How Fighters Actually Train with Jeff Lee

What actually matters in training?

In this episode of Lifestyle of Fitness Office Hours, Mike Caulo sits down with strength coach Jeff Lee from Monstrousitous Strength and Performance to break down:

• How fighters structure training
• Recovery and nervous system management
• Strength standards for dads
• Exercise selection
• Injury prevention
• VO2 max and conditioning
• Sustainable fitness strategies

This conversation is packed with actionable takeaways for anyone trying to:

• Get stronger
• Improve performance
• Lose fat
• Avoid burnout
• Reclaim their health

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 👉 lifestyleoffitness.com

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Guest:
Jeff Lee
monstroustious.com

💭 Thanks for listening to The Lifestyle of Fitness Podcast with Coach Mike Caulo - NBC-HWC health coach, retired pro Muay Thai fighter, father of 4, and founder of the LOF 100-Day Comback System, 

Transcript

Welcome y'all. So you may be training wrong if dot, dot, dot. That was kind of like the little click baity title. I'll be honest. I tried to use here on some of the platforms. The point of that is looking at our training. We have an awesome guest here, Jeff. Thank you for joining us. Jeff Lee. Again, we got all the information below. If you want to check out his programs, his company, all that, but I figured we're just going to kind of hit the ground running. And the goal, what we're going to try and take away from today is actionables that you guys can actually use today and in your programming and in your fitness that is no fluff and just straight up action. So I figured what better person than you, Jeff. So thank you, by the way, for joining. Appreciate you having me on, Mike. It's going to be awesome. Yeah, dude. And the first thing like kind of right off the bat was an exciting topic I wanted to dive into with you is like, again, this is a very broad kind of potential category, but the idea of like what actually matters in our training, I think you kind of alluded to it before we went live. To me, that jumps out as the intensity of things. I know there's a variety of things, but I'm curious your thoughts on like, what do you think is some of the biggest things that matter in training that people might actually be missing? Maybe that's more specificity that I can add to it. Yeah, I'll start with this with the intensity piece is strategically implemented stress. Like there are days that should be purposely harder. And there should be days that should be purposely you take the gas off, but it doesn't mean that your intent is different. It just means that maybe the movement that you're selecting itself is just a bigger driver. And that's what drives the intensity. And I can give you an example, like your squat, your squat day, is easily the most intense day because it involves so much musculature but a bench day is not so much i would label that more of a medium intensity type of thing and then deadlift or a clean would be a high intensity day as well because it's just there's so many things involved it doesn't mean that nearly you're not getting activated because the bench will still do that and it's a great tool for it But the bigger the movement, the more muscles involved, the higher the intensity. So you need to balance that with things like walking or light circuit work or even just do abs for ten minutes because that's not going to kill you. It's going to burn, but it doesn't kill you. Yeah. And so there's actually a framework. Do you mind if I like jump into a framework? I curious to maybe put these things in and I'm wondering on this, one of the like things I use in coaching, and this is not just in like strength, more of like a general health coaching umbrella is these like four variables of having awareness, having an intention, a clear action, and then obviously accountability. That's where coaching comes in place. So I think of awareness as like, okay, For example, what's our intensity? Having awareness to how much intensity and how do we either dial it back or dial it up? The intention is, okay, why are we using this intention or intensity, I should say. And the action is, what's the movement? So my point of putting these variables into play is giving people context to how they can apply it. So you mentioned with the squat, for example, And I'm kind of curious when you do that, this is like, you had a great post the other day. I guys, I highly recommend you check out Jeff, especially on Instagram, being able to look at, it can be very tempting to do like the sexy new movement or like the sports specific thing. And we can get really complex. And I tend to want to get very complex with things at times, but like keeping it simple and effective. So thinking about that framework, I mean, take people at home. Cause you don't just, that's the cool part. You work with athletes and with fighters specifically and all variety of athletes but even the like dad at home watching this being able to apply their programming and their training when you're working with them what do you think something that they can apply with their intensity or again back to that mistake is like the intentionality to it where do you see do you see most people pushing too hard you see them not pushing enough or just maybe depends on the person yeah i think it really depends on the person there's a sweet spot for everything like for fighters for instance they never really separate their days. Like with, with the guys that I train, we lift on days where you really bang or it's a hard roll on the mats. Like that's, those are the days. Cause those are neural days. Those are high demand days. And then the days that are more technique days, we drop it down. So, all right, well now it's, now it's a cardio day. Cardio doesn't mean it's easy. Cardio just means that we're, we're regulating the range. So I'm thinking a heart rate of one twenty to one forty is a lower day. Um, and then again, like their, their hardest day is their live day in the gym. So when you're in fight prep, you know, those final eight weeks, so you have really have six or seven Saturdays to think about it. Cause that's game day. That's the day we want to plan for is the day that you're going to actually go into competition. That should be probably the hardest day of each week. So for me, that's always a third lift day. So we do some circuit work on top of hard circuit work. I don't mean easy circuit work. It's hard circuit work coupled with a heavy movement because it almost replicates the demand of the sport. so it gets heart rates up and running gets the neural demand part we're building more strength and then they go and do their thing and we're out and it's like we're one week closer to raising the hand so it's just just gets them in rhythm and i think that's kind of the bigger thing is even for a dad you need to find some sort of circadian rhythm that you can follow Now you need to follow. I think of your heaviest demand work days. Okay. Well, why do your hardest strength training day after a day that you're completely wiped out from meetings and travel and all the things that could possibly go wrong, like just Buy a band, bring it with you, knock it out that day. Then, you know, with the coming home from off the travel day, go for a walk because that's the time to bring it back down and reset yourself. So it's it's for everyone's different. You said it's like athletes. I think it's a lot more fun because it's you're pulling big levers and something's at stake. Yeah. And I wonder if this feels, at least from my experience of the, some of the crew that you're training, right? Like when I think about like, whether it's Justin or Christian or Deuce, or even like with Johnny in the past, like there's no, from my perspective, I'm curious yours. It's like, it's, it's not as much of a problem that they can push. Like you can let them off the leash and go like they're definitely the ability. It's almost sometimes the opposite. I don't know if you, that, that was hard for me even when I was an athlete working with my coaches is like when it's time to pull back, when it's time to be intentional with recovery and not just like forcing it for the sake of forcing it. A hundred percent. Like