Systems Over Willpower: The Summer Momentum Plan with Dr. Mak

Most people think healthy habits come down to discipline.

But what if the real answer is better systems?

In this episode of LOF Office Hours, Coach Mike sits down with Mikal “Dr. Mak” Giancola, DrPH, MPH, founder of Dr. Mak’s Superfoods, to talk about public health, applied systems research, food environment, summer momentum, and how to make healthy choices easier in real life.

Dr. Mak shares how his background in public health, chronic disease prevention, food systems, and entrepreneurship shaped the creation of Dr. Mak’s Superfoods, including his overnight oats.

Inside this episode, we cover:

• What public health actually is
• What makes DRPH different from a PHD
• How systems thinking applies down to everyday health
• Why habits break down when routines are changed
• Why food enviroment matters
• How meal prep protects bandwidth
• How summer disrupts routines, sleep, food choices, and movement
• How to reply less on willpower and more on structure
• Why adding healthy habits can naturally crowd out unhealthy ones

This conversation is for busy parents, professionals, athletes, entrepreneurs, and anyone trying to build a healthier lifestyle without starting over every few weeks.

Get coaching, structure, and accountability here!

Check out Dr. Mak’s Superfoods here!

Use code LOF during June for savings at checkout.

💭 Thanks for listening to The Lifestyle of Fitness Podcast with Coach Mike Caulo - NBC-HWC health coach, retired pro Muay Thai fighter, father of 4, and founder of the LOF 100-Day Comback System, 

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:02

All right. Welcome everybody. We have a special guest. Dr. Mack, thank you for joining us. We're going to be diving into it. I'm really excited about not only because it's summertime, building on our summertime series around building systems, but specifically, especially with you here, Dr. Mack, we're going to be diving into a little bit about where public health meets health and wellness, at least from the coaching side on our end. But before we dive into that, I kind of wanted to give you the platform and just say, please, A, introduce yourself, a little bit about your background, and then I'll like start pinning you with questions. And again, to introduce for everybody, if you have questions or watching this live, feel free to drop questions. Or if you end up watching the replay of this, wherever you're watching it, also drop questions. We're going to circle back. We're going to dive into things and we'll be able to follow up and circle back. But that being said, Dr. Mack, I'll let you kind of take the stage and introduce yourself, please.

SPEAKER_00 0:51

Thanks so much. And thank you, Coach Michael and Life of Fitness, for uh having me tonight. And uh I'm really happy to be here. And it's it's been great meeting you and coming in. So uh just a little bit of my background. I have a doctorate in public health and a master's in public health as well. I've spent uh about five years in infectious disease and a little over 10 years working in chronic disease, mainly cancer prevention, um, and uh within that working a bit on obesity uh and and and how how food affects our health. And uh that's what I wrote uh my dissertation on as well. So it's an area of specialty for me. So I I also live in Asheville, North Carolina, and uh this is where I I work from, and I'm the owner of the company Dr. Max Superfoods, uh, which I think is a uh a manifestation of my my years of experience and expertise uh and and a big part of uh my diet.

SPEAKER_02 1:47

Yeah, we were just kind of talking about that before we went on, and that's something I'm really excited to dive into, not just with your professional and academic and like vast experience in the public health space, but in the like health policy space and a variety of kind of experiences there, but also how it led you to the overnight oats and the actual like literally just busyness of life, bandwidth as you're going through things. A lot of honestly the audience watching, and even the people I get to support and our team gets to support can relate to not having a lot of bandwidth or time, or again, as you were mentioning, like you are getting your uh finishing up your PhD while also physically preparing from a marathon to even the training side of it, all of that. So, yeah, I working yeah, working, yeah, like all of those pieces. So um, I'd love to maybe curious if it feels good to start there because then there's a lot of interesting, I think, dynamics to like what you mentioned with whether it's obesity and the public health policies and what came up in your dissertation, to also what lends to what you're doing with superfoods and overnight oats.

SPEAKER_00 2:48

Sure. My my brand story about how I I turned overnight oats into uh a product to sell mainly comes from uh building systems in my life for convenience. I was again working on my dissertation, I was working full-time, and I was training for a marathon. I was running a lot, hitting a lot of miles, right? And a lot of miles every week. Uh and um so I just needed to hit the ground running literally every day. And I didn't have time for a bunch of meal prep and cleanup and really thinking. Uh, I wanted on my weekdays, I wanted to be on autopilot uh from the moment my eyes opened with like stable, healthy energy. Uh and so I would make big batches of overnight oats every Sunday, and then every morning I got up, I'd put different fruit or nuts on it and just kind of switch it up a little bit, but I had a base to work off of. So that that pretty much solved four breakfasts out of my week. Um, then just from my public health background, I knew all the good stuff that was coming with uh whole rolled oats. They're recommended by the American um uh heart association as um uh uh uh a way to manage cholesterol and and have good good heart health. They're recommended for good heart health, not quick oats, but the whole rolled oats, um, because of all that fiber and and other um other minerals and such in them.

SPEAKER_02 4:13

So yeah, so and that's I think a really interesting piece is the combination of like nutrition value combined with the accessibility and ease of I'll say integration into life. So that's where I kind of want to maybe take a step back and tag in also another one of your like kind of pieces of insight. I think it's really valuable. Whether it comes to like obesity or chronic disease or just public health in general, I think there's some core themes that at least jump out to me. And I'm curious your thoughts on your own, not only academic but professional experience on some of the commonalities that come around what we're facing as a society with our health and whether again, how that ties into overnight alts or just kind of what you're seeing and the value you'd say for the audience watching.

