David Sherry [@brandswell] is a brand consultant, writer, founder of Death To Stock, founder of Jacuzzi Club... + more. He's a wealth of knowledge when it comes to building a brand. Keep a journal on hand for this episode! ; )
Notes:
-- Connect With David On Twitter: @_brandswell
-- David's Newsletter
-- More On David
-- Death To The Stock Photo
-- Jacuzzi Club
-- Sight Shift Coaching
-- Episode #65 With Chris McAlister: Identity Fears, Coaching vs Counseling, + Pain As A Motivator
-- Episode #65 With Chris McAlister [Part Two!]: Visualization, Funeral Exercise, + Peer Accountability
-- Seth Godin's Newsletter
-- Rolfing Bodywork
-- Meditation App Recs: Headspace, Waking Up
David Sherry [@brandswell] is a brand consultant, writer, founder of Death To Stock, founder of Jacuzzi Club... + more. He's a wealth of knowledge when it comes to building a brand. Keep a journal on hand for this episode! ; )
Notes:
-- Connect With David On Twitter: @_brandswell
-- David's Newsletter
-- More On David
-- Death To The Stock Photo
-- Jacuzzi Club
-- Sight Shift Coaching
-- Episode #65 With Chris McAlister: Identity Fears, Coaching vs Counseling, + Pain As A Motivator
-- Episode #65 With Chris McAlister [Part Two!]: Visualization, Funeral Exercise, + Peer Accountability
-- Seth Godin's Newsletter
-- Rolfing Bodywork
-- Meditation App Recs: Headspace, Waking Up
spk_0: 0:05
guys. Welcome to the turn podcast. I am an L. A with my friend David, who is the most knowledgeable person that I personally know when it comes to branding and building a community. And I'm going to interview you for years at this point. So I'm so excited that we're making it happen. Yeah.
spk_1: 0:27
I'm happy to have you here in L A In my, uh my spare bedrooms. Thanks so much for coming. Hang out. We got the incense going. We got a candle burning. Lives are going on. How are you liking L A. So far,
spk_0: 0:41
I'm obsessed. Yes. You know, I'm obsessed. Unlike all the healthy things, It's sunny. Although it was raining yesterday, the first day I got and it was raining, I was like, Oh, no. Cursed L A. But we're all good now.
spk_1: 0:54
Yeah. And you tried a different workout. You tried Legree Pallotti's way went to sweat yoga.
spk_0: 1:02
I know we had ahead every place and
spk_1: 1:05
we went to cafe gratitude, which is pretty much the most l a place that you can possibly go. So you're definitely hitting all the all the tricks on the list?
spk_0: 1:12
Absolutely. I gado Okay, typically I like to give a bio of the person I'm interviewing, but you have done so much that I'm like, OK, David is gonna introduce himself. So I love for you to share all the different careers, communities, things that you've been a part of that have been a part of your journey.
spk_1: 1:35
Yeah, So most notably, I started a company right out of school called Death. The Stock photo. That's what a lot of people I think, no, as far as my journey. I also helped organize online community called Jacuzzi Club, which is kind of like a fun place for brand builders to hang out online. Essentially, it's just a slack channel, but we're kind of turning that into something more. I also and certified as a site drift coach. So maybe you've had Chris on the show, but that's definitely like a core piece of my journey. Has always been both getting sort of coach, like working with a lot of different people in really every different industry on then also coaching other founders and leaders. So I'd say the first leg of my journey was very much the startup route. I built a company ah hired myself out of it. The second, kind of like the journey was consulting and coaching. And yeah, now I just feel like I'm this weird amalgam of doing all different types of things. I write a lot. I work with a bunch of different founders, like insult with different businesses on their brand messaging. But mostly I love community and marketing and brand. So I'd say if you were like, Map me on like you know, a chart somewhere. I feel like most people know me as kind of like the brand marketing community person. Deep down, I feel like coaching is like the one thing that I really absolutely love. And I think one thing that we share Elizabeth is this, like, just urged to keep growing all the time. And so I think what people might not see in my journey, despite the output like you might see the business or my writing or my work with other people. I think it's a ton behind the scenes in just going really deep, I guess, internally learning as much as I can from other really brilliant people, really from all over. And so yeah, I said, that's like the private life of David is just like this very personal growth, spiritual growth kind of internal world. And then the output tends to be more brand focus. So we can talk more about how those two worlds kind of meat. But, yeah, does that do a good job? I don't know
spk_0: 3:28
if it's all right. Okay, Yeah, that
spk_1: 3:30
question is always tough. And I think my goal now for my career is probably to make that conversation harder and harder in terms of just the different list of things that I do. I think one thing I don't know, this is already a topic. We don't need to go down. But I think a lot of people today feel sort of like the pain of how do I describe what it is that I do? How do I describe myself in a few sentences? And the reality is with the Internet, we can just get involved in so many different things and like there's some different ways to express yourself. I think it's just really hard to yeah, package yourself in this neat little thing. And so that question is always tough. I think everyone feels that way.
