Train. Eat. Think. Episode 7 "Best" exercises for Upper Body

Join Ben and Francis as this week we delve into effective training strategies for upper body including -  chest, shoulders, back, and arms, sharing expert insights, exercise tips, and common pitfalls to avoid. 

Perfect for fitness enthusiasts of any level, looking to "optimize" and stay safe in  their workout routines.

For online 121 coaching enquiries/information

Please contact Francis on X/Instagram @coachfhm or email fmeliacoaching@gmail.com 

Contact Ben on X/Instagram @benjaminyeezus or email benyeezus@gmail.com  

Thanks for listening. See you next week :D 

Transcript

Introduction to Upper Body Exercises

SPEAKER_01 0:00

Trainee Tink episode seven. What are the best exercises? A topic so good. We have to come back for part two. But yeah, looking forward to getting stuck into it, mate. So last week was was it lower body? We got through all of the quads, hams, glutes, and uh we even thrown calves in there for good measure. But uh now we're gonna go through uh upper body, so yeah, lots to touch on with this one, isn't he?

SPEAKER_00 0:24

Yeah, lots to continue on with. Um I mean even last week we've got a wee a wee timer here that goes, and I looked at it the first time and it was 47 minutes. That decision just to you know extend it on a bit. And I must admit, I was absolutely buzzing when it came off that, and as you always say, we probably could have gone for for a while, but we're looking to keep the episodes to around about an hour. Without further ado, we should probably get on and start talking about everybody's favourite, the old chest.

SPEAKER_01 0:54

What's the best uh what's the best chest exercise? Yeah. So yeah, I think there's many ways to look at this one,

The Great Bench Press Debate

SPEAKER_01 1:00

mate. I think the uh something I seen last week on the timeline was people were talking about the the inefficiency of bench press, and people were saying bench press is you know it's a terrible movement, which I don't necessarily agree with, but I think should we just should we just kick off with chest and what's your thoughts on bench press, barbell bench press?

SPEAKER_00 1:18

From a personal perspective, it never done anything for me. And I tried so many different things. I tried to stick with it for a good couple of years, you know, suicide grip, don't push the bar, row it, you know, bend the bar in two type stuff, and all I really ever got from it, to be honest, was just sore shoulders. It's one of those ones for me that I just didn't get on with it, and my chest only started to really grow when I focused on real intention, so like lighter weight, not missing a rep and stuff like that. Um, one of the ones for me I think would be the lowest incline and something like a Smith machine, that that type of elk is where I'm gonna hang my hat on this one, Francis.

SPEAKER_01 1:59

Yeah, I was gonna say for me, I I would go with some sort of Smith press, if I was gonna say one of my favourite chest exercises, but just to go back to the bench press, like it worked for me. I'd done it for well over ten years, it was a good movement for me. I think I was helped out because I've got quite long arms, so I get a lot of a lot of stretch on the pecs in that bottom position because my my elbows have to come all the way back. And whereas some of me with short arms, they can really turn a bench press into a lot of shoulder and tricep, but I got I did get a lot of pecs out of it. So I think I I think it's important again. It's a great example of you didn't really get a lot out of bench press, but I did. It builds a the lion's share of probably my chest master I've got right now. And I do think it's a it's it can be a good movement and in the right scenario, the right situation. And again, it's it all comes down to how you execute it and how you use it. If you're coming in trying to YOLO bench at one ret max every week, I'm not surprised your chest has not grown. But if you're if you are doing that movement and it fits you, and you know you've got decent control, nice little pause in the chest, you know, all that good jazz that we talk about, controlling the tempo and the execution, the bench press can be a good movement. But if I was gonna hang my hat on uh my favourite chest exercise, it would be some sort of low-incline Smith. I even like flat smith as well. Smith press, just this, just this the general stability that you get from the Smith. You can just focus on uh on output through the pecs. You know, once you you know you know that sweet spot where a Smith, you know, you get yourself set up, I just write up and down, straight line, right down the chest, boom, right behind. It's just it's when you get that sweet spot, uh it it's uh it's absolute money. So I think we're in agreement, mate. Good old Smith.

SPEAKER_00 3:36

Definitely, and I always remember as well the gym that I started training in around about you know 2006 time. That that part in my training, I played a lot more five of sides football than I did. I was kind of just dabbling with training. I didn't really start training seriously until about 2013. So there wasn't really even back then, it wasn't a kind of machine type gym, but I do remember the difference the first time I stepped onto a machine, especially one that converged, and even on the first rep, literally like sat on it, went, and I was like, So that's what it feels like to hit your chest. So that that for me was um was a game changer, um, and just felt like all that time kind of wasted. But as you say, it's a great it's a great example. Different things work for different people. Yeah, there's no one thing that you need to do again. As we've touched on, there'll be people out there that have got different um machines in their gym. They they might only have bench press, other people might have no bench press, they've only got machines. So I think it's uh a good um a good example. And um, I've just frantically wrote down there as well 1RM because that's a really good topic we can get into in future podcasts.

SPEAKER_01 4:46

Especially, yeah, especially with bench press mates. People love the the old one max attempts, don't they? I think um it's important with the machines for chest presses. I think it's important to touch on this point as well. With the hammer stank chest presses, they're they're very popular across the states. Maybe not as much in the UK, but they're still there. And the hammer stink chest presses now they're good movements, but what you need to be mindful of it's the the resistance profile of them machines, they were sort of built back to front so they get harder at the top, where the chest it really gets you really want to overload it in the bottom position, so it gets harder towards the top. So a lot of those hammer strength pieces, so they don't really match the profile of the chest. So what you can do with them is sort of maybe stay more in in the bottom position and

Exploring Chest Exercises

SPEAKER_01 5:29

the length in, and you don't fully lock out. That it that's only very with the hammer strength style ones, it's just the way they were built. But now, if you have something like a most gyms don't have it, like a prime chest press ones where you can adjust the profile. And there's also another brand called um gym lekco. I think I think you've got as the a couple of those pieces in your gym, the gym leko. That that's a great one as well. I think you you do need to understand your machines and what you're working with because some of them do have different profiles, and when you're trying to try to train the chest, it's just something to be mindful of and when you're pairing your chest press machines.