SPEAKER_00 4:56

Yeah, I think I'd like to start on that with just generally what is public health. I think it's something that uh that that everybody really that that most of us don't notice because when it's working, uh because it starts in the morning uh with our water, uh, because it's not um making us sick with bacteria uh or other um other contaminants, hopefully. Um and you're brushing your teeth, and like there's all these things that we do that are are actually products of public health to add to maybe even our workplace and and and work safety standards, environmental health, to to then your trip to the doctor's office or your decision to maybe try to get 10,000 steps in and stuff like that. So in public health, uh we look at populations. Uh we don't look uh so much at the individual level. Uh so we look at entire populations and and uh we look at population health, but we also look at how uh disease is prevented, uh managed, and and it's really public health is the art and the science of population health and disease, uh disability, disease, and and death uh prevention and management. Um a little bit of a word soup there, but um I think it conveys the idea. Uh and my degree is what's uh called a DRPH, uh, which is called a practical degree. And so we have all this knowledge, new knowledge all the time that our PhDs are getting, uh, which is really important new knowledge, whether it's a new cancer treatment or um, I would say the GLP1 um phenomena that's happening right now. Like this is all that's all really solid PhD research typically. Uh and but the practical degree is how we take this knowledge about the health of populations and translate it often through institutions um like the CDC, but also nonprofits, uh local health departments and uh foundations. And I argue that even my company, uh the Dr. Max Superfoods is an example of how translating what we know about what I know and what I've learned. And even more important, as I start working with other experts and pulling them in, I'm starting to work with a certified nutritionist, um, you know, leaning on their expertise uh on population health and nutrition to inform um things like my products. Uh, and and so that's that translation from knowledge to um from what we know to what we're doing, where the DRPH of the doctorate in public health is really critical uh because um we all know uh that we should exercise uh a certain amount every week or that we should stay away from those suites, and um, you know, that so but but we might not necessarily do it. Uh one of the examples is uh that I see living here in Asheville is so much that we have um we're supposed to get a lot of exercise every day, and when I go outside, there are no sidewalks. So a public health practitioner might say, well, maybe we should look at the relationship between the accessibility of being able to exercise conveniently uh versus um just saying you're sick because you don't exercise enough.

SPEAKER_02 8:10

So that's yeah, I think that's a helpful distinction. I take that for and I don't think it's something we've talked about. And to give some context, that's one of the ways that we've been able to connect is through actual with business and being able to actually offer me coaching and support and consulting, which has already been massively helpful. And like ironically, when I first went to um my where I got my bachelor's degree, SUNY Stony Brook, a state university in New York, uh, I was pursuing honestly public health at one point. And like, so I take for granted that that's actually like something people have like a broader understanding of. But to your point, there's a lot of overlap and aspects. And one of the things I'm curious if this feels true, where like I think of like BMI, for example, as a potential measurable objective data point that is reflective of a mass scale versus like, okay, on the individual level, there could be a like high adaptability. Maybe it doesn't accurately represent in some way body composition, but and the mass population, it's a really valuable tool. So that's a long-winded range of saying that's like one example of things that we can use in tools that have come from potential public health, and then applying it not only on the large scale, but like on the individual or smaller scale as well.

SPEAKER_00 9:17

Yeah, BMI is a complicated one. Um and it can be like I would I would take what they say about models, um, health models and stuff is like they they might not be always they might not always be right, but they should at least be useful. I think there are times where BMI can be useful. Uh in my personal case, I am I have a BMI over 30. Uh uh so and I um don't have I I haven't done my body fat percent count recently, but I'm certain at this moment I'm probably under 20% at least. So um so yeah, it needs sometimes it's useful, but um it's it's not a universal measure. But um, yeah, so we have all these measures out there, right? And that's again what us public health practitioners do is is is look at that, look at measures like that and critique them sometimes, but also time at other times apply them. Again, and I think that's a good example is maybe on the population level, uh the BMI could be um could be indicative of some important things, but in my personal case, it's an example where it does not um it's not very um it's not a very valid measure of what it's trying to measure.

SPEAKER_02 10:32

Um that's honestly why I use that one specifically because I think it's an interesting one on a case-by-case basis, right? Like if you look at you, you're not an overweight or obese or at risk for a lot of the things that, from my understanding of what BMI might potentially be utilized in a medical setting, we're like, okay, if you have an obesity-oriented BMI, that the risk factor for a variety of chronic conditions and even comorbidities with that go up. But like I this is an extreme example I I've worked with, like football players, for example, that could on paper they have less than a 15% body fat, but their BMI might put them as an obese person. So, and again, maybe just purely the strain on their heart still has certain risk factors and things like that. But I'm willing to bet the uh body composition factor accounts and adjusts for that too.

SPEAKER_00 11:17

Yeah, and that's and that's all very that's all nuanced, right? I think on the whole, we need to be always going back to the big the big picture stuff. Are you getting enough exercise in? How much are you are you eating enough fresh fruits and vegetables every day? Are you are you getting to your five? Um, there there's you get enough sleep. I call it the fundamentals, you know. Are you are you are you are you sleeping enough? Are you drinking enough water? And are you eating? And and then with what you're eating, what it what do you make sure you're eating healthy?

SPEAKER_02 11:45

But yeah, that's I'll even segue this like tagging a little bit back and forth to even when I think about systems, right? Whether it's summertime systems or things in general, in even how I approach and our team approaches coaching, is looking at what are replicable sustainable systems. For example, like hey, having your produce, having your protein, and ideally having some like movement in, being able to get a certain amount of sleep. Again, we can get into the nuances of like what the exact numbers are, and like that's again, can get into it, but it's like having some of these baseline sustainable variables becomes massively impactful. Like, even for me personally, I I'd focused on for a while over like six to nine months a lot of resistance training and ignoring my cardiovascular health. And now I've been able to like complement and balance that with resistance training two to three times a week, complemented with like three times of more like cardiovascular training as a measurable example. Um but yeah, I'd say all that to kind of like pair that to the systems and like to your point, like, hey, we're doing these baseline things, but I'm curious to circle that all the way back, and that's like how you kind of even bring it back to not only overnight oats, but specifically with I'm always fascinated with obesity, especially with like our society and the country in the last like 30 years. I'm using that as an maybe arbitrary, but I don't have that the exact off the top of my head. But there's an interesting trend there, and I'm curious from your thoughts, both academically and professionally. Um, again, I'm putting it on the spot here a little bit, of what has been some key factors aligned because I like there's all these interesting topics on like, oh, well, it's like big pharma, or it's like, oh, well, like these food industries and all these other aspects. But I think you brought up an interesting point, which is like, what about our accessibility to movement? And what about our actual like accessibility to healthy food? And how does that compare to like price points around that and also our actual information around those things? So this is just me like going off to my app, but I'm curious, obviously, from your experience and your thoughts are this is like literally what you got to study, I would I would imagine.

