Scripture Matters Podcast - Episode 9 (Chapter 7 "Born Again")

The moment that should anchor your confidence can become the moment you quietly interrogate for years. If you’ve ever laid awake replaying your baptism and asking, “Did I understand enough, was I sincere enough, did it actually work,” you’re not alone and you’re not crazy for feeling the tension.

We walk through chapter seven of Jack Wilkie’s You Are Saved: A Christian’s Assurance with one goal: move from self-focused uncertainty to God-centered confidence. We start where the gospel starts: nothing cleanses sin but the blood of Jesus. Then we unpack a sticky illustration that reshapes how many people define faith, the football “completing the catch” idea. Faith is not just mental agreement; it follows through in a unified response that includes confession, repentance, and baptism, not as competing checkpoints but as one movement of trust.

From there we do what clears away a lot of fog: we simply read the passages. Acts 2:38 on forgiveness, Mark 16:16 on salvation, Romans 6 on death, burial, and resurrection, Colossians 2:12 on “faith in the working of God,” Acts 22:16 on washing away sins, and 1 Peter 3:21 on baptism and a good conscience through the resurrection of Jesus Christ. The big turning point is this: assurance collapses when we build it on our memory and emotions, but it strengthens when we trust what God said he would do and believe he did it.

If you know someone stuck in that cycle of confidence, doubt, fear, and starting over, share this conversation with them, then subscribe, leave a review, and tell us what questions you still have about baptism and Christian assurance.

Transcript

The Quiet Doubt After Baptism

SPEAKER_01 0:10

What if the very moment that is supposed to give you the most confidence is the one you quietly question the most?

SPEAKER_00 0:19

Yeah. And most people won't say that out loud, but it's there.

SPEAKER_01 0:25

That's right. It's there when you lay your head down to sleep at night. It's there whenever you mess up. It's there whenever you think back to that moment, standing in the water, and you start asking questions you never thought you'd ask.

SPEAKER_00 0:44

Did I really understand it? Did I really mean it? Did I do it for the right reasons?

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And maybe the biggest question of all, did it actually work?

SPEAKER_00 1:00

That's the tension, isn't it? Because on one hand, you've got all these verses. They're clear, they're powerful, and they're direct.

SPEAKER_01 1:12

Baptism now saves you. Wash away your sins, buried with him, raised to walk in newness of life.

SPEAKER_00 1:24

And yet, somehow people walk away from that moment unsure instead of assured.

SPEAKER_01 1:32

Which is really crazy when you think about it. Because baptism is supposed, it's supposed to be a beginning, not a question mark.

SPEAKER_00 1:44

But for a lot of people, it becomes exactly that. A question mark that follows them for years and years.

SPEAKER_01 1:52

And honestly, here is where it becomes even more complicated. Yes. Because some people don't just question it, they redo it. Again and again. Just trying to fix something they're not even sure is really broken to begin with.

SPEAKER_00 2:12

So now the question shifts is not just what happens at baptism.

SPEAKER_01 2:19

No, it's why doesn't it always produce, here's that word, assurance.

SPEAKER_00 2:26

Yeah, yeah. And maybe even deeper than that, Jonathan, are we misunderstanding what God actually did at that moment? Well, that's where we're headed today. Because we're not starting over, folks, we're stepping forward.

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We've spent the very first half of our study of this book setting the foundation.

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Now we're asking, why isn't the foundation holding for so many people?

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And here's the deal.

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If we don't answer that honestly, then we'll keep seeing the same cycle confidence, doubt, fear, and starting all over again.

SPEAKER_01 3:04

Folks, this is where it gets real. So let's talk about it today. Right here on Scripture Matters. This

Welcome And How To Reach Us

SPEAKER_01 3:14

is Scripture Matters, a podcast produced and published in cooperation with the Waters Road Church of Christ. If you live in the Houston area and need a church home, Waters Road is the place where you belong. If you need more information about Waters Road, check out their website at www.wrc.org. Our thanks each week goes out to Richard 2 for the behind-the-scenes help in producing each episode, as well as to our wives and families for supporting us in this effort. Let's get back to another episode of Scripture Matters. Once again, we welcome you to the Scripture Matters podcast. We're glad you're with us today for what is our ninth episode. I'm Jonathan Samper, the pulpit minister for the Waters Road Church of Christ in Pasadena, Texas.