Christian was a guy before I'd worked with him that, I mean, he'd go hard all the time. This is just from what I've heard. And seeing his numbers come in, I think he topped out at like a five hundred trap hard deadlift. In our last prep, I think he pulled six twenty five and it looked like it floated off the ground. So it was, it's just, again, being strategic about what you're trying to do and also allowing for stress to come off. We want things to ride in waves. You know, you catch the wave when you catch the wave and that's a hard fucking day. Don't get me wrong. But when that wave comes back down, we need to accommodate for that. And also, I mean, the other piece that really gets lost is just the nutrition piece and making sure they're fed. Because it's hard to go like you want to when you don't have a gas tank food-wise. So the more fed that you can keep them for the longer period, probably the better. Yeah. And that's, that's something I appreciate you talking about the nutrition side of it too. Cause the other side, I'm wondering maybe your perspective on the performance oriented, not only for athletes and like high performance in the physical arena, but even like, let's say the dad or someone that's, I've been thinking of like, let's say you were maybe an athlete, you had kids, you're, you're letting that part of your life go and you're getting back into it is the ability to recover. The ability to not just recover by like, okay, cool. I'm going to take four hours off or six hours off in between training. I'm going to intentionally fuel, hydrate, and then also get good night's sleep, do all those pieces. Because that was the thing, I'll be honest, where I noticed I would not put as much value into. I was also my caffeine timing when I was in my early twenties. I learned a lot from managing my stimulant intake. If we're even doing like, you know, caffeine and those types of things and my sleep because training wouldn't finish till ten o'clock at night and then trying to get to bed before two o'clock. I had to be very intentional to learn that process. So this is a long way of getting at the balance. Also, you mentioned nutrition. You also have a great protocol for what I've seen is like the three to one kind of method. Right. And like mindful of that and your macros, but also on the sleep side to like being very intentional with. I would even like as I got more into my mid to late twenties, like getting nine, ten hours of sleep, not seven or eight, like really push. And again, you just have total numbers versus the quality of sleep. But I'm curious, even your perspective on that, the sleep side of it, too, and the recovery aspect of it. Yeah, like the sleep part is kind of a hard one. It's one that I feel like if you get, if you feel like you're rested, it's more deep sleep than anything else. And like I think like a whoop will tell you that. If your deep sleep is under an hour, then like it's kind of hard to get anything going. But the deeper and more restful your sleep can be, whether it's six or seven hours or nine or ten. Like for me, I don't sleep past six hours. So I generally go to bed at, eleven p.m and i get up at five it's just i'm on a clock my dad's the same way he sets his internal clock and he's up so you really can't change that wiring i don't think but a nap during the day for sure can help you like this you know close your eyes for ten minutes just remove all distractions get your phone away from you turn off the wi-fi in the house because that has another huge draw on you whether you think so or not And just when all those levers aren't met, nutrition, sleep, start looking at things like contrast showers or Epsom salt baths that can really increase the quality of your recovery. Even like banded stretching, which is like... if you ever look up on youtube the dick hartzell um d-i-c dick is his first name hartzell h-a-r-t-z-e-l-l he's got a band stretch routine on that thing that will turn you like stripper pole ready within about a month so like it's it's all of it kind of rolls into one if you're lacking in one area we'll focus on that area for a while you can't just do a multitude of things all at once you know basically just do a self-evaluation of where you're currently at and then just you know work on one thing and improve that and move to the next you know yeah so that's actually something i kind of want to segue into you talking about being intentional or what i'm tell me if i'm misinterpreting what you're saying is like being intentional with your focus right and not trying to do all the things because if we let's say move five variables all at once how do you know even what worked i mean a hundred percent a little bit, but like, okay, cool. We're going to move this one variable intentionally for a predetermined period of time. And then we get to reflect on the data and then make another adjustment. And then that's, what's kind of cool, especially when you get to work with fighters or whomever the either athlete or your client is. And from my experience too, it's like you start to get into particular rhythms, right? Routines and saying, okay, cool. Like whether it's weight cutting or how they peak for a particular event, or even let's say you're dad at home watching this, being able to, I noticed like seasonally too, there's certain rhythms that I'll get into where I'll notice people get into and pending on school, letting out right. Stress factors when we're traveling, being mindful of, Hey, okay, you are going to be getting back. You're not going to be getting a lot of sleep. We're going to make that look a little potentially different than if you're like, Hey, you got full night rest, not a very heavy caseload for the day or whatever your workday looks like there. We can really get after it. So, um, Yeah, I wonder, like, even just the thoughts on, like, when you are picking one variable, you kind of already answered, so I'm just going to dive a little bit deeper for context so people don't miss it, is when you're picking, it sounds like it's dependent upon circumstance, right, and where someone's at. where their goals are at and where they're testing. I'm wondering, cause you, you actually sent me something really cool. Not only as it seems like as a part of school, but also an assessment tool that I thought was pretty awesome in being able to do certain movements and then it grades you, or I don't want to misrepresent what you're saying here, but, or what its intention, but I think that's really cool. And also doing that, not just for fighters, but let's say the dad at home that wants to like elevate their, his health, his fitness, and it can kind of tear you accordingly too, which I think is really cool. And then you can pick maybe one variable and focus on that, but I'm going to stop ranting. I kind of want to kick it to you to see like, if that even aligns with the intention of that assessment tool as well, because yeah, you can use it for fighters, but I wonder even again, the dad at home watching this or whomever in their forties and fifties, if they can find value in that as well. Yeah, I think so because they're really general assessments. Like a two-minute push-up, it's going to tell you pretty much what your upper body strength is from a strength and an endurance angle. Sit-ups, again, it's more strength endurance. Your pull-ups is what I consider like the king of upper body lifts. How many maximal dead hang pull-ups can you do? What's your twelve-minute run time? I'm sorry, your twelve-minute run distance. and then how long does it take you to bring yourself back down to a hundred and twenty beats per minute after that because that's a big one too we look at resting heart rate which again that's a key metric for everybody the lower you can get your heart rate towards about fifty around that fifty range the better you are CO two tolerance is another one that gets completely overlooked so that's where the breath hold comes in the more talented CO two you are the harder you're going to be able to push and then three hundred yard shuttles and a broad jump are the other metrics that it looks at. But yeah, it puts out a star chart for you and it shows you, you know, the weaker you are, the closer you are to the middle on something, you need to work on