What Would She Do?
What Would She Do? is for the woman who already knows what to do — and is done pretending that's the problem.
Hosted by Jennie Reynolds, nutritionist, health coach and someone who has spent years learning to hear what people aren't saying, this podcast goes beyond the plan. Beyond the information. Into the patterns, the identity, and the question underneath everything.
Sometimes it's just Jennie. Sometimes it's a conversation with a woman whose story will make you think a little differently about your own. Either way — the question is always the same.
What would she do?
What Would She Do?
From Crippling Anxiety to the Stage — Jo Ferrone on Impostor Syndrome and Becoming Resilient
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What if the thing that nearly stopped you was the thing that made you? Jo Ferrone is a coach and the founder of How Does She Do It — a community supporting women in business.
In this conversation we get into impostor syndrome, why it shows up so strongly in capable women, and what actually helps. And then Joe shares her own story — severe anxiety from her teenage years, the GCSEs it nearly derailed, and the parents who pushed her toward the things she wanted to avoid rather than letting her withdraw. That decision changed everything. She's now a public speaker who has built her career helping other women move through the same fear she once lived inside. What would she do? She'd do the hard thing anyway.
Find me on Instagram @worklife_health or drop me an email at jennie@worklifehealth.co.uk — and you can find Jo @howdoesshedoitlife or @siulvoicebyjoferrone
Instagram: @worklife_health
Email: jennie@worklifehealth.co.uk
Welcome to What Would She Do? I'm Jenny Reynolds, nutritionist, health coach, and someone who has spent years learning to hear what people aren't saying. Sometimes it's just me, other times it's conversations with women whose stories will make you think a little differently about your own. So, it's time to ask yourself, what would she do? Today I'm sitting down with Jo Farone. Jo is a coach and the founder of How Does She Do It, a community built to connect and support women in business through co-working, mentoring and membership. We talk about imposter syndrome, what it actually is, how it shows up in women, and what genuinely helps. Jo shares that as a teenager she lived with crippling anxiety, severe enough that it threatened to stop her from finishing school. What changed things wasn't avoiding the things that she found hard, it was her parents supporting her and pushing her towards them. That decision shaped the woman she became, someone who now stands on stages and speaks to rooms full of people who's determined to help other women move through the same fear she once lived inside. I think this conversation will give you a lot to sit with. Let's get into it. Hi Jo, thank you so much for joining us on the What Would She Do podcast. We met a couple of weeks ago at the Midlife Mayhem live event, and I absolutely loved listening to your talk on imposter syndromes.
SPEAKER_01Thank you so much for having me, Jenny. Yes, and um I loved meeting you a few weeks ago, and I also loved your talk as well. And it's really, really wonderful to be here to have this conversation with you today. Um, I'm Joe Ferroni, as you say, um my business is called How Does She Do It? And it's a community for female founders and aspiring female founders as well to um support, encourage, and inspire one another across a variety of offerings from one-to-one mentorship um all the way through to an online membership and um networking events and a podcast as well.
SPEAKER_00That sounds amazing. So um imposter syndrome, um, it's something that we hear a lot about actually now. It seems to be a bit of a bit of a thing. I hear lots of women in particular talking about feeling like they suffer with imposter syndrome. How how would you define imposter syndrome and and is it different to just being kind of low in confidence?
SPEAKER_01I think it's a really good question, and I think that confidence definitely comes into it, but I do think it is a little bit different from just being low, low in confidence. Um, for me, being low in confidence um feels a bit, you're feeling a bit nervous, you're a bit uncertain, you're not quite ready to do things. Whereas I think the the added bonus, if you like, for imposter syndrome, um, and I'm being completely ironic here, calling it a bonus, is that actually I think we have like a constant inner soundtrack in our minds, and it can manifest in many different ways, um, including a lack of self-confidence. So that's why I do think confidence comes under the imposter syndrome umbrella, as it were. Um, we can really distrust our own capabilities, we can feel a little bit like we're a fraud in what we're doing. Um we have three P's, um, perfectionism, people pleasing, and procrastination very much comes into it as well. Um, as well as things like comparisons. So I think we've all been there where we've got that voice in our head saying, you know, who am I to be stood here? You know, that person over there would do so much better a job than I can do. Um, because we we always compare ourselves unfavourably with everyone else. And um that again can be part of that that soundtrack that's looping around and around.
