Stop Waiting for a Platform—You’re Already Called (The Truth About Ministry & Identity)

So many believers disqualify themselves with one phrase: “I’m not a pastor.”
But what if that belief is actually keeping you from stepping into your God-given calling?

In this episode, we unpack what it really means to live as a disciple of Jesus—beyond titles, platforms, and traditional church roles. Through a powerful, real-life story, we explore how God calls ordinary people into meaningful ministry right where they are.

This conversation dives into:
What it actually means to be “called” by God
Why you don’t need a title to walk in spiritual authority
The difference between platform-driven ministry and faithful obedience
How to discern your unique calling and take your next step
Why the future of the Church may look more like everyday people living on mission

If you’ve ever felt unqualified, overlooked, or unsure of where you fit in the Body of Christ—this is for you.

You don’t need permission. You don’t need a platform. You just need to be faithful with what God has already placed in your hands.

The 2 or More Podcast is a conversation for lost balls and sleeping giants—followers of Jesus who are hungry for authenticity and to grow in their gifts and calling. Mike Bishop and Joel Henson explore what it looks like to plant sustainable microchurches, build spiritual family, and live out the kingdom of God in your whole life.

Instagram: 2ormore_podcast

Who is Everyday Mission? We are a people seeking transformation in our everyday lives and in the church. We are a people drawn into the harvest field by love. We are using our unique gifts, talents, and resources to influence the world with the Gospel of Jesus Christ and to help equip Everyday Missionaries.

Website: https://www.everydaymission.com/
Instagram & TikTok: @EverydayMissionFlorida

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:00

Mike, episode six.

SPEAKER_00 0:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 0:01

Halfway through the first season.

SPEAKER_00 0:03

I I don't have um Christmas decorations on my cup anymore.

SPEAKER_01 0:08

So it's a turn of turn of a different season. Yes. Yeah, exactly. No more Santa mugs. No more Santa Mugs. I love it. What is on your cup? Um I don't know.

SPEAKER_00 0:19

Oh, wait. Breckenridge, Colorado. So uh just thinking about skiing while we do this.

SPEAKER_01 0:28

You can ski. I'll be in the lodge. I'll be at the bar. Yeah. You'll be in the lodge. Be kicking back. So uh let's revisit our original vision just so that we keep sight of that as we kind of talk about this. And it's delicate because we're addressing problems within the church, but we want to do it without a critical spirit. Right. And also there are many people who find a lot of goodness and joy in the church, even as it is right now. And we don't want to discourage that. Like we don't want to tear down things that are bringing the kingdom for people. Right. Tell me a little bit about clarifying that further. And I think you've you've had a recent story.

SPEAKER_00 1:08

Yeah, I actually just had lunch today with a new friend. Um, and he is really interested in in men's ministry and has been doing it actively. Um, but he's he's kind of the quintessential um got saved later in life, got married or remarried, is now basically doing what he never had done, or or you know, has has a group of people that is is is actively helping disciple that he didn't have, you know, when he was younger. Um, but also he is kind of a product of being in what you would say is is just kind of a typical evangelical church setting. And now that he's really getting a fresh vision for ministry, like one of the first words out of his mouth, one of the first things he said was, Well, I'm not a pastor, you know, I'm just doing this out of obedience. Uh he said it. He said it, right? And so it was just kind of helping him walk through like the the reality that um God is calling him to do something unique that no one else can do. And it's one of those questions of am I gonna believe the narrative that I can't do that thing unless I have the official title of something like pastor or missionary or even leader, rather than just being faithful and responding to God's call and heart uh to to do the ministry that God's called you to do, and then figure out what how do I need to be equipped from there, right? And so in the course of that conversation, we were talking about the reality that um there is that that choice uh I can I can pursue this ministry alone, I can pursue it as a part of a local church, but if I'm gonna pursue it as a part of a local church, then I have to submit to that government that's there, right? I have to be willing to do what they're asking me to do. And in this case, the church that him and his wife are a part of did come to him and say, Hey, uh, we want you to help us start a men's ministry. And and, you know, can you get up on stage and talk about what men's ministry has meant to you? And he's really struggling with that because he said, he said, like 10 years ago, I would have all day long said, Yes. Get let me get me up on stage and I'll talk about it and I'll promote this, yeah, and I'll be involved and I'll do whatever you ask me to do, and I'll start the program and I'll you know be a faithful part of leading this ministry. But now he's kind of like, well, wait a second, um, God's given me this specific vision over here that I need to be faithful to and I need to follow and see where it leads and and call other people around me to have accountability, right? To have to be equipped to do to do this work well, right? And he's understanding that's not as simple as just starting a program as a part of his local church. It's really following like this pathway.

