Bodybuilding Prep, Building Muscle, and Doing Hard Things with Daphni Barwick

In this episode of The Rooted Method, Kaycee Hines sits down with Rooted coach Daphni Barwick just days after they both competed in a bodybuilding show to unpack what prep taught them about discipline, body image, muscle building, and doing hard things with intention.

This conversation pulls back the curtain on bodybuilding without glamorizing the extremes. Kaycee and Daphni talk about why building a strong physique requires more than fat loss, why so many women struggle to trust a build phase, and why stage leanness is not the goal for everyday life.

They also discuss the mental side of prep, the confidence that comes from following through, and how choosing a hard physical goal can create growth that carries far beyond the gym.

If you have ever felt stuck, feared eating more, chased fat loss without getting the shape you wanted, or needed a reminder that strength is built through challenge, this conversation is for you.

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Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:15

Welcome back to the Rooted Method. I'm here with Daphne, one of our coaches here at Rooted. And this episode will be a little bit different because we are going to talk about something that we just put ourselves through uh voluntarily, which was prep for a bodybuilding show. And we just had that, what, a few days ago? Three days ago, which is kind of crazy. I know. Um, but it's truly one of the most rigorous, most demanding things that you can put yourself through physically, mentally. Uh, and we did it and we completed it. And we were we're gonna talk a little bit about some of that and why we wanna do hard things. Um, but first and foremost, I kind of want you to talk about just bodybuilding in general for people who don't really understand it, because a lot of our listeners and a lot of our clients um are not in this world at all. And so, like, I want to know, you know, what is bodybuilding um and the parts of it that you find beautiful and that interests you in the sport.

SPEAKER_00 1:08

So to me, I would explain bodybuilding more so it's more than just going in the gym and lifting weights. You are dialing in on your physique. You are literally building your body and shaping it and sculpting it. You are lifting for muscle growth, not just strength or for fat loss. You have muscle growth, growth goals. Um, so that is to me how I would explain what bodybuilding is. And why I love bodybuilding is just for that. I mean, I could go on for days about why I love bodybuilding.

SPEAKER_01 1:40

I love your passion for it. I do.

SPEAKER_00 1:42

But um, I think really just being able to go in the gym and progressive, progressively overloading. Um, I think knowing that every single rep you do, every lift, every time you step foot in the gym is with a goal and with a purpose. And um, you are literally building your body, sculpting it. You can look at your physique and say, Oh my gosh, I need more muscles or I want to grow my glutes for the ladies. Um, some guys too. So ink, okay, guys, want the glutes, want the peach. Um, but knowing that you can do that with your training program and build your body, that is that is for me what I love.

SPEAKER_01 2:21

Which really translates to lifestyle clients too, because that is what we're doing just on a lifestyle level and not necessarily as intensive as bodybuilding, maybe not as intensive from a muscle density perspective and not getting on stage. True. But that's still what we're taking clients through. But when you look at like truly the sport of bodybuilding, now it's okay, I'm doing this, and there's also an intention of showcasing that. Sure. And I think a lot of people look at that. They look at people on a stage or they look at people in the bikini or their shirt off or whatever. Right. Um, and they think it comes from a vanity perspective.

SPEAKER_00 2:56

Oh, yes.

SPEAKER_01 2:57

And how do you how do you feel about that thought or that assumption?

SPEAKER_00 3:00

I have thought long and hard about this. Okay, I will say, I will say for sure. I'm sure there's people out there that do this for vanity reasons. They like the attention, maybe um they're ego driven. I will speak for me and say this was personal. Um dang, I did not want to cry. I did not want to get emotional.

SPEAKER_01 3:24

You do it.

SPEAKER_00 3:25

No. Yes. This whole thing was personal for me.

SPEAKER_01 3:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 3:30

Passion, personal growth. Stepping on stage was more than it never was about look at me. It was about what could I do for myself? What could I show my daughters? Yeah. What could I prove to myself? Um, so yeah, I'm sure some people do it for vanity. Sure. But it wasn't that for me. It isn't that for me.

SPEAKER_01 3:52

What I think too, like meeting other competitors there, like I don't think I really met all that many people where I thought that that was the case. Like people really are just trying to be the absolute best that they can at their craft. And with bodybuilding, you can put that in this bucket and say, oh, it's about vanity. But really, it's like for most of these people, it's what they're passionate about and it's what they love. It's just like an athlete of a different sport being passionate and wanting to get to the top of that. But because it involves the body and showcasing the body, people I think just have a more negative connotation regarding it than they should.