SPEAKER_00Do you do you think that this is something that shows up more in women than in men?
SPEAKER_01It's a really hard one to to judge, but I certainly hear more women talking about it than than men. I I remember a conversation recently where someone was saying, I'm just gonna go for that job because I know that there will be guys out there that don't even feel fully qualified for it, but they would apply for it. Yet this person thought, I am fully qualified, but I've been doubting it. Am I really good enough? And she said, I'm just gonna be a bit more man about it. And just so I think that whether whether guys have turned down the dial a bit sooner than we have turned down that dial, um, in terms of the volume of that imposter syndrome, or whether it's just something that doesn't affect them quite so readily, I'm not quite sure.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, it's it's an interesting one, isn't it? Because that kind of feeling of not being enough or not being good enough is it's actually a common pattern that shows up in lots and lots of different areas of life, isn't it? And you know, when I'm working with clients, even talking about nutrition, when we start to kind of dig a little bit deeper into some of the behavioural patterns that are undermining their attempts to make changes and to stick with healthier habits, that feeling of, well, actually, I'm just not quite good enough is something that shows up across the board, isn't it? And can be just this little, like you say, like a little nagging voice in the back of your head. Um and it's quite surprising, I think, when you're, you know, I think that we're in maybe a privileged position that women will have these kinds of conversations with us. But they're often women who on first glance appear to be really high-functioning, really high achieving, high-flying professional women who've got really busy lives. And on, you know, on the face of it, they look like they've got it all together, and yet somehow there's this thing running underneath that's kind of pulling them back. What do you what do you think that, you know, do you see this costing women something?
SPEAKER_01I do, and I feel there's a disconnect between the the reality and how talented and how much expertise this woman might have, and then how they feel about themselves. And I do think that as women, we're always trying to better ourselves, and we'll set ourselves a goal, and you'll see this in the work that you do, and then we might reach that goal, but we'll be straight on to the next thing. So I think we're we're always trying to better ourselves. Um, but I I I recognise that it does cost women an awful lot, and you talked about professional, high-achieving women. Just thinking of one example I used in the presentation back at Midlife Mayhem Live, um, Michelle Michelle Obama, who you know we see speaking, and you know, she's just such an incredible, incredible person. She claims that imposter syndrome never goes away. So there's there's an example, and I and I feel that if we allow imposter syndrome to remain on full volume, what we're gonna hold ourselves back from is all the potential that we we have. Um, and we do have so much potential, and I think that we're just gonna hide away um disbelieving um our potential and almost go, well, who am I to do that? Well, perhaps I'm not. Um, and that person over there is so much better than me, so perhaps I won't. And I think we're just gonna make ourselves smaller and smaller and almost talk ourselves growth.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Do you have any kind of insight or do you see any patterns in women um to kind of see where this where this comes from? Is there like a common theme that you've seen, or can it be different?
SPEAKER_01I think it can I think it can vary, but I do think that a lot of our experience of imposter syndrome could stem back from those days in the school playground when we were wanting to be good enough, we were wanting to be liked, um, you know, actually not just the school playground, you know, grades and things. We were always encouraged, obviously, to to do our best to be aiming for that grade that our teachers thought we could do. Um, and it didn't necessarily meant mean that we believed it ourselves, but but also the school playground where you know we didn't want to stand out for the wrong reasons, we didn't want anyone to call us a big head or or kind of almost sort of look across to us and think, who does she think she is? You know, so I think we've almost been conditioned to play it a bit small, yeah.
