Developing the Skill of Intuition | Conversation #3

*This Conversation is a deeper dive on the Companion Meditation Episode!*

Have you ever ignored a gut feeling and later wished you hadn’t?

This week we’re exploring one of the most misunderstood skills we have: intuition.

In this conversation, we explore what intuition really is, why we so often ignore it, and how learning to notice your body’s signals can help you make decisions with greater clarity, confidence, and peace.

Along the way, we discuss:

• The human capacity for developing senses beyond our 5 physical senses, and how that is connected to true power. 
• Stages of development related to morality and how the highest development depends upon a strong intuition.
• Why our body often recognizes truth before our conscious mind does
• How to tell the difference between fear, anxiety, and intuition
• Why ignoring red flags teaches us to stop trusting ourselves and how to heal.
• A practical exercise you can begin using today to strengthen your intuition

Whether you’re making a major life decision, healing from past experiences, or simply wanting to feel more grounded, this episode offers practical tools for reconnecting with the wisdom that’s already within you.

If you haven’t already, we recommend listening to Monday’s guided meditation first, as it lays the foundation for many of the ideas discussed here.

If this episode resonated with you, would you help us grow this community by sharing it with someone who might benefit?

After years of helping people heal as a trauma and addiction therapist and wellness coach, Amy started the Greater Peace Podcast with one goal: to make these life-changing skills available to as many people as possible.

Every share helps that mission reach one more person searching for greater peace.

*Subscribe to the Greater Peace Podcast for new episodes every Monday and Wednesday.*

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Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:04

Hello, everyone. Welcome to the Greater Peace Podcast. I'm Ryan Lindstrom. I have no idea what we're talking about today, but I'm here with someone who knows. And that would be my wife, clinical mental health counselor, Amy Lindstrom.

SPEAKER_02 0:19

Hi, everybody. And this is Oh, did you already say you're Ryan Lindstrom? Okay, good.

SPEAKER_00 0:24

And I'm still me.

SPEAKER_02 0:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 0:27

So here's how it works. On Mondays, a short episode is posted where Amy introduces the topic for the week and guides a brief meditation. On Wednesdays, a follow-up episode is posted, a longer conversation episode, which is what this is. And Amy shows up prepared for a deep dive on the topic, and I just show up. And that's what we're doing right now. So it's all you. I'm done. That's my whole job is over now for the day.

SPEAKER_02 0:58

Well, Ryan, I think, is I Ryan was the missing piece in every time I ever wanted to do a podcast because you are not just, you're just here and showing up. It's like uh it's trying to teach it to you, but also your way of processing it. That's the feedback, is that everybody's like, oh my gosh, like the questions you ask, the way that you engage with it all is just as important as anything I can say. So we're good.

SPEAKER_00 1:27

Well, I may have been the missing piece, but you were the missing greater piece.

SPEAKER_01 1:32

Oh my gosh.

SPEAKER_00 1:35

Oh, that was good, huh? That was so uh anything else?

SPEAKER_02 1:42

Yeah, we rearranged a little bit. You like the black curtains. Uh always trying to figure out what is the best way to do it to make it the easiest on the back end. And we thought we'd go this route to help with lighting a little bit, and we may go back or we may keep it. We don't know.

SPEAKER_00 2:00

We may fire the production team entirely.

SPEAKER_02 2:03

Uh-oh.

SPEAKER_00 2:04

Which is me and me and me.

SPEAKER_02 2:06

Yeah. And her. Exactly. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 2:09

Anyway, whatever.

SPEAKER_02 2:10

Yep. All right. Are you ready? I'm ready.

SPEAKER_00 2:13

What are we talking about?

SPEAKER_02 2:14

All right. So this week our topic is intuition.

SPEAKER_00 2:19

Yeah, that's a good one.

SPEAKER_02 2:20

Yes, it's intuition as a skill. I think that a lot of people sometimes we just think we have it, and we do. Um, but I think there's a quote, there's a book called Um The Gift of Fear by Gavin De Becker. That when I used to be the director of sexual assault victim services for Utah County, and when I would, um, it was a book that we read then because it's it's about like trusting your own instincts, but he said, uh, it was either that in a pot or in a podcast I listened to him, he said, um, humans are the only creature on earth with the gift of fear as like an instinct, and we will override that gift for acceptance. Uh and so, and so I think that um, and he has numbers of stories where people felt it and knew it, red flags. We're gonna talk all about that. Um, I think the most important thing about this is I would just suggest if you have not listened to Monday's episode, listen to Monday's episode. What you don't know and what you don't get to do here, but you can do it after, is I did the wise person meditation.

SPEAKER_00 3:35

Oh, cool. That's a good one.

SPEAKER_02 3:38

It is such a good one.

SPEAKER_00 3:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 3:40

It's the reason why I felt like this goes together so well is because sometimes like we can talk like about the abstract of true nature, true self. But if you've never really had any concrete experience with that part of you, it can be very difficult to connect to. A lot of times, like in Buddhism, they talk a lot about like if you um that your job is to just be. It's in a lot of like in the Tao as well, but um in the Tao Te Ching, but it says that if you are constantly trying to do something or produce something, you're just creating another identity, an ego. It's performative, right? But our job is to be, but it's a difficult thing to do. So that meditation is such a powerful one for helping you connect to something higher that exists within yourself. Uh, so it's super meaningful. Definitely do it. And the great thing is um that I stress in it is you know, Ryan is more of an abstract analytical type thinker. When I'm not abstract analytics, I'm not abstract, sorry, analytical thinker.

SPEAKER_00 4:55

I try sometimes to be abstract.

SPEAKER_02 4:58

Yeah, when I try to do parts work with him, it's like something just shuts down. Or um when I was like, well, yeah, you just visualize this, you do this, and and it's like, what do you mean? And so I think it took you the first couple of times, it just didn't connect. I remember the third time you did it, you were like, Oh my gosh. The I remember exactly what you said because you said it was like I realized that the wisdom that I have always been searching for, or what I needed, was always within me to begin with. And you just figured out how to connect to it.

SPEAKER_00 5:34

That's the thing about that meditation, is you don't see it coming.

SPEAKER_02 5:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 5:38

And then it's like, whammo. Yeah, here you go.

SPEAKER_02 5:41

And I've done it multiple times. Um, my daughter-in-law Bailey talked about it as well because she loves to do it and she's done it multiple times. But one of the times that she was in the class helping me, she didn't necessarily participate on the same level because she said that she was so excited for it. There's a specific part in the meditation where the energy in the room just completely changes. And it is such a cool feeling. And she just wanted to be present to feel that, knowing it was coming. But but also every time she does it, I do it often, a very small version on my way to work, because Amy Lindstrom, I'll get all in my head and whatever else, but I I remember on my way to work to um uh that I'm the instrument here, you know, and so I use it to connect to that. So anyway, um, so that kind of builds a foundation for the true self. So as I shared in that meditation as well, there's a in a training that I was doing where Richard Schwartz was teaching internal family systems, which is a therapy um tool that is used to do parts work, which as you remember, we've talked about how it's like you are the accumulation of every version of yourself you've ever been. So it's working with those different parts, which are also the conditioned mind or thoughts that we have. There is a lot of um, like what he was telling us there is that when you are connected to your true self, you always, always know what to do next. And so that's pretty powerful, right? If if there is some way that you can connect to something within yourself and always know how to proceed, it doesn't, I think that that's the thing is it doesn't mean you're always gonna get it right.

SPEAKER_00 7:38

Hey, if you can know how to proceed uh one time more than you did before you did it, then it adds forth too.

SPEAKER_02 7:44

Yeah, really, really. So um there's a couple of different things that I was thinking to do and want to teach the skill that I teach on intuition because I think for me, all of this was learned. I didn't I didn't learn it growing up, and so I love creating practical skills.

SPEAKER_00 8:02

It wasn't intuitive.

SPEAKER_02 8:03

Intuitive. There you go. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 8:05

Hey, I've and I just want to cut in and say honestly, if you're listening to this uh and you and you can or you would be willing to, it would be well worth pausing and doing the meditation. It's short and it just even if it's not clicking for you, it it it does something.

SPEAKER_02 8:24

Yeah, and I I tried to stress in that episode that it's like it's okay, do what you can in it. It some people are better at visualizing. There are some people who cannot visualize at all. And if you can't, that's okay. I give you some some um tools for trying to just find it. It's like it's okay if you don't do it. It's a new muscle in a lot of ways. So you just keep trying. Because your last time doing it, something really connected for you as well.

SPEAKER_00 8:56

Well, it asks questions, you're asking yourself questions that you you may not have really thought about, like on purpose ever. Some of them.

SPEAKER_01 9:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 9:05

And so, yeah, I it can the the thing the first time that I found was, and if you're listening to the meditation, this is a maybe a a a little pointer, is she would ask a question or to come up with something in my mind, and before I could settle on anything, she was moved on to the next question. So, I mean, if it fits, don't hesitate to like if she asks a question, hit the pause or whatever, so you've got a minute to settle on at least something, and then the next question's more meaningful, and you have a different, a different view of of you by the time it's over in some way, and then this episode will maybe become that much more applicable or powerful.

SPEAKER_02 9:47

Yeah, and I I do think like I like you gave me that feedback, and it's like it's totally true when you're leading it, you just are clipping straight through, you know. And so you're you your feedback in that was invaluable because that's what I tried to give a lot of space between. Now, there's going to be some people who it's too much space, that's okay, that's why you just breathe. Uh, for other people, they're going to want to stay in it, which I think I said throughout it repeatedly that it's like it's okay, you can come back and do this. Or as Ryan said, push pause, but it's something use again and again. The other thing is that if you are trying to practice meditation but doing it on your own, you get frustrated or lost in it a little bit. You can always go back to uh like one of the other meditation episodes, rewind the last 10, 15 minutes of the episode, depending which one, and just do the meditation um every day if you want to. Just use it as a guide until until you're um more capable of doing it on your own. That's fine. Meditation is it is hard when you're stuck with the idea in your mind that there's a right way to do it.

SPEAKER_00 11:03

Yeah. So one thing that that you always say that helps probably with the meditation thing is when like you'll ask someone a question in a meditation or just in a class or whatever, and you say, Don't don't use your brain, don't think at all. Just when I ask the question, immediately say whatever comes up.

SPEAKER_01 11:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 11:23

And a lot of people are can't figure out how what they say is connected to the question and then it is. But yeah, that that can help. Because sometimes I I sit and search for the answer. You know, it's like, well, what is the answer? And it's like that's not the way to do it. It's just to you your your soul knows the answer and it'll bring it right up if you look at it.

SPEAKER_02 11:43

Yes. And exactly that just segues us right back into where we were with intuition because it's like when I'm doing work with people, their thinking brain is trying to figure out why they're doing what they're doing. And we don't need the thinking brain. We need to go deeper than that. And so oftentimes it's connecting to the deeper intuition. Where when I ask people, like, how old did you feel? It's like, I just want the first thing that comes into your mind, and they'll be like, 11, why? That's so weird. It's like, okay, good. Now I'm gonna ask, like, what memory is connected to that? And and it's just like, well, I don't know how this makes sense. It's like it does, it doesn't matter. Like it's the one that I want. Your brain knows. Yeah, there's so much in the research with with EMDR that like our brains want to heal. And so it knows the way. In EMDR, there's always worry, people will be worried that they're gonna do it wrong. It's like there's no wrong way. Just move forward. You you will get it, you know. So let's go into intuition a little bit. I think that um trying to figure out exactly how I want to start into this. Well, I think that one of the things that is helpful. Thanks, Ryan.

SPEAKER_00 13:01

You're welcome.

SPEAKER_02 13:02

I think that one of the most impactful books that I've ever read is The Seat of the Soul by Gary Zukov.

SPEAKER_00 13:10

The Seat?

SPEAKER_02 13:11

The Seat of the Soul, yes. Yes, I looked at it right over your shoulder. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 13:18

No, I think I say that because you've probably said that title a hundred times to me. You think it's the seed with a D. Yeah. Because I'm half deaf, but not the Trevor Burrus.

SPEAKER_02 13:27

Well, and because we're in Utah and we don't really say our T's very well.

SPEAKER_00 13:31

Maybe. Maybe that's part of it.

SPEAKER_02 13:33

Yeah. Um okay. So um one of the things that he brings up in the very beginning is like evolution. Now, I love evolution, and it's so funny that I do because I remember dreading when I went back to school taking biology because I was never good at biology. I was never good at anything uh school related. But I geeked out.

SPEAKER_00 14:00

Yeah, you did.

