#12 Kaytlin Neill - What Athletes Know About the Body That Most People Never Learn

In this episode, I sit down with Kaytlin Neil — an ex pro MMA fighter, former cheerleader, and coach — for a raw, honest conversation about what it actually takes to transform your body and why most people stay stuck despite their best efforts.

We get into the mental game, what fighting teaches you about discipline and identity, 2026 fitness industry shifts and more.

If you're someone who trains hard, eats relatively well, and still can't crack it — this one is for you.

What we cover:

• Kaytlin's journey from cheerleading to professional fighting
• What fighters understand about the body and mind that gym-goers never learn
• Why people quit when they're closest to the result
• The identity shift that actually drives transformation
• What's real biology after 30 

📲 Follow Kaytlin: https://www.instagram.com/kaytlinkatnissmma/

📲 Follow me: https://www.instagram.com/ir.taza/

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Welcome back to the Inside the Method Podcast. Today I've got a good friend of mine, Kaitlyn Neal, and I just to dive into things from the get-go. One thing I know you for a little minute, and I kind of want to dive into this from the get-go. You started in dance before, right? Previously.

SPEAKER_01 0:19

Yeah, so I grew up doing dance gymnastics and cheerleading as a very girly girl.

SPEAKER_00 0:23

Interesting. How did that transition? Because I wanted to dive into how did that transition from, and obviously now you're into like you kind of take a different realm, but from dance into fighting into then where you are today. How did the transition actually happen in the sense?

SPEAKER_01 0:36

Yeah, so I was a cheerleader and I cheerleaded for six years. I was like captain this my senior year, and I thought I was really good. Like I always made like the varsity team and whatever. And then I went and tried out for the college team and I didn't make it. And I was like, what? And I was like, I don't know anything else other than cheerleading. And then so I was kind of lost that first year of college. And then my friends took me to some MMA fights, and I'm like, I'm gonna do that. So I just found a gym and started training, and then 15 years later, I'm still doing it.

SPEAKER_00 1:06

Interesting. Do you ever get are you still into it right now?

SPEAKER_01 1:10

Um yeah, so I'll train every once in a while. I'm not actively competing at the moment. I might do another one or two, but we'll see.

SPEAKER_00 1:16

Are you thinking that? Yeah. I think Isaca you always get bit by the get bit by the bug when you get more into it and you're like, you know what, let's just give one more go as well. It's uh I feel like I feel like that happens a lot with bodybuilding where people say I'm never gonna compete again, they compete again. And then it's back into the whole competitive style sense as well. For you, like overall, just to kind of dive into MMA as well. I wanted to kind of dive into the what got you into it. I know you've taken it to a whole new level, like you kind of take it to the top, which has been amazing too. Um, do what was the kind of like intention going into it? Was it more from like a competitive perspective? You wanted to kind of see essentially what you were made of, what's what you can get out of the spawn, or were you like, hey, I just want to be the best and what I do, and that's where I took off.

SPEAKER_01 1:53

So I basically just saw MMA as a sport that you could do up into your later years, because a lot of the people that I watched were in their like late 20s, early 30s, late 30s, and I was like, oh, if I do this, I can fight for a really long time. Whereas cheerleading had such a short lifespan, um, obviously through high school and then a little bit through college if you made the team. Um, and then after that, you're like, okay, you're done. There's nothing else you can really do. And so with MMA, I was like, oh, I could do this for a really long time. So that's kind of what intrigued me. Um, and then as far as competing goes, I'm just competitive. And so I was like, what better way to like test myself than to like fight someone?

SPEAKER_00 2:31

Again, someone else, right? Horror of a son. So are you more of like a solo sport person as like a single person, or are you like more teams? Because I'm always more single person.

SPEAKER_01 2:40

So it's kind of hard because I really loved being on a tier team. I love that. And then um, once I started fighting, I also loved that. But I also kind of navigate, or I guess not navigate, migrate to like MMA gyms that have a better team environment where it feels like you're more of a part of a team rather than just one solo fighter going in and training. So I would say probably I lean more towards the team. Interesting.

SPEAKER_00 3:03

Because I was speaking to a friend of mine as well. I'm not sure if you know Sonny Webster. So he he went down and went to like the Olympic weightlifting route. And we had a little bit of a chat, but like for him, it was more from a stance of like different gyms will give you different performance, quite a lot too. I know you actually had touched on that where it's essentially like you're into a different gym for a different team atmosphere. What like actually makes a good MMA gym? Because from like a weightlifter perspective, it'd be entirely different. There's equipment, there's you can see the whole layout, like what equipment we use, if it's old school, it tends to be better. But like from an MMA perspective, someone's getting into it and they want to get into that environment. What makes a good MMA atmosphere if they do want to get into that?