SPEAKER_00That's so interesting. I um was actually speaking to a client last week who was talking about exactly that. Um she was in a group at school that was almost singled out, like they were taken away from regular lessons because they were kind of labelled as high achievers. And actually, when this group got mentioned in assembly, the other children would actually boo. So it became a bad thing. It became this association with being good at something means that you'll be disliked. And it's actually that kind of thing of putting your head above the parapet and um exposing yourself and becoming vulnerable. And this is something that has continued with her throughout her entire adult life, you know, this belief that it's just not a good thing to be really good at something, or it's certainly not a good thing to shout about it or to be recognised publicly for it. So she's recognizing this pattern around never really pushing herself out there. And she she's a self-employed woman who's very, very good at her job. And I won't give away any more details so that I can keep it anonymous, but she's excellent at her job. And she still struggles with this kind of, I don't really want to promote myself, I don't want to put myself out there because this programming is so strong. Um, it's and I think a lot of us have some sort of example of that, you know, don't get too big for your boots kind of thing.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, and I was just thinking as you were as you were referencing that client of yours, that there are people who are afraid to speak up in a meeting or at an event, put their hands up to answer a question, because I think their body just goes into this uh this remembering of how it felt to be in a classroom among your peers when you were hormonal, you were a teenager, and then the tea then the teacher said, What's your answer? What do you think the answer is? And oh my gosh, I mean, I'm just getting tingles thinking about it, you know. Yeah, the heart rate goes up. Yeah. You felt yourself getting embarrassed and going a bit red, and and what if you got it wrong, you know, you because there was always this expect expectation, get it or get it right. Um, and I think that we can we can bring ourselves back to that without even realizing it, and that's where we freeze and and hold back from potentially putting the wrong spotlight on us.
SPEAKER_00There's a nervous system memory, isn't there? Um, and we hold it in our bodies. And it it is really interesting to start to talk about these experiences that we had in our early lives. And, you know, I am a great believer in the theories that talk about the things that happen in the first seven years of your life, really shaping you. Um, you know, we're like little sponges at that point, aren't we? And and our experiences, how people relate to us, how we experience the world around us, you know, whether or not we're responded to in a certain way, all of that starts to kind of it sort of forms these, this, these, it's almost like a computer program, isn't it? If you imagine like a blank disc and it's like coding and this programming gets written, and then we just keep repeating the same program because it's all we know. It's it's what our comp uh our sort of nervous system knows to be true, and we then we form beliefs around it, and then those beliefs will influence our behaviour and our thoughts, and we just keep doing the same thing over and over again. And I think I've had I've had feedback or a conversation actually with somebody who was a little skeptical about kind of digging into past. You know, this is somebody who was just very practical and like, well, let's just look forward. Why do we need to dig into our childhoods all the time? And and actually, it's not it's not about kind of trying to relive all this trauma and really feel the feeling that you felt in assembly that once when you were singled out and you froze, but just understanding it, like seeing it, acknowledging it, recognising it for what it is, can take away a little bit of its power, can't it? Like its hold on you.
SPEAKER_01It it really can. And I do think that if we can try and reframe that and get to the point where we can allow ourselves to experience things that we've perhaps been holding back on, we're gonna help to deprogram that conditioning a bit because we're gonna have new results, if you like, to refer back to rather than you know the assembly and you get singled out, but actually the opportunity where you spoke up in a meeting yesterday and you didn't feel embarrassed and you were listened to and you felt really good and really brave for having done it.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, so a new basically a new response. So you almost learn a new, it's new conditioning, isn't it? Like actually, it's safe for me to do that because the last time I did it, actually, the reaction was really positive, and we can start to learn a new, a new response to it, but we have to be brave enough to do it that first time, don't we? And it's almost like um, you know, when you talk to your children and you might say to them, well, what's the worst thing that could happen? And actually, the worst thing that could happen might be that someone would laugh at you, and then you go, Okay, is it how how bad is it really? Um, but yeah, trying something new and then getting to experience a different version of that response is so powerful, isn't it?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, it it really is, and it it does mean we have to be brave, and it can still feel a little bit scary even as an adult.
SPEAKER_00Yes, so it's still gonna require that pushing you out of your comfort zone. Um, is there anything else that women usually do to cope with feeling like this, or do you think they just get into the habit of staying a little bit smaller?