SPEAKER_00 4:19

And I'm Cliff Thompson. I serve as one of the elders and Bible class teachers at the Waters Road Church of Christ alongside of Jonathan.

SPEAKER_01 4:26

Hey, folks, before we jump into episode nine here with Cliff and our new chapter, we just wanted to share with our audience that if you haven't had the opportunity to view episode eight, take a moment to do so.

SPEAKER_00 4:41

Yeah, because that midway interview with the author, Jack Wilkie, was just incredible.

SPEAKER_01 4:50

It really, really was. The insight, the clarity, the way he walked us through some of those key ideas. You know, we went into it with some expectations, but it honestly exceeded all of our expectations.

SPEAKER_00 5:04

Yes, it did. And I think what stood out the most was how it helped kind of connect everything we've been studying up to this point.

SPEAKER_01 5:12

Yeah, it really did. And it didn't just review the material, it strengthened it.

SPEAKER_00 5:19

And it really set that stage for where we're heading next here in this book.

SPEAKER_01 5:24

So as we move into the now second half of this book written by Jack Wilkie, you are saved a Christian's assurance.

SPEAKER_00 5:34

We're doing so with a far clearer understanding and honestly, a deeper appreciation for what's being taught.

SPEAKER_01 5:43

I will give that a hearty amen, Cliff. And as well, listen, I just want to thank our audience for a moment for the great feedback that you've given us from last week's episode as well as our review of the very first half of this book as a whole.

SPEAKER_00 6:03

And folks, as always, if you have questions about anything we discuss on today's episode or in any of the previous episodes of Scripture Matters, we'd love to hear from you.

SPEAKER_01 6:15

That's right. And you can reach out to both Cliff and myself by using the email addresses or the social media information you see right here on your screen. Folks, please do that.

SPEAKER_00 6:27

And folks, we really mean this.

SPEAKER_01 6:30

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 6:31

This isn't just a one-way conversation with Jonathan and I talking to you. If something stands out to you or you've got a question, we'd be glad and even happy to connect with you.

SPEAKER_01 6:42

That's right. And listen, the the feedback and the response to last week's episode, uh, it it really put a smile on Cliff and Meyer face. Listen, it was great. Over 4,000 people watched last week's episode, and it really touched our hearts. So thank you to everybody out there. I know you agree, Cliff.

SPEAKER_00 7:03

Amen on that. And here we go with another one.

Nothing But The Blood

SPEAKER_00 7:06

Let's did it.

SPEAKER_01 7:07

All right, chapter number seven opens uh in a way that immediately centers everything. What can wash away my sin? Nothing but the blood of Jesus.

SPEAKER_00 7:24

Yeah. And that's not just a familiar hymn, Jonathan. That's a theological statement you just said.

SPEAKER_01 7:32

It really, really is. Because before we ever get into baptism, before we get into response, before we get into anything, quite frankly, we're grounded in the reality. Listen, hear this, folks. We're grounded in the reality. There is only one thing that actually cleanses our sin.

SPEAKER_00 7:54

And folks, it's not us. No, it's not our effort, it's not our goodness, and folks, it's not our knowledge. As the song says, nothing but the blood of Jesus.

SPEAKER_01 8:07

And I really think that matters because if you miss that at the very start, then everything else in this chapter is going to feel like you are adding something to salvation. And I can promise you, Jack, myself, Cliff Thompson, we're not building a system where we contribute. Um, what uh Cliff, myself, Jack, what he's establishing in this book is that the power has already been defined.

SPEAKER_00 8:40

So then the question becomes, folks, if the blood is what saves, how do we come into contact with it?

SPEAKER_01 8:49

That question, how do we come in contact with the blood of Jesus Christ is the key to understanding salvation and assurance. And to help us begin to grasp this biblical concept, Cliff, Jack brilliantly shifts into an illustration that honestly just sticks with you.

Completing The Catch Faith

SPEAKER_01 9:16

The football catch.

SPEAKER_00 9:18

Yeah, because everybody understands this, Jonathan. You can reach out, you can get your hands on the ball, but that doesn't mean you've completed the catch.