SPEAKER_01 4:42

Following the call of God, right?

SPEAKER_00 4:43

Yeah. It's it's it's being willing to step out in faith over a period of time and see where God wants to lead. And that's a little it's a little scary. It's why we started everyday mission, which will we'll get into more of that, of the understanding of well, we're kind of offering this third way to people of being able to do the things that God has called you to do, um, that maybe are a little bit unique and maybe don't fall under the umbrella of a typical local church uh ministry, but to do it well, to do it with accountability, to do it with friends and family and partners in ministry that are linking arms, that are learning together and growing together. And so I use him as an example to say, and I think I we we were talking about this before. He literally used the words, he was at a conference not too long ago, men's thing, and somebody said, you know, what's the the scripture that I'm a rhizosleeper? Yeah, a rhizosleeper. And I was I was like, he's a sleeping giant, or was he was a sleeping giant, now he's woken up, and now he's following the heart of God, and his question is is what do I do next? What do I do? Because there's no there's no roadmap for this, right? There's nobody out there telling me what to do next. I'm just trying to be faithful, and oh, by the way, I'm not a pastor. Yeah, right. And so I think that's really that story kind of exemplifies to me the heart behind this conversation, what we're trying to make more public and more, I would say, um more of a regular part of how the church functions. Right. Right that people are not just left to their own devices to figure this out on their own.

SPEAKER_01 6:56

Yeah, I mean what did you tell them about the pastor definition? Yeah, he said I'm not a pastor.

SPEAKER_00 7:04

What what what'd you say to that? Well, I said, um, you know, I happen to be ordained and I happened to go to seminary when I was young and all of those things. But I learned to be a shepherd by shepherding. Right? Um John Wimber, the founder of the vineyard, used to say, show me your or uh show me your puppies and I'll give you your papers. And I I love that saying because it's it's basically like show me that you've actually done something and reproduced, actually produced some real fruit, and then I'll give you your papers. Okay, you're a pastor. Wow, that's cool. And and it was it was you know it was a cute saying to kind of drive home a really important point, is that all of the and this is what I told him, all of the apest gifts from Ephesians 4, apostle, prophet, evangelist, shepherd, teacher, I've always liked thinking about those in terms of those are verbs, right? Those are verbs. Yeah, something like do. Yeah, when Paul said, you know, uh an apostle equips, well, that's an action. That's not a a title that just happens to, you know, people come around and they all of a sudden learn how to do apostolic work. No, you're actually apostling, right? And same with a shepherd, you know, you're gonna learn, you're gonna be equipped to be a shepherd when you shepherd. And the fact is, is that that man is already doing that work with a small group of guys every Thursday night and Saturday morning. He's already doing the work. And so put the title aside for a second, but also don't, you know, don't downplay what you're already doing. And that was what I really encouraged him about. Like, you don't have to go around and say, I'm not a pastor. Like, you're doing the work, and the fruit will when it's when it comes and when it when people see it, you're not gonna have to wear a badge on your shirt that says I'm a pastor or I'm an evangelist or I'm a teacher. They'll try and put one on you. They will, but the they'll they'll understand it because you're doing it. Right. And when when they see the fruit and they see you in your life actually doing those things in a variety without having to have the title, that's the real key. You know, the fact that that he is already shepherding men is really all that matters.