spk_0: 4:06
Oh, yeah, on. There's things obviously that you didn't mention. Like you use you really into photography. I remember.
spk_1: 4:13
Yeah, right. So my first business was, uh it's called Death of the stock photo still exist today. It's a subscription service for photo video content. I saw Instagram pretty early. Ah, and so I was pitching brands basically saying like, What do you about to do about all this online imagery that you're gonna need? Pinterest, Tumbler Instagram, Like the Web is about to get really visual and my pictures kind of If you're Nike, it's not just Adidas. That's your competition on Instagram. It is every sneaker head kid. There's, like a 1,000,000 people who were competing with you. So anyways, I was pitching companies when I was in Columbus to be there full time photographer. I was trading brands. I was doing photos for merch. I did an early charge photo shoot
spk_0: 4:59
s. So
spk_1: 5:00
we go back into the archives of charge photography. There's some photos that I took, and basically that was what I was up to at the time. And I was getting rejected by every company I pitched. I actually pitched Jenny from Jeni's ice cream in the room. She was super nice, but they told they were just like, No way Don't we don't get it. I pitched a bunch of brands in the West Coast and, uh, yeah, I kind of just like it just wasn't working like I was just pushing this vision that no one else really agreed with. Or so I mean, I think that's obviously proved out, but I also was young and didn't have that much experience. So that led me to start death. The stock photo, which is sort of lie like choose yourself, idea where it's like, OK, if no brands gonna pay me to do photography, why not just start sharing my photos online? Ah, with my friends, freelancers, designers, brand. So that's kind of how the death of socks, what was a business was born. Me and my friend Allie Lehman were both taking all the photos for that. So yeah, I don't pick up the camera enough anymore. I'd started doing all the boring stuff. I'm We started working with other photographers. We could get into the story if you want, but we started working with other artists all over the world. I mean, Philippines Berlin, South Korea, Australia. And I was helping them plan, like, really amazing photo shoots, like we did this huge surfing photo shoot where they rented like a van and did the whole coast of, like, Australia. And it is just like I was the one planning it, But I wasn't going. So
spk_0: 6:25
I think this transition happened
spk_1: 6:26
or you no longer shooting the photos you're organizing. And I think you get it as a business owner, it's like suddenly you're not doing what you started, and you're doing all like the admin. So I remember that being funny, tours like haven't taken photos and forever. And I'm helping other people plan like sick photo shoots. And I'm like, at home in Columbus. So the creative director now, Yeah, I suppose I became like a producer. Yeah, and and that's really rewarding to I mean, we work with so many different artists and like I think our philosophy had that the stock just by the nature of the business, So, basically, for people who don't totally know, we provide photo video content for brands, individuals, businesses, agencies so they can use it on their website advertising, instagram, whatever. And so We're constantly just producing new media, and it's really fun because we could just working amazing artists from all over. And our philosophy is like if you're great at your craft, we just want to hire you and let you like do your thing. So I feel like we really great relationship with everyone we work with because being an artist at the start, we know those struggles and like, Yeah, I feel like it's tough to be an artist today, so I feel like we give him a really fun playground. We fund projects that they bring to us so they'll be like, Here's a series of photos have always wanted to shoot and then we'll fund that project in exchange for images that brands can use. So did
spk_0: 7:44
you guys go pretty organically, or was there a specific moment where all of a sudden you now have 1000 subscribers or 10 K or whatever that number is? Yeah, so and this is a
spk_1: 7:57
little bit my philosophy around. Branding when I work with other companies is like, I think, the project itself. It started this newsletter where we were just sharing free images for different brands and people to use. That was the pitch. It grew pretty quickly. Honestly, we had maybe 10,000 people within three or four months, which is like crazy, so we definitely like it on a nerve. But I think it was just like a really natural process. Everything we did was collaborations. We'd start with, like, the biggest artists we could find who was like, still really small. And then it was like, Let's work with the next biggest artist Let's work with the next biggest company And eventually we did stuff with, like, medium and Twitter and like, you know, So we kind of worked our way up, but we never did Advertising everything was natural and we ended up going to like half a 1,000,000 email subscribers, which is insane on I think people just really appreciate it are kind of like voice and eat those like it was almost like a lifestyle block that you could follow. We crowd funded a road trip around the U. S. That involved like our audience. So after we had maybe 20,000 people signed up, we said, Hey, we're gonna tow around the U. S. For 15 bucks. You can back this trip and will come hang out with you in these different cities will host events and you'll get access to all the images we shot. So I felt like it was very authentic and pure and one step at a time and natural. And I think people in our newsletter always felt they're not here to, like, sell us their like going on this journey, and we got to be a part of it. And even with road trip that we crowd funded people they didn't even want whatever we're sending them at the end, they were just like, we want to feel like we're a part of this, so that was really amazing. Um, and I think it's even more relevant now because so many brands air trying to, like, stand out or build an audience or community. And I think people can just tell when it's not really and it's forced. So that was something that was just really special about that. The stock and we're also not afraid to, like, just try random stuff. And so the newsletter came out every month, and it was a new set of photos under a new theme. But sometimes we just share random shit just like we're just really like human. I suppose so.
