The Art of Longevity
Uniquely honest conversations with famous and renowned musicians. We talk about how these artists have navigated the mangle of the music industry to keep on making great music and winning new fans after decades of highs and lows. We dive into past, present and future and discuss business, fandom, creation and collaboration. What defines success in today's music business? From the artist's point of view.
The Guardian: “Making a hit record is tough, but maintaining success is another skill entirely. Music industry executive Keith Jopling explores how bands have kept the creative flame alive in this incisive series”.
The Art of Longevity
The Art of Longevity Season 12, Episode 4: Amy Macdonald
Singer-songwriter Amy MacDonald has never been one to chase trends - an impressive show of resistance for an artist whose music journey began with teenage stardom (the streaming monster hit “This Is The Life” was all over the radio when she was just 19). Macdonald could be forgiven for trying to stay in the spotlight, but she was never that bothered about industry fuss in the first place, protected as she is by a finely tuned bullshit detector, a birthright for anyone born in the vicinity of Glasgow.
That said, as her career has developed (she is now on her sixth album), MacDonald admits to worrying more…about mostly everything. New album Is This What You’ve Been Waiting For? is a cheeky dig at years of being asked when new music was coming, yet it comes with a certain anxiety about how it will go down, about how the world sees her now. “I keep myself up at night just thinking about shite basically, it's ingrained in me - I just want it to be good for everybody involved”. Staying grounded matters to Macdonald. When asked what she’s most proud of, her answer is modest but telling: “That I’m still doing this. There were so many times I thought I was going to sack it all in. But here I am, album six, and people still seem to be interested.”
It's easy to forget how much responsibility falls on the shoulders of solo musicians. It’s as if the strength of her songwriting might not be enough. But it is.
Season 12 of The Art of Longevity is Powered by Bang & Olufsen. Long copy can be found on www.songsommelier.com.
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Welcome to Season 12 of The Art of Longevity. I'm your host, Keith Jopling. Each episode features an in-depth conversation with an accomplished, famous or cult musician or band. And over the course of 11 seasons so far, we've established many themes and secrets to a long, thriving career in music. Each and every guest has shared the most incredible, honest insights about their successes and failures. It's a really great way for fans and creators to discover more about these amazing artists. We make each episode a tribute to the artist, and so you'll find on my website the full write-up and a unique artist portrait by the wonderful Mick Clark. The Art of Longevity is brought to you with Bang& Olufsen, celebrating 100 years of crafting products with beautiful sound and stunning design. Amy MacDonald, welcome to The Art of Longevity.
SPEAKER_01:Thank you for having me.
SPEAKER_02:And how are you? What's going on in your world at the moment?
SPEAKER_01:I'm good. Things are Pretty crazy busy right now, but it's all been good so far. It's exciting waiting for an album to come out. It's also nerve wracking. So I'm kind of in the weird middle place where I'm excited and also terrified.
SPEAKER_02:Right. Is it different to previous times when you released an album? This is number six.
SPEAKER_01:Yes. I think with the first album, I was just so young and naive and it was just all a laugh. So I was like, what can happen? But after that, you tend to think about things way more. And I have found that as I've got older, I think about everything way more than I used to. So there's that side of it. And it's just the, it's just, hoping that people like it that you've spent so long writing all these songs and then in a studio and everything that goes into the planning so it's just the hoping that you've done it all right and people appreciate that
SPEAKER_02:and it's difficult these days to know what to look at right so you can the industry's as numbers obsessed as ever but you know you don't always get the numbers you don't always get the reviews these days because there's so much music released how do you get your feedback and your affirmation once the record comes out I mean you released a single yesterday
SPEAKER_01:yes I did I think it's just listening to like fans and stuff like for all the pitfalls of social media that's the good side of it like that you can get that kind of instant feedback from people all over the world so it's been really good to see that there's been positive feedback so far and I think that's the metric I use the most just what are the people that support me on the day to day saying I think that's the most important one but there is there's so much data now like even all the streaming apps give you all these numbers and I am bad for looking at it, but I actually don't even know if it means anything anymore. It's like, what is that? What does it even mean? Like, you just don't know. So you can get a little bit consumed by it, which I probably tend to do when something's just been released. It's like it takes over my life. But then like three days later, it doesn't even exist anymore. And it's like we've moved on to the next thing.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, I was at a gig. I was going to say recently, but I think it was a couple of years ago. It was Aqualung. Remember? Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. And he was saying, you know, whenever I look at Spotify, it just reminds me I had a big hit once. And I'm always compared to whatever sits at the top.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, I get that. It's like a
SPEAKER_02:competition with yourself.