SPEAKER_00 6:00

Yeah, the the the one in what I call my home gym, extreme gym, is um is they've got the gym lico horizontal press, yeah. Um and it's fantastic, yeah, nice bit of convergence on it as well. Another one they do have is very similar to another machine that I've used that was it was a cutler machine. This one was uh was a vertical press out, but again, it's got the convergent element of it and really good profile on both of them to be honest, nice good stretch on it. One of the things as well I'm really uh working on is I've got a problem where my bicep attaches here into my shoulder. So, what I've had to do is shorten my range of movement actually, so I can't do too far in the stretch nor push out too much. So I've been watching a lot of Jay Cutler stuff recently, and he moves a lot most of his stuff in that sort of plane, and again it just shows you that you can work around things and still get your chest to grow as long as you're targeting it, because I think as well, there's a lot of you know, thinking out there that every single thing that you do must be absolutely spot on. There's there's things as you progress and and you get to understand and know your own body that you can find ways to make things work because otherwise, you know, if I like that stretch happen too much or I push out too much, I'm out the gym for a few days.

SPEAKER_01 7:11

It's funny you should mention uh Jay Cutler as well. Like there's videos of him bench pressing four plates for 12 reps, and people want to say that Jay Cutler just trained for a pump. Jesus Christ. Four plates for 12 on an inclined bench. That is that's seriously impressive. Now that that's why he was that big as well, because he built up to doing that over time, so you know, no fanny around with the uh with the pink dumbbells there for good old Jay Cutler was he? Do you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_00 7:34

And he and they always said, I've I've watched a good a good bit of his stuff, they always said as well that wasn't him, you know, at the sort of peak of his power, he probably had five plates, maybe even five and a half in there. But again, this is the point that we're touching on when you know your own body and and you've got good control there and you're you're pushing to a decent limit, you can make your body grow by having you know really good forum and control on it. Yes, obviously he's got a slight genetic element because he's he's the elite of the elite. You know, that there's a lot of things that they would do that us mere mortals just wouldn't get away with. But I don't think it means that again, sort of black and non-black and white thinking is there's always a grey area. You know, we can look to the pros and and take some of their bits, but we we need to be careful because they'll get a lot of things wrong that work out right for them because they've got the they've got the genetic element to it and just very clever people, they understand their bodies, they know how it works. And I'm I'm always very respectful of that at the end of the day that they they know what they're doing, that's why they're pros at this. 100%.

SPEAKER_01 8:36

And you know what? That that's a that that's a great segue. And so I was watching Ronnie Coleman training like videos the other day, and talking of chest exercises, he was a big fan of a dumbbell bench, and there's a video of him in the in the rusty gym in Texas, and he's got 200 pound dumbbells, and he just throws them up and he just ragdolls them. But you know, watching him train, it's like it's like poetry and motion because he's so skilled at those movements, he knew what worked for him. He didn't give a shit what anyone thought. So you can say dumbbells are unstable and all this, he's cracked the 200 pound dumbbells, but it was like a piston in a straight line. You could just see from from ref one mate, his chest was just like boom. How could you how could you turn around to him and go, that's not optimal, mate? Do you know what I mean? There's gonna be there's certain exercises that if you become skilled with them and they work for you. So that's just again it as a chest exercise, dumbbell bench, that's another popular one, you know, it's pretty uh easy to access for a lot of people, and again, it's it's another good exercise if you get on well with it. I I know you've mentioned it in the past you you never really was much of a fan of it, but it can work if you get on well with it.

SPEAKER_00 9:37

I think as as well when when we mentioned in one of our prior podcasts, it's about skill acquisition as well, because if you've got the skill that you can do a dumbbell bench and again get good connection to the muscle, good control. Everybody argues about the stabiliser muscles, but you know, I I think that there's some um some uh some warranty in that in terms of you know it's good to be in control of something that doesn't always fully stabilize you. Again, like we're saying, it's just skill set. If you've got different skills, it means that if you ever need to go somewhere else and train and they don't have the prime profile that you mentioned earlier, Francis, then you've got the ability then to still go and do a workout that's going to help you. You never really know what's around the corner. You maybe need to shift gyms or something like that. And if you've got those skills that you can turn your head to something else and make that work for you, then again it's all about that skill acquisition and knowing that you can take yourself around the gym and create a good workout regardless of what it is.

SPEAKER_01 10:36

I think the stability issue, anyway, with dumbbells, it's I think it really becomes worse like when you start getting like £120 dumbbells plus £130, so like 60 kilo plus. Like, so most of us they generally don't really probably need to worry about that because you can you can have exercise ordering as well where you can put movements before you do a dumbbell press to make sure that you don't have to use the 150s or you know all that sorts of stuff. So you can be smart with your exercises if stability is a limiting factor, or make it harder, put it later in the warehouse, maybe add in a pause, like controlling the tempo, make it hard instead of having to use the 140s. Well, okay, I have to drop down to the the 80s. Do you know what I mean? There's ways to uh there's absolutely ways to get around it. So we've got chest covered. Should we go into uh we'll go into again just another sort of press and muscle? So what would you roll with for shoulders your best exercise? Are we gonna class it into a press and then isolation work? Because I think there's ways to look at it, isn't he? With the shoulder having three heads, what would you go with?

SPEAKER_00 11:32

Yeah, I'd probably stick it in there to be honest. Um I'm gonna go on the Smith Smith again, you know, good old-fashioned Smith shoulder press setting it up. So you've got your we mentioned 15 degree incline, so you're gonna bring the incline up um probably closer to you know something like 60 degrees. And you you could argue 45, you start to get to the everybody loves an argument. The argument between is it upper chest and is it is it front belts, what's coming in, you know, and again that can be something that that you might feel um and something for you to feel out whether you really feel your shoulders engage at the 45 or the 60 degree angle, um, and and sort of go from there, uh, even if you want to do it straight up and down. I saw a video where they argued whether it was a legit shoulder press. Again, people want to argue about a lot of things, but yeah, Smith um Smith shoulder press definitely up there for me.

SPEAKER_01 12:26

Yeah, I think we're on the same page again, mate. I go with a very, very high inclined Smith. Have you ever tried behind the neck Smith press? I used to try, I've tried it years ago, but I I come away from it. Not that I never got hurt doing it. I I just just come away from it. But I have seen I've seen a lot more of it coming out of it of late, and it's got me thinking about who I do like I do like the look of that.