spk_0: 9:59
When you say we was you and you know what time
spk_1: 10:02
eso for about the first year and 1/2 was mean a business partner Alley. I ended up buying her out of business because she was growing agency, and that was taking off. So we're still on good terms, but yeah, we were just, like, do what? What felt good. Like we we wanted to shoot a series of photos at a concert. And so we actually ran it out of our and had a band play and had all our friends come out like we just did crazy stuff all the time. We sold a USB drive called the Mystery USB. We didn't tell anybody was on it were like 30 artists submitted something to this USB stick, and we're not gonna tell you what's on it, and you can buy it if you want to see
spk_0: 10:38
what's on. So yeah, that
spk_1: 10:41
sold out, like within the day like that was crazy, or I remember at the election I was actually in the previous election, I was in Big Sur, and like this what I mean about being human as a brand. We're in Big Sur during the election and obviously, like that whole election was so stressful for everybody. Just like regardless, remember, this is what we would like. 340,000 people are in his letter, and I was just in this beautiful location. It was so chills like ways. I know anyone else is super stress, understandably, regardless of what side you're on. And I I literally took an iPhone video of the waves and like, this scene that I was at and just uploaded that and send it to 40,000 people. And I just said, Everybody take a moment to breathe. It's all good. So we
spk_0: 11:26
just
spk_1: 11:27
do stuff like that that, like a brand, doesn't do that right? Brand clans, everything out. They make sure everything's perfectly edited. They filter everything 1000 times through decisions instead of just like being human and riel and trying new stuff. So, yeah, I guess that maybe is like a hint at kind of my brandy, though. So, But the way it grew to answer a question more specifically is very naturally one step at a time. No advertising person to person and just Yeah, just continuing to go. We're very consistent as well.
spk_0: 12:00
Is there anything that you wish you would have done differently?
spk_1: 12:04
So many mistakes. Yes, it is my first business. I start out of school. I mean, there's different areas like it. Take that in. Uh, I think that we didn't We didn't strike while the iron is hot, meaning like things were really growing and we probably could hit the pedal way harder. And I think it's fun to talk about, like the natural stuff that I was just sharing. I think most brands don't do that, so they should bring more that into their ethos. But I almost wish we'd gotten crazier, bigger, taking bigger shots basically. And I think that the way the Internet works today is stuff. It was really quickly, right? So it's like if you're hitting on something as a person as a brand, you know, even if it's like your it's your freelance offering and you're really striking nerve with your clients. I just think the windows air a lot shorter now for what works, so it's like I feel like we this two year window where things were great and we should have just gone even deeper and bigger and yeah, but there's I mean, I have made so many mistakes, so I'm
spk_0: 13:00
happy to share. You are That's another one.
spk_1: 13:03
Okay, so something I definitely shared before is on the personal side. I and a lot of people have, you know, stories of this, but I burn out pretty bad. I think t it simply I felt like I was the business like I could not separate my identity for who I was and like what the business was. So that meant that, like whatever was happening in the company was like how I felt on. And that's a super unhealthy place to be obviously so that lead to burnout, ironically, right when the company was doing really well. So it's kind of funny because you sort of feel like everything's great. But internally, I was just, like, so stressed out, and that led to like, a ton of anxiety. I always tell this story because it's kind of funny, our number interviewing somebody who is gonna work for us like on a contract basis, and I was nervous to interview them, which is crazy But when you're when you're just like over stress, like when you're at that limit of being, you know, maxed out or whatever, Like small stuff like that really gets to you. So, yeah, I'd say that was a big thing. Was not understanding who I was, I suppose, and that was end up being a blessing because it led me down a different path. But yeah, I think founder, especially first time founders really see their company as a scoreboard for who they are. Just easier to say in retrospect. But you know, at the time, yeah, you're just like a single email comes in and it's like your whole days off, and that sucks because you kind of can't enjoy. You can't enjoy it that much. So I almost feel like there's also parts where I could have had a lot more fun, but it's always well, what's the next? Oh, you know that one great this morning and then email comes in and you're, you know, thrown off for the day so I could have enjoyed it more because it was such a special thing, like it's so like I feel so grateful and happy about it. cause it's like in general, it just was awesome.
