Welcome to the Table

Episode 4: Behind the Scenes of the Mental Health Field

• Welcome to the Table • Season 1 • Episode 4

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What really happens behind the closed doors of the mental health profession? In this episode, Dr. Stacey and Regular Travis pull back the curtain on a field that is often misunderstood, offering an honest, insightful, and occasionally humorous look at what it's really like to work in mental health.

From private practice and community agencies to hospitals, schools, and crisis settings, they explore some of the career paths available within the profession and the unique roles that mental health professionals play. Along the way, they discuss the realities of the work... including the emotional demands, paperwork, ethical responsibilities, and the moments that make it all worthwhile.

Together, they also tackle common misconceptions about therapists and counseling, explain why the mental health system can sometimes feel difficult to navigate, and discuss the importance of supporting both those seeking care and the professionals providing it. Through personal stories, professional insights, and candid conversation, they highlight the resilience, dedication, and humanity that often go unseen.

Whether you're thinking about pursuing a career in mental health, currently work in the field, are receiving services yourself, or are simply curious about what happens behind the scenes, this episode provides a thoughtful and authentic perspective on the people committed to improving the well-being of others.

Pull up a chair - you're always welcome at the table.

SPEAKER_01

Welcome to the table is a wellness podcast intended for educational, informational, and entertainment purposes only. While the hosts are licensed professionals and guests may have professional experience and expertise in mental health, health care, or related fields, the information shared on this podcast is general in nature and is not intended to diagnose, treat, cure, or prevent any medical or mental health condition.

SPEAKER_03

Listening to this podcast does not establish a psychologist client, therapist client, physician patient, or any other professional relationship between you and the host, guests, producers, sponsors, or affiliated organizations. The content presented should not be considered medical, psychological, legal, or professional advice, and should not replace consultation with a qualified healthcare or mental health provider who is familiar with your individual circumstances.

SPEAKER_01

Some topics discussed may involve mental health challenges, trauma, grief, addiction, suicide, abuse, and other sensitive topics that may be emotionally difficult for some listeners. Listener discretion is advised. We encourage you to engage with this content thoughtfully and seek professional support if you experience distress.

SPEAKER_03

Any opinions expressed by guests are their own and do not necessarily reflect the views of the hosts, podcast producers, sponsors, or affiliated organizations.

SPEAKER_01

By listening to this podcast, you acknowledge and agree that neither the hosts, guests, producers, nor affiliated organizations assume responsibility or liability for any decisions, actions, or outcomes resulting from the use or interpretation of information discussed on this podcast.

SPEAKER_03

If you are experiencing a mental health crisis, having thoughts of harming yourself or others, or need immediate assistance, call or text 988 to reach the suicide and crisis lifeline. Call 911 or contact your local emergency services.

SPEAKER_01

We're so glad you're here. Pull up a chair and welcome to the table.

SPEAKER_03

Hi, welcome to the table. Pull up a chair. How are you today, Dr. Stacy?

SPEAKER_01

You know, I think I'm I'm doing pretty well today. How are you, regular Travis?

SPEAKER_03

You know, I am also doing pretty well for the wonderful weather and life's rhythms. So we're at a table today.

SPEAKER_01

New table.

SPEAKER_03

New table. What what's going on with this table here? What what can we say about this beautiful table?

SPEAKER_01

Um well, first and foremost, we can say that the table is round, which is uh a stark difference from the last tables we've we've utilized. So it is round, um, composite. Is that the material? What would you call this?

SPEAKER_03

I would, yeah, I would say composite. That sounds like a a really good official construction, like furniture construction word. It's also it's got a light tone to it as opposed to our last table. Was a darker hue.

SPEAKER_01

Black. Our last table was nearly black.

SPEAKER_03

It was black. This one is is very light and it's got this beautiful little kind of feature, like a little I it's not even speckled. What would you call that? Like it almost looks like it's covered if you went to the barber and they were to shave my gray beard.

SPEAKER_00

Yes.

SPEAKER_03

All my beard hair that just landed on the table.

SPEAKER_01

It kind of looks like that, folks, but it is not secondary, secondary for um the millennial girls crackle nail polish. If you've ever experienced that, yeah, that is actually like very similar to the aesthetic that we're seeing on this table. So uh a different visual there.

SPEAKER_03

Hitting it, hitting all bases, all generations. Um, if you were you were to describe it to the boomer generation, how would you tell the boomer generation about this table? Because I'm like, I'm Gen X-y.

SPEAKER_01

Okay.

SPEAKER_03

And you are I'm millennial. You're millennial. You're right in there. Proud. So we're proud to be a millennial. Boomer walks up and says, Where's this table? Ugh.

SPEAKER_01

I don't even know. I would say it's a cloudy table to a boomer.

SPEAKER_03

Cloudy table. They would appreciate that. Yeah, like my my mom is in that range, and she's definitely interested in the weather all the time.

SPEAKER_00

Oh, right. I think it would really hit yeah.

SPEAKER_03

Cloudy table to the boomers. So this is where we're at, folks. Nice round, cloudy, crackled, hair covered table. And uh, we're enjoying this morning some wonderful warm beverages.

SPEAKER_01

Yes, we're drinking something different. We are um from the Keurig brought from home.

SPEAKER_03

Yes.

SPEAKER_01

From regular Travis.

SPEAKER_00

Yep.

SPEAKER_01

Um, and we're drinking two different things out of two different cups. So I have a K cup that is Starbucks brand, um, white chocolate macadamia nut on clearance right now. I'm thinking most people don't like it. I don't mind it. It's good. Um, got a good deal. Yeah. So um that and I chose to be really risky. I brought some oat creamer, which I love, maple brown sugar, so brand that is like my preferred. However, it said best by date was seven days ago. And I said best.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

So I'm like, you know, that gives me a week, right?

SPEAKER_03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

So if I have to run away part way through, you know why.

SPEAKER_03

We know why. Well, and we won't get into this on this episode, folks. Um, but maybe someday we can have a healing and hot takes about expiration dates. Yes. So I have a lot of ideas and thoughts and information, but not for today, folks. And for today, I see you're drinking out of the wonderful Yeti insulated mug keeps keeps it very warm.

SPEAKER_01

Yes, because one thing about me is if I'm drinking hot coffee, I want it to be burning my mouth. Yeah. And if it's not, it's already too cold. Now I can do iced coffee if it if it came cold. If you knew it was cold. I don't want hot coffee going cold.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah. It so, folks, just so you know, if Dr. Stacy sends me on a coffee run, I'm to always say extra hot for Dr. Stacy. And every time at any coffee shop it's weird, they will hit play and it started saying, It's getting hot in here. Uh, so we make sure that she gets her hot coffee. I today am also being risky. Being very risky. So I am a diehard black coffee drinker. Uh, I'm pretty bougie when it comes to my coffee shop drinks. I like all of the, you know, like the official cappuccino, cortado, all that fun stuff. But today, my friend gave me this. It's a wild roots herbal coffee. So this is there are no coffee beans.