SPEAKER_01 3:41

So I think it kind of depends on the person and their personality. So there's some MMA gym gyms that I hear about, and I'm like, I like if I would have started there, I would have quit. Like I wouldn't have done it. And then for me personally, I like MMA gyms where the coaches actually care. So they ask who you are, they see what your goals are, they see why you're here, and then they kind of like actually take you under their wing and train you. Um a lot of MMA gyms will just see a new person and they won't even like give them a second chance, or like won't even like give them the time of day because they're a new person and they have so many people that filter in and out of the gym. Um, so I think just a gym that you feel like welcomed into, and then also maybe read the reviews because a lot of MMA gyms are a little bit sketchy. Um, some coaches unfortunately will take advantage of athletes, especially female athletes. So you want to avoid that. So just make sure that like you ask people who go there and if it's like a safe gym environment, and then kind of test out a couple and just see what your personality clicks with.

SPEAKER_00 4:39

Yeah, do you think there's like a stance where you're almost like when you got into the sport, what did you expect going in and compared to how it was actually like? Was there a big difference?

SPEAKER_01 4:48

Sorry, say that again.

SPEAKER_00 4:49

So, like you when you got into MMA and you kind of like let's say the first time you got into it was day one compared to where it ended up becoming to, but like, did you expect it to be entirely different to how the experience was in terms of MMA? Like those are things that you didn't expect to happen, or the experience you're like, I never thought it'd be more on say a mindset or certain tactical approach.

SPEAKER_01 5:07

Honestly, I was so naive when I walked into an MMA gym. I was just like, oh cool, I belong here, even though I'm the only girl in this gym. I'm like, this is great, why not? Why would I not be a fighter? And so I was so naive, so I didn't really have any expectations going into it. And so, kind of like what I was introduced to, I was like, Yep, this is normal, this is good. And luckily, my gym was really awesome. Like they were the top gym in the state for a long time. So um, it was it, I I got lucky there.

SPEAKER_00 5:35

Interesting. That's pretty interesting. And like for your first fight, how was the experience going into it? Because um, was there a period where it's like the first time you go into a fight, there's a preparation that you almost either obviously probably overprep or have like a certain prep protocol? How was the preparation for your first fight?

SPEAKER_01 5:49

So for my first fight, I when I heard I got a fight, I almost passed out. Like I was so passed out. I was like stoked. I was like, this is crazy, this is actually happening. And then I remember um waking up the morning of my fight, I'm like, this is better than Christmas morning. I can't believe this is happening. This is so cool. And then after the fight, I won and everybody thought I was kind of gonna lose just because I was such a grilly girl, and the other girl had her head shaved and walked out to like spring on music, and I was like blowing kisses while I was walking out, and I was wearing a fighting skirt and stuff. It was just like complete opposites, but I ended up winning and I was like, this is the coolest thing ever. I'm so glad I'm doing this. As far as like yeah, the preparation goes, I was just so naive walking into the cage as well. Like I could have got put in the cage with a monster and just gotten beat up, but luckily um I pulled out the win and it was a really good experience for me because then I didn't want to quit afterwards.

SPEAKER_00 6:42

You kind of that's really the strike, the streak, right? It's uh like a because I've never actually been to a map doing uh BJJ before on a one-to-one level, but from like an overall perspective, let's say you want some more impersonal, what are you thinking? Like as soon as you're there, you like thinking more it's like it's not this person out, or is it more of a tactical approach? Can I think of the next move? How does it really work in the arena? Just uh what are you thinking most of the time?

SPEAKER_01 7:04

Yeah, it kind of depends on the fight and my mindset. Like there's a lot of fights that I'll go into more confident than others, and so I kind of just like know what to do when I go in there and I win. Um, other fights I'm like a little bit more hesitant, and so I really lean on my coaches and just listen to what they're saying. So if long as long as I do what they're saying, then I'm good. Um, so that's kind of what I do. I like to filter out everything that's going on and just try to like really zone in and hear what my coaches are saying.

SPEAKER_00 7:32

Gotcha. Interesting. And there's like is there like an element of self-doubt going into it sometimes?

SPEAKER_01 7:37

Say that again.

SPEAKER_00 7:38

Is there like an element of self-doubt going into it?