SPEAKER_01 9:29

No, that's right. There's more to it. You've got to secure the football, you've got to follow through, you've got to finish the process of the catch all the way to the ground.

SPEAKER_00 9:42

And his point is that's what faith looks like. Faith isn't just reaching, it's completing.

SPEAKER_01 9:51

And I think that's where this chapter starts pressing on a misunderstanding that a lot of people out there have, which it is really, when it comes down to it, is reducing faith down to just mental agreement.

SPEAKER_00 10:11

I believe in Jesus, but nothing moves beyond that. And listen, folks, when Jonathan and I tell you biblically, that never where faith stops.

SPEAKER_01 10:26

Yeah, that's never where faith stops. No, faith doesn't stop, faith responds, okay? It moves, it moves forward into confession, into repentance, and ultimately baptism. Not as listen, make sure you're on this, not as separate checkpoints, but as one unified response.

SPEAKER_00 10:50

You know, that phrase he uses, completing the catch. That's where people are going to have to kind of slow down a little bit and really think about what Jack is saying here.

SPEAKER_01 11:03

Because now you're asking, have I defined faith the way that scripture defines faith? Or is it just the way I've always heard it explained?

SPEAKER_00 11:17

Yeah, and Jonathan, that's not a small question.

SPEAKER_01 11:20

No, it's not. Because if faith is only mental, I know in the previous episode we talked about just mental ascent. If it's only mental, then anything beyond that will feel like a work.

SPEAKER_00 11:34

But if faith is the response, then obedience isn't earning. Obedience, it's trusting.

SPEAKER_01 11:42

And that is a huge distinction. Yes. And it sets up everything that follows in this chapter because now we're not debating whether or not baptism matters. Instead, folks, we're asking what role it actually plays in our response of faith.

SPEAKER_00 12:01

And more importantly, why something that's supposed to be as clear as it can be has left so many people uncertain. That's where this chapter is now heading.

SPEAKER_01 12:14

All right. Well,

One Unified Response Of Faith

SPEAKER_01 12:15

as we move now into our our second second segment here today, uh, right after we complete this catch, right? Uh we end the completing the catch idea. Jack Wilkie doesn't just leave it uh at the abstract.

SPEAKER_00 12:31

No.

SPEAKER_01 12:33

Uh he gets very specific very, very quickly, and he defines what the response of faith actually looks like. Uh, let's talk about here confession, repentance, baptism. Again, let me make this clear, not as separate ideas, but again, as one unified movement. Okay. And that's important because a lot of people, uh, a lot of the time will isolate uh one of those uh things, whether it be confession, repentance, uh whatever it may be, and isolate it above the other. And I've experienced that many times, Cliff, in Bible studies I've been a part of.

SPEAKER_00 13:15

Yeah, Jonathan, same here. Or if what's even worse, they'll stop at one of them.

SPEAKER_01 13:21

Yeah, right. But here, Jack is saying this is what faith does. It confesses Jesus as Lord, it turns away from sin, and it submits in baptism.

SPEAKER_00 13:37

And Jonathan, I think that phrase he uses, this is how one complete the catch, that ties everything together.

SPEAKER_01 13:47

Oh, it really, really does, Cliff, because now we're not talking about multiple systems. We're talking about, again, one response.

SPEAKER_00 13:56

And then he makes a move that I think is really appreciated. He

What Happens At Baptism

SPEAKER_00 14:01

basically says, let's not argue about baptism, let's just look at what the Bible says happens.

SPEAKER_01 14:07

Yeah, he calls it, and I I love the word that he used, he calls it a survey of what happens at baptism. And that's huge because instead of debating theories, he just starts laying scripture out very simply.

SPEAKER_00 14:23

And the first thing he focuses on is forgiveness.

SPEAKER_01 14:27

Yeah, Acts 2, 38. Repent and be baptized for the remission of sins.

SPEAKER_00 14:37

And Jonathan, that's not vague language there.

SPEAKER_01 14:40

No, it's not, it's direct language. And think about it. Baptism in that moment, uh, baptism is connected to the very moment that one's sins are forgiven.

SPEAKER_00 14:54

And then he stacks onto that, Jonathan. He says, salvation itself.