SPEAKER_01:It is. And the problem with streaming is that it has kind of turned us all into people that just pick and choose songs here and there. And I moan about it and I do it myself. So I can't really complain, but... The whole, oh, I'm just going to make a playlist. Nobody really goes on there to listen to an album from start to finish. They just pick and choose one song here and one song there. And that is a battle, getting people to listen to new songs. And they have the same at radio. They don't like playing new songs because they say that people lose their interest when they play new songs.
SPEAKER_02:It's just crazy,
SPEAKER_01:isn't it? It totally is. And I mean, I think because... Because of who I am and the way that I was, especially when I was growing up, I was so excited. if my favourite band or artist had a new record out I could not wait to learn every single word so that I could go to the gig and sing along to every single word but I think that side of it is unfortunately gone now and that's where like what he was saying that you're constantly just compared to that one song and people might go oh they've never had anything else but it's more so because they've not actually went and listened to anything else there's always plenty of other stuff they've just chosen to not listen to it
SPEAKER_02:How important is it for you still to get a body of work out there so we're going to get on to is this what you've been waiting for the album in a minute and we'll pick out some songs and stuff but you're an album artist aren't you?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah it's always been important to me I think I think because I came from a place of that's what I loved I loved getting an album and just flipping through been consumed by it for months on end and listening to nothing but that so it would feel strange to me to just put random singles out I mean it would probably be a lot easier for me but it just feels like there's been so much lost in music that I just wouldn't want the album to go as well so I'm always going to cling on to that's what we do we make the album and then we build everything around that
SPEAKER_02:you know I was looking into this because I'm a big album fan My thing is to try and bring that back around, you know, that experience, the listening from beginning to end, understanding the journey, all of that stuff, trying to bring it back around and just doing some research on it. It was only 2021 when Adele posted the message that, can you put my album in the right order? Do you remember that? That's like only four years ago. Can you believe that?
SPEAKER_01:I know. And that's one thing as well. Adele had probably spent months working out that track list and the songs were in that order for a reason. And then... like somebody just going, oh, well, it doesn't matter. It's something else that kind of takes away from it, unfortunately. But thankfully, they go in the right order now. Thank you, Adele.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, thank you, Adele. And I guess thank you, vinyl, a little bit. So are you excited about seeing this in the vinyl form? Because I think the cover design is quite striking. You want to tell me a little bit about the artwork and the design for the sleeve and everything?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. So actually, the artwork was inspired by a shelf in my bathroom that had Thank you so much. I just wanted it to be eye-catching and interesting. Because again, I think with the streaming, with everything, people don't pay attention to that as much anymore because it's just a little thumbnail. But I just thought, no, I want to get this right. It needs to look cool. It needs to be exciting, especially because people like buying vinyl right now. So you want it to look as interesting as possible, really.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah. I mean, I've had artists on this show tell me that the artwork and the concept behind it the record is as important as the music. It's all together as one, right?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, I mean, we spend, myself and everyone that I work with, we spend so much time discussing all of this stuff. I think sometimes it would probably be interesting if everybody could see how much work goes into choosing every single aspect because I think People would probably be quite taken aback by it. So it is nice when you put that out and people say, oh, that looks great. You're like, brilliant, that's what we want to hear. That's why we spent all this time trying to perfect everything.
SPEAKER_02:It's good to hear you say that. It's given me an idea
SPEAKER_01:there.
SPEAKER_02:So, is this what you've been waiting for? Who is that question to?
SPEAKER_01:Initially, it wasn't to anybody. That song... It needed a hook line and that's what came into my mind at that moment. I was sitting going, oh, it needs a... And that's the words that came to me and I thought, perfect. And then when it came to naming an album, just... I'm always taking everybody else's opinions like I have my own ideas but I do think that it's nice to have a team of people and different ideas as well so everybody that I asked basically said that's the album title that's the album title but going back to the pitfalls now of the social media like it makes you accessible 24 7 and I felt like for the past 5 years I've been batting off why are you not on Why is there no new music? So it was kind of a tongue in cheek. There you go. You've been moaning at me for all this time and here it is. And hopefully the answer is yes, this is what we've been waiting for. Yeah,
SPEAKER_02:it's a sort of version of FOMO, fear of being forgotten. I call it FOBOF.
SPEAKER_00:Oh, yeah.
SPEAKER_02:You know, you've got to... constantly create content which is besides the point of actually getting so you know your best songs out there that takes time
SPEAKER_01:yeah see I actually don't worry about that side of it like I actually go off I think that if I was constantly thinking I need to post I need to post you end up just like starting to miss your normal life like I've been at events before with loads of influencers and things and I couldn't believe like that they're just taking video I mean they have to that's their job but just of everything And I was like, well, how can you enjoy the event? Because you're just filming absolutely every single part of it. But I understand that side of it too. So I know that I do need to give that. And I genuinely don't mind doing that. It's just that sometimes people make you feel like you need to do it all the time. And I wouldn't want to do it all the time. Some things just need to be normal.