SPEAKER_00 13:35

Yeah, I spent a lot of time on on this and and did a lot of work um again on on the practical side, more so on the research side, on and just looking at those massive trends. And unfortunately, uh what's even more sad is is um and is are the childhood and early early childhood obesity trends where um you look at the the you can look at the growth charts and and um while there are exceptions where children will escape obesity um who are on that trend um as a population, so many will not. And uh it's that that's that's just really sad. Um so many, so much of obesity I I think is coming. There's there's a lot of terms about um uh see if I can think of it. I'll just think out loud right now. But it's like so so what happens when you're when you're eating when you're eating sugar that has no nutrients. So you're you're like you're you're you're feeding yourself, so you're getting calories, but you're not getting healthy calories, uh, you're not getting nutrient-dense food. So you're kind of starving in a way, right? Um, and our body's evolutionary and instinctual uh urge is is just to look at high calorie sugar, is to um keep going for that. And I'll I want to give an example right now. I have a um I love sweets. Um and I have I have a problem with sweets. Uh so um, and I'm glad you know some people have this problem with alcohol or um opioids or other things, right? Mine is like cookies. Um, I have cookie and uh cookie monster and I are uh friends on Instagram as well. But um and uh uh but I don't keep any of that stuff in my house. Uh going back to the systems over willpower, I I don't need to expend my willpower on you know that ice cream in the freezer or those cookies in the pantry. Uh I just don't bring it into the house in the first place. Um and then and that's that's my system. Um but yeah, so it's one, I I think again, just just sticking to the basics of getting those five, the getting those fruits and vegetables in every day and getting your exercise. And I think it's just really challenging a lot for for children, for example, who might be growing up in neighborhoods without sidewalks and going to schools where they're not where there's not as much PE or recess or athletics available, uh, where our where our school lunch system, I was, I I um in in my elementary school and stuff, I was I ate school lunches and they were canned canned green beans and um fruits, and it was fairly, it was this was in the 80s, so yeah, it was it was a fairly balanced meal. Um I have spent time as a teacher. Uh taught um my first jobs in the in my career were as a teacher, and the things that I saw coming through were largely fried and um not balanced and not fresh. And there are some great initiatives locally uh around the country that connect fresh foods and community gardens to schools. Um but um you know I it's it's um packaged, frozen, fried, processed um foods, I think are just all great examples of the things that are are um filling us with uh with nutrient empty calories and and causing obesity. Um I mean it's it's there's volumes about this as well. I mean there's flavor engineering going on about how you know, even just like the way they engineer natural flavors is to um, you know, you take a bite and then you want another bite. Whereas if you eat um something that's more more wholesome, like an orange, it really takes a while for all the flavors to come out in your mouth of the orange and it's really delicious and rich. Um you're not trying to like shove it in. So I I the obesity is is very very multifactorial from the gen from the genetic to some point, but to the family level, to the community level, uh to the to the um to the state level. Um so it's it's a it's a very complex problem that um you know didn't exist to the extent that it did uh when I was growing up in the 80s.

unknown 18:03

And yeah.

SPEAKER_02 18:05

Yeah, I appreciate that point. Like, again, there's many variables, but I think you kind of touched on something I think is interesting to like explore, which is the not just that it's a 1v1, but willpower versus other things. Like a lot of times I hear the story or the idea or the narrative, or even the like when I'm talking to someone, like how they feel wrong or bad or guilty, that's like, why can't I just do this? Or why can't I just not have sugar or have soda or something like that? I must be weak or lack discipline, which maybe there's some aspects of like there's instant gratification that we're attracted to, but also looking at some of the systemic variables around it, whether it's our environment, whether it's education, whether it's access to resources or information or of a multitude to your point of things that I think is the reason I kind of focus on this is to recognize like if someone's watching this and you resonate with I'm I might feel unhealthy, but I feel wrong or bad about that, recognizing a, you're not alone, and B, it's not just you being weak by itself. There's a multitude of things contributing to this. And I would even, if I'm curious, your thoughts, I'm I'm biased to this. The idea of our relationship to technology and digital devices. Again, I ironically, I'm literally doing this on digital devices. It's not saying they're vilified altogether, but I also will give presentations specifically on that and recognize the interesting overlap, not only between obesity but chronic kind of health conditions as well as ADHD-oriented symptoms. That I'm not saying that ADHD isn't also a component by itself. There's a lot of interesting overlap there that I'm curious if that even comes up in all these things that you explore as well. Yours just thoughts on that, on the technology and the digital side to all of it.