SPEAKER_01 7:40

Where it's like uh it's like a it's like a roller coaster. Some days you're like, I'm the best fighter in the world, I could be Ronda Rousey, and then the next day you're like, I am awful. How did I even win like one fight ever? Like, what is happening here? So it definitely like depends on the day. Um but yeah, it's definitely a wild ride.

SPEAKER_00 8:01

Yeah, I I I kind of like uh it's funny I was saying this to on a different podcast earlier, but it's almost like I love the stance where you feel like there's so much work to do to catch up, because um, but for me it was almost like growing up, I was always like like I was a nerd, but I wasn't smart in like unnaturally athletic either. So I got a master's in maths, but it was very much like I'd almost have to put twice as much work as anybody else to catch up and then do more just to kind of go beyond that. Same with fitness too, like from a rugby background and swimming, it was more like which is kind of funny because yours is dance into my main man's uh swimming into rugby. I was like, that doesn't make any sense. That was more like uh first job, actually. Funnily enough, that was there and we used to be um Salford Red on the stadium at halftime. It's uh there'd be the chair leaders there, and then there'd be someone playing on the actual uh field, like our team versus someone else's team. But that would be like the gig, and then you'd always have like after school, preschool practices as well, which is quite interesting. But it's very much interesting because like I was never athletic, I was almost like I had to do a lot of work to catch up. I think that kind of pushes you a lot too, especially within business. And we'll dive into this briefly, but I feel like um the best athletes make the best business out of this, to be honest. And would you agree with that out of curiosity?

SPEAKER_01 9:07

I don't know, fighters are kind of dumb. They're not fighting with their figures. I feel like there's some fighters in there that use it as a platform to build their businesses, and those are the smart ones. But I feel like that's like 10% out of all the fighters who do it. Most of them are fighting, so they don't have to do a job, like they don't have to have a business. Yeah, yeah. Um maybe other athletes like from other sports are different, but fighters is just like you get everybody and anybody doing that.

SPEAKER_00 9:34

I think dance is probably the most intelligent sport, in my opinion. I think they teach us so much more discipline because I've heard a lot of stories how like the prep and the work that goes into it and how it becomes our identity to be honest. It's um it's funny you say that because I kind of see that, especially with funny, we're both in the fitness industry, but I see that's personal training too. There's some that are like, I'm just doing it because I don't want to get a job, and there's some that are actually I need I know how to do this and know what impacts I'm gonna have, which is quite funny too. But like um for you now, like are you did that kind of change your identity? Because then I'm imagining it did from where you started to where you want now. I guarantee there's probably a lot more confidence. But what is the biggest uh change you saw within yourself um through the entire journey that you actually got into MMA?

SPEAKER_01 10:19

So gosh, that's such a lot of question. I feel like I changed a lot as a human. Like when I was a cheerleader, that was my whole identity, and then I lost that identity, and I was like, crap, well, what do I do now? Then I started fighting, and then that became my whole identity. And then I got injured, I had back-to-back knee surgeries, and I was out for like I think a year and a half, and I was like, Well, who am I in who am I now? And that's when I started like businesses and stuff, and I was like, holy crap, I'm like, this is kind of fun. I'm like, I'm actually making a lot of money outside of fighting. This is cool. Um, and so I I think fighting really helped give me the platform and the confidence to be like, oh, I belong here. And it kind of gave me like the authority position. Whereas I feel like I would have been a per like a great personal trainer without ever have like fight, like have fought before. But now that I have that under my belt, I've cut weight so many times, people trust me a little bit more since they've probably like seen me on TV fighting or that kind of thing. So it's helped me a lot kind of just like build the confidence and the authority in myself and being like, oh no, I'm a professional MMA fighter, I can help these people too, and they kind of like look up to me for it. So that's pretty cool. So that's pretty awesome. Give me that good base.

SPEAKER_00 11:28

Yeah, 100%. And like for you overall, like in terms of like the because you've been in Pastor Train for how long now? Two years, three years, four years, four months.

SPEAKER_01 11:36

Oh gosh. So I've been a personal trainer ever since I was 18, and I was shadowing personal trainers when I was 15 years old in high school. So I've been in it for like 15, 30 years, but I didn't start one-on-one coaching until three years ago. So I didn't start like my own business by myself until just three years ago, which I wish I would have started a decade ago. I don't know why. Everyone says that.

