Matcha: The Next Coffee… or the Next Bubble?

One of America's fastest-growing coffee chains removed the word "Coffee" from its name after matcha became too popular to ignore.

Something big is happening.

In this episode of Good Bad Business, Peter and Rod break down the explosive rise of matcha using the MOAT framework:

Margin. Operation. Advantage. TAM.

We uncover:

• Why matcha is becoming the fastest-growing drink category in hospitality
• The surprising US business that rebranded around matcha demand
• Why consumers are swapping coffee for a new kind of caffeine ritual
• The hidden economics behind a $9 green latte
• Whether a matcha business can realistically generate $1 million in revenue
• And why most operators will completely miss where the real moat is

This isn't an episode about tea.

It's an episode about consumer behaviour.

Because when people change habits...

Entire industries change with them.

The question is:

Is matcha the next coffee... or is this just another green bubble waiting to burst?

Listen now before everyone else catches on.

Because by the time McDonald's launches a trend...

The smart money is already looking at what comes next. 🥒🎙️

If you’re thinking about buying a business,
 listen first.

If there’s a business you want us to break down,
 send it in.

And if you got value from this, share it with someone before they sign something they shouldn’t.

Because we don’t want you to get into a pickle.

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:09

Welcome to another episode of Good Bad Business. This one I'm pretty excited about because it's one of those topics where a business has pivoted and really focused on the one core product. And for those of you that listen to this podcast a lot, we always want to focus on the core business, what really sort of understands the formality of business. And more importantly, what is the one key product where that business can really scale out? And so this one I'm excited about. And and we've also had a special guest, Rod. Welcome, Rod.

SPEAKER_01 0:47

Hi Peter, how are you?

SPEAKER_00 0:48

Thanks for jumping back on, mate. We're excited to have you on. And I wanted to just sort of really do a bit of a deep dive on a particular topic. And I saw it only a couple of weeks back, and it was pretty interesting because they dropped the name Coffee from their brand, and now they're focusing on the one key product. And so I thought you know it'd be a really good one to be able to do for the podcast and thought I'd bring you in and uh get your expertise on it.

SPEAKER_01 1:16

I think you're better. Glad to be here, my friend.

SPEAKER_00 1:18

So the topic of today's episode is matcha, the green gold rush. And obviously, we love the colour green here at a pickle for obvious reasons. And I wanted to just really understand what really makes this business tick and why did they drop the name coffee from their brand? So let's get into it. Sounds good. The day Matcha beat coffee. Now, he's the line that made this entire episode worth doing. Now, it was a a cafe owner in Australia recently revealed that matcha now outsells coffee. I find that a bit hard to believe because I'm a coffee addict.

SPEAKER_01 2:01

As a um matcha seems very uh very new and uh modern, doesn't it?

SPEAKER_00 2:06

Yeah, yeah, it does. Like, you know, we're all blokes now, so we we're still gonna stick to basics, right? That's right, that's right. You know what? Anything anything that's green, like uh is it expired? Like, I don't anyway, I don't get it, but let's break this down. So this isn't in Tokyo, it isn't in New York, it's in Australia, and it wasn't even close. The cafe went from selling around 6,000 matcha drinks a year to more than 20,000. That's big numbers. Wow, that's pretty interesting. And today, matcha accounts for over half of its drink sales. Then something else happened. McDonald's in Australia launched a national matcha range after trialing it locally and seeing huge customer demand. And now think about that. When Maccas follows a trend, the trend is already over, and it's all about to become quite enormous because you know, where are things going to head to? And that's really today's question. Is matcha the next coffee or is it just another food fad wearing a green Instagram filter? And we all want to be that Instagram fad, um, and everything needs to be Instagrammable. And I think you know, that's definitely a trend that I haven't seen for a while. Like, you know, where you've got a product where you know people are taking sort of snapshots of it because we all seem to be in this AI race at the moment, but it's still very important for businesses, as we know, with the types of businesses that we deal with. What is your product? And is it something that you can scale and is it something that you can promote to the masses?

SPEAKER_01 3:37

Very, very photogenic, the green matcher. Yeah, it is, aren't we? Yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 3:42

So, what's the global sign that everyone is actually missing? So let's zoom out a bit. The biggest signal isn't in Australia, it's actually back in Brooklyn in the US. And because one of the fastest growing change in America did something actually quite extraordinary. Originally it was called Blank Street, and it was called Blank Street Coffee, and then something happened. Matcha exploded and drinks like strawberry shortcake matcha. That sounds interesting, blueberry matcha, coconut cream matcha.