SPEAKER_01 9:47

What what do you think about? I've seen a lot of people have a really big call in their lives and they kind of start something like that, kind of grassroots, starts to gain some momentum because it's got the sauce on it, you know, like the Holy Spirit's there. Yeah, yeah. It's growing, people are being changed, and sure enough, usually a larger church kind of comes in to maybe just offer, even out of a good heart, it's not even manipulative, but just kind of tries to co-op it into something that they can um produce at their campus. And there's often a heavy, heavy resistance to that. Is is that ego that like I want to hang on to this, or is it something deeper, I suppose? Like what not just in his case, but kind of more broadly written.

SPEAKER_00 10:36

Well, I think in his case, and uh, and I think on a broader scale, um the question that you have to ask is what is the uniqueness of the call that that God has given me that no one else can do? And I can't remember if I've told this story in our first four episodes, and if I have, then I'm sorry, I'll tell it again. But I always love, and I told him this too. I I love to use the example of of a of a clown ministry. Have I told that story? I don't think so. I don't recall. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 11:13

Doesn't sound familiar.

SPEAKER_00 11:15

You're like, Mike, where are you going to do that? I'm like, where let me look at the notes. So imagine this. Imagine uh you're you just really love clowns. Okay. And like Who doesn't just love clowns? Well, I most people are terrified of that. So let's just be honest. But like you're not, and you, Joel Henson, you love clowns. And not just that you love clowns, but you really want them to experience the love of Jesus and to grow as disciples and clowns. Are we doing this? Like, I think we should well just hear me out. Okay, so so what that's gonna start with you you see the the guy that's waking up on Saturday morning at 6 o'clock to, you know, put his makeup on, put his big big red nose on, kind of get the the outfit on, and go to some eight-year-old's birthday party where they're gonna, you know, spill Kool-Aid on you and make fun of your stupid jokes and all that kind of stuff, and probably have the parents complain that you know, whatever. Like, but you're used to that because you're a clown. Okay. And you, Joel, just have a passion and a heart for the sacrifice of that that clown and what they have to go through. This is this this is stretching you, isn't it? I'm loving it though. Okay, so here's the thing. You, Joel, if you don't do that ministry to those clowns, the question is, who's gonna do it? Right? Are there people that are waking up in the morning thinking, man, these poor clowns, like they just don't have anybody to love on them and to share Jesus with them. But you do. And my point is, if that's God's heart for you, right? If that's where you burn inside for the kingdom, then you better follow that desire. Like you better call together a group of people who also have the same passion, or at least to help pray for you and to support you and to equip you. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 13:28

They can learn and understand it on a floor.

SPEAKER_00 13:31

Who are the clowns? Where can I find them? Do they have clown meeting? You know?

SPEAKER_01 13:37

Yeah, go to clown church. Go to the clown clubs. Yeah. Well, what what if there's what about to the people who don't have a very aesthetically unique calling on their lives? Right. You know, uh, you're talking about men's ministry. Yeah, exactly. Perfect. You've done a ton, but like it's still unique. So, like, what do you say to the people who it's like, well, I don't have that unique of a call. Someone else will actually go do this if I don't. Yeah. What then?

SPEAKER_00 14:05

Yeah, well, the truth is um most of us start in that place. So, like I told I told him, I started with the desire to plant churches that have a deep commitment to the scripture, to the power of the Holy Spirit, to discipleship, right, and and authentic community. Right. I had I had those things in my mind as a young 25-year-old or whatever I was. Whereas like I want to see that made real. Like that that's normative for the church. And and the churches that I would plant and reproduce, I wanted to see that made real, right? Um it wasn't like I was the only one who had that dream.

SPEAKER_01 14:57

Yeah, completely original thought.

SPEAKER_00 14:58

Yeah, there's nothing original about that, right? People have been asking this question for since the early church, you know, how can we be more authentically Jesus and our expression of church and how we're doing life together and discipleship. Um what I had to find out was God called me to a specific place. Amber and I were called to South Florida, to Jupiter area. Um we were called to basically start experimenting with various forms of being church together, uh, practices, all of the things that would go into pointing towards those goals, right? And see what works. Uh but doing it with specifically with people that are rooted here, you know, not not like um just getting a ragtag group of people together and and oh, it doesn't matter, you know, who these people are. No, like no, the names and faces mattered.