it. The farther it is out to the web, that's a strength, an area of strength. So you could really use that as a way to just, all right, here's where I'm at now. What's the next steps? And, you know, I've got the next steps already. you know so which is pretty cool that's inside school but uh it's a huge tool it doesn't really look so much at the recovery piece but if you think about resting heart rate your resting heart rate spikes when you're under stress like the body only knows stress it doesn't know where it's coming from So if you're stressed from school or if you've had a heavy workout or if you just have problems at home with so-and-so, it doesn't matter. Body only understands stress and that's going to affect some things. And resting heart rate is the first thing that will spike up and you'll notice that. Yes. I kind of, speaking of stress, this is kind of a side step, but I'm going to tie it in. I'm just curious. Cause one of the things about being honest, I've talked about this recently and in general, I was like, I gotta be honest. I struggle with having fun. And I mean, as like a dad, all the things that we're managing. So I like to ask people when I get to talk to them, Like, what do you do for fun? As a dad, as a business owner, as like, it's just a busy person that also manages life. Like what's fun for you right now? Cause that, I think that ties into stress too. Like the more fun capacity and fulfillment we have, I think the more of a capacity we have for stress, it doesn't maybe necessarily eliminate all of it, but the capacity for it, I think also goes hand in hand potentially. yeah so like i really enjoy watching my kids play sports i think that other dads that watch their kids play sports are hilarious because they take it way too serious when they got nine-year-olds out there like i'm sorry bro but your nine-year-old is not mlb bound just let him have fun so i think that's a lot you know for me it's just a joy to be outside i enjoy going outside for a long walk it helps me clear my head the thing that i probably enjoy the most and it's is coaching like i remember i remember being a young strength coach and just i would spend eighty hours in that room it didn't matter i would get in there at four in the morning to go train and i would leave six seven pm it didn't matter to me like because i would just the energy we could bring in that room and just lit it up and then there was a period of time for me where i didn't have that Like from twenty eleven until about how it was twenty twenty one where I finally got back in. Other than that, I'd done remote programming during that during that time. So it's exciting to see results. But you miss that one on one interaction and feel in the room and like you can feel intensity and you can bring intensity and you can drive it up and drive it down. And like like right now, I'm like having so much fun because I'm doing this twice a day, morning and after school. And man, it like it makes my day go by like that. So, you know, my my job or my my coaching profession, you could say, is where I have a lot of fun because like it's our rooms are booming right now. Like kids are pumped. Like we hit we did what's called reverse band bench yesterday. So I stick a light band on top of the rack and tie it to the bar. Guys are touching three hundred pounds for the first time in their life, and they're freaking fifteen. So it's, they're like, holy crap. Like, now you're getting a taste. Like, now you know what I'm excited about. Because every day I come in here and tell you it's a big effing day, because it is. They feel the intensity from me. They feel the energy. And man, the room just shoots up. So that's a hundred percent. That's my great joy right now. I very much appreciate that. So, and that makes me think of actually like high school football or, so I only played one year of football by the way. It was like JV, but I also enjoyed working out with the team in the off season and stuff like that. And it makes me think of like the, and I don't know if they, they everywhere, maybe it's different now, but like, let's say you, you hit like a particular number, like, all right, the thousand pound club, they have a shirt or whatever the thing is. Like they reassured maybe not about the measurables, but when you have like, a team of people around you and you got that one person lifting and you got your spotters and you're pushing for that new PR and just when you get it racked or when you get it up and the room lights, like I love the energy for PRs. Like if you want to PR, that's the environment, right? Like that's why I think it's such an interesting dynamic of like, you could try and PR solo or like have certain spots that sure. But that type of electricity is amazing. hundred percent, but there's nothing like it. Like when I was at SEMO, um, our football team, which would, would test at midnight. So all we do is have a spotlight on the plot on two platforms and squat day. And we had a kid who was an offensive lineman. Um, he, he box squatted six Oh five. takes a step three quarters of the way up gathers it and stands up it's the dumbest thing i've ever seen strength-wise and it's you know i've seen guys thought it's quite a thousand and that dude when he just steps and he's like oh Stands up with it, puts it away. I was like, holy crap. I've never seen anything like that before. But like the room just freaking exploded. Like it's that kind of thing. Like having people around you, like-minded individuals, like all towards that same goal. Like there's nothing like it. And people can say that they had no excitement. And for me, like there's nothing better. Yeah, and that's what I appreciate about Rogue, Rogue Combat Club in Asheville where you have a lot of people like Johnny Spot. And that's one thing I've recognized is this is a sad intention I've set, but I'll just talk about it. My intention for a period of time, I moved away where I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm Just like getting there once a month, be around it. Now, as I'm moving, I'm going to be about twenty minutes, fifteen minutes away from the gym and like another month. I get to be in there weekly and I can feel even just last week going in there. I was talking to Cord, who's one of the jujitsu guys. And like we actually talk about some questions came in. He had some questions, too, and some other people submitted some questions that I'll bring up. in a little bit, but it's like just that vibe, the energy between Deuce and like even when Christian's in there and Jack, it's very much value when Johnny's in there and like that type of energy. And also the other part is like, the experience and the connections you have, like the bonding, the oxytocin, like that bonding component to it is I think so potent. The, it's just such a strong driving force. So yeah, anyways, that's a long understanding. Like I really do appreciate your point of fulfillment and like how that can be fun and the connections that come from that and how that lights you up. Cause they can see even just how you talk about it. Like body language doesn't lie. You know what I mean? Like I said, there was a time where I was away from it. Like my first three years of being out of the college scene, man, it was rough. Like I was suicidal as hell, man, because I missed that shit so much. And there's no way to replicate it. You can stem yourself up as much as you want, but nothing makes you feel like that. And trust me, I was... ECA three times a day just to try to get some energy just to feel it. But no, nothing compares to that at all because you said it yourself, it's the bonding part of it too. It's the people around you because they bring you up whether you want to be up or not. An old boss a long time ago told me, he said, if you don't bring energy to the room and you bring the intention that you want into there. So if you come in and half-ass it, they're going to half-ass it. So that fixed it for me. It's like, okay, well, you got to be on all the time. Like you need a nap after that, after a while, but don't get me wrong. But when you come in there and you're lit up, there's no reason why they want. And they just, the kids take care of themselves. Yeah. And to your point, it's like, it's electric and