SPEAKER_01

It's actually not coffee, if you ask me, but you didn't ask my opinion on that.

SPEAKER_03

So uh you're right. To call it coffee, the coffee industry might get angry, much like the dairy industry got angry at the almond milk, folks. But for all intents and purposes, we're calling it coffee today because that's what they put on here. Wild Roots is out of uh Hartville, Ohio. Sweet. And it is full of it's chicory root, roasted dandelion root, burdock root, cocoa husk, bromy leaf. I don't know what that word is, but another kind of root, and then some cinnamon chips.

SPEAKER_01

Nice.

SPEAKER_03

Uh so flavor profile, I would agree. It is not coffee, it's more herbal tea. It is good, but time will tell. We'll see, because it it actually feels like it's pulling the moisture out of my mouth as I take every sip. Uh, but very good. If you're looking for an alternative, wild roots herbal coffee. Uh, can't go wrong. And I have it in my keep it weird coffee mug.

SPEAKER_01

Very good. So we have a certain aesthetic going on here today between the cloudy table, keep it weird, not real coffee, um, expired coffee creamer in the Yeti. It's we got a lot going on. Um, so today's topic that we're getting into is a little behind the scenes of the mental health field. Um, since both of us have been in the field for some time and seen an array of you know, client presentations as well as held different jobs in the mental health field. So wanted to provide some insight to what that looks like, whether you're looking to get into the mental health field or you need some validation as somebody who is also in the mental health field, or you are around people who are in the mental health field, give you a little bit more insight into their lives.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah. Fantastic. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Okay, so let's start with where we began.

SPEAKER_03

Yes.

SPEAKER_01

So what happens?

SPEAKER_03

Yeah. So uh finished my degree, and mm, maybe like a lot of you, you're kind of at that crossroads point, or not even always a crossroads. Sometimes it's like here's a million paths. Just kind of pick one. And so my journey officially from school to work started in community mental health as a case manager. So some of you might be giggling, laughing, sighing, crying because you understand when I say case management and community mental health, what that looks like and what that means. But that's where I started. And uh mutt much like many positions in any type of healthcare, you have an idea. You might even have a little bit of onboarding, but ultimately you're just kind of thrown in into the mix.

SPEAKER_01

Yep.

SPEAKER_03

And you learn along the way.

SPEAKER_01

Yes. So we share that experience in that uh my first ticket into the mental health field was community mental health when I was uh counseling intern. Um so similarly, yes, thrown into the fire. A little different role. So maybe we can kind of dissect that very briefly for those who don't really know the difference. Um you can kind of give your definition of case management and I'll explain counseling intern.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, so case management is really considered a non-clinical role in most mental health settings. And when I say non-clinical, meaning you're not providing like clinical interventions directly. So you're not doing any type of one-on-one counseling, but you will support those things. So you each person who comes to the and this is pretty similar across the board, but I'll speak specifically to the community mental health agency I work for. There they create an individualized service plan. So this is your treatment plan. This is kind of the roadmap, so to speak, with some flexibility built in depending on how you do. And it will include, based on the initial assessment, all of the things you need. And one of the drop downs from that assessment, oftentimes, is case management. So case management, what we are, is kind of the boots on the ground in the community, working with the clients of this community mental health agency. So you are side by side with them going about a lot of their day-to-day kind of life. So it allows you, it's a supportive role in the sense that what they may learn as healthy or new coping skills in like individual therapy or group therapy, you're kind of helping them implement some of that. So while you're not offering, hey, this is what you need to do, you may remind them. So when you met with your therapist, right? And so let's see going to the grocery store, for example, if that triggers some anxiety, what were some of the things that you learned this week in your one-on-one session that might help? And as we're going through this, then you're there as a bit of a safety net. So if we needed to exit the situation or they have just a supportive person, and you're also modeling things for them. So again, in their day-to-day life, it may be something like, How do I open a bank account? Um, now, just so you know, folks, in case management, you're not privy to the personal information of your clients. So it's not like that. But you would you might start with a conversation in their home talking about what their goals are for opening a bank account, what are the steps to get there, and then you kind of set that in motion with the person, empowering them along the way to do those things. But when maybe they're just at a point, I'm not sure where to go from here, you might step in as an intervention. So it's really a boots on the ground type position in the mental health care world. And you're in any space and place that this individual might live their life or find themselves. So that includes the day-to-day life in their home for home visits, uh, it includes going to any type of kind of medical appointments helping in that regard. Um, you may end up in the like the criminal justice system. I've met many clients who uh have been incarcerated, um, or they have interactions with a specialized court docket. Um honestly, it's anywhere and everywhere that person might find themselves living their life and how you can be supportive for just their goals in their own mental health care, if that makes sense.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, yeah, definitely. So the difference then between um case management and a counseling intern would be I think a lot of people are familiar, at least to some degree, what it with what a therapist is doing. Um, you know, uh more intervention-based, um, spending more longstanding time. So typically sessions are an hour, 53 minutes if we're billing insurance. Do we get done on 50 that 53 minutes? Probably not. Um but, anyways, that's a whole other aside. Yeah. Um, so spending a lot of one-on-one and really understanding the individual um from a clinical perspective. So, what is their mental health diagnosis? What is the treatment plan associated with that diagnosis, and how are we going to get them to the next steps to work through their mental illness?

SPEAKER_00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Um, or depending on what the mental illness is, learn to live with it.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Um, so you know, as you can imagine, an intern in that role is going to be, of course, learning along the way, um, has a ton of supervision. So I always joke, like, honestly, if you get put with an intern, like you are set up. One, you're getting, well, depending on where your intern is, if you're in private practice, you're probably getting cheap services.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Um, and you're also getting a ton of feedback. That intern has, you know, somebody on site that they are working with, a site supervisor. They have a ton of group supervision. And then they also have individual supervision at their college university with their professor, as well as class and group supervision. So there's a lot of people like helping out on these cases. So, anyways, as an intern, um, yes, you are learning as you go to some degree, um, and also thrown into the fire. Similarly, um, you might be running groups, you're seeing your own individual caseload. Um, and so that was true for me. I would say the other thing, um, just before I got in as an intern, what I failed to mention is I did a little bit of work in uh vocational rehab. Um same concept in community mental health, but more so for just getting people employed and um jobs. So, yeah, so community mental health is where we kind of start our journey. So when we're thinking about being fresh into the field, we can assume most of us are probably not terribly confident, though we're super eager, right? We're jazzed to be out in the field. Yep. This is what we worked for. We are. Yeah. So I would argue, again, the freshies, so long as their heart is in the right place, they're probably gonna do pretty good work.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Um, and I would I would attest to that, I think. Yeah. I could speak for myself, but I'm gonna assume you'd say the same thing that you probably worked really hard and did a lot of great work early on in your career.