SPEAKER_01I think it feels safer to get into that habit of staying smaller, but I certainly encourage women to to try reframing that that inner voice which can be working against us. Um, and you know, for example, you know, I talked about how someone might feel they're a bit of a fraud, you know, who am I to be stood here speaking um on a stage about XYZ instead of feeling that they're a fraud, maybe to actually say something in their head along the lines of, you know, I'm really brave for standing up here and stepping out of my comfort zone by speaking to these people. And to almost, you know, it's almost quite you're mothering yourself in a way. Um, you're you're just being kinder, you're speaking kind and encouraging words to yourself. Um, but I do think that reframing can can really help. And and I speak from experience because, you know, having struggled a lot in the past with with my anxiety and and what have you, I remember I used to have things in my head if I was in a situation where I'd struggled before, the kind of things that were going around my head were, oh my gosh, what if you feel sick again? Oh my goodness, um, what are people gonna think if you have to you know get up and leave the room, and even though you're in the middle of a load of people? And so I would feed myself all of this negative. And so when I talk to people about reframing that inner voice, I'm speaking from such experience because I turned that on its head. Um and I keep having to do that as well. I think it's always a work in progress, don't you?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I mean, I think it's definitely a journey, isn't it? And um, and obviously you shared a little bit about your your personal experience of suffering with anxiety and panic attacks when you were younger. Um, are you are you okay to share a little bit about that today as well? Just a bit of context in your background.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, of course. Of course. So essentially, I had my first panic attack when I was about 15, and it came out of nowhere. Um, there was no reason for it that I was aware of. And yeah, I certainly didn't see it coming. And I was I was in the middle of a what felt like a very long row of seats in a London theatre. Um, I was with my family, um, who, you know, I've been very lucky. I've got a lovely family, so you know, happy family. We were all sat there enjoying the show, and just suddenly it came over me. Um I got so hot, um, started shaking. I felt very, very sick. Um, and all I could think was, there's no escape. I don't know what to do. I'm about to be sick in the middle of a London theatre in the in the auditorium. What are people gonna think? Oh my gosh, I'm gonna disturb everyone. This is gonna be so embarrassing. Um you know, all these things rush through my head. And of course, when you're when you're in a theatre and everyone's watching the show, you don't even really feel you can sort of whisper to someone next to you and say, I'm struggling. Um, and so I just had to kind of deal with it in my in my own mind, and it was a matter of what's the worst of the two things that could happen here. I could either be sick in the middle of an auditorium, which you know, sorry to talk about sick, um either be sick in the middle of this auditorium and everyone's gonna see me and everyone's going to look at me and it's gonna be awful, or I can work my way out of this row of of seats so I can get to a bathroom. Um, but that wasn't really the easy option either, because there must have been at least 15 or 20 people um in either direction um for me to get. What did you do? What did you do on that occasion? I counted down to myself and I was just like, you are just gonna have to get out of here. So you're gonna get attention whatever way you do this. People are gonna look, you're gonna disturb people, but the alternative was not was not an option. And so I just had to get out. Um, and it felt uh, you know, the relief I felt when I got behind people, you know, at the back of the auditorium was was huge, but I went to the loser, I still felt very ill. I wasn't, um, but um I didn't go and sit back in the seat, I stood at the back for the rest of the show and um tried to calm myself down. Um, but yeah.
SPEAKER_00So that was the first time that had happened. That must have been quite a shock, really, if it's not something that you were used to dealing with.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, it it was it was a huge shock, and and I was already quite a shy, quiet, more nervous person anyway. So I didn't like any kind of attention on me, even in the best of times. And so yeah, that was it was pretty awful.
SPEAKER_00And so after it happened that first time then, how did it, did it continue to show up in your life? You know, how did it affect you?