SPEAKER_01 15:00

Yeah, you you take us now to Mark 16 and verse 16. He who believes and is baptized will be saved.

SPEAKER_00 15:08

Again, belief and baptism is together, not competing with one another, not on separate tracks, but they're together. And then you add in the Holy Spirit.

SPEAKER_01 15:20

Yeah, Acts chapter 2, again, you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. So now uh let's look at this. We've got forgiveness, salvation, and the spirit all tied to this very same moment. And that's where I think people start to really feel the weight uh of what he's saying.

SPEAKER_00 15:45

And I think because if all of that is happening there, then baptism isn't just symbolic.

SPEAKER_01 15:53

Right. It's not just an outward sign of something that that's already happened, it's part of the moment itself.

SPEAKER_00 16:00

And Jonathan, I think that's where a lot of people have to kind of slow down again, and they really wrestle with scriptures.

SPEAKER_01 16:09

Because this isn't about what we've always heard, it's about what the text, the scripture, God's word, is actually saying.

SPEAKER_00 16:20

And he's not forcing it. He all he's doing, folks, is just reading it.

SPEAKER_01 16:27

That's right. And I think that's what stands out to me. Um, there's no mental gymnastics going on here, just connection after connection after connection. And Cliff, here's the thing: if you just let these passages speak for themselves, then what happens is you'll start to see a very consistent picture.

SPEAKER_00 16:52

That's when someone responds in faith, confessing, repenting, being baptized. That's the moment where sins are forgiven, where salvation is received, and where the Spirit is given. And Jonathan, that's a big deal.

SPEAKER_01 17:10

Oh, it is, and it sets the stage for what Jack's about to say next, because now the question becomes And if all of that is true, why doesn't it feel like everybody's assured after it?

SPEAKER_00 17:25

And that's where this chapter really starts to press in.

SPEAKER_01 17:30

So

Burial And Resurrection In Baptism

SPEAKER_01 17:31

after laying out what happens at baptism, as we look now into segment three, uh, buried with him what baptism means. Again, so after laying out what happens at baptism, Jack doesn't stop there, does he?

SPEAKER_00 17:47

No, no, he doesn't, Jonathan. As a matter of fact, he goes even deeper. Now he starts explaining what it actually means.

SPEAKER_01 17:55

Yeah, and this is where the imagery really starts to come into focus.

SPEAKER_00 18:01

Romans chapter six. Jonathan, that's something you and I are so very familiar with.

SPEAKER_01 18:06

Yeah. Um, buried with him in baptism, raised to walk in newness of life.

SPEAKER_00 18:15

And the same thing that you and I talked about when we were teaching that that's not symbolic language, it's descriptive language, Jonathan.

SPEAKER_01 18:23

Exactly. The old self, it dies. And then in baptism is the burial of that old life. And what comes up out of that water isn't the same person.

SPEAKER_00 18:36

No, it's a resurrection. And I think that's important because a burial only happens, Jonathan, after somebody dies after a death.

SPEAKER_01 18:45

Yeah, that that's so true. And it's very powerful. Um, and again, uh, the old self dies. Baptism is a burial of that old life. Uh this isn't just a moment. No, this is this is a this is a transformation.

SPEAKER_00 19:01

It sure is, and that's so very powerful, too, my friend.

SPEAKER_01 19:05

Well, uh, then he ties all that into Colossians chapter two, right? Uh buried with him in baptism, in which you're also raised with him through faith in, here's the key, Cliff, in the working of who? The working of God.

SPEAKER_00 19:22

That's the phrase right there. Through faith in the working of God. And Jonathan, that's huge, my friend.

SPEAKER_01 19:30

Because it answers the objection immediately.

SPEAKER_00 19:35

Yeah. This isn't us working, this is God working.

SPEAKER_01 19:40

Exactly. Faith, again, isn't us accomplishing something. Please hear us when we say that. Faith is not us accomplishing something, faith is simply trusting what God is doing in that moment.

SPEAKER_00 19:54

Yeah, us has nothing to do with it. And that keeps everything consistent with what he said at the beginning of the very chapter.

SPEAKER_01 20:01

Yeah, nothing but the blood of Jesus.