SPEAKER_00 4:26

They sexualize it. If you're someone from the outside looking in, it is sexualized. It is, oh, you have your your butt crack on stage or your backside, your butt, you know, and it's not, I say glutes. Look at your glutes. Right.

SPEAKER_01 4:42

Where some people are looking at it and look sexualizing it, bodybuilders are looking and saying, look at that glute ham ty-in, look at that, you know, that muscle striation, or look at how well they developed that exact muscle group or shape for the class that they're in. I mean, it's such an art and it's such a science.

SPEAKER_00 4:59

Yeah. So like when you're looking at your physique, um you look and see what division, first off, you are you, you're, you most fit. And then you build and shape your physique to that division where you favor. Um, and what I was gonna say too, uh, was I was so surprised backstage of the other the competitors, the female competitors, they were moms. They were moms. Their kids were out in the audience watching them. Yeah. That was really cool to see. Like we weren't alone. We weren't theirs like moms, the only ones with a bunch of 22-year-olds.

SPEAKER_01 5:34

Yeah, don't.

SPEAKER_00 5:34

That was really cool. Yeah. But also being around other people who are driven with the passion that you just mentioned, they they track the meals, they track the lifts, they show up, they don't miss. And just like with any other sport, I think for some reason, I think bodybuilding is looked at in a negative light sometimes in that way from the outside, from the person outside looking in. Like we're just obsessed with ourselves, or we're obsessed with bringing our meals, or why can't you eat out here? And if I'm obsessed with my health and fitness, then I think that's a pretty good thing to be obsessed with. Totally agree. You know, and in whether you want to be a lifestyle bodybuilder or a competitive bodybuilder, they both require that same amount of discipline, passion, willpower. And that's just, you know, that's just is what it is.

SPEAKER_01 6:26

Yeah. So we did it for different reasons. You know, obviously you're you have a passion for this, and this is something that you have been doing and living this lifestyle for a really long time. Mine was more so about the challenge of it. You know me, I'm a psycho and I want to do just something hard and different every year. Part of that's probably ADHD, whatever, but um, a little bit different. But regardless, I think we learned a lot of the same things going through prep together, which was fun, by the way.

SPEAKER_02 6:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 6:52

Um, but I I want to know a little bit about like how did you how do you feel like you grew mentally through that 20-week prep? Like, what do you think helped you from a mental challenge perspective?

SPEAKER_00 7:03

Gosh, mentally is always the same, driven. Lock it in. Yeah. You do the hard things. You do things that there were some mornings where I'm like, gosh, I sat in my car before I got out and went into the gym because I was either just tired or I knew I was getting ready to face a heavy lift. And maybe I didn't have the fuel, the energy to fuel that lift. But the mindset that you get from that is confidence. It's disciplined, it's empowering, it's knowing that you are doing the things that it takes to reach those goals that most people don't do.

SPEAKER_01 7:39

No, this is something most people will never do in their entire life.

SPEAKER_00 7:42

So the mindset there was just sharpened even further.

SPEAKER_01 7:45

Totally agree. And I think it's cool to be able for us to translate that to clients because, you know, while most of my clients are not following a meal plan, they're not doing it this rigidly. You know, we we learned a lot about how to uh portray or teach that discipline to other people. Like, hey, I want you to do it on this level. This is how I did it on this level. Right. And if I can do it all the way up here and have this minimal bandwidth, I now have more tools in my toolbox as a coach to then teach you how to do it at 80%, whereas I was doing it at 100%.

SPEAKER_00 8:17

Right. 100%.

SPEAKER_01 8:18

And I think that that was huge for both of us too, from a coaching perspective, to be like, okay, wow, this is this is a lot, but it teaches us so much on how we can, how could we can help other people through it? Definitely. Was there ever a moment in prep for you where you were like, oh my gosh, what have I done? What am I doing? This is so hard.

SPEAKER_00 8:36

Oh yeah. Mostly that came initially with posing. I'm not, I don't have a background in, you know, gymnastics or dance or being flowy and flexible. That's just kind of like not what bodybuilders are. They're rough, tough, gritty. Um, so when it came to posing, that was an art that, and I'm still trying to, I will always try to dial that in, work on that.