SPEAKER_01 4:19

Oh god, these sound like things you would you you would enjoy, Peter. With a straw, of course.

SPEAKER_00 4:24

Yeah, with a straw, overlooking the water, you know, with the bright sunshine in the background, making sure that my matcha is very instagrammable. But I think I think that's the point here because it started going viral because of what you rightly pointed out, is that particular product is very Instagrammable. And so everything really just started to change. And eventually, around half of the customers were ordering matcha instead of coffee. And let's let's think about that. So that's half. So, what did the company actually do? They hired world famous branding agency, which is Wolf Ollins, and they dropped the word coffee. So they spent hundreds of thousands of dollars just to drop the word coffee. I would have done it for five grand, right? Like, anyway. And I'm sure you've done it better as well, Peter. You know, being the pun master that we are here at a tickle. You know, you can imagine that. Look, I'm gonna have to charge you like $200,000 just to be able to go through your brand audit, and the only thing you do is drop the word coffee. What a great business that is. It's good business if you get it. It's great business. Where do I sign? So from the business in its entirely, Blank Street Coffee became simply Blank Street. New logo, new colour palette, and heavy matcha green branding. Of course, they're gonna follow the green trend. A pickle sort of led the way, of course. There's spies here, Rod, they're spies here, they're following the green product. Now, because the management realized something that was actually quite profound, and it wasn't it what they weren't in the coffee business anymore, they were in the culture business, and it's something that we talk about all the time. You know, what is the one key point, and can you explain it in the most profound way in respect to business? And we always use, especially here at Apickle, we always use the Steve Jobs analogy. When he would go out and promote the latest product and you know, think about the iPod when he went out to the audience and discussed the new product, all he said was a thousand songs in your pocket. It's not about overcomplicating what you actually do as a business. What is the one key point, and can you explain it in the most profound way? A thousand songs in your pocket. And this is why I thought this was going to be a really interesting topic. So, mate, over to you. What can you tell us?

SPEAKER_01 6:52

Well, I think that's a signal, Peter. I mean, you've made the beverage culture business. So no longer selling coffee or selling tea in this case or matcher, it's the business. And when a fast you know growth US chain changes identity around a matcher or around a product, you pay attention because that's where trends start. They start at the edges and then they become categories. And you know, we always say in our business, it's we all have a product where that which is relatively homogenous, but you create the service levels around it and the culture and the brand. And clearly this one here now, that's uh they've identified that's the as you say, it's the culture, not the product that's now being sold. And uh, yeah, 10,000 songs in your pocket, you know, it's still a little machine there. It's the it's the culture, it's the you know the whole feeling around it. And we took that Instagrammable, and I know we laugh about that to ourselves, but it sells products and and it's a a trendy new product, and it's I guess we'll go through a few of the features of the product, but it's a healthy alternative, it's trendy, it's ratogenia. Our behavior and our consumer buying behavior changes, and you know, for a large US business to change its name around that is quite astounding, Peter, isn't it?

SPEAKER_00 7:59

Yeah, because it's the one simple product, and you know, you and I talk about it all the time. If you're gonna scale a business, who are you and how can you explain that to the masses? I know from our perspective, we remove KVUs from director's home, so we negotiate the debts, we consolidate the chaos. You guys at Aventum Optium, it's asset protection. We're gonna provide you with an asset, we're gonna provide you with asset protection, we're gonna protect your asset, and we're gonna provide you with an exit strategy. But see, simplicity is extremely difficult, and that's taken us years to understand who we are as a business, not only to think about growth, but to be able to explain that in an effective manner to the audience where you can convert. And this has always been a very key trend with this podcast. It's really breaking down the business and understanding what is the core business. Because, as I've said a hundred times in this podcast, when a business loses, they add products. When a business wins, they remove everything that isn't the core fundamentals of the business and they focus on the one key point. And that's why this particular topic is great because they drop the coffee and they just focused on the matcher.