SPEAKER_00 11:57

Everyone says that it's like it's a funny place to be, and uh, to be honest, what you said about the identity is funny because when you get out of sport, like everything is latched onto the identity. Even people may have it where well I coach, we coach a lot of guys for body composition where they get to a look and they're like, that's me now, and then when they have to purposefully lose it to build muscle or go into another trajectory, it's like who I am in a sense, and like the consistency isn't there as well. Either I feel like it's um I think the identity is a big thing because I think from a mental health perspective, just knowing who you are, I think you almost need something to latch onto. Which is why I think generally, like for me, I regardless how long I work, I need something in fitness, whether it's a sport, a goal, a phase, whatever it is. Otherwise, you do lose yourself, to be fair, which is quite um, I think where it's like here just need to kind of know like next year in May or this December and you're working towards this. Otherwise, you get trapped in the weeds a lot, to be fair. I think it's the one escape route for sure. Which is a big one. For um, just kind of dive in because what I wanted to do is kind of dive into the whole things that people don't like to know about fighting in terms of the tacticalities, in terms of what happens in the trenches. But for you, what's the actual relationship you found when it comes to let's say cutting weight and training for a fright? Like, what's the actual relationship between your body and mind? Because I'm sure you probably have to train both, and there's probably a protocol in the way you did that. But how did how did that work? Let's say you're preparing for a fright from a cutting perspective. How much time from busy mental and how did your experience with cutting and building conditioning and staying leading out?

SPEAKER_01 13:19

So I feel like I used it more as a math equation. And so it's like if I do this, then this happens, and then I will make weight. So I took all emotion and thought out of it, and I was like, nope, today I have to eat this, this, and this. That will make it so I hit my protein goal, I stay within my calories, I'll lose a half pound, and then by this time I'm gonna be this weight, and then I'm gonna make weight. So I always used it as a very like mathematical thing, and I tried to take any sort of emotion out of it. Um, just because the fighting part and the performing part is so emotional that I wanted the like weight cut to be easy. So I had an exact formula, exact like calculation that I would just follow and make weight every single time. Um and I've made weight for over, I think, like 20 professional events, and there's a lot of fighters that don't do that, especially women with like hormones and periods and stuff like that. And I'm like, well, if you just followed the calculation, you would be there. 100%.

SPEAKER_00 14:13

And for you, what do people expect when it comes to cutting weight that is kind of like completely flawed, would you say? Because I know people hear, oh, fat's cut for weights, but they almost don't know what that means.

SPEAKER_01 14:24

Yeah, so I would say fat loss and weight cutting is so different. So whenever I would cut weight for fights, people would be like, Show me how to do that, show me how to do that. And I'm like, You don't want to do that.

SPEAKER_00 14:33

You do not want to do that.

SPEAKER_01 14:35

No, I had to lose like probably anywhere between like five to twelve pounds the week of the fight so I can make weight, and that's all water. I'm not losing fat. I'm not gonna maintain that long term. Um, so I think when I say cutting weight, it's something that's not sustainable. Uh you're not gonna be able to do it long term, and nor should you ever want to do that. I know a lot of fighters will be like, oh, if I make weight this time, then I'll be able to walk around at a lower weight and then I'll be able to cut easier. But then that is kind of like stuff like that. So cutting weight is not sustainable.

SPEAKER_00 15:09

Yeah, it's funny, it's funny you say that because that kind of transitions to me, actually. Um, kind of what speaks to like the state of the industry, how like for example, I like to do a yearly photo shoot, and we always do like a I'm like, hey, I just want to get flawed. I always say to my coach, hey, towards the end, I'm waiting to flaw me, I'll wait till you struggle to get out of bed. Don't know why, it's quite satanic, but I'm like, I just want to go all in and just kind of take it the whole way. And like towards the end, I kind of it's funny now because there's peptides, there's use of like you can say people say biohacking, for example, but now I feel like it's gonna be a stance where people that are let's just say if it's fitness and body composition, they're getting lean, they just miss the whole journey now because not gonna say the shortcuts, but things like trisepatide, uh, retotutride, and all these are peptides that are gonna help you with that. They're almost using them on top of it. Where do you stand with peptides and the whole use of uh things that make the job easier, you can say?

SPEAKER_01 16:00

So there's a time and a place for things. Um for me, I kind of wish I could use like trusepatide or retotite for weight cutting because it like that would have made my life so much easier to not have to be like thinking about food all the time. I'm like, holy crap, that would have been like a game changer for me. But I also get drug tested, so I don't know. I would get a like pop for that. That would be embarrassing. And I'm like, oh, you can't make weight unless you're taking a zampag or whatever. And so I just I probably wouldn't do that on a professional level. However, like with clients, there's definitely girls who need it. Like there's people who I've seen like struggle, struggle losing weight. They've do it, they're doing everything perfect, sleeping, um, drinking water, hitting their calories, hitting their macros, working out consistently, and their body is just not budging. And sometimes they're gaining weight, and I'm like, okay, that's okay. Like, I think that can actually help them for those rare cases. But that's like two in over 300 people that I've been coaching ever. So um I think there's a time and a place. However, I think they're overused now. Um, but I think there's just like something to say about like hard work and discipline. And it's like if there's a little bit more pain there, then you'll appreciate it a little bit more.