SPEAKER_01It it did, it kept, it kept happening. Um, I you know, I could not go into an assembly in the big school hall um for for quite some time. I struggled to go into school, um, and so I'm definitely feeling so much compassion for people that have got um children who are unable to go into this into school now. We hear a lot of school refusers, so I very much relate. Um the the school nurse said to called mum and dad in and said she's not gonna be able to do her GCSEs um because. I couldn't even sit in an assembly, let alone in there with in exam conditions. Um, and so it it affected a lot. And to this day, if I am going to a theatre, I still try and book an ILC. Um, I can cope with it a lot better now, but it's still it still can come up for me.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. I mean, I think sometimes it's a capacity issue, isn't it? You know, if that's your default programming for whatever reason, um, then you can learn to override it and you can learn to manage within it. And as you say, when you have a few positive experiences under your belt, you can start to kind of consciously refer to those. Um, but where we if we have a situation where we've got less capacity available, so whether that's through tiredness, whether there's other stresses going on, maybe it's really hot, maybe there's something going on hormonally, like whether it's a physical capacity issue or a mental or emotional capacity issue, then your your ability to kind of manage reduces, and and it's like you know that it's still there kind of thing, but it's it's constantly something that you have to be aware of, I guess.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, definitely much so. And I still have coping coping mechanisms that I employ every time I'm um I'm going into a a theatre type um situation or a meeting and what have you. I always have to have water on me. Um, I will always have a packet of mints on me. Um, and I've got it's got a lot better over the years. And you know, I have been a lot of places without a packet of mints in recent years and and not felt alarmed at the thought that I've forgotten them.
SPEAKER_00Um but yeah, it's not always been the way. So was there a particular turning point then, or was this something that you've just gradually learned, you know, what works for you over a period of time?
SPEAKER_01I I don't remember a particular turning point necessarily, but I do know that I've worked on myself a lot over the years. Um there there was a point where I had a bit of a bad experience when my eldest was um at infant school and um someone kind of turned on me a little bit, another parent, which was not fun in any way, and it really caused me an awful lot of trouble um in terms of my evidence and and what have you. And I won't go into sort of more detail than that, but what that did propel me to do um some months later was to take myself out to put myself in a place that was out of my comfort zone. Um, so I went to a networking event, um, which was um not a business networking event, more of a social one. Um, and I went on my own and I just told myself, right, just rave yourself forward.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. I mean, it's I guess it's it's interesting, isn't it, that uh how you have dealt with it is has has clearly worked for you. And and it's it would be nice to kind of know that this might be helpful for other people because I mean, you know, we've we've met because you were standing on a stage, speaking publicly to this room full of women, um, and obviously you you run a community, you host a podcast. So, yeah, how how have you managed to to get to this point then? What's your secret?
SPEAKER_01I would say my secret, and I'm gonna credit my mum and dad for this. So, just very quickly, I'll take you back to when the school nurse said that I wasn't gonna be able to do my GCSEs. Luckily, my parents spoke to someone um who knew of someone who had a child with a lot of anxiety as well. And this person's advice was don't allow her to not continue with anything. Um, and I've not said that very well, but essentially they tough love, they they nudged me. Um, it it probably felt like to them like they were being cruel to be kind, um, not cruel in an awful way, but just you know, I wasn't beaming at the thought of going into school on the days when I was really, really struggling. But we, you know, they helped. We went in later, we walked, my mum was really supporting me. Um, dad was taking me out early in the morning. There were so many things that we did, and I did do my GCSEs, and I did really well in my GCSEs, and I sat in an exam room, I didn't have a separate um separate exam room or anything like that. I was in the exam room and it was nerve-wracking. But what I will say is that I have I've done the things that feel big and hard, even when I've been very, very nervous. I've felt very um sicky and shaky and anxious. Um, but I've come out the other side, and I think that I just keep doing the things and I do them scared, and I I I in the build-up to them, I can get quite nervous. Um, I've got to say though, for um Midlife Mayhem Live, I didn't. Um I am getting to the point now where I feel less nerves than I've ever felt before, which I'm so proud of. It's such a massive thing, massive thing to be. Um, but I don't hide from things just because they're gonna be hard and fear-inducing. I almost I almost go head first into them and prove to myself that I can do hard things. And I believe that we can all do hard things, but it doesn't mean it's gonna feel easy at the time.