SPEAKER_03

And really, I think in any role in especially community mental health, you might know pretty quickly, like, is this for me? And and when I say that, that doesn't mean, oh shoot, I had a rough day, I'm quitting. But you know, you might just know, okay, this is the direction of what my life is gonna be like doing this. And and do I want to lean into this or not? Case management was very much that way, and uh uh the same. You come in pretty bright-eyed, bushy-tailed to jump in, and I've always described myself in general as an outdoor cat. So I like being in the field, I like doing things. Case management was different every day. So you have this level of excitement that you're, you know, the day will be different each time. Maybe even the day itself will have different moments working with individuals, but it certainly comes with its own level of oh, you want me to go by myself to do this home visit, and and you don't really know much about the person. So, yes, you're excited, you're eager, you jump in both feet, you do pretty well. You do, you kind of you think about okay, I'm in somebody's home. You don't have to be a mental health care professional to know what respect looks like in somebody's home, right? You kind of draw on that, even though you never know what you're walking into. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. And so despite like being able to reflect and say, actually, I think we did really good work. I, again, speaking for myself, I'm gonna guess that you might have this same take. Um in the moment, I would have been like, hell no, I'm ruining everything. Like, I don't know what I'm doing. I don't know, I don't know who I am, I don't know what I'm doing, I don't know where I'm going. Yeah. Um, and I think you know, that's kind of just a part, a part of the process. And I, to this day, um, you know, on the other end of my community mental health experience, um, I knew that I didn't want to be in community mental health long term, but I said, um, one, I think it was a great experience as an intern. Like I think you get to learn a lot. Yeah. Um, but I think even if you don't intern in community mental health, yeah, I think every clinician um and anybody in the mental health field should do a stint in community mental health.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

You see so much of what you learn in school.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Um, and you just get equipped with a lot more knowledge to be able to be self-sufficient. And I just, I mean, as a private practice owner, obviously I love the private entity, um, you are just not able to learn as much as you can learn in the community mental health realm.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, and I would agree with you there, Dr. Stacy. And that, folks, is Dr. Stacy's uh one of her many golden rules. It's spend time and community mental health. And I would also, if you have the opportunity to do a stint and case management specifically, I would encourage that. Um but you're right, community mental health allowed me in my career to be exposed to a lot of different kinds of things, opportunities, places and spaces that I probably never would have gotten if if I would have followed a more narrow path. So it doesn't have to be where you end up, but certainly is a wonderful starting point. And there are many people who go into community mental health, and that's where they stay. Like their career stays there, and it uh does allow for some movement if you decide to stay in community mental health. Agencies will have different places and spaces you can plug into. Uh, but to circle back, you're 100% right. There is nothing more daunting than throw being thrown in the fire, and you're eager, but you are very uncertain. And many times, similarly, I would walk away and need to debrief with like my managers, directors, supervisors. Like, I really messed that up. This person's gonna be completely ruined because of this. And the other thing I I have to say, uh beginning, Travis, who started in community mental health, uh, image-wise, and I know this may sound odd, but I'm gonna say it. I would come to work every day, like dressed to the nines. I would wear a shirt and tie.

SPEAKER_01

No way.

SPEAKER_03

Shirt tie. And I'm now if you're giggling because you've been in home visit any type of field or case manager, you know that sometimes you just need to be better prepared with your physical appearance. And so I would now I will say there were times it was benefit. I think dressing a certain way. Many times my client and I would walk in and folks would be like, oh, we got to get them in. But you're certainly not ready for all of the things that you do. Uh so if if you're yeah, if you're in the middle, in the thick of the shit, you don't want to tie on.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03

You don't want now for all you tie wearers, hey, more power to you. I started there and then it was quickly khakis and polos.

SPEAKER_01

Which even that I feel like is pretty like nice considering some of the places you might end up.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, you gotta be very comfortable and also get very comfortable with uh being uncomfortable. That's gonna be a lot of it.

SPEAKER_01

Yes. Yeah. So while we're kind of on the the downswing, let's keep talking about like some of the negative sides. Um let's assume like and this we'll keep it on community mental health for now, but this again we'll go over to private practice, group practice. Yeah. This is like not specific necessarily to community mental health, but I would say stereotypically so for sure.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Um, you are you don't know if you're gonna have a break. You know, we have productivity. To meet the expectation is people will not show up at some point. So if we're in a state where you know we have to meet so many clients per day, we're gonna fill that schedule pretty much end for end, assuming that somebody's not gonna show. Yes. Which usually there is an opportunity. That being said, if everyone shows, you are shoving, you know, a bite of a protein bar down your throat as you're walking down the hallway to grab your next client. That's right. You're picking, you know, gummy out of your teeth because you just grabbed a whole bag of the Welch's gummies that were in the break room. And you might not be the best version of yourself between sessions. And also the expectation that you're gonna get your clinical documentation done between clients is an absolute crock of shit. Never never have. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03

Never will.

SPEAKER_01

I don't even try. It's not even worth it.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah. Yeah. That whole, you know, the the expectations of the things that you have to do, right? Beside so the direct client care part, right, is probably the most exciting. I I haven't met many who are really excited about the documentation part that takes place and takes up a lot of time. And many clinicians, I would find, you know, you work in a nine to five, and I'm using air quotes here, folks. You can't see them, but I'm doing it because many will you're doing things in your off hours just to catch up. So you may be doing your documentation either after your shift just to try to get all of that in for the clinical information that's needed, maybe the the billing part. Um, and you're right, you do so sometimes, and I noticed this in my own experience, my self-care would wane because you're you're just in it, right? And you're going from boom, boom, boom, boom, boom. And it doesn't allow for some of those, like, I'm gonna stop for lunch because it's just not in the books for you to do that. Uh, and similarly, uh I think you're not, I was not at least fully prepared for the realities when somebody might be either in crisis or or borderline crisis, when they're they're very escalated in symptoms, what that actually means to sit with somebody in that space. Um just so you all know, and maybe you've experienced that, when somebody is in that crisis point, uh it it's it's a very, I don't want to even use the word volatile. It can be. But I just think that a person is at their most vulnerable, they're feeling the most difficult parts of what they carry with them, and that can come out sideways, sometimes directed at you. And just to be clear here, and I know that some of my colleagues have experienced physical contact with with a client in a negative way. I I was fortunate that that never happened. Um, but I've certainly experienced some of the verbal things, and you have to be able to separate that, right? But at the end of the day, you're human. And you're gonna when you hit that breath point at the end of the day, you almost have to re-up. You have to be like, okay, am I in this? Am I in it again? Right. So part of that whole sometimes negative experience can be the learning curve of what that looks like when you're navigating those difficult points, if that makes sense.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. So thinking as we continue to move on through our career, at some point we would identify both having found our bearings. So where would you say that point began for you? At what point did you say, all right, I yeah, I have it. I feel like pretty confident. Pretty confident, um, always still learning and can always improve. And yet I I feel pretty steady.