SPEAKER_00 12:50

Have you ever tried it? I um I'm gonna admit here, I'm gonna be totally honest and transparent. Um I fell for the myth. So I I used to I I used to do this exercise, not very heavy, I might admit, and and with

Shoulder Press Techniques

SPEAKER_00 13:03

good control, probably not going below parallel in terms of my my my uh elbows coming down on the back, you know. You've kind of got a little bit of a lean forward. I fell for the you know that's gonna mess your shoulders up. So I I dropped that out many years ago, but I understand what you're saying, and I've seen the coming back basically. So again, it's one of those ones try out for yourself, see how you go, see how you feel. You probably want to start very light on the load, um, maybe be nice and warm. I maybe wouldn't do it as my first exercise. I'd want to be nice and warm around the kind of shoulder shoulder girdle um and see how I go with it and see if it works for for you as an individual, but maybe one to to bring back into the armoury now that a lot of the myths have been debunked against it.

SPEAKER_01 13:48

Definitely that that that's what I've been thinking with it. And again, you can work in moderate rep ranges with it and exercise ordering, as we said, there maybe don't do it first, but it's second or third in it in a in a pressing session, you know, working that sort of 10 to 15 zone, keep it lighter, keep it controlled, but still push the failure with you know lighter loads and it'll smoke your shoulders. You can see uh how how it would definitely work. We've got our we got our press, we'll go for a good old uh high incline Smith. And then obviously we've got the medial delta and rear delt. What would you say for your medial delt? I'd probably say a good old f I like I like a good old fashioned dumbbell lateral, mate. I'd really do.

SPEAKER_00 14:27

Guilty. I think they get they get beat up a lot. Um just when you're talking around rep ranges, I've noticed myself getting a lot of change, and I've had weak shoulders, um, not weak shoulders, but not not the development that I wanted on them. So I've really had to push them to make them grow, my chest and my shoulders. And what I would say is a lot of that I think has come down to being in that 12-15 but with control, and even one of the points you mentioned earlier, Francis, a pause at the top. So when you're getting to the top of the the range, you're just kind of just sitting there. You don't there's need to be uh an extended pause or anything, but just a nice wee bit at the top. There you go, it's engaged and control and the way down. Maybe don't need to drop all the way down if the tension drops off and come back in. So I'm definitely a big fan of that. Um standing, as I say, gets a lot of negativity. I think we see them getting butchered. I don't I think if you don't butcher them, that they're absolutely fine. And I also like um I also do a little bit of cuff work for shoulders and the kind of bog standard, you know, seated machine where you kind of face the front, you've got the two pads on the side. So I use a combination of all three of them to be totally honest.

SPEAKER_01 15:38

Yeah, I'm the same, mate. I use all of them. I use the machine lateral, dumbbell, lateral, um cable cuff, just different, different variations on different days, which you know I mean, I'm sure you do the same thing. But I think it's very important with you've got to get your rep range right with Deltware. I just for me, it makes no sense to be doing a set of six on a dumbbell lateral raise. That's when you get into territory where what's moving the weight, it's just gonna be a lot of traps, a lot of forearm. So it's sort of staying in that. I I can't remember the last time I'd done a later a lateral race below maybe 12. It's always like 12 to 20, and you get into those last couple of your shoulders are on fire and you're pushing with everything. I think that the rep range for your lateral raises, they they tend to work well in the higher rep range, definitely.

SPEAKER_00 16:20

Yeah, definitely get the momentum out. You know, that's the most important thing. If you need to check your ego at the door, that's unfortunate. But what you will get is you will get good growth the more that you control one of the things as I I continue on my own lifting journey. I try not to miss a rep. So I've got that control, that focus, the tempo, no momentum. And I'm I'm a big fan of that. And the other thing as well, especially for someone that's maybe just starting out their journey, you really want to be protective, and this is this is just my take on it. Maybe even over protective of your shoulders. And the reason for that being is you know, you want a good long lifting career. You take your shoulders out of the equation and you beat them up. I mean, forbid that you get a rotator cuff tear because you do something silly, you know. As you say there, Francis, lifting in the four, that's going to be heavy, it's gonna be something that's gonna pop out before. And it's just not worth it. For me, we've spoken about risk reward before, and that's one of the biggest risk rewards for me. I'd like people to to continue and train on for many, many years and know that you haven't beat up your joints, because I think shoulders especially are one of the ones that when I speak to gents who have been lifting for a long, long time, they'll say it and wish that they hadn't beat their shoulders up by doing really heavy presses, not following like the correct plane. So instead, instead of they're they've been doing them, you know, horizontally, instead of coming into the the the sagittal plane, for example, um a lot of protection there, of course, or on your joints, making sure that the the actual target muscle you've got is working and you're not getting tendons, ligaments, um your abs involved to get your shoulders moving. So yeah, that I think they're one of the ones that we always speak about great form where possible, and this for me is is one that you want to be absolutely spot on, maybe even again in all honesty, to the detriment of your strength by 10%, 15-20%, but for for for long-term gain.

SPEAKER_01 18:13

Yeah, I'd say especially with your push sessions or when you've got your pressing movements on your upper days, take your time with your warm-ups. I think that's the most important thing. You know, even getting the resistance band out, some sort of face pulls, your band that dislocates really get some blood sign over your throat around that shoulder joint. If in doubt, if if if you warm her up and a warm-up just doesn't feel right, take another warm-up. Always take the extra warm-up, always never, never, ever don't take if you feel like you need an extra warm-up, take the extra three to five minutes, whatever it is. Don't go into that first work and set with any sort of doubt that your shoulders are ready. Again, 100% mate, totally agree with that. So many people will put themselves out by you know not warming up properly, trying to do again classic warm rep maxes when they they have no uh need to do it. Another good strategy, what people can do with that. I I've used this with a couple of gents as well. So maybe do a lighter set first. It's an actual working set, but you might do a 10 to 15 repper first. That's your first work set, and then your second set is maybe a six to eight. So you do your lighter set first, it's still a productive set, but you've got your you've got the juices flowing, then you do your heavier set. That's a nice way for you know people who want to be even more cautious with the shoulders.

