. Jonathan, a book and a reference that you and I are extremely familiar with. Folks, look at Romans chapter 6. Romans chapter 6, and let's look at verses 3 through 7. The Bible says, Do you not know that all of us who were baptized into Christ Jesus was baptized into his death? And going down further a little bit further, we know that our old self was crucified with him. And going down a little bit further, for one who has died has been set free from sin.

The “Unforgivable Sin” In Context

SPEAKER_01 20:55

And Wilkie Cliff, he he makes a great point here. If you notice, again, we said there is no exception clause that the blood of Jesus Christ is able to cleanse you of every sin that you have, just like we said with Jeffrey Dahmer, right? Right. The blood of Jesus Christ is an is more than enough to erase any and every sin that you might have in your life, and to make you, and I love the description, to make you as as white as snow. All right. Um, let's look ahead now to something that you and I, when we were reading this chapter, this was like a big neon sign just blinking at us. And we we've talked about this, we've debated it back and forth a little bit, but let's talk about something that is a pretty popular topic with people within the Lord's church, and that's something called blasphemy of the Holy Spirit. Okay. Um, Wilkie doesn't stop uh with. Reassurance. He goes further with that, right? He argues that the specific sins Jesus described, and one of those here in this chapter, is blasphemy against the Holy Spirit is not something. Now, listen carefully, folks. Don't want you to misunderstand this. Blasphemy against the Holy Spirit is not something that we are even able or capable of committing in the same way today. Um that that's a stronger claim, um, I think, Cliff, than many folks listening are are used to hearing.

SPEAKER_00 22:39

It certainly is, Jonathan, because for a lot of folks within the Church of Christ now, blasphemy of the Holy Spirit has functioned like a shadow, a vague, undefined line that some are afraid that they may have crossed. So, Jonathan, what exactly do you think Wilkie is arguing here?

SPEAKER_01 23:00

Yeah, I love the way you describe that, like a shadow, something lurking in the shadows. Like we talked about last week, that monster in the shadows. Like we don't really know what it is, but again, if you overestimate it or underestimate it, we talked about that last week, and it really applies here. But Wilkie points back to the context, and context is King. That's right. He takes the context in the Gospels. You have Jesus who is performing visible, undeniable miracles, works that we know are empowered by the Spirit. And the Pharisees, they aren't confused, they aren't doubting. No, they are deliberately attributing what they know is divine power and giving the credit to Satan. And what that is, Cliff, that is hardened, willful rejection in the face of direct revelation.

SPEAKER_00 23:54

And you know, Wilkie argues that this specific historical circumstance, seeing the incarnate Christ performing miracles by the Holy Spirit and then deliberately calling it demonic, it's not reproducible today, Jonathan.

SPEAKER_01 24:12

No, it's not. So here's something he's not saying sin is lighter today. That's not what he's communicating here. He's saying, and listen carefully, that this precise form of sin um required a level of revelation that we don't encounter in the same way today. We don't have Jesus walking around amongst us uh producing these uh miracles and bright light and open fashion. Um, which, if that's true, and it is, Cliff, that would mean that a fear that so many Christians I've heard over the years in the church carry with them. Well, what if I committed the unforgivable sin of blasphemy against a what if I did that? That that fear is a little misplaced.

SPEAKER_00 25:00

Yeah, because the kind of hard-settled hostility Jesus has described is not the trembling concern of a sensitive conscience here.

SPEAKER_01 25:12

No, it it it it really let me let me ask you something. We talked about this in the very beginning. This is the book review, which means we don't have to always agree with everything the author, here in this case, Jack Wilkie, puts forth in his his book. But before reading uh Wilkie's argument here, had you heard this position before? Um, that blasphemy against the Holy Spirit in this specific form is not something that we are capable of committing today. I think that's a fair question. I hope others will think about that, because some of us, like we said, grew up in the Lord's church. And we, like you said, we've kind of heard it described in this undefined, like it's an ever-present danger. We just can't see it, uh, almost like a spiritual landmine.

SPEAKER_00 26:04

You know, that's an interesting question, Jonathan. I'd heard different theories over the years. Some defined it broadly as any persistent rejection of the truth, others defined it emotionally like saying something angrily about God. But Wilkie's argument here is narrower. He roots it in historical context, and honestly, that matters because if the sin required direct, visible acknowledgement that the miracles performed by Jesus was done so by the power of Satan, then most believers worrying about it today are worrying about something that they are not even capable of doing.