SPEAKER_03

To be quite honest in case management, I'd say uh full confidence came about six months in.

SPEAKER_01

Okay.

SPEAKER_03

Um with the caveat, right? That everything will can change and you're still learning. But about six months in, I felt pretty confident in myself, in the care, knowing the boundaries. Um and it took some missteps in those those six month time period to really figure out okay, I don't need to leave an appointment with a to-do list for me to do a lot of things for folks. Uh, for example, that's just one example. But really, six months in, I felt pretty good about what I was doing and knowing, okay, this is this is my responsibility in this job as I work.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03

Work here. How about you?

SPEAKER_01

I have two different takes. Um, in my like reflecting back realistically, I would say by the time I was starting my second internship. So um in the clinical world, you have a practicum, um, which is a semester long, and then two internships each another semester long. So about a year and a half worth of being an intern, so to speak. And I would say I probably felt pretty decent about halfway through my second internship. So like towards the end of that time. Yeah. Um, however, I would not have identified that at that point. Like I was in the weeds, I had that caseload. I was what was challenging for me is I was not able to see clients on a regular basis because I had so many clients and I was running group. So I didn't get the experience of having that stereotypical like weekly standing appointment with ex-client or even every other week.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Um, I was pumped if I got a client that I could see more than once a month. Yeah. Like I saw you the first day of the month and the last day of the month, and I'm like, sweet, we did. Yeah, look at this. Um, I think that that was really challenging. And in hindsight, like there's so many things that you don't know what you don't know. Yeah. Like I had no idea that that wasn't ideal. Um, I knew that we were, you know, overflowing and the demand is so high, supply of clinicians is low. Um that being said, when I probably would have identified it is not until so after I got out of um internship, I did more community mental health as a mobile crisis responder. Um, definitely didn't feel definitely wasn't there. Uh didn't collect my bearings there by any means. Yeah. Um, but then I ended up at a private group practice, a large group practice. Um, and I'd say probably similarly, probably six to eight months in, I was like, I got this. You got to do this. Like I feel really good, direct communication. Um, there was an admin who was, you know, responsible for handling like the billing side of things.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

But we had direct client uh contact. So folks would reach out, they could email me directly to schedule. Um, there was nobody scheduling my clients, um, which pros and cons to that, of course. But um, I really got a good sense of like what the field was, some of the behind the scenes in addition to obviously the paperwork and admin tasks. Um, and I was like, yeah, I am pretty confident here and I know that this is where I want to be. So I would say it took a little bit longer for me personally. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03

Well, and and you know, and that's the nature of the differences, right? Mechanically, like with case management, I was in a pretty consistent role, right? So while the person is different and even how their presentation or spaces and places, kind of the the rubric stayed in place. And I think that was why, say, I had my bearings. Any human interaction is gonna come with its own level of lack of confidence sometimes or a misstep or or misspoken thing. And it can shake your confidence in that. I I think I trusted the framework, like, okay, I know the nuts and bolts, but you're ever learning in the social interactions, and that included um, because I was also given the opportunity at the agency to run some groups, um, and that took me much longer to get my bearings in that. And so just full disclosure, it was a subst it was substance use groups, and I possessed at the time a CDCA licensure that allowed me to run the groups. But and that's why I say if it took you longer, that's because it's just a whole different animal when you actually start offering some more intervention type stuff.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03

And that I will tell you, even though I had really great people directing me, I felt less confident most times in that. Because now you feel a little more responsible for the direct intervention that you're offering, if that may yeah, that makes sense to you, because that's what you do.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, for sure.

SPEAKER_03

Whereas case management, you know, a late bill that leads to this has a process, if that makes sense. But somebody dealing with anxiety, you can offer here's the things, but it's not gonna be so like, okay, here's this linear course and then we've completed it.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, and so another thing that I'm thinking about too is like seeing clients change over time um and having that be a part of our kind of our gauge to where we are in our process, um, which is difficult in so many ways because on one hand, yes, like their outcomes in some ways reflect our work. And on the other hand, like we see them at most an hour a week. So like we really aren't responsible for that.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Um, but we have this like false dichotomy in our head where we're thinking like the better they're doing, the better reflection of us. We're doing well if client is doing well, yeah, yeah. Which is really unfair. Um and also kind of egotistical, really. Um, so it's kind of learning and navigating that early on too, being like, okay, clients are going to relapse, clients are going to have um like a back step regardless of what we're doing. And learning that part of our process is we show up for them in those times and they continue to come back to us.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Like to me, that was like a really big point. Um, the first time I had a client come back and say that, you know, admit that they relapsed or that they, you know, whether that was drugs and alcohol or self-harm behaviors or an attempt.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Um, when they could admit that to me and they wanted to admit that to me, I was like, okay, hold on a second.

SPEAKER_03

That's a win. There's something here.

SPEAKER_01

Like we have a really good relationship, we have good rapport right now. So I think that was a really big thing for me. That I was like, yep, that is an indicator. I need to kind of take off the the tin hat of like, if the client's doing well, I'm doing well. And you know, that just will run you into the ground so hard.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah. That I appreciate you bringing that up. Um, and it's similar, I think, in all levels that you experience that that we are not there, we're not bringing the improvement. We're offering kind of options and ideas and things that the person then picks up and they integrate into their life that may improve. Um, but similarly, I remember, and especially in uh in when I worked with folks dealing with uh any type of substance use, it's certainly not going to be a linear path. And the idea that you would live the most of your life without ever having some experience of struggle with that, and that's the same with anybody in mental health or substance use treatment. I just remember it more acutely in that but feeling the same way and like, oh man, cool, they let me know this happened or this didn't work, uh felt confident. And I, you know, one of the word terms we didn't really uh talk about is the imposter syndrome feeling. And it's got to be validating, especially from a clinical setting, when you hit those points that kind of say, okay, maybe I am doing okay. Like maybe I was supposed to be here.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. Yeah. I think another indicator, um, at least as I reflect back, that I'm gauging is once I get comfortable talking about death, um, and I I mean that from like a myriad of directions. So on one hand, um, clients wanting to die, you know, whether that's suicidal ideation, suicidal intent, suicidal attempts, yeah, um, there's that piece to the puzzle. Um, but then there's also so much grief and loss. And folks will come in claiming that they have, you know, really bad anxiety, or maybe they are diagnosed bipolar, or they have whatever mental health diagnosis, which is like the front runner, that's what our treatment plan is around.