spk_0: 14:56
Wouldn't have reviews or e mails that you got
spk_1: 15:00
okay, when you have a big list of people, Yeah, that crazy stuff. I mean, you'd be surprised. And the nice thing is, this balanced out by people sharing like love like we did. This thing was really helpful, and we'll get to some of negativity. But we did. This thing is really helpful, which is, like inner slack. We had, like, a customer love thing. We're like, anytime anybody said anything nice, we just be putting in the channel. And we also did this campaign where we asked people to explain our business like they would a party. We're like, Hey, we don't know, explain that the stock. So how would you explain that if you're at a party telling a friend and we got like, I don't even know 500,000 people saying really nice stuff, but get very strange, crazy stuff. You get very angry people. You get people who you've had a lot of value to them you maybe even for free. And they're just like yet people like square all time. People like you probably
spk_0: 15:49
like It's
spk_1: 15:50
crazy. Yeah, you get a lot of weird stuff come through and that I don't know. I guess you get a little used to that. But it is kind of weird. So we have a very global audience. Um, and that was something that was really amazing. I'll tell you the positive side of that and then some of the part that's just kind of interesting. Um, so probably 2.5 years in yeah, maybe we had, like, 300,000 people on this list that were like, Let's figure out who, like the farthest reaching person is around the world and our audience And let's send them like a care package. So we did this big campaign. It was called way out there. And I was like, Who is way out there like, who is, like, in the fucking like boonies globally? And that was like one of most eye opening things because we got like, I don't know, thousands of people writing in from Tunisia like places in Africa that don't barely have Internet, someone who was on a boat for, like, years, like people in northern Russia, like the amount of people who are writing in from all over the world was just unbelievable. And that was really special, because those people actually have less like community and less like connection to the stuff that we're so used to write like in L. A. It's just like there's meet ups every night. There's anybody you want to meet whose creative, um and so that was really special, cause we heard from so many people just being like I'm in this town of 1000 people. I'm the only person who's a photographer, literally in the town of 1000 people and like this, like thing is like my connection into that world. So that was incredibly special. But the flip side of that and I've had a lot of phone calls, even with people who were like in those areas. Is you here really raw stories about people? And they maybe want to work with you, you know? So we also get something. Artists reaching out. I remember talking to a guy who is in India, and it was just stuff cause he wanted to leave where he's from. Like he's like, I'm trying to do photography. I'm trying to get out of where I live, but like, that's not a thing here. And so that's kind of tough to just wanted. You want to support everybody, you want to help out, but very eye opening to me. So I guess all ranges of emotions try. You get people were dicks and then you learn about somebody. Yeah, maybe it's really bad illness or something. So death socks maybe about seven years old. So, you know, I burn out. Uh, I end up getting shingles, which is mostly stress related. Uh, I spend the next two years like figuring out what work is like. I think I had This question is just like and I've never worked anywhere, like, I mean, have you know, working in kitchens and stuff like that, But like, I never worked out like a company. So I just was like, on this quest of, like, what does work mean in our life and what does it mean to me? And that was really lucky just cause that the company could kind of support that. But I got to a certain point where I was like, You know what? I feel like I have other stuff I want to do It just felt like I've given death socks so much. I want to figure out what's next and so likely at a guy was working for me, Sean, who is now CEO of the company. So I spent about a year or two years not working directly in the business. And then now Shawn's like taking over buying in. I'm still like advising the company and still part on her, but, um, and that's been a really amazing experience as well. So I've transitioned mostly out of the company, and but I think it's going amazing direction. And it's been so fun because Shaun's doing stuff that's like better than I could do, and he totally gets the ethos. So that's that's been really fun. The story about Sean, it's interesting is we met online and we didn't meet in person for three years. And, ah, he lives in New Zealand. He's from Auckland, New Zealand. So we've been very globally natured and like, Yeah, I don't know if it's always been remote, So yeah, I've met up one time in person with basically my co founder who runs the business, so yeah, and I'm like,
spk_0: 19:42
so happy about it. like
spk_1: 19:43
I mean, like about, like, our relationship. Like, it feels like we have a really good long term. Like I told him, I'm like, Dude, we're gonna work together for decades. It's gonna be awesome. So that's really interesting quirk to we met on an online class skill share class. There was Seth Godin, Skill share class.