SPEAKER_00No, is it was it Brene Brown that says, you know, we can do hard things, but it is so, so true, so simple. And I think, you know, without big being kind of provocative or controversial, but I think there is a bit of an issue now with some younger people where there's a bit of a lack of resilience because we're not required to do hard things. There's a big difference between forcing someone to do something that just makes them feel physically sick and being cruel, as you say, and doing it from an unkind place. And and and actually letting them off the hook all of the time just means that they're never potentially going to stretch themselves, and we have to stretch ourselves in order to grow. So you're almost not doing yourself or someone else any favours if you're never asking them to do something uncomfortable. But it's like it's really hard to know where that kind of tipping point is. But I think you're right, you know, that there's a there's a growing number of children who are, you know, school refusers and growing numbers of children with neurodivergence and anxiety and depression, and and there's lots and lots of different reasons for that, which we couldn't possibly go into today. But I do think that there is this theme around um, you know, lots of therapy speak and this this kind of language around, well, I don't really need to do that because you know I've learned about boundaries and I don't need to do anything that I feel uncomfortable with, versus, okay, well, how then do you, how do you build resilience if you're not prepared to do that? It's such an interesting, big, big topic.
SPEAKER_01I I I agree, it it's really fascinating. And all I will say is that I want to, I want to go into schools and I want to speak to, I want to speak to parents, I want to speak to teenagers because I like you say, there's almost a bit of a disconnect between me standing up and presenting at a conference and then having told you what I have struggled with all my life. Um, I understand that, but I I want to be proof that you know we do have to sometimes push ourselves into into situations that feel hard, feel um, you know, anxiety-inducing, and can be good things that come out of it. Um and and I think about resilience as well.
SPEAKER_00Um, I feel I mean everything that you've said is is about examples of where you have actually taken it upon yourself to push yourself out of your comfort zone. And it sounds as though that that was made kind of safe for you because you were supported by your parents to do hard things when you were younger, you know. So as much as it might have felt really uncomfortable, you weren't doing it alone. You know, you had parents who were pushing you to do something uncomfortable, but were doing it in a really kind and supportive way, like you weren't on your own. There's got to be something to be said for that, hasn't there? I think there really has.
SPEAKER_01Um, and I do want to just speak to the fact that that first networking event that I mentioned was pretty excruciating, and it was really key. There were so many people in cliques there, and I can't tell you how awkward I felt at it at it. And I didn't come home feeling, oh, I'm really glad I did that. That's that's been really good for me. Um, because I I felt really on my own and isolated actually. Um, but again, I didn't walk out the door, I stuck with it, tried to hold my head high, tried not to look as nervous as I felt. Um, and that again was just another, another sort of layer, another brick, if you like, um, in in me building my resilience.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, and I think I think at those events it's it's interesting, isn't it? Because, well, I I spoke to another podcast guest a few weeks ago, and one thing that she said was about how um she felt a little bit on the outside of groups. She didn't use the word cli, but she was talking about feeling like she hadn't connected with groups of women. And it was only when she started talking about the fact that she felt like she was on the outside and that she wanted to have these deeper conversations that some of these women actually started coming up and saying, Well, I want that as well, you know. But actually, um, so we can't we have this thing, don't we, where we might walk into a room and see groups of women standing together and just assume that they are better than us or know more than us or that they've got these really close friendships or that they might not want to speak to us. And until someone sort of makes the first move, you'll you'll never know. But the chances are they feel very similar to you. It's I find it's so fast, and even at our age, you know, it can still be the same, can't it? And and maybe we all just need to be a little bit more open with each other. I don't know.
SPEAKER_01Absolutely, absolutely, yeah, and uh it very much, but that experience. I did try and um join some of the conversations um that night, and I remember people weren't weren't the weren't the warmest. Um that's how it was. But do you know what that drives me? That's what's driven me for the last decade with my networking events that I host. We are we are arms open, we're welcoming. I will never let someone arrive at my event without personally welcoming them and then taking them to introduce them to someone, um, you know, to make sure they're not on their own, because there's no matter your age, whether you're 15 or whether you're 75, you know, you don't want to feel alone or we I was just at a yoga retreat this weekend and there was lots of women there who had known each other for a long time, and then there were women who kind of maybe see each other at yoga, and then there were people who came on their own or friends of friends that came.
SPEAKER_00And actually in the group chat after the event, so many were saying, like, I was anxious about coming, I didn't know whether I was going to fit in, but everyone just made me feel so welcome. Um, and actually it's it doesn't, it doesn't take much, does it, to to do that and to create that kind of community feel and that environment when we recognise how important it is. And I think in this day and age where so much stuff happens online, there is really something to be said for that kind of face-to-face connection and just relationship building and just a little bit of a deeper conversation.