SPEAKER_00 17:14

100%. It's funny you say that because like uh good friends of mine, Dad and Jay, they they're more in the competitive bodybuilding sense. They're like a they both compete at like different times, and one person's off-season, one person's off season. And I was like, hey, I've I'm not gonna say I never struggled with diets, but it was it four years ago or five years ago, one of my business coaches taught me about nicotine, and I was like, oh, what does that do? He's like, Yeah, you just killed your appetite, how'd you focus? I was like, I'm gonna start using that. And then I was like, this is brilliant, like I've got no food noise, I'm just chewing on nicotine all day. And like I was just cracking it out. I was like, dietine's easy. So when it came to like the pre-week protocol for like photoshop, I was like, it just feels easy, you drink a lot of water, you're on low calories, like I'm just gonna just chew on nicotine all day. But then I was like, you know what, the last diet, I was like, I just take it out, I just kinda like it gritty a little bit. But it's funny because it's there's so many ways to make it easy, but like you mentioned, the discipline you actually do miss on a lot for sure. Because sometimes I'm like, this almost feels easy and I feel like I'm not earned it as much. And when it comes to the actual day, you're like, could have done way more than that because it didn't feel hard. But there's something nice about it feeling hard, I'd say. Like um waking up early, doing X, and then struggling to do it, finish it, and every day you earn your sleep, and you're like, hey, I earn that shower, it feels good about it. Whereby if it's like I just kinda like got a shortcut, I've got a result, but it just you don't feel satisfied at the end. I had that like one of my photoshoots, I was like, I don't feel like I did what I could have done because it was just so easy. I was like, I'm not even gonna post that because I didn't earn it. I generally don't post it as well, as I'm not even gonna speak about it, it's just out and passed. But it's so funny because the that's the one thing I always find, like, because every time you go through that, you become a new person. Like, and then even every time you diet and you achieve a big change, I just feel like you become an entirely different person. Not every diet's the same, not every practice is the same. But that's one thing I'm gonna see, I'm kind of thinking now it's gonna start to be missed out on a lot with everything coming into place. And with Pepti as I'm always I love to dive into it, but I just think like I love to say your thoughts, but I think it just helps healthy people become healthier, generally speaking, as opposed to everybody use it because it's an easy way. What's your thoughts?

SPEAKER_01 19:09

Yeah, I would say if you have a good base, like if you have all the habits down, like all the healthy habits, like you're doing everything and you just want to take it to the next level, like okay, whatever. For me personally, I've taken like BPC 157 just for my knees because I've had four knee surgeries now, and I feel like I have eight-year-old knees. So I'm like, when I'm taking that, um, it they just feel so great. And I'm like, I wish I would have had these when I was competing and I was actually like recovering from these injuries because that would have made like a world of difference um coming back from an injury, but unfortunately, like I would get drug tested all the time, and you can't take that. So um that sucked. But the second I retired, I'm like, you know what? I've been in a pain long enough. Psych.

SPEAKER_00 19:51

I think it does help a lot. And funny you said about BPC because it reminds me of a story of a friend of mine. He he wasn't training for a run, but he actually ran a I think it was a half marathon without any training, and he's he's huge, he's like he was 105 kilograms, and bearing in mind he doesn't run, he just ran for like half a marathon. And then he broke his foot halfway through, and he was like, Screw it, I was gonna see how fast he can recover this, but it was actually broken. So he just drugs himself up with like vials and vials of BPC every single day. His foot was black at the end of it, like genuinely. And his coach was like, he was like, bro, this is way too much. It's like, trust me, it's gonna work. And then seven days later he was in red light therapy. Um he's just injecting himself all these peptides and vials of it. Like BPC, I think, is like crazy amount. And he sent me a picture of his feet. I was like, bro, that's not your foot. He's like, yeah, it's I was like, it's it's literally changing tie colour. But then seven days later, it's like, oh, it's fully recovered. But like seven days after a broken foot to back to normal, it's wild. Because um it do has a lot, it does have a lot of poetry, and people obviously there's a moral conversation about injecting and the whole thing, but I think it's actually made I think it's kind of like uh my thoughts is that people big farmer probably hate it. They're like, ah, people are gonna find it easier and there's gonna be like a lot less business on it. Um, but I think in the next 18 months it's gonna be a big transition, to be fair. Where do you see the fitness industry going?