SPEAKER_02:And you see... when you're on stage your audiences are you know they're going to be it's going to be phones in the air how do you feel about that when did you kind of first notice that become ubiquitous?
SPEAKER_01:So when my first album came out it was 2007 and I think that's the same year that iPhone actually came out so it wasn't a major thing for those first few years but after that it's just the norm it doesn't actually bother me that much like because I get why people do it they want to have these memories but I mean I've probably done it myself and I probably never go back and look at these memories so it doesn't really bother me but I think that you notice it more when it doesn't happen and it makes it so it makes you realise how much nicer it was without it because I don't know I'm a show in Zermatt in Switzerland earlier this year and that was the first time we'd ever played any new songs and because we were still quite a way out from them being heard by people I didn't really want people's first experience of them to be on a grainy YouTube video so there was a compere that introduced us and he spoke to the audience in German and said If you don't mind, please don't record like the artist has asked that you don't record. And then I start panic and thinking, oh, I hope people don't think I'm being demanding. I hope they don't think that I'm saying, no, I don't want you to film. So before I played the new song, I actually explained the reason and why we had asked people not to film just because I've spent so much time trying to get these songs to sound good. perfect that I don't want people's first experience to be on a YouTube video that somebody in the audience has filmed and I got a massive round of applause and there was not a film a camera out or a phone out for the entire show and even though I had said it's only the new songs that you can film everything else there wasn't a phone out at all like not I didn't see one and afterwards I was getting messages from people that had been in the audience that that said it was so nice to go to a show without all the phones so it was quite refreshing that actually everybody enjoyed it and it was good to just have everybody's attention and there wasn't anybody like looking at you through a screen or looking down it was just all eyes on you and it ended up being a brilliant brilliant show like really one of the best that I've done in ages and one that I really really enjoyed
SPEAKER_02:Tempted to do that again?
SPEAKER_01:I don't know. I don't know. Most audiences might not be as understanding.
SPEAKER_02:Okay, before we get into some songs from the album, when you released your debut at 19, you know, you're sitting here now on album six. I mean, did you think you would get this far? What were your expectations in the early days?
SPEAKER_01:Do you know, I didn't really have any. And I'm there's part of me that thinks it probably was harder being so young and trying to navigate such a crazy ridiculous industry but there's also the other part of me that's actually really grateful that I was so young because I didn't take anything that seriously and it was just a laugh and I never worried about anything it was just oh to hell with it like what it'll either be good or oh well it won't be and I actually miss that side like as I've got older I'm way more anxious about everything and trying to make sure everything is perfect and keep myself awake at night with stuff like that so I do miss that kind of young carefree side of it so There's probably good sides and bad sides to being that young. I find now that I get all these comments from people saying, oh gosh, you don't age at all. And I'm like, no, I do. It's just that I was so young. I'm just probably not as old as you think I am.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, well, you can get to album number six and still be young.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, yeah. So I do look back and think it was absolutely nuts. But I think now probably in a good way.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, I mean, it sounds like you coped quite well with being thrust into the spotlight. And there's an element, you know, hearing you talk that sort of there's the Glaswegian kind of element coming out there to protect you.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:But at some point, and it doesn't usually take that long, the spotlight shifts away. Did that unnerve you? Did you find it disorientating or were you just relieved?
SPEAKER_01:Do you know, I'm probably lucky that I don't think I was ever really, massively in the spotlight I never had any desire to be famous or anything like that that's not something that has ever appealed to me in fact I'm the most awkward and weird person ever that I get embarrassed by that side of it so I was always just pretty normal and I never really thought I was any different from anyone else and I think that's probably been a good thing and that's probably coming from the Glaswegian thing like if I started acting like a diva there would be hundreds of people happy to bring me down a peg or two. So I don't ever really feel like I was massively in the spotlight. It was crazy because I had this album that was massive and the song This Is The Life was like a huge flipping hit all over Europe. You couldn't escape it. You still can't. But I think a lot of people didn't even know what I looked like. And I get that now, like... If somebody maybe stumbles upon my TikTok account, there's always comments saying, oh, this is a great version of this song. And I'm like, yeah, because it's my song. And people saying, oh, we didn't even realise what you looked like. And I think that's the good thing. I think I had the best of both worlds there. And obviously, as you go through your career, unless you're a fucking megastar, a Taylor Swift, Ed Sheeran, whatever, then it is kind of peaks and troughs and ups most of it's just coasting along and I actually don't mind that I think that it's quite nice like I'm not sure I could cope with the other side of it like I like being able to go to the supermarket myself and not have to be driven about everywhere like that that side of it I don't think it would be enjoyable at all.