SPEAKER_02 14:01

And I think that I mean, at one point I had a Charles Darwin shirt. But it's like I loved, loved the idea. And it's not the same like monkey walking into human. It's not even that. It's that all things are related. That's his idea of evolution, that all things are related, it's just the degree to which you are related. And then on and on from that. But one of the things that I love about it is the idea that when you're under great stress, you can use that stress to like it's that stress that helps us to evolve and grow, to develop greater abilities than we had before. And so, you know, which is why it's permanently a part of my arms has evolved, but it's just a reminder to me always that it's like use the things that you are experiencing to grow, to become resilient.

SPEAKER_00 14:58

Which can be hard because a lot of times you may not want to be experiencing them.

SPEAKER_02 15:02

Yeah, no, you don't want to.

SPEAKER_00 15:03

Yeah, you're like trying to turn or turn away from it, not turn into it.

SPEAKER_02 15:06

Yeah. Yeah, it's very, very hard. It's not, it's not like I don't think that they're I just don't even think it's real that you get to a point where it's like this really hard thing is happening to me and I'm so thankful for it. Well, you're lying. Like that's not real.

SPEAKER_00 15:20

That's good. I'm glad you said that.

SPEAKER_02 15:22

I just don't think it is, but I remember a time in my life when I was like that. It was after Dawson died. But I think now I look back at it and it was like after Dawson died, it was like I would people would ask me how I was doing. Well, people have a hard time sitting with you and hard stuff. And so in the beginning, it was, oh, but Amy, aren't you so glad that you know he's free from pain? Amy, aren't you so glad that you know where he is? All these kind of things that it's like it's so well-intentioned because we really grief is hard and it's hard to sit with somebody in it, and we immediately want to say the right thing to make somebody feel better. The greatest thing in the whole world is to realize there's nothing you can say to make anybody feel better. Just sit with them. Yeah, you know, and so I think that was the thing with that situation in my life is that I was going through something super hard. And um people would ask me and then, oh, but aren't you so so I started learning to say, um, they would say, How are you doing? And I would be like, It is so hard and I can't breathe and whatever, but you know, but I know where he is, you know, and I would just condition anything. Yes, it's like, but so then I would immediately say that. And what was their response? Oh my gosh, you're so strong, I could never do that. Well, that's feeding my little conditioned mind that needed to feel like she was strong.

SPEAKER_01 16:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 16:50

You know, and so grieving, I think it took me 13 years before I actually turned into it and realized that it takes an insane amount of strength to feel your feelings.

SPEAKER_00 17:01

Wow. That's crazy. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 17:04

Because you didn't know?

SPEAKER_00 17:06

No, no.

SPEAKER_02 17:07

Yeah. Yeah, there was always this feeling that it was ungrieved that I'd tucked it away somewhere.

SPEAKER_00 17:14

That's amazing. Because I yeah.

SPEAKER_02 17:16

Yeah, well, and it was somebody else's story that I was reading of her losing her husband, and she was just fully into it, like in the pain, sharing the pain. She didn't feel the need to buffer it. And I just realized she has more courage than I do. Not because, you know, like in a comparison way, it just was like, wow, it takes real courage and strength to feel your feelings. And that has been something that over the last few years, when when there has been hard emotions that come up, I want to uh there's been a couple of things where I want to be mad because then I don't feel powerless. Angry anger is a powerful emotion, right? And so I want to do that. And so yeah, it's just, but instead of feeling the anger is just like being in it led to uh change because I felt the emotions and then they moved through, and I came out on the other side a different version of myself, which is like evolution, but in way shorter span than physical evolution.

SPEAKER_00 18:28

Yeah, and so so so part of that, yeah, you 13 years later you thought you had had grieved and then found out that there was stuff left. But but I think you I mean every as you grow older and have different experiences in life, you change and you're aware of new things and you know you experience whatever part of that grief is still hanging out there just waiting for you to be ready to handle it.

SPEAKER_01 18:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 18:56

And then so yeah, that I mean it's not like your son dies, you grieve for a year, and now you're done grieving and life goes on. Yeah. You're you'll you grieve until you die. I mean, to some degree.

SPEAKER_02 19:08

Well, and it becomes the thing when you're going through grief like that, that it's like it transforms absolutely everything. It puts a new set of glasses on on what really matters.

SPEAKER_00 19:20

It's one of those things you were just talking about. It's stress that you may not want, but you gotta use it.

SPEAKER_02 19:25

Yeah. But it's I mean, and grief is the one thing that none of us are getting out of here without experiencing. And I think you and I would both say that it's like, and anybody else who has experienced profound grief that I've ever talked to is like, this is this was my wake-up point. It's like totally. So it leads to a couple of different things, um, which um kind of getting into it's like, you know, with evolution, the idea of evolution. So Gary Zukov talks about in um The Seat of the Soul, he's talking about how um there's physical evolution, right? Where it's like survival of the fittest, it's who can outlast the greatest, most physically powerful evolved beings are those who can control their own environment and the environment of others. Right? Yeah. So that's humans on the earth as it is right now. Okay. But then he talked about how, but there's something different because if we were as humans to talk about who is the most evolved among us, who would we say?

SPEAKER_00 20:36

Who would you say? I'm getting a drink I can't say right now.

SPEAKER_02 20:40

With your pink cup.

SPEAKER_00 20:41

I'm busy.

SPEAKER_02 20:46

Okay. I don't know who one day, one day we're gonna have merch, pink cups. Just kidding.

SPEAKER_00 20:53

Just do the put some duct tape on that.

SPEAKER_02 20:57

Yep. All right then.

SPEAKER_00 20:58

Okay, so who is the most devolved among he does is there an answer to this that you haven't?

SPEAKER_02 21:02

Well, do you think that it is somebody who is cruel and horrible?

SPEAKER_00 21:07

Likely not.

SPEAKER_02 21:08

Probably not, right? It's like, okay, some may say Jesus. Anyone who uh like sacrifices, uh Martin Luther King, um Gandhi, Nelson Mandela, people who like were absolutely true to themselves and to the protection of other people, even at great consequence. I mean, there's a million people that we can list in this. Uh the Buddha is like walking, teaching people, spends the rest of his life teaching people how what suffer that suffering is inherent in life and how to help free yourself from suffering. You know? And so I think there's so many examples of that, and we would call them more evolved. But now isn't that backwards? Because if we're talking evolution, then it is the one who can survive in control.

SPEAKER_00 22:07

Yeah, who can come out on top.

SPEAKER_02 22:08

Yes. So this as not the one lifting from the bottom. Yeah. So Gary Zukov explains this as physical power. Our human form, if we are an intelligence that exists at some point outside of this body, either before this world or after it, if that is true, if there's a higher intelligence that is in us, if there's a divine spark, any of that kind of stuff, well then we are in a human experience, and the human body is a creature on this planet who seeks power over others. This I love the um imagery of the cross for this, because I think that it's like um the only vertical connection we have is between us and our higher power, whatever that is, you know, and then horizontally is all the rest of us. But when we want physical power over somebody else, we arrange ourselves hierarchical hierarchically.

SPEAKER_00 23:09

I think you got it.

unknown 23:10

Okay then.

SPEAKER_02 23:11

We arrange ourselves in a hierarchy. Hey, that's that, yeah. Yes, okay. So we we arrange ourselves in that way, it becomes pecking order. I need to be more successful than you, I need to have more than you, all those kind of things, right? But that's physical power. But what he's talking about is okay, but then the most evolved humans are those humans who have developed some other sense. Like humans have five senses. We are evolving to have more than just that, a multi-sensory system, intuition being a part of that. Some deeper sense of knowing. I think understanding polybagel theory helps you know that. You know, when you see a deer, uh, if you've ever seen a deer or an animal get startled and they're out in the woods, what it they hear a crack of a stick, what do they do?

SPEAKER_00 24:07

They either freeze or they bolt.

SPEAKER_02 24:09

Yeah. Fight or flight, right?

SPEAKER_00 24:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 24:12

The exact same system. They have the exact same, they're they're a deer will, their head will flip up, their ears get trying to hear more.

SPEAKER_00 24:22

Or if you're a crow, you go let everybody in the forest know somebody's here.

SPEAKER_02 24:27

Yes. But if you have, it's like if it's a deer, their eyes get bigger. Every muscle in their body tenses, and they can sense that something's there and they leave, right? So it's like uh this nervous system that we all have, the polyvagal nerve, the parasympathetic nervous system, all that kind of stuff, right? Sciencey sciencey. It's but all of that is the evolution of a physical thing, but but there's multi-senses being able to lean into those to trust what is beyond what we can see, smell, touch, hear, but something deeper. I mean, it's yeah, you know, it is the growth of like spirituality. There's a lot of people right now who are seeking spirituality in whatever form it is, it's incredible if it connects people to their truer nature because the outcome of that will always be love and compassion. I think as I went back and, you know, it's like I love to study um like the life of Jesus or, you know, all of these other spiritual leaders. But the thing that I love is the thing that everybody teaches is love and compassion. When we were in Hawaii and ran into Swami G in a random little store in Ko, or where we oh, we were in Kona. And little Hindu teacher comes around the corner and just starts talking to me about stuff that I've been thinking for a long time, but I hadn't ever vocalized. And and drawing all these lines, it was just incredible. I was like, oh, like, you know.

SPEAKER_00 26:10

Is that his name or did you make up Swami G?

SPEAKER_02 26:12

It's no, that's his name.

SPEAKER_00 26:13

Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_02 26:15

But he he was drawing all these connections between all spiritual practices and saying, now what is the meaning? It's like love and compassion is everything. It's like, yes, why did Jesus talk so clearly about love and compassion? Why has every spiritual leader ever talked about love and compassion with absolute clarity? Because it is the thing that unlocks our soul, right? So that exceeds or goes beyond physical evolution. That taps into real power, right? To lay down your life. I think, you know, it's like we can look at um people who really are committed to serving the people of their country and they're willing to put themselves in harm's way. There's police officers who every day go out and they put on a bulletproof vest. And it's like those who go out, they put on a bulletproof vest, but it's like learning way more that it's like the mental load of every day seeing the ugly underbelly of humanity is a lot. And I used to be a victim's advocate, and so I I saw that in there too, you know, with them. But I think that it's like they put themselves at great risk. Um, and there's a heavy cost in it, but they do it because something in them compels to do that for humanity.

SPEAKER_01 27:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 27:38

Right? Not not all of them for sure, you know, but those who do, it comes from that deeper sense of like something in them seeks a higher good, right? Okay. So if we are talking about all of that, then there is the physical power, which is um what we seek as humans, and then there is this deeper drive toward what we want. Okay. And that is true power.

SPEAKER_00 28:12

Yep.

SPEAKER_02 28:13

Does that make sense? So, like multi-sensory, that's what we're looking for.

SPEAKER_00 28:18

Well, one is like power over people and things, and the other is power over yourself, I guess, to some degree.

SPEAKER_02 28:24

Yeah, yeah. I but with also um yeah, power over, I mean, I would say power over ego. Let's uh we'll just say ego. Ego is like false identities that we create. Like people will love me and think I'm more important if I have such and such job or such and such house or such and such whatever, and all of that is just fake.

SPEAKER_01 28:48

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 28:49

You know, you don't take any of that with you. It doesn't, it really doesn't matter. If we're building up all of those things, just we're avoiding where there's true value, which is just in every one of us.

SPEAKER_00 29:02

Aaron Powell Okay, so true power, this this is maybe a sidebar. Um, but uh so I took a philosophy class twice actually. And I and I yeah, anyway. Was it a struggle? Uh no, it wasn't. I I enjoyed it, but you know, I was 40 and life got in the way. Yeah. And so I quit and then started anyway. Um but there was a well geez, I just pulled a U. Now I'm trying to remember what I was even talking about. Oh, virtue. He it the the the the discussion was what is virtue? Like if a table is a virtuous table, what does that mean about the table? And it's it's uh a virtuous table is a table that is being used and was created as a table. It's um I can't even remember how to explain it. It's you it's it's being true 100% to what you are.

SPEAKER_02 30:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 30:02

And that is virtuous. Like a virtuous Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 30:06

I love it. Because then it goes back to like when we've talked about before that it is like, okay, if you are true to who you want to be in this world on a deep level, not having stuff, whatever, it's like it's all empty. Because you're always in the state of I'll be happy when, and then you get there and learn that you can't have happiness then either. So it must be because you need more, but it's not even any of that, right? So so it's like when you are true to who you want to be in this world, that's what we're going to learn about today, like how to feel that. That's integrity. When you have integrity, you have peace. That's a natural consequence. You cannot have peace without integrity. The two go hand in hand. When you live consistently according to that integrity, feeling it by the sense of peace, that builds virtue. Which and virtue is true power. Essentially equals power. It is it is power because it is you understanding that you are beyond any of this. Like you are more than the job you have, the roles you play, you know. When we attach to a role that we play, like even it's hard because even as a parent, it's like I am a mom. It's like, it's true, I'm a mother, but I have temporarily the role of mother in different forms as it goes. If I take that on as my identity when my kids get old and I need to let go as they age, and it's important for them to experience um independence, I won't let them because their independence comes at the cost of my identity.