SPEAKER_01 21:09

Oh gosh, I don't know. I I try to stay out of like the fitness industry and the trends. I'm like, I'm just all about the basics. I've been in the in the fitness industry for what, like 20 years now? Gosh, that's a long time. Yeah, like 20 years. I've seen like things come and go, keto, whole 30, Zumba, like everything like that's a fad comes, goes, and I'm like, let's just stick to the basics. I'm like, we should know by now to not be like duped or fooled. There's no magic pill, there's no magic anything, there's always a catch, there's always something. Um, I think the closest magic pill there is out there is probably like a GLP one for people who have been like looking for it. But I think there's gonna be some sort of like drawback within the next couple years that people like are just destroying their health or something like that, where we don't really fully know yet. Um, but yeah, I just think like basics and I just don't know where the fitness industry is gonna go. I think it'll just keep getting like weirder and weirder and just like another diet, another diet's gonna pile on. It's typical patterns.

SPEAKER_00 22:13

Like I think Google released a AI personalized fitness code for like $9.99 a month, and that kind of destroyed WAP, for example, entirely and the stocks. And I think that happened over the last 48 hours, and I was like, that's interesting. Just kind of seeing where it's going and how the access is kind of there too. But at the end of the bit, I think it's gonna be a stance where it's just gonna keep growing and growing, which is a big thing too. Like, um it's funny you said that about people we're not obviously sure the long-term effects of peptides and certain things, but like there's probably an amput aspect because I know women that are women that are let's say right to get pregnant, they're trying to take certain things. It's probably gonna be a lot of effects online, like fertility and certain things where it affects the long term, but we don't know until that happens, that's the biggest thing. So it's kind of like you're stepping into the unknown, but it's you know, it's a net positive, but there's a lot of unknown regardless. So it's um I'm always there to go into it as well as say people's opinions because it's uh it's kind of growing as well. I think it's probably one of the fastest things in the industry that's growing. Like the last 12 months, let's say, or the last six months, if not shorter than that, is just taking off in terms of like overall what's happening. Same with AI nowadays as well, which is quite a fun thing as well. Um, what's your thoughts on the AI revolution? Out of curiosity, because like it's very much you almost don't need to learn because you can use AI. Yeah. Like, what's the need? What's your thoughts on it?

SPEAKER_01 23:28

Yeah, I know, I don't love it. I think it's so helpful for me in my business. I'm like, great, I'll I'll write it, I'll still write my captions and stuff, but I'll be like, okay, fix it a little bit or like write it a little bit better. Um, just because I feel weird if I'm not writing my own stuff and put just posting it. And it's I feel like it's so obvious once you like if you realize like people are using it, you're like, oh, that's that was great.

SPEAKER_00 23:50

But yeah, yeah, you can tell.

SPEAKER_01 23:52

So it's like I still want my personality and my spin to be in it, but I I think it's such a helpful tool. I think it's great. Um, but I I know a lot of people are like nervous that it's gonna just completely replace a lot of jobs and personal trainers. But I think the big reason why people hire personal trainers is the accountability anyway. They already know what to do, they already know they should eat healthy, eat less, move more, stuff like that, work out, lift weights, but they're just not doing it. And do you think having a computer hold you accountable versus like an actual human is gonna be better? I don't I think the human is always gonna be that. Yeah. Um, so I'm not super worried about that. I do think it's a helpful tool. I think if it's your only business strategy, you need to use your brain a little bit more. But yeah, that's a big one. Other than that, like I think there's pros and cons, you know.