SPEAKER_02 9:00

It's so hard.

SPEAKER_00 9:01

But being able to learn how to position and pose your physique that you have built and displaying that on stage, it is a true form of art. Like it's it's very difficult for me.

SPEAKER_01 9:15

It's so hard. I remember my first posing session, and I told you the next day I was like, I'm so sore. Yes, my body hurts. My body hurts. People don't realize because when you see those pictures, it looks like you're just standing there. Uh-huh. But when you are posing, it is so hard. My whole entire posterior chain was just like tight the next day. And each time I would practice consistently. But it's a tougher thing than people realize. And even though, yes, we were in heels, but like you look at the men and some of the women that are in the bodybuilding and physique divisions and not wearing shoes and their their pose, I mean, they are flexing for I mean, minutes on end. And it's just, it's, it's wildly hard.

SPEAKER_00 9:51

And every little detail matters. So, like when you do your quarter turn for the wellness girls, keep the glutes up, turn as you're moving, glutes up, heels, don't fall, don't melt. It's hard.

SPEAKER_01 10:04

It's hard. It's hard. I love how much you love it, truly. And I think that it is, again, really helpful for our lifestyle clients too, to be able to see, okay, my coach or my coaches or the owner of the company, whatever it may be, like they know how to get their physique to the, I mean, to the top place that you could ever possibly get it. Um, and while we're not taking everyone there because it's not healthy to stay that lean for so long, right? I think that it taught both of us a lot from a coaching perspective. So yeah, um, I want to ask you about specifically coaching women, whether they're lifestyle or they are in prep, um, what is the biggest pushback that you get from women when you want to help them to develop their physique?

SPEAKER_00 10:43

Being in a surplus.

SPEAKER_01 10:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 10:44

Bulking, growing.

SPEAKER_01 10:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 10:46

Growing the muscle they want. Because oftentimes it's like, you know, the common I want to lose fat. That's common. I want to lose fat. But then when I lose the fat, I don't look the way I I thought I would look.

SPEAKER_01 10:59

Yep.

SPEAKER_00 11:00

So then I think the term they use is skinny fat. I don't know. But that is the term. They don't have the shape. They don't have the muscle. So then they're still not happy, but they don't have the trust and the confidence to go through a surplus to really grow and do what it takes to grow that muscle that they want.

SPEAKER_01 11:18

Yeah. And that's the hardest thing is to get someone to the end of a fat loss phase. And they did great and they crushed it, but they still don't look how they want to look. Yeah. And so a big part of what we do is really educating women, women specifically. This obviously applies to our male clients too. For sure. But women are way more hesitant to go through a muscle building phase because the commonality is like, oh, I don't want to be bulky. I'm so terrified to put on bulk. And like that, which is why we don't even really call it a bulk with our clients. We call it a lean build phase or a build, because if you say bulk to most women, it's scary. But we want them to understand like if you want the shape, even if you don't want to look like a bodybuilder, that's not what we're trying to get you to do with it. Unless it's your goal, let's go. Right. Let's go. Let's go. But otherwise, like if if you even just want a more feminine shape, a lot of times that's coming down to muscle. So with you, when you take clients into a quote unquote surplus, tell me a little bit about what that looks like. Because are you slamming them full of tons of food and making them gain a bunch of fat on top of it?

SPEAKER_00 12:17

No. Right. First and foremost, let me say this because I was thinking about this this morning. Quite literally, unless you have some major medical health issues, no one is looking at you going, she's fat. No one's looking at you thinking about your weight, first off. Okay. Secondly, to answer a question, like as far as getting someone there, whether you are already starting from a lean place or maybe you've just finished a fat loss phase, it is not a free-for-all. Bulking, let's just call it for what it is. It's bulking. You have to eat in a surplus to gain muscle, to grow muscle, to fuel for those lifts. But it's not a free-for-all. It's not go slam burgers. It is a controlled surplus, controlled, monitored. The same way you would do a fat loss phase, you're gonna do a surplus phase. You're gonna monitor the feedback, the scale. But the difference is that yes, you you gain confidence through a fat loss phase. But the confidence you gain in a surplus, when you can see your muscle, you can see your body changing, and you go into that gym and you can lift the heavy weights. You and then you know after your training session, you're gonna go home and fuel for the growth. That's unbeatable. That's unbeatable.