SPEAKER_00 20:05

Right. The power is still his.

SPEAKER_01 20:09

All right. And then Jack moves us to Acts chapter 22 and verse 16.

SPEAKER_00 20:15

Yeah, arise and be baptized and wash away your sins.

SPEAKER_01 20:20

Yeah, very direct language. That's as direct as it possibly gets, right?

SPEAKER_00 20:26

There's no symbolic language there. No. This represents no, it's none of that. It says clearly and directly, wash them away.

SPEAKER_01 20:36

And again, please understand that ties baptism directly to the removal of sin.

SPEAKER_00 20:45

And Jonathan then he brings in 1 Peter chapter 3, verse 21.

SPEAKER_01 20:49

Which I can tell you from a lot of Bible studies, both in person, uh on TikTok, and all these other places, that's probably one of the most misunderstood verses in this whole discussion, Cliff.

SPEAKER_00 21:02

Yeah, so clearly that verse says, baptism now saves you.

SPEAKER_01 21:08

And people stop right there.

SPEAKER_00 21:11

Yeah, they sure do, Jonathan. But Peter doesn't.

SPEAKER_01 21:15

No, sir, that's right. Because he clarifies not the removal of dirt from the body, but an appeal to God for what?

SPEAKER_00 21:25

A good conscience through the resurrection of Jesus Christ.

SPEAKER_01 21:30

Yeah, and that's the key. It's not about water physically doing something.

SPEAKER_00 21:35

No, it's about what happens between you and God.

SPEAKER_01 21:39

Exactly. It's and just to take it from the word, right? It's an appeal. It's a response of faith. And listen, it's grounded in the resurrection of Jesus Christ. So once again, you've got faith, you've got response, and God's power all working. Together.

SPEAKER_00 22:01

And when you step back and you look at all of these all of these passages together, they're all saying the same thing. You have death, you have burial, and you have resurrection.

SPEAKER_01 22:14

Washing away sins, salvation, a clear conscience before God.

SPEAKER_00 22:22

That's not scattered, that's consistent.

SPEAKER_01 22:25

Sure is. And I think that's the point that Jack is really making here. This isn't building a case from one verse. No, folks, this is a consistent uh picture that has been painted across scripture.

SPEAKER_00 22:42

And if that's true, Cliff, and we know it is, then baptism isn't something we minimize, it's something we understand correctly. And that brings us right to the tension this chapter is driving towards, Jonathan.

SPEAKER_01 22:56

Because again, listen, folks, if all this is happening, why are so many people still unsure? All right. That brings us now to segment four. Why

Why Assurance Keeps Slipping

SPEAKER_01 23:08

do we still doubt? Is this chapter now, Cliff, uh, really tries to answer your question? This is the point, I think, where as I read this, it really began to press in on me.

SPEAKER_00 23:24

Yeah, because at this point, everything has been laid out pretty clearly, Jonathan.

SPEAKER_01 23:31

Yeah, we we've seen it. What faith is very clearly, what happens at baptism, very clearly, what it means, very clearly.

SPEAKER_00 23:40

Yeah, and if all that is true, and again, as I said before, it is, then the question I've asked becomes unavoidable.

SPEAKER_01 23:49

Again, what is your question that you've asked? Here it is. Why are so many people still unsure? That's the tension that you feel here, because you've got people out there who have done everything that we've just talked about.

SPEAKER_00 24:05

Jonathan, that's right. They've believed, they've repented, they've confessed, and they were baptized.

SPEAKER_01 24:13

And yet, the fact is, they still question it.

SPEAKER_00 24:18

And not just on a rare occasion, unfortunately, Jonathan. This follows them kind of lurking in the shadows.

SPEAKER_01 24:25

Years later, decades even.

SPEAKER_00 24:29

Yeah, Jonathan. And for some people, it leads them to feel like they have to do it all over again.

SPEAKER_01 24:36

And for some, as we said earlier, not only just again, but again and again, trying to fix something, uh, they're not even sure in their mind what was broken in the first place. And Cliff, I I think that's where Jack really starts to expose. That's that's what he begins to expose here in this chapter. It's really important.

SPEAKER_00 25:01

Yeah, Jonathan, I feel so much. That's so right.