SPEAKER_01 16:10

Yeah. Well, that that would kind of be my hypothetical response to someone who would say, like, my calling isn't that unique, and I can justify not doing it because someone else might, is um the Lord has equipped you in such a unique way that no one else can replicate. That's right. And the fact is, is you only each of us can only give what we've got, and you have something unique. Right. And you rob the rest of the church specifically and the greater world around you, but the church especially when you deny the gift of the calling on your life to take that step.

SPEAKER_00 16:45

Right.

SPEAKER_01 16:46

And I think that's what we're seeing with the church right now, is there's just a ton of people attending and kind of denying the individual call. Right. I think that that is starting to wane more as we move more into like this micro-church model isn't quite so revolutionary in this day and age, especially post-COVID. Um, and people are a lot more fed up with just attending church, but I guess I'm kind of a speaking to the cultural Christianity that we've talked about, right? Um, when we adhere to cultural Christianity, we are robbing the rest of the church of the kingdom and the Holy Spirit that's in us. Yeah. And so like that's the imperative to me.

SPEAKER_00 17:25

It's like well, that that that gets into so there's a lot of obviously a lot of things that are being shaken within the church right now, with celebrities, with people that have platforms, that all of a sudden are being questioned for their authenticity. Um, there's a lot of proof and reality to their lack of authenticity.

SPEAKER_01 17:52

And so the Do you want to bring up what you're referring to? The story this week?

SPEAKER_00 17:56

Uh do you want to bypass? Um It I don't know that it matters because the story this week is gonna be another story next week. In fact, there was a story last week that now is a new story this week. And so and it's the same same story. Yeah. Um, so I have to ask for the person that says, Well, I'm happy in this environment, um, and I want to be like this person or that person or this role model or this person that has a platform. And maybe if you're a Christian leader already, a pastor or church planner or missionary, and you say, Well, I man, that that guy, he's really gifted. I want to be like him, I want to prophesy like him, or I want to lead like him, or I want to, you know, preach like she does, or something like that. Um, you know, you you legitimately have to ask the question, why? What what what about them are you trying to mimic or copy? What about them are you interested in replicating? Because the reality is, um to your point, what God's really looking for is for us to be us, yeah, for the church to be the church. Now, you may have an incredible gifting of teaching or evangelism or something like that. Great. But do it the way that God has created you to do it. Yeah. I think that's really what I'm getting after. Like, and and when I when we talk about like waking the sleeping giants and and um you know the finding the lost balls, it's it's it's an invitation, right, for those people to stop trying to copy someone else or feeling ashamed because you're not someone else, because you don't have the same platform that someone has, or doesn't have the same gifting that you feel like somebody else has. And I think this is pretty relevant to like men's ministry, for example.

SPEAKER_01 20:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 20:07

Well, I'm not six foot four and you know, built like a linebacker, and I didn't I didn't have any military experience haven't written a Navy SEAL. I wasn't a Navy SEAL, or I wasn't a profile, I'm not Tim Tebow. Yeah, and I'm a Gator fan. I'm I love Tim Tebow, but I'm not Tim Tebow. I can't stand up in front of a group of men and pretend that I led my team to the national championship. I never did that, right? But I can be authentically me. I can be Mike Bishop, engineer, church planner, pastor, right? Lovely, husband and father, yeah, uh, with experiences that run deep into the heart of like who I am as a disciple of Jesus and as a leader, that when I am authentically me and I'm talking about those things, that is when the heart of God connects most deeply with my story, and what comes out of my mouth is I believe the most effective. When I'm the most effective.