SPEAKER_00 19:22

Yeah, I mean, I I'm I'm kind of smiling away here because that's something that I I really do. I probably do something like 40 to 60 reps just to get that blood in to get them nice and warm. Um I've obviously got a note of of the weight I'm gonna be like attempting as part of the the working sets, but 100% getting nice and warm again, even if it's to the slight detriment, uh you maybe not push as much as you're actually capable of. But again, as long as you're getting stronger over time and pushing your sets towards the proximity to failure or even to failure, as we know we stand in, it's one of those ones that you'll feel you'll feel quite safely. You you don't need to worry too much. Um another lift I'm really a big fan of, not just the the side uh laterals, is uh Y raises. Um

Deltoid Development Strategies

SPEAKER_00 20:07

so it's just hitting the slightly different head, and when you've when you're fatigued, if you're doing your side lateral dumbbells correctly, you'll still have some you'll still have some force left in that other in that other head to the shoulder, so you can get the Y raises, which is just basically the lift to the front, if you imagine just making like a Y with your body instead of going right out to the sides. I'm a big, big fan of that movement as well.

SPEAKER_01 20:31

Yeah, it's a good movement that it's it's great for shoulder mobility as well, shoulder health. So it it ticks two bears at once down, but basically you get some good rear delt stimulus, you're still gonna get a little bit of medial delt in there as well, but it's uh it's good for shoulder health as well. In terms of rear delt mates, I I I like the wire's, I've used that before. I also like a good old-fashioned just um a rear delf fly. I just get on a uh a pec deck, you know, bring it all the way in, and just a rear del fly. Big fan of that one as well.

SPEAKER_00 20:57

Just nice and simple. It's pretty much the majority of what I do, and I've been blessed with um not bad real delts. You can see mine from from the from the side, which is nice.

SPEAKER_01 21:07

You know, you will get a lot of rear delt from your back work anyway. It's just nice to touch them up with uh you know at least some isolation in the if you're trying to maximize the developments of them. But again, we're we're getting into you're getting into uh the the the mind the mind you should really you know do a lot of people need to worry about coming in and isolating the rear delts if they don't have a lot of time, probably not. It's more for someone who wants to have a maybe a little bit more focus on you know maybe bodybuilding style.

SPEAKER_00 21:34

Yeah, I mean the good thing as well about you know rear delts again as as we're mentioning here, you don't need to go crazily heavy on them. I would even throw out there that you can do them as an antagonistic um superset. I I don't think there's anything wrong. I'm not the biggest fan of supersets. I think they have their place. I think that's a great point that you make if someone's struggling for a bit of time. I can't I can't remember, if I'm honest, if we've covered that in the podcast. We certainly covered it in the spaces, but we can absolutely again when we're talking about we meet people where they're at. If someone's only got 45 minutes to do a workout, then we make sure that we can get everything touched in the 45 minutes. It's still going to be efficient enough for want of a better term. But again, it's something that could go in definitely as a superset because it's not a huge muscle, it doesn't take a lot, and even a couple of sets of 20 reps, which to be honest, again, is is kind of where I've sat with mine. You get a lot from that, and you can do it as long as your pec deck machine's free. Because what I do notice in my own gym, it's a very, very busy machine, and we've only got one of them.

SPEAKER_01 22:38

Yeah, same yeah, yeah. Can be annoying, but it's one of those where I think it's it's better than a higher rep range, isn't it? Read work. You don't want to be doing via delt work, sets of six again. You know, you want to try and isolate the uh the delt. So it's definitely again very similar to medial delt, higher rep ranges. So we've got chest, all the delt heads. I think I'd go into triceps just to finish off all of the sort of press and musculature, and then go onto biceps. So just to I've got to get this one in to tie all of the press and musculature in together. I think you're probably gonna know what I'm gonna say. But my my probably my favourite tricep movements or my my favourite press overall is a good old classic weighted dip, absolute staple in my routine. I I love them so much, and I and I think if you've got stronger weighted dips, hold your chest, your delts, your triceps, it's gonna show on your physique. There's no two ways about it.

SPEAKER_00 23:26

Yeah, I mean there's absolutely no denying an absolutely elite um piece of kit. Again, you get the arguments when people start to use assisted dips because that's for um in quotes women, etc. Absolutely nothing wrong with that. Especially, you know, if you're if you're new to the gym or maybe returning, it's a great way to make sure that you're hitting the musculate musculature, that you're getting great form, or you're getting the range of motion that you need, and you've got safety there as well. Obviously, your progression there is you'd be uh aiming and hoping to get to uh onto maybe some dick bars, and again over time maybe adding some five kilos, ten kilos, whatever it would be, a plate. But like you say, absolutely fantastic stimulus from that. I personally like I love a dual handed overhead dumbbell, and I also like at the moment cuffs for single arm, and I'm a big fan as well of the Vulcan belt, and um basically it's a tricep press down, but you're but you're seated, um, and I think that's one of my favourites really at the moment.

SPEAKER_01 24:27

Yeah, uh big big fan of all the pushdowns myself, mate, like with the Vulcan attachments, even a V bar, an EZ bar. It's all bread and butter stuff, isn't it? Like triceps, if you've got a weighted zip in there, right? Some sort of push down variation, and then an overhead extension of some sort, whether that's with a cable or a dumbbell, even if you if you do like um e z bar skull crushes, if your elbow tolerates them, it's still a good movement. But yeah, mine doesn't. I I can't do them. I have to do I have to do dumbbell extensions, it puts my wrist and elbow in a better position. But yeah, uh in terms of isolated movements, mate, just any sort of pushdown for me, big fan of them all, an overhead extension because you really want to get that long head in there as well. Important to know your long head is your biggest head of your tricep. You've obviously got three heads. That long head is the big sweeping one right at the back. If you really want to fill out that sleeve with your long head work, your overhead extension work, it is going to be important.

SPEAKER_00 25:20

One thing I've noticed for the the overhead recently is putting a cuff on. I've really, really found that to be really beneficial. You're taking out one of one of my weakest points. My wrists don't have big wrists, sadly. So I can't grow them, can't do anything with them. So getting the cuff on that overhead cable is is absolutely fantastic. It's for me one of those staples. Again, I like the um overhead dumbbell press for that very reason. I think that that's a great movement, and you can even take that down to a single arm as well.