SPEAKER_00 31:51

Yep. That can happen.

SPEAKER_02 31:54

Yeah. And so it's like understanding who we are individually separate from that always gives us just the freedom to constantly be in a state of presenting that or exercising that in a way that is beneficial to all humans. Otherwise, I am anxiously trying to earn value or um worth in this world and therefore uh never in my truest nature always a performative goodness.

SPEAKER_00 32:27

And it's just so this plagues everybody in the world to some degree. Why? I mean, why what's behind that? Why is it that that's that's the way we all are? You know, you can't just wake up and be like, hey, today I'm me. You know what I mean? Instead of today I'm I'm this person at work, and then I gotta go play on the softball team, and then I gotta go coach. You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_02 32:49

Yeah. I mean, this it's like there's layers to it, but I would-I guess. Yes, it's the conditioned mind.

SPEAKER_00 32:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 32:58

And the conditioned mind everybody has, which means nothing is going wrong.

SPEAKER_00 33:05

Everything's if everybody's subject to it, then it must be Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 33:08

Everything is going exactly as it needs to go in each of our individual lives, and we will wake up to it at some point. And it is almost always the hardest experiences that we go through that wakes us up. You know?

SPEAKER_00 33:22

Yeah. So um so I'm remembering a little bit about uh what it what it came out, the definition of virtue is, and it was just when something is being what it was created to be to the maximum amount possible. Yeah. Then that is virtue. And so there's so many 10,000 veils that just keep getting in the way of the stuff.

SPEAKER_02 33:49

Yeah, but I but I really love I love that definition, though, of it because it's like well, okay, so then is there this expectation that our job is to be that all the time? That there's a point that we will meet that we could be there all the time and never stray from it, and that's it. It's like, no, I just don't think so in this lifetime.

SPEAKER_01 34:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 34:16

I just don't think so. Um, because the problem is is that new okay, I will say the only way that is possible is if our life freezes at some point and we do not continue in any way. Because if we do continue on, then we're gonna learn more.

SPEAKER_01 34:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 34:34

So it's pretty much when you die.

SPEAKER_02 34:36

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. And then who knows what's after that? I mean, it's like we like to think that we know because humans have an absolute fear of death. And so if we can define it afterwards, but the thing that's beautiful is is living in the I don't know. I don't know.

SPEAKER_00 34:54

Yeah, just to just embracing it and being like, I don't know, and I don't care.

SPEAKER_02 34:58

It's not a fearful thing, but I think that I trust the energy which we can call God, source, universe, whatever. I think, however, I see that I think that I can I trust it entirely. And, you know, I don't know. That's that goes off in the weeds a little bit, but I think that sometimes we should sometimes we should totally have a conversation about faith crisis, not because at any point is it oh like I don't want to introduce somebody into it, but I do have to say uh it can feel like crisis because it's built on things that you're nervous about or fearful of or whatever, but it transfers into something deeper, which kind of touches on what one of the things that I would have to mention in when we're talking about intuition.

SPEAKER_00 35:47

Because my job here today is to derail you.

SPEAKER_02 35:51

No, you're not derailing it all. No, but see, that's the thing is you just bridge the gap from the one to the other, you know, perfectly. Yeah, without even knowing. So evolution. I I will add one thing with the evolution. One of the things that Zary go uh Zary Gukov that's amazing. Uh Gary Zukov, one of the things that he said is he said that um he talked about temptation as a gift. And it threw me sideways because growing up being taught temptation is like the worst, right? Yeah. Um, but what he explained it as is temptation is your last point of consciousness at a crossroads between will you choose physical power or will you choose true power? It's your last point of consciousness.

SPEAKER_00 36:46

It's just the point of decision.

SPEAKER_02 36:48

It's you're aware I can make this decision or I can make this decision. Well, now if you have the uh vocabulary of calling it, is this physical power? It's temporary. Maybe in some ways not even real. Yeah. Or is it true power? And true power will always, always be to choose to be true to who you want to be. If it costs your piece, it's too expensive. And then as you were sharing, it's like virtue.

SPEAKER_00 37:16

Your virtue grows because you it does being what you were created to be. Or and most of the time you gotta figure out what you were created to be first, I guess.

SPEAKER_02 37:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 37:26

Figure out what you were not created to be.

SPEAKER_02 37:28

Or you don't figure it out.

SPEAKER_00 37:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 37:30

Because then you then you're just putting on a new ego or a new persona that you are thinking that you want to become. It's like just be, just be.

SPEAKER_00 37:39

It's all the so the whole point of us then is is it's how how do you know? How do you know uh just be? Well, that's where the intuition comes in. You you you tune in and you just don't question and you go.

SPEAKER_02 37:53

Yeah, I mean, you just you're always moving one. I mean, number one, if you can lose the idea that you have no worth and value and that you have to prove or earn it, that if you can lose that, you're good. Because I mean, you're just good. Because and it's not in a narcissistic or egotistical way, it is in a humble way. And people think that humility is like when I hear people put themselves down in a funny way and call that humility, it's like, no, humility is having absolute knowledge of your worth and value. And if that is true for you, that is true for everybody else, and you treat them as such. That's like true humility, right? So like when he is saying that when you get to the crossroads, it's your last point of consciousness before you choose. One of the other things that he teaches in it in the book is that um that he was asking, like, you know, uh, that it's like the level of temptation that you experience, the struggle, the level of the struggle is equal to the power that comes to you when you choose true power. So um he when he was talking about, I he mentions Jesus in it, and he said a lot of people ask, was Jesus ever really tempted? And he goes, Well, look at what came next. You know, and that's a really clear view to the degree which it was a struggle. And so it's just an interesting thing to think about. It's like for every one of us, when I watch people wrestle with overcoming addiction, and in the moments where they are just sure they're gonna fail, that there's no possible way they can do this. That is it's those moments where they dig in, use their skills, do something else, not because they have to, because you they have to be a good person, whatever, but because they are choosing it for themselves. Because I will always tell them you can choose to do the other. Obviously, you've done it a bit a million times. But you the important point is to know in there that addiction does not mean a loss of agency. You have the choice. It's very difficult, depending on what the addiction is, the substance and whatever. But there we have to believe that there's an ability to overcome. There there has to be. And so when somebody truly digs in and chooses to overcome it, it's like the true beginning of the end of the hold it has on them. And the power that comes, it's like, man, the people that I have worked with that have worked so hard and who they become, their countenance changes, their energy changes, everything changes, but it's it's not anything other than they're just waking up to themselves.

SPEAKER_00 40:56

Yep, yep.

SPEAKER_02 40:57

You know, and living true to that instead of behind all the veils, you know. I mean, there's still veils, we all have them. Um, okay, so when you were talking about, when we were talking about a minute ago, um one of the things that might be helpful to understand is there is there's multiple models of the brain's development around morality. So there's one by Kohlberg. Kohlberg and Fowler are very similar, but I think that they are very simple to understand and super helpful to like understanding the development and the way that things are going. So, okay. Um, stage one, we cannot leave pre-age eight uh just because of the development or where we are. But there are some people who will stay in that stage forever. That stage is essentially the simplest way to say is like obey or pay. I have to follow the rules, or I will be punished.

SPEAKER_00 42:03

And that's everybody, at least until they're eight.

SPEAKER_02 42:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 42:05

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 42:06

Yeah, it's an important part of development. None of these stages that the first two stages are not bad. They're necessary, but staying in them has a cost.

SPEAKER_00 42:16

Yeah, they're required, in fact.

SPEAKER_02 42:18

Yes, they are. And so eventually you've got obey or pay. You think when you're a kid, it's like you don't want uh, it's like if you, you know, do something that you're not supposed to do, you're gonna get in trouble, right?

SPEAKER_01 42:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 42:32

Um, it's very, very fear-based. It's also very, if you're talking in the framework around Jesus' teachings, it would be like letter of the law.

SPEAKER_01 42:43

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 42:44

It's that kind of. It's also, I've heard it referred to, it's like the cosmic vending machine or the just world theory, which is if I do good, good things will happen. If I do bad, bad things will happen.

SPEAKER_01 42:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 42:56

Which then is very, very confusing. And this is one of the things that moves you out of that stage, is that it's like, well, what if you're doing all the things and you're trying very hard to be a good person, do all the good things, but you struggle with infertility.

SPEAKER_00 43:13

You obeyed, but you still had to pay.

SPEAKER_02 43:15

Yeah, you still, or you uh lose a child, or your spouse cheats on you, or something happens, you know, it's like at some point you go, wait a minute, you know.

SPEAKER_00 43:27

This model isn't working. This isn't working. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 43:30

Yeah. Then also in development, you branch out, and really this will happen a lot around teenage um years, because this one is where your brain develops into belonging. I obey to belong. I I need to be like the group in order to be accepted by the group.

SPEAKER_00 43:50

Yeah, so your motivations are are evolving, I guess you would say.

SPEAKER_02 43:54

They are. You're it's but it's still fear based, it's still letter of the law. It is not just. Deep morality-based necessarily because you're more concerned about not belonging than you are about standing.

SPEAKER_00 44:07

Your reason is external to who you are.

SPEAKER_02 44:09

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. So, um, so that's stage two. Then there's stage three. Now, Kohlberg said this stage is a stage that the majority of people will never get to. I think Kohlberg came up with this model a long time ago. I think this is part of the evolution of people developing multi-sensory. You can see a lot of people starting to go, wait, you know, and pushing against things a little bit. Um, and that is uh stage three is self-authority. Now, this isn't I can do what I want. This is you are led by some sort of internal moral compass that is like the true self. You can call it um with the divine within, um Christ consciousness, anything like that, where it's like you are very like capable of making choices and you have a deeper connection to whatever morality is. This doesn't necessarily mean, you know, it's like I know atheists who live with a l really high morality, but also it's fascinating to me because I guess because I grew up developing morality with a fear of God as the center of it. I'm just always fascinated by when people choose morality without that fear. Like, how is that different? And and just curious because I I just love it. I love learning why people do what they do and all human experience is just super interesting to me, you know. But I think that it is something where it's like self-authority is you are led by something deeper, your intuition.

SPEAKER_00 45:58

Well, so there's two sides of that coin, right?

SPEAKER_02 46:00

So Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 46:02

I I think the reason you would come into self-authority is because you decide to take on self-responsibility. Not that that's a term, but it is now. Because I mean uh okay, so it's you're not you're not subbing out your decisions as much. Like some people may join a church and do whatever the church says to put that responsibility on the church.

SPEAKER_02 46:36

Like if I just check all the boxes right there.

SPEAKER_00 46:38

If I do what they tell me to do, then I'm okay. And so they are leaning on the authority of the church. So they're giving away the sir that some of their authority, um, but they're also they would only do that, or maybe they would only do that if they can give away some of the responsibility with it. Yeah. And so and so the more you come into self-authority, the more you're like, you know what, I'm gonna take responsibility for my choices for every single one of them. Yeah. And I will make that decision. I you know, I guess it it's it's trust, right? You're gonna you decide to trust your own intuition.

SPEAKER_02 47:19

Yes. But also, I mean, I think I would say that it is like, okay, there it's like I can almost feel people pushing back a little bit. Oh, I know.

SPEAKER_00 47:28

That's why when I was saying it on the other hand, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 47:30

It's so hard to explain. Yeah, it no, not saying that's what I do, I'm just saying, explain with it because it's like there are there are there are both, and if you see, it's like there can be both the the people who um, you know, there are people who live in religion and follow and check all the boxes anxiously, and will like my cute, sweet little grandmas, who are the most incredible, loving, amazing women, and at the end of their lives, they were terrified that they didn't do enough. And I think that that is a more anxious level, right? Yeah. Um, which is just sad because I just think, oh my gosh, if they could just rest in the knowledge that it's like well, it's based more in fear.

SPEAKER_00 48:21

Yeah, it's kind of like stage one and two.