SPEAKER_01 9:14

And they provide the clarity. It's simple and easy to understand. So I guess if you strip it back, Peter, the question is why are people switching from coffee? Because it's obviously an inheritant uh, as we said before, we're we're old-time coffee drinkers and to change behaviour. So I'd probably say there's probably three reasons in my mind, Peter, why that would change. I mean, first and foremost, consumers want caffeine. That hasn't changed, whether it's tea, whether it's coffee, they want no matcha. They want it differently. Coffee it itself, in some ways, I'd say would feel aggressive in some respects. They'll slam it down the long black coffee, it's an aggressive sort of a drink, whereas matcha comes across uh, I think smoother and you know, in aggression Crisper, I guess it's uh in its simplicity, yeah, it's karma.

SPEAKER_00 9:54

Karma. Maybe we should need it, aren't we?

SPEAKER_01 9:56

There's a play on words, say $200,000. We come cheap, we'll do it for $199.

unknown 10:01

That's right.

SPEAKER_01 10:02

Look, I think I think we've talked about, but social media is such a powerful tool these days, Peter. And it photographs beautifully, its colour is instantly recognizable, and you know, putting a black coffee up against a green match where we know who wins hands down. So you know, they're up to tap into that social media. And I probably think the other thing we probably these days, you know, we're all about uh health and well-being, and so it sits perfectly between the wellness, the luxury, you know, the ritual, the indulgence sort of areas, Peter. So I think we like to feel good about what we're doing and drinking, and I think it sits perfectly in that space.

SPEAKER_00 10:36

Yeah, and and that's rare, isn't it? Because most drinks live in one category. Mature actually lives in four, and that's why it scales, and that's a really, really key point that you just brought up. And the points there is that it it actually is a part of the wellness, the luxury, the ritual, and also the indulgence. And I think that's why it's very much a scalable product. It comes back down to the culture. That's a really good point, there.

SPEAKER_01 11:00

Yeah, culture, not the product, which is rare and hard to achieve, but when you achieve it, it's extremely successful.

SPEAKER_00 11:07

Well, it's an experience, right? I mean, we live in an experience society, and you know, for restaurants and any types of businesses, you know, what is the experience that they're a part of? And then it's you know what we do on a daily basis, it's the experience.

SPEAKER_01 11:21

One 100%, Peter, 100%.

SPEAKER_00 11:24

So, what's the business model? There are three businesses hiding inside Macha, and so we've also got the experience-led cafe. So think Macha Ya, Koya Tea House, and there's another one which mistakes me at the moment, but I'll get back to that.

SPEAKER_01 11:41

But these businesses, the business is that that Tajiri one? Isn't that one around?

SPEAKER_00 11:48

Yeah, the Japan that the Japanese one. I think there's a there's a there's a couple, there's a couple there in and in and around. I think that it's Sydney C B D.

SPEAKER_01 11:56

I mean, I'm I I thought you done them quite well, Peter, but uh surprised to no surprise.

SPEAKER_00 12:02

Yeah, yeah, I'm not a I'm I'm not a matcha drinker. But then it doesn't mean we can't do the podcast on it. No, it's other it just goes to show how agnostic we are in this podcast. But the those types of businesses, it's the drinks, it's the dessert, it's the atmosphere, but they've really leaned into that Japanese culture as well. But it's not tea, it's about the experience.

SPEAKER_01 12:24

It is. I mean, and it's funny, Peter, because I did a little bit of research on matcher, and it's from a tree. They the the leaves from a shaded tree, and they don't they don't drip, but they actually actually consume the whole leaf and it's antioxidants, and it's quite an interesting sort of product. And in Japan does have its rituals and it lay all samurais, and you know, I think uh like a lot of Australians are uh traveling to Japan these days, it's one of our biggest destination points for holidays. It's really tapped into to an area.

SPEAKER_00 12:51

So I guess if you probably it was cheaper to get to Japan.

SPEAKER_01 12:54

Well, it is cheaper to get the dollar goes further in Japan than most countries these days, doesn't it? Which is unusual for a weak Australian dollar. So it's probably if you look at these models, I probably think uh the one's a second one might be the the hybrid sort of between the retail and the wholesale as well. So it doesn't just tap into the the retail side here. So it gets really interesting here. So like Adair doesn't just sell drinks, they sell the tin, the retail tins, they sell the equipment, the the gifting, it's uh the e-commerce channels that you can you know so you don't have to be in present there. You've got the the wholesale supplier. So essentially one customer, you're getting multiple revenue streams, and and that makes it much, much harder to copy. It's a whole experience, as you say, the culture, and you can cross-sell it not just from the T, but all the products go around it, and it's quite a trendy thing, so it's good for gifts, for gifting, for experience. So it's it really taps in, like on the corporate scale, you know, sending to one of our clients some matcha and it goes down well. So, you know, instead of instead of the old-fashioned alcohol, otherwise, it's it's a bit different as well.