SPEAKER_02:Was there a point where you questioned it a little bit?
SPEAKER_01:a lot of times I mean there's been times where it's been really stressful and I have thought why am I doing this to myself I've been very lucky that having that success like I don't need to do it I wouldn't need to do it but I think what I would miss is all the band and the hanging about on tour and that like the great camaraderie that we have and we do have a laugh like and it is like kind of being with your family so I think I always kind of long for that side of it more like I don't need adulation or anything like that like I've seen interviews with I think it was Bruce Springsteen that said he really struggled after a tour because he got so used to like the applause and the crowds and all of that whereas like I go home and I'm happy as Larry, just sitting on my couch watching TV. I don't need that side of it.
SPEAKER_02:The art of longevity is powered by Bang& Olufsen, the luxury audio brand founded in 1925. For 100 years, Bang& Olufsen has been pushing the boundaries of audio technology and acoustic innovation. Bang& Olufsen's products combine beautiful sound, timeless design, and unrivaled craftsmanship. All right, let's stop off at a few tracks. So when I played back the album a few times, these are the ones that stood out. But we can talk about some others if you want to talk about some others as well. But Can You Hear Me, which I think ended up being your single that you released yesterday.
SPEAKER_03:Yes.
SPEAKER_02:So this has got a bit of a theme tune quality to it. You can kind of carry this song around in your head a lot, I think. And it's got a disco beat and a disco guitar. So just tell me about... How that song came to you and how it came together?
SPEAKER_01:So basically I had got wind that Blondie were looking for a new album and they wanted some songs for it. Did I want to try and maybe write something and we could see if they would like it. And I work with my friend Matt sometimes when I write. so he had been told this as well so i think he was like oh let's get this vibe like he'll do all the music i'll do the lyrics and the melody and then he played me this idea like the start of it and i was instantly like nope this is my song nobody's having this we're writing a song for me and he just nobody's getting it like this is going to be great like we just we're going with this so i think that's where it's got the disco vibes from But it was actually when I started thinking about what I was going to say and all of that, it was actually just thinking about a gig that I'd done. So it was the Transmit Festival in Glasgow. And I peeked out beforehand, seeing how young the audience were, like it's very, very young, and started to panic a little bit, thinking most of these kids won't even have been born when I release this first album, like this is going to be hard. And it was the complete opposite. It was actually one of the most enjoyable performances I've ever had. They were just so full of life, so full of energy, so happy to be there, so happy to see me. And it just felt like one of those real special moments, like I felt like I had a real connection. And it just made me think about the younger generations and how everything that they'd been through with the pandemic, all of that, the constant bad news, the will they ever be able to afford a house and I just thought how incredible that they're just so full of life and having the time of their life and acting like they've not a care in the world when they're just bombarded with all of this crap 24-7 and it just made me feel really inspired basically and it just made me want to write like a kind of anthem for the young people today and that's where that song came from so when it's Can You Hear Me I'm kind of thinking of all the younger generations marching down the road with their placard and it just actually made me think that I wasn't really that stressed about the future because I just thought They don't get a lot of credit, but I like this generation and I'm not worried about what's going to happen.
SPEAKER_02:Okay, so that was quite a big... impact on you
SPEAKER_01:oh yeah totally like there are a few shows that do stick with you forever and that'll definitely be one of them I think also when it's your home city like there's always that emotional connection as well and there was another gig I done in Bonn in Germany a few years ago which is another one that's just stuck with me forever and it was because It was biblical rain. It had not stopped raining. I felt like I was in Scotland. It was terrible. And it was an outdoor show in the summer. And I thought, oh my gosh, these people, they'll just not be there because it's just miserable. I wouldn't want to stand in this all day. It did not let up once. And when I went out, it was just absolutely filled with people just in their ponchos. and they were just such an amazing audience and I just thought oh my gosh you're giving me so much here and it's been the most miserable evenings for you and they just didn't care and I told the audience how much it had moved me and it just felt like a really really special thing and that's that's another one that's just stuck with me forever and there are a few that will just never really leave you.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah they're the best shows aren't they where there's a There's always a connection, usually between the artist and the audience, but sometimes it just is so strong. It's just spiritual sometimes. It just keeps coming back and forth. Well, it's a great sentiment for a song. Yeah, I think the young people of today need a bit of moral support.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, exactly. I just thought, perfect song for them.