SPEAKER_02 48:23

But there's also people who get to stage three and can really truly see the benefit of belonging to a community. I think one that I think of is Thomas McConkie. Um, I mean, I'm putting on him that he's in a stage three, but from everything I've learned from him, he's very, very good with self-direction. Um, but he loves going to church because he said that he he loves the idea. It was, uh he said, I just think there's something so beautiful about meeting together with your neighbors and singing songs about Jesus, you know? And I'm like, yeah, it's just different. This is a this is a hard topic to discuss because you can feel a defensiveness that comes up. And maybe we are also aware of that because it's like we felt that as well. Like if anybody was saying anything like that. And it isn't that, there's nothing that is less than or whatever. It's just that there is something that is possible where it is like, um, as you were talking about it, it just made me think it's like the trust that you have, the intuition is almost like if we're talking in a religious frame of mind, there's no longer a mediator between you and the divine.

SPEAKER_01 49:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 49:38

You know, well, that your intuition is, as Richard Rohr says, falling upward. I mean, I'll just say, because we could go deep into this and maybe it's a discussion to have at some point, but Richard Rohr, his book Falling Upward, is incredible, where he talks about the purpose and the point of the development into like more self-authority where where you learn your intuition is a place where you commune with God, you know, um, is how he says it. Now, there's also people who are not religious at all or don't know, or you know, they they lean more towards, I mean, there's I mean, one, Buddhism is a spiritual practice. It is not an organized religion. There are people who love Jesus and Buddha. I love the teachings of Jesus and the Buddha, and I'm reading the Quran and I love the Dao Te Ching. You know, it's like anything, just give it, you know. I love, I love all of it. But but it is so stage three is um the what is it, the letter of the law and the nature?

SPEAKER_01 50:48

Spirit.

SPEAKER_02 50:49

Spirit, yes. The spirit of the law is level three, where um uh the Dalai Lama said, where you know the you know the rules so well you are wise enough to know when to break them. You know, it's like the laws of the land. When are there laws of the land that you need to break because they are unjust to humanity? And your concern over justice is higher than your concern over obedience to the laws that you feel are wrong.

SPEAKER_00 51:21

Yeah. So so I guess to go back and dig a deeper hole for myself.

SPEAKER_01 51:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 51:25

So what um I I guess to to summarize, and part of the problem is you can't you can't tell one a story or propose a situation without one person without having two million people think you're talking about them. Yeah. And so that's out of my control. But what but but what I I guess to summarize the thing I was talking about with joining a church earlier is you you're you're perfectly willing to let the church be the middleman between you and God. If that's if your intent is to follow God, you're like, okay, uh, rather than go directly to God and decide what you're gonna do, um, you you're happy to have the church talk to God and find out and then tell you. And that way you're able to place some of the responsibility for well, if that's wrong, well, that's not my fault, because I put, you know, the that's what the church told me to do. So you give them some of your authority by hiring them to be the middleman between you and God, but part of that reason you might do that is so that you don't have the responsibility for making the wrong choice because the church told you to do it. Now yeah, anyway.

SPEAKER_02 52:36

Yeah, no, it's good though, because it's like, okay, is are there people who are gonna be a little like about it, you know, or whatever? It's like, yeah, maybe, but it's okay because if it doesn't fit you, we're not talking about you.

SPEAKER_01 52:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 52:50

But there will be people who hear that and resonate with it and go, yeah, I can see that or whatever. And and that's okay because the thing is, is that there are seven billion plus people on this planet, and it's there's that many ways to live life, to understand the divine.

SPEAKER_00 53:10

Yeah. So so so I guess what I would say is that is what I see as an example of um self-authority. Like like you are saying, you're it's taking that authority to yourself and saying, okay, I'm gonna decide when it's okay to break the rules or not. You know what I mean? It's it's you're not farming out any of the responsibility for your choices to anyone else.

SPEAKER_02 53:35

You are responsible for you may take guidance, you may l uh you may take guidance or whatever, but ultimately you are going to take it all into counsel within your own self, your intuition, you know, or whatever, and make a decision based on your own situation that is best for you. Trevor Burrus, Jr.

SPEAKER_00 53:54

Well, and that and that not only can that be scary, that's gotta be scary because now all of a sudden maybe half the decisions you've made every day of your life are no longer decisions you that you want to make in it. Yeah. You know, you want to make them differently now because you're taking that authority on yourself to make that decision based on who you are and what you know. And so you're also taking on the responsibility and you you might have to change some things that a lot of people around you may not like. Yeah. You know what I mean? Or you may not like. I don't know.

SPEAKER_02 54:24

Yeah. Well, and if you, you know, it's like I think naturally anytime you're going to talk about moral development, religion is going to come into it.

SPEAKER_00 54:31

Um that's why I just threw it on the fire right off the bat.

SPEAKER_02 54:34

I know, good job. Uh but I think that there is also, you know, it's like I don't want to speak for or to other than what I've seen and just my own fascination with. It's like, you know, agnosticism, it's like just the, I don't know. I don't know. Um uh nihilism is nothing is real, and that's a that's a hard place to be in somewhere that you don't want people to stay. Or um, but then there's like atheism that is just like, you know, like I there's nothing, I I mean, this is super reductive, but it's just kind of like there's no evidence that there is God. And that's their lived experience and where they have found peace, but then also living from that. But to people who do believe in God, that feels offensive, upsetting, whatever, where instead it's like, but isn't it what if we get curious about what is it though that makes you be a kind person and not a heathen, you know, or whatever? It's like, well, then let's learn from that because there is way more similarity between all of us than there are differences.

SPEAKER_00 55:42

So so it sounds to me like stage three is really about um your motivations.

SPEAKER_02 55:47

Yeah, I think that if I was going to sum up stage three, I would say stage three is absolute connection to your own internal compass. And you do things or intuition because of who you are.

SPEAKER_00 56:04

It's almost almost like you you find out more who you are and you allow that person to govern your decisions.

SPEAKER_02 56:11

Right. So if you are looking at the stories of Jesus as we know, it's like Jesus is pushing against the religious law, which is very much similar to societal laws at his time, um, standing up against things, but why? You know, and it's because he saw corruption and what they were doing with, you know, scripture, whatever, the name of God, whatever. And so he stood up for what he felt was right to great consequences.

SPEAKER_01 56:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 56:44

Right? But is there a possibility that he could have just fell in line or didn't say anything, not rocked the boat?

SPEAKER_00 56:54

It's like not if he was gonna be who he was.

SPEAKER_02 56:57

Right. And I think the thing is, is that it's like, no, I think the same thing with Martin Luther King. Is there any way Martin Luther King in his nature could have not rocked the boat, not stood up for people the way that he did? No. There's no possible way. It was just exactly who he was and what his purpose was, and he had to do it.

SPEAKER_00 57:17

So so it it seems like it would be difficult to talk about a topic that uh disp that explains self-authority without hitting a nerve somewhere, because that's where things get hard.

SPEAKER_02 57:33

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 57:34

That's where you're faced with the hardest decisions of your life.

SPEAKER_02 57:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 57:39

Or maybe I don't know. You you you're you're pushing through the hard stuff to know yourself.

SPEAKER_02 57:47

Well, yeah, because I think that that's the reason why Kohlberg was saying that the that so few people will ever reach stage three because uh because the cost of getting there is belonging. And that's a survival instinct, instinct. Yeah. Uh if you are in uh high demand religion um or in situations where it's like you're completely cast out or your family rejects you because of it, those are some high stakes. It's like to me, I always say that it's like stage three is difficult to get to because of the cost of stage 2.5. And it's not an easy flip a switch. It's not one thing. In one area of my life, I might be getting there with self-authority, but uh, but also there's a million more places. It's it's just the work of it, of fully knowing that I can choose for myself in every possible situation, and that I know that I will always choose what is the right thing to do, according to my moral compass, which is to live with love and compassion and kindness to other people. So when we talk about these things, when we're saying what we're saying, just know that it's like it's from our very own limited life view experience. We do not in any way want to offend, we we absolutely want to learn from people, but it's also we can only speak to the limits for which we know and understand and have learned. And so, you know, this is a sensitive topic, but moral development also is is it's not even about spirituality and religion, as it is just the brain's capacity, our individual capacity for growth and development in this life, right? So, so um uh it's easy to see what stage two belonging is. We call it peer pressure.

SPEAKER_00 59:50

Yeah, we all recognize that because we're all there.

SPEAKER_02 59:53

Yeah, but okay, then whether you're an adult or a teenager or whatever, you also know that there is sometimes, and this will segue us into the skill because there's also the um, you know that there is sometimes when you are with your friends, adults or younger, and something is happening that just makes you kind of ugh, I don't like that. Like, and and you either go along or you stand up and say, Hey guys, I don't think this is a very good idea.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:32

At the risk of being cast out, at the risk of them now thinking you're is whatever, you know, and and kicking you out of the group and judging you and and being mean to you, it is a very, very difficult thing to do.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:46

Yeah, the the cost of moving into three is everything you've had that was one and two.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:52

But you get to the point at some point when the cost of staying in the in the group, surrounded by that energy, is much higher than the cost of the fear of being alone.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:09

Yeah, yeah, I mean it it's like it's it's like I was saying at the beginning, with grief, you process it and move through it at whatever rate you are ready to do it. Um it's the same thing we were talking about in the in the last episode about um how to how to not react. It's yeah, you do this and then you stop and question and make a decision.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:30

Yeah. Well, let me give you just another framework then with moral development. I would say stage one and stage two of moral development means the conditioned mind is still very much active.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:45

You know, the old ways of thinking, the fearful mind is very much in control. When you are in stage three, stage three is true self in control. If we're gonna draw a line between the two, right, that makes sense. You know your worth and your value. You know that people may disagree with you, be upset at you, uh chastise you, alienate you, cancel you, whatever. You know that they might, but but it would cost your peace not to do the thing.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:19

You've peeled back enough veils that you can see to some to some degree of clarity, you can see from who you really are.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:28

Yeah. I mean uh it's different in Buddhism. Buddhism, when they use conscious, it's like, but there's different there's different words, like semantics is a is a tricky thing because what somebody might call a soul, other people may say, I don't believe in the soul, but they believe in some intelligence or something, you know, or or whatever. And so it's difficult.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:48

I think honestly, I'm gonna cut you off again. I think the English language is the biggest barrier to communication between people.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:55

Yes. All languages. It is because it's it's just freaking words and concepts.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:01

And one word has eight billion different uh different definitions. Yeah. I mean, everybody sees something different in their head when they hear a word than normal words.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:11

Yes, and this is why often you will hear me say, um, when I am talking about uh my own personal belief in a higher power. If I say higher power, I say universe, I say the source, I say divine. Because when I say God, so often that word is so laden with definitions and restrictions. And I say it to somebody who is in one area and they have a clear view of what that is, but what I'm talking about may be different from that. But also one of my favorite concepts ever was Karen Armstrong, who studies all religion, is absolutely fantastic. I think her book is a case for God. It's so good. And she said in it, no, she was being interviewed about it, and they asked, How do you define God? And she said, Oh, God cannot be defined. Because the second we do, we've created a false idol. Because our brains cannot even comprehend all that God is.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:15

Yeah, you've assumed a lot of stuff.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:16

Yes, it's like God can only be experienced, and that's where I love all the different views of like, well, there's a way in which if I believe that you are created by God, then there's a way in which you reflect the divine that I don't know yet. And so I want to know it. To me, this is what it is to be created in the image of God, not just like a physical. To me, it's if I can meet every single person I know and be in nature and look at all of creation with the idea that I am meeting the divine in a way that I've never met it through this person. Even if that person is a difficult person, I lose the need to judge. It's just, it's like there's something here. Like I know that that is your identity, the identity. That's but that's like my own knowing and belief, right? I don't want to put that on anybody else if that's not where they're at. But for me, that has allowed the concept that is that I would call God to expand over and over and over. Then then it's like Richard Rohr says that God is in everything and absolutely nothing. And it's like it's like it's like God is all. And um, yeah, there's so much more with that where it's like that this is where I'm doing pretty good at derailing and everything. Yeah, but it's it's good though because it all connects back, so it's fine. Like if you if we were going somewhere, I'd be like, Hey, but it all applies.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:59

Dude, quit.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:00

Quit quit pushing us off. Um, here's intuition, this is why it's important, here's the skill. Well, that's goodbye.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:14

I mean, we're on track. It's just how deep do you want to go? How many side, you know.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:19

Yeah, but it's like if okay, just like having you as part of the conversation, if I speak alone, some people will connect to it. If you join with me because you are on the other side, somewhere in the middle of there, more people will connect in some way that will be meaningful to them. And in all of the explanation that we are giving, there's probably, you know, maybe uh all of it but is a disconnecting, but then we said something that went, oh, and connected it for them. And so it's worth having the discussion. Um if if only to inspire curiosity.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:03