SPEAKER_01 21:24

Yeah, because that's what you've been given authority in, right? Right. Like that is what God has given you as your authority is to speak on the things you've been given. And and the thing about that is it's a lot less sexy and it's not as scalable. And for a lot of decades, and even still, I have people tell us about our microchurch, like, man, we just believe like God's gonna grow you guys, just like you know, and I'm like, I I don't eat I don't even know what to think about that that statement because our goal is deep, not wide. Yeah, and when you lean into the authority that God's given you, rather. And trying to have a greater authority than God's given you, it's not as scalable. It's not, it's not trying to blow up, it's not trying to be Tim Tebow. It's not trying to be a conference speaker per se. God gives people that authority, and when they operate in it, it's beautiful and that's a good thing. But for all of us to pretend like that's the goal is completely missing it. Yeah. It get it gives everyone in the body an inferiority complex. And like what you said with your buddy, who's like 10 years ago, I would have taken it. Yeah. But there's some maturity in recognizing like God's given me this sphere right here to steward this. No more, no less. Right. And and when we take that into the home, it gets so impactful and so powerful because we've relinquished our own kind of arrogant approach to like, oh, it needs to be big. And actually, okay, God, I'm gonna steward my sphere. And if my sphere starts to grow and we outgrow my home, great. But that's not our goal. Our goal is to build the kingdom and to help believers radically transform their faith so that they can live a more empowered and connected life to Jesus. That's not as sexy.

SPEAKER_00 23:11

Yeah. Amber likes to say uh the kingdom naturally multiplies.

SPEAKER_01 23:17

Yeah. Ever everything in God's kingdom is meant to grow. Right. Like wildlife, like uh it grows, like our families grow, our money is meant to grow. Yes. Everything.

SPEAKER_00 23:28

So the the the counter to that is if we are in a position where we feel like we have to mechanically produce fruit, right, then we're missing something. Right. And that's not to say that you don't do the work that is required to prepare for that fruit, you know, to really have its greatest impact. So, like, for example, if I was a teacher in today's day and age and never put anything online or YouTube or whatever, I just only ever talk to this little group of people, and God was really growing my capacity, you know, and Amber's actually had this experience. So she started, uh it's on our on Everyday Missions uh YouTube channel. She does this thing called you at uh new every morning, and it's just her. She gets up in the morning at five o'clock, spends some time in the secret place. She has no plan, there's no schedule. She literally just gets a download from heaven. She calls it like headlines from heaven, gets a download from heaven, and 7 o'clock puts YouTube Live on and just report reports back what she hears. And what's been happening, I mean, she's got over like 500 subscribers now, which is in the grand scheme of things, is a small number, but it's like, but that started from zero. Yeah. And that started from from just someone listening to Jesus and then reporting back and encouraging the body uh and people that had ears to hear, right? Right. Well, what is God saying from his kingdom and what is he, you know, telling us is like important to him. And so I think that's a great example of like she's using a very well-worn platform to just talk about things that are important to to God.

SPEAKER_01 25:38

And that uh and that yields its own growth. Right. You know, like that yields its own going forth of the kingdom.

SPEAKER_00 25:45

And I think she didn't have to put like ads out on Facebook, uh, you know, hey, join my headlines of heaven tomorrow morning at seven o'clock. No, no.

SPEAKER_01 25:53

That wasn't why she started. That wasn't why she's doing it. It was like, man, I'm gonna be able to monetize this soon. Like she started because she was just like, this is an easy platform. I'm gonna get on here with no one on, probably, I'm sure, more than once at 7 a.m. I'm sure that there was a lot of times, especially the beginning, where she was alone, yep, just streaming this video. And that's that's amazing. I mean, like, I think of our church has been 10 people for the last four years. Uh, it's different 10 people, and so like it's not growing, but our the impact that God is is facilitating through our living room is growing with every new person that comes in and every other person that goes out.

SPEAKER_00 26:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 26:35

And to to pretend like that isn't growth, or to to to bypass the reality that that is kingdom growth and that that is kingdom impact, uh, I I think we're missing the point if we aim for more than what we're being given. Because again, if the Lord wants to grow us, he'll grow us and we'll be out of the house and we'll be somewhere else. But uh I I guess my point is let's just rewire our idea of growth and our idea of deep, real impact. Love it.