spk_0: 19:59
Oh, really? Yeah. And we
spk_1: 20:01
just had a Skype call and he had a company that he ended up selling. And so we just hit it off. And I'm a huge Seth Godin fan. He
spk_0: 20:08
was the best. Everyone he's subscribed to. Seth Goto e mails Hands down the best emails Years a second. Seth Godin. Never. Yeah.
spk_1: 20:19
I'm a huge Seth Godin fan To its that's like, the biggest thing for me. Eso I could talk about that for a long time, but yeah, So anyways, that's an interesting quirk with the company as well. And yeah, I don't know. I guess that speaks to the global stuff. I was just sharing. It's like such a global world. Now it's crazy
spk_0: 20:36
going back to you getting shingles and you feeling burnt out like you said. How did you decide? Ok, I'm going to get unstuck. Here's what I'm going to do about it. And then how long did that process take?
spk_1: 20:53
Yeah, so I think in retrospect, there was a long period of time where I wasn't aware how stressed I was, and that ended with the shingles, right? So, like like I was saying, like, I had anxiety just for meetings all the time. And it was like, You almost think it's normal at the time, but it isn't like and I just feel so much different and better now, but yes, so I think there's probably at least a year where I was like, way more stress than they realize. Uh, I get shingles, and that is a wake up call because you're sick for like, a month, a month and 1/2. I mean, it was a blessing in disguise because I was forced to just not work. Um, I couldn't for maybe a month and 1/2 and I think that was the wake up call in terms of like, this is something that's not supposed to happen. I go pretty deep on stuff anyways, and I think, yeah, I think just honestly, being in bed and like in pain and not being able to work. It was just like, this isn't success. You know what I mean? Like, yeah, it was, like success without being successful, Like at the end of it. If this is where you end up, like, what is the point? And again, it was like what I want on the work. And I don't think the language for a lot of that, but yeah, and that led me down the path of really, like a lot of personal development digging, Ah, working with the town of different, really amazing coaches. Like in any area. Like I said, I'm pretty like I don't want to obsessive, but like, I will just check out everything. Um and I think there was, to be honest, two years before I was like, really in a great place. But that's not to say that I didn't like improve that whole time, but I feel completely different than I did then And I think that's on Lee continuing. And one thing that I've been talking more with people about is like I feel like for the first time, I'm building a stronger and stronger foundation, whereas the way I was working previously, even if I had gotten out of that burnout and, like, doubled the company or 10 X, the company I know, I would hit the same point. Why, Um it was the way I was working. And I think what happens is something starts to grow. Then you get out of your comfort zone because you're in a new spot. And then instead of doing what you've been doing, which is more natural and fun, you get trapped. Sort of one thinking you have to be someone you're not. So I have to be the CEO. Now I have to hire people now have, like, I have to be this person and this like persona. That's not you. And if you feel that way, then you also feel like you're inadequate, right? So it's like you're wearing this mask. You think deep down you're inadequate. So you start looking for all these external answers. So you start putting all these other business leaders on a pedestal. They know so much that I don't know, even though I just like don't crush it is like everything was kicking ass. And suddenly I'm questioning all that and like looking at all these other people, which is really easy to see everywhere online. All these people have it figured out. They know what businesses. I'm not a business person. I'm a artists, your creative person. So I think you, like, build this really unhealthy structure. Uh, yeah. Which on one side of that structure is I have to pretend to be this formal person on the other side of that is because of that, I'm seeking all these answers from other people. And if you're stuck between those two like you might hit successful goals and maybe three years after that burn out, I would have, you know, grown a ton again, like on paper. I think you'll just hit the same cycle because it's not sustainable. You're like in this tension, whereas like in this other form of working that I have now, it just feels like it all comes more naturally from me, and I trust myself more, and it's like my confidence is slowly growing. So I kind of feel like that was the two year kind of period after it is like building up a true foundation for work. Yeah, I don't know. Does that make sense. Like, I guess what I'm describing. Yeah,
spk_0: 24:49
yeah. I'm trying to understand it a little bit more because I want to understand you are obviously not the CEO of death. The stock, many more. What, within that role did you realize I don't have this in me? Or maybe this is not me. That's why I want to move away. Or was there anything that you could have done that could have been done that I would have let you down the path of you are still a CEO, And you're also doing all of these other things?