Why Context Protects Tender Hearts

SPEAKER_01 26:56

And when you think about that, Cliff, it changes really and true the emotional weight. Because this person who fears they've committed the unforgivable sin, they're not displaying that hardened defiance of the Pharisees. No, they're displaying concern. And concern is not hostility.

SPEAKER_00 27:19

In fact, the very anxious, the the I'm sorry, the they're anxious over it reveals a conscience that is still responsive. I mean, they're they still want to change, and that's the opposite of what Jesus is even describing here. The Pharisees weren't afraid. Matter of fact, they were entrenched.

SPEAKER_01 27:44

So when Wilkie makes this argument, again, we're telling you, folks, he's not minimizing sin. What he's doing is protecting tender consciences from misapplying a text that was never aimed at trembling believers. And you got to understand, folks, that fits the larger theme of this entire chapter. Think about it. When Jesus said it is finished, we've got to be very, very careful not to reintroduce fear through misinterpretation. Um, any other thoughts, Cliff, though, before we move on to this topic of blasphemy and the unforgivable sin?

SPEAKER_00 28:27

You know, as you said before, you and I have discussed it, and a lot of people in the church may have never heard this particular argument, but historically and and literally factually, Jonathan, I don't see how it can be interpreted any other way.

From Covering To Removal: Atonement

SPEAKER_01 28:46

No, when we say historically, folks, we're not talking about history books. We're talking about the Bible. We're talking about what is written down, the events that happened in Jesus' life. Just like I got up this morning, I brushed my teeth uh and got my hair done and got a haircut this evening. That that's history for me, right? Well, when Jesus walked this earth and the gospel writers recorded the events uh of that particular day, it's history. And it's just as real as history as the history of this day. So again, do not uh forget that context matters. Context is king, even in this matter of blasphemy uh against the Holy Spirit or the unforgivable sin, as it's often called. All right, let's move on now. I think we did that justice. Let's move on now to section four. Uh, in segment four, we're talking about atonement and covering. And I love this section of the chapter because Wilkie moves from this blasphemy talk to the language of atonement. And first, talking about the um Old Testament sacrificial system, and under the law, we know that sacrifices were repeated. You have the day of atonement that came about each year, and you gotta know, folks, that repetition was very much a part of the lesson.

SPEAKER_00 30:14

Yeah, because repetition signals incompleteness. The system teaches sin is serious and sacrifice is necessary, but it also teaches the consciousness is not finally settled. Hebrews makes the contrast explicit. Animal blood cannot ultimately take away sins.

SPEAKER_01 30:40

So when we hear Jesus say it is finished, we have to ask, hey, is the cross just another covering that must be continually reapplied? Or folks, is it the decisive removal that the old system was ultimately pointing toward?

SPEAKER_00 31:04

And Hebrew answers with finality. Hebrews 10 14 says, For by one offering, he, that's Jesus, has perfected forever those who are being sanctified, sanctified, setting apart. That's not fragile language, folks. One offering, perfected forever.

SPEAKER_01 31:29

Yeah, and that verse really holds together, Cliff, two truths that we often separate. You said those two words, perfected forever. That speaks to standing, okay. Being sanctified speaks to growth, okay? Growth, as we know, is ongoing. The offering is not, okay.

SPEAKER_00 31:58

And I think that's why Hebrews emphasize this posture because Christ offered himself and what happened and sat down. Now, old covenant priests, they stand daily because the work is never done. Christ sits because the sacrifice achieved what it was meant to achieve.

SPEAKER_01 32:19

Yeah, uh the idea is he shed his blood once and for all, right? And then he sat down at the right hand of the Father. All right, folks, let me let me ask a question. Uh, how many of you out there watching today's episode? How many of you ever remember the prices, right? I'm not talking about the new version with Drew Carey, I'm talking about the real version with old Bob Barker, right? Um, whenever somebody had the chance to go on that show, and and remember how they would be standing there with Bob and they'd open that curtain, and and the announcers would say, It's a new car, right? And there was you see the contestant jump around excited, you know, just so happy. Um, but there there there was um there was something that you didn't see on camera, wasn't there, Cliff?

One Offering, Perfected Forever

SPEAKER_00 33:09

Yeah, Jonathan. What you didn't see was all the moaning and groaning and tears of all the taxes the constant the the contestant was gonna have to pay just to be able to bring that new car home.