SPEAKER_00

Right.

SPEAKER_01

As we uncover over time, well, they have all of this loss in their life. And suddenly I, as the clinician, need to hold space and say, we can talk about this. Like I can talk about this. Um, and I think that that's something that's really, really important in the field to be comfortable talking about death. Yeah. Um, and if that sounds scary, uh I got bad news that is going to come up. Yes, absolutely. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03

Well, and I appreciate you making the distinction, right? That there is the physical death that one might struggle with, whatever that looks like for them. But more often than not, it's the paper cut death, right? It's it's the griefs of the things, the relationship I'll never have. Yep. Or the relationship I wanted that isn't the same, or um I want to be, and I'm using air quotes here again, folks, normal.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03

And I will always have to care. You mean I have to be on this medication forever. And there's a grief to that. And it's not a one and done thing. It is an ongoing, like you may get to a point where mostly you're doing okay, but then there's moments when you're reminded and you have to regrieve that. And I think us as care providers, you're right. We have to sit in that with a person and not be afraid to go there. I think that's what creates those safe spaces for people to to make that genuine connection and have a little bit of hope that, like, okay, it's not just about me getting over this, it's about me learning to cohabitate and be okay with it.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. Yeah, this would be a great plug for um the five gates of grief. Um we'll do a whole other episode on grief. We can have like we could be here all day. But we'll peek. If you're not familiar with the five gates of grief, do some digging and we hit on a handful of points that are um encompassed there. So when we're thinking about us, you know, kind of where we are now, the reality of day-to-day.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

So currently you are business development and I am private practice owner. So what we're doing now looks vastly different than what it looked like when we first started. Um so can you speak to the the business development side and kind of what your day-to-day as an outdoor cat looks like?

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. So uh I always often discuss so I do business development for an inpatient behavioral health hospital. So while I'm not in direct client care anymore, all of my experience in direct client care comes into play as my main role in business development is creating relationships in spaces and places where individuals might find themselves in a mental health crisis. And they may need quick access, smooth access to a safe space where they can, for a short time, find that stabilization, right? And so why it's important, all my experience, because my day-to-day puts me in so many diverse places talking to a wide range of clinicians. I think my case management years certainly made me much more patient and being able to sit with folks and talk to them. It also, um, I will be just, I'm gonna say this the hardest day in business development, it it's just not the same when you're not in that direct responsible care role. So my days, if if there's a difficult task, uh proportionately because of my past experience, I'm not defeated by it. I'm like, hey, I've had much worse experiences. Uh my day-to-day is is on the road. I'm I'm out in a wide territory in northeast, uh northwest Ohio, um, traveling between different spaces like uh uh emergency departments, community mental health agencies, private practice, primary care offices. I'm members of different coalitions, suicide prevention coalition, overdose awareness coalitions. Um, and I do like little tabling events where I get to interact with community members and treatment providers. So what I've one of the quickest ways I've often described my career now is I went from a micro level where I'm working for an organization and working with individuals in their own individual universe to a much larger view of the mental health care system because I get to work in various counties. You start seeing the bigger picture of funding through mental health boards versus like for-profit systems, insurance things that you never thought you'd want to or care about, but become important. And the main goal is creating systems and flows that make it easier for that individual to get from point A to point B safely and with at least amount of rigmarar and not malingering in a process when you're in crisis. Like I just need to get to a safe point. So that's kind of what the day-to-day looks like, really. On the road, Willie Nelson style, blaring it out, put my headband on, I put uh uh pigtail wigs because I don't have hair, sunglasses, sunglasses, and I just on the road again.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03

I just can't wait to get on the road again. That's me. That's me. How about how about you and your and your uh what do I do? What do you do?

SPEAKER_01

My what? What are you gonna ask?

SPEAKER_03

Tell me uh tell me about your day to day, Stacey.

SPEAKER_01

My day-to-day. Um yeah, so it does um it depending on the day, uh, it looks very different. So I'm just gonna speak to the days that I am like full-time therapist, and I say that because I also teach psychology. Yeah, and I'm a dog trainer. So the days that I am devoted strictly to the practice.

SPEAKER_03

One thing to note here, folks, is she said dog trainer, not wrestler. Um, although she may feel like wrestling a dog can be fun. Do you advise it? Have you seen sorry, I'm not gonna ping you so I promise we're gonna I disrupted see how rude I am. Dr. Stacey's about to give her, and here I am like, okay, so would you wrestle a dog? Like fun. Under what circumstances not like two two people creatures enter in one meeting. So like do you advise that as a trainer like to rough house a little bit with people?

SPEAKER_01

It depends on the dog and the breed and the intent. Oh if we're doing uh if we're training, which I don't train for context, I don't train a protection dog. But if I were, I mean, I'll get in a bite suit tomorrow. Let's go. I'll wrestle a dog. I'll have a dog wrestle me.

SPEAKER_03

In a future episode, we're gonna have Dr. Stacy in the bite suit.

SPEAKER_01

Um So in that context, yes, if we're training for that.

SPEAKER_03

You gotta wrestle around a little bit.

SPEAKER_01

But if if the intention is to have a a cozy family pet, no, I don't, I really don't advise. You don't want to build that that energy and no, I don't want to build that as a uh baseline or an expectation that we get to wrestle every day. Yeah, it's cute when they're 10 pounds. It's not so cute when they're 85.

SPEAKER_03

And I've seen that. Sorry, we're pinging off a little bit. We're gonna get back to it. I promise you. I've seen that even with uh my friend's little ones, their children, where the the child does not have the brakes. Like when it's time to play and hit a little bit, then the parents into it, they're like, Yeah, but then the kid's like, hey, we did this before, and now you're not into it. Yeah, the gas pedal is probably similar to the to the dog who's like, Well, we you let me chew on your arm yesterday.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_03

And now we're not doing this.

SPEAKER_01

Exactly.