spk_1: 25:21
Yeah. So I think my transition, I think everybody who hits that point, like if you're running a company, I think a lot of times people do at this point where they may feel trapped by it or something like that and I think that can lead to a lot of negative ways of dealing with the company. You become authoritarian, right? You micromanage or you neglect the company. I'm just gonna hands off No, no worries, right? Like there's a bunch of negative ways of doing that. What I did was I think I sort of paused and like pulled myself out of it and went down this path of like, self development. And then it felt like this really healthy, positive thing did make that shift. So I think for anybody, any of those, like decisions could be right. You could stay in the company, you could downsize the company. You could take funding. You could leave on Guy. Think that's personal to everyone. But what matters is where you coming from, And for me, it was like I'm going to do 10 companies. So this is actually like it's actually staying small to just be the leader phone company, and that sounds like whatever. But it's like I'm gonna have a big portfolio and, you know, work with 10 different brands, and that's a bigger opportunity. And I'm gonna speak and write books, and I'm gonna you know, um, so I guess, like, well, one Sean was wanting toe take more like leadership in the company, so that felt really natural to So I have no regrets. It felt super positive the whole time, and now I'm super stoked. When he sends me stuff that he's working on. I'm just like this is amazing, so I think that could be different for everyone. But what I would say is at any decision point, really, whether it's this big decision on the company or just even personally in a small thing where you're coming from is the biggest difference. And I took enough space that I think I came back around and I was like, Positive. And that's what I coach business owners on now, right? So what's funny is after in this Aiken Segway into how he got into coaching somewhat. But after I made that transition, I think other people knew that story or somehow people started reaching out. Being like I'm in that spot, I'm in the point where I feel stuck in my own business. I just feel stuck or I don't know if, like, how to get to the next leg of the vision. And I think people also saw, like, Oh, you removed yourself. That's like pretty cool, like maybe I want more freedom or whatever. So that was how I kind of naturally started working with other people in that same spot. But I think, yeah, any decision there is, right it where you coming from? Is it because you a positive vision that's even bigger. And, uh oh, are you Are you doing this out of fear? And I think that's where people tend to has to come from With that, you know, I give myself enough space for that. Yeah,
spk_0: 27:54
who are all of your mentors at that time?
spk_1: 27:57
Ah, there's a ton. I worked with Chris McAlister, who was big mentor. Some people in his network were super helpful. I met this really old Italian guy named Luca who used to be in venture capital and has, like, the most insane life story of all time. And I worked with him for like, two years, I think, and he was super influential and just going really deep. Ah, and then books and stuff like that, like so much self learning as well. And writing is very helps. You work through stuff. So I think the mix of like two or three and was really positive is maybe the like male role models. I guess like two or three really like strong, like mail role models where I feel like they have the life that when I'm older, I want to be like how they are. Ah, and then books and writing. How did you find Luca? I just moved to L. A. And every time I meet somebody who's been really and there's so many smaller engagements, you know, I'm very quickly just like Oh, if someone has something interesting that I don't know, like I'm working with them and it's always like, Come at the right time. So, to be honest, I think I was maybe here for, like, 23 months, and then either I got connected or I found him or something like that. And there's some other like coach type people I want to work with soon and like weird areas of whatever. But yeah, his whole thing is personal leadership over yourself. So it's like, What is this story going on in your head? And are you able to sort of lead that in a positive way? So can you become aware of, like, what am I telling myself is a story? And then can I change? Can I change that in a positive way? That serves me and he's brought the smartest person I've ever talked to around that, and that was very fundamental for me, and I bring that into a lot of my coaching practice what he does. It's also really fascinating, and I found this truth. A lot of practitioners I've worked with is, and I think it's like partly a belief, but he thinks you can change really quickly, like extremely quickly. So like, and this is a side note, but I'll bring it back to Lucca like I worked with a guy who was a role therapist, which means he's kind of like a PT. This is for my neck pain. Have you heard of Ralph? Are Oh, yeah, exactly. R O l f Yes, yeah, he's actually here in Santa Monica off to get you his name because he's brilliant. Yeah, he, like, I think, was at Harvard and then went the Eastern medicine around afterward as a doctor. And so he's just like a genius. But every time I find some was really good, I hear the same theme come up. When I met with the Ralph guy, I was having neck pain and, like similar back pain, he did always crazy, like sit down, stand up like, you know, squat. You're just doing all stuffed assess, and he's like you should be completely free from like your headaches in less than 10 meetings with me. He's like my job is so like get you out of here and done unlike fixed like for And as long as you do some other stuff to keep it up, you're like, good. And I found that to be a little bit pattern, with really great people in any expertise. And, like Luca, is like the same thing. He's like if you have, like, a false belief about something, like, we can change that like very quickly. What, like