SPEAKER_01Definitely. It's so important, the most important thing, as far as I'm concerned.
SPEAKER_00So you've mentioned your networking events. Um, tell me a little bit about the community that you've been building. Is it just kind of um business networking? I know you mentioned you've got a podcast as well.
SPEAKER_01Um, yeah, so it it is primarily business networking, but we're such an open and kind and connected group of people that I would always welcome people that are at a junction in their life and they're not quite sure where they're going next. Because if you want to learn about whether running a business might be for you, come and speak with people that are doing it. Everyone is so happy to sort of talk and share. But yeah, I've been running running how does she do it for um a decade now, and it has um it's grown over time, and I am passionate about bringing women together to not only bolster their businesses, but also in a very holistic way. It's about their self-belief, their self-confidence, their giving them an opportunity to speak to a room full of kind-hearted women who want to hear from them, you know, giving people that opportunity to get visible and build their confidence in what they're doing. So many of us are our small business owners. We run the um events both in person down in Surrey and in Hampshire, but also online as well. So there's no geographical sort of barrier. The online events are just as powerful and connected as the in-person ones. Um, I've also got an online membership where we're a smaller group, very close knit, and very much each other's cheerleaders, where we are we're learning, we're learning together, we're sharing the ups and downs of running a business, um, especially in the WhatsApp group um chat. Um we're promoting what we're doing and um very much shouting out testimonials when we work with each other as well. Um, I offer guest masterclasses, so we have an um a monthly masterclass in the membership hub where my members get to learn about all different types of things, both in business and in life, um, which they can either hear live or they can go back and uh work their way through the archives and watch in their own time. And it's just it's wonderful to see, and it's very important, I believe, to allow women the opportunity to share with complete and utter transparency and vulnerability as well without worrying that it's going to have a detrimental effect on their on their business.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I mean, there's when you're running a small business, um, you have to take on so many different roles, don't you? And you can be really passionate about what you do, and you can have that degree of confidence in the actual work, but then also at the same time not have the confidence around maybe financial stuff or marketing or um, you know, all of the other stuff that goes alongside running a business, aside from actually just delivering the work that you are delivering. Um, and actually, I was talking to another nutritionist actually at an event recently, and she was saying, like, I'm absolutely fine with, you know, face to face with a client. I I know that I know what I'm doing, I know that I can help this person. She said, but it's everything else, you know, it is the social media, it's the marketing, it's the what system do I use? Do I need to be sending emails? Um, it's it's all of the extra stuff around it, which can be quite overwhelming, I guess.
SPEAKER_01It really can be. And I think that the longer we work for ourselves and remain isolated, the bigger those problems can become. And also bringing it back to the imposter syndrome, we can think, oh God, you know, I just don't get the accounts or the financial side of my business, because of course it's not why you went into your business if you're a nutritionist, um, or many other things. Um, and you can almost tell yourself the story when you are isolated, that everyone else has got it sorted, um, and you're the only one who hasn't. And that's where I think that this conversation that we keep keep open and keep um flowing is so important because we can stop putting ourselves.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, and I think there's do you know what I see quite a lot is particularly with women business owners, there's this tendency to downplay what you do and kind of make it this, oh, it's just my little, you know, my my little business. Um, whereas actually, you know, you're a CEO, you know, you you you are running a business. And again, that I think that that is the thin end of the wedge with the imposter syndrome, isn't it? It's um it doesn't sound as harsh because you're not saying anything overtly negative, but it is a little hint at it, isn't it? You know, that reluctance to really back yourself and to to give it the kind of kudos that perhaps it deserves.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, we um we need to stop playing playing small and uh we do need to, I think, hold hold our heads high and you know, really stand tall and stand proud in in what we do.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Thank you. Um so do you work with clients one-to-one as well? Or is this just a community? Yeah, I do.