SPEAKER_03

So, anyway, sorry, Dr. Stacy, a little ping-off there. So here is Dr. Stacy.

SPEAKER_01

Day to day.

SPEAKER_03

Day to day.

SPEAKER_01

Um So the reality is because I do two other things, um, the days that I am devoted to therapy are typically very long days. So Tuesdays and Thursdays for me are those days. Um I also see a couple, like I sprinkle a couple clients Monday, Wednesday, Friday, but like very few.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Um so my Tuesdays and Thursdays, I typically am going from 8 a.m. to 7 p.m. Um and similar to my time at community mental health, I don't ever block a time for my own lunch. Um not because I'm expecting cancellations necessarily, but because the chances of every single one of those being full every week is so slim. It's happened.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

It's happened. Um occasionally there will be a reschedule that I'm like, who honestly, don't mind that you're rescheduled because I would love that hour to eat. Um so yeah, back to back. But then the reality is so from having the private practice, you're not just uh a clinician. Now you are, you know, the clinical director and you're also the marketing team, and you're also HR, and you're also IT, which I am not IT. Let me just be really clear. I suck at IT. Um, so that that is not great. Um, marketing in theory, you might look and be like, oh, it's fun, an opportunity to be creative, um, which again, I'm just not good at it. I think it would be so fun if I just had this great platform that I was just like doing it. Yeah. Um and it's not. And it's so cringy. And you just feel like, okay, now I'm a I have this practice and I also have to be on social media. And like that's the reality of 2026. Like, if you are not at least somewhat on social media as a business owner, then like what are you doing? It's free marketing. That's right. So um probably say that that sounds really negative. In theory, it would be really fun probably if I had more time to do it.

SPEAKER_03

But you don't carry your selfie stick everywhere you go and be like, hey guys, Dr. Stacy here, just out on the streets because you're booked back to back.

SPEAKER_01

Because I'm booked and I obviously can't do that with clients. Um I am trying I am trying to get better about just like, hey, what am I reading today? Like what's coming up in session? Like what are my client celebrations of the week? Like ending the week on something positive, just like making a post about that.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Um, so the reality is, and then don't even get me started on insurance. Like, that's a whole other situation to tackle that we could probably spend a whole other episode on. But um, just for context, I think people might see, you know, private practice. Obviously, you went into it for a reason. You have more autonomy. In theory, you can make more money. Um, I'm gonna put a question mark after that, depending on how you're doing it and what clientele you're seeing and if you're accepting insurance and not or not. Um, but you know, at the end of the day, you're thinking, oh wow, you're billing for 53 minute sessions for insurance or 60 if it's self-pay.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Um, and you're getting paid this X amount of dollars for that session.

SPEAKER_00

Right.

SPEAKER_01

If I was doing that 40 hours a week, that would be a decent salary.

SPEAKER_00

Right.

SPEAKER_01

Can I actually see 40 clients a week? No, absolutely not.

SPEAKER_00

That's rough.

SPEAKER_01

Um, so there's that aspect. There's also the sure, I'm with the client for an hour. And let me just another fault on my end is I suck at ending on time. If we're in the middle of a thought, I'm like, oh my God, I can't cut them off. Like we gotta, we're gonna be five minutes over. So we're always over. Then we have the paperwork on the back end. We have progress notes, which shout out to any clinician who's chronically um caught up on their progress notes. I don't know who you are or how you do it.

SPEAKER_03

Um but if you are, can you write in to us?

SPEAKER_01

Tell us how you do it.

SPEAKER_03

Let us know. We would be, yeah.

SPEAKER_01

So the progress notes, meh, 15 minutes maybe per client. But then we also have session prep. So, like, what am I preparing for this client for this day? So add that up. We're not talking, I'm seeing the client an hour a week. I'm you know, operating with the client, so to speak, closer to two hours a week.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

So, anyways, all that to say, if you're considering private practice, some things to think about for sure. I love it and I wouldn't change it for the world. And you also see that I work two other jobs, one of which is technically full time, 40 hours a week. So you get the gist of where I'm going with that.

SPEAKER_03

Well, and I appreciate you pointing that out. And it explains to me why I've I get the stink eye a lot when people find out I've exited direct client care in business development, because the rhythm is a little more freeing and certainly more consistently lucrative than probably direct client care in a business development role. If you feel confident that you're okay selling your soul to the company store and market, I'm I'm just teasing, but you there is an aspect of that where you have to rectify, like, as at the end of the day, you're you're developing business and you're marketing, and that is your specific focus for a specific purpose for the organization you work for. And uh, and so yeah, when I hear you talk about your day-to-day, I'm trying not to feel bad that I'm like, I am not doing any of that. And uh that's why I try to bring you coffee when I can.

SPEAKER_01

And you're and you're like, and I am making more money than you. That's that's where your head goes.

SPEAKER_03

Uh well, you know, maybe maybe on another episode.

SPEAKER_01

On another episode, we're talking salaries of various professions. Just kidding, we're not gonna do that. Um, but all that to say, like this is where I want to be. Let me be really clear. Like I, despite having said some like negative things about, you know, going through the community mental health to private practice, kind of the stops in between and where I am now, yeah, um, want to be really, really clear that this is exactly where I want to be. And I'm super happy. I feel from the private practice side of things and owning my own practice, like the autonomy and the freedom to build a practice in the way that I want it to be. Um, of course, we have outside forces, we can't control everything. You know, if you're going into it for the sole sake of control, probably don't do that. But it is really freeing to be able to be like, yeah, I can sure I work crazy hours sometimes. And also I can flex a day or I know I'm gonna be doing X on this date. Guess what? I'm not seeing clients that day. Yes, it's my option. Yeah. Um, so the freedom to be flexible in the schedule is really, really valuable to me. Um, and then also taking on and building, you know, back to the marketing that I'm not so good at, but marketing to the clientele that I feel that I can best serve. Um, that also gives me the opportunity to kind of spread my wings a little bit further.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, and bring in people fire hose of like here's a million different things that you might deal with, and it's just not your niche.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. And even going off of the niche, um, I could niche down more, and that would probably be a huge critique of anybody who's really making it big in private practice is well, you're not niche down enough.

SPEAKER_03

You should niche it.

SPEAKER_01

I'm not quite I'm not quite ready to do that. I have a couple kind of areas of specialization. Um, but in doing that, I just feel like it's a beautiful thing to be able to have different clients on a day-to-day basis. And clients are coming to me because they want to work with me.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

I'm not finding clients. Yeah. So again, retention rate. You know, people are coming because they're seeing what type of work I do. They have, you know, some level of what my personality is via thank you social media. And they're coming in and saying this is who I want to work with. Which I mean, I haven't done the research on this. I know that there is research suggesting this, but um, I would imagine that folks are probably having uh a better time remaining with their clinician if they chose them as opposed to being placed with somebody willing to.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Okay, so on that note, let's get to some research.