SPEAKER_01 13:38

Yeah. And you have to really experience it. And I think go through the whole cycle of doing a build phase, doing a fat loss phase, seeing the results of it to really finally be in a space where you're like, oh, hell yeah, like this is awesome. It takes a lot of women that they have to just trust that entire process. Because there are some moments where, and I'm sure you felt this way the first time you ever built, and I did too, where you start building some muscle tissue and it's really empowering to be like, oh my gosh, I'm stronger, and all of these cool things. But then there's also this moment where, okay, you're not actively losing fat. We all have fat on our body. We have to, we should, right? So we've got, for simplestity's sake, we're gonna just talk about three things. We've got our skin, then we've got fat, and then we've got muscle. So if we grow that muscle, but we're not actively losing fat, obviously, our body just ever so slightly is a little bit bigger. Yeah. And the clothes are just a little bit tighter. And that's where most women are like, panic. Yeah, panic. Yeah. Things are feeling a little bit tighter. I'm going in the wrong direction. I must be putting on fat. And really, it's like, well, you know, we're looking at progress, we're put we're looking at progress photos, but we're making sure that it's majority muscle tissue. Right. And then when we go into that next fat loss phase, we get to expose that hard work that they put in. But man, is that not the hardest part to coach through? Because if you've never done it, never done it. Did you feel that way the first time that you built?

SPEAKER_00 14:58

Yeah, of course I had some moments where I was like, oh my gosh, I need to order a size large in these leggings. But those mute the those moments were like few and far in between because the the feeling of confidence and strength I felt outweighed that. Knowing that I was on a mission to build, you know, I didn't really care about that. I didn't care about seeing additional cellulite in my legs. I didn't care about feeling fuller. I didn't feel guilty for eating and feeling myself because I was so driven with a purpose, intention, a plan. And knowing that I'm still monitoring the scale, I'm still monitoring my food, I'm still tracking. Like I'm in control of this. And I'm still doing what the the 1% do. Like it still takes the same amount of discipline, control, willpower as as it would take in a fat loss phase. Yeah. You're you're in control of it.

SPEAKER_01 15:56

Totally. What are you looking? Because you have another show coming up in three weeks. Four weeks. Four weeks. Yeah. I am done. Um, but you have another show.

SPEAKER_02 16:04

She thinks.

SPEAKER_01 16:06

Well, yeah, I'm done. Um, but Daphne's trying to convince me to do figure next, and it's not gonna happen. We'll see. We'll see. Anyway, so what are you looking forward to most aside from growing? Cause I know you're gonna say, all I want to do is eat more, build more muscle. Dying. What are you looking forward to after this next show the most? And you can talk about growing too, but what else?

SPEAKER_00 16:26

So after this next show, um, I'm looking forward to going into recovery, um, reversing out of this deficit slowly, giving my body room to feel good, to eat more, um, getting my labs back, making sure everything's good there uh hormone-wise. And then we'll go right into growth.

SPEAKER_01 16:48

And then we'll grow. Yeah, I know you're pumped for that. What was your what's your biggest thing that you're gonna work on, or what was your judge's feedback, or what are you looking to do in this next offseason?

SPEAKER_00 16:58

So because I'm wellness division, which is predominantly lower body, so quads, glutes, hamstrings, um, I will probably put focus on that as far as training goes and muscle growth. And then, yeah, glutes, glutes, baby.

SPEAKER_01 17:14

Let's go. I love it. Um, now I want to talk about body image and sustainability piece of all of this, because I know that a lot of people get stage lean or get incredibly lean and then have the expectation that that's how they're gonna walk around on a day-to-day. Or there also might be clients or people that are interested in working with a coach and they see their stage photos and they think like, oh, that's my goal. Is that sustainable?

SPEAKER_00 17:45

First, that's not really easily attainable. You know, you have to go through that whole process. Um, and it is not sustainable at all. Um, it's not sustainable because you are not fueling your body properly. Bodybuilding, competitive bodybuilding to get on stage is an extreme sport. You have to, you have to take extreme measures to get there. You are stage lean and ready to step on that stage in a mat for for maybe, you know, 24 hours after that. You are not, and you shouldn't be. So that is not sustainable long term.

SPEAKER_01 18:24

And I think a lot of points, because we both have gotten, and this is super kind of people, we both have gotten a lot of compliments of like, right, oh my gosh, you look so good. Like we'll be able to do it.