SPEAKER_01 33:24

Yeah, exactly. I heard stories about people who just took cash settlements and didn't take didn't take the cars because the tax was, you know, so severe. And you gotta remember where that was filmed at, right? So that'll tell you a little little thing about tax. But you have somebody here, what we're saying in this this analogy, you have somebody that goes from this roof ceiling high, like on top of the world, to a basement dwelling low in just uh a matter of minutes.

SPEAKER_00 33:53

Yeah, mercy, because salvation has no backstage invoice. The joy isn't followed by hidden fees.

SPEAKER_01 34:03

Yeah, think about it. Uh if you're out there struggling with this, I've got some great news for you. When you came up out of that watery grave of baptism, you ride that roof-high ceiling, and you never have to worry about God calling you backstage and telling you, hey, now there's some taxes uh that you gotta pay me. Uh, it doesn't work that way. And Wilkie says something here, I think, Cliff, that just hits the point home. And I'm gonna quote this. He said, When Jesus' blood washes our sins away, there is no hidden fee that we must pay with our good works. It is finished.

SPEAKER_00 34:45

Jonathan, let's look back at a word that is used a lot in the Old Testament here. The word is atonement. Now, the law of Moses speaks of the practice of atoning for your sins, right?

SPEAKER_01 34:58

Sure does. And that's that's a good place to go, Cliff, because when you think of atoning in the Old Testament, the primary word in the Hebrew is the word keper. And it's derived from another uh uh Hebrew word called uh kefar. And it most commonly means to cover over. For instance, in Leviticus chapter 16, uh the Bible speaks of that day of atonement. And on that day, two goats were chosen. One goat was sacrificed, and the other had the sins of the people ceremonially transferred to it, and then it was released into the wilderness. Uh, and that's where we get the phrase, even to this day, the scapegoat.

SPEAKER_00 35:51

So by doing this, the sins of the individual was covered over for a period of one year. Then it had to be done all over again.

SPEAKER_01 36:03

Exactly. And it was not a taking away or a removal of sins. Listen, folks, it was only a covering over of sins.

SPEAKER_00 36:16

Then, Jonathan, if the same meaning for atoning was left out of the New Testament, then it was done so because under the New Covenant, our sins are not just covered over, are they?

No Backstage Invoice For Salvation

SPEAKER_01 36:29

No, absolutely not, Cliff. And that's listen, folks, that's because the blood of Jesus doesn't just cover over our sins. No, listen, folks, it totally and completely washes them away. Folks, let me say that again. If you didn't hear me, the blood of Jesus does not just cover your sins. No, it washes them completely away as far as the east is to the west, totally and completely removing them. And again, I hope you've had your Bible or your Bible out with us here in this episode. Join me now over in the 10th chapter of the book of Hebrews. Hebrews chapter 10. Uh, Cliff and I both agree this is just too important to gloss over. Hebrews chapter 10, verses 1 and 2, we're reading out of the NLT, tells us, it says the old system under the law of Moses was only a shadow. It goes on to say, the sacrifices under that system repeated again and again. It says, if they could have provided perfect cleansing, the sacrifices would have stopped, and their feelings of guilt would have simply disappeared.

SPEAKER_00 37:44

And looking at verses three through seven, those sacrifices actually reminded them of their sins year after year. A little bit further, it says, It is not possible for the blood of bulls and goats to take away sins. And then you hear, look, I have come to do your will, O God.

SPEAKER_01 38:09

And then Hebrews chapter 10, verses 8, 9, and 10 tells us he cancels the first covenant in order to put the second into effect. Goes on to say, We were made holy by the sacrifice of the body of Jesus Christ once, again for all time.

SPEAKER_00 38:32

And finishing out with Hebrews 10, 11 through 14, under the old covenant, the priest stands offering the same sacrifices again and again. But our high priest offered himself to God as a single sacrifice, then he sat down. For by that one offering he forever made perfect those who are being made holy.

Continuous Cleansing While We Walk

SPEAKER_01 39:02

Good folks, what Cliff and I are trying to tell you here today, it's good news that when you come in contact with the blood of Jesus to the watery grave of baptism, folks, your sins are not just covered over as they were when the blood of bulls and goats were sacrificed. No, as the New Testament clearly teaches, we have a better sacrifice. And when Jesus offered himself, his blood was sufficient enough to wash away all of our sins, not just those little itty bitty sins. No, every single one of them, large or small, even every sin of the man we referenced earlier in this episode, even one Jeffrey Dahmer. All right, uh Cliff, now move on to our final segment here today. Segment five, and we've entitled this one as Jack Did, Continuous Cleansing. We've looked at full cleansing, we've did final cleansing, but what if that was all there was to this story? Where would that leave us? If it would leave us, you know, feeling as good as possible until the last time we asked for forgiveness.