SPEAKER_00 24:38

I think it's funny because I was uh there's a little funny thing that you try ice coach quite hilarious, but like if you punch attribute saying, Hey, I'm thinking of taking my car to the car wash, uh, should I walk or should I drive? Uh, if walking is seven minutes, driving is 15, I'll say, Oh just walk. It's like the same car then. It's like it's it's a while. So like I think it is almost these things that people don't, AI won't be able to pick up on, or even like a I think you, I think was it it might have been you made the video, but it's like let's say you're drawing a set and then some you ask AI, uh you say to AI, hey, it's too heavy, you need to go light it, I'll tell you to go lighter, or our trainer may push you. So I think it's just gonna help people like get to a good place by themselves, but then after that, it's like there's just gonna be a lot of mediocrity because it's there's a peak on it. Like even let's say MMA, but there's no chance you would have taken to that league without having coaches and people that mentor you. It's too tired, and that's gonna be where it kind of goes as well. It's like you know, there's gonna be a net improvement, but then there's gonna be like a the average is gonna get higher, but it's not gonna exceed a certain threshold, too, to be fair. Um, how's your training evolved? Um may I know you went, did you because I love to dive into it because I don't think I actually know much about the actual journey and evolution in terms of your fitness industry, uh fitness journey, but how does it evolve all the time, like the focuses? Um where is it currently right now and where are you leaning towards? Like where's your training getting from there?

SPEAKER_01 25:59

So when I first started um like shadowing personal trainers way back in like high school, um I did only group fitness classes and I would just see all the lifting there, I do other cardio classes, whatever. I love them. And then um I would teach classes, like my first year of like college. Um and I thought they were great. And then I downloaded Jamie Eason's uh lifting program off of bodybuilding.com like years ago. And I printed it out. There was no apps, I didn't even have a smartphone, and I went and I looked at what I needed to do, and I would go and do it, and I would mark it off with a pencil, and I would just have like a pen and paper in the gym doing that. Um, and then that's kind of like what got me into lifting. And then, of course, I started MMA, and so then I did lifting for kind of like my strength, and then I did MMA for obviously like performance and to learn new skills, and then um I like I would say my nutrition has been like the biggest um thing that has evolved. So I was just like I would eat healthy foods, like I would eat stuff that I thought was healthy, like um granola or trail mix or stuff like that that was just like loaded with calories and I had no and then I would like dent Oreos and peanut butter, thinking the peanut butter was healthy. And I was just gaining weight my first year of college. Um, and I was like, what am I doing? I've been like working out so much. I'm eating healthy, nothing's changing. This is weird, I'm gaining weight. Um, and then once I started learning about like calories, calorie intake and protein, tracking that, my body started changing and it became more like muscular and not see. I can almost like look at a picture and be like, oh, I was eating this and working out this way. I was just like eating healthy and doing cardio group fitness classes, and I could totally like tell that. And versus like when I'm actually like training training, doing progressive overload, focusing on protein. Um, and it was just like pretty interesting to see the evolution. Uh I like learned new things and I'm like, oh, this is good, this is good, this is good, and then just kept stacking from there.

SPEAKER_00 28:04

Yeah. Have you heard of the uh donning Krieger effects?

SPEAKER_01 28:08

Say that again.

SPEAKER_00 28:10

Don't increase. Have you heard of that? It's like um in a nutshell, is the more you know, the more you don't know.

SPEAKER_01 28:18

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 28:19

It's like um, so it's it's like a uh graph, but it's actually really interesting because I always think about this quite a lot when it comes to learning set of things, whether it's AI, business, fitness, but it's like uh on the y-axis, there's um confidence, and then on the x-axis is knowledge. So initially, like it kind of starts at the top, you gain a little bit of confidence in your you gain a little bit of knowledge and your confidence goes straight to the top, you're like, I know everything. Then the more you know, you're like shit, there's way less I knew that, and it kind of goes lower and lower. Then at the end you know so much, but you feel stupid. It's uh I think that's kind of like a I feel like that's how fitness kind of matures or like gets to as well. Like the Duncan's a good way to explain it. It's like you learn a little bit, your confidence goes straight to the top. It's the whole classic of like, hey, I know what you need to do, but I don't, you know, I need to do it, and I'm not seeing results from it, but I know what I need to do. And then you realize you can't your ex knowledge is low but confidence is high, and then you learn more, it goes lower and lower and lower. And then eventually you know so much, but your confidence is super low. It's funny to see that, to be fair. It's like I just I've learned so much, but I feel like I'm a beginner, and that's a nice place to be as well, to be fair.

SPEAKER_01 29:20

So yeah, no, I feel like that in jujitsu. I feel like I know so much, but then also I'll roll with somebody and I'm like I've never sparse is like the best thing for it. Yeah, no, and with nutrition, I think it's been so crazy to watch it evolve over the years. Like just the egg alone. It's like, okay, the egg is healthy. No, now the egg is not healthy. No, just the egg white is healthy. No, now just the egg yolk is healthy. Now the entire egg is healthy again. And I'm like, I just show it, like nobody knows.

unknown 29:49

100%.

SPEAKER_00 29:49

100%. There's new research all the time. It's wild.

SPEAKER_01 29:52

What's trending? Yeah. 100%.