SPEAKER_01 25:05

The issue may not be what happened at baptism, it may be how we understand it, or even deeper how we understand faith itself.

SPEAKER_00 25:18

All right, folks, let me warn you that's where this gets personal.

SPEAKER_01 25:24

Yeah, let me let me buckle in here. Because now we're not asking, did God do what he said he would do?

SPEAKER_00 25:35

No, folks. We're asking, do I trust that he did it?

SPEAKER_01 25:41

And there's a huge difference.

SPEAKER_00 25:44

Yes, it is, because one puts the focus on God.

SPEAKER_01 25:48

And the other, well, it it keeps the focus on me. And when the focus stays on me, then what happens is I, man, and I've seen this, I start replaying everything in my mind. That moment, I start asking all these questions within myself in the stillness of the night, kind of replaying the scenes in my head.

SPEAKER_00 26:15

You start saying, Did I know enough?

SPEAKER_01 26:18

Or was I sincere enough? Or did I say the right thing? Did I feel what I was supposed to feel?

SPEAKER_00 26:28

And now assurance becomes tied to my memory, my understanding. It's tied back to my emotions.

SPEAKER_01 26:36

Which, frankly, are all unstable. Exactly. They change, and that's why people keep circling back. Because again, listen carefully, folks. If our foundation is my performance, trust me when I tell you, folks, it's never going to feel settled.

SPEAKER_00 27:00

No, but if the foundation is what God did, now, folks, that's when assurance has something solid to stand on. And Jonathan, as I've studied this, I think that's the shift he's trying to make.

SPEAKER_01 27:16

Not to get people, listen, not to get people out there to redo something, but to understand what already happened. And Cliff, that's strong.

SPEAKER_00 27:28

Oh, it is, Jonathan. It is very strong because now assurance isn't about recreating a moment, it's about trusting God's work in that moment. And that brings everything, I guess you could say, full circle.

SPEAKER_01 27:43

Yeah, let's let's think about it. The the blood of Jesus, the response of faith, the work of God in baptism, and now confidence in what He has done, not what I did.

SPEAKER_00 28:00

No, that's where assurance lives. And if we miss that, then folks, we'll keep chasing something that's already been given.

SPEAKER_01 28:11

All right. That was segment four. Now in segment five, this is where assurance begins.

Trust God’s Work For Confidence

SPEAKER_01 28:20

All right, let's yeah, take a sip of your coffee. I'm gonna take a sip of my coffee. Take a deep breath, everybody.

SPEAKER_00 28:27

It's getting deep, Jonathan.

SPEAKER_01 28:29

Well, uh, as this chapter really begins to come to closure, uh, everything really comes back, Cliff, to one central idea.

SPEAKER_00 28:40

Yeah. This isn't about redefining salvation, is it, Jonathan?

SPEAKER_01 28:45

No, trust us, it's not. It's just about understanding it correctly.

SPEAKER_00 28:50

Because nothing we've talked about so far changes what God has done.

SPEAKER_01 28:54

No, we're not reinventing the will here. No, we're not. The blood of Jesus still does the saving. Folks, the question has never been about the power, it's always been about our understanding.

SPEAKER_00 29:11

And that's where so many people get stuck.

SPEAKER_01 29:14

Not because God didn't do something.

SPEAKER_00 29:17

No, no, but because they're not sure that he did.

SPEAKER_01 29:22

Which, if if you think about it, it means the issue isn't with the moment, it's with the confidence in that moment. And again, that's strong.

SPEAKER_00 29:32

That's so strong. It sure is. Because if I keep going back to that question and questioning it over and over again, then I'm never going to move forward, Jonathan. I'm always going to be stuck trying to recreate something that's already happened.

SPEAKER_01 29:47

And that's exactly, folks, what this chapter is trying to prevent.

SPEAKER_00 29:52

Yeah, Jonathan. Jack is not, let me say it again. Jack is not pushing people to redo anything. He's calling them to trust what God has already done. And folks, that is a huge, huge difference.

SPEAKER_01 30:08

Oh, it really is because now assurance isn't built on how well I remember it, or even how strongly I felt it, or how perfectly I understood it in that very moment.

