The 40+ Life
A place for conversations with women over 40. From careers, health, relationships and lifestyle to personal style this is The 40+ Life!
The 40+ Life
Francesca Moore - Nutrition for the 40+ woman
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Welcome to The 40 Plus Life — the podcast for women navigating midlife with energy, clarity, and confidence.
In this episode, I’m joined by Francesca Moore, a highly experienced, BANT-registered nutritional therapist who specialises in supporting women through their 40s, 50s, and beyond. With a science-led yet refreshingly practical approach, Francesca cuts through the noise to focus on what truly works in real life.
We dive into the realities of midlife health — from hormonal shifts and gut health to nutrition, stress, and bone strength — and why the habits that once “worked” in our 20s and 30s suddenly stop delivering. Francesca shares her own personal journey, including the wake-up calls that led her to prioritise her health, and offers simple, powerful ways to start doing the same.
In this conversation, we explore:
- What’s really happening in your body during perimenopause and menopause
- Why gut health is the foundation of everything (including hormone balance)
- How to support energy, mood, and metabolism through nutrition
- The truth about protein, fibre, and blood sugar balance
- Small, realistic changes that can make a big impact — even in a busy life
- Why prioritising yourself isn’t selfish… it’s essential
This episode is packed with honest insights, expert guidance, and practical takeaways to help you feel stronger, more energised, and back in control of your body.
If you’ve ever felt overwhelmed by conflicting advice or struggled to put your own health first, this conversation will leave you feeling informed, empowered, and ready to take action.
✨ Because midlife isn’t the beginning of the end — it’s your opportunity to feel your best yet.
Find out more about Francesca Moore -
https://www.instagram.com/nutritionfrancesca/
https://www.nutritionfrancesca.co.uk/
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Find out more about TV Presenter Katy Pullinger https://www.instagram.com/katypullinger/
Welcome to the 40 Plus Life. I'm joined today by Francesca Moore, who is a highly experienced, band-registered nutritional therapist with a wealth of experience in supporting women through midlife and beyond. Francesca's passionate about helping women feel energized, strong, and confident in their bodies, especially during those hormonal shifts that come with our 40s, 50s, and beyond. From gut health to menopause, nutrition, and bone strength, she takes a practical, science-based approach that cuts through the noise and focuses on what really works in real life. Francesca, welcome to the podcast. Wow, that was an amazing intro. I've set you up now. Hello again. Thank you. Lovely to have you on. Well, I think nutrition is such an important subject at this time of life. And I think, you know, we were all bumbling along in our 20s and 30s, just grabbing whatever was on the go. And then suddenly we realize how important it is. So I think there's going to be a lot of women listening and potentially men that really wanting to hear a little bit about how we can get the best for our bodies. Absolutely. You're you're absolutely right.
SPEAKER_01We can get away with murder in our 20s and 30s, and then all of a sudden it just catches up with us. The wheels come off. Oh God. Yeah, at the end of the 40s, everything starts slowing down, spreading out.
SPEAKER_00It really does. So you're a nutritional therapist. Tell me a little bit about how that came about. What made you so passionate about nutrition?
SPEAKER_01So even from a really young age, like my nan was mega into healthy eating. She used to read books by Leslie Kenton, which probably nobody knows who that is anymore. But super healthy way of eating. So she used to eat Brazil nuts and sardines until they were going out of fashion. And yeah, we just really ignored it at that time. But my mum, obviously, it rubbed off with my mum. My mum used to send me to school with the usual maybe yogurt and sandwich, but I would have nuts and seeds and carob nibs instead of a chocolate bar and a package of crisp. I mean, I still went to the tuck chop and bought back to the Christina Mars bar. But, you know, there was little bits being filtered in at an early age. Anyway, I went off to uni, drank my weight in boom, obviously, as we all did, and you know, just trundled along really. And then in my early 30s, late 20s and 30s, I started to experience gut issues. I had IBS, I had endometriosis, and went to my DP. They really shouldn't do much about it at that point and were quite dismissive. And I thought, one, they didn't give me any answers. And I was like, I kind of want to know what's going on in my body. Why, why am I getting these symptoms? What's going on? I think they offered me the pill, and I thought, well, I don't want to go on the pill. I'd actually come off the pill. I'd already been on the pill for 10 years and had children. And no, did not want to go back on the pill. And then so I investigated nutrition. And I went to a talk at the Institute for Optimal Nutrition, and it just blew my mind. And it was like, oh my God, why are we not teaching this in school? Why are we not taught about how our body actually works, how food impacts systems as a body. So anyway, that blew my mind. And I signed up for the course, and I took six years actually to qualify as a nutrition therapist, and which was a good thing because in that time, the course I was studying, which was a foundation science degree and diploma, started to teach functional medicine, the functional medicine model, which is what most nutritionists today will follow. Right. What that means is that we're basically trying to identify and address the root cause of chronic disease or a symptom or you know something that doesn't quite feel right in the body. The whole premise is to dig deep and find out what has triggered that, what's the root cause of the problem, how then can we go about addressing that root cause so the body can restore balance and be healthy for the long term. So it's it's not a plaster approach. It takes a bit of a journey in a lot of cases. It's not always a quick fix, but it really is getting to the problem and dealing with that.
SPEAKER_00It's interesting that you said sticking plaster. I was going to say the same thing because I think I don't maybe this is unfair to say, but I think maybe my parents' generation, they tend to use a lot of sticking plasters, and it's like, oh, let's just, you know, I'll just take this pill and treat that symptom, but you're not treating the cause potentially. Right. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. And we we don't get taught that at school, neither do they. You know, we get taught about the basic food groups and you need some vitamins, and we get we all know about five a day, but do we actually really understand about what we need in that five a day and what the different colours are going to represent, what the different vegetables are going to do for our gut. So I'm hoping you're going to enlighten us all this.