Tricep Training Essentials

SPEAKER_00 25:49

Again, you don't want to be overshooting the weight, you know, it's great control. Personally, even one skull crusher lines up or lights up my my tendons, and it just it's it's not it's not a good, it's not a good look, it's not a good feel. And I think as well, they're one of the exercises I would say that you see in the gym that just get absolutely butchered. So if you are going to do skull crushers, you know, there is a medium amount of risk in doing them, but definitely make sure that you're getting your form spot on to number one save you from any trouble, but number two, making sure that you're really connecting with the target muscle because I don't I don't mean to be disparaging at all. This isn't like a cheeky thing, but it's you see people when they're doing the skull crusher, and it's like you're not hitting you're not hitting the tricep at all. It becomes an ego lift, it's one of those ones for some reason the ego really comes in and it's like just take the weight down a little bit and focus on connecting if you're lucky enough that you can do skull crushers because a fantastic exercise that they really are, to be honest.

SPEAKER_01 26:45

And very similar to the shoulder joints, like the situation where we were mentioning there about being careful with your shoulders, like you've got to be very careful with your elbows as well because that can put people out of the game as well. I don't know how many people have heard, or my elbows are smashed. Your elbows are probably smashed because your form's probably shit. That's that that's the reality of it. So, what you've got to look at is number one, check your ego at the door, keep your load management on point. Another classic for tricep work, I got this from John Meadows years ago. You do your you do your pushdowns before you do any sort of overhead work, so you really get some blood into the tricep, sine over your fluid, all the all the way around your elbow joints. You've got that cushion them before you get into any sort of overhead work, which can be a little bit more invasive on the elbow. So, just in case anybody has got any sort of creaky elbows, maybe doing your push downs first, maybe as an example, a single arm pushdown or your V-bar pushdown before you go into your overhead work, and that way you know you can save your elbows a touch, you a little bit of pre-fatigue on your thrice, but still get your sort of long head working as well. As long as you've got correct low management and techniques, you're gonna be good to go.

SPEAKER_00 27:48

Yeah, it's funny. I actually made a tweet about this a couple of weeks ago. It's like sometimes you forget why you do things, but you just kind of do them and they're there, and that's exactly what I do with my tricep work. So to start off with, it's um the the the rope, and then after that it's um the single arm curve, and then the overhead extension comes a bit later and near the end as it stands at the moment. But that probably comes from a spot where we've probably watched the same video because at that as soon as you said that there are remembered. So it's funny how you just sort of follow things through, forget what you must have read or listened to, and then why you obviously place or program it then at that particular point.

SPEAKER_01 28:29

And even just going off field on me. I think it's one of those things, naturally, as as a as a lifter, you'd find that out for yourself. You'd know, okay, going into me over everywhere straight away doesn't feel that goes to my elbows, feel a bit creaky. Hang on a minute, I'm gonna do my push dance first. It's just things that you'd feel out anyway, and it makes total sense. So, again, we we don't need a we don't need a a scientific paper to tell us some things, it genuinely is you you just you you find out by doing things and and the wisdom of it. That's another good point of it.

SPEAKER_00 28:57

100%. Where do you want to go to next? You want to go to the old bicep?

SPEAKER_01 29:01

Bicep, bicep, yeah. Everyone's favour. I think we I think we share the same one on this, don't we?

SPEAKER_00 29:06

Yeah, what would you what would you go for the old dumbbell dumbbell preacher curl standing for me? Um absolutely love them, a fantastic exercise. Yeah, I do love a standing um bicep curl as well, I'll be honest, especially with the particular dumbbells that we've got in Extreme Gym in Glasgow. I call them the beach balls. I've seen that honestly, like when you pick them up and you've there's this bar with a cylindrical thing around it, but when you're curling them, it just goes straight onto the bicep, takes your wrist out of the equation as well. Just fantastic bits of kit. And again, as long as you're doing it right, Esther might be a tiny little bit of you know, you go forward a little bit, and then some machines, you know, it should be like straight up, straight down. There is a little bit of going forward, but again, when when I'm leaning and taking videos of the training, you literally see the where the biceps working and you see everything that's going on, so I'm not too concerned there, but an absolutely fantastic piece of kit, and they always draw a little bit of attention because I don't think they're too popular. In fact, I even had a a gent told me that I stole the idea somehow because he had it patented, and I was like, Yeah, I'd just go to the gym and use the use the dumbbells that are there, they're not actually mine.

SPEAKER_01 30:23

They always cause a stir every time I post a so the single arm dumbbell preacher with you can do it on on the on the preacher curl pad or a bench, whatever feels better for you. But every time I post that exercise on Twitter, the comments are full of people telling me that I'm gonna tear a bicep, and it's like, no, the exercise isn't the problem, it's the execution of it. I've had so many people tell me you've got balls, you you're gonna tear your bicep. And it's like, no, I'm using I'm using anywhere between sometimes a 30 pound dumbbell upwards of a 40. So I'm in you know, 30 to 40 pound dumbbell, that's not excessively heavy, but I'm controlling the weight, I'm controlling that eccentric as I get into that stretch. I'm not dive bombing into the bottom, I'm not just dropping the dumbbell, I'm not letting gravity pull me down, and I'm also using a weight that I can control. It's not like I'm using an 80-pound dumbbell and just letting it throw me down into the bottom, because of course you're gonna tear a bicep like that. So if you're coming in trying to YOLO lift a single-arm dumbbell preacher, and you've heard your bicep doing that, that's your fault for being a tit. That's not the exercise's fault. You know, but this is what you have. So many people who are like that who want to with that exercise is bad and the fearmonger. It's the execution of it, and this is a great one of it. You of course you'd have to be careful, like every other exercise in the gym. Make sure you're nice and controlled, your load management is on point. And again, don't be coming in trying to do sets of four on a dumbbell preacher, you know, keep it in that sort of moderate range, 10 to 15, control the weight. Let the bicep do the work. Stop trying to arm wrestle with the dumbbell. Simple.

SPEAKER_00 31:49

It makes perfect sense, and you probably want to avoid straight bars on a preacher movement. Z bars are good, and as we've mentioned earlier, you're probably better getting a little bit of blood in. One thing I do personally is I do some back movements, including some sort of close, closer grip stuff. So you've got biceps as a secondary, it's pushing a little bit of blood in. Obviously, then if you're moving to biceps, you're going to start pushing again some blood into the bicep before you get to your your top weight. Um, I was watching a video just the other day, and I've got 25 kilos on the preacher curl, so I think that was my my kind of top lift. Um, I got I think six in the video. I I wouldn't go any less, I'd lift anything under six in all honesty. Um, certainly wouldn't do that with with the preacher curl. So, you know, again, do do what works for you. And if if you go on to that, and obviously we're talking about preacher curls here, if you feel that it's stretching your bicep just a little bit too much, it might just be that that exercise isn't for you, and that's absolutely fine. Again, as we've we've mentioned and we cover, there's no must-do exercise. It could be that maybe you've just got a little bit of a stiff bicep, maybe you need to you know stretch it off a bit more, ease it off, and and maybe come back and try it again at another time. It could be just that your mechanics don't suit the lift, so don't try and shoehorn yourself into anything. You don't necessarily need to do a dumbbell preacher curl.