SPEAKER_00 19:46

Yeah, I mean, even for many years, there's um I can't remember the the exact um sequence now, but one of the obesity prevention uh interventions really, I think it was called five to one. And it was like um five fresh fruits and vegetables, limit yourself to two hours of screen time a day, or maybe it was one hour of screen time a day. It was a really it was a really well thought out um thing about like how much to eat, how much to exercise, and how much to limit your screen time, because there are studies that do link the amount of screen time uh we get to um to obesity. And and then there's a lot more studies about like sitting being the new smoking, right? Um which is really um been one of the things I've really enjoyed because I spent so many years writing and reading and and working um behind a desk and now um selling uh uh my product and making my product and uh being on my feet all the time, I mean not all the time, but a lot of the time, is so rewarding. It feels so good, and I feel so so lucky that I'm able to um to be on my feet as much as I am. But I also know that this decision is good for my health because um I'm I'm moving more, I'm not sitting as much and stuff like that. So um, yeah, being sedentary is not uh not good unless unless you're resting. Resting is part of recovery. Uh and and and resting is part of um part of training, no matter how you're doing. If you're not getting your rest right, you know, then that can also feed into obesity, right? Because your your your uh cortisol levels are are out and and stuff like that. So um so rest is important, but um and the yeah, there's a lot of information about there about screen time and and health, and it's it's good to limit it, but um, you know, I I I would say it's similar to like cars, right? You can get into a car accident. We try to use our cars responsibly though. Um you can being on a motorcycle is very dangerous, but if you wear your helmet and don't go really fast, uh you're less likely to um suffer um consequences.

SPEAKER_02 21:56

So yeah, that that may I appreciate that point. I think that's That's an interesting example, too, to your point of like having our relationship and just being awareness. That's like one of the big things when I think about like just a framework when I talk to people in all capacities is like having a level of awareness, regardless of what it is, and then being able to go to like what's our intention? If our intention is like, hey, I want to have not only a long life, but I want to have a high quality of life while also having a lot of length to it. And then what actions are going to be related to that framework? Again, like being able to have fiber, being able to have good quality, nutrient-dense food options, being able to also have like movement in my life, and also having some sense of fun too. That's like one of the things I appreciate about some of the principles I've learned from other nutrition education is yes, we have protein, we have produce, but also having pleasure in these three P's that we'll kind of incorporate is like it's great if you have all of that. And that's what actually bringing it all the way back to even your food and the overnight oats is like I've so just to be full of like Dr. Mac's not paying me. This is not like a sponsored thing. I just genuinely like was able to try it and and bought it myself, and it's something I'm gonna continue to use. My fiance loves it. She actually really liked the um, she tried the the matcha and the cacao as well. Like, so unfortunately, she got to it before I did. Um regular and my even like my one-year-old had it. She got the like taste of it, our four-year-old, and then our five and seven-year-old as well. So, like all of our girls are into it, it's a great way to incorporate, I think, again, options that give you good quality nutrients, being able to have your different vitamins and minerals. But the point of saying all that was actually kind of circling it all the way back to not only how you arrived at overnight oats, but if there was other things you were looking at. Because you kind of mentioned, like, hey, it's helpful, it's convenient, but I wonder if you experimented with other things, because I think that's an interesting piece too to this journey for all of us, whether from obesity to like professional athletes, is like experimenting with different options. And I wonder what of any other pieces did you experiment with for that breakfast time before you arrived at overnight oats? If anything, that's making an assumption that that was like not the first and it just worked for you.

SPEAKER_00 24:04

Um, I would have to think maybe maybe my brain will think about that while I'm talking. Um that's a good question, actually, because these ideas don't really just like come out of nowhere, right? Um, everything everything builds on something else. There's there's nothing original. Um but um I I think what's critical for I want to go back to kind of what you were saying about systems and your exercising. Um and and and in your career, I I imagine you didn't just be like, oh, I'm gonna go run today, and I'm gonna go do this today and do that today, right? You had a system in place, right? That that held you that that that that you were able to work within that was set up that you that you either set up or was set up for you or in some collaboration and you work that system. And that's what I do with my whole, I try to do that in every angle of my life, uh, because um to to the extent possible, because those systems are what make my life more efficient and allow me to do the like 90 million hobbies I have. Um is that I I don't I don't have to think about breakfast today. I've got it covered. I don't have to on Sunday, every Sunday I go to um I go to the big box retailer in the farmer's market and I buy big amounts of vegetables. And on Saturday, on Sundays or Mondays, I roast them in the oven and I've got containers full of vegetables. And when I have when I when I'm taking a break and I need lunch or it's post-workout, I'm not thinking about it during my work week. I've prepared, I've prepared, I have an existing system, I've prepared that system, I implement that system, and then I do it again. And and and if you're and I've I've I really find that if when I miss my meal prep Sunday on my healthy food and I have to use mental energy to figure out what I'm gonna eat, um, it either one massively reduces my productivity or two massively reduces the balance of my bank account. Um so um so those are those are two big motivators, but I can't always work the system, but but that's what um that's what I try to do. And I think um I'd been eating this meal for a long time. I think my biggest challenge was turning it into a shelf stable product that you could have in the pantry for like a year. Um I didn't like all of my ingredients are real foods, all of my ingredients are um whole foods. There's no protein powder in it, there's no um um you know sugar, sugar substitutes. Um uh so vanilla, for example, was my my hardest ingredient to find. And uh because like I I didn't know anything about vanilla, to be honest, other than that it's a great ingredient in cookies. Um and um but uh yeah, so I found powdered or ground vanilla beans. Uh, you know, it was is is is the vanilla flavoring. It's just real vanilla, authentic, real organic vanilla. Um uh so I've been I've had to learn a lot about how food manufacturing works and how ingredients work and work together. Um I I was making it like the cinnamon flavor, I really like to take. I still do this. I'll take half a cup of Greek yogurt, half a cup of water, shake it up, and um it turn just turns into water, and then I soak the cinnamon flavor in it with it's really heavy in chia, and the yogurt and the chia seeds just create like a pudding. And uh then you're getting additional protein from the Greek yogurt, and you're getting great probiotics. Um, so you know, it's just like a win-win. Um, so I that's the way I ate it for years. Um and then each ingredient has so much, it has so many, every ingredient I've thought about um at length. For example, the um chia seeds and uh the chia seeds and um I think the flax seeds um have omega-3 and omega-6 fatty acids in them. That's good for heart health, right? Uh the chia seeds um and all that fiber make you poop. It's really good for colon health. And as a runner, and and I also sell it like I've been selling and going to running expos when you're doing long runs in the morning and having like a reliable cleansing of your system at like a set time every day. Uh, whether you're on a bike or out running, it allows you to just kind of literally lighten your load and be out there for a long time. Uh, and again, it's like it's great for colon health, and you just feel better. Um, and then um the pumpkin seeds, um, there's ingredients in the pumpkin seeds that are uh that have shown to help manage uh prostate health and a lot of other things too. And so every ingredient in there I've I've intentionally chosen uh for a purpose, especially the seeds. Um and the um which one am I missing? Again, oats are great for cholesterol management, they're also a good um great source of fiber, and they're recommended by the American Diabetes Association for as a healthy source of carbohydrates. Um, although everybody reacts to oats a little bit differently. So if you are diabetic or prediabetic, you obviously need to be monitoring that at the individual level. Going back to public health, we look at populations, not uh not how things affect every individual. That's that's the role of a different part of the system, the clinical part of the system. Um so yeah.