SPEAKER_02:Okay, so next one's I'm Done, which I picked up lyrically, really, because, well, of this podcast. So really the theme of this podcast is, you know, how you survive. This business, which is known for being quite fickle and sometimes ruthless. And, you know, you mentioned the ups and downs. It's a bit of a roller coaster ride and you go around it a few times. And during that process, there's a lot of people you meet who want to be your friend and want to be, you know, claim to have a part of your success when everything's going well. And then suddenly they're not there anymore. It feels like this was almost like you've sussed this.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, I think what this industry does is it makes it very easy to spot bullshitters and that's the best part of it for me. Like, I know that it's not right to judge people in first impressions, but I've actually always found that my first impression is right and you can spot these people a mile off. I think it's also down to the Glaswegian in me as well. I'm a little bit standoffish sometimes with new people. Not that I'm not polite, but... I can just be a bit awkward and it takes a lot for me to trust people and get to know them and things like that. But you do kind of find that you just know if you're going to click with somebody or not. And I think that having been exposed to so many bullshitters from a very early age, I'm very good at kind of sorting through them now.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, yeah. I mean, from... You were still a teenager, so I reckon your antenna is finely tuned
SPEAKER_01:at this point. Yeah, it's very,
SPEAKER_02:very good. There's a theme as well that's come out of these conversations about sometimes it's earning the right to say no, or sometimes it's just knowing that you have to.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:And that's part of the song as well. Was there a moment where you thought, right, I need to learn how to do this?
SPEAKER_01:I think I've always been somebody that's not shied away for... from expressing my thoughts and feelings obviously that was a bit harder at the start when this whole industry was completely unknown to me I was so young I didn't know what I was doing but I have learned to kind of trust myself and it's alright to just say no I'm not comfortable with that also just the importance of surrounding yourself with good people that you trust that you know genuinely have your back because that can be hard in this industry as well and I'm very lucky that I do work with some great people that are genuine friends now that you know that they're always going to look out for you and they've got your best interests at heart and I am lucky because you hear some horror stories I mean I've got some horror stories myself but I've come out the other side and I think just trusting your own intuition is pretty important a lot of the time
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, who had you back in the early days?
SPEAKER_01:Well, I think probably looking back, like the managers I had initially, they did support me. I think you then go on a strange journey and things happen or whatnot. But like my manager now, Chris, he actually started out as my guitar tech right at the beginning. and he worked as my guitar tech for a few years and I needed we were going on a support tour and we had no money at this point and I needed we needed somebody to basically do two jobs so Chris can you do tour managing driving oh it was three jobs tour managing driving and do the guitar tech and he said yep no problem and he done such a great job at the tour manager side of it that I was like, do you want this job? And he said, yes. And then he was tour manager for a while. And then I needed a new manager. And that side of it is really scary for me because these are the people you talk to every single day and your life is basically in their hands. And I actually thought, I don't really want to do this with anybody else. I just want Chris to do it. And I said to him, I was like, do you want to be manager? And he laughed and he thought I was joking and I was like, I'm being serious. And he was like, right, okay, but we need to get a mentor. He's like, I don't know what I'm doing with management. So we went round, met loads of people, met Alec and Marcus at Ignition and liked them better than anybody else and got on really well with them. And Chris then slotted in there and that's what we've been doing now for like the last 10 years. And he jokes that like he's had two promotions now. So he said the only other job that he can take is mine, of which I said you can do my job at any time you like. But yes, it's just good having somebody like that, that I've known now for nearly 20 years, that is one of my best friends, but is so good at what he does and just a real asset to me. I'm very thankful for that.
SPEAKER_02:Okay, next song, We Survive. I love this because... I'm married to a Glaswegian, actually, and when she first took me to Scotland, it was, I think it was for her, like a brother's 40th party
SPEAKER_01:or something like that. Oh gosh, right in the
SPEAKER_02:deep end for you. Yeah, and I've never been in a situation where I saw so many people so drunk that they were falling over. I remember saying, is it a national sport in Scotland? you know falling over they were just going up down like you know one over there then one over there and it's in the song so tell me about that
SPEAKER_01:yeah I mean it's probably not a good thing I think that Scotland does have a terrible relationship with alcohol party culture I think the entirety of the UK does but I think we kind of take the crown off of everybody and sometimes I feel like a bit of a hypocrite because I talk about it as if it's like the worst thing ever and then I go and do it as well like me and my friends are partial to flipping crazy night out and there's constant governments talking about oh we really need to do something about this but I don't think they ever try and make people's lives any better and they don't ever address why people need that escape and why they love that escape And it just feels like we're going round in circles with the same conversations without anybody actually trying to make people's lives better. So that's the side of it that's probably a little dark. But I do still love going out with my mates and having a great time. And we've had so many fun memories from doing that. So it's a bit of a strange song because it's saying one thing, but I'm also being a massive hypocrite with it
SPEAKER_02:at the same time. And musically, what were the references?