SPEAKER_01All of those guidelines are about adequacy, they're not about optimal nourishment. Yeah. But, you know, the guidelines that we were all brought up on, they're not there to encourage optimal health by any means. And the science has moved on so much that the stuff that they still teach in schools is probably outdated. Which is why when you study nutritional therapy and you're aware of the latest science and you know, cutting-edge research, it is fascinating. And when you start to understand how food impacts the body, or it might be stress or movement, whatever that is, it's like wow, you then feel really empowered. Yeah. And it you then can make a choice, an informed choice about what you're putting into your body. And actually, very quickly, I mean, you can make small changes and very quickly you can start to reap the rewards of that. Sometimes it really doesn't take long to manipulate and modulate things that are going on in the body just through simple changes to diet. So that's and that is really profound and it's really exciting, and it makes food people superpower because they have the control over that.
SPEAKER_00Well, we are gonna do a deep dive into all of this peramenopause in our age group of those changes that we can make at this time in our life. But I want to go back to, I know you're in your 50s. Tell me how was life going in in your 40s? And how did you bring nutrition into that age category? Or did you?
SPEAKER_01Well, it's really interesting because obviously I did nutritional therapy, first of all, my business, been practicing for 15 years, and then in my 40s, I was pretty healthy food-wise. I was probably a bit undernourished, and that is because life was just a roller coaster. Like I had two young children, I was running my own business, my husband worked away. Life was hectic. I can speak for a lot of women. A lot of women are juggling it all, and they are master facilitators looking after their husbands, their families, maybe their parents, just really great at organizing and facilitating everybody else's lives.
SPEAKER_00Making sure the kids have got their balanced meals and getting their downtime and rest. And you need an early night, and you need to have a car, you need to wish there.
SPEAKER_01And all of that care that they put into their families, yeah, they really often just don't prioritize their own health. And I that was true, certainly true for me in my 40s. So juggling it all, very stressed, overwhelmed. And then I started having really severe heart palpitations that would absolutely flaw me. Wow. That was a real wake-up call for me. And I went and got checked out and was medically assessed. And I I paid to see a top cardiologist because I thought, oh my God, am I having a heart attack? You know, it's really scary. And he said, Oh, have you tried yoga? And I thought, oh my god, are you kidding? Yes, I actually do do yoga. For instance, it's like it, you know, it's like a stress response. It was my border's way of saying, Okay, if you're not gonna slow down and look after yourself yourself, yeah, I am going to make you stop. So it would absolutely flaw me. And I would be, after an episode of heart palpitations, I would be absolutely flawed and really exhausted for the rest of that day. But you know, it used to happen, and I would like wait for it to pass and I'd be lying on the floor in the kitchen, like the kids wouldn't mean I'd be like, I can breathe, it's gonna go in a minute, it's gonna go in a minute, and then it would just be like the kids are like, my where's my iPad, Mum?
SPEAKER_00And you're on the floor in a ball crying.
SPEAKER_01And then it would pass, and then I would just get up and go, Christ will meet the dinner, you know. Because you quite often you don't have a choice, do you? You have to, I think that's the state of women's lives now, is they just keep going. Yeah, but as a result of that, and as a result of not maybe nourishing their bodies and fueling their bodies in the right way, or winding down your de-stressing in the right way, they then start to experience symptoms in their 40s associated with perimenopause and menopause because there's massive hormonal shifts going on. Yeah, but that lack of relaxation or de-stressing and lack of nourishment will then contribute to the worsening of their symptoms or the loudness of the symptoms that they experience in that time.
SPEAKER_00So obviously, there's that crossover with palpitations with perimenopause, but yours was stress-related, wasn't it? But obviously, you must have been meeting it.
SPEAKER_01But it was likely also due to hormonal shifts as well. So I think there's never one thing going on. It's usually, you know, you can take the analogy of a bathtub, and our bodies are a bit like that. You've got the water running, and oh, it's all fine, and you're able to cope, and then it gets to the brim, and then only takes one drop of something extra, and everything starts overflowing. Yeah. And I think sometimes it's a little bit like that. So I'm sure it was there was some hormonal aspect of it, but the undercurrent was the overwhelm and the stress. Oh god. And I know that what I should be eating and how I should be eating, but things don't always go to plan. And certainly in my 40s, that's okay. So later on in my 40s, I hit a wall. I was I lost all joy in life. I was lost all motivation in my job, wow, in my work, in my family. I didn't want to go out or socialise. And when that shortened, I thought, whoa, what something's really wrong. Yeah. I did just wrap it up.
SPEAKER_00Did anyone else around you say what's what something's up here? No, because I did it completely.
SPEAKER_01So I when I was out, I would be happy for an hey, but behind the scenes, I would be exhausted and numbed out completely. So I actually went on HRT for a little while. I went on HRT, I was about 49, and it did make all the difference. Yeah. It was life-changing, but then there were some complications and I had some bleeding. And because of my age, I, you know, I wasn't post-menopause, I was still pre-menopause. Right. So anyway, I was investigated, everything was absolutely fine. But I thought, you know what? I don't want to be on HRT anymore. I came off it. And at that point, so now I'm 51. I'm not 51 now, but at this point, I was 51. Yeah. I really started to look after myself. My kids were a bit older, and I prioritized myself. And so I can honestly say now that I have not felt better, probably since my late 30s.
SPEAKER_00Oh gosh, that's what I want to hear. Because I'm I feel like I'm in that zone that you've been talking about, that 40s just overwhelm juggle of, and it's that sandwich generation where you know you're maybe there's issues with your parents that they might need support, and your kids need support. My hormones are all over the place, and life is just in insane. The amount of things that are on the in the diary, and thinking about have I eaten a balanced diet today is literally the last thing on my list. Absolutely. Have I even had a piece of fruit? No, I've just had a bagel and that's it.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. And it really is not a priority for a lot of women, but it has to be. And they and like you prioritize what you're feeding your children, you need to prioritize what you're feeding yourself. Because the earlier you start to do that, the better menopause experience you'll get.