SPEAKER_00 13:53

So, you know, as we all tap into it's a it's an experience, yeah, definitely. Yeah, there's different types of models though, and also that's an interesting point because with a lot of businesses that we deal with when we're sort of looking at a turnaround strategy, what is the product and can there be an actual vertical integration? So, and I find that quite interesting because if you're selling matches, then why can't you do wholesale to the matches? Why can't you sell retail tins and really sort of lean in to that Japanese experience?

SPEAKER_01 14:24

That's probably a good segue to probably the other how the probably the third model because when a product becomes, as you said before, it goes to mainstream chains, you know, and does it become non-trendy or is it about to grow or is it about to end? And I think like places like McCaffey, you know, who would have thought your cheeseburger and a matcha? It's quite amazing now that you know it's and obviously the stigma that used to be attached to coffee shops at uh McDonald's has changed. They've they've gone from you know drip coffee to nice coffees now, and matcha you know, goes in. So large cafe groups, uh hospitality venues, they're all now doing. I mean, I've been to you know, you instead of going over flat white or a long black, it's you know, it would like a matcha or a dirty chai, or there's you know, there's all these alternatives now. So I think these players don't need match to be their whole identity, but they add it to the menu to capture that demand. And if people go to these venues for the match experience, if you don't offer it now, you're not participating and potentially missing out. So I think the mainstream chains, I mean, I would very much say that matcha has now reached that point. And uh probably to answer that question or the or to hit that point you raised earlier, Peter, I do believe it's now growth, not the end. I mean, we're seeing it grow bigger and better, bigger and bigger.

SPEAKER_00 15:30

So yeah, it is uh definitely big. So tell us about the numbers, Rod. I know you did some research.

SPEAKER_01 15:35

I did. Well, it's very surprising research, Peter, because it's uh as a non-matcha drink, I didn't realise how much money was being spent on this. And uh so that's talk economics, I guess. So because this is where this is where like as an accountant, the uh the category gets very exciting, Peter.

SPEAKER_00 15:50

That's what that's why I'm giving you the numbers, right? Over to you because I know I'll stuff it up.

SPEAKER_01 15:53

Well, a typical matcha latte, so that's a matcha latte with a twist and a bit of soy on the side uses three grams of matcha powder. The drink material costs likely around about $155 to $2.60 a cup. The retail price is around the $7.50 to $8.50 mark. So there's a premium for matcha, um, which is quite incredible. We just think about that, Peter. $7.50 to $8.50. You've now moved the retail selling price for what was called a coffee store, but now it's just called the name. It's moved quite considerably. That creates extremely attractive, we'll call it cup level margins. That's a good term there, Peter. It's quite phenomenal, those numbers, aren't they?

SPEAKER_00 16:32

Yeah, 100%. That's the trap, but the cup of economics, I should say. And it's not the business economics, because you know, in Australia, as as we know, we've got wages, we've got rent, we've got the card fees, we've got you know delivery commissions, all the Uber fees, and then everything that most businesses are a part of now, and they've got to be able to factor in those margins. So, Rod, thanks for that, mate. We've gone through the margin, but the numbers are actually quite interesting. I didn't realise the margins were actually that high. So good numbers, mate. I'm glad the accountant worked that one out. So, Rod, what do you score it for margin and for margin? What do you give it out of 10, mate?

SPEAKER_01 17:12

Well, I mean, based on those numbers and very high, mate. So I guess up to nine category, mate. It's extremely, extremely, as you say, the culture of the product allows the price levels and the margin to be quite high. So I'd score it a nine better.

SPEAKER_00 17:24

Yeah, I'm probably not going to be quite that high. I'm probably going to give it an eight out of ten because the margins are definitely high with the actual product itself. But I'd be interested to know when we sort of break this down further, what money they're, I suppose, making out of the gifting and all of the other proprietary products that are outside of that.