SPEAKER_02 29:32

Yeah, but I and that's something I haven't had a chance to talk to in quite a while, honestly, when it comes to a guestness, even like glycemic index and glycemic load. And again, even with those things, they're going to vary person to person, right? Like if you had a continuous like uh glucose monitor, for example, for me versus my fiance, they might we could eat the same thing, we might get different readings on it. But I think that's one thing I appreciate about oats for a very long period of time, and also the interesting combination to your point of ingredients, not only just oats by themselves, but as you add nuts and seeds and add different layers of fiber and protein, how that impacts the glycemic loader index. And for those like watching, maybe you're not from, I'm not saying you need to watch your glycemic loader index, but it can be an insightful piece on how your body responds to carbohydrates and how it turns it into sugar and how you might want to time those things accordingly.

SPEAKER_00 30:19

And there are there are clinical studies that actually show for um high intensity train uh HIIT training, especially. I've read some studies where um because the what's happening with oats in the fiber is as they go into your digestive tract, um, they're not dropping the the glycogen into your bloodstream all at once, like you would get from um the soda. Um yeah, what's that?

SPEAKER_02 30:44

Like gummy bears. I think of like around the like bodybuilders would be cliche like eating gummy bears pre-workout to get that like sugar spike, but again, it's shotgun into your system within maybe what 20 to 60 minutes or some frame, and like if that, and then you're not necessarily being able to utilize it in a sustained fashion throughout your workout.

SPEAKER_00 31:02

And the oats release the glycogen through your intestines at a much slower rate, and then depending, as you said, uh the interactions with with protein and fiber uh affects that as well as the individual's um metabolism. Uh started communicating and working with a nutritionist locally who's an expert in those things, which is great because I am not, um, I don't have that expertise. I I can I can read about it and think about it, but it's not my expertise. Um, and I think that's where as public health professionals we say, you know, I know what I know, and I'm I I'm this is what I'm trying to do. And these are the experts I need to lean on to make sure that I'm you know a responsible practitioner and um ensuring you know the best the best knowledge and best outcomes for for in in my case customers.

SPEAKER_02 31:51

Yeah, that's something I appreciate as when I as I was younger, when I was younger in my personal training career, even before I got into other different aspects of like health coaching and different types of specialties, was I used to think that I had to know everything and like, oh, I had to answer the questions. I realized actually ironically, as I've gotten more experience or different knowledge bases, I'm like, oh, I don't need to know everything. And that's the point of having professionals to reference and like refer out to, or to be able to say, hey, let me actually go ask someone, and being able to just be aware of that. And that's something I always really appreciate, especially as I've noticed there's a common theme is like the academic and professional experience tends to go up. The willingness to be wrong and challenge ourselves or oneself, or especially for you, that's my experience of you too, is like the willingness to be wrong and not be attached to like, oh, well, then I'm right, as it were. And then being able to like be transparent about that too. There's been times actually on content I've misspoken, even let's say about amino acids. I was talking about essential versus non-essential amino acids, and I misrepresented the tune. I'm like, I'll come back and say, hey, I was actually wrong. I misspoke or some version of that. But I wonder there's a long run away of actually asking. Have you noticed that's always been a natural attribute for yourself, or has that come on as you've gone down this pursuit and you've been kind of curating your ability and willingness to be wrong? Because I think that's a really obviously impactful attribute in this world.

SPEAKER_00 33:13

Oh, I would say a couple things. Um, I think the the phenomena you're talking about goes back. Uh, the first quote is probably by Socrates, and I can't quote it off the top of my head, but I'm sure if you Google Socrates and um uh the older I get, the less I know, or something like that. Um so um the the the more you realize how much there is to know as well. Uh so um and then I think from as an entrepreneur and a founder, um, which I think you can definitely identify with, is um is learning and failing is integral to the process. If you're not failing sometimes, and if you're not wrong sometimes, you're probably wrong. Um and and but it's our ability to learn from learn and learn quickly um from those moments that that I think uh determines uh our own success. Um and for me, I I definitely the the process of going through uh going through the the the doctoral um the hoops to get a doctorate uh and my various committee members from from various disciplines, um, not just public health. And public health is an interdiscipline anyway. It has uh influence from everything from the biological sciences to like I was saying, environmental science to medical science I mean it's a very um there's there's a lot of variability within the field, but um that was that's a very common thing in the in the preparation and defense of dissertation is to say, um I don't know the answer to your question and I will be happy to get back to you. Or we'll be happy to identify somebody who can answer your question. So yeah.