SPEAKER_01I work, I I mentor clients um in a number of different ways. I I I have a package um which is called the Business Brainstorm Package, which I absolutely love doing. Um, and it gives it gives the business owners such insights into their own business and how they want to be moving it forward. But I also just do hourly sessions or two hourly sessions as well, where a business owner can just um they can just book on and they can share with me any area of their business that they want to work on, um, you know, whether that is public speaking and and confidence um or whether it is more of the business strategy side of things. And so I get I get a lot of variety in my clients um because they can choose how they um want to utilize that time, but it of course they're all different types of business owners as well, which keeps my keeps my job really, really interesting and creative.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, nice and varied. Okay, so yeah, you sound like a very busy lady, so I won't keep you for too much longer, but there's a question that I will be asking all guests on this podcast, um, and that is if you are to now imagine the next version of you, um what does she look like and what is she doing?
SPEAKER_01I think the next version of me is out there supporting even more women and getting myself in more places speaking like when when we met because that version of me is the one that has come to be because of all of the struggles and the challenges that she's faced, and so she wants to ensure that she can support as many other women or teenagers out there who might be going through what she has worked through.
SPEAKER_00And is there something small that you are able to do, you know, today or tomorrow that kind of shifts you, just moves you just a little step closer to?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, what I'm actually starting to try and do since I have spoken about my personal story a little bit more in some of the talks that I've done recently, what I've decided is that I actually need to just start doing some social media posts to share a little bit more of the what came before what is now. Um because I've had such great responses. Um and so I think I I owe it to I owe it to myself, but I owe it to my audience as well to share more of that because I think there are people out there that need to hear it and also on the podcast as well. I haven't done a solo episode in ages because I love I love giving visibility to my guests, but I think there need to be mini solo episodes coming very soon on the podcast as well.
SPEAKER_00Thank you so much for sharing that. I think um actually, because you you mentioned earlier on in our conversation that it felt like there was a disconnect between um, you know, someone seeing you standing on a stage talking about this and then talking about what you've experienced. And actually, I I wouldn't see it as a disconnect, actually. I think it adds real weight to what you're saying because you know, people there's I I think there can almost be like a lack of authenticity if you feel like someone's telling you how to do something that they've never done themselves, and actually knowing that you know you're taking advice from someone who's been there and really understands it and has you know been in your shoes, I think adds real adds real weight, actually. It's really powerful and and quite inspiring, I would say.
SPEAKER_01That's really kind of you to say. Thank you. I really appreciate it. I will take that on board for sure. Am I allowed to share a poem that very much speaks to what we've talked about today?
SPEAKER_00Yes, I would love you to, because I think that's the other thing. I've actually got um so you are also a poet and you gave us all a little um printed poem, and I've got mine standing on my desk in front of me now, so I see it every day when I sit down. So, yeah, I would love for you to share a poem. Thank you.
SPEAKER_01Oh, it's thank you so much. I'm so glad that you've uh you've got yours there. This one is about stepping out of your comfort zone, and I think that when we have imposter syndrome, it's essential that we do step out of our comfort zone. So I hope this speaks to you. The feeling when you step outside your comfort zones amazing, but the bit before is tough. Anxiety, it flows in full swing. It is well worth you pushing through deep breaths and affirmation. You will grow stronger every time you'll see a transformation.
SPEAKER_00Thank you. I love that. Um, and actually, when I shared a picture of the poem that you gave me at Midlife Mayhem, I had quite a few people respond saying how much they loved it. So, um, yeah, where can people find your poetry?
SPEAKER_01Oh, thank you. That wasn't a pitch at all. I just thought it's it spoke to what we've been uh I love it, yeah. Um so I'm on Instagram and it is Soul Voice by Joe Ferrari. It comes up quite quickly, I think.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, lovely. I'll put I'll put a link in the um notes as well. Well, thank you so much for your time today um and for chatting with us. I feel like we've covered lots of different areas actually, and I've I'm sure we could probably talk for another couple of hours. Um, but it was lovely to speak to you. Thank you for joining us.
SPEAKER_01Thank you so much for having me. I've really enjoyed it, Jenny, and I've loved the challenge of um yeah, of finding hopefully good answers to your questions. I've really enjoyed that sort of discovery that we've walked through.
SPEAKER_00If something landed for you today, I'd love to hear from you. Come and find me over on Instagram. And before you go, just take a moment and ask yourself what would she do?