SPEAKER_00Right. Let's get into it then in terms of nutrition. So, where where should we start? Because I know that we we we need to cover gut and menopause support and bones and supplements, and do we even need supplements? I mean gosh, Fran, where it it does feel like that's overwhelming in the first place. So can you can you simplify it for us?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, there is a lot, but I think it is it can be simplified massively. I think maybe the first thing to understand is what the hell's going on in the body, because this is another thing we're not really taught about at school. Yeah. But really briefly, as we transition through perimenopause, uh the relationship between estrogen and progesterone changes. So they work in a cyclical fashion throughout the month. That's why we have our monthly cycle. But when we hit perimenopause, the little Mary dance between those hormones and testosterone to a degree, but we let's not worry about that right now. But it starts to stop listening to the music and they start doing their own thing. Okay. As a result of that, that's when women start to experience symptoms. And they can be really mild. It might be headaches, it might be fatigue, it might be getting a bit of flesh around the tummy, joint pain, insomnia. Those symptoms might be there sometimes, they might then go away. And this is usually what women are dealing with. And that because they're not persistent all of the time, they tend to put up with them and they tend to think, Oh, I'm feeling like this. And then the next day they'll wake up and think, Oh, no, I'm fine. Yeah. So it's kind of a bit of a weird time. And as a result of that, we then don't really, because it's not shouting, we don't give it that focus.
SPEAKER_00Or don't join the dots. I mean, I uh my symptoms actually, when I look back now, I know started in late 30s, and I had my my um cycle had gone out of whack, and I was either having them every two weeks or I was having them every couple of months, which felt really early, you know, in in relation to what my friends were going through. And then out of the blue, I had an appendicitis, and I was in hospital with that and uh yeah, thrilled about getting a few days just to rest and relax. And after I know, right?
SPEAKER_01Pleased with a hospital trick. I remember when the kids were really young, dreaming that something would abduct me.
SPEAKER_00It's like maybe if I just slipped down the stairs. I mean, it's all like awful the things that actually go through your head. I shouldn't laugh, but I'm sure we're not alone in thinking this. But weirdly, after the appendicitis, my cycle went back to normal. And I was thinking, I mean, those body parts aren't connected in any way, but you know, maybe something's happened and it's kick-started everything back again and it all went away. And I was like, okay, we're back on track. But like you say, it I didn't then connect that to anything else. I didn't even really think about peramenopause. I didn't really, I don't think I was educated yet in it. I didn't think enough people were talking about it yet. So it wasn't until maybe four years later that then it was a layer of other things that were like, oh, okay, I'm falling asleep at five o'clock. Oh, I um I'm trying to remember everything now. Gosh, and that's the other thing. You forget everything, don't you? And my hair was suddenly falling out. I mean, there was so suddenly it was all the dots started to join.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. It's never simple, it's never a simple one thing going on. Because what we have to remember is also that estrogen is like the conductor of the orchestra. She runs the show. So we have estrogen receptors in every single organ of the body. Wow. So that's why when she starts like misbehaving a little bit, you feel it in lots of different places. But I think what's key is understanding how we can actually support hormonal health. How can we support balanced hormones? How can we support um hormonal clearance via the liver and the gut? And when you start to understand once our hormones have been used in the body, that they then get cleared via the liver and then escorted out of the body via the bowel, you know, if those systems of the body are under pressure or you're constipated, then all of a sudden you have an issue and a reason as to why you might have too much estrogen circulating in the body in relation to progesterone. Yeah. So, and if you can work on things like that, if you can get the bowel moving once or twice a day, you start to improve your estrogen balance. You know, it's little things like that. That's, you know, just one example of what might be going on for some women. So in the period of the you know, late 30s, in the 40s, you know, people can often be estrogen dominant, even though estrogen might be starting to decline, because progesterone is low. So they're estrogen dominant in relation to progesterone. And we get rid of estrogen, we detoxify and deal with estrogen via the gut. So it as I've just explained, once the liver has done its kind of detox job on estrogen, it gets parceled up into these gorgeous little bundles burned on top, and then the liver escorts that estrogen parcel back to the gut where it's escorted out of the body via the poo. Okay. But if it hits the gut and the gut is out of balance, so if the microbiome is out of balance, there are microbes in the gut that can cause these parcels of estrogen to become unpacked and then allow that estrogen to be recirculated in the body.
SPEAKER_00Okay.
SPEAKER_01So we don't want that happening. So that's why when people come to me and I see women in clinic and they're interested in how they can support healthy menopause, there are key pillars that we look at. Gut health is number one because we need to make sure that the state of the gut is encouraging healthy hormone balance and allowing for good clearance of hormones out of the body.
SPEAKER_00So, how do we get our gut to its sort of optimum healthiness? So, gut health, I love.
SPEAKER_01I'm uh it's one of my passionate Christianity. Gut health, I mean, there's so much research around gut health now. It's all in the media, you know. Everyone, if you haven't heard of the microbiome, you must have been living under a rock. But to explain very briefly, the microbiome is the trillions of bacteria fungi and yeast that reside in the gastrointestinal tract. Yeah. And they form this beautiful ecosystem that really is there to look after our health. So the microbiome helps us digest our food, is 80% of our immune system, supports detoxification, helps with stress resilience, hormone balance. Basically, also, depending on what you're eating and how you're feeding your gut microbiome, they dictate the nutrients that you get from the food that you eat. Oh, okay. For example, you could eat a spinach leaf, and we can eat the same spinach leaf, but depending on the state of our microbes, we'll determine what phytonutrients, what compounds get produced, and therefore what impact that has on the body. Oh, which is insane. So I'm really interested.
SPEAKER_00You could be having that green smoothie every day, but if you haven't got your gut in check, it might not take the best of that green smoothie. Is that what you mean? Yeah, pretty much.