SPEAKER_02 34:54

So yeah, yeah, go back to and find and be able to just own that and being able to also I think the interesting thing about being able to receive feedback as well for mine to say not that I've had to go through dissertation, but of working with clients and professionals and colleagues that have and almost seeking that out and being, I'm not saying everyone's this way, because that's obviously not a fair statement, but being somewhat even graceful with that and actually seeking it out and saying, hey, like I actually want to see and test this out and whether it's like the scientific method, as it were, not only to see where there may not be truth to this, but can I replicate it and where we can see that? Um, and this is the reason I'm going down the ramble is I even tied that back into with your overnight oats of saying, okay, like to your point, in this process of like justifying every ingredient, having value, nutrient dense value to the ingredients you're selecting. And that's something I really appreciate. And I honestly, like from a taste perspective is great. Like my kids pass it on that perspective, but even being able to look at it from like an objective, measurable, like value add orient to it. If I'm being mindful of like, I don't nowadays I don't honestly focus on counting calories as much. I'm not saying we don't because calories in, calories out is like a thermodynamic aspect where you do want to be mindful of, but being aware of like, hey, how do I feel? Satiety. And that's where I think even that as a fuel source is massive because the satiety level with it is really impactful. Like, I usually don't even finish the whole, I'll make the whole bag and then I prep it, but usually it's gonna last me two meals. I'll break it up into two pieces. Um, and then that's also I'll add in like after you mentioned me like adding in some berries, walnuts has been a great one.

SPEAKER_00 36:32

Um I just want to consider another powerhouse for heart health on the walnuts, but yeah, yeah, and acknowledge just that that uh ability to do that.

SPEAKER_02 36:40

And this is where I kind of want to, because you mentioned too, also being in Astral, right? And and we're in like the local area together. And I think it's an amazing community of like endurance athletes in a variety of capacities, like climbers and and in different people and individuals. But for those that either are watching this in the astral area and or even someone that's not in the Astral area, but they're interested in trying out the oats, like I I can have the answer of like going to the website and those things. But where would you prefer people to like try this, reach out and communicate, and connect with you?

SPEAKER_00 37:07

Yeah, so I'm on uh Instagram at uh Dr. Max Superfoods. Uh my website is drmacks superfoods.com and uh Facebook the same, and it's drmak superfoods.com. Maybe I should um put that in the chat.

SPEAKER_02 37:22

Um I have that in the description as well, but I'm also gonna put it up. I'll actually put the link. Hold on, I have it pulled up right here. I'll put it in the comment, we'll highlight it really quick. So if in the reason I'm asking, if someone does want to order something, then go on the website right here and have it.

SPEAKER_00 37:38

Yes, and that the link you just posted gives a 20% discount uh for your first order. And if you just want to try it, and um you can select any of the products and uh at that discount price. Locally, I think the most reliable place to get my products has been the uh French Broad Food Co-op. Nice. And I've been I'm in I'm in a number of other places in the region, um, but I don't have that list off the top of my head. My real focus that's talk about learning. Um, my goal this winter when I wasn't working at farmers markets. Um you can also find me at farmers markets. I love farmers markets. I'm gonna be working at four farmers markets in the next four days. Uh Weaverville, um Biltmore Square, East Asheville, and Asheville City Market, albeit each one of those. You can come by, say hi. And uh also I've I have tastings out at those markets as well, so you can try the products. Um yeah, uh, but so I made a decision kind of I was starting to get into distribution, and I that was my goal was to get a high number of stores. And through coaching and feedback I got, um, I I this month I just repositioned my whole strategy around that, where I really want to focus on three to four major retailers, and uh the biggest and most recent one, I'm not in there yet, but we're um we're doing the paperwork, and they've said they won't take my products, is Earthfare. Uh so Earthfair will be you'll be able to get them there. And um, I'm at I'm at Food Matters in Brevard and um Organton. So I'm focusing on larger distribution uh and less overall stores. And um also in the coming months, I'll be releasing two new flavors. One is gonna be uh Mocha. Uh each these are a little more fun. Um I just the first year I just wanted to start out with like cinnamon is kind of the classic, right? So the mocha has the equivalent of half a cup of coffee in it uh per serving. I found a delicious coffee and it pairs great with the chocolate, and it's just really well balanced. It's my favorite, and um it it it does combine that get up and go from your cup of coffee with your food. Um, it is I can't drink my full cup of morning coffee when I eat when I eat the when I eat the mocha too, because I'm just like too much. And I'm collaborating with Full Moon Tea Company, which is a local tea company, and uh to do what's called a London fog, which is like an Earl Grey tea with lavender. And it's also really delicious. Um and yeah, and so there's the next two that are coming out, and then um later in the summer, I've been I'm under development right now is an athletic blend or like an athlete's blend, and it's really um it's gonna be delicious because delicious is a really big part of my my brand is because I eat this every day uh and I love it. And if I don't love it, I'm not gonna be able to sell it or I'm not gonna feel good about frankly selling it. Um uh so with my athletic blend, um upping the sugar a little bit um because most people say that the the product is actually a uh pretty much a low sugar. Um there what they love about it is it's it's not too sweet. So, but for the athletes, I'm gonna I'm gonna up the sugar for them and add collagen and add uh I found a pure evaporated coconut water. Uh so you can you're mixing then that extra protein from the collagen with the electrolytes and potassium stuff that you're actually getting from just evaporated coconut water to hopefully help you have, well, in my case, have um a better run, uh better recovery, uh, with because you're not getting as dehydrated and and stuff like that. So that's what's on the horizon.