spk_0: 31:05
geeks does he dio? He has
spk_1: 31:08
a very interesting background. I feel like he studied a bunch of the different like disciplines, like we didn't do hypnotherapy. But he has, like study, I guess when he was in London, he likes studied that a ton, but it's so here's Here's what it really is and it's hard to explain. Maybe I wish I was better explaining this on the podcast, but it sounds simple, but you just identify with the story is you figure out why it's not true because any false narrative in your head isn't true. And then once you see for yourself, like all the reasons you can start like E. I think he calls it like knocking like the legs out from under it, like once you start picking it apart suddenly like doesn't have as much power. And even though you might think that again, deep down, you sort of know like it's like different Now I'm trying to think of like a good example of that. I definitely do this when I liked coach you because I picked up so much from him. But it's like so like, here's an easy one. A lot of people don't think they're smart, like a lot of people fundamentally believe. Like I'm not someone who's intelligent, and I think I thought that, too, and it's just maybe you don't think that consciously but like you make a lot of decisions kind of from that places like Oh, I could never do that. I'm like, just not smart enough or whatever and you start to break down why that's not true. And I could give you some examples of that, like one of them is that when we think about people who are geniuses, they're actually just geniuses in like one domain, like if you think about Albert Einstein. He's a genius, like no question. He's a freaking genius, right when it comes to science, Is he good at cooking? He's not a genius. That cooking is what I asked him for. Relationship advice? No, no,
spk_0: 32:45
he he's
spk_1: 32:46
just very smart in a very particular area. And I think when we build these people up on a pedestal and we don't see the whole person, we start thinking that people around us are perfect in every area of their life when in reality they're just genius and one very specific thing. And that might be your boss, right? So you're scared of your manager, You're scared. Your boss, they're very intimidating. And you think they're just so smart. And I'm so stupid and I make mistakes. And what I just kind of tell people is like your boss Last night at midnight, like went out for a McDonald's run and got a bunch of french fries, went home, watch Milan and cried
spk_0: 33:25
and like there's a whole
spk_1: 33:26
life outside of that intimidating office experience that you don't oversee. So anyways, I feel like people. When you think about themselves, you know your whole life experience when we think about others. You think about this very specific version of them that is, like, intimidating and all knowing and perfect. Um and so, like, that helped me sort of, like, start seeing people not as much on a pedestal like they were such so much smarter. They're just smart in one area, and then you start looking at what are you smart at? Oh, actually, there's a certain area you're really good at, right? And so anyways, I know that was, like, maybe more like, complex, like discussion, but it's like you just start to change your perception around like, Oh, yeah, like that person I thought was scary has whole life. I don't see they do silly stuff. They probably haven't puppy that they, like, talk baby talk to like that person you're so scared of because they're so intimidating, like, rubs their nose with their boyfriend or girlfriend and, like, baby
spk_0: 34:21
talk on. And so, like,
spk_1: 34:23
you gonna always talks about, like, just rearranging the situation in your mind. And the next time you show up, you can kind of almost laugh to yourself. You, like I was so scared. This person of unknown thinking of them I like the underwear audience than almost, but that definition of genius or intelligence. You see that it's like kind of made up and and then you can start breaking down well, like let's talk about what you're great at. Okay? Like clearly because of this isn't this and anyone that builds up your confidence. You kind of always break down one of the lies and then you started buildup. What air? The truths that are positive. And that's something you would apply to, like any area of your life. And so that's the process. I feel like I went through a lot, but I hope this is making sense. I know like we're kind of going deep
spk_0: 35:05
on this. Um, yeah,
spk_1: 35:09
and it's just so interesting because, like I said, that's where you can change something kind of quickly and and that could be even, like, more subtle things around, like like for me if I realize that food was like entertainment, like, I really like to eat bad food in two times. One when I'm bored for entertainment to when I'm stressed and a similar thing, you start like breaking down like sort of what are some lives around this and like, we're some positive things around this. And then, like once you start to see it now, I still let myself you bad. But I know deep down what's going on. It's kind of like not being controlled by your anger anymore, but sometimes letting anger be something that's fun. Or like we're, like, crying. It's like sometimes you're like, I'm crying
spk_0: 35:50
and I want to keep crying cause it feels good, like, deep down, I know that it's like I'm fine. Like, I could stop crying like So once you, like,
spk_1: 35:57
set up this more positive relationship, even when you get thrown off deep down, you know that it's like it's not this fundamental flaw, you know? So anyways,
spk_0: 36:06