SPEAKER_01And you know, the research is clear. There are people with a diverse and robust microbiome. So, what I mean by that is those people with a lot of different types of bacteria, lots of different bacterial strains in the duct, those people have good health outcomes and good longevity. So a diverse microbiome correlates with good health and low disease rate versus those that have a a less diverse microbiome that correlates with ill health and chronic disease. So that's really important for people to understand that. Yeah. And it's important that people understand that the job of the microbiome, their job is to keep us healthy. They are they are running the show, they have got their fingers in all the pies. So we need to make sure that we're nurturing and loving our microbes.
SPEAKER_00So how do we nurture it then? Because I know obviously there's uh we can take supplements for it, or we can get it from food and fermented foods as as well. So what what's your preference? Do you have one?
SPEAKER_01So there, yeah, absolutely. There are things that can disrupt it first. So things like processed foods, artificial sweetness, alcohol, stress. All the things that I expect we're all going, oh great, my my gut's wrecked. Antibiotics, some medications, not exposed to nature, all of that can have a disruptive or negative effect on the microbiome. And things that feed and nurture a robust and diverse microbiome are plants, so fibre, and a diverse and abundance of plants. So think colours of the rainbow, all of the different colours of the fruits and vegetables have different phytochemicals and phytonutrient compounds in them. Who are the big hitters? Who are the best ones for that? It's diversity. Okay. So the more diverse the diet that you eat is, the more diverse your microbiome is going to be. And the more diverse your microbiome is, the healthier you're going to be, basically.
SPEAKER_00And then we've got the choice of say kefir and kimchi. And things like that. Are they good to mix in or then?
SPEAKER_01So you've got your prebiotic, you've got plants, fruit, veg, nuts, seeds, pulses, and beans, really gorgeous. All of those lovely foods that are feeding the microbes. You've then got your fermented foods, which are also high in fibre. So they're also feeding the microbiome, but they're also live in themselves. So they act like a little bit like a probiotic, but they are better because they have way more strains than a probiotic in the form of a pill or in a bottle. But they are a fantastic way to support the microbiome. If you can tolerate some fermented foods daily, that would be brilliant. Okay.
SPEAKER_00I just bought some kimchi and I I tried to have just like a spoonful of it.
SPEAKER_01I was like, I'm not sure I can. You don't have to eat it and eat on its own. So um, like a salad or really good with eggs in the morning. Okay. So I would slip it in early, so you've ticked it off, and it doesn't need to be lows, just a forkful.
SPEAKER_00Okay. So you only need to have a spoonful of something like kimchi. You don't have to eat a lot of it. No, absolutely.
SPEAKER_01Okay. Not. And then there are supplements, obviously, like probiotics. I wouldn't opt for a probiotic drink like atomol or anything like that. Okay. There's a lot of sugar in those products. Probiotics are quite targeted in that they are used like in clinic, we will use probiotics very therapeutically, depending on what condition we're dealing with. Yeah. There are certain microbes that are really good for certain conditions. So if somebody's looking to just support the gut generally, you probably want a quite broad spectrum probiotic, but there's nothing that's going to replace the fibre that they need to thrive. So it's all about getting in lots of plants, lots of different colours, and that sort of thing.
SPEAKER_00I think it's also worth noting that you this is something that you also do for clients, don't you? You can give us a menu. Because I've done one of your nutrition weeks. I call them cleanses. A cleanse, yeah. Because yeah.
SPEAKER_01The reason I started the cleanses is because I obviously was seeing people in clinic and they would be and I would say, Oh, eat more protein, eat more fiber.
SPEAKER_00And they'd say, Oh, wait, wait, then just standing in the supermarket overwhelmed by a wall of protein, going, Well, how much? What do I choose? So your your step-by-step menus are really amazing to follow.
SPEAKER_01Thank you. Yeah. So I was just trying to make it easy for people. And a lot of the time, like we said, we're busy, and so we lack space, the time and space to actually think about putting, you know, a menu together, or even at the end of each day, most women are like, oh, what's for dinner? Yeah.
SPEAKER_00And something exciting and something different. I mean, I still give my the daughter asks for it as well, your Halloumi watermelon salad covered in the mixed nuts and seeds. And I was like, Oh my gosh, actually, I do like salads. I do like this. This is something that I would look forward to eating as well. So, you know, your your recipes are amazing. So I'll make sure you put your your links to your cleanses and your website.
SPEAKER_01Um, you know, as tasty and delicious as possible. That's the key, isn't it? You've got to enjoy it. You know, food is absolute joy in my mind.
SPEAKER_00It's got to be joyful and taste really good because otherwise, what's the point? Absolutely, absolutely. I feel like we could do an entire hour just talking about gut health, but I do want to talk about obviously supporting women through peramenopause and post-menopause. I want to say our completed menopause is the right term. So, you know, we know that things change, like we know we need to be supporting our bones more at this age as well. So, how are we going to then we've you know got gut ticked off? We now need to think about bone density as well.
SPEAKER_01So, yeah, so let's think let's the key pillars then, gut health, we tick that off. That's where everything happens, it's how we absorb our nutrients. So critically important because if we're not absorbing nutrients, then all other systems of the body start to suffer, including bones, because for example, we won't be absorbing calcium and other nutrients required for bone health. So we've talked about gut. There's also metabolic health, so blood sugar balance. And I think that's another thing that's really talked about a lot in the media right now, but that's also important for controlling inflammation in the body. And it's inflammation that is the main driver of like chronic disease or menopausal symptoms, so hot flushes. So we want to try and control that inflammatory response. That's done via making sure the gut's happy and healthy and controlling our blood sugar regulation. So we want to eat in a way that that supports that.