SPEAKER_01 17:44

The cross sell, yeah. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 17:46

Yeah, the cross cells, yeah. Definitely it's a high margin for that one particular product. But what about everybody else? So that's maybe something we can consider moving forward. What about operation? Let's break down the operation. From my perspective, it's the customer notice, it's the colour, it's the texture, it's the temperature, it's the sweetness. And I I have had a matcher and it is far too sweet for me. I'm a long black drinker, so I'm not gonna, yeah, definitely I can't. Yeah, it's not, yeah. No, if I'm gonna drink something sweet, it's it's gonna be on the rocks.

SPEAKER_01 18:18

Um whiskey, not not whisking.

SPEAKER_00 18:22

Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's exactly right. Yeah, yeah. I definitely like my spirit, and it's not Christmas spirit, it's called a Jack Daniel. That's my type of spirit. But I think with this type of product, it's one poorly trained barista can damage the entire process, and that's where these types of businesses definitely need to be conscious of.

SPEAKER_01 18:40

Yeah, and and look, and supply matters as well, Peter. You've already been reading that Japan is already experiencing shortages. Brings you sort of in mind that the chocolate shortage we've had with recent times and in the margins, you know. Like we did a job for a chocolate manufacturer and they couldn't make money. So it is a risk uh when the supply issues are there. Prices are definitely rising for the cost of the product. Operationally, this will help us impact things. And it's a precision hospitality. We've already got the matcha snobs, you know, who things whisked the right way, and they can be brutal with their responses on this product. So we've already got matcha aficiendas or how we like to turn them. So I think from an operational point of view, it's a lot more of a challenge there than we think. I'd probably go around the six uh mark for an operational score, I think, Peter.

SPEAKER_00 19:22

Yeah, I think I'll have to agree with you there. It's a six out of ten for me as well, because it's difficult to set this type of process up. There's a lot that goes into it, even from a simplistic perspective, you know, where you're putting the lid on it, uh, where you need the machines to be able to seal it in. You know, I that seems simplistic, but those machines are expensive. The overall equipment for these types of businesses, it's a massive upfront cost. So you really want to make sure that you nail down the operation so you can pump these things out as fast as possible. So I definitely agree with you. Six out of ten from me as well. All right, let's get over to the advantage. Now, the moat isn't the matcher, it's actually like anyone can buy the powder and anyone can paint a wall green. We know that better than anybody, right? Um but the moat is actually the sourcing, the story, the training, the menu and innovation, and also the retail experience. We keep smashing the retail experience because you just can't open up a little corner or have a little hole in a wall and just call yourself a a match and drink. It needs to be the overall experience, what customers experience when they walk in the door. That's a big one.

SPEAKER_01 20:32

Absolutely. I mean, look at Blank Street, Peter. I mean, the product became so important that they changed the company's whole identity around it. I mean, like that's brand power. I mean, that's uh it's incredible. I mean, it is a real advantage. I mean, this can create uh you know huge opportunities. So I guess we'd probably sum up a score on that area, Peter. I think it's quite strong. I'll probably go slightly less than the the margin. I'd probably look at an eight out of ten for that. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 20:57

Yeah, okay, okay. I'm I'm gonna disagree with you, right? I'm gonna give this a very low score. I'm gonna give this a one. Wow, yeah, and and you know what? I I don't think there's any real advantage because like you look at the Starbucks of the worlds and all of the other coffee cafes that are out there, copying coffee it's relatively easy to do. But then you're also right, and I also do agree with you that if you get the experience right, then you have the advantage, but that experience anyone can copy, and so there's no yeah, so there's no real advantage by having a matcha business because you know the big franchises can also start to hone in on it. If Gloria Jeans, for example, just using that as an example. We've done a podcast on them a couple of weeks back. You know, if they start implementing matcha as well, then you've also got some significant competitors if they haven't already done so. So Yeah, I'm not a big fan of the advantage. I don't think there is any real advantages there.

SPEAKER_01 22:04

We've taken two different perspectives on that. That's the way it goes, isn't it? We have the two different people see two different things two different ways. So yeah, fair enough. Fair enough.

SPEAKER_00 22:13

So what about what about the term, Rod? Tell us about the term.

SPEAKER_01 22:16

Well, I mean the category, as you've just said, the category is now everywhere. Can go mainstream. But saying that, there are specialist tea houses, there's dessert bars, they're in shopping centres. We talked about McCafe. I mean, of course, never can forget McDonald's. There's the retail tea, there's the wholesale supply, so it's definitely a growing area. Yeah. As far as the term, does it make up, you know, there's the opportunity there for the ARM business? Look, and I I'm scared to give a number now because I'm sure you're gonna do the opposite to me, but I'd probably rate it. I'd probably rate it an eight, Peter. I think that as part of the overall opportunity there with the brand and company, I think it's quite high.