SPEAKER_00 18:34

We need the washboard abs.

SPEAKER_01 18:35

Yes. Oh, stop. Um, but that's what people are, you know, they see that and they're like, that's what I want. Right. And I know you're the same way. I've been super transparent that, like, hey, while I appreciate that, this is not sustainable nor is it healthy for sure.

SPEAKER_00 18:48

Right.

SPEAKER_01 18:49

Um, I was joking with Paul the other day because I I'm not, I don't enjoy being this link. Same. Same time. There are things that are not comfortable. I am cold all the time.

SPEAKER_00 19:02

Can we talk about the armpits? Like when you're shaving in the shower, it is a hole.

SPEAKER_01 19:06

Yes, it's harder. There are things that are harder. So I just I think it's important for people to understand like this can't be the goal long term. Right. I mean, the things that happen, your thyroid downregulates, your sex hormones downregulate for some people. Their libido might be non-existent, their energy might be non-existent. There are side effects to being so lean that you do not want. And so I just want to really caution people too that are listening that like the goal is not stage lean. The goal is not to get to that point. Right. I'm thrilled. I can't wait. I want to put back on at least 10 to 15 pounds, right? They fill back out and feel a little bit more normal.

SPEAKER_00 19:44

Getting this lean is not uh, I don't want to say enjoyable because the pursuit is enjoyable, the process, but it is not sustainable and it is not like we were just talking about family meals, for example. Like you are not able to do those things normally because you are in the pursuit of goals. Right. It's not that's something else is just not sustainable. Sure. You have to eat, you have to join in the social activities, you have to do all these things that make life life and enjoyable. Being this lean is extreme measures.

SPEAKER_01 20:19

Yep.

SPEAKER_00 20:19

It is so temporary.

SPEAKER_01 20:21

So for people that are wanting just lifestyle lean, that can still look like visible muscle, for sure. Visible abs. And yes, a lot of it also depends on like your genetic predisposition of how genetically predisposed are you to look a certain way. Some people maintain a really low body fat and are fine. Majority of us need some body fat as women.

SPEAKER_00 20:42

And muscle. And muscle. Like you can look banging with some muscle on your body and be lean and not like, you know, crazy stage lean. Yeah. Take some muscle.

SPEAKER_01 20:53

Totally. But you also see a lot of women that lose their cycle through this process because your body fat gets so low that you then are not able to cycle regularly. And so I just want to make sure that people also understand the like the negatives of that, of being that lean.

SPEAKER_00 21:09

It's extreme.

SPEAKER_01 21:10

And that we don't want that long term. Now, you and I, I think are wild anomalies, as we are, because we really don't have the body image issue because we've worked through this for 10 plus years. Right. We have that under our belts, but a lot of competitors will tell you that they have wild body dysmorphia.

SPEAKER_00 21:28

For sure.

SPEAKER_01 21:29

Because they got that lean, they got the leanest that you can possibly get. And then, like, now what? I'm gonna constantly compare myself to that standard, right?

SPEAKER_00 21:38

I think that's very common.

SPEAKER_01 21:39

Do you see, do you see that a lot with people?

SPEAKER_00 21:41

Yeah, I think that's very common with bodybuilders, competitive bodybuilders, the constant game of comparing themselves. The post show blues is what they call that, where you are no longer stage lean. Um, but I think I think being aware of those things before you step into this and knowing where your mind is at and where you're your mindset is, is helpful, um, you know, to try not to do that. And then also keeping things so like for you and I, we knew, like we already knew going through this, we need to have something on the end game. What is our next goal? What is our next challenge? What can we focus on right after this to put us, keep us in this constant groove of working towards things? Yeah. So we're not just sitting around like, oh, what do I do now? Or I'm gonna eat this or that. No, we still have goals. We're still doing the things. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 22:31

Okay. So I want to come back to kind of the overall theme of the episode because it's not, this isn't just about bodybuilding. Like I want people to learn the, I don't know, the premise of what it was and why we did it, but really the the mental challenge behind it. So what would you say to someone who's like a lifestyle client that's not, you know, not bodybuilding, they're not stepping up up for a show or anything like that, but they're feeling a little bit stuck do you want them to find their hard things? What would you say to someone like that who's feeling like they're in a stuck spot?