You know, curiosity is the energy of the soul, of the spirit, of the true self, uh, creativity, um, curiosity, compassion, all those things are the truest nature that we have. So if we could be curious more, I mean, the problem is with human brains is you give a concept to something. If I if I call a bird a bird, my brain closes a door and is like, I know all I need to know, that's a bird. Labeled done, move on. And I lose curiosity. Yeah, that's why when you see people, I mean, especially Down syndrome, when you see people who have Down syndrome children, they will talk about it's like everything is new all over again. A flower isn't just a flower, it's something else. It's so beautiful or whatever, because you know, uh you live in the energy of a little person who just absolutely never loses that childlike curiosity about everything. When you have children, when you, you know, I remember when we were at the hospital at primary children's once with the twins, and I am like, go, go, go, go. Okay, now we gotta do this, now we gotta do this. And Jake wanted to stop and see the big, huge water fountain. And I was just like, nope, we gotta go. And you were like, you know what? If we stop, it might take us two minutes and it will make his whole day, and it will really not matter, you know, and and we stopped, and he was just like wondering awe and thought it was so cool, and then he was done. And it really was two minutes, but it's like, but we stopped and pointed out things with him and saw it, you know, and it's just like doing that is such a good thing for us. Um, and so when we label things, we put it in a box and we restrict our our brain no longer feels like our brain likes to have all the information and believe that it has all the information. That's why confirmation bias is a thing. Because it's like if you say something to me and I'm learning something new, my brain does not like that feeling. So it will take pick up everything that you're saying that aligns with something I already know, or that I can bend into something I already know. And then I will believe that and the rest of it isn't real. And anything that challenges me, if there's too much that challenges me, I may just go, You're an idiot, you don't know what you're talking about. You know. And so the challenge is like learning. I think that's why I love learning so much, is because it's like I don't have to judge, I can just remain open and just learn. It's all these, every single book is somebody else's interpretation of the chaos that is this life, you know, and it's just it's just awesome to learn from other people. So let's talk about the skill then of intuition. So um uh let's see. First, there's a quote that I have by Eckhart Tolle that says, become aware of the silent but powerful sense of presence. There is one certain criterion by which you can measure your success in this practice, the degree of peace that you can feel within. So I'll read it again because to save the rewinders. I rewind all the time when I'm listening to podcasts. Wait, wait, wait.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:18

It's because you listen to them at 10 speed.

SPEAKER_02 1:10:19

I know. 10. It's gone up from this last time. Okay, become aware of the silent but powerful sense of presence. There is one certain criterion by which you can measure your success in this practice, the degree of peace you that you feel within. So let's talk about how you feel the peace within, right? How do you make decisions? How do you do whatever? So, like, how do you discern all the things? So I want you to think of, and you guys do this exercise as well on your own, but think of a time in your life, and you don't have to say it out loud, just think of a time in your life where there was a decision that you had to make and you knew what you needed to do, even if it was gonna be hard. You knew that it was the one you had to make. Sometimes if you can find one that even when it was gonna be hard, it took courage in it, took facing a fear in it, those are the most powerful, easier ones to connect with. So find a memory of a time when you had a deep sense of, I know that this is what I need to do.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:25

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 1:11:26

You got one?

SPEAKER_01 1:11:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:11:27

Okay. So just sit with the feeling of it.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:32

This I don't want to do that. It was dumb. Yeah, I think I didn't like it.

SPEAKER_02 1:11:36

It's fine. It's fine. I want you to feel sit with the feeling of that knowing. I know it before you did it. Yeah, yeah. The moment of clarity. What does it feel like? Like where do you feel it in your body?

SPEAKER_00 1:11:51

I you know, you've asked that. I don't know how to answer that.

SPEAKER_02 1:11:54

I um my chest, maybe. Okay, what does it feel like to you?

SPEAKER_00 1:12:01

Well, for me, it feels like I don't have a choice.

SPEAKER_02 1:12:05

So you.

SPEAKER_00 1:12:06

It feels like if I get inspiration that says I should do this, and I go, well, I know that's truth now, but I don't want to do that. So I feel like, well, the choice has been made. I don't have a choice because I'm gonna follow the inspiration. Yeah. So I've made that choice already that when I feel it, I'm gonna follow it, which makes me which makes me feel like I already gave up my choice on this matter.

SPEAKER_02 1:12:31

Okay, can you think of a time when you did make a choice?

SPEAKER_00 1:12:36

That I I did make a choice when I felt it.

SPEAKER_02 1:12:39

Think about the shop.

SPEAKER_00 1:12:41

No. What about falling off a cliff?

SPEAKER_02 1:12:44

No.

SPEAKER_00 1:12:45

No? Okay.

SPEAKER_02 1:12:46

Oh, yeah, falling off a cliff. Okay. Ryan fell off a cliff last year, almost died.

SPEAKER_00 1:12:50

It was a cliff. It was anyway, so yeah. So what do you want to know?

SPEAKER_02 1:12:55

Okay. So well, okay, hold on. This is gonna be the opposite, so we're gonna flip it. But this is why this is helpful because you can pick Ryan is so difficult to do this kind of stuff with because he just I think it's not that Ryan is difficult. It is that um Ryan is is like he just experiences things like this in a different way. Um where some people can feel it. If you feel disconnected from your body often, if you dissociate a lot, anything like that, do yoga, see if you can do some mindfulness around this. I would say that that um even if maybe to you you don't feel the physical feeling, we're trying to feel what it feels like. There is a sensation that comes.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:47

See, so this is where the English language sucks because in meditation where you say, picture yourself here. I'm like, what? So I'm making stuff up now? Yes, I'm just gonna I'm supposed to just make stuff up and then I'll feel better about it. It's like, no, I'm not, I'm not doing that.

SPEAKER_01 1:14:00

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 1:14:01

And I know that's just my interpretation of what you're saying, it's not what you're really saying.

SPEAKER_02 1:14:05

Yes, yeah. Um okay. So we can do we can do the clip one. If you think about that, that moment where you had the feeling of I shouldn't do this.

SPEAKER_01 1:14:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:14:18

You can do that. For everybody else, it's like if you can think of something that you something that you needed to do, a change that you needed to make in your life that you know, maybe was high stakes or going to be difficult or whatever, a breakup, uh that you had to go through, something. And it's like just that moment of I know that this is the right thing to do. What does it feel like? And for you or anybody else who is like Ryan, who can think of a time when they they felt something and then they ignored it. When when you were up on the cliff and you had that feeling of no, don't do it, what did that feel like?

SPEAKER_00 1:15:04

Well, yeah, so I'd already made the choice, is the problem. I had to Okay. Anyway, so I had to chase my drone up on top of this uh plateau because I found a ruin up there and I crashed my drone, so I had to go up and get it. So there was one way to climb up, but it was I was tired. I was wasted because it took I had to go way out of my way to go back and get this thing. So I'm uh I the the long way, I was like, I ain't doing that. So I walk around the other side and there it's and there's a little ledge there, two inches, three inches, and it was sandstone. And I was like, it's sandstone. I probably shouldn't climb this. And I I said, forget it. So I climbed up on the ledge and I was standing on the ledge when I thought I should not be standing on this ledge. And when I initially stepped up there, the thought was I'm gonna be on that ledge for one and a half seconds, it's fine. And then I stood up on the ledge, and for whatever reason, I stopped for a minute and paused because I was tired and I had to heave up one more time, and I was like, I should not be standing on this ledge. And next thing I know, I'm 40 feet down the hill. So all by yourself in the middle of your own. So there was the thought that was pretty subconscious, like I almost didn't recognize it before I stepped onto the ledge, which was I am tired and this is how I'm gonna get up here. That's what it is. And then when I stepped up on the ledge and made the choice to do it, then it was immediately like, I should not be on this ledge.

SPEAKER_02 1:16:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:16:35

But I did not act fast enough because I was tired and I wasn't paying attention.

SPEAKER_02 1:16:40

Well, yeah, and I but that's the other thing is that's the conditioned mind then. Immediately when you're like, it's fine, I'll be there for a couple seconds. That's your thinking brain.

SPEAKER_01 1:16:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:16:49

Right. But there was some deep knowing in you that knew, don't do it. Because it kept coming back. So I should not be on this ledge. What does that feel like?

SPEAKER_00 1:17:01

Well, it's kind of scary because you're like, well, gee, I hope I make it out of this. I hope that doesn't happen.

SPEAKER_02 1:17:06

Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So then let's That's not what you're looking for, huh? No, but it's but it it's difficult to get at, but if it's beneficial for anybody else to work through it, let's let's shift examples then.

SPEAKER_00 1:17:19

I mean, I I don't recall having a feeling in my body somewhere that was like, Yeah, well, my gut twisted and I knew I was doing it wrong.

SPEAKER_02 1:17:25

Yeah, no, no, no. No, you don't, and that's the whole thing, is what I'm asking you to do is go back into something that you are not used to paying attention to and remember it from memory. But then moving forward, you're going to become conscious of it. This is your internal compass.

SPEAKER_00 1:17:43

So so what are some examples that of of what I might have felt or why what someone might feel?

SPEAKER_02 1:17:49

Well, let's do, let's do, it's like So I can try to identify. Okay. Do you remember I want to use the shop example because it was one of the things that whatever the outcome is, it doesn't matter. But it's like the thing with the shop was is that you are always you have analysis paralysis. You will overthink everything. You will think and think and think and think and so says you.

unknown 1:18:15

It's true.

SPEAKER_02 1:18:17

Right.

SPEAKER_00 1:18:17

But the underthinker.

SPEAKER_02 1:18:19

Yes. Yes. I mean, that's a hundred percent accurate.

SPEAKER_00 1:18:23

No, not at all. Hold up.

SPEAKER_02 1:18:25

Give me five. That's totally true. No, it totally is. I'm like, should we go camping? Yeah, we would a hundred percent get somewhere and you'd be like, where's the sleeping bags?

SPEAKER_01 1:18:33

I'd be like, Oh, you're gonna shoot.

SPEAKER_02 1:18:37

Didn't think about it. Okay. Um, okay, so if we think about the shop, I'm thinking about a specific moment when you had called me and you said something like this, I would have overthinking, or thinking, I would have overthought, but I just like you just moved confidently toward it. You knew that it was something you needed to do. Not even needed.

SPEAKER_00 1:19:02

Let's not not do that because that's it was possible and I was excited and it was an opportunity, and I was like, I'm just gonna do it.

SPEAKER_02 1:19:10

Yeah, but it wasn't impulsive either. There was something in it that was like, it was the thing to do. It was the right thing to do. Right?

SPEAKER_00 1:19:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:19:19

So, okay, so I mean think of that moment when you are moving on it and you're excited. Okay. You're like, I'm doing this. Okay, what does that feel like?

SPEAKER_00 1:19:34

By the way, this was uh just renting a shop to work on vehicles. That was that was it.

SPEAKER_02 1:19:39

Yeah, it's fine.

SPEAKER_00 1:19:40

It doesn't matter what asking question again.

SPEAKER_02 1:19:42

What did that like the excitement and stuff, what did that feel like? When you make decisions, sometimes you can be bogged down by overthinking or trepidation or whatever else, but this was totally different. What was this?

SPEAKER_00 1:20:00

Um abandonment of the way I would normally do that decision.

SPEAKER_02 1:20:06

You're so difficult.

SPEAKER_00 1:20:08

Well, but what are you what are you looking? I don't know what you're looking for. I'm just answering your question.

SPEAKER_02 1:20:11

I know, I know. It's funny.

SPEAKER_00 1:20:13

I I didn't feel like I I didn't feel anything. It was, oh my gosh, this is affordable. This is close to the house. Um it's available. I'm gonna do it. And I did it. And then I was like, holy cow, I have overanalyzed this type of decision a hundred times and never did it. And it was just freeing to be like, I'm doing it, I'm just gonna do it.

SPEAKER_02 1:20:36

Okay, freeing. You've said freeing.

SPEAKER_00 1:20:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:20:39

You've said excited.

SPEAKER_00 1:20:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:20:42

Those are not normal things for you. That's what I'm saying.

SPEAKER_00 1:20:46

No, that's totally true.

SPEAKER_02 1:20:48

It's going to be somebody who is listening to this at some point and it's like, I'm totally with him, like I got it. That's where I'm trying to do.

SPEAKER_00 1:20:55

When you said what did you feel, I couldn't identify free. I know. You know what I mean? I'm just I'm answering it, and then you picked it out and said, Oh, that's what it is. And now I'm able to go, oh, okay, that makes sense.