there's, it's almost like its own type of like bandwidth conditioning. What I mean by that is having that type of a day takes a certain level of bandwidth and energy that you like accumulate to. But then when you have, this is an interesting, I'm curious your thoughts on like the energetic capacity. Like, yeah, we can have a physical physiological like capacity, right. For work. But I would even think like a cognitive capacity when you're in that type of, there's a certain capacity and battery you've established for yourself, a workload that when you lose it, that to me also like that, that was like when I retired from fighting, like I was like, all right, I'm not competing anymore in the like real fighting sense. I'll still do like jujitsu tournaments and stuff, which is like enjoyable. It was just different is like, yeah. What do you do with that energy? So to your point, like I, I very much appreciate like the, having that capacity and relighting you up. And then also you for having your kids to just be a part of that. And like you getting to lead them and be that role model is also just extra inspiration. I would speculate. I know that is from my experience. Like I have all daughters though. They're under eight, but like, it's still just super exciting. Yeah. Like by my boys, my wife posted a video yesterday. It was of my oldest when he was Three and a half or four. And then my now twelve year old. So they were both very little. And they're in there and they're jumping over top of one of those little red foam blocks. The oldest was. And then she posted a video of Reese's box jump. He's hit a forty two inch box jump just standing with straight legs. By straight legs I mean he jumps and his legs are like this and just sticks it. Oh, okay. Yeah. Yeah. So it's not tucking his legs. It's just stick. Yeah. And like, just to think of it in that way. It's like, Oh, man. like like time flies so by by so fast but like the thing i've always wanted was the opportunity to have to to get the chance to coach him and then to kind of see what what i really can be like other than just being being dad and having to you know there's an authoritative aspect of it but let actually let me let them see me socially What am I around other kids? Because it's a totally different environment, you know, totally positive in a different way, you know. So it's great now to have that and to know that all my other three are going to come to that same room before I decide to hang up, hang it up. It's pretty awesome. Yeah. All right. So that's, that's actually another component is like, so we have the, the aspects of focus on training, right. When it comes to an intentionality, I'll go back to intentionality. So there could be a performance dynamic. One of the things I wanted to like stack on top of that is as we get outside of athletics, not just like, I feel like athletics is great to do the rest of your life. Like for one, even if just for the fun, like find something that you can do and enjoy, it makes it a lot less resistance oriented from my experience. But yeah, point to all of that is when it comes to real life and like functional training, I'm putting it in quotes. Cause it's like, you could do a lot of things and we can get like really overly complicated about wonder when you think about dads, I keep going back to dads. Cause that's what I do nowadays. what are some of the things you think they should care about when it comes to their training? Like things we could take from the gym and apply to real life. Like I think of like, let's say certain grip strength things or carries. Like one of the things I think about, this is a weird one. If like, God forbid something happens, I want to be able to pick up all my kids and run. That's like a really important thing to me. Like run a mile with like a hundred pounds. Ideally I'm not doing that a whole bunch because of the load and like all those things. But like, like the weighted farmer carries things like that. But yeah, a bit of a rant i'm curious to kick from your perspective though again the the training side in real life so are you asking from an exercise side with what what dad should be able to do yeah and like what just in your opinion from like a your coaching side of it and like what you know about like for life because like most people we don't we don't really need to run like a mile with like a hundred pounds of weight correct correct so i think that should probably be able to do some form of squat with probably one point two five percent of your body weight that's more than enough strength to get to carry you through um i've read something where you're the top one percent of the entire world if you can squat four or five which i thought that was kind of hilarious because because a long time ago i was like oh okay well that's that's not very much now now i'm a little bit older and it's like okay well maybe one point two five sounds a lot better because things creep like they don't used to you should probably be able to bench press your body weight. Pull-ups is the biggest one on my end. I think that the bare minimum should be able to do five pull-ups. If you are closer to ten to fifteen, I think that you're in a really good spot. In terms of like a physical challenge, I think everybody should do. I think everyone should do walking lunges for one mile, just to feel what that is. And in one of my older programs, that was our test day, is go out and, all right, we've done work. Now go walk and lunge a mile. And if you can do that, you know that you're in a pretty good spot because you have, essentially in my eyes, you have every physical capacity you need for your lower body and you're able to do that. And you've got a little bit of grit too because it sucks doing any more than five or ten lunges. Now couple that to a mile and now we're talking. And you kind of touched on it a little bit. Probably being able to run a mile and not feel like that you're about to pass out would be a good thing. Yeah. Having some sense of endurance. Yeah. Because that's, that's a big one. Like you don't have to do, you don't have to run though. That's kind of the thing. Like I think if someone gets on a bike, say a dad, get on the bike twice a week for forty, thirty to forty five minutes. Go, go for a thirty to forty five minute walk a couple of days a week. And you've covered pretty much every aerobic tool, every aerobic base that you need because you just need the base because that's what drives the heart. And the more efficient your left ventricle is, the more ejection fraction, like you, you have, your heart doesn't have to work nearly as hard, no matter what intensity zone that you're actually at. Because the hardware and the plumbing is there. And that's, that's the big one is, is making sure that the plumbing's there. Ooh, yeah. All right. So that's impactful. So one of the things that I'll highlight, one of the things I always like to try and take away from conversation or pieces is like a one singular thing they can do is taking action on one thing. So it's like to take all information and boil for everyone to do one thing I know is not very simple. It's like asking for a lot to oversimplify. But thinking about a framework maybe on inviting how someone can do one thing. And one of the things that jumps out to me is like, for example, using your assessment tool. Like, Hey, get a baseline assessment of where things are at. Cause then that informs you what direction to potentially go in. And that's one of the things that jumps out to me is I would invite like, for those of you considering this and like, wait, what do I do with this? It's like, yeah, do a baseline like assessment. Jeff has one, created it, and part of the community has. And that's accessible through, I want to make sure I don't misrepresent where they can access the assessment that you have. So I'm curious, where could be the best way for them to get that? Is it through school? Is it through the website? Like, where is the best way for them to access that? They can find that on the school community. Yeah, perfect. Also, I mean, if they want the link, someone just reach out to me on Instagram. I'll shoot you the link. It's there. I look at my body of work not necessarily as it's a one-to-one, but if I can teach one