SPEAKER_00Is it also that the because I I I wake up in the morning and I feel like my my joints, my fingers are they feel swollen and tight and sore, even though they don't look it. Um is that is that inflammation? Yes. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Any pain in the body, that's an inflammatory response going on. So the glucose goddess has done a marvelous job of helping people understand how to eat to control blood sugar and to really keep that balance.
SPEAKER_00The experience of a food nutrition influencer. Do you not have you not heard of the glucose goddess? I haven't heard of the glucose. Do I need is she gonna change my life?
SPEAKER_01You well, you would have heard it somewhere else if you haven't heard it from her. Okay. Basically, she she talks about, you know, putting clothes on your carbs. So don't have a sweet treat as a snack on its own. Have your sweet treat as a pudding, as plant of a high protein, high fiber meal. Okay. And the reason for that is because if you eat something sweet on its own, it will rise blood sugar dramatically. In response to that, you will get a strong insulin response, and then blood sugar will drop dramatically. And you crash. And and you crash. And you will end up kind of being on that roller coaster for the end of the day, and then you'll feel really tired and irritable at the end of the day. Okay. Part way through the day. And the thing with insulin, which is the hormone that we produce in order to balance blood sugar, it is an anabolic hormone. And what that means is it's a fat storage hormone. So every time we've got insulin flying around the body, it communicates to the body to store fat. Right. And this is one of the things that women are struggling with in perimenopause and menopause, is that they can be just carrying on with their normal life as they were, and all of a sudden they start to experience weight gain and they think, why on earth is that happening? And it's usually because their blood sugar regulation is being affected by the dance of the hormones, their insulin is rising, and therefore they are laying down more fat as a result. So focusing in on maintaining good blood sugar balance is really helpful to help, you know, help the process basically. So don't eat refined carbohydrates on their own. Always eat them with some protein, fibre, and healthy fat. So a refined carbohydrate is bread, pasta, rice, sweets, cakes, biscuits, crisps, rivet, fizzy drinks, fruit juice, that sort of thing. Oh, my favorite thing. Which really are very unhelpful in perimenopause. Yeah. Um, and if they are forming a large part of your diet, then they can become a little bit problematic. But when you remove some of them and replace them with more complex carbohydrates like pulses and beans, for example, which are nature's gift because they are they're carbohydrate, but they're also high in fibre and they're also protein. So they release their sugars much more slowly into the body. They have got a load of micronutrients included, they've got fibre for the gut microbiome, and they've got protein for supporting muscle and other systems of protein. And they don't spike your insulin. No. So they are they're a great swap out. So I, you know, as you know, you've done a cleanse before. That a lot of what I do is take out refined carbohydrates and put in tulcs and beans and other sources of complex carbohydrates that are really kind on the system and don't upset blood sugar as much as a refined carbohydrate. There is a trade-off. You're taking out nutrient void foods and putting in very nutrient dense foods. And even just doing that, if you just did that, you're winning. Your blood sugar balance would be much better. Yeah. Does it mean we have to give them up forever? Or do can we just it's not about giving them up completely, it's about swapping them out where you can to get the benefit of that. Yeah. And then having your treat foods, your refined carbs occasionally so you don't feel deprived. It's not that this isn't about being fearful of those foods or giving them up completely. It's about understanding that there are better choices and that they're going to have a much kinder and beneficial impact on the body. You'll be much more energized, you won't possibly gain so much weight, you'll you'll be contributing to protein intake, which that's a massive topic again for women, especially in their 40s who who are busy, we generally don't eat enough protein. That is absolutely critical for looking after bones and muscles. Yeah. So I'll come back to that actually in a little bit because it's it's quite important. But yeah, so even that simple swap, women will notice quite a big difference in how they're feeling.
SPEAKER_00So if you were gonna go for a pasta dinner, maybe go for like a bean lentil kind of you can still have your protein, something chicken y or something like that in it, and with a tasty sauce, and it's gonna make you feel fuller for longer, and you're not gonna get that spike and crash and absolutely smart swaps that are gonna make they're gonna that are gonna pay off nutritionally rich, nutritionally dense, yeah, as opposed to just an energy-giving food, which is what a refined carb is fundamentally.
SPEAKER_01So, you know, that we what's we're actually touching on like some of the macronutrients, which I think, you know, when we've discussed things before, some I talk about macros, and people are like, Well, what do you mean we're talking about?
SPEAKER_00I know. Well, we were talking before we recorded here, and I was like, I know I know the word macros, but if you asked me in a quiz what exactly they are, I think I'd just give it a lot.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, you're people don't always know. So the macronutrients are carbohydrates, proteins, and fat. And they're called pronutrients because they're essential for life. So we we actually newly need them in the diet. Um, so we just touched on carbohydrates. So there are good, good in inverted commas options and nesket options, but carbohydrates, things that call in fall into the carbohydrate camp are all of the bread, pasta, biscuits, cake that we talked about, but also fruits, vegetables, pulses, beans, they are carbohydrates. So quite often people don't put fruit and veg in that carbohydrate camp. They are a carbohydrate food. Um, so you can see straight away that you've got two distinct choices in that camp: refined carbs, which release their sugars really quick and spiked blood sugar, or whole food carbs, which are wrapped in fibre and loads of lovely micronutrients that release their sugars way more slowly. So you have a choice, is it's like, and it's not all of one, all of nothing. Yeah, you know, sensible choices there more towards the whole food one, and you'll feel better.
SPEAKER_00So for so going back to pasta, just because I love my pasta, you could do the sort of the swap from the white pasta to a a whole grain, a whole grain pasta, the brown pasta basically, isn't it? Yes, or brown bread.