yeah, yeah. So with Luca, you said you worked with him for two years. How did you decide to stop working with him and similar thing with Chris? Chris? Yeah. Yeah, So I guess I didn't
spk_1: 36:20
take a quick step back and just encourage people just learn from other people who you feel like might have some way of being this different. And also again in the same vein of what I was just talking about, realized that they might not. Their whole life might not be what you want, but something about what the energy they brain might be what you want. So, like, maybe remember, even called Mills one time. This is a fine story. We have a friend who's super outgoing, and this is just a one time phone call and I said, Dude, you are like the life of the party. Everywhere you
spk_0: 36:51
go, everyone in town knows
spk_1: 36:53
you like. So I guess what I'm trying to say or describe here is that you could do this with one time with a friend. If you see something they do that's really special. And you wonder why that isn't something that's easy for you. I asked him about it, so I called my friend, who is like the most popular person in Columbus. I think like he just everywhere he goes, he knows everyone. And I'm like, Dude, I'm just not like I feel like I want to be more like that. I know. Maybe I'm not going to be perfectly like that, but like, what do you feel like? It is about how you bond with people or, you know, and I cant rember specifically advice. I remember feeling like Oh, yeah, This is, like, really helpful. So
spk_0: 37:28
I know is advice. I I'm sure I can,
spk_1: 37:32
like, dig it up in my brain. I just can't figure it right now, but, like,
spk_0: 37:34
I guess what I
spk_1: 37:35
mean is, so we'll get to, like, more long term work with coaches, but you don't have to pay anybody like everybody. So many people have special talents that they really think about way more than someone else. And they've really sort of, like, developed that. And it's like this really strong area of how they are just are as a person. And so you could just ask your friends, you know, So doesn't need to be some crazy coach. We know weird stuff. It's like if there's an area. Yeah, I suppose I am saying, is if there's an area that you want to develop in, um, you could just ask Ask your friends, but I take that a step further. I try to invest mawr every year in coaching and to answer your question. What, do you know where to start when you know when to end? Every time I've started with someone, it just felt like the right time. Um, and the person was there, right? You feel I need someone to help with this. Suddenly somebody gets recommended, someone shows up. So I think there was come in that way and then, yeah, I think the same thing is it's always a natural end to It's like, Did you go deep? We were talking about this last night. Did you go really deep in a specific area? And then when you feel like you've got it, that's the point where you can bounce right is like I just was feeling good, like with Luca is just like
spk_0: 38:51
talking to you like
spk_1: 38:52
you can do this now and I just feel great. So you know, which obviously you can always kind of keep going, but there's other areas to explore, like life So complex. Um, I want to like we talked about this last year. Like emotions is something for a guy that like is not a thing that you think about because we're very meant. Most guys, very mental, like about idea is not about, like, feeling. So that's like an area I'm interested in learning more about. Now that I'm like kind of actively open to someone who could be really helpful with, like, yeah, learning about emotions, I guess.
spk_0: 39:26
So you're actively looking for that person right now. I'm
spk_1: 39:29
reading about it. I'm thinking about it. I'm But if I noticed something or I see someone, I see a book, then Yeah, but when you're, like in that mode where you're, like, available, seeking people recommend stuff like you talk about it. So I recommend something you've recommended some amazing books to me that have been, like, hugely helpful. Um, so yeah, I guess going back to just for anybody coaching could be expensive, but books and people you bump into can be free if not super cheap, maybe even something you just meet. And people love talking about that, like I'm sure, and I would have died brothers now, but I'm sure there's something that you have thought more about than anybody else in the world. Like, you know, something deep is like below all the other stuff that other people see. And that's like your journey is You've been figuring that you like a thesis about life, her thesis about, like, work or fitness or anything. And it's probably so different than anybody else's. And nobody asks anybody about that. But that's like the thing that's so fun.
spk_0: 40:34
Yeah, it's really I think the question is, what are you curious about? Yeah, you know, I love all of that. Honestly, I know. I think this is a great segue way into talking about your coaching program and what it looks like to work with you. All right, I am going, Teoh leave you guys hanging and we will get back to the conversation next week where we talk all about coaching. We talk about tech trends. We talk about personal branding, and we talk about tools for entrepreneurs and so much more. David honestly is so knowledgeable as I'm sure you guys have noticed. David was my last conversation before shelter and place started. So I am really savoring this conversation, and I hope you guys have been enjoying it. I will talk to you guys next week and we will listen to the rest of the conversation I had with David by charged girls. Good morning. Yes, I'm talking to you. It was time to get charged up because these days knew this guy says hi Hands bluer than blue With the sun shining in all the birds chirping to to day is the best day to be alive The miracles appear once you open up your eyes Surprise time to keep living a dream So get up Enjoy the rest of your charge Tain uh