SPEAKER_03

Let's talk about some research.

SPEAKER_01

So let's talk about folks remaining in therapeutic services because that is something that is actually um, you know, we see them dwindle off, especially in community mental health. They come and go, yep, come and go, come and go.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Um, so in thinking about what actually keeps people in therapy and what makes people say therapy is working and valuable, yeah. Number one predictor according to the research, therapeutic alliance.

SPEAKER_03

Oh, yes. What is therapeutic alliance?

SPEAKER_01

Um, so this is the perceived connection between client and provider. So um, I'm gonna reference a um an article from The Frontiers in Psychology. Um, the emerging picture suggests the quality of the client therapist alliance is a reliable predictor of positive clinical outcome. This is the best part, independent of the variety of psychotherapy approaches used. So, regardless of if they're CBT-based, DBT, uh emotion focused, humanistic, if this is grief work, is if this is specific to uh decreasing anxiety, regardless of the reason that client is there and the interventions that the therapist is using, the relationship between client and provider is the number one predictor.

SPEAKER_03

Is wow. You know, and that makes sense. You know, in any setting, uh you want to connect with the person in a certain way. Um and as a even in my primary care physician office, I might stay with somebody who maybe I don't always fully agree with their line of care, but because I trust them as a as a person and I've made that connection, they may still be offering what is in my best interest. And so they don't have, you know, have that. Yeah, that makes sense.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, I mean, I'm thinking even about my experience with um like primary care, physicians, like other providers. Um yeah, something about just feeling like I am taken seriously, I'm being heard, yes, what I'm saying is actually um like they're looking into it. Even if they're thinking, oh my gosh, Stacy's a wackadoo, like I know that what she's describing is not real, pretend. Humor me. Just do the run the test, do the thing, and I am so much more likely to remain with that clinician or provider. Um yeah, so I'm thinking very specifically to like early me as an intern, and a story is coming to my mind.

SPEAKER_03

Oh, story time with Dr. Stacy.

SPEAKER_01

I like it. Well, as I mentioned earlier on, like feeling like I got my bearings in the like towards the very end of my internship. Um, something that really solidified that for me. So, of course, as a an intern, you're leaving, you're not there forever.

SPEAKER_03

That's right.

SPEAKER_01

So all of my clients know that, right? Yeah. And there was one in particular who I honestly felt bad that she got me.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

She's this just sharp as a whip, like seriously, like so intelligent, yeah, um, like lovely older woman, like retired, retirement age, um, and just incredible. And she was like very, very depressed and was ultimately wanting to get off medication.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Um, feeling like the medication was not working, suitable for her, all of that. And my take on that, which I mean, this was kind of bold as an intern, honestly, but that was well, if that's what you want, like let's give it a shot. Let's support you in the best way possible to make that happen. Like, don't go against doctors' orders. Like we're not dealing with somebody who's getting off of, you know, super intense psychotropic medication. Um, she's on depression meds and she was not feeling like she wanted to be anymore. Um, and so that was essentially her goal was to like remain in therapy, like follow our treatment plan and wean off the medication. And she was able to do that. Um, and you know, even had I not like had any feedback, I probably would have said, like, I think that went fine. Like it was okay. Yeah. Um, but I was a little intimidated because I'm like, oh my gosh, I'm like fresh grad school, like she has so much more experience and knowledge than me. Like, she's not gonna take me serious. Um, and she was pretty, you know, resistant at first. Um, but over time, at one point she made the comment. Um, I have mentioned to multiple providers that I wanted to ultimately not be on medication, and you're the only one that has ever said, Yeah, let's talk about that.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

And so that was like a cue in to me. Like, okay, that that was meaningful. Yeah. That was meaningful.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Um, but to take it even further, then when I left, I got a call from my supervisor months later saying, Hey, somebody dropped something off for you at the office. Could you stop back in?

SPEAKER_00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

And it was a handwritten letter from that client thanking me for sitting with her, holding space. Um, I remember vividly one of the words she used was um, thank you for believing in this imperfect human. Oh, wow. Like that's how she described herself. Beautiful. Which is wild because my perception of her was she's this incredible person. Like I feel intimidated being her provider right now.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

So, um, anyways, all that to say, I think that is kind of highlights that research wherein I didn't know what the heck I was doing. What interven I couldn't even tell you what I was using. I was probably, you know, we get CBT shoved down our throat in grad school. So I was probably leaning CBT uh a little bit and just like narrative-based, you know, whatever, talk, debrief, what's going on. Um, so objectively, I don't think that my clinical intervention skills were anywhere near where they are now. Yeah. But I was able to be with her. Um, and so that really cued me in and made me say, like, we need to be human first, connect with the people, yeah, then we can do interventions. Um, and that's what I teach. That's what I teach um at the college level. It's what I teach to my supervisees. Like, come in and be human.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

And if you build the rapport with the client, we stand a chance.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

You you can be the best clinician, have all the interventions under the sun. You are not going to be helpful if you can't connect with that person.

SPEAKER_03

That's really good.

unknown

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Supported by research.

SPEAKER_03

And I've, you know, I had a mentor tell me once that most people can learn the modalities, right? The treatment modalities, CBT, you can be trained in that. But what you can never learn is how to be human.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03

And I appreciate you saying be human first. See people as people, and then from there you you work from a much more trusted, safe space than if you come in and I'm the authority, so you just need to listen to me because I'm trained and I have all these skills, right?

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03

How does that land? Yeah, not so well.

SPEAKER_01

For me personally, yeah, it's not landed for me.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Okay, so I think it's time to switch gears. Let's switch gears. We've had some serious, you know, we've we've been heavy stuff.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah. Um this is not pizza roll talk.

SPEAKER_01

That's not pizza roll talk. Let's shift into something a little bit lighter for healing and hot takes today.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Let's talk about naps.

SPEAKER_03

Oh. Love a good nap. I am a napper.

SPEAKER_01

Also, love a good nap.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah. And I think that any chance, and I am a napper, like I'll I can have it scheduled, or I can even just today. For example, I got here early, was sitting in my car. Guess what I did?

SPEAKER_01

No way.

SPEAKER_03

Little cat nap.

SPEAKER_01

No.

SPEAKER_03

Just like a I told you. I'm I am very much like a cat. I'll curl up in any position and I'm out.