SPEAKER_01That's you you could go for a brown rice pasta, or you could go for lentil pasta or a quinoa pasta. Yeah. And it's really, you know, you've got three meals a day to look at. A lot of people will have cereal and toast for breakfast, refined carbs, yeah, ammage for lunch, refined carbs, pasta for dinner, yeah, refined carbs. So maybe you keep your refined carb lovely Italian pasta for your dinner, yum yum, but you swap out what you're having for your breakfast and lunch. Right. Something better. Yeah. But you still enjoy your lovely pasta dish.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. So choose when you want to really enjoy that meal. If you're going to go out for lunch with friends, maybe that can be your pasta meal at lunch. So just yeah, if you want to try and make it balance and work for your lifestyle, yes. Choose when, when and where you're going to really enjoy it. Exactly. Perfect. Okay. All right. I'm on board with that.
SPEAKER_01I still still have my pasta sometimes. Absolutely. Do not deprive yourself of the pasta and put a big fat bit of protein on that.
SPEAKER_00Okay. So talking of protein, so again, not everyone eats meat. So where are we going to be getting all this protein? And why is it so we keep hearing how important protein is for this 40 plus HP3?
SPEAKER_01I know the big words now are protein and fibre, aren't they? Yeah. So protein is people associate protein with muscle. And rightly so, but there's a lot more to it than that. But let's just talk about muscle for a minute because muscle really is a key indicator of longevity and it's a really helpful thing to focus on as we transition through the menopause. So muscle, you know, it keeps us strong, mobile, flexible, it holds our skeleton up. It also acts as a metabolic sink. And what I mean by that is that if we eat some carbs and move our muscles, we don't need insulin around. The muscle will just open its doors and suck in the glucose, the sugar, okay, and use it for energy. So it's a brilliant way to help balance blood sugar without spiking insulin. Another like little tip that the glucose goddess will okay. So basically, it's so muscles muscle's really key. And in order to grow muscle or maintain muscle mass, we need to ensure we're eating sufficient protein and carbohydrate. But that protein's really critical because uh we need the amino acids to build the muscle. Okay. Um protein is also used for loads of other things that are going on in the body. So the immune system is using it for repairing, the liver's using it for detoxification. Okay. Our neurotransmitters are made of protein, our hormones are made of protein. So protein is not just coming in and going to the muscle, it's being used throughout the whole body.
SPEAKER_00So it's actually supporting our hormones as well. Gosh, I didn't I didn't realize that. Okay.
SPEAKER_01Yes, it's supporting everything. So if we're not eating sufficient, then the body will break down muscle for protein use elsewhere.
SPEAKER_00Ah, okay. And then you get the muscle wastage, and then you're not supporting your bones. Yes. But um, but I'm dumb.
SPEAKER_01As we get older, obviously thing the systems of body are deteriorating because they're aging. So our repair systems are ramping up, so our protein needs are increasing. Okay. So that tends to be why we start to lose muscle as we get older. So it really we need to be very conscious of the amount of protein we're getting in. And the guidelines now for optimal intake are around 1.6 grams of protein per kilogram of body weight for a woman who is fairly active. So that's a lot. When you break that down, that would be equating to something like 80 to 100 grams of protein a day for a woman. So let's break that down per meal. You need to be getting 30 grams at breakfast, 30 grams at lunch, and 30 grams at dinner. That is a lot of protein to get in. Yeah. Most women are not getting anywhere near that.
SPEAKER_00What does it look like? What does 30 grams look like if it was, say, eggs, for example? Egg is about six grams. So two eggs is 12. So that's still not enough, even if I've had two eggs at breakfast.
SPEAKER_01Okay. Chicken breast is 25 to 30 grams, steak, 30 to 35 grams, portion of prawns, 25 to 30 grams, salmon fillet, 25 grams. So you need to be having ideally a chicken fillet or salmon fillet with lunch and dinner. Do you know what I mean? You consciously have to be aware and think about okay, where's my protein coming from?
SPEAKER_00It's a lot, isn't it? I mean, even just thinking like if I if I'd had a steak at lunchtime, I probably wouldn't even have much for dinner. Like I'd end up maybe just uh having something picky and not even thinking about it because I I I just get full, you know. I just it does feel like a lot of food, doesn't it, in one day, but it's so important.
SPEAKER_01It's an it feels like a lot of protein in one day, not necessarily a lot of food. And I think this is where a lot of women, you know, most not just women, but people, when we're planning a meal or we're thinking, okay, what am I having for lunch? Our first thought is is it a sandwich, is it pasta, is it right? You know, we think about quadrate first. And what I try to get women to do in clinic is here are the protein, here are the protein, then the plants, and the cards will naturally find their way onto the plate. So you don't really need to worry too much about them. They'll always appear somewhere, you know, whereas the protein tends to get left off. Okay. And that's when we hit perimenopause and menopause, things start to creep up. And we, you know, a lot of the cases in some cases it might be because there's protein, a lot of protein going in.
SPEAKER_00Oh, see, all I've had this morning is toast already. And I'm thinking, but my but my brain is thinking, right, tomorrow it's gonna be a it's gonna be a cottage, cheese, and egg omelette. And but that would be it, ticked off though, wouldn't it? That's and that's actually a really tasty way to start your day. That would really feel like a treaty.
SPEAKER_01And throw some, you know, red onion and peppers in, have the water press on the side. So breakfast is the most joyful meal of the day because it's a really good way to get some easy wins in. So whatever you're cooking, if it if it if it's including eggs, add a handful of greens. So rocket or waterpress. I love that, yeah. And then you've got fiber, loads of phytonutrients, magnesium, B vitamins, solate, you know, winning. That's it.
SPEAKER_00I mean, again, it's it's the smart choices, isn't it? And I think we, you know, it goes back to the what we're juggling in our life. I mean, this morning is getting two kids to school. You know, I was setting up to do this for for what, you know, if this is part of my work. And the thought of stopping in the middle of that and going, Hang on a second, I'm just whipping out for a nice rainbow omelet. My husband would look at me and just go, Really? Really? You're doing that for what? So, what did you have for breakfast then? Toast. I did have sourdough. Is that any better?