SPEAKER_00 40:22

And this is where the idea of continual cleansing matters, Jonathan. The blood of Jesus is constantly working to cleanse those who are walking in the light. We know that from 1 John 1:7. Now, thankfully, the blood of Jesus doesn't wash away our sins up until baptism and then leave us on our own thereafter.

SPEAKER_01 40:45

No, you're exactly right, Cliff. And to prove that, let's just show it from the scriptures. First is Acts 10 and verse 43, which tells us everyone who believes in him receives forgiveness of sins through his name. Acts 13 and verse 38 tells us, through this man, that being Jesus, forgiveness of sins is proclaimed to you. Acts 26, 18, that they may receive forgiveness of sins. Colossians 1 14, in whom we have redemption, the forgiveness of sins. And then back in 1 John chapter 2 and verse 12, your sins are forgiven for his name's sake.

SPEAKER_00 41:32

Jonathan, I think Wilkie makes a great point here. He says that forgiveness is not something that happens to you, it's something that you have.

SPEAKER_01 41:44

Yeah, and that's so true. And you got to remember, Hebrews tells us it says, for by a single offering he has perfected for all time those who are being sanctified. And you have to understand that the blood of Jesus did something no animal sacrifice could ever do. It removed sin, not covered it up so God couldn't see it, but washed it away so it is no longer there.

SPEAKER_00 42:14

And Jonathan, that's important because those sins are not just filed away to be brought back up at a later time. They are gone.

SPEAKER_01 42:24

Yes, sir.

SPEAKER_00 42:24

And that changes the way a believer breathes, prays, repents, and even worships.

SPEAKER_01 42:33

Now, we're smart enough to admit, as the apostle Paul admitted, we're still weak in the flesh. And God certainly knows that we are. But while we're walking in the light, when we stumble and fall, God helps us praise his name, that he helps us back to our feet. And the blood of Jesus, it washes the dirt of sin off of us. And that's a beautiful imagery. Well, um, Cliff, before we close out this chapter, and we've covered a lot here today. Um remember, folks, because of the cross of Jesus and his precious blood that was sacrificed for us, um, your sins are forgiven and forgotten. And those uh include the sins you committed yesterday, the sins you committed today, and the sins that you will commit tomorrow, unfortunately. That's just the reality of it. All right. Well, that uh brings us here to the conclusion of chapter four entitled It Is Finished. This episode is almost finished. Um, Clint, though, before we close out, any final thoughts have uh yourself here on this entire matter?

Forgiveness You Have, Not Just Get

SPEAKER_00 43:52

Jonathan, when Jesus says it is finished, I wonder what the devil thought when he heard those words. Did he think finally I've defeated the Son of God? You know, did he feel like one of those a new car feeling? But he was soon to experience that. Now here are all the taxes feelings. Because it is finished is an accounting term, and it that term is paid in full. Jesus was saying when he said it is finished that he had paid in full, eliminating the debt that we and all mankind owes, the debt of sin. Thank God he said it is finished, Jonathan.

Weekly Schedule And Farewell

SPEAKER_01 44:42

Man, I think you've said it all perfectly there. Uh and with that, we will go ahead and uh put a check mark here by chapter four of Jack Wilkie's book, It Is Finished, and episode five here of Scripture Matters. But before we go, a couple things that we want to share with you out there. Listen, if this conversation has steadied you in just the least little bit in helping you to understand a little bit better what Jesus meant by it is finished, uh, as we said last week, Cliff, we are overjoyed, right, brother?

SPEAKER_00 45:18

Amen to that. That's what you and I want out of this podcast.

SPEAKER_01 45:22

All right, folks, before we go, don't forget, you can catch a new episode of Scripture Matters each Friday afternoon at 3:30 p.m. on YouTube, Facebook, as well as Apple Podcasts. So once again, for Jonathan Sanford, for my brother Cliff Thompson, we thank you so much for spending your time here with us today on Scripture Matters. But until next time, remember, folks, Scripture Matters. Goodbye, everybody.