Bicep Training Techniques

SPEAKER_00 33:14

There might be some machinery in the gym that works or or something else. Standing might just work for you. So it's one of those things that you know, find what works for you and don't become you know embroiled with all of the dogma that's out there on the internet that says it doesn't count unless you fully stretch your bicep out and you know pop your elbow back and whatever. Just have have honestly just have common sense. I'll take it will take you far.

SPEAKER_01 33:39

A good like for like sub for that one, mate, is a you instead of a uh a dumbbell preacher, people like a cable preacher, so you can take the the preacher bench or uh uh an incline bench over to the cable stack, it's it's another good movement, and again, because you keep that sort of uh constant tension as well with the cable.

SPEAKER_00 33:55

Uh yeah, but yeah, but France it it takes 17 whole seconds for my movement bench over. It's too much. It's too much, mate. 17 seconds to the waste. We haven't got 17 seconds. Those tweaks because it takes 17 seconds to write the tweet. You could have just moved the bench.

SPEAKER_01 34:12

Yeah, it's uh people people in love space, people will just come up with any sorts of problem, won't they? They really are crazy. I think a good point here, mate, that we're talking about the elbows and making sure that you're warm. Underrated topic would be I always do this. I wear a hoodie, I like to wear a hoodie when I'm training, keep keep my body warm, especially if you're living in cold places, Glasgow, you know, like getting in there and it's practically tropical here today for us.

SPEAKER_00 34:38

It's 12 12 whole degrees.

SPEAKER_01 34:40

It's tropical weather, that mate. The most of it. I've got the shorts on. I know, but yeah, staying warm in the gym. You know, even me here being in in South America, like it's it's it's sweltering, it's hot, but I still train in a hoodie and uh joggers. I like to stay warm, I like to sweat when I'm in the gym. It just feels right, and that is another thing for some people, maybe some older gents as well. You know, if you're all your joints can be a little bit creaky, a little bit achy. Wear hoodies, wear joggers, keep yourself nice and warm in the gym, sweat. You know, you're gonna trap in that heat, the insulation. I also like to look at wearing the hoodies and joggers, it's like it's it's like my training uniform as well. Like I it's it's it's time to work now. I'm ready. It's like my training outfit. So it's like a little like a little mental switch with it.

SPEAKER_00 35:25

And I totally feel that and understand that. When when our gym first opened, I um compare it to the the scene from Rocky when he when he's in punching the meat in the back of the van. Yeah, yeah. So at that point, you had to wear your vest, a t-shirt, a jumper, a hoodie, your joggies, and a pair of shots under them, and there was no talking. So nobody spoke in the gym. You spoke outside the gym when you got onto the gym floor, nobody spoke because it was too cold, and you got too cold if you stopped training with the intensity. So that sort of forced you through. Unfortunately, they they got heating in, boo. But um from a from a training perspective, you know, it it made you train intensely because you knew if you get too cold, you know, you you're really gonna feel it, and and you didn't want that, because again, like you're saying, you want to be warm, you want to be feeling that kind of getting the sweat on so that you you know you're putting on a good shift.

SPEAKER_01 36:15

Yeah, absolutely, mate. And and you know, we know the the mental benefits of even if it is placebo, if you think that you're less injury prone and you're warmer and you're ready to work mentally, if you're ready up there, the body follows, as we spoke about so many times. So yeah, let's uh let's get on to the back, mate. The big old uh musculature of the back, lats, traps, um, rhomboids, erectors, all that stuff. So yeah, what what what would we go with, mate? What if we kick off with lats? Um, what would be your your favourite exercise?

SPEAKER_00 36:50

I was expecting that. Sorry. Um my absolute favourite exercise is the old bog standard plate-loaded row, you know, two two pins on either side or two places to load your weights on either side. Some of them had a slight angle down, some of them were just kind of uh straight up and down, just get in and row. I I honestly think that that's one of the things that really has helped my own back um development. Really sad to say, you don't see them much these these days, if at all. Hammer strength have got one of them. Um I think a lot more popular now are things like T-bar rows, chest supported T-bar rows. Um we we'll get on to some of the ones that we do use, but yeah, for me that that's probably right up there for me.

SPEAKER_01 37:40

Yeah, I I if if we're talking specifically lats, I go a good old close grip weighted pull-up. So just outside shoulder width, what you gotta look at is your elbow positioning, right? So I always go something to go off when your elbow is a little bit more tucked in, coming down towards your your back pocket, scraping your rib cage, you're gonna get a little bit more lats. Anything really elbow flared, you're gonna get a little bit more upper back. Now, obviously, there's crossover bit between the two, like you can't just fully isolate your lat without any sort of upper back. You're always gonna get that crossover with back training. That is important to understand that when you're doing your movements, but you can buy a certain area. So if I was going specifically for lats, I'd go for a close grip pull-up and really keeping that elbow tucked, right? Trying to drive that elbow into the back pocket. And so, yeah, if we if we were going lats, that's that's what I'd roll with.

SPEAKER_00 38:31

Yeah, that's funny. I mean, that's exactly how I would grip that machine, so it would be neutral grip, even then. Like back then, I think the real popular one now is you know, you're driving the elbow back and you're driving the elbow down into the pocket. Those those sort of um terms have come to the fore. But these are the things that just again kind of came naturally to you because you're like, I've got this machine here, I need to get it back so that I can get the muscle fully shortened. And these things were kind of already in your head, so yeah, I'm a big, big fan of that.

SPEAKER_01 39:00

Do you ever remember the first time when you understood how to actually train your lats and train your upper back? No, that that difference between it because there is a difference, and you don't know this when you first start, even your first couple of years, you just don't know it, you just roll on things, and anyone who says it otherwise they're lying. But what when when when that clicks and you're like, ah, that's how I use me, me lots, that's how I do that. When that clicks, yeah, it's like it's it's it's an absolute game changer for your backside.