SPEAKER_01:So that was a song that I wrote just on my own. So when I'm writing with some of my bandmates, the demos are a bit more produced. Whereas when it's just me, I literally just record it on my phone. And that's what we start with. That's what the producer had was just this little phone demo of me sitting in my living room. And he kind of saw it as a slower song. song like kind of introspective and straight away I was like no no no no no it needs to be a bit skiffly it needs to be a bit more kind of rushed together not too polished but kind of in the spirit of Crazy Night Out so that's where we got to with that and it's one that actually I've played it live before just me and my acoustic and I got an amazing response to it so I think that just on its own works really well as well but I do like the kind of raucousness of the recorded version
SPEAKER_02:With this album I mean musically what's come in there as an influence that's new to you like what were you listening to at the time or what were you getting into that's different from before? Do
SPEAKER_01:you know I absolutely love Future Islands I love all their records and for the title track Is This What You've Been Waiting For the producer Nico he's actually based in Berlin so he he works pretty much on his own he's multi-instrumentalist he doesn't really need anybody else and he had said right I'm going to start on these and then yous can come over just once I've got this this is how I like to work once I've got a kind of starting position and then yous come over so that's kind of what happened and he'd sent back like his starting position and I was like yeah it's good but it needs to be more exciting it needs to be more going on and he asked for an example and I actually sent him a song called Ghost from Future Islands and I went this is my example and straight away he went I get it I get it and then when we got over there and heard what he'd done I was like perfect so so good and he just kind of captured that so I love that a lot of the stuff that I like to listen to sounds nothing like what I do but I think that's what's great about music you can be inspired by something but then still do your own thing but still feel like that was your main inspiration so I know I sound nothing like Future Islands but there's elements of stuff that they use in their music that I was like right we need to pinch this and pinch
SPEAKER_02:that but they're on a hot streak as well they've been getting better I think
SPEAKER_01:yeah oh totally
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, didn't I see Rammstein in your influences somewhere? I thought, well, where does that come from?
SPEAKER_01:No, they're not my influence. Rammstein are one of my sister's favourite bands, so it's just kind of been around me as I've been growing up.
SPEAKER_02:And the other producer was Jim Abyss.
SPEAKER_01:Yes.
SPEAKER_02:Who's, you know, kind of in that league now. So how do you work with two producers to make a record? Do
SPEAKER_01:you know, it was actually really easy. So we had... the song I'm Done I actually wrote that with Nico so he produced that one and that's where we made that connection and I had asked if he could do a few more just because I really liked what he'd done with that demo and he was really up for that so we'd done that but then with the last album I had worked with Jim and really loved it and it was one of my most enjoyable experiences making a record so I did want Jim to be involved again because the last time it was so disrupted by the pandemic that it felt like we didn't get the full experience so that's why we kind of split it in two and it's actually really really really easy it just it wasn't a difficult thing it's quite nice to have different minds on different things and just kind of cast the net a little bit further
SPEAKER_02:The Art of Longevity is brought to you with Bang& Olufsen. Since 1925, Bang& Olufsen has created iconic audio and home entertainment products to the highest standards of sound, craft and design. You can find more about the partnership on our web pages and by signing up to the mailing list where you can then get episodes first plus invitations to events and offers. Finally, we want to get to 100 shows and beyond with The Art of Longevity and the only way can do that is with your help and advocacy so please rate review and share the podcast wherever you can back to the conversation to wrap up this episode and we'll be back with another great guest very soon let's talk about your voice always kind of like to go back and read what others have written about you and i think this is quite recent is fiona shepherd in the scotsman which i think was around the release of the last album So Amy MacDonald has always come across as an old head on young shoulders. She's truly come of age as a songwriter using that unmistakable voice. So you do have what we would sometimes refer to as a signature voice. What's your relationship with your voice now versus when you started? How has it changed? I
SPEAKER_01:probably... I should do way more. I should be doing vocal warm-ups and all that stuff, but I don't. I'm very, very lazy. But I am more mindful of it. I think what helped me the most with my voice is actually exercise. I remember doing... concerts before when I was a lazy so and so and feeling out of breath every time I'm singing and then when I started actually properly exercising and getting into doing that regularly that's the thing that I feel had the biggest impact on my voice and I feel like it's way more powerful now than it was then I feel like it's clearer it sounds a bit better and I think that's down to just being fit and healthy now whereas I was not when I started out but I am very I'm really grateful for my voice like because like you say it is distinctive but I think sometimes it can hinder you because people will say oh well that song sounds like that one and it's like they're completely different styles there's no similarity but I think because people just hear the voice it then makes them think that it sounds the same and it doesn't um So yeah, it's a strange one, but I'd never change it. I quite like having a distinctive voice. I know it's not for everyone. You're always going to have people that don't like distinctive, interesting sounding voices, but a lot of people do, thankfully.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, I mean, once your fans are brought in, though, they're brought into your voice, right? So that's a good thing.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, totally. And I've been very lucky. I do have fans that have been there from the start and continue to support me to now. So I'm very grateful for that.