person and they can teach three and they can teach three, then guess what? I've done my part because at least the message is getting relayed. I might not ever die as a millionaire, and that doesn't matter. But if I've given enough people information that they need to be successful, then that's what really matters. Because it's more about being healthy and more about being of service to a community that's much bigger than me. And that's what matters. Dude, so one of the things that jumps out of what you said is like a really impactful purpose for me is like transforming the world with health and empowering people in their bodies. Like my idea is like, by the time I lay my head down for the last time in this existence is like, I wanna have a true impact. And to your point, it's not just like the, okay, I need to personally talk to a million people or whatever the number is. It's like, yeah, just having the ripple effect of like, So I love even, I think about Justin, right? Like with what Justin's doing, not only just being, and like all of them actually, but like what's cool with Justin is like what he's created with his own business and like being able to see that development as a martial artist, as a fitness person, as a trainer, as a coach. It's like, think about now, like the influence you've had on him, right? And what that does and the ripple effect, that alone, plus all the other athletes you've worked with, the coaches, what you give inspiration to, the content you create, that I think is a really powerful. So I just want to acknowledge that. But yeah, this is a long way of getting out like, What is one thing you think that you would invite for someone to take action on? Again, my biased opinion is like using an assessment tool like what you created because that informs a lot of things. But what could be one thing that you would invite, again, for the person watching at home that they could take action on today that helps align their exercise selection or their training modality? I know it's like a loaded question. Don't even have to do the assessment. You need to have an internal dialogue with yourself. What are you pushing off that you're not doing? That you know if you do it, you're going to be better. And if you just circle that thing at the top of your list and like that's the thing I'm going to attack, then you're going to be successful. But you've got to go all in. Like it's not a dip my toe in because that's not trying. That's not doing. Try is do or don't. Like to go all in on one thing and do that for three months. And then look at look at your where you began, you know, kind of monitor your process. You could you could journal I don't care what it is that you do. You're a person that has a hard time getting your feelings out. Just writing on a piece of paper every day what what's in your mind is going to make you a better person because you're going to be more self aware. But in terms of fitness, you think of the one thing like man, I wish I could do this. That frickin go all in. Why the hell not? What do you have to lose? Cause it's just you like, no, the world's not looking at you to be like, ha ha ha. You failed. Like those people are assholes anyway. Like, why would you listen to them? It's you against you. And that's the truth. That's such a good one. So yeah, so something that like jumps, this is like a phrase I've used before. It's like, sometimes I hear people say like, I don't know a lot. I've done this before, but it's like, I always will give pushback and be like, you do know, you're the expert on you. You live in your body every day. You know, like there's a part of us that knows, right? Maybe we don't want to look at it. Maybe there's a part that doesn't want to acknowledge it. And all right, I get that. I've been there. I like, I totally get that component. But it's like, you know, we all know, like to your point. So I appreciate what you're actually inviting. I hadn't thought about that as like a, yeah, do an honest check-in. And that's, I'll tie it back into that formula. Like, cool. Have awareness, right? Bring awareness to what it is. You have an intentionality of like, I'm going to go all in. And then you're clear on the action of what is all in. What does that look like? All right, cool. I'm going to do, I'm going to make this up. Like, I'm going to do like, one of the things I've been enjoying is like, A progression for VO two max training. I don't necessarily love running if I'm being honest, but it's very accessible for me right now. So I just use it. So I'll do four minutes of just like zone five, like keep my heart rate above one seventy and I'll do four minutes walking. I do that for four rounds. So it's like thirty percent. Right. Like it's accessible. It's not that crazy time. I do it two, three times a week. Feels good. And like, you know, like I'm working hard for those four minutes. I like doing it for like jump rope swimming. My point is like, there's an action tied to it. And then ideally accountability and it, whether it's getting a coach, whether it's telling a friend, whether it's just sharing with a loved one, whether that's what I love about also the training room. Like think about that room. There's like natural accountability built in. People know when you're not there, they miss you. There's like an aspect of like, you bring a part of the equation to the table. Like you bring a part of the formula to it. That I think is really valuable from the accountability. I hear a lot of times with people when they were athletes and they don't anymore, they miss that like accountability, that camaraderie, that part of it too. Oh, for sure. I mean, it's, it's hard to, to work at a high level and then you wake up the next day and it's like, I'm retired. let's you got fifty more years you're not you're not totally retired things have changed it doesn't mean that the dog ever let you know has left the the yard the dogs is in its house man let them out yeah Yeah. Oh, that's a good one too. Yeah. Being able to like leverage that component of it and not pretend like it's not there. So yeah, I kind of want to like now pivot a little bit. We're going to kick to some Q and A if that's cool with you. I have some questions coming in. Also, this is like a thank you to our sponsor BioLore. So this is actually, I want to take a moment here. This is where I like, I like to call this out. So I, we, I'm really fortunate. We have a sponsor for this segment BioLore. They're a CMOS gel company. The one thing I like to be very clear when it comes to like, whether it's like the sea moss gel i have behind me or they have gummies and stuff it's like to me this is like the last ten percent of the equation if that like it's like it can be cool to have all this stuff but we talked what you talked about is like sleep nutrition intense very clear training that's like the foundational stuff so i just want to be clear with everybody while they're a sponsor i like bio lore i love what they do i use their gummies and stuff like you can invest in that stuff, but I would be very intentional with before you start doing into that stuff, be very clear with these other parts. Like even what you said before, Jeff, being able to check in with yourself. Like, do you think the gap between you and your goals is CMOS gel? If it is cool, like if you really honestly think that, that's great. Take action. But I'm willing to bet there's other controllable variables. Now that doesn't mean I don't take in, I use it and that could be a helpful component, but like, even if I miss it for a day, my goals, it's not like I'm drastically shifting my goals, to be honest with you. So anyways, that shout out to them as a sponsor. I like to highlight that, but I also don't want to like, I don't like creating this illusion. Like it's some magic formula, but that's a transition into the questions. And one of the really reoccurring question that came in, that was right away as I've put it is people are asking a lot about exercise selection and order specifically around like, cause you mentioned this before too, is like, the central nervous system, the tax around nervous system and exercise selection related to that, and how we can start to structure workouts. And whether it's like, I wanna put a lot of the taxing