SPEAKER_01Well, it's okay, but it's still toast. But the thing is, the amount of time it took for you to toast the toast, you could have made the omelet. It doesn't take a lot of time.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_01That's where your mindset is like we we put up these blockers, I think, and say, oh, it's a faff, it's gonna take time. But actually, it doesn't take like an omelette, if it was just a plain omelette, would take under five minutes to cook.
SPEAKER_00And I guess if you've got those things ready to go, I mean, like you say, cracking a couple of eggs, it I'm making excuses, aren't I? Of the I wouldn't have had time for that. But having just that pot of cottage cheese or prepping, meal prepping. And I know obviously when you do one of your cleanses, there's a lot of meal prep to be done, which gets you sorted for the week, which is brilliant. Once you've done that, it's bam, bam, bam, bam, bam.
SPEAKER_01And you it takes away just the having to think about it every day as well. When you have carve out 15 minutes on a Sunday to think, okay, what are we eating this week? Even if it's not every meal, it's like this is what I'm having my breakfast and this is what we're having for dinner for night. You know, if that goes to plan, brilliant. And then the other days kind of fall into place. The other trick I love is when you're making dinner, is make enough for lunch the next day. So you're not reliant on a sandwich or something on toast.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. I was just thinking that if you're roasting a chicken on Sunday, roast two chickens and have the other chicken in the fridge ready to go, and then you can just take off that chicken breast, whack that in a you know, Tupperware with your salad and take that to work. It's planning ahead.
SPEAKER_01But once you get in a rhythm and once you do a little bit of planning, it does take the headache out of worrying. Are you getting enough protein or are you getting all of the phytonutrients that you need to support your gut microbiome and the anti-inflammatory response in the body? You know, the plant kingdom is heavily full of health-giving bioactives that we need and that will optimize our health and optimize our menopause journey. So we need to harness that power. And if we're not eating it in the diet, another thing I love to do is like use functional foods like medicinal mushroom powders or super greens powder or like seed and botanical mixes. These are things that you can just throw in a yogurt or you know, or make a smooth and just really, you know, quick hacks that are really good for you if you haven't got much time, then get some stuff in like that that you can use to supercharge your health.
SPEAKER_00Just get back to medicinal mushrooms because we are hearing uh a lot more about mushrooms. I see a lot more adverts, you know, pushed at me on socials, but I'm never really sure. Do you know do I really need it? Is it is this another gimmick?
SPEAKER_01No, I don't think it is a gimmick at all. There's a lot of research into the power of medicinal mushrooms, and there are companies like Kifaster Terra, I love, who work with oncology teams and doing lots of work in the field of randomized controlled trials showing how medicinal mushrooms, how powerful they are in terms of supporting the body, firstly through modulating the microbiome, and then secondly, modulating immune function and other pathways in the body. So you have things like rich that are good for anxiety or sleep, and then turkey tail for immune function, lion's mane for focus and energy. You know, that's they've all got different properties and medicinal qualities, and I love them. I think they're fantastic and they're well researched. So that's a functional food that I would use. I wouldn't go for a gummy, I would go for a powder or something like that.
SPEAKER_00Gosh, I know we could talk about food forever, but we know that we've got to balance, it's not just about food, it's about our movement. You touched on stress earlier as well, from your experience and how we need to find that time to relax. How do you how do you personally move and relax, Fran?
SPEAKER_01I wish that when I was younger, somebody had sat me down and said if you want to live a long, healthy life and you want to have a lovely, easy menopause transition, these are the things that you need to do. Nourish your Your body, move your body and relax. Sounds simple, but we don't all find the time. We don't. And the thing is, like when you start to adopt some of these pillars of health, I guess you could call them. The transformation in how you feel is unbelievable. And quite quick. And I've started following this woman on Instagram. She's 80, right? She started working out in her 70s. She's transformed her body and her energy and cognitive function, her memory. I mean, she's like And it's not too late.
SPEAKER_00And she's done that in late life.
SPEAKER_01She's not too late. She's amazing. And I look at her and I think, wow, you are such an inspiration. So talking about movement, that is another key aspect. And again, women, you know, we're so busy, you've got every great intention to get to the gym or the Pilates session, and then you get a call from school or something else will pop up, and it's like, okay, well, I went into that then.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. And it's always your thing, usually, or that that gets put on the backbone banner. Absolutely, absolutely.
SPEAKER_01But again, it's about prioritizing that and making the time, you know, even if it means getting up half an hour earlier, doing it at home. There's so much online now that is brilliant. So I've really got into exercise. I it doesn't come naturally to me. I am very resistant and have been, but I really appreciate the importance. You know, I would say I'm quite good at the food. My muscle math is poor because I have not exercised my whole life. Um, so I'm really working on that. And it's not easy. So you do muscle like weight training. Yeah. And then from a stress perspective, it comes down to saying no and just carving time out for yourself. I love to go to bed and read instead of watching TV. Um, but really crossing out time in the diary that where I might have half an hour or an hour where it's just for me. And actually, that is kind of my whole ethos in terms of what I'm doing for my work now. So obviously, I've got my clinic work where I see people one-on-one. I've got the cleanses where I'm trying to help people eat in a good way to manage their body. But I've just started doing retreat days and retreats abroad because when when women allow themselves that time to really take time out and reconnect with themselves, it's so reinvigorating and reenergizing. It's like it's almost all you need is a little bit of time a day out or whatever it is, and it completely can recharge the batteries, put things in perspective, calm the nervous system. You know, if we're always in that fight or flight or rushing around busy, busy, we're not digesting our food properly. Yeah. Straight off, our stomach acid production is not a priority. So, yeah, it's really important to take time to de-stress and to move the body. Do you do meditate or anything like that? It's really interesting because when I was going through having these heart palpitations, I actually had suffered with quite a lot of anxiety at that time. And um the one thing that got me out of that was meditation. So I studied transcendental meditation. You can go on a little course and do them, and then you get given a mantra, and then you you do it twice a day. I rigidly did it twice a day. It was transformational for me. But you know, when everything goes back to being normal and you feel good again. Yeah, then nothing about it. I it is something I think I'd like to do that game, but I haven't, I not I I'm not right now doing that.