SPEAKER_00 30:27

No, it's built on what God said he would do, and this is important, trusting that he did it.

SPEAKER_01 30:36

And boy, let me tell you, that brings us back, uh, everything back to where this chapter started.

SPEAKER_00 30:42

Those beautiful words of a very famous hymn, nothing but the blood of Jesus.

SPEAKER_01 30:49

Not my performance, not my memory, not even my emotions, but his work. And when his work becomes the foundation, and folks, that's where assurance actually begins. Uh again, not by going back. No, but by moving forward, simply trusting that God said he would do and did what he said he would do, and he did it completely. And my friends, listen to me. That's where confidence comes from.

SPEAKER_00 31:26

And that's where this chapter leaves us.

SPEAKER_01 31:28

It really does. But but the truth, Cliff, as we wind this down, that's not where uh the conversation ends.

SPEAKER_00 31:38

Oh, no, no, yeah, because what we've talked about today, this isn't just information, Jonathan.

SPEAKER_01 31:44

No, this is something, uh, this is a reality. Uh, this is something that you and I have seen people wrestle with.

SPEAKER_00 31:53

Yeah, quietly, they wrestle with it personally. And Jonathan, sometimes they've done it for years and years.

SPEAKER_01 32:00

And you know, when we saw this chapter coming, our our hope was that by putting this out there the way that we're doing and walking through this chapter together the way we've done today, that it might help bring some clarity to some of those people.

SPEAKER_00 32:16

Yeah, not by changing what God has said.

SPEAKER_01 32:19

No, but by helping us just to trust it more fully.

SPEAKER_00 32:24

Amen, amen, a thousand amens, my brother. This has been such a great chapter. And folks, I hope you out there have enjoyed hearing it as much as I've enjoyed presenting it alongside of you, Jonathan.

SPEAKER_01 32:38

Yeah, and I just love the fact, Cliff, that we're dealing with an issue that I have heard so often in the Lord's church. But here's the key to it all.

Share The Message And Subscribe

SPEAKER_01 32:50

If this episode has been helpful to you out there, as you're watching or listening to this, if this has been helpful to you whatsoever, we we are begging, we are encouraging you, uh, don't hide that light under a bushel, right? Share it with somebody else.

SPEAKER_00 33:10

Jonathan, that is so right. There are a lot of people, folks, who are struggling with this very, very thing. And they may not even know how to put it into words. If you take the time to share this with someone else, really and truthfully, you might really be throwing them a lifeline.

SPEAKER_01 33:32

Oh, I I couldn't say it any better, Cliff. And let me just let me just encourage uh everyone out there uh to make sure, if you haven't done so already, to like, uh subscribe, and sign up for the notifications so uh you don't miss a single episode uh of the Scripture Matters podcast because uh we're just past the halfway point in this book. We don't want you to miss out. Imagine that you did not hear today's episode, and you were someone who was struggling. You were thinking back, maybe you're baptized 20 or 30 years ago, and that has been something you've been questioning in your mind for a number of years. This very episode may have helped to uh give you the confidence, not in your mind, not in your emotions, but again, as we've said, Cliff, in what God has done.

SPEAKER_00 34:26

And as we've always reminded you folks, this episode of Scripture Matters, a brand new one, drops every Friday afternoon at 3:30 p.m. It drops on YouTube, on Facebook, Apple Podcasts, and all the major podcast platforms.

SPEAKER_01 34:42

And most of all, folks, uh listen, we're just so grateful for every single person out there who continues to listen, who shares uh this on their social media channels, Discord, YouTube, Facebook, uh, TikTok. Listen, you are helping us to spread the word of this study to an audience that may have never heard of this before. So we're grateful for you more than you you could really ever know.

SPEAKER_00 35:10

Oh, it really does mean more to Jonathan and I than you really, really know. So on behalf of myself, Cliff Thompson.

SPEAKER_01 35:21

And me, Jonathan Sanford, until next time. Remember, folks. Scripture matters. Goodbye, everybody. Thanks for spending part of your day with us on the Scripture Matters Podcast. We'll be back with a new conversation every Friday at 3.30 p.m. on YouTube, Facebook, and all major podcast platforms. Until then, may the word guide you and your week and as always. Remember Scripture Matter.