SPEAKER_00 22:50

Yeah, no, I also agree because it's a multi-billion dollar TAM. Restaurants are everywhere, McDonald's has obviously entered this particular category, and once they do that, the TAM conversation is over because they're going to try and capitalise as much as they can on that total addressable market because the category has gone mainstream. So, what was your score? It was eight.

SPEAKER_01 23:12

I was an eight. What were you thinking?

SPEAKER_00 23:14

Um look, you can't deny the TAM, Miss Hughes, so I'm also going to give that an eight out of ten as well. So let's tally it up.

SPEAKER_01 23:24

Alright, so for margin, nine for myself and seven for yourself, Peter.

SPEAKER_00 23:29

Uh eight for me.

SPEAKER_01 23:30

Oh, you eight were for margin, we're gonna eight for margin, yeah. I apologize. All right. For opportunity, we both went six.

SPEAKER_00 23:37

Mm-hmm. And for advantage, it was an eight for you and a one for the largest ever disparity, Peter. Yeah, that's right. First time we've had an argument, it's the first time we've ever you'll come around. I'll see your way eventually. We have eights each for the TAM. Now, for the total score, Rod, it seems like it's a big pass because telling up the numbers collectively, we scored at a 54 out of 80. So that's a pass. It's a winning business based on our mouth strategy. So that's really, really exciting. So let's go to the million dollar first year test. So if you wanted to break that down, can this business generate a million dollars within the first year? So over to you, Rod.

SPEAKER_01 24:22

Yeah, okay. Well, I guess if on a million dollar revenue is breaking it down on the day, it's 3,030 for my calculations per day, better. Yep. And at an average ticket price for order of $11.50, which we sort of thought with a coffee and maybe a little uh cross-sell we talked about, it roughly works out to be 264 transactions a day. Is it possible? The answer is yes, of course it is. Is it easy? Definitely not. That's it's a large number there. Yeah, sure. So it's not just a put it out there and make money product, it needs the the culture, the environment, the work. And obviously, we talked about the supply issues and the quality and the way it's sold and presented is very important. So there'll be definitely winners and losers in this category, Peter. No question.

SPEAKER_00 25:03

Because that's a flagship location, isn't it? And that's where the upfront cost is going to be huge. That overall retail experience is going to be quite extraordinary. And you know, with a lot of businesses that we speak to, they can certainly spend a lot of money on the retail experience. But if they haven't got the right foot traffic, then there's going to be some difficulties moving forward. So got to get the experience right, got to get the product right, got to get the location right. All of these things need to be intact to be able to convert. Absolutely, Peter. Absolutely. So definitely possible, but I would believe it would be hard unless all of those things are in line. So final verdict, Rod, what's the final verdict for you, mate?

SPEAKER_01 25:43

I think match is real. We can't sit back and say it's not. The demand is real and the growth is real. So I think the final verdict is it's match is here. That's real. Yeah, it's real.

SPEAKER_00 25:56

It's real. But you know, this isn't a match of business, it's very much a brand business, it's a sourcing business, it's a training business, it's a customer experience business. And if you own one, you certainly own the customer, it's the customer ritual, they're gonna come back and you're gonna have loyal raving fans if all of those things are aligned. And if you're simply selling a green drink, you're selling a trend, and those trends are certainly there, it's definitely trending. And we want to make sure that when we're looking at businesses, so if you do have a topic, please throw it in because we want to be able to break down the moat strategy, and we certainly don't want you to get into a pickle, and that's the whole purpose of this podcast. And so, for one final close before we wrap this up, if you're looking at a hospitality opportunities, don't ask, do people like matcha? Ask, can I build a moat around that particular product? And that's not always about money, you know. Rod, you and I know that better than anybody. It's really sort of building the experience, and it's that one key product. We're big believers in obviously breaking down the key product and really scaling down that key product because that's where the money is. And if there is a business that you like us to break down, send it in. Because, as mentioned, we don't want you to get into a pickle. And if you like this podcast, send it to a friend because it helps other people find us.

SPEAKER_01 27:30

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 27:33

Rod, that's it. We got through it.

SPEAKER_01 27:36

Beautiful, mate. Well, thank you, my friend. I appreciate that as always.