SPEAKER_02 1:21:04

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay.

SPEAKER_00 1:21:05

So what I'm asking I felt unencumbered by my life situation in making a decision that I had wanted to do for a long time.

SPEAKER_02 1:21:12

There may not be for you a physical sensation that there is, uh, because that's the way our bodies work. There's a nervous system thing in it.

SPEAKER_00 1:21:22

Well, maybe I'm just really good at ignoring it because I've been practicing ignoring it forever. Who knows?

SPEAKER_02 1:21:26

Yeah. When you f feel free, unencumbered, what does that feel like to you?

SPEAKER_00 1:21:34

Authentic? Is that a good idea? I mean, it feels more not feel like it feels uh hopeful.

SPEAKER_02 1:21:41

How did you feel in your body? Can you answer that one?

SPEAKER_00 1:21:45

No.

SPEAKER_02 1:21:46

Yeah. I would say having witnessed you in that.

SPEAKER_00 1:21:51

I probably felt lighter. Yes.

SPEAKER_02 1:21:54

Lighter, excited, energetic, driven. It's like you were like giddy.

SPEAKER_00 1:22:02

Well, yeah. So most of my life I've struggled to see anything in the future that would that I was like, oh good, I can't wait for that. And so it was drudgery. And that was like, oh my gosh, yeah, this is exciting. Now I get to go move in and paint and whatever. You know what I mean? So yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:22:18

Yeah, but every decision that you have ever made like that, that you are making for something that you want, there has been a fair amount of guilt and shame and trepidation because are you doing making the right decision and whatever else would be like, and somebody else is paying paying the price for me making this decision. Right. And so so that's where it's different. So for me, just like so that you have two examples, it's like I can think of a time and what it feels like is even if there is a fear. I mean, I would say even uh doing the podcast or starting my business, it's heavy, right? But there I would say that when I knew that it was the right time to move, it feels expansive, is a word I would use. It's in my chest. I can feel it in my chest. It feels open, expansive, and it feels like um clarity and drive, I would say as well. Okay. So I talk to people all the time who may feel like they feel it in their chest. They it feels open, it feels freeing, it feels like that. Everybody just either if you do, if you do have an experience that you can connect to with it, uh, this is don't overthink it. It's just like go back to that moment of knowing. And if you don't, then you're going to pay attention to it moving forward and see if you can land on what that is. The reason why I do this and say that it's connected to your physical body is there's a lot of times that, you know, we it's like our body, you know, I don't know, that it it keeps us stuck or whatever. But one of the things that I have learned is it's like uh the middle way the Buddha teaches, you know, that it's like it's not on either extreme, it's both. To me, our body is this incredible tool, the intuition that we have, the polyvagal nerve that runs from our brain up near our limbic system all the way down into our gut. That's why you feel anxiety in your chest, your gut, or your throat. Because you have those kind of sensations. Your brain will register, usually, if you are aware of it, your brain will register physical sensations before you understand what's going on emotionally.

SPEAKER_00 1:24:46

I have I I I have felt um anxiety in my gut. Yes. My gut's turn a little bit, and I I and I know that, oh, I'm something's bugging me.

SPEAKER_02 1:24:57

Yeah, good. It's just all that. It's mindfulness, just being mindful about what your your body is the greatest tool to help you know different things. I think there's a quote that I love that you know has to do with so many different things, but um it's by Niyera Wahid, and she said, uh, and I said to my body softly, I want to be your friend. It took a long breath and replied, I have been waiting my whole life for this. It's like coming to this point where your body is not the enemy, your body is your friend. Your body is a tool. If you want to get better mentally, emotionally, if you want to be more mindful, you cannot. I just don't think you can do it without body awareness. Because it's just part of it, like being connected to and understanding how you feel your emotions and where they show up in your body. If we're doing parts work with people, I can get people to understand what part we need to work with by sensations in their body.

SPEAKER_00 1:26:08

Okay, so the point that I gleaned from this is your body says, I've been waiting for this my whole life. That means that that person, it's not something that they were good at doing, that they had done.

SPEAKER_01 1:26:20

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 1:26:21

And so I it's it's definitely a skill.

SPEAKER_01 1:26:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:26:25

Um you know what I mean? Yeah. That you have to you gotta you you gotta tune in. Yeah. And if and I don't know in my life, I I I am not an athletic person. I don't I can't hardly tie my own dang shoes. I mean, I can't every time I go anywhere where I have to move, they're oh man, you're really intense. And yeah, that's my life, I guess. So so I'm obviously I'm not good at tuning into my body, and I'm not probably spiritually connected to my body in a way where I could tell you this is where I felt that in my body because I just don't recognize it. I don't I don't pay attention. I don't clue into it.

SPEAKER_02 1:27:09

Yeah, I think that even you saying that right now, that is not something that you would have ever verbalized about two years ago. You'd just be like, yeah, I can't. I just don't work that way.

SPEAKER_00 1:27:20

What, that I can't tie my own shoes? I can't bend over that.

SPEAKER_02 1:27:24

Just the awareness that you are not spiritually connected to your body.

SPEAKER_00 1:27:30

Oh, yeah. It's an awareness thing, but it that's the thing. It's it's like all these other skills, it's it can be slow.

SPEAKER_01 1:27:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:27:38

Like I've for like two years, I've been like, I gotta exercise more, I gotta go work out, I gotta do, I gotta stretch, I gotta. And every day I'm like, I ain't doing that.

SPEAKER_02 1:27:47

Of course you are. Nobody wants to do an I gotta. Nobody does.

SPEAKER_00 1:27:51

I know. I'm not very good at that kind of energy about it. I'm not very good at taking something I don't want to do and turning it into something I do want to do.

SPEAKER_02 1:27:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:27:58

I'm I'm I have a hard time.

SPEAKER_02 1:28:00

Okay. That's great. I think that I think that that is it's can you see that there would be value in connecting to that?

SPEAKER_00 1:28:11

Yeah. And I admire I admire you. You're like empathic. You're like, you can connect to people and things and I mean very freely.

SPEAKER_02 1:28:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:28:21

And I'm, you know, and I'm not sure. But just like you said, it was a mindset.

SPEAKER_02 1:28:25

It's like I can go into the doctor and just say, I just something's off. I don't know how to explain it. It just is. I'm like, I think I got this and this going. And then they'll run a test and go, whoa. Like you have, you know, but it's like, no, but it is a skill. That's totally true. And I'm not always that way. It's it's just it's being mindful and knowing how to use your body as a tool. Right. So, all right. So now we're connecting to the place in your body where you have the knowing of how to move, how to do things, decisions to make in a way, right? Um, I would say that is also peace. Um let's uh flip it. Now this one's gonna be this one's gonna be shockingly easy, I would guess. Is all right, now think of a time. This is generally the one that everybody's like, oh yeah, I got that. Think of a time when you acted in a way that you were like, oh, why did I do that?

SPEAKER_00 1:29:28

I don't I don't know.

SPEAKER_02 1:29:29

Yeah, because Ryan's always nice.

SPEAKER_00 1:29:31

I mean, I've thought like when it took everything that I had to quit my job and get out of an industry I didn't want to be in, and then two weeks later I took another job in the same industry. That was when I like was why did I do this?

SPEAKER_02 1:29:45

Okay, all right, that's fine.

SPEAKER_00 1:29:46

Where that's not what you're asking.

SPEAKER_02 1:29:48

No, but it can be a little bit I mean I know why I did it.

SPEAKER_00 1:29:51

I did it because I had to do it and pay the bill and all that, but Yeah, but it's okay.

SPEAKER_02 1:29:55

So if you are to go to it's like, is there a time when you reacted? How about to the door-to-door salesman?

SPEAKER_00 1:30:04

I'm just Oh, that was not reaction, that was a hundred percent response.

unknown 1:30:08

Yeah, okay.

SPEAKER_02 1:30:09

All right, we're not going there.

SPEAKER_00 1:30:10

Okay, now if I got a sign on my door that says don't come knock on my door and you come knock on my door, I'm gonna not need to know one.

SPEAKER_02 1:30:20

It's the only time, Ryan, it's like all of us are like, whoa. It's like in 28 years of marriage, he's never raised his voice at me. But if you but if a door person comes and knocks, it's like he's like, What are you doing? I'm like, oh, okay. Okay. Think of a time.

SPEAKER_00 1:30:37

I approached him very nicely. Anyway, go on.

SPEAKER_02 1:30:39

Was there, I mean, is there ever a time when you reacted to something or you said something that afterwards you're like, I shouldn't have said it like that, or I wish I would have said something different.

SPEAKER_00 1:30:53

Probably. I can't think of any.

SPEAKER_02 1:30:55

Yeah, okay. So it's easier for the rest of us. Ryan's literally. No, he's he's okay. He's not if we we needed it easy. But the truth is, is that it's not going to be easy for everybody, right? For some it is. Now I will say this. It isn't super surprising that you can't, because one thing if you know Ryan.

SPEAKER_00 1:31:18

It's so much easier when you just don't say words.

unknown 1:31:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:31:22

You don't have to go, why did I say that? Well, just don't talk.

SPEAKER_02 1:31:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:31:25

You don't have that problem anymore.

SPEAKER_02 1:31:27

But one thing that is true about Ryan is in my percep or perspective, that has always been true is Ryan will be true to Ryan, like to himself and who he's going to be. He's like, integrity is all. He's always been that way. But it's like he has never been a person, is like, why would I do something to make other people like me? You know, it's like, why would I do that? And it's like, okay, got it. Uh I mean, I'm sure I don't have that gene. Like, I why it's like, why would you think about why would you worry about what anybody else is thinking about you? It's like, that was an option. Like, I didn't know.

SPEAKER_00 1:32:03

Well, it's probably easier number one because I'm a man. I'm sure.

SPEAKER_02 1:32:06

No, it's just it's you. Okay. So if you if for anybody else, it's like think of a time in your life where you were where you acted in a way, you maybe snapped at your kids and you didn't want to. You uh like you were impatient, more impatient than you wanted to be, or you snapped at a spouse, or something like that. Um if you can think of a time when you did that, it's like now feel what does that feel like in your body when you are sitting with that feeling of, ugh, why did I do that?

SPEAKER_00 1:32:40

For that, okay, I'm connecting.

SPEAKER_02 1:32:42

Okay, where is that?

SPEAKER_00 1:32:44

I don't know, but you just reached for your throat. So I'm guessing it's your throat.

SPEAKER_01 1:32:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:32:49

I I'm just saying I'm connecting where this is all coming together about because I can see somebody in that situation that feels the ick from it. Yeah. That I can identify. I shouldn't do this. I can't, I I don't know.

SPEAKER_02 1:33:01

Yeah. You are, you are, I mean, it's like, okay, you know, it's like anytime you just react in a way, maybe like when our kids were little or something and they're frustrating, and you're because you're always very patient. But it's like if you are ever step over that line and are a little snappy with them, it's like that feeling after you were like, ugh. Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:33:22

Well, okay. Okay, yeah. So for me, it's not so much a feeling after, it's a feeling uh twenty times over the next 10 years where it's like you should not be able to imagine.

SPEAKER_02 1:33:32

Exactly. Okay. So when you think of that, can you feel that in your body?

SPEAKER_00 1:33:38

Yeah. Where do you think I just feel heavy, like Okay, good.

SPEAKER_02 1:33:43

Good. It's doesn't, it's not the same for everybody, right? So there's sometimes it's like, okay, if you feel something, uh if if something whatever, it's like it will be like um if something is true, then it will make you feel this certain way. If it's not, then you know, you'll feel confusion or whatever. But it's like that's not true for everybody. It's very different for everybody. It depends on the way that your body is wired and your polyvagal response and a whole bunch of other things. So for me, it's right here in this area in my throat. It almost feels like there's a weight here. But I will be going about my day or whatever, and then I will just feel it and go, what the heck is that? And then I will know, okay, sit down. It's like, what is that?

SPEAKER_00 1:34:30

You always feel stuff before you identify what the heck is causing it.

SPEAKER_02 1:34:33

But that's that's the skill I'm trying to teach. Okay, then I'll shut up. You keep going. But that that's the skill I'm trying to teach because it's like that was the learning of it, and it becomes more available. You become more mindful of it as you practice it.

SPEAKER_01 1:34:48

Yeah, I'm sure.