stuff first, then I'll have a little break, I'll pair it with less taxing. And I'm curious your thoughts when it comes to exercise selection, not only for like an athlete, but just your day-to-day person, How you like to look at that? Again, I know it's a very broad question. There's a little more specificity that will probably come in handy, depending on who the athlete is and what's going on. But I'm just curious from that, because that was a common question coming in. so i'll begin with this i i think that there are two main training days per week you need to look at a day that's heavy lower body and more repetition upper body and by repetition i mean that's your bodybuilding for upper body day so you don't touch a barbell during that part so your heavy lower body stuff should be a movement that's easily accessible for you at first so begin with say it's a squat or a leg press begin with leg press it's just joe small off the street yeah so work up to a to a heavy set of six to ten reps make sure that you can control the weight and then look to try to make a five or ten pound jump each week on that big movement uh prior to that i always like to do jumping because jumping is a skill that for the athlete it's key because power output is necessary but also for the person that needs to become more athletic one of the first things that goes is jumping it's jump ability they lose that reactivity within the ankles and the knees and they're no longer able to express force which is why they can't run so heavy lower body repetition upper body for day one and we just flip it for day two so it's going to be a heavy upper body and it's going to be a repetition lower body so like my heavy upper body day is going to be some form of bench press variation a lot of people will say don't do bench press it's going to do x y no no no just find a bench press variation that works for you I have a specific pattern that I bring guys through because it's freaking foolproof every time. But again, look at what you're able to do if your shoulders have restricted range of motion because you're older and you have rotator cuff pain and whatnot. Put yourself on a Smith machine and put it on an incline. because that'll take a lot of that stress off. And then pair that with some sort of rowing movement or a vertical pull. This could be lat pull-downs, could be pull-ups. And then you've got your, again, repetition lower. So that's your hamstring work. That's your quad work, your direct work, single leg work. And always finish with some kind of low back and ab work because that's a missing link for a lot of people. The older you get, That's another first thing that's going to go is your low back strength, which causes you to tilt your pedals forward, and now your belly's hanging out, and now you've got back pain. Now you go to a chiropractor. It's causing you problems. If you're going to do a third day, throw in a big overhead press. Could be a machine overhead press like this is what I'm talking about. Or with a barbell if your shoulders are good. If not, dumbbells do just fine. And then do some calisthenics as a circuit after that. because again your body your ability to control your body within space is what matters and if you can't control your own body how can you expect to control someone else's so so once you do all that it all takes care of itself you beautify in about four weeks and you're a totally different person yeah so i wonder if this like feels true i don't want to misrepresent like west side barbell methodology but it sounds like a similar like kind of like foundational capacity and i appreciate that i've looked at like different even modalities around it, but that helps. Like, it sounds like you can keep it simple, right? Like keep a structure. Cause then the cool thing is what I'm hearing you say too, is you can keep this structure and then you can start to cycle exercises. Cause that's the thing I like to think about like a year block, right? When we start to like really pull back. He's like, okay, I can take a very similar structure and we can rotate it. And let's just say like incline bench press. And I have a particular set and tempo and rest period. And I can take almost the same workout structure and then just, all right, either change the angle, change the tempo, change the timing or rest period. And you can get a different like aspect of it, almost a different aspect of the program. So it doesn't have to be overcomplicated. Now I know people can argue like, oh, that's not optimal, whatever. It's like, I don't know. I think sustainability is what's optimal. Like what's going to be sustainable, what you can do. You mentioned even like ironically, I'm actually going through PT right now because I have rotator cuff tears in both my shoulders and a labrum tear in my hip, which is just powerful. That's painful. That's painful. Yeah, it's part of the fun for just fighting and martial arts. Like I very heavily checked with my left leg and that's like deciding there's a lot of force absorption and other things. Also dealing with like, I don't know why this would ever come, but like I've mentioned this in the past and just not being able to talk with you. Like I've herniated discs, both in my like lumbar and cervical and like some of those things, which doesn't have to be a complete like, stopper is just being able to work around it right and i think you mentioned being able to modify but you still use a structure like that structure it still seems to hold true and the one thing i i i know this isn't as accessible for everyone but i love and i miss this when i used to live in new york i had a pool he's having water workouts and now where i'm actually moving we're gonna in the apartment complex there's gonna be a pool that's one thing i i or go to the y right like I really enjoy water workouts. This is a side note. This has nothing to do with exercise selection. I just want to throw that out there. I really enjoy that, especially for my athletes or fighters. I would notice that was helpful for like impact, but still be able to get a really good work or recovery just for sure. And all of that. Yeah. Back when I was at Canisius college, we would do, um, we do water workouts once a week. Um, it's kind of funny. Like I had a kid from Africa and he was completely terrified of water. The guy was six, seven, and he would not go in three foot water. It's like, dude, you've got a belt around you. It's holding you up. You're like, no, no, no, no water. So it's real interesting, but it's a good way to keep your heart rate up. It can crank it up. You can do some circuits with that. You know, it's like thirty seconds hard, thirty seconds easy. Just go on for ten, fifteen minutes, you know, and really they're done and it doesn't put that joint banging on you. So it's a great tool. yeah and you also said like the rotation of exercises which is what i do all the time like i i look at I get video from all my guys that train me. I train online and I look for weak points in the chain and it's all right. Well, if you, if you suck out of the hole, like you can't, you can't get out of, out of the bottom of a squat. Okay. Well, let's get you to a high box squat or let's put you in a position at that sticking point and then drive out of that and get stronger. And next, you know, next, then we'll cycle into a new movement. Usually like a Zurcher box squat or something like that. which is money. I mean, it is an exercise that cures all, and it doesn't have that cervical pressure. It simulates for grappler. It's one of the best things you could possibly do. And I could tell you this because I was at the Olympic Training Center up in Michigan when we trained our Greco guys, and it was a key metric. As that Zurcher squat went up, they got better on the international level. So that was part of our testing protocol that we did. So Zurcher squats are one, if you're a grappler, that's one that you should probably implement. And then from there, put it back on the box, you know, put the bar on the back, box squat again, all ailments are gone, weights are skyrocketing. So really that's a, for me, a three or four block period. You know, we're talking twelve to sixteen weeks and you got a bigger squat. yeah now i'm to your point like i love searcher