SPEAKER_02 41:31

Yeah, that's really exciting. And I I think of it not only from I appreciate your like the athletic component, because I think of specifically a lot of obviously my backgrounds in the martial arts world, the combat space, and an interesting side that I saw from the UFC PI put out, the U UFC's Performance Institute. They have a lot of amazing research, and I have a lot of amazing, like just colleagues and people in that space complimenting with their research. It's about almost 80% of combat athletes show signs of disordered eating. And the reason I bring that up is because their lack of either awareness or access to resource because they have to quote unquote make weight, but something like this that's easy, that's simple, and that also can taste great and then give them the energy they need, being able to give them the nutrients they need, the electrolyte balancing, especially when they have massive amounts of sweat and fluid loss and all those pieces. That gets me really excited. Makes it, I go back to the accessibility that you mentioned before, that I think is really impactful. But again, it's not just for like the combat sport athletes out there, for all athletes. And even those are just like, again, consistently training. I that's one of the things I see with a lot of our not only clients, but the people I try and talk to and explore is like at some point we stop playing games. And I think being able to play sports and have fun and have joyful movement, whether if it's running or run, that's what's cool about our area, right? Like, think of how many cool outdoor activities when the seasons afford kayaking and canoeing and being able to hike and being able to bike and being able to run to your point and like doing all these fun things. So um, I really appreciate that part of it too, for the movement side.

SPEAKER_00 43:00

So I've just signed up for the where a couple of weeks ago, I signed up for the River Arts District, half uh 10K and half marathon. I'm I'm running the 10K. I this is the first race I've run since um I moved to Asheville uh a couple of years ago. Uh just for a number of reasons. I just haven't been running as much. And um, but I I've I've continued my lifting while I'm running and training. And um I'm like back to your point of like when you get when you're going from like recommended levels of physical activity to starting to add like um I'll probably I mean I'm I'm probably gonna be at like a 20 mile week this week, maybe a little bit more. But um, you know, like I'm just I'm hungry, I'm hungry. Like I will eat what I'll I'll eat that too, right? And so I was like taking my systems thinking today when I was coming home and I was like, huh, my last system is not working for this level of physical activity. I need I need something else. So that's yeah.

SPEAKER_02 44:02

So it's it's um the the yeah, so but uh the cool thing I think, and this is where my mind goes, is even with like the overnight oats things, like being able to add it to smoothie variation to being able to add even to like honestly, I want to call it dessert options. Like I've seen interesting like brownie variations where you can use oat-oriented things and being able to do that, like again, I'm going into maybe uh a separate counterware, but I think there's a lot of really cool possibilities and integrations for what you already have.

SPEAKER_00 44:30

I love hearing what people do. I I add it to smoothie what I don't eat at breakfast when it gets a little bit hotter since I moved here from Louisiana. Uh this is still cold for me. Um so um uh talk about electrolyte balancing extra running in that summer heat is something, but um yeah, I so when I start my fruit smoothies, I'll I'll I always take and add what I don't eat for breakfast into that. And my friends who have kids, they'll they're they'll they take the chocolate flavor and they're like, Oh, you want your smoothie this morning? It's chocolate. And then they like, oh sure, I'll take it now. Um but yeah, there's there's lots of great stuff. You can versatility. I I love hearing what people are doing with with the product and um and and send me ideas. Like I I that's like I was saying earlier, like um there's no original ideas. I'm just building off things other people are doing.

SPEAKER_02 45:21

So well, yeah, and I'm excited. The thing we're gonna experiment with over the summer is not only like the smoothies, but also making some dessert options, like I'm gonna call them brownie slash muffy muffin-oriented types of options that being able to integrate these, because then the other cool thing that I think about for desserts, because we're uh actively working on our dessert cookbook, is the again blood sugar regulation side of things. So for integrating these things that are gonna actually have a contributing factor, along with is gonna taste good and just fill it out. It's I think it's such a massive win-win. Um, combined with also like the simple act of just like I learned to slow down and enjoy my food. But like you mentioned this all the way in the beginning, too, right? Like with our food and flavorings, like, hey, enjoy each bite. Take those bites, slow down and chew them. And I like I eat very fast. So, and I think that also ties into like environmental things and feeling like we're in a rush, and even on devices, like maybe I'm like on my phone while I'm eating, trying to put out a post or whatever the thing is. I've learned to like put the phone down, put the laptop down, sit with our food. Um, that's one of the things I actually appreciate about the oats, is like I use both my hands because I hold the bowl, I use the spoon, and like not having all the devices, as it were.

SPEAKER_00 46:31

I I've taken uh I'll I'll give you uh uh one more um I'll give you a counterproductive to a mindful eating piece of advice that I use. Um I take I I add a full cup of milk, or sometimes I'll add like half water, half milk to the oats so they're a full liquid, and I just put them in a jar and drink them, and I don't have to deal with the spoon and the bowl. I just drink them right out of the container I make them in. And they go in the car with me. I I'll a lot of times I'll do half pre-workout, half post-workout. And um but I I think you know, I I'm speaking, I've I've been in conversation with a nutritionist who I'm hoping to work more with, and and we should we should uh talk again about that, um, about what you were just talking about related to um fiber and and um like that protein balance and desserts, and because I I as I understand it, the fiber does hold back or inhibit uh that rapid release of glycogen when you do have sugary stuff. One of my new products coming out also is actually a chia pudding. I didn't mention that. That's uh two I'm doing two flavors of chia pudding. Um and so that is a dessert product and it does have sugar. And I was asking the nutritionist, I was like, you know, how what should I target? What level of sugar should I target on this ingredients label? So I still feel that it's healthy, but without like and all my sugars are like maple sugar or coconut sugar anyway, but and so we had like a discussion about that. So I I think I'm gonna get a lot more into the weeds about that specific um phenomena of uh of dessert, right? And and what what can we be having with desserts to um to make them healthier for us?