SPEAKER_00But that's interesting that it was life-changing for you then. It really was, really, really helped. It's your toolbox, isn't it? I think we hear that term quite a lot. It's finding the right toolbox for you and finding the things that actually work for you and you feel comfortable about doing. I think some people I can imagine maybe my mum saying, Oh, that's all a bit woo-woo, isn't it? And actually, I think sometimes we have these blocks on things and go, oh, that's not for me. Oh no, I'm not gonna sit there meditating, you know. So you've got this image in your head of sitting there with the hands out and the Buddha in front of you. But actually, it doesn't even have to be that. You can be just sitting in your armchair somewhere, can't you?
SPEAKER_01And I used to do it on a school run. I used to go a bit early and do it sat in the car. Yeah. Before the kids came out, which was it was a good way to force myself to do it because I I was just sat in the car. Yeah. But it makes me laugh because breath work is another thing that I have been doing, and I really laugh. And I I mentioned that to my husband. He went, Don't we all breathe? What do you think? You're special. That's so funny. Oh gosh. Anyway, yeah, there are lots of tools, there's lots of things that we can do to get the nervous system on track and relax.
SPEAKER_00Because breath work isn't just about your regular breathing or just just everyday breathing, is it? No, it's not no resetting how you breathe. And I would do I'd I need to give that a try, actually, and um go to go to some breath work sessions. I think that would be a really nice way to carve out some time for myself in in the world.
SPEAKER_01It's a really good way to release stuff, and also you get points of real clarity. It's a bit like meditation, you get moments of absolute clarity, and you think, oh my god, like light bulb moments. Yeah, brilliant.
SPEAKER_00Well, we shall round things up with a little game of this or that. So, Fran, get ready. I've tried these uh this and thats as a quick fire round before, and half the time they end up being really long. So we're gonna try and do it quick. I think I could probably guess some of the answers for some of these though as well. Okay, sweet or savory. Oh Yosie, I thought I'd know the answer to this. You know what?
SPEAKER_01I hate these questions, and my kids ask me things. If you had to choose, I'm like, Yeah, but I don't have to choose, so I'm not going to choose. I love savoury. I love sweet. I do have a sweet tooth as well. Okay. So if I had to choose savoury.
SPEAKER_00Coffee or matcha?
SPEAKER_01Matcha.
SPEAKER_00Three meals a day or little and often? Three meals a day. Dark chocolate or fruit for dessert. Challenge the nutritionist. Dark chocolate. Carbs with dinner or carbs earlier? Well, I'd go with if you're talking multi-carbs earlier. Probiotics or fermented foods? Fermented foods. Kale or spinach? Both. No, you can't. That's not the game, Fran. Okay, fine. I'm gonna, you're a nutritionist. You've got to have them both. Oh, smoothie or whole fruit? Whole fruit. Because you get better fibre, is it? Yeah. Yoga or strength training.
SPEAKER_01You see, that's like it's like that's just when things get taken out of context, isn't it? Oh, Fran thinks yoga's better than strength training.
SPEAKER_00Uh no, no one's going to judge you. And there's an argument that yoga can make you strong as well.
SPEAKER_01I was gonna say, the yoga I do is strength training, but I guess I would go with strength at the moment.
SPEAKER_00Current status, strength. Oh, meditation or sound bath. I love a sound bath. I love a sound bath. They're so good, aren't they?
SPEAKER_01It's I'm gonna I'll go for sound bar. I just go for a little snooze. It's just a little snoozy cat nap. You can do that, and you know the healing frequencies of the sound are just working their magic. You don't have to do that. Exactly, exactly.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, it's it's one of my favourite things. Yeah. So if you're going on a walk, podcasts or music. Silence. Nature. I like that alternative. I'll let you have that. Wine or mocktail? Definitely not mocktail. Too much sugar.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, unless it's a good mocktail like mother root or bativo or something like that, or something I've made myself, like a tequila with fresh lime and sounds good.
SPEAKER_00So you do I don't we we didn't touch on alcohol actually. I do drink alcohol if that's what you're gonna ask me. Pretty much, basically. Are we still allowed?
SPEAKER_01I don't drink loaves, and I will choose my, you know, when I want to. Do you know what I mean? I don't drink every week, but I will enjoy a drink out if I'm going out.
SPEAKER_00Is there a more I guess an I don't know? Yeah, a cleaner alcohol. What's the best? Is it is tequila? Is that a good option? The good tequila's pretty clean.
SPEAKER_01Wadcler goodcare with you know, I wouldn't have tonic because it's got yeah, quinines in which aren't great.
SPEAKER_00Well, my current favourite is a is a margarita, like a proper fresh lime tequila. A margarita. So, Fran, each episode I like to round things off with a recommendation from my guest for our listener. So, is there something in your life or in your world that you're really loving? It could be a great TV show or a new hobby. What's something that you're loving right now? So I love reading.
SPEAKER_01It is just such an escape, it broadens the mind, it is relaxing. I love it. And I loved what have I read recently? Butter. It's Japanese, so it's a really lovely insight into the Japanese culture. It's got two or three female protagonists, which are awesome. It's quite funny, it's a crime, complex characters, lots of emotion going on, but there's a lot of detail around the So Butter by Asako Yazuki. Yes, and I just bought her and the book called Hooked. In fact, I bought it here. So I yeah. Really, really cool. And then I another one I read, Tomorrow, tomorrow, tomorrow, which they're making into a film now, but it was epic. I can I can do actually it's really nouris and it comes back to nourishment again, doesn't it? It's really nourishing for the mind and I think emo emotional stability and yeah, it's brilliant. Wow, there's so much that I can go into waffle on about anything. Thank you very much for that.