SPEAKER_02 1:34:50

But that's your intuition because it's the thing in here that tells me I did something that wasn't true to who I wanted to be. And now I've got the absence of the open, expansive feeling, which is my piece, right? So now it's like I gotta fix that. So I have an example of that where it was like your dad shows up at our house and he has his Bronco that he's totally fixed up, put a ton of money into it, this old Bronco. And Jake, our son, just absolutely loves it. Jake also is my level of impulsiveness. Like, there is a big fat puddle. I'm gonna drive my Jeep straight through the middle of it and then kills his engine. Like, that's Jake. But he um, so my father-in-law comes over and he's like, I just wanted to see if Jake wanted to take my Bronco for a couple days, whatever. And I called Jake at work and he's like, I'm on my way. So he comes home and he gets it and then takes it back to work. Well, as he's leaving, my father-in-law has since left. As he's leaving, I say to Jake, Jake, you have to be careful. Grandpa put a lot of money into this and whatever else. You have to be careful with it. And he's like, I know. And I'm like, then he turns and he's talking to Bailey, his wife, and then, and then I'm like, Jake, seriously, though, like you have to be very careful. And he's like, Mom, I know. And I'm like, okay, okay. And then he left. And I think that when I started feeling that, I was like trying to do yard work or something, and then I was like, what is that? And then I thought of it in that moment. It's like when I just sit and go, okay, what is it? My mind, your mind will bring it to you. So my mind brings it to me, and it's like, oh, it's um that was my stuff. My father-in-law handed me the keys. He's the one who spent the money, and he didn't say, make sure he's careful. He's just like, Yeah, true, people and experience over anything. Like he's just that.

SPEAKER_01 1:36:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:36:55

He's always been that way. Buys a brand new truck, and then he's like, Hey, do you guys want to take it to Moab? You know, and it's like, sure, we take it, you know, but it's he's just that way. And and so he didn't even do that, but I did. But that's my stuff because that's stuff that came from my own childhood of the fear of breaking things and whatever else. And so I had put on Jake, but actually, what I was doing is I was sending the message, I don't think you're capable of this responsibility if you look at it. That's exactly what I'm saying. So I called Jake, I mean, without saying those words, but I called Jake and I'm like, hey, he's like, hi, as he always does. And uh I was like, Jake, um, I have to apologize. He's like, for what? I was like, I was totally stressing to you, and I think sending the message that you are not capable of handling the responsibility of grant driving grandpa's bronco. And and I, that was my stuff, and I was putting it on you. I know you're capable. I hope you have so much fun with it. I'm really sorry that I did that. And he was like, Mom, I didn't even think about it. And I said, I know, or I'm glad. I said, I'm I'm really glad that you didn't. That is good. But also, like it is something that I needed to correct. Because if it had impacted him, I wanted to clear it. Even if it hadn't, because my brain's going, it's fine.

SPEAKER_00 1:38:21

Well, it impacted you.

SPEAKER_02 1:38:22

It was because it cost my peace.

SPEAKER_00 1:38:25

Yeah, yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_02 1:38:27

You know, and so that was the thing. Then I hang up the phone with him. I feel the swelling of and I feel a growth in that muscle. That it's like doing little things like that over time, especially the ones that are the harder ones to do, has been uh the very best way to strengthen the muscle of uh growing your intuition, your internal compass. Because then when there have been times where I feel peace and clarity about the way I need to do something, the way I need to move forward. And then there's always people who want to give you their opinions. Oh, I don't think you should do that.

SPEAKER_01 1:39:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:39:05

I don't think you're capable of that. I don't think you blah, blah, blah, all the things. And it's just like I so know in my body, I do not even question it at all because I know what the voice of that part of my body is. I know how to feel that intuition. So when I feel that, then it's like I don't even um, I don't question it. It's just like it's okay. I see why other people may think this because they're not in this experience, but I know that this is what is right.

SPEAKER_00 1:39:37

Well, that's equivalent to me feeling I should do something and feeling like I don't have a choice because I already made the choice. I dum, I'm not questioning it. I've already decided long until ago that I'm I'm gonna do it if I feel it. Kind of like you say. I'm not looking for outside input.

SPEAKER_02 1:39:53

Yeah. I think I just have to.

SPEAKER_00 1:39:55

But I view it a lot different. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:39:56

I'm like, I hear I hear from you a very like I have zero choice in this life is drudgery.

SPEAKER_00 1:40:06

Well, I have a choice, but I already made it. And so now I'm stuck to it. But the thing is I'm getting way better. I mean, that's been me for a lot of my life. And yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:40:15

Yeah. So that's the thing, is it's really about growing the skill. Now, I want to do another one with anybody who this might be beneficial for. I want you to think of a time when you stop for just a second.

SPEAKER_00 1:40:27

Yes. So you so the skill then is recognizing what you feel in your body and figuring out why.

SPEAKER_02 1:40:34

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 1:40:35

Okay. So the first skill. I just Yeah, it's just knowing.

SPEAKER_02 1:40:38

It's like if you know that this is your piece and then you notice the absence of it, but you feel this other feeling of why did I do that? It's like, okay, that's your body telling you something's out of alignment. It's affecting you energetically.

SPEAKER_00 1:40:54

Yeah. So ask the question what is this and why am I feeling this while it was a little bit more than that?

SPEAKER_02 1:40:59

How do I get back into alignment?

SPEAKER_00 1:41:01

Okay, great.

SPEAKER_02 1:41:02

So so let's do this one. Um, just because I think that this is one of the reasons why this really hit me is because um it all connects back to red flags. So if everybody can think of a time in their lives, um, I don't know if you would have I I think it's like, I'm sure guys feel red flags. I know for dang sure all women have felt.

SPEAKER_00 1:41:29

I mean I think part of the problem is I don't remember half my life. So my memory's horrible. That's yes.

SPEAKER_02 1:41:35

Okay. So if we can think of a time in our lives where there was a red flag, and this is one that you often do in hindsight, and usually because you are in a relationship or a relationship has ended, or something where you look back and go, that was totally a red flag, and I ignored it, right? I'm like I have one where it was like this person was talking to me, and I just, it was like something in me was like, there's something in their eyes. And it just was like this thud in the bottom of my stomach that was like like this massive warning, and so what do I do? It's like, nah, everything's fine. Like they, you know, but look how nice they are. Look at how they say these things, and I just think that they are, you know, whatever. And that's my conditioned mind. This is what Gavin de Becker is talking about when it's like we will override that innate sense for acceptance. So that's that's where we were, that's like what that one was was uh, I saw that, I ignored it. Here's the thing: every red flag that we ever ignore, we will always find out why that red flag existed. Uh I know I'm gonna do an episode on shame. This is where we release the shame of doing that, because we override it until we have enough information that we will do the hard thank. We will get out of the situation no matter what. We will not go, oh, but they're super nice, and maybe blah, blah, blah. That's conditioned mind seeking the reward of whatever it is, acceptance from this person or whatever. But if you can track the red, what does it feel like when you have a red flag? You only have to ignore a red flag so many times before you go. I trust this instinct every single time. If I look back over my life, this instinct has alerted me and I have overridden it. And then there comes a point where you maybe get burned enough in my situation that you just go, I'm never ignoring that again. I don't even need to sit around. If that warning sign goes off, I'm done. Like I'm out. And it's it's like it's not, it's a different thing from like nervousness. So you have to really look, look in and see if you can find a time when there was that feeling, an alert, a warning, something's wrong, something's off, and see if you can find those and what that felt like in your body. And then know what that is. You, when you are feeling anxiety, I would say another one to add to this would just be like if we're talking about using our body as a tool, there are mornings that I wake up and there is just this heaviness of depression, right? And so now when I feel that heaviness, my old mind would then kind of spiral off on all the reasons why I have to be depressed, which did not lead to a good day. Or when you start to feel the sensation of anxiety in your chest or your stomach, wherever you feel it, your brain immediately feels it. And unless you're conscious about it, your brain goes, That's anxiety. What are we anxious about? And then your brain is like, now that I have your attention, let me tell you all the things we should be worried about. And it starts just hitting one after another, and that leads to panic attack, right? Because the system gets overloaded with it. And so all of this is just to say that our body is an incredible tool, and that is exactly how you tap into what's going on. Then you can learn how to figure out what to do about it. So when I wake up in mornings sometimes, and I just feel that feeling of depression now, and I'll teach you this later, but it's like I will wrap my arms around myself and say, it's all right, girl, I got you. We are gonna do one thing at a time today, and that is all. You know, and only and only what is absolutely necessary. And and it lifts it. It is so effective. But it's like if you, but if I don't understand the sensation in my body and what it's telling me, I'll just feel it and my brain will work behind the scenes telling me a bunch of horrible things. Our brain, um, I think when I had heard it, it's like our our brain processes 11 million bits of information in uh every second. And we are only consciously aware of about 48 of them. I don't know.

SPEAKER_00 1:46:15

All right, I believe it. Yeah. That's fine.

SPEAKER_02 1:46:17

But it's like what the essential, the numbers aren't as important as to say.

SPEAKER_00 1:46:22

The point is there's 99.99% of everything going on in your brain you're not aware of.

SPEAKER_02 1:46:26

Yeah, but your body is responding to it. That's it.

SPEAKER_00 1:46:29

Okay, that is key.

SPEAKER_02 1:46:30

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 1:46:31

Yeah, okay, that that's making a connection for me.

SPEAKER_02 1:46:34

So what is connecting then in it? Say it just so it completes the loop for you.

SPEAKER_00 1:46:41

Well, just that the the feelings that you have are coming from so there's a source, I guess. Like I yeah, I feel anxiety in my gut a lot in the past and be like, well, that's annoying, and I just ignore it. So I that'll go away. But there's a reason, it's coming from somewhere, and that explanation of you're not aware of what's going on in your brain, but your body is aware. Yeah. And it's getting the the trickle down from it.

SPEAKER_02 1:47:08

So if you can become aware of your body, you can then become more conscious of what's going on in your mind.

SPEAKER_00 1:47:16

Okay, I'm seeing the backwards connection. Yeah. I mean, I I'm aware of a lot of what's going on in my body, but so what it hurts. I mean, it it's just dumb stuff like that.

SPEAKER_02 1:47:30

Yeah. But but if you I mean, yeah, that's totally true. It's like we have sore joints, we have blah, blah, blah.

SPEAKER_00 1:47:35

But I don't I'm not very aware of feelings in my body aside from exhaustion and all that. And I know those are probably connected to my brain as well. Totally.

SPEAKER_02 1:47:44

Well, and you know, it's like in um in in our medicine, we will like when you're running low on energy, we'll take caffeine, we'll do different things. It's like, oh, well, obviously you need more energy. Where in Chinese medicine, the flip side is, well, then where is your energy going? Let's look at that. And our emotions, the emotional energy, just like when I was talking about energy and motion.

SPEAKER_00 1:48:08

Emotion. Yes.

SPEAKER_02 1:48:10

So just like I was talking last time, the the lower negative emotions draw energy out of our body. The higher frequency emotions, like authenticity, being true to yourself, those are adding energy to your body. So if you are drained, why? This is just another way of you can look at it from a health perspective, but also look at it from an emotional perspective. It's exhausting to feel shame.

SPEAKER_00 1:48:37

So, yeah. So if you're if you're low energy, it's there's something in that 99% of your brain that you're not aware of that you gotta kind of key into.

SPEAKER_02 1:48:47

Yeah. So so to wrap up the skill to practice is find a time in your life where you felt a deep sense of knowing, I know that this is the next thing to do. Clarity, something like that. See if you can find how that you feel that in your body. If you can't now, that becomes your practice. Start seeing if you can feel that um when you're making decisions. That becomes your compass in making decisions. You don't move until you feel that feeling of clarity. So when I'm helping people with this, sometimes it's like if you have plans to go on a trip but something feels like it's twisting in your gut, it doesn't mean throw the whole trip out the window. Can you adjust anything? What is what in particular about this trip is kind of stressing you out? If you come up with a different solution for that, do you then get the feeling of peace? It's as simple as that, or it can, you know, play in something so small as that. So that is the thing is learning to use that. Then pay attention to what it feels like in your body when you have done something that is not in line with who you want to be. Now, what does that feel like in your body? Every time you feel that sensation, go inside, figure out what it is. What do you need to apologize for? Now, the conditioned mind will tell you it's fine. They probably don't even know. It doesn't matter. If they do, the apology is meaningful. If they don't, it's correcting what has gone wrong on the inside. That strengthens that muscle so much because it's difficult to do. It's this struggle. It's the thing that leads to evolution, right? And growing and learning every little thing that we do like that. You can do the same thing for red flags. You can do the same things for emotions. What does it feel like in your body when your depression is high? What does it feel like in your body when your anxiety is high? Can you be more mindful that day so that you are not, your brain is not running amok with all of the things you should be anxious about? If you are feeling anxiety in your body when you wake up in the morning, can you be more gentle with yourself? Do one thing at a time. When you're in the shower, just be in the shower. You know, it's like, okay, what do I need to do? I need to stand up out of this bed. Got it. Okay, I can do just that. Now what? You know, and you don't look at the whole day as a whole. It's too much. So just breaking it down to one, but it all started with feeling the sensation of it in your body.