SPEAKER_00 39:27

It's one of the good things I think that's come over the years with machine and machinery. There's more and easier ways now to sort of do it because you've got a machine that breaks it down, you know, your sort of overhand grip coming back is gonna hit the kind of the again, hitting the upper back. But when you've got those ones, you know, you're you're hitting the the delats is the bias. But again, going back to like when I first started training, probably didn't really know that. It was just like I've got this kind of exercise and and I need to do that. Another one that's come to the fore, I guess, is is t-bar row and chest supported T-bar row in particular, and probably throw in there because not uh not everybody's gym will have T-bar row or chest supported T-bar row, so seal rows or dumbbell bench rows, yeah, seal row.

SPEAKER_01 40:16

You don't see that a lot, but that's a great exercise. That one. If a gym's got that one, good to go. Chest supported dumbbell rows. Again, if you don't have a chest supported T-bar, that that's that's my favourite for upper back, chest supported T-bar. Like for me, nothing beats that for upper back for me. Like Romboit, straps, chest supported T-bar, the stability, and just everything from that, just pure output through the upper back. But if you don't have a chest supported T-bar, you can replicate that with um, you know, everyone's got an incline bench and dumbbells, chest supported, uh, incline dumbbell row. If you were trying to hit upper back, again you want a little bit more of an elbow flare position. If you were trying to buy a small more lat with a chest supported row, you'd probably want a little bit more of an elbow tuck. But yeah, that's that's what I go with for um rope for back. But since we're talking about back, I think we should throw in and talk on barbell rows. What's your take on those? Because it's you know, it's it's it's a popular exercise. You you see it, you know. If you if you if you type in on Google how to train back, you know, barbell rows will be one of the first exercises that comes up. And you know, we we know our good mate Dean, he hates them, he gives them a good bit of hate on uh on the timeline, but where would you stand on barbell rose? What's your take on them?

SPEAKER_00 41:27

I I think we need to do a top ten butchered exercise list. So I've just frantically scribbled that down in the background.

SPEAKER_01 41:35

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 41:35

Again, I think it's like anything. You make a fantastic point. People have been doing bent over barbell rose for time immemorial. You know, again, we can't argue with the the the evidence that's out there, and when we say evidence, we're talking about guys that are out there doing it. Um, if it's done well and it's not butchered, I don't think you can argue

Back Musculature and Training Strategies

SPEAKER_00 41:55

with it as an exercise. Again, you can argue if you want to get into is it optimal to 6.7 degrees of whatever. You could argue that all day. You know, we we're talking about it's a good exercise, it's just one, unfortunately, I think that gets butchered. And again, being honest and transparent, it's one that I'm absolutely terrible at, and I used to get so frustrated because I'd get to a certain point, and every time I do it, I'd stand up, and I'd every time I get to a weight, I'd be like, Don't stand up, and you do that, and you stand up, and you're like so. I actually again I gave up T-bar rolls, but it it hasn't affected me in my back development because to be honest, one of my strongest parts, and I just didn't get on with the lift, so it was like one of those ones for me, and just a good example of it didn't work for me, so I I moved on to something else.

SPEAKER_01 42:43

And the reason I again I don't think it's a bad exercise, I think it's definitely got its place, and but I think you'd have to look the reason I don't do it, you need to look at where where do you place your your deadlift variations or your hinge variations because if you got them on leg day and you're doing RDLs or deadlifts, your your spinal erectors are going to be smoked. So you don't want to be that's the benefit of the chest supported rows, is that you you train your upper back and your lats, what you're trying to hit, but you save your lower back. So if you're someone who's doing a lot of deadlifts, you know, maybe a lot of bent over rows might not be the smartest play. If you're someone who isn't doing a lot of deadlifts, you might have a little bit more recovery capacity for barbell bent over rows if they work for you. So again, that's just a that's just a little bit of nuance with them. But again, I don't think that a bad exercise. Again, it's it's all about the the workman with the tools that he's got. If you give someone who's skilled and can, you know, you walk into a gym and you could maybe put two plates aside on a barbell row and get some good stimulus or a good back workout in with that if you had to. Fair play, you know, it's uh it's gonna do do a job for you. But we can't talk about back training, mate, without talking about lifting straps. There's no lifting straps in the jungle. There's no lifting straps in the wild. You can't that's cheating. That's cheating, isn't it? We can't do that.

SPEAKER_00 43:58

When we're talking You know, our main focus is hypertrophy. We're in the gym to build muscle. I mentioned earlier about myself having small wrists. I don't have the biggest forearms in the world either as a result. So, why would I lose reps when I'm there to build muscle? Do I want to get stronger over time? Absolutely. And one of the things we can do there, obviously, we're talking about straps, we're going to use them, using them for your top lifts, but only for your top lifts, and everything else outside of that you can use to build up your grip strength so that it doesn't become like a completely limiting factor. It will be to a degree, but you can obviously get a little bit of practice in by not using your straps for every single set that you do. But when it comes to your this is your top set or top sets, and and you know you've got your numbers in your book, it would always be again we're saying common sense, it's just logic, isn't it? You know, why why would you not have something that's going to give you another couple of reps that moves you towards your hypertrophy goals?

SPEAKER_01 44:58

Well, as we always say, mate, like I probably explain this to clients probably weekly. This question comes up about lifting straps. And our our lower back, upper back, lats, loot hamstrings, your whole posterior chain is so much stronger than what your grip can handle. Once you start, you get a couple of lifting lifting years on experience under your belt, you know, your grip is not going to stay the same strength as your whole posterior chain. It's just not, and rightfully so. So then why would you shortchange the stimulus that you can put on your posterior chain because you're you're allowing grip to be a limited factor? It makes zero sense. We're after the most jacked posterior chain that we can get. We're not after the most jacked grip or forearms or the world's strongest grip. If you want to train grip, if you specifically want to train grip, go and train that on the side. Do an extra five to ten minutes at the end of a session of some sort of dead hangs or plate pinches. If that's what you really want to do and you're training for the specificity of grip strength, go and do that. But if you're if we're after you know getting jacked, post area chain, lifting straps, you know, it's it's an absolute no-brainer.