SPEAKER_01

So I second that. I can do that also. But the in the car thing gets me. I'm always nervous. Somebody's going to see me. Um think stress. Well, so there's that. Like, oh, did the somebody thinks I OD'd and am knocked off in the in the parking lot. Like, I don't want that to happen. They're busted down my door. Um, I also just embarrassment. Like it feels embarrassing to be sleeping.

SPEAKER_03

You don't want to be mouth open, drool coming. I've been that.

SPEAKER_01

I am a drooler. When I take this is this is another thing about me with short naps. I tend to drool on my really, really good like 20 to 30 minute naps.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

I'm not typically a drooler. Yeah. But like for whatever reason, if I have this like short period of time and I get really restful asleep, I will often drool.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

So I don't need anybody seeing that, I guess is my point.

SPEAKER_03

You don't want to be on an insta reel.

SPEAKER_01

No.

SPEAKER_03

Look at this lady, mouth a gape. No. Like fire hose. Are you a snorer?

SPEAKER_01

Typically, no. Um, again, under the right circumstances. If I'm sick, if I'm congested, you might be snore. Um.

SPEAKER_03

But I do.

SPEAKER_01

If I'm in just the weirdest upright-ish position, like instead of being horizontal, if I'm vertical with like a neck cock, I run the risk of snoring.

SPEAKER_03

You run the risk of snoring. I don't think I do. I used to think uh before I was married that I slept and never moved in the night. And my spouse quickly said, no, that is not the case.

SPEAKER_01

Not sure.

SPEAKER_03

Um, but I am I am a full supporter of naps. I have friends who are not.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03

They actually don't find it replenishing. Um, even when their body's telling them to stop and they they might doze off. I have one friend in particular who wakes up, he said he's in the worst mood of his life. No, like people can't be around him. His his partner's like, yeah, yeah, you do not want to go near him after a nap. Like he's just something in the body chemistry. I don't know. And it takes him, like he will be in this are his words, ruined for the rest of the day. So he's better. Like if he's had a late, crazy late night, most of us would say, Oh, maybe later I'll grab a nap. He's like, No, I'm better if I just keep moving and then go to bed at my normal time and sleep a normal schedule. So there are folks I think that probably don't find naps beneficial. I just happen to be I'm a napper, but I'm a I'm you know, I'm a I'm a grass roller too, you know. Like uh let me caveat here, not rolling ziggras, but rolling in the grass. Uh so uh rolling the grass, that'll be a different episode. But um yeah, I love when I say that, like I will go lay in a field. I've been out on the road and looked out at a field, I'm like, that's a good laying field. Now, property, you know, trespassing and stuff. I don't go get in the field, but my mind is there and a good nap in a field under a tree.

SPEAKER_01

I I love uh sunbathing in the grass. Oh, yeah, like just like a backyard, yeah, like kind of feel bigly stuff when you're sunbathing. Almost always. The problem with the in the grass sunbathing is ants.

SPEAKER_03

Ah, because you're probably I was gonna say oiled up. No, I wear sunscreen.

SPEAKER_01

I wear sunscreen, which I guess is kind of greasy.

SPEAKER_03

So the ants show up.

SPEAKER_01

Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. And that ruins it.

SPEAKER_03

But I uh I get the spiders. Like I'll wake up and they'll be on my leg or just chilling watching me. And it I have no and this another we can talk about this the fear of the older Ragnids. They don't bother me. Like I'm just like, hey buddy, I'm like, what's up?

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, no, not me. You would wake up. I would be bothered. I don't want ants all over me.

SPEAKER_03

So naps, I think we're we've come to the determination we are pro nap.

SPEAKER_01

Pro nap. Some people are not. Some people can't. Also, I think a an important distinction is we both can take short naps. Some people can't do that. Like if it's not over an hour, they can't do it. You catch me again, late cancel on a client. I am sleeping on my nap. Sleeping on my nap, sleeping on my couch in my office.

SPEAKER_03

And speaking of naps, our engineer is napping right now. He's like, uh, okay, I'm just gonna doze off while that's enough of that. That's okay.

SPEAKER_01

So final couple final things. Um, first of all, drop a joy for the week. What do we got?

SPEAKER_03

Drop a joy for the week. I'm excited tomorrow. I get to participate in a first ever in my local county. Um, it's a safety and wellness fair. So for the community, yeah. It's uh at one of our um community providers together. Come on out, come on out, Dr. Stacy. Uh so uh I'll be sitting at a table, just interacting with community members. That's one of my favorite parts of this job is we do get the opportunity to talk to community members. Not I I enjoy talking to other providers, but especially when you're in the community, folks who live there come and you get to interact with them. And so that's really what it will be a lot of that. So that's a drop of joy for me. I've been looking forward to that. It feels very purposeful.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, nice. Yeah. Um, drop of joy for me, I'm gonna be more reflective instead of future focused. Nice. Um, this week has been my so two weeks ago, I feel like my mornings were just a nightmare. I just couldn't wake up. This week was different in that I felt like I actually was able to wake up well. Yeah, um, get a good workout in first thing in the morning, and um just feel like I'm like doing something. I don't know. I feel like recharged and like have been feeling actually really good waking. Uh let me just caveat. I don't actually want to get out of bed when my alarm goes off. I'm not jumping out of bed. I'm certainly snoozing a couple times, but once I'm up, I feel like good for the day. And I'm really grateful for that. That feels like a drop of joy for me right now.

SPEAKER_03

And taking a nap, maybe. And taking a nap.

SPEAKER_01

I did get I did get an unexpected nap this week. So I'll take it.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Okay, so um, for you tablegoers, um, we want to remind you to appreciate the mental health professionals in your life, whether that is a friend, a spouse, loved one, uh, family member, or mental health professionals that you are interacting with uh from the client side. Um if you're thinking about going into the field, we'd love to hear from you. Drop us a line, let us know um if there's anything that we can be helpful with.

SPEAKER_03

That's right.

SPEAKER_01

Um, and hopefully we didn't scare you off. This was like, I just want to remind you that we both genuinely love being in the mental health field.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Um, and and we're happy to be chatting about it. I think it's important. I wish there was more for me personally, I wish there was more transparency about like what day-to-day was. Yeah. Um, it would not have turned me away, but I think it would turn some people away that get in and it's too late. Yeah. Like you're there and now you've invested all of this time, energy, and money into this field.

SPEAKER_00

That's right.

SPEAKER_01

Um, and maybe it's not the field for you. So drop us a line. We'd love to hear from you.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. Do it.

SPEAKER_01

All right, tablegoers. We will see you next time on Welcome to the Table. Enjoy your week.

unknown

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03

Bye.

SPEAKER_01

Bye.