variations just in general like also like this is a weird uh maybe variable but i thought it was like as a dad like i think there's some interesting like translation or just value like listen if you can do searcher squats you do like let's even say one one to one ratio of your body weight for searchers for like whatever rep range or even one point five and you can handle that like You're strong. Yeah. Like you're gonna have a not so bad time with it. Cause I think of my daughters, right? Like I'm fortunate. My daughters still want me to hold them. They're all like seven, four, or I'm sorry, seven, six, four, and one. At some point, they're not going to want me to hold them. As long as they want me to hold them, I want to be able to hold all my kids. That's an important priority to me. So being able to have something like a Zercher or a variation to that and being able to have some kind of carry to it, really, I think I appreciate that component of it too. So yeah, that's a helpful recap is like in the exercise selection and order. So this is like another question that kind of came up that maybe pairs with the video that you made the other day is like the specificity, right? So those of you, again, make sure you're following Jeff on Instagram. That's like my takeaway from this too. That's another actionable you could take away for this. But, and again, you alluded to it. We don't have to go into the exact ratios, but the idea of, and maybe it's not exactly sports specific, I should say, but this is one thing I'm curious, your thoughts on is like, planes of movement. And I'll try and word that differently for people watching. So instead of thinking like frontal, sagittal and transverse, like lateral movements versus like moving forwards and backwards and like rotational things like twisting and turning. Cause like I tend to late again, when I'm leaning on a lot of squats and lunges and Bulgarian split squats and things like that, I'm moving in a particular plane, but adding in either rotational things or lateral movements. That's where I've, I've honestly, I've had a hole in my game for a period of time. I've been very intentional lately on, um, lateral and rotational stuff to help bridge that gap. So I'm curious your thoughts on like not getting stuck even in our exercise selection into that, like moving in one plane. so you said it right there like the power lifting movements themselves lock you in that then to those movements so for bench press for instance i do a lot of rotational med ball slams after them so so we do you'll do a heavy set of bench you'll do some kind of shoulder isolation just to keep that part healthy because you need armor and then right into like a rotational slam or right into a slam that's straight to the feet because the rotational part is what gets lost and you see a lot of kids uh mainly when they go from high school into college and and they're more powerlifting based programs in college they'll start to get a little bit locked up so being able to implement things like that really helps uh in terms of like the lateral movement itself i think something like a lateral squat where your feet are wide your toes are pointing straight ahead you could do like a caustic squat where you're basically your ass to ankles on one end which that's gonna test mobility your your groin will be bulletproof um i'm gonna kind of eat my own words here though too but i think a lot of people if they would sumo deadlift before they did any other type of deadlift I think they would be a lot better off anyway just because of the hamstring, the glute, and the adductor strength that it delivers because it allows those lateral squats to be more effective later on. So those are things to kind of consider. But I almost always prepare a jump with a heavy lower body movement. Even like on a lunge, we do Zurcher split squats right now with our football guys. And Deuce is doing them right now in his program too. because it builds so much horsepower it's not even funny and then we'll pair that up with a single leg box jump so we do something heavy we do something light so you're you're burning candles at both ends and you get more out of it and so that's kind of my recommendation even I'm going to get a little wonky here. Even something as simple as rope flow can unlock someone's back. And I know that for a fact because the more I do rope flow, the less I see a chiropractor. And I could feel like I can move around better. And you can find a winding rope on Amazon, I'm sure. And you can get a heavier one. You can get a light one. But once you start to learn how to move your body to move the rope, man, it's a totally different world. Oh yeah. I appreciate that. It's like, this is a weird kind of maybe tagging is I think of like one of the jobs I was like Tai Chi. So at one point I worked with like a geriatric population. They sent me to do certain types of Tai Chi training specifically for medical integration and geriatric populations. And like, again, I'm not saying we need to dive into like the movement of energy per se, but being able to have like body awareness and control and like even the like movement orientation and lubrication, as it were, if I oversimplify is valuable. And that's like so this actually is another question that comes in is like quite popular. is the idea of, you know, injury prevention. And if there should be like separation between training for injury prevention, versus like our training, and maybe what I mean by that is like, so we have these like blocks, right, you have to say these two and or three day blocks, you then add on top of that, you have separate dedicated days, or is it like, hey, we just change how we warm up and change how we cool down, or it just kind of feeds into it naturally with how you're programming. a lot of the the warm-up stuff i've i've done this since i was at simo which we integrate all of our activation with the warm-up so you go from dynamic warm-up into hip activation into ankle activation like the ankle activation for me comes as like pogo jumps so you get that ankle really flexible really really going and like last year i could tell you we had a without even running one of our one of our receivers dropped three tenths off his forward. He ran a four six without even doing anything. It was on lasers. He went from a four nine to a four six just by doing pogo jumps. So people want to say, oh, well, you need to sprint to get fit. No, no, no. You need to jump. And then if you sprint afterward, great for you. But if you don't have, if you live up in the tundra of Saskatchewan and all you can do is jump in a five by five area, dude, it'll make you faster. Um, hope I answered the question there. Cause I kind of, I kind of zigged and zagged. No, no, definitely. Like there's the answer. Here's what I took away is like how we can intentionally incorporate it as I'm going to put the warmup as the oversimplified category, the precursor to the training and then the activation room. That's like, cause it's like people are always, especially as we age and something comes up either. And there's this maybe story that'll be like, Oh, I don't want to get injured. I don't want to get hurt. Or like, that's why maybe I'll just run or I, I don't deadlift at all. And I guess that's another question. This is, curious when it comes to the deadlifts or certain types of either olympic lifting and or power lifting i know there's a lot of technique that can be oriented to it so people can get intimidated i wonder what you feel makes it most accessible when it comes to deadlift variations like i've heard a lot of like hey trap i'm a big fan of trap bar deadlifts like just can be more forgiving for maybe lack of a better term and or less technique now you don't need technique but It just simulates a movement. So I'm curious your thoughts on when it comes to that even part of the exercise selection and like injury risk, quote unquote. I look at being weak as the biggest possible risk of injury. If you are weak and you have a weak muscle area, you can guarantee that that will get injured at some point. You've mentioned the deadlift specifically. So trap bar deadlifts are the one. Like if you can't do anything, you can get yourself into a three-quarter squat and you can stand up