SPEAKER_02 48:12

Um so yeah, that's definitely something I'll I'll continue to explore is again how we mix and match different things to impact the again glycemic load, glycemic index, the release of it, the absorption of it. Again, as it varies person to person, there are some obvious commonalities and things that you know from the dietitians I've talked to in our team, and like I'd love to talk to your nutritionists as well and just share ideas and pick different things because then we can also add it to our cookbook and add it to the dessert book and be like, hey, really cool things to add because that's what we're like. I have a great I love peanut butter cups. That's like my personal favorite. Like almond butter. I've I've switched to mostly almond butter. I'll still use peanut butter sometimes, but mostly it's like an almond butter or some kind of different variation of a nut butter with almond butter with that chocolate cacao flavor oats are are really good. Yeah, that's what I love. So with the overnight oats, what I've done is I'll take that and I haven't tried it with the cacao yet because Carrie actually completely housed it, but even with digging the almond butter, mixing it and let it melt. Oh, yeah, so good. And then even drizzling a little bit of like some melted chocolate, like 70% cacao or more, and like melt a little bit of it, because then I'll dip like berries or fruit, and that'll be sometimes a dessert or like a blueberry bark kind of a thing. Um and then just just having that is really nice. So being able to explore different my point of saying all this is the different desserts, that's the next thing we're gonna be rolling out. I think that'll be a really fun thing to integrate. And um, yeah, I'm just I'm just excited. So, one of the things though, this is what I'm I'm working working on is um to your point, like having feedback and giving what we want, but not overly complicating things. So that's like a really cool piece to just intuitively add uh with it.

SPEAKER_00 49:50

Um, but yeah, it's an art to make things just simple enough.

SPEAKER_02 49:55

It's yeah, it takes a while, but it takes a lot of intention from my side, at least, especially I've noticed with my own brain chemistry and predispositions of things, um, which is also why I appreciate you and then bring it full circle. So I'm gonna start to wrap things up. I'd love to have you come back on, Dr. Mac, with definitely lots of questions and different things. We had some comments come out. I just want to like shout out to everyone. Just really they're just saying hey and like hello from Turkey, and then we had some questions, um just being able to come in and seeing more, and just honestly a couple people are just saying hey. So hello everyone. Thank you for the follows I saw come in while we were doing this. And the one thing I always like to ask when I have a guest come on is if we're gonna leave the viewer watching with some actionable takeaway. The goal I try and take away from every piece of content or podcast or thing that we do is like we we talk about a variety of things, but like one action-oriented item, and I'm putting you on the spot here a little bit. So the the goal of the question is like, what's one action-oriented item someone can take away? And I'm gonna just try and see. I'm also gonna use this as a moment to pause to A, give you a little bit of time to think about it, and B, see if we have additional questions because I saw something, yeah, someone's just saying hey. Um, but I'm curious your thoughts on what you would invite from one thing someone can take action on today that can be impactful for their health.

SPEAKER_00 51:09

And that's broad in um say two things that are fairly congruent because they're kind of the same thing. Um well, I guess one is like this I got from meditation. Um you don't have to stop something to start something. If you you can like make excuses to do something uh not while you're not. And so uh it takes a lot of effort to stop doing something. But if there's a healthy habit you're trying to implement, you might and you don't have to stop doing something to do that healthy habit, uh, eventually by introducing more healthy habits, uh the unhealthy ones won't have a place at the table anymore. Um so so take action. Uh make an excuse to take action and to do what you've been wanting to do. And that unhealthy thing uh or that thing that you've been wanting to stop or quit, uh, you might just find that you're doing so many healthy things that it just doesn't have a space in your life anymore.

SPEAKER_02 52:20

Oh, that's just true. I really appreciate it so I'm gonna I'm gonna do you mind if I offer what I'm hearing you say is like a different principle we'll actually like utilize in coaching is from what I've seen in behavior change and and in different ways, uh even related to like cognitive behavioral therapy and like how we view our quote unquote negative experiences, is like instead of focusing on removing things from our life, which can have a lot of resistance and weight, add something to your life. So, okay, adding that healthy focus, adding that healthy habit, adding that action, that joyful thing. And guess what? By the time you continuously stack it, the table, I've really appreciated how you word that. Like the seats of the table will be full that the other things may not have room anymore and they'll start to fall off naturally. Not that you're forcing them out. And that's something we I've offered. People like, hey, let's say you want to have dessert. Cool, let's offer, let's just add a little bit of protein and fiber. Add something with protein and fiber. Maybe it's your overnight oats, or maybe adding in something like that. And then guess what? If you still want to have something, you're still hungry, have it. But more than likely, I'm willing to bet given enough time as you add these things, it will start to dissipate off.

SPEAKER_00 53:23

But fill your house with uh fruits and carrots and celery sticks. And when you've got a sweet tooth, um you can eat as much fresh fruits, and that's my rule. I I can eat as much, as many apples and bananas and oranges and celery sticks as I can fit in me. You know, I just I can eat as much of that as I want, but um and I just don't have any junk food in the house.

SPEAKER_02 53:47

So yeah, that's a great call. And to your point, like can really fill, and then that doesn't feel as restrictive either. So thank you for the awesome insight, Dr. Mac. I appreciate you also thank you for taking the time again. Just to recap for everyone, we have everything in the description below. But for the website, if you want to try the overnight notes, it's Dr. Mac. So that's spelled N-A-K, ends with an S, and then superfoods.com. In the description, we also have a code so you'll get a discount. And then for those watching the replay, feel free to come back, comment, ask questions. Make sure you're following Dr. Mac as well across all the platforms, and we'll have more follow-up. Um, when you're watching the replay, you're watching up whatever chopped up versions. Let us know that you're watching it. It's always great to hear from you guys. And uh yeah, it's gonna do it for today. And it's actually perfect timing because ironically, my fiance just got home with the kids from food shopping, so that's also my cue. I can see them out the window. They got in the house, it was perfect timing to just now I'll get out of uh yeah, get in and get my exercise and my movement in for the day.

SPEAKER_00 54:44

Thanks so much, Michael. It was great, uh, great, great being here.

SPEAKER_02 54:48

Yeah, thank you, thank you so much. Thank you, everybody, and uh we'll see you soon. Take care, y'all.

SPEAKER_00 54:53

Bye bye.