SPEAKER_02:All right. So let's just talk about the industry a little bit because, you know, you've been around since 2007. It was pre-streaming. So it's changed. It's probably changed more in the period that you've been, you know, a commercial director music artist than it ever has in its history. So with streaming, what surprised you? Has there been a particular song that has kind of sprung up on streaming that you didn't expect or just generally what's been good about streaming and what's been different?
SPEAKER_01:What's interesting is that you can see that what are my favourites might not necessarily be what the people that are listening prefer and that's always really interesting to me and it's just it comes to when I'm thinking about set lists and I tend to think about it quite a lot because I want people to hear the songs that they like so I spent a bit of time going through all of the streaming stats and doing like a top 20 for each one and then kind of cross referencing it and working out right what songs definitely need to be included and what songs don't and it is surprising to me some of the ones that do well are songs that I would just have no real interest in performing but people seem to absolutely love them and you go right well we better do that and that's a benefit because otherwise I would have just never played some of these songs ever again probably but then the streaming numbers you can see that people are actually relating to that song and they clearly want to hear it.
SPEAKER_02:So give me an example.
SPEAKER_01:A song called Pride actually that is just to me it's just fine it's just a fine song it's fine but people just seem to love it and it was like in the top 10 on every single platform and then I was getting messages from people who were angry when I wasn't playing it I don't know I think it's probably because it's particularly Scottish and we are quite patriotic and and we yeah I know we cling on to those kind of things that make us feel proud to be Scottish so I think that's maybe where it's coming from although I've had people from Germany, Switzerland tell me how much they love it as well so who knows.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah I think it's one of the genuinely great things about streaming is is that you are surprised by people's reactions to things and you could it's so transparent yeah and like you mentioned before with transmit it brings in youth
SPEAKER_01:right yeah it totally does and that's the whole like TikTok side of it as well like that's actually been great for me bringing in a whole new younger audience like since I started and up until now it was always people my age or older that were my main fan base and now it's completely flipped on its head I think my biggest group of listeners now is females under the age of 30 and that was never the case before so it's actually really nice that it's opened up my music to younger generations and it's given them the chance to hear it and it's quite good because you're not as reliant on external sources anymore it kind of gives you more control yourself whereas before if you didn't get the radio if you didn't get the tv support then you're kind of you've got no options really you just need to flip and hope that word of mouth helps you whereas with all the the social media and the streaming platforms and all that it does make it easier to get out there yourself
SPEAKER_02:how did this is the life come up on tiktok like what when did it first
SPEAKER_01:it's weird I don't know if it ever kind of blew up rather than it's just always there it's just one of these strange things and even like now I constantly get messages from people saying I'm in flipping holiday in Spain somewhere and I've heard this is live like five times today and I was like yeah I know I can see it on my PRS tape but it just seems to be one of those songs that just connected with people and it just seems to have never really gone away and I think there was a guy I don't know if he was Italian or not that done a slow cover you know how we all love a slow cover so it was a slow version cover of it and I think that just introduced loads of people to it and then there was a band in Ireland who'd done the best cover I've ever heard like a band called The High Stool Prophets and they basically turned This Is The Life into like a real Irish kind of jig song and it worked really well and I was like oh that sounds great and it's now turned that song into like a bit of a flipping Irish cultural song like we were over doing a gig a few years ago and my band went to a pub And there was like live music on and the guy started playing This Is Life. And a girl turned to one of my bandmates and said to him, are you even Irish if you don't know this song? And he was like, all right. It's so strange, but I don't mind it. I love it.
SPEAKER_02:I mean, I went back and looked at, because it's a streaming monster, right? I think you're going to get that Billions Club plaque afterwards. at some point I think you actually do get a plaque
SPEAKER_01:oh do you? I
SPEAKER_02:think it's a physical thing that you get so that's going to happen at some point yeah well I went back to look at like I would have expected it to be I don't know number two in the charts or number one in the charts but it was never a chart hit it was what just barely scraped the top 30 right?
SPEAKER_01:yeah in the UK but that was a time when songs doing well on the radio pushed your album so my album was number one but the single wasn't but It was number one in loads of European countries. And I think that was because there was a mistake in the UK. We went with a different second single. And I actually had, that was my first experience of going, maybe you should just go with your gut here. And I didn't. And I was told that it wasn't a single. But in Europe, they actually just went, that was their number two single and it just caught on and it went really, really well there.