SPEAKER_00 1:51:24

Yeah. And the hard thing for for people like me, or for me, is my history is it's like, well, I'm feeling this or that. Uh who cares? You gotta go to work and you're gonna, you know what I mean? You just shove everything down because I mean, partially probably my upbringing, you know. I'm 52 and my generation, that was a lot of people's, you know, because who cares about your feelings?

SPEAKER_02 1:51:50

Shake it off.

SPEAKER_00 1:51:50

Yeah, we we don't I mean, I didn't get the we don't cry, you know, but I mean it's that tough thing. And so for mm the last 30 years, it's like it it what I felt was at the bottom of the priority list, if it was on the list at all, it's like, well, that's fine, but I I these other ten things are way higher on the priority list. Yeah. And so those feelings get shoved off to the side and I do what I need to do to, you know, my responsibility, whatever it is.

SPEAKER_02 1:52:17

Yeah. Well, and I think, I mean, there's so much that is true in that as well, is then um, you know, we think when our little girls melt down and cry, they're just so precious and sweet. And when our boys do, we tell them to shake it off. Right. And and it is a massive disservice to um men because it leaves them out of balance. Um, because men are emotional beings too, and they disconnect often from their emotions, which disconnects them from their intuition, from their gut. And so it's it's just an important thing. It's like if you want balance, it cannot be all one way or all the other. It has to be both. It's the middle way, is the way, right? The other thing that I would say in all of this is um one concept that I really loved is Saint Gregory of Nyssa was, I don't remember when he was around. Um, but one of the things he took all the studying, uh, all of the teachings of Jesus and he boiled sin down to meaning a refusal to keep growing. It's just being stuck, really. Um, the word that Jesus used, I know in Greek means the you're missing the point or you've missed the mark, right?

SPEAKER_01 1:53:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:53:37

Um, but I think that what is so incredible about thinking about it in that way, because wherever you are on the idea of sin and whatever else, it's like it can be a super trigger word for anybody. Um, but it's like if sin is the refusal to keep growing, well, what Jesus said, which was translated into the word repentance, but what we've turned repentance into is so different from what Jesus taught, which was metanoia, which is a Greek word that means, well, if you break down meta and anoia, the Latin roots, it means to overcome the small self. Now apply that to the conditioned mind that's developed when you're small, when you're fearful, when your brain is run by fear.

SPEAKER_01 1:54:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:54:25

It's like overcoming fear, right? But then metanoia itself means to keep growing, to keep learning, to keep moving forward. Well, now all of a sudden it's like if if sin is the refusal to keep growing, and repentance is the opposite, which is to keep learning, to keep growing through your experiences, to keep evolving. Well, now all of a sudden it's like, oh, this wasn't ever about having it right all the time. This was always about line upon line, precept upon precept, is always about being gentle and kind to yourself. Peace is on the inside. You are at your core in the Buddhist belief. It's like you are peace. You just need to be mindful to slow down, to just be that peace sometimes, instead of always trying to perform and produce something.

SPEAKER_00 1:55:20

Quit screwing it up.

SPEAKER_02 1:55:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:55:22

Right.

SPEAKER_02 1:55:22

Just slow down, breathe, pay attention to your body. Your body knows the way. Your body is your tool, your friend.

SPEAKER_00 1:55:33

And it is a busy world, and that is hard to do for people. Um, and I guess that's what makes it worth doing.

SPEAKER_01 1:55:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:55:41

Is it's hard. It may be hard, not saying it is hard, but when do you stop doing what you're doing and do something else when the pain of doing what you're doing is more than the pain of just doing something else.

SPEAKER_02 1:55:54

Yeah, and my favorite thing is Eckhart Tully is like, if you can only pay attention to three breaths in a row in a day, do it. I'm not asking you to do anything new.

SPEAKER_00 1:56:03

You're already breathing.

SPEAKER_02 1:56:04

You're already breathing, just be aware that you're doing it. So choose it at red lights. Okay, I can't sit down for five minutes and meditate. You can you can literally do it for one minute and it has enormous effects. You can do it for three breaths and you will feel uh like Bonte Panyakara, he says, every day, wake up, write down first thing. Today is going to be my peaceful day. Read it out loud so your mouth has said it, your ears have heard it, and your mind and your body is aligned with it.

SPEAKER_00 1:56:36

And if you do, your spouse will hear it every day since you went to Fort Worth.

SPEAKER_02 1:56:41

I know. I've been I've been doing that since mid-December. But it's like it's today is going to be my peaceful day. Today is going to be my peaceful day. Today is going to be my peaceful day. It always, then then there's always like a like you switch your heart rate. Like it really has power. Yeah, so to be conscious.

SPEAKER_00 1:57:03

That's the dumb part about all this. It sounds so simple, and it is simple. It's just I I honestly, it's moving from stage two to stage three. It's being willing to give up something for something better. I'm going to give up my my busy mind that says I don't have time for something better, which is I'm just going to breathe for three breaths and pay attention to it.

SPEAKER_02 1:57:26

But it's so it's so funny because in the beginning it's like, okay, three breaths, I'm going to pay attention. One two. Shoot, did I call that person back to the back of the room? Yeah, I'm late for work.

SPEAKER_00 1:57:38

I got to have time for this.

SPEAKER_02 1:57:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:57:40

But guess what? You got one down.

SPEAKER_02 1:57:41

It doesn't, yeah, and it doesn't matter because as soon as you become aware that you lost track, even if it's three hours later, you go, oh, now you're back to aware again. So try it again. It doesn't matter because in the beginning, and there are some days where I can kill it. And there are other days where I can't make it through two breaths without my brain spinning out. On those days when I don't, I don't go into judgment. I just go, okay, today's one of those days. My brain is super active. There's something going on. So I'm just going to do everything one thing at a time. That's it. I'm just going to be gentle with myself today.

SPEAKER_00 1:58:16

That massively reduces stress because it can be hard to do to like forget about the meetings you have this afternoon and the thing you have tonight you don't want to go to just to be like, all right, I am writing this email. This is all I'm doing right now. But I mean, whatever you're not focusing on can't bug you.

SPEAKER_02 1:58:39

Yeah, but the stupid thing in all of it is that if you've got to send the email, what is it about your brain that thinks that it the only way it's efficient is if while it's sending this email, it's also thinking about the 12 other things you've got to do.

SPEAKER_00 1:58:54

Because they're okay.

SPEAKER_02 1:58:55

You're sending the email, but they're not.

SPEAKER_00 1:58:57

You have to do them, but you haven't done them yet. So your brain's like, okay, remember this, we've got to do this.

SPEAKER_02 1:59:01

I mean, it's like the practice of mindfulness that I talked about last week, it's the same thing. It's like, okay, you know, like Eckhart Tolle says in the in a new earth, which is fantastic book. It's um when he's like, if your job is to go across the room, there's a book that you need to get, and it's across the room, then you are walking across the room. That's primary. Getting the book is secondary.

SPEAKER_00 1:59:28

So this is not a one-step thing you're doing. This is two steps. Yeah. Get up and walk across the room.

SPEAKER_02 1:59:32

Yeah, but and then get the book. But it's one step, it's one step in the sense that all you got to do is each step. And you know, walking meditations, it's like right foot, and you can even break it down to lifting, moving, stepping, lifting, moving, stepping, you know, and when you're trying to break up the cycle of go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, and do something different so that your brain has to stop and be consciously aware of what you're doing, because otherwise, 95% of your day, your brain just wants to run an unconscious pattern so that it can sit and calculate all the things it should be afraid of.

SPEAKER_00 2:00:08

It's that same thing that keeps coming back up. You gotta stop, put the brakes on and and take a sec. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 2:00:15

Yeah. And it's all just a skill. It's just patience. There is absolutely zero reason at all at any time for shame. Shame is the thing, and when I'm working with people in addiction, when I'm working with people who've experienced enormous trauma, shame is the thing that gets them stuck. We first have to unstick the shame so that we can move. You know, shame serves no purpose in uh movement. And sometimes it's the default. And we'll talk more about that because I think it's it's meaningful enough to go into that.

SPEAKER_00 2:00:51

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 2:00:53

Yeah. So for all of you, it's like there's there's no judgment of self. It's just like Ryan was saying, this is if this is a new muscle, if you have a harder time connecting with the sensations in your body, if you feel actually out of body dissociation, that is something, it's like really truly yoga is incredible because um, well, because it's hard and because they're saying words that you've never heard before, and you're like trying to figure out what that is, but they also want you to do that move in time with your breath. And so you don't have time, you don't have the ability to think about anything else. And so at the end of an hour of a yoga session, all of a sudden I'm like, okay, it isn't about me being able to perform every cause I can't stretch to its fullest ability, but it is about I just had one hour. I come out of there on such a high because I just had one hour where all I did was focus on what I was doing in my body at that exact moment and timing it with my breath. It's so good for you that way. Um, if it is a helpful thing for you. So getting connected back to your body, but all of this, it's just a muscle, it's just a skill, it's a good place to start. If it's easy for you, awesome. Start building on it, start living from it. If it's not yet, be aware of it moving forward. That becomes your practice. And uh just stop every once in a while and go, what am I feeling? When you feel a sensation in your body, what might this be? And just get curious about it and see what you learn. But it's it's absolutely the way to connect to the multi-sensory being, to evolve, to grow, to become more virtuous.

SPEAKER_00 2:02:42

Yes, to move into deeper virtuousity, to be what you were created to be to the fullest extent that you can.

SPEAKER_02 2:02:50

And it's like to the fullest extent because maybe you believe in a spiritual side of that, and maybe it's because you have, you know, a hundred billion neurons that can make a hundred billion connections and we only make a few. I mean, that's I don't remember the exact numbers, but it's a lot. And so the capacity of our brain to develop in this life, it's that is within the capacity that we have. So why not stretch that muscle? It's um you really, I think for me, in a lot of areas of my life where I used to feel extreme fear, I just I couldn't conjure it up. Um, not in everywhere for sure, you know. And and fear comes up, but I'm maybe fear comes up, but I'm not afraid. You know?

SPEAKER_01 2:03:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 2:03:39

So okay. Um, I hope that this was meaningful for all of you. Um, I hope that the meditation is well um worth spending the time doing um in both of our experience and the experience of many other people. It is definitely something that has been meaningful and meaningful and transformative. But we are thankful that you tuned in. Hit follow on the podcast so that you can get the new downloads every time we upload. You can also follow us on TikTok at Greater Peace Pod, um, and then all of the other social medias uh at greater peace. Uh if you want to stay up to date on any updates or I post clips, like little clips from like nuggets of information from the episode. So if you want little reminders of little things, then you can see those there too.

SPEAKER_00 2:04:31

So and I just found this out by YouTube. When you upload a video to YouTube, it doesn't get listed in their search results for like up to two days or maybe more. And so that I discovered is what the bell is for. When people say, click the bell for notifications, because then it when if you do that for a channel, when that channel uploads a video, it immediately sends you a notification that that video is available. I th I don't know if it's it was with a link or what, so you can actually find it.

SPEAKER_02 2:05:05

You guys fun fact, I didn't know the social media side of this for my nearly 50-year-old brain, this is it's something. I it's like everything is displaying it.

SPEAKER_00 2:05:17

I I've been like, I can try. Like, here you go, this is your problem.

SPEAKER_02 2:05:22

Hey, make sure you uh, you know, you do this and then you can keep their attention five seconds longer and then this and then this. But I'm like, but none of that is authentic. It's an all manipulation to get people to stay. And I'm like, how about I'm gonna put it out there, and if it's helpful and meaningful to somebody, they will find it. I'll just trust that the universe will bring them here, I guess. I don't know. I'm like, maybe that's my avoidance of needing to do all the things, but it's okay.

SPEAKER_00 2:05:47

That's for you dialing into your authentic self.

SPEAKER_02 2:05:49

Thanks, love. You're welcome. All right. Well, thank you so much for joining us. Hopefully, this has been helpful, and may you all be well and be happy and be peaceful.

SPEAKER_00 2:05:59

I agree with everything she just said. Talk to you next time. Thanks, everybody.

SPEAKER_02 2:06:05

Bye.