SPEAKER_00 29:54

It's uh it's kind of funny you can't see the evolution. I think the fitness industry and like the nutritionist, especially, is kind of fast tracking now a lot, to be fair. Because now I think it's gone more towards wellness, whereby I think there was an era where it was like transformation and aesthetics only, now it's gone more towards wellness, and then back to aesthetics and vice versa. But it's uh it's funny to see where it's going as well, to be fair. Just to one thing I like to do towards the end of the podcast, I'd like to kind of put you in the spot and do rapid fire questions. It's like first thing that comes to mind, just answer it right away and then finish off with a quick like one word or like one sentence? Just as long as it needs to be. I'm I'm kind of like gonna put you in a spot here, so I kind of like to think of it as like don't listen to the second voice, the first answer that comes up. Like whatever can choose to your mind is the best way.

SPEAKER_01 30:32

I I kind of need a filter though, because it's one of the go straight in.

SPEAKER_00 30:37

It's um ready?

SPEAKER_01 30:38

Yeah, let's go.

SPEAKER_00 30:40

Uh what's one habit that changed your body more than any training program?

SPEAKER_01 30:44

I would say getting enough sleep. Like it. Gosh, I can't think of a good one right now. Um I guess carbs thinking that's the biggest one.

SPEAKER_00 31:10

I like it. What's the best advice you ever received from a coach?

SPEAKER_01 31:14

Believe in yourself.

SPEAKER_00 31:15

I like that. I like that. Uh if you had to I actually like that a lot, by the way. It's um if you had to like give someone one instruction and just one to get their body back, what would that be?

SPEAKER_01 31:28

Track of calories.

SPEAKER_00 31:30

I like it, I like it. Um, you've had your hand broken and four knees injuries. Uh, what if physical pain teacher?

SPEAKER_01 31:42

Resilience.

SPEAKER_00 31:43

I like it. And then finally, what does a version of yourself 10 years from now look like? And do you feel like you're on track to meet her?

SPEAKER_01 31:49

Oh gosh. The version for myself 10 years from now is not on social media. It's chilling, it's a low lifestyle, out of the limelight, just hanging out behind the scenes, but I'm set.

SPEAKER_00 32:03

I like it. I like it. Do you feel like you're on track for that?

SPEAKER_01 32:07

Um I don't we'll see. Maybe in 10 years. Maybe in 10 years, yeah. I can I can see that to be for that. Right now, no, not even close.

SPEAKER_00 32:15

I can see that to be fair. That's uh I can see that's kind of where it's going. It's pretty good though, to be fair. The uh last question I like to ask is um, and I like to ask this because I feel like it kind of reveals a lot, taking time thinking about it too. But like if a version of you uh from before MMA, uh before coaching, before all of it, was sitting here right now, what would you be surprised to know? Uh would they what would they be surprised to know that about you in terms of where you ended up?

SPEAKER_01 32:41

Literally everything. Uh there's lit there's no way you would have told me when I was a cheerleader that I'm gonna be a professional MMA fighter that I would have ever believed you. There's I I would have believed that I would have been a successful personal trainer. I didn't think I would be making money doing it because I was always told personal trainers don't make money. Um, so I think just also I guess it's like 34 not married too. So 34 not married, personal trainer that is actually like making money, and then um a professional cage fighter, all those things would be like, huh? Are you sure this is me?

SPEAKER_00 33:16

That's blessed that's that's kind of like shit. That's where it started, and that's where you got Evanov. That's brilliant. Alright, so it's been a blast to have you on. Honestly, it's kind of like the kind of conversation I like to have because it's we've got a lot of cliffhangles, and I know your experience is real and rares in the trenches as well. So it's kind of good to hear from someone that's actually a practitioner rather than a theorist. So I'm gonna say big thank you for jumping on and it's been a blast. Um where would be best for people to find you? It's your time to just plug and go to time with it.

SPEAKER_01 33:43

It's Caitlin Katniss MMA on Instagram, Facebook, and TikTok. I'm most active on Instagram. If you type in Katniss, like Katniss from The Hunger Games, I should be one of the first people to pop up.

SPEAKER_00 33:53

Is that where it is prompt? I was thinking that.

unknown 33:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 33:56

Interesting. It's plays the arrow as well. It's plains the borrowed arrow.

SPEAKER_02 34:00

It's like Yeah, really.

SPEAKER_00 34:03

Ah, I like it. I like it. I've never put two or two together. Um it's been a blasting. Thanks for jumping on. It's been amazing.