SPEAKER_00 46:01

Yeah, I mean, silly, you know, like a little bit of liquid chalk if you're if your gym allows it. Some gyms don't, you know, allow it these days. But again, anything that's going to prevent you from that limiting factor, because what's the point in failing at a weak point? You know, we'll probably get in when we touch on one RMs um or or you know, that sort of that range of movement. Like why why have something that limits you when you've got tools there that don't take anything longer than 10-15 seconds to attach onto your arms and you can you know make the make the most of that. Just again, it's just logic, it's just common sense.

SPEAKER_01 46:34

Yeah, and just to a final point with straps, and I think we we spoke about this in the species. I use a little bit of a different approach with straps. I will use straps on all my warm-up sets as well. Not because I need them, it's to get neurologically in the groove with a lift. Let's say if I'm doing an RDL or a deadlift, if I only put my straps on for that top set, it feels a little bit foreign by the time I come to the top set. I'll I'll warm up with 60 kilo with straps, and I get in the groove, I grease the groove, it's it's it's it's that of using the straps. So I'm very meticulous with that. I I I will use straps on basically every sort of deadlift or any any sort of back work, even if I don't need it.

SPEAKER_00 47:11

I always use straps with what about the new machine that's kind of come to the fore? Well, C Dean and what he loves to talk about. We do have one of those in our in our sister gym. I haven't used it personally. I'm quite excited to try it, but it basically mirrors um you know that sort of that hinge, reverse hinge almost.

SPEAKER_01 47:30

The booty builder ones.

SPEAKER_00 47:32

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 47:34

I think I think they're decent machines, mate. But for me, I I just I don't think it's ever gonna replace a building that general thickness through your erectors, uh a deadlift or a Romanian deadlift, and getting legitimately strong with that there. I just I just can't see how someone who can ragdog five plates plus off a floor, you're not gonna be able to get the same stimulus with a booty builder. I just don't think you can over time. Are they still a good exercise? Absolutely, of course. But if we're talking about who's gonna if we're talking about stepping on stage, yeah, who's gonna have that sort of wow factor through the lower back? They're not gonna be building that on a booty builder. I really don't see that.

SPEAKER_00 48:09

Be more of an accessory then to doing something as opposed to maybe even as we touched on earlier, pushing some blood in and then getting on to to sort of main lift. Yeah, it'd definitely be interesting to see them.

SPEAKER_01 48:21

So we've got everything apart from I'll probably finish off on on abs. What would you go with for abs? Just dead simple ab crunch machine, I go with mate.

SPEAKER_00 48:29

Yeah, very lucky that we've got access to uh the ab crunch machine, you know, the sort of the one that your knees kind of come up front and you just crunch down. Some people might not have access to that, so probably just be cables. Again, I think it's an exercise that gets butchered, so be really focused on what that forum should look like, about how you want to contract your abs and not let anything else take over. I think it's another one that's done too heavily, approached too heavily by by too many people, and it ends up looking again. I hate saying it because it really sounds quite disparaging, but you do see it and you're like it's not really hitting your abs, unfortunately. It's it becomes a bit bit of a again a like a butchered exercise. I also like um decline sit-ups with a weight on my chest. For me, I can get really good um contraction on on abs. I don't really get anything through lower back. Again, something worth trying for people to see. Because I have spoken to people in the past, it's like not it hurts my lower back, or I I I I feel pain through like um you know, kind of the midsection where I shouldn't. So it's just one of those things.

SPEAKER_01 49:34

That's the thing with abs training. You when you understand, you're going you're going through spinal flexion and extension. That's the role of the abs. So whenever you're doing an ab crunch or a decline sit-up cable crunch, think about I'm going through spinal flexion and extension. That's what you've got to be thinking when you're doing the movements. Again, we're trying to train the abs, not just move from A to B. So when you understand that, okay, spinal flexion, extension, the big cue. I like it. I'm trying to bring elbows towards my knees. That's what I focus on. And you won't be able to use as much weight as you think. So again, nice little pause and that contraction, and just you know, drop a little bit of weight and make sure you are actually hitting the abs because it's very easy just to shift load on that one.

SPEAKER_00 50:12

Definitely. Again, it's funny the things that you just do almost subconsciously. And I can imagine myself doing that when I've been doing the the uh weight on my chest because my elbows are in, and I'm I'm just doing that kind of curving motion, so yeah, definitely. Do you want to cover traps? Something for traps?

SPEAKER_01 50:29

Traps, I just go any sort of like shrug variation. I personally don't do shrugs, but if you want it to be hone in on uh on your traps, some sort of like dumbbell shrug, but I get a lot of traps made from deadlifts, my RDLs and deadlift variations, and even all the upper back stuff like chess border tea barrow, they they smoke my traps.

SPEAKER_00 50:50

I I've even seen more popular now specific machines for for training shrugs. Um I quite like them. They're quite good. There's one that's seated, one that's standing, prefer the seated over the standing, and like you say, standard dumbbell, get your traps touching your ears. I don't I'm not really a big fan of the kind of roll and shoulder type ones.

SPEAKER_01 51:10

But the the thing with shrugs, mate, like you're not gonna build if you're someone who avoids like any sort of like heavy hip hinge work, if you avoid that and you're trying to build big traps with like 50 pound dumbbells, it's it's not gonna happen. It's not gonna happen at all. You're you you're stepping over what's the what's the what's what's the the the analysis? You're stepping over dollars to pick up times or something like that. It's it's it's it's a classic saying, and it's true. Very, very true. We've done it again, Francis. Done it again, mate. Yeah, that was a good one, man. Lots of uh lots to dive into there. You come away from these, mate, you feel you feel happy, don't you? Like having a good conversation about training.

SPEAKER_00 51:45

I'm totally energized, and it's it's just good as well to sort of go through and look at things from from that sort of deeper dive perspective. You know, we can go right in here and present different scenarios, different outcomes as well, which which I think is really good and really helpful.

SPEAKER_01 52:01

Absolutely, mate. So if anybody is interested in coaching or working with us directly, what's your what's your at again? So I don't I don't butcher it. At Benjamin Yeezus.

SPEAKER_00 52:11

Benjamin Yeezus.

SPEAKER_01 52:12

Yep, at Benjamin Yeezus on X Twitter. I'm at coachfhm. You know where we are, give us a DM. We don't bite. We're happy to have a conversation with you. But uh yeah, another good episode in the bags, and uh we'll we will speak to you next week.

SPEAKER_00 52:25

Catch you next week, everyone, and just thanks again for all the continued support and and messages. Really appreciate it.

SPEAKER_01 52:30

See you later.