SPEAKER_02:We don't have too long left, but I'm testing some themes of longevity that have kind of come up in the conversations. I think this is number 80. And one of them is to have a manifesto or kind of to work to a code, your own internal mantra that gets you through. Do you have one of those? I
SPEAKER_01:don't know. You know, I think that a quote that Chris my manager always says is everything's either fun or funny I think that sometimes when shit is starting to hit the fan that it's important to just laugh I think probably don't take yourself too seriously yeah but I just I think more and more just go with your gut and try and surround yourself with decent people that you know have got your best interests at heart but it could probably change from day to day with me
SPEAKER_02:And your first, I think your first four albums were on, were with the label you originally signed to. Now you're an independent artist. What does it mean to be an independent artist in 2025? For
SPEAKER_01:me, it doesn't really feel any different. Not much has changed. I think that's probably because I'm lucky because I already had that career there and it doesn't really feel like you're kind of doing everything right. yourself basically but I think I've just got such a great group of people like everybody that I work with at Ignition are just brilliant that it doesn't feel like it feels like they're a label as well and that the BMG are great as well and it just feels like a good team of people all kind of pulling in the right direction so it doesn't feel much different I was very lucky that at the start when I was on with Universal I did work with some really good people and I think what helped me is because I came to them with a full album already written
SPEAKER_02:I remember that because you made an album and then you pitched it didn't you and I think you were one of the people say you were one of the last artists to kind of be discovered that way but I think it's a great way to do it make the record first
SPEAKER_01:No the record wasn't made basically I sent away a demo CD of just a few demos to an advert and then ME and from that I met my first managers and then straight away I was signing with Universal but I'd already written the songs and I was able to I would just go in places and take my guitar and just play for them and I think that was really strange I remember going up to Lucy and Grangey's office because he was the boss in London at that point just with my guitar and being like I'll sing you some songs and he said that was the first time that had ever happened that nobody had ever done that before and it was pretty cool and yeah so I think just because I came with all the songs and I wasn't somebody that was needing songwriters and all of that it was always just alright well Amy knows what she's doing like and I was always able to just be who I wanted to be basically I mean that was
SPEAKER_02:incredibly brave to just pop up to the you know biggest label in the UK
SPEAKER_01:yeah but like that was the benefits of being young like if that happened now I'd be absolutely shitting myself but back then I didn't give a toss
SPEAKER_02:how would you feel about breaking into the business today would you break through do you think
SPEAKER_01:I don't know if you can these days I mean obviously you can because there are still artists that do it but a lot of them are American now it feels like everybody that become successful now and break through properly as American and that's a bit sad like I just feel like we need to kind of support UK acts a bit better it's always good seeing like there's loads of female artists doing really really well now but again loads of them are American obviously there's some great UK female artists as well but I think that it will be harder to get people to kind of buy into the whole thing because we are very much we pick and choose one song here and one song there and then on the other side it's never been as easy as it is to get your music out there so it feels like there's way more competition as well so I think it would probably be difficult like trying to break through I don't know but then I see a song like This Is The Life that still connects to people constantly so maybe maybe I don't know
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, I guess at the end of the day, it's about songs. But there's a lot of discussion about that going on in the UK business right now. It's like, where exactly are we? Because all of the big global acts, as you say, are American, or they could be Latin acts that have blown up in America, because America is all one in that sense. And then you've got K-pop, J-pop, you've got South Asia and artists coming from all over the world that are blowing up on streaming but they're not British
SPEAKER_01:yeah I think that we probably shoot ourselves in the foot a little bit like especially if you've got like I don't know like something like the BBC which is uniquely British But sometimes it's still all American artists that are getting kind of pushed on all the stations. And you kind of think there's a chance there to make sure you've got, it doesn't need to be all the stations, but you could have some specialist shows maybe that are about helping support new British music. And I don't know, I think that would be a good thing. I don't think anybody would disagree with that.
SPEAKER_02:I think that's what they do in France and
SPEAKER_01:Italy. As in France, they've got the 40% rule, which I don't think there's anything wrong with that either. I think they do the same thing in Austria as well. I think it's good to support your own industries.
SPEAKER_02:All right. I was going to reference the song It's All So Long Ago and just come back around to that discussion, but I think we've just had it. You mentioned earlier you worry a bit more and you keep yourself up at night. What's keeping you up at night?
SPEAKER_01:just panicking about shite basically what
SPEAKER_02:details or big things like AI coming over or just
SPEAKER_01:like getting your shows right not so much the AI or anything just just hoping that things are going to go well and that people are going to enjoy the songs and things like that and that I'll sell enough gig tickets that I won't be playing to empty bands. It's kind of
SPEