They Don't Care Why It Went Wrong: How to Talk to Clients When Things Go Sideways

Blame might feel satisfying in the moment, but it is quietly torching your reputation, your team culture, and your profit. In this episode, we unpack why the buck really does stop with you as the business owner, and how owning that actually gives you more control, not less. We walk through real stories from our shop and our clients where shipping disasters, customs delays, and vendor mishaps could have turned into finger pointing, and instead became opportunities to reinforce trust and integrity. You will learn how to talk to clients when things go sideways without throwing your team or your circumstances under the bus, how to design policies that protect you from "unforeseen" issues, and when it is actually helpful to share context or responsibility. We also tackle the classic line "you have to spend money to make money" and show you where that is true, where it is killing your cash flow, and what to stop spending on immediately so you can run a profitable, high end business you are proud of.

Highlights

00:00 Rat boy summer, fat boy fall, and why this episode is really about blame.

04:30 How casual blame creeps into everyday conversations and business stories.

09:15 Why throwing your own team under the bus makes you look insecure and unprofessional.

14:00 Handling mistakes in house without making your client part of the internal drama.

18:45 Blaming circumstances like shipping, weather, and vendors and how that lands on your client.

23:30 Real stories from customs delays, snowstorms, and missing packages that test your policies.

28:15 Building timelines, boundaries, and rush rules that protect you from "unforeseen" issues.

33:00 When it is actually appropriate to share responsibility or context with a client.

37:30 Why the buck stopping with you is the price of freedom in business and how to accept it.

40:45 Breaking down "you have to spend money to make money" for small, high end businesses.

44:00 What new businesses should avoid spending on, including swag and overbuilt branding.

47:30 A simple filter for deciding what to invest in next so you are not blaming your spending later.

Resources + Links

Apply for Luxury Clothier Collective Mastermind HERE

More resources for custom clothiers HERE

Watch on Youtube

Follow

Appointment Only in IG: @appointmentonlypod

Resources + Links
Apply for Luxury Clothier Collective Mastermind  HERE
More resources for custom clothiers HERE
Watch on Youtube

 Follow
Appointment Only in IG: @appointmentonlypod

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:00

I love this topic because it's something that nobody thinks about, but everyone does. Blaming people. We're gonna play a game. The blame game. We're gonna play the blame game. I'm not going to. You are. Uh-uh. You know it's your fault. Blaming is crazy. Like it's actually crazy behavior. And it's unbelievable. The types of things I have heard business owners straight up blame other people. Like, how old are we? Well, and we've all experienced that. We've all done it too, by the way. But the last thing that didn't go according to plan, whether it was you experienced it at a restaurant or whatever, we're in the middle of a renovation for our new shop.

SPEAKER_00 0:43

I don't care why. I don't care why.

SPEAKER_01 0:46

I don't need to know that this person didn't do this and this permit took this long. The blame game. This is Appointment Only, the podcast for entrepreneurs building profitable high-end businesses. If you want control, profit, and freedom from the endless hustle, this is for you. We're Kenny and Danny, twin brothers from day one and business partners for 15 years. We're sharing insights from our own experiences running a high-end small business, the highs, the lows, and what we've learned along the way that will help you build businesses you enjoy running that aren't running you. We're here to help you continue creating businesses that support the life you actually want to live. Your appointment starts now. So just a couple of things that I'm I'm not loving with our rhythm that we end up recording these on days where we're just about to get our haircuts. That is something that I actually did think about today. And so I just decided I'm like, you know what? I'm not gonna shave either. I don't care. You looked in the mirror and I'm not even gonna put a tie. I looked in the mirror and I said, Fug it with a G. Fug this. Fug it. It's like when you're a kid and you don't want to actually say swear word. Many of you regulars are are like, what are you talking about? You were allowed to swear. We were good kids. We were very good kids. Our parents said, don't swear. Fine. We said, okay, I'm gonna say shut up instead of shut up. I remember doing that once at camp. Shut up, dude. Our friend was like, Do you are you guys saying shut up? Oh, we got caught, busted. Fuck. And that was the first lie I ever told. No, I'm not. I looked in the mirror this morning and I said, Fug it to H E double hockey sticks. Well, it's actually perfect because the other thing, the other thing that I'm noticing, which I'm not loving, is not I don't care enough to do anything about it, but I'm losing money. You don't, you don't prioritize it. I don't well, I didn't say I can't afford it too. I can't afford it. I don't, I'm not gonna. Speaking of priorities and afford, we prioritized the tanning beds in college, even. Yeah, I know. We used to. Well, I didn't I didn't go a lot, but I that was it was very popular. There was something about that era. We were in college in the early 2000s, and it was like what you did. There was one strip mall that was walkable from the campus. Yeah, it had multiple tanning locations. I know it was very, very popular. And there were a couple of years where I I wasn't that guy who had a beautiful tan all year because that was gorgeous. You it was also still, it was very like, oh, everyone did it, but nobody talked about it. Yeah, it was really weird. But like all the guys did it. You'd run into them at the tanning booth, but they nobody like acknowledged it. So I wouldn't that Jim that Jim Gaffigan bit where he's like, everyone eats at McDonald's, but anytime you see what someone there, they're like, Oh, I'm not eating here, I'm here meeting a hooker. That's like what it was at the tanning tanning slide. Oh, I'm I'm I'm actually here uh meeting meeting somebody. Uh but it was so I would do it, but only through like the midfall. So I would prolong my tan. I wouldn't stay tan, you know what I mean? Yeah, you didn't want to be like have a really nice tan at Christmas, for example. There's a telltale sign. It's not the season for tan, but I'm I'm noticing on these videos, I'm not looking so tan anymore. It is no longer summertime, it is no longer rat boy summer. And it is it is fat boy fall. Well, we are participating. I was not able to uh to participate in Rat Boy Summer, but fat boy fall, look out. Yes, fat boy fall, fug it. Whale boy winter, here we come. Great to participate in Whale Boy Winter, Rat Boy Summer, yeah. Timothy Chalamet, um the one in the bear. That's why it's rat boy, right? Because he's kind of a rat looking. Yeah, but it but it was also Timothy Chalamet because he he's just gone crazy. But it's like, what do you mean he's gone crazy? Like he's been in a bunch of stuff that's been good. Sure, sure, sure. Got it. I thought you, I thought something happened to him where he like went nuts. Yeah, he's in a mental institute now. No, he actually thinks he's a rat. He's a furry. He's uh, yeah, exactly. So no, what's the guy's name? Who's in bear, who's also the rat boy? Jeremy White. Yeah, I think so. Jeremy White. That's not that sounds right. They're the rat boys. Yeah. White boy summer. And it was their white boy, rat boy summer for sure. He's such a good, they're both such good actors. I love it. I've seen Timothy Shalomet. That's a tough one. I haven't seen him in very much. Yeah, he's he's been in some stuff as of late. The Willy, I mean Willy Wonka was great. Oh, here you go. You heard it here for I get I get emotional like listening to like musicals. Uh-huh. And I was cry right now. No, I was gonna, I was really choked up watching Willy Wonka because there was a musical. I get choked up all the time. I can't make fun because I'm constantly crying. Doesn't matter what we're watching. Dancing with the stars gets me, but anytime we're watching anything, Gray's Anatomy, whatever, Madeline will look at me. She's like, Are you crying? If you ever have kids, you're doomed because I feel like so many of the kids' movies with a real storyline, there are like sweet moments or really the and and it's like brutal. What's the one with the happiness and sadness? Um inside out, inside out. Oh man. When bingo dies, no, bing bonkers, no. Bongo. No, it's not bing bing bong. Bing bong? Is it bing bong? I'm gonna look that up now. When when bozo dies. Inside out. It is uh that was really sad. What was his name? What are you so how are you how are you gonna be? Bing bong. It was bing bong. Bing bong. Okay, when bing bong Richard Kind. We speaking of Broadway, getting choked up in Richard Kind. We saw Richard Kind of. Richard Kind at the Broadway theater. We didn't see him at he wasn't on stage. That's cheating, by the way. When people ask what celebrities have you seen in New York or whatever, wherever you are. If you go to their work, you're not allowed to sit like that doesn't count. If you if you go to the Today show and you're like on the plaza or on Rockefeller Plaza, and then they come out and they're you know interacting with the crowd, that doesn't count as a celebrity setting because you went to their job, it has to be out of context. So when I, you know, I we went into we've seen uh Jason Moraz, uh Sarah Boreles, we saw that waitress rendition, which we way overpaid for, but it was 100% worth it. Prioritize. Prioritize. I don't consider that a celebrity sighting because I literally went to their job. So we went to the waitress musical when Jason Moraz was playing with uh Sarah Borrell. We spent an ungodly amount on tickets. It was worth every penny. And that night we were we went and we hung out outside this the stage door to try to meet Jason Moraz. We got coffees and we just kind of camped out, just waiting on the streets of New York, freezing cold. We waited for about an hour. It was, yeah, I mean, a while. And then we looked it up and he wasn't even doing the evening show. Yeah, so that was a waste. But we did see Richard Kind. He was in the audience, and as we like, as they let out all the doors on the side, he was kind of right in front of us, just walking by himself, wearing a backpack. Some other good celebrity sightings from uh being in New York. We had brunch with Justin and Haley Bieber. We did very, yes, they're very sweet people, very sweet people. We actually didn't quite it was bummer, they couldn't seat us together. So we were a little bit removed, but they did and they showed up about 30 minutes after the yeah, yeah. So I I did snap a picture of uh all of us together uh at at the end. It was just a picture from a distance of Justin Bieber, but we're looking at the camera though. Justin Bieber's looking straight at Danny's camera and he's giving him the stink eye. He's so you should see the stink eye. Yeah, it's uh it's quite the picture, but that was a good memory. We ran into ran into like as though we're friends. We brush shoulders with uh Ryan Reynolds. Oh, yeah. I didn't dare say anything when we ran into him. You've seen some good ones without me, Jake Gyllenhaal. There saw that one. That was a really good one. There's a Talking Stog. That's a top five sighting for me. I love speaking of people, you just love to watch their movies. Like you will figure out what movie you're gonna watch because they're in it. Jake Gyllenhaal is one of those people for me. Yep, yep. He's so good. Uh you saw John Ham. Oh, yeah, I saw John Hamm. Had brunch with John Hamm, had brunch together. Uh unfortunately, in a same situation, they didn't have the tables together. So he unfortunately was sitting outside. I was sitting inside, but we were together. It was a it was a nice memory. Anyways, uh, let's let's dive in and talk about. I love this topic because it's something that nobody thinks about, but everyone does. Blaming people. We're gonna play a game. The blame game. We're gonna play the blame game. I'm not going to. You are. Uh uh. You know it's your fault. Blaming is crazy, like it's actually crazy behavior, and it's unbelievable. The types of things I have heard business owners straight up blame other people. Like, how old are we? Well, and we've all experienced that. We've all done it too, by the way. But the last thing that didn't go according to plan, whether it was you experienced it at a restaurant or whatever, we're in the middle of a renovation for our new shop.

SPEAKER_00 10:37

I don't care why.

SPEAKER_01 10:39

I don't care why. I don't need to know that this person didn't do this and this permit took this long. The blame game. I get it. I get nobody wants to be at fault, right? And if you're not at fault, you want to point that out and you want to prove that you're not, you want to defend yourself. But ultimately, it doesn't solve the problem. And as business owners or people in the business world, entrepreneurs, it doesn't really even matter if you run a business, although we're gonna be speaking right to you, because that is there's no place in business ownership to be blaming people, right? But even as an employee of someone, don't blame people. There's no point. Why? Because the buck stops with you, especially as the business owner. When things are going wrong in your business, it is entirely possible and it's probably entirely legitimate that someone on your staff, on your team screwed something up. We're people. I make mistakes too. Danny makes mistakes too. Who makes more mistakes? You. No. Do you think so? I think so. I think it kind of depends on your definition. I think there's a lot more room for me to make mistakes because I'm the one who actually is writing everything down. Right. I think it just kind of depends on your definition of a mistake. Like if a mistake is forgetting to write something down, but it was soon enough where we remember it so we fill in the gap, you make a lot more mistakes. I definitely make, I definitely make lots of mistakes. I'm also doing a lot of the the high high value stuff. No, that's not what I was gonna say. I was gonna say so, it is what I was gonna say. But what I meant to say was I'm doing a lot of the uh heavy lifting. Yes, but no, like just the tedious stuff. I'm the one who's doing everything tedious, and you're not doing anything tedious. So when mistakes get made, it's oftentimes just something got missed on the sheet or a number was flubbed, or the I forgot to write the color of a fabric, you know, something like that. And so I am the one who ends up getting blamed for a lot of the mistakes, even though. Yeah, but you know what they say, the buck stops with you. They do say that. I know, I wish they didn't. But yes, you're right. I do I am the one who does that. So I do end up making mistakes for sure. And everyone on our team has never made a mistake. No. If only, right? But here's what happens. And I'm not listening we're not saying that if someone on your team does something wrong, you shouldn't say anything, you shouldn't point it out, you shouldn't tell them that they did it wrong. What we're saying is you shouldn't tell your client, oh yeah, that's because we have someone on our team named Amy. You shouldn't be saying, oh yeah, Amy screwed that up. Like, what? That doesn't make any sense. So when you do that, when you say, oh yeah, my employee Danny, that's classic Danny. Huh? Who, me? We call him dumb Danny around here because he's always making the dumbest mistake. Dumbo. Yeah, dumbo, dumbo Dan. At it again. But it makes you sound like a total asshole if you are going to blame people on your own team. Because you're it doesn't make you sound like a team player. It makes you sound like you think you're better than them, like you think you're smarter than them. It also doesn't matter if you're actually, you know, a level above them or two levels, or if you're the president and they're the they they're the intern. If you are presenting in a way where they're feeling like you think you're above someone, that's disgusting. And it it makes the client feel like you don't trust your own team, which brings sort of alarm bells into the client's mind of like, what type of business is this? This person's running around and they don't even trust the people that support them to do the job. Like, that's really strange. Right. And why would they hire someone who's not equipped to do the job? If they're so bad, why would they have gotten hired? It also is just really disrespectful to do that. And the person on the receiving end is gonna feel like, okay, if they're so quick to be disrespectful to their own teammates, their own team members, their own staff, they obviously don't have any respect for me. And I can only imagine the types of things they're gonna say about me when I'm not standing here. Yeah, what are they gonna say when I walk out the door to their team? So, yes, I understand the temptation. Trust me, I do. I am, I'm a I'm defensive. I get defensive about stuff and I'm working on it. Most people do operate that way where they they get a little, you know, criticism or you you hear that something didn't go well, and your first instinct is to try to try to prove why you actually did it right. You know, there could be a time and a place for that. And I think that's an internal thing. And I'm not gonna tell you how to run your business or have how to run your staff meetings. And there is a time and a place for that. And I do think sometimes you do need to duke it out with people on your team, especially if there are dumb and avoidable mistakes being made that are causing you to have issues with clients or customers that are putting you in a position where you need to accept all of the blame for something, even though it's not really your fault. That's something that needs to be addressed, but that isn't something that you need to bring to your client or your customer. In fact, you absolutely should not, because it is not going to do anything positive for the situation. It's also not gonna do anything positive for the longevity of your business. If you're in the habit of blaming your team members, they're probably gonna get sick of that. And you're gonna be in the situation where you have to constantly get new team members to blame. As the person who gets blamed, you do get sick of it. You get sick of it. But it's it's one of those things where it's like it gets old. You do have to look, you do have to see the forest from the trees a little bit when you're tempted to blame someone or to, you know, pass the blame really quickly, where yeah, that might help. You you might think that this would help in this scenario, but long game and long term, if you're in the in a position where you're essentially disrespecting the people that you've brought on, they're gonna get sick of that. They're gonna get sick of being the bad guy and uh they're gonna get sick of taking the fall and they're gonna go somewhere where they're not getting blamed constantly. Right. And and they they may just get to the point where they're thinking, well, if I am so bad at this, then I shouldn't be here anyway, and they'll leave. And like whether they get fired or they leave on their own, they're not gonna want to stick around very long. So those are just a few reasons of why, yes, I understand that it's not your fault. And you might want to blame someone, and it probably is their fault, but that there, there's no reason for the client to know that. There's no reason the customer needs to be brought in on that. Let's talk about blaming circumstances now. So you're not blaming the people around you, you're not passing the buck off on your assistant or on you know, whoever it is, the intern. The circumstances, this is so real. This is so real. And this, quite frankly, in our business, is usually the thing that's going on. The circumstance we're usually dealing with that's causing all the frustrations is usually something shipping related. It's usually timing. Obviously, no one's in control of that. No one really is to blame. I wish you could call up and speak to Mr. DHL sometimes. And and sometimes in so many businesses, there are things that are just understood circumstances that result in something not happening as promised. Like in the landscaping world, if it's raining outside, nothing they can do about it. Nobody is gonna be like, well, why is my backyard not done? Why is my backyard wet? Why are all the leaves falling? Or I bet the regulars are really excited for you to be done with your landscaping projects so they can hear analogies that don't have to do with landscaping. Well, here's one for you. If you run a snow removal company, right? If you get four feet of snow, well, actually, maybe you do, you know, hear from clients of yours who are like, why aren't you here right this second? But there's an understanding that if the snow keeps falling, it's not going to be a totally clear walkway or driveway or whatever it is that you're doing. There are some industries in which circumstances that are involved are just generally understood. And then there are other industries where circumstances involved are generally not understood. One example, we were we had done this wedding, entire wedding party. And what a party it was. What a party. I don't even know what what you're gonna refer to. So I'm we had done this entire wedding party uh for their suits. The bridesmaids had ordered dresses, and there was a huge snowstorm in the southern part of the United States, which is un generally unheard of. There's a circumstance for you. Yeah. Oops, they nobody was prepared for it. This wedding was happening down there. But the the bridesmaids had all ordered these dresses that were supposed to arrive to the, I think it was to the venue, and they didn't because the plows weren't out and they had to wait till the snow melted. And it was just unforeseen circumstances. But at the end of the day, that wedding vendor who sold the dresses wasn't to blame, but I bet they were getting an earful. And as a result of that circumstance, we were hearing about it from the client who we had worked with and done his wedding party, where he was like, You better send this stuff next day because all the dresses and didn't show up because of whatever. And it's like, if you really want me to throw this in the mail, I can, but you have to understand then there are circumstances out of my control. But these are things that the client isn't thinking about. They're not understanding circumstances from a business point of view. They're only looking at circumstances from a consumer point of view, which oftentimes puts you in a tough spot and puts you in a position where you would love to be able to play the blame game with the circumstances. So, speaking of being in a position, put yourself in the position where you're working with someone and they're gonna something's not going according to plan. And maybe you don't have to imagine this. Maybe this has happened to you. It's happened to me, where you're dealing with something with someone and they are blaming the circumstances that they are dealing with. And ultimately, I don't care because I paid for something and I want it. And that's how your clients feel. They don't care. They paid for something and they want it, they don't care. But when you blame your circumstances, it makes you sound like you're not smart, it makes you sound like you're not capable, it makes you sound like you're reacting, like you're reactionary versus proactive. Because you are, and the fact that you're blaming circumstances just underscores that, by the way. They're thinking, why don't they have a process? Yeah, or why don't they have a plan? They have a plan for this. Like, is this the only time that shipping's ever been delayed? I doubt it. Like, why are they acting like this doesn't happen? It makes you sound like you're unprepared, like you're unqualified. It makes you sound stupid to do this. This just happened to me the other day where I ordered a couple of uh blankets. Cozy, very cozy. Were they Lolas? Yes, they were. Nice. A couple of Lolas, and I wanted my Lolas. It's starting to get cold over here. I want my Lolas. And the Do you use blankets? Madeline does, yeah. Same. Yeah, I don't use them, but they are some good conversation. This is a very and you know who really likes the Lolas. My dogs love. To lick them. Oh, yeah. It's just constant. So that's why we had to buy new Lolos, was because they would not stop licking the other one. And it just was gross. Like, I don't like this. This is disgusting. So I ordered Lola blankets and I ordered a few of them. I ordered a few because I got two for Christmas presents.

SPEAKER_00 22:22

Oh.

SPEAKER_01 22:23

I hope you don't draw my name. I don't want to. I wouldn't give that to you. If I draw Anna's name, you're getting another Lola. I hate to tell you. We have a lot of blankets at the house. Well, you're gonna get one more if I draw her name. Once you get a water bottle, give us that too. But that's the last thing we need is more water bottles and more blankets in our house. Yeah, I'll throw in a hydro jug. Yeah. That ought to be fun. But I ordered these Lola blankets. And you know, sorry to put you on blast, Lola, but it was you guys took way, way too damn long to ship this thing. And it was three blankets. So it's three things. And when you when you pay for shipping yourself, by the way, we ship everything to our customers complimentary and we ship it priority. That's just what we do. It's just like an added service of working with us. If if we have to ship anything, we're not going to nickel and dime you for the shipping. But when the consumer is paying for their own shipping and they're choosing priority, and then you don't get on it to ship it. It had been, they, they at first quoted three to five business days shipping. So on the sixth business day, I hadn't received an update and I looked at it and it said preparing your order. So I emailed and I said, Where is this? They said, Oh yeah, sometimes it takes a little bit longer, just depending on volume, especially during a holiday sale. Like it was a canned email. It wasn't a holiday sale. That was just the email that they have auto-generated. So then I allowed it to take another two days. And then I said, Okay, I need to actually hear from a person. What when are these gonna ship? Because if they're not gonna ship soon, I'm gonna just go buy another blanket somewhere so I can have it. Oh yeah, you and they sent the same exact thing, but then within probably an hour of them sending that, they shipped. So I think they had forgotten about them and then they remembered. But by the time it shipped, it had been over 10 business days when the previous estimate was three to five. So that's just completely unacceptable. And they were blaming a sale of which I had not participated. They're blaming something, and it made them sound stupid. And they were not aware of what the other person said. So when they changed the timeline, it's like everyone seemed like an idiot over there. As a as a business owner, one of our jobs that we've identified within the last decade has been it is in our job description to try to remove or at least try to best navigate unforeseen circumstances so we don't end up in situations where we're needing to blame things because they didn't go well. What that looks like in our business is especially relating to rush orders, there are certain timelines that we just will not take on. Not because it's impossible for us to get it done, but because if something takes a day longer or something gets pulled for, you know, inspection or whatever and takes a couple extra days, we're in the position where we're having to have all sorts of additional conversations with the client. We're, you know, worst case scenario, having to refund them if it was something we took on and it was contingent. But that is your job. The buck does stop with you as a business owner, is you need to position yourself in a way where you are as prepared as possible for circumstances that could go wrong. And if there's a risk or if there's a track record of things going wrong, it's your responsibility to weigh the pros and the cons and to decide if that risk is worth taking. And listen, I get it. It's not fair. It's not fair that it's not my fault. And the book stops with me, but it's that's how it goes, dude. We've had we've had times in our business just based on uh supply chain stuff, shipping stuff, where we have and we have had to turn away the equivalent of hundreds of thousands of dollars because we just were not feeling comfortable in committing to these things on the front end. Because we don't want to be in a position where we're we're not doing what we say we're gonna do. And that has a monetary impact negatively on us, but weigh the pros and cons. What's worse? Making the money and then having to refund it after you've paid for everything and dealt with all of the frustration. That's worse. I don't know what the other option is, but that's the worst thing. Or not making the money in the first place. First one. The first one is a lot worse. It's a lot worse. And if you care about what you do and you operate your business with integrity, like that, that is kind of our policy is like, listen, if we don't do what we say we're gonna do, you're getting your money back. That's what you get to have. And so we're in this position often where if things have changed, or if there's circumstances that we know could end up being a situation, it's like we're just not gonna take that on in the first place to avoid circumstances that could be unforeseen down the road. Just to be totally transparent, we're actually in the process of sort of reimagining the conversation we have on the front end of the shipping. I mentioned that we ship complimentary, we do it priority. I mean, we do it priority because of course it's it's best, it's faster, it is more expensive, but also that way we can all track it and see what's going on. But we we were just out of the woods on the situation where there were, this is not the first time this has happened either, by the way, where there was something that happened in shipping, it caused a panic on the recipient side. But once we ship, we don't have it, we have absolutely no control over this thing. And the only person who can make any specifications as far as delivery is the recipient. So we're in the process now, we need to figure out on the front end what are we gonna tell the recipient? Basically removing ourselves from responsibility of this, we do have a draft email that gets sent that does this to some extent, but it's an email situation. So if there's any sort of an in-person conversation, what are we gonna tell the recipient of the package before we ship when we know we're gonna ship that will just tell them that if there's an issue in shipping, I don't want you to call me on Sunday morning freaking out. That's what happened. Don't call me. It's not my problem. It's UPS. If UPS is changing the situation, it's on them. We were also in a situation earlier on this year where we ended up having to place blame because there was literally nothing else to say, but it was so uncomfortable because there was nothing else to say. It was a situation where that we had worked with somebody who was getting married, he was going out of town. For whatever reason, his thing got pulled in US customs and it just sat. Just sat for weeks. For weeks. We had had plenty of time to hit this deadline, get this out of our hands. This was by no stretch of the imagination a rush order. No. When something sits somewhere for three weeks, well, the clock's ticking on it now. Yeah. And it just sat and we waited as long as we could because we were operating from a place of we want to give good news. We don't want to be in a situation where we're where we're coming to a conversation and seeming out of control. Well, and the other thing that's the worst is when you present a problem without a solution. And that's what we were trying to avoid. We didn't have a solution and we couldn't, I mean, there it's impossible to contact anyone from customs. They they tell you that it could take up to 30 business days or more. Right. Which quite literally that's their update, quite literally is absolutely no information, up to 30 days or more. Or more. Huh?

SPEAKER_00 29:55

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_01 29:55

Like so it could take could be anywhere less than 30 or any number above 30. And then once you hit 30, could be more. Could be, could be any number of days more. So, you know, imagine being in that situation. And I I am just, I refuse to present people with a problem without a solution. And if we don't have a solution, the only thing we can do is just kind of wait and hope things get worked out. Well, unfortunately, he beat us to the punch. He emailed, he was just curious. Hey, what's going on? Just a reminder of my deadline, which I hate. I hate when people feel the need to remind me of their deadline. Oh, thank you for the reminder. Yeah, I would have missed your deadline otherwise. We wouldn't have. Never missed a deadline. That's true to this day. But anyway, this guy had reached out and was asking for status report. So we kind of waited on the email because we were just hoping to see some traction at some point. Maybe today's the day. We finally had to send him an email and just say, hey, listen, here's exactly what is going on. Here's exactly why we didn't tell you sooner. And if for whatever reason this day comes and we are not in touch with you, then we are issuing a refund in full. We are also giving you the things when they do arrive. If they arrive after you've left for your wedding, we're overnight shipping. Like, here are all the things that we're gonna do. But at this point, it is totally out of our hands and there's just nothing we can do about it. It's time for you to find a plan B to this suit. His wedding was in Hawaii, and between us, I was kind of hoping that I would be able to take get it and then take it there myself. I'll take it, no problem. Uh, but you know, just to be totally honest, he did respond to the email, and it was A, gracious. B, his one piece of feedback was he said he was a little disappointed that he wasn't made aware of the possibility of needing a plan B a little bit sooner, which, you know, we did in our follow-up to him, we said, we understand, like we totally get it. You're totally justified in feeling that way. But between all of us here, the reason we didn't share that is because there's no point in sounding the alarm bells before it's too soon. It was a very intentional decision that we made not to tell him that he needed a plan B until we actually thought it was a very likely possibility he might. And up until that point, it was not it was not a likely possibility. Well, fast forward, everything moved and he got it on time. And I didn't get to go to Hawaii. And Kenny didn't get it. We had to deliver, we had to deliver to it here. So all that to say it's whale boy winter. It's whale boy. Absolutely. I know the whale boy winter continues, and we're not talking about uh is there a slender whale? I doubt it. I mean, I guess you're you would be considered slender comparing yourself to a whale. Yeah, I would be one hell of a hot whale. Hottie alert. Look at that, look at the blowhole on that one. Look at that sperm whale. That's a real thing, right? A sperm whale? Yeah, yeah, it's all crazy. Yeah, I know. Who is naming these things? Teenage boy. Oh, sperm whale. Look at ridiculous. Can't we do can't we do better than this? Come on, let's do better than this. Uh, so when is it? Okay, this is what we when anytime we're doing our coaching or in our mastermind, it's like we you know, do this, do this, do this. But when can I not? But when is the time where I don't have to do it? Okay, but there are. I'm never gonna say it's good to blame people when this happens. So good. When is it okay to acknowledge? We just told a story of when we were forced, we really felt like our hands are tied, and we were like, listen, we gotta just give this guy the info. And and there have been so many other times though, where we do have a client freaking out. It's always a groom. We have a groom freaking out about something, and we are giving zero information because we have the information and we know that if we give them certain information, they're going to misinterpret it and think that things are much tighter, much closer, much more close to missing a deadline than they really are. That's usually how we operate with a need-to-know basis perspective. Nice to know, not always nice to know. No. And even though you think it might be nice to know, that was something we worked through with one of our uh people on our team. And she she is so sweet and she's so nice. And she she thinks she thought she was being helpful in providing people with information she thought they'd be happy to hear. Then we had to explain to her like, well, what happens when they get extra information is their mind then is allowed to spiral and they're now thinking of worst-case scenarios. And now we're in a position where we're putting fires out that are not fires. This this in the scenario, one of the scenarios was there was uh a client who reached out. They didn't live in town, they but they have a house here. They were in town, they reached out, hey, is my order done yet? And she said, you know, in in a very sweet way, well, the good news is like we've got uh half of your stuff done, and then the other half is scheduled to arrive soon. So then this person is emailing us, like, when can I come in and grab the stuff that's ready? We're we're like in the airport. Like, when can I come in on Saturday to pick it up? It's like we're not gonna see you on Saturday. You can't come in on Saturday. We're also not gonna do a partial delivery. Well, why not? My stuff's gonna wait till yeah, we're gonna wait till it's all done. And it's like, you know, thanks, but no thanks. Nice to know is not always nice to know. And there, it's not always good to give people all the information. So there are times when it is okay to not necessarily pass the blame, but be honest about the situation you're in. That's reserved for the worst case scenario. You know your business better than your clients do. You know your business, your specific business better than I know your specific business. And I I only could think of two. I could think of two, two uh examples of of times where it might be okay to do this. We were in our story that just now talking about uh when we felt like we needed to share with this guy about finding a plan B. That I guess would be another situation where it felt like it was really important to fill him in, but that does sort of fall under this first category. So it can be helpful to share responsibility. There's a really nice way to do it. I it's like when people invite you. I invite you to take a seat. I invite you, I invite you to exit. So you're kicking me out. Got it. Like we're at a restaurant. We are going to invite you to continue with your evening. It's like, oh, you're kicking us out of the table because we've been sitting here. I would invite you to leave the bar after you've finished that drink, sir. I would invite you to, uh, we've called you a taxi cab to take you home, sir. All right. So it's it's okay to share responsibility, I think. If resolution has been reached already, perfect. Or if resolution is actively being reached, as was the example of what sort of happened with us, and you're simply providing information and context as an assurance that this isn't going to happen again and that this is, you know, an unforeseen circumstance. I wouldn't use that word unforeseen circumstance, because now you're blaming again. But if you're simply providing information and context for something, as listen, here's what's going on. I'm shooting straight. The resolutions already happened, or it's almost about to happen. And here's what just FYI, here's what's going on. When we're in a position where we are communicating essentially bad news, like we were to this in this example we just talked through, when we had to tell him it's been in customs, it hasn't moved, it's been there for weeks. Time for a plan B. Part of our resolution was us giving more. Oh, absolutely. Because whose fault isn't this? Ours. We didn't have anything to do with it. Even when this did land on time, fit perfectly, got it to him before he left. We told him when the dust settles on the wedding, we want you to come back in. We're gonna do a complimentary sport coat for you on us because we can only imagine how stressed you were in this process. When you run a business that more often, much, much, much more often than than less often, goes perfectly and goes well, you have the ability to do that because your margins are good and you and you have a little bit of flexibility. But that is one of those things. When you when you reach that point where you where you do have to share blame, share responsibility with something, oftentimes the resolution is if you want to, you know, operate your business with integrity and and maintain a really high Google star rating or whatever your your goals are, maybe you might have to give a little bit more. And if you don't care about your Google rating, and if you don't care about integrity, you just wasted your time listening to this episode because you should be blaming everyone for everything all the time. And you should never offer anything to anyone. So, you know, lucky you, but that's not how we do things. The other way that it's, I think it's probably fine to share responsibility or to pass a little bit of blame is if the issue was actually big enough and it prompted you to make a real change, like fire someone or fire a vendor or stop working with a manufacturer or something, and you've implemented that change. That person is gone. We no longer work with that company. You know, we are so sorry that this happened to you. Uh, you know, the the employee responsible, that was their last day. I've heard that before. And it doesn't help the situation. It's it's not a resolution, but it at least helps them understand like, okay, they're taking this very seriously and they stand behind what they do. Yeah. And both of these scenarios in which it's okay to pass blame or give responsibility or force responsibility on somebody is after it's over and the dust has settled. And yeah, it ultimately is like once it's done and fixed and all better, then it's okay. So, really, I guess what we're saying is it's never okay to be passing blame if you haven't come to the finish line with this client. And I'm really sorry that you didn't like this episode of Appointment Only. And I'm I'm happy to share with you, Danny no longer is the co-host of this of this podcast. See, that's a perfect, perfect way to do it. That is perfect. And doesn't that make you feel good? Doesn't that make you feel he was actually stealing from the company? He was stealing your time. And I'm I'm sorry about you for bringing this to light. Yeah. But it is one of those things where blame plays no part. I wish you could have heard what was going on in your gym. This is one of those. Editor, you have got to keep that in. He's rippeting. How do you even do that? It's one of those things where blame plays no part in the business at any step of the process until it is over. And only then, if you are able to accompany putting the blame on somebody with some additionally good news, is it appropriate to bring up and bring your client in on? I think that's the general consensus here is as the business owner, the buck stops with you. Your client, your customer, they don't care. They don't care. It doesn't matter how true. They don't care why. They only care that they just don't. And as much as they should care, as much as it would be very much a humanizing thing for them to see things from your perspective and understand where you're coming from and understand that in your business there are things that are out of your hands, just like good clients will. And good clients will, but just like in their business, there are things that are out of their control, too. When they're in that situation, they won't approach it that way. So it's your job, knowing that the buckstock stops with you, to take full responsibility from point A to point Z. And there could end up being a point in time where you fill them in on a little bit of what had been going on behind the scenes and why this isn't normally how things go, but only if resolution is being reached or has been reached. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. They don't care why, they just care that. And once it's done, if you say, you know, next time we do this, it's gonna go a lot smoother. I, you know, here's what was going on, and just I really appreciate you seeing this through. Again, this is a this is one of those, one of those things where you can apologize. You can apologize for how they felt, you can apologize for the added time, but you don't need to be so subs like so beholden to them. You can say thank you so much for understanding and for your flexibility. I really appreciate this. I'm really sorry you you didn't have the best experience. And next time we do this, it's not gonna go like this. I can promise you that. Which is why we often come to the table with giving something of our own, is to prove that on the front end rather than rely on them to use us again. Because we're we're we're not stupid. We know if if somebody has an experience like that guy who got married in Hawaii and his stuff sits in customs and he's freaking out and he needs to find a plan B and all of that, we know he's never gonna come back, which is why we offered him up a jacket. Yeah. Well, and ultimately, listen, trying to take his negative experience and turn it into a positive. Right. And when we say that, it's it's not usually your fault. It's true. I mean, the way we do things, we have a timeline that we say we're not going to do anything in within, but we also have all over our information. Like we really recommend you come in as soon as you're thinking about it. We don't want you kicking the can down the road. We don't want you procrastinating this. We don't want you only giving us this timeline. Like as soon as you're even thinking about it, we need you in. And that just does not happen. So when things are going wrong, it doesn't matter if we got An extra couple weeks on top of the timeline we recommend. If they would have come in sooner, we wouldn't be dealing with it. If we really want to peel the onion and find some blame to put, it's on them for not coming in sooner. But you can't do that. You can't run a business blaming the person who's working with you and spending money. Talk about gaslighting. Well, this is you know what? This is actually your fault. And I know it feels like it's my fault, but listen, you're to blame. This is on you. This is on you. And I do know b business owners, we have a lot of pride in what we do. We love what we do, but we also have a tendency to get defensive and to try to pass blame and to think that, well, no, no, you don't. Uh uh, not me. I would just encourage you, as the business owner, as the person who the buck stops with, to just recognize the fact that you are gonna be the one who is being looked to to fix it, to provide the solution. And the person who is looking to you to do that for them, they don't care about whatever else is going on behind the scenes. They don't care why. They just care that. Is it fair? No, it's not. But if running a business were easy, everyone would do it. And that's why not everybody can do it. Is because not everybody's cut out for it. It can be thankless, it can be frustrating, it can cause you to stay up at night. But the flip side is true too, where it it helps you run a business that and live a life that so many people just dream of. Let's get into some bad business advice. Yes, please. Here's something you've heard. And we're gonna break it down. You have to spend money to make money. Is that bad advice? I don't know that that's blanket statement, bad advice. I don't think it is blanket statement, bad advice, but I think what that idea often translates into in the small business space ends up having really negative impacts on that business. Meaning, I think small businesses, when they s when they're starting out, before they understand profitability and some of like the core pillars of running a healthy business, they start to spend money on things that don't they they're unsure of the ROI and they're spending more money than they need to on things like a website, right? Or the branding or a location. Yes, I agree. I think I think that is true in some ways. You do have to spend money to make money, like for your products, for example, or you know, sometimes for a location. You do need a location, you don't need the best location. You you do need a logo, but you don't need to pay someone ten thousand dollars to give you a logo. You do need a website, but you don't need to hire a web designer to build it. And also when you're just starting, you don't need to pay for advertising. Yeah, despite what many people will say. You don't. You don't need to. You just don't. Yes. I so on the surface, you do have to spend some money. And there does come a point in time in your business as you're growing it where there are opportunities out there. And we've said there's no shortage of opportunities, there's no shortage of things you can spend money to do. Right. There is a time when you're when you're growing your business where you do have to spend some money to do some really strategic things, but you don't have to start out writing blank checks in order to start a business or grow a business or run a business. That often is is poison to the business because you never end up in a situation where you are properly managing your money. Oftentimes, business owners start to spend money before they even understand what they have to spend. Yes. And it could end up being too late really quickly. There are cost-effective ways to get things done, there are inexpensive ways to get things done. And yes, depending on your priorities, right? You can afford certain things, but just because you can doesn't mean you should. And yes, you have to spend a little money to run a business, but you don't have to be irresponsible with your spending in order to make any money. Here's something you shouldn't spend money on when you're a new business swag. Oh yeah. Don't buy swag. Here's the exact scenario. And I understand it because I've been there before. You get your new logo. That's so exciting. You're so excited about it. Do you know how easy it is to upload that logo onto any type of product? Coffee mugs, hats, t-shirts, notebooks, pens. Don't buy swag. Don't buy swag right away. If you want to buy swag later, go for it. Don't buy swag. Oh, I'm gonna let's come up with a time frame. If you're a new business, don't buy swag in your first year. How about that? Okay. And I understand that some swag, like if if you're running a car dealership and you want your employees to have the same polo, well, yeah, you're gonna you need to buy those license plate things. Yeah. There are things that you are going to buy, but you don't need beanies with your car dealership's logo on it that you're giving or selling to buy. But I'm assuming so, yes, true. But with swag, that's assuming that they can't afford it. Okay. But if you can afford it, you have to, you have it's kind of like when you borrow money to a family member or friend, they say you're supposed to think of it like a gift. Yeah, you're never getting it back. That's a bonus. Same thing with swag. Don't buy it assuming it's gonna sell. If you're buying it because it's an added value to your business and it's really important for you to do your business, then that's very different. But if you're if you think that your swag is gonna generate revenue, there we go. It probably like it won't. 100%. It won't. It might generate a little bit of revenue, but you at the the volume you have to order a lot of this stuff, it's you're just not gonna make it back. If you want to buy swag and you can afford it, do it with the plan of giving it away or using it as a value add to your product. Don't buy it with the anticipation of that ROIing for you because it's not going to. Yes. So that would be an example of you know, you got to spend money to make money. And that's that is absolutely a temptation. I mean, I've listened I've been on Zazzle with my brand new logo. We got them this week. You've already been on Zazzle trying to order shit. What did you get? No, I didn't order V3. Okay. But I I believe me, I understand the temptation where you're you're online, you're looking at things. And then once you're in this website, Vistaprint, perfect example. Once you're on VistaPrint and you're you're doing new uh business cards, for example, you know, gotta have business cards. But you know what? I do have mugs and pens, and I was gonna say mouse pads. No one has those anymore. But it's like you don't need that stuff, right? You have to spend money to make money. In theory, yes, I agree with the idea, but there's also things you you know, we talk about time affluence and and your your time is valuable. There are things that you can do. Let's just use website as an example really quick, and then we can call it. You don't have to be a web wizard to design a simple, effective website. By the way, these days, apparently we haven't used it, but apparently AI can build a very professional-looking, like super functional website for a new business or a new brand in like 90 seconds. So if you're a starting out company, you don't need to pay a web designer to design your very first website with all the bells and whistles and spend tens of everything's code, you know. Yeah, and custom code and all that. If you really just need a website because you're trying to make your first sales, that's not what you should be spending your money on right away. And neither are mouse pads. Right. Thank you so much for coming to this appointment. Did you did you like anything about what we said? Did you hate anything about what we said? Do you agree with it? Have you ever blamed someone or something? How'd that go? But your client wasn't really that thankful. I went out of business because I bought too much swag. Blame the swag. Hashtag blame the swag. Yeah, hashtag blame game. Yeah, absolutely. Go ahead and blame the swag on that one. Uh, but if you we'd love to hear your thoughts on the episode. Send us a DM. Let us know if you have any business questions we can answer right here on the pod. Please don't forget to subscribe, like, rate, review, five star only. And uh thank you so much for showing up for your appointment. We don't blame you for showing up. Why wouldn't you? Why wouldn't you show up? I'm not gonna blame you for that. I can't fault you for it. Thank you so much. We'll see you for your next one. And that's that. Today's appointment is over. This has been appointment only. Your time is valuable, and we're very appreciative of you spending some of it with us. Thanks for showing up. Thanks for being on time. Thanks for being receptive to what we have to say. And if you have a question you'd like us to answer here on appointment only, please shoot us a DM. We would love to hear from you. We would also appreciate a five star review. We'd love if you'd follow along, follow us here however you're hearing this, and follow us on Instagram at appointment only pod.