SPEAKER_00 23:02

Find something hard. And I can help you find that something hard that makes you grow and challenges you I think is so important and you know this because that's what you do to find something that you don't think you can do or that you could never see yourself doing and go for it. Because why not? Like if you are not actively working towards goals, to me, I I always say this if you are not working towards your goals, you are wasting your time. Like what are you doing? Because when you do something that challenges you and forces you to grow, you become a totally different person. And that the throughout the whole process, through the journey, like you learn so much about yourself, you learn so much about the people who surround you it's just amazing. You have to find something whether it is I want to you know build muscle or build my body or I want to do run a marathon or I, you know, something learn something that drives you.

SPEAKER_01 24:03

Totally agree. I think because we have our hard things are extreme at this point because we have been again a reminder to people doing this for 10 plus years, this type of stuff. So you know sure do it competing in bodybuilding seems extreme or you know you know mine one of the next things I want to do is a 300 mile bike ride. Like that sounds extreme to people. Right. So it doesn't have to be this wild extreme that you choose as your heart.

SPEAKER_00 24:26

No.

SPEAKER_01 24:27

Like some of our clients' heart is literally I want to run a mile for the first time.

SPEAKER_00 24:30

Right. Or a pull up an unassisted pull up I want to do a big one.

SPEAKER_01 24:34

Yes. So it doesn't, I want to encourage people like anyone who listens to this, think about it. Like what is your hard thing that you're doing this year? What's next for you physically and mentally I think for us this one was both physically and mentally challenging. I would say probably more so mental than anything. Sure. But I think you need we all need both to actually you know to really move us forward and continue to challenge us.

SPEAKER_00 24:59

Yeah it just keeps you driven it keeps you focused keeps you motivated um yeah or else you just sit stagnant going through the motions day to day. You have to have something and and like you said like it doesn't have to be health and fitness related. Right. It could be learning to crochet. It could be doing something outside of your normal comfort zone. That's where you grow.

SPEAKER_01 25:22

Okay last thing I want to ask you is what is your what was your favorite thing about this whole process so far between prep and the show all of it.

SPEAKER_00 25:31

The whole thing the whole thing do you remember when we got to the venue for the show and I just I lost my mind. Yes I do remember because I was pretty me even you were pretty you and I was like oh my gosh did you see the lights did you see the stage did you see our suits did you see the people did you see the guys they're pumping up lost my mind the whole experience like if you are considering competing which I never had it not been for you I never would have ever thought that I would I thought I would just be a a lifestyle bodybuilder. But if you have the thought do it do it because it's amazing being around being in a room full of other people that do the same thing as you getting beautiful with the hair and the makeup and the jewelry the suits the tanning it was just amazing. I could not have asked for a better experience.

SPEAKER_01 26:33

And it makes me laugh so hard because I am like that and not that I didn't like it. I very much enjoyed it but your passion for it is different than mine and it's that's great, which is why you coach this and I don't so you've been coaching for several years. This was your first show even though you've been you know in the coaching world for a while. Yeah. So if people are interested in working with you, one, you take prep clients, obviously if they want to do a show if you've been considering doing a show, obviously they want to learn from you because your passion for it is contagious wildly. I cannot imagine if you were my coach at my show with me I mean you would be the world's best type girl. On top of it, here's all your stuff I mean yeah you would crush but also you coach people and you're a physique specialist too on how to do this in a lifestyle way as well.

SPEAKER_00 27:19

For sure.

SPEAKER_01 27:19

Do you have a preference between the type of client that you want to work with prep versus lifestyle?

SPEAKER_00 27:24

No, I think lifestyle they're they're both equally different you know um lifestyle is pretty cool because you see the lifestyle changes um but yeah no they're both equally rewarding.

SPEAKER_01 27:38

Yeah I knew you I figured that would be your answer because you're so great with both. Okay. Well daf thanks for doing this with me today. It was so fun. If you're listening and you want to do a consult with Rooted you can go to therootedcoaches.com. You can it's you can hit apply and we will do a free 30 minute call with you to talk about if this is something for you, whether you're a lifestyle client, prep client, whatever it may be. And if you want to follow us on Instagram, we have uh at the Rooted coaches which is our whole team where we post I have uh Casey Hines with an underscore these will be linked for you and then your Instagram handle is Daphne Barwick I think just first name last name. Yep D A P H H N I A R W I C K. Yep got you thanks for listening