with something. That transfers to every aspect of life. You will always have to pick up something heavier than what you want to have to pick up. So by getting stronger in that plane, you're better off. If you don't have a trap bar, there's a thing called a rack pull where you set the pins right below the kneecap. Just make sure your chest is up tall. You'll always be able to see the numbers and just pull that puppy up. You know, I like sumo rack pulls because, again, I like that adductor interaction. But, you know, rack pulls are freaking money. And they... it's a really it's a really cool movement after a while because you can really pile on some freaking weight but just getting into it and getting your body into position is key so if you have a restricted range of motion you start with a rack pull and then you just work your way down pin wise from where you started to where you're on the floor so being able to get stronger up here and all right okay well like push to three fifteen i'm gonna drop a pin i'm gonna start back where i started just work your way back up and it doesn't matter because life life is this indefinite rat you know rat race that you have so what's it matter if it takes you three years to get down to the floor for a deadlift you're stronger in every other position except for that one so you know that you're in a pretty good spot but trap bar would be my first pick and then rack pulls would be second oh yeah so that's this is actually a a separate kind of a question that comes out just want to put it in here because i think about you mentioned before also let's say using a reverse lift or support like band supported maybe for another term or like being able to also have accommodating resistance with bands or chains or things like that so i'm curious when it comes to accessories the specific part of the question is accessory type of equipment That is a good bang for our buck, whether maybe it's like chains or being able to like, I'm biased to bands, obviously. So like, I'll put that in there, but I'm curious that when it comes to your training equipment that you see is a really high return on investment. Be bands, bands, bands, bands is number one because they're so versatile. Like you can pick four different resistances and you have an unlimited amount of exercises you can literally do. From rows to curls to push downs for your triceps to shrugs to, you know, good mornings. Heck, you can put a band behind you, anchor your feet and do sit-ups. We call those Rambos and they're awesome. So really you can do a full body training session just with bands and you're completely set up. Yeah, I put them put them on top of a bar that you better have a base level of strength first of all, because that that's the other piece is that stuff can take a heavy especially if you're banding from the bottom. That's a heavy jar on you. So you need to make sure that you have a base level of strength before you attempt that. Yeah. You, you kind of, so I wanted to circle back to what you said before though, too, is like, let's say put three, on the bar and you also have like the band support or band assisted, just get lift off or even like assisted plyometric jumps and like being able to get really explosive dynamics there. That's where I see some cool. i don't know just like exciting training variations that really translate not only to performance but i think for just the day-to-day and like also changing it out like kind of making it fun i think there's something like kids right now like even myself like i'll put i have a pull-up bar in one of the other rooms i put the bands on it they just love bouncing on that thing it's just like inherently about it that's fun so i think that brings some even joy into our training too You know, band assisted jumps is something I've done for a long time. I saw Cal Dietz do a slide deck off a conference that he did in two thousand ten. i called him i said what can we do this different for jumps that's going to get more out of it he's like well strap a band to the top of the bars and let them go so we did we threw that in for a summer and our freaking jump heights went off the map so it's you know and that builds a certain level of reactivity that you're not accustomed to because you're that higher off the ground which means you have to absorb that much force when you come back through and then you can push back through so it's kind of a game But at the same time, I mean, it prepares the joints for something that they, that otherwise they might not get any use out of. They might not have, they might not ever have had that feeling. If that makes sense. Yeah, no, that's it. At least to me, it does. And then I think about like, even like how much time we spending on the ground, like quick turnover of it in the central, like certain training things that it affords and like inviting as a stimuli for the body, or at least like, uh, a training as it were, um, but yeah i like i appreciate you also entertain the questions um this is where like i i've kind of realized with my daughter i can hear my daughter free can you how's the audio sound you hear like screaming the other room yeah a little bit man because i got kids so i know what it sounds like you have the trained ears i don't know if you've ever been in public and you're just yes like right now it's like it's what we would call like this is the witching hour so i'm like all right that's my problem i'm probably gonna have to start to wind it down for the podcast um But, yeah, again, I'll just reiterate, guys, make sure you're following Jeff on Instagram, on school. You got the website. We have everything plugged in. You're watching not the live. You're watching the replay. That means below we have everything. Also, if you're watching on the website, because this is going to be a blog post, too, and I'll have to put some other stuff. I'll get some inches to put with this. So I have a blog post from it. We'll have it on our newsletter. We'll also have the podcast. You'll be able to see this if you're watching the replay or we repurposed it. We're going to have some little chops. I'll get all this stuff out to you, too, Jeff, so you'll have all of that. Awesome. and yeah, I just, thank you for taking the time and just, yeah, all the fun and all that you do. Thanks for like, just dude, what you do, man. Like I genuinely appreciate this. Like, cause I don't know if you, it sounds like obviously your care, but like if you really do understand the impact, cause I've seen from like, I've known Johnny maybe nine, eight years. Like you've known him way longer. And like, just being able to see like what, and the reason why he believes in you. And then with Deuce and with Christian and with Jag and like, I've seen these dudes from almost their first day in the gym to now because of the work you get to do with them. It's just, I don't know. I really appreciate it. Just as someone that's like a peripheral of their life. Thank you for like what you invest in these guys. And like, what you just do and the support and also from a coach like for that you work with kids and how you support them like i appreciate that so this is a long-winded of saying all the thanks and i appreciate you i appreciate it man like me and johnny go back to two thousand four man like i remember you you didn't see buck wild johnny buck dude i can't even fathom because he'll tell like some stories some aspect of stories um so i'm like i can't even i can't even imagine you know he he was buck nasty is that that's a hundred percent him well it sounds like a well-earned name you know yeah for sure i appreciate you having me on it's been a blast though dude yeah thank you so um i'm gonna wrap it up we'll we'll do all this thank you guys again make sure um in ipod there's like some comments and questions i was just like people were saying hey that i just kind of like breezed i tried to comment on it but um Yeah. Well, definitely. I'd love to have you come back on. We'll dive into more things. I'll send you some follow-up stuff after this, but I'm literally going to go like, turn this off, go tag in with hope. And hopefully we didn't miss the window, but yeah, Jeff, everybody have a great rest of the day. Appreciate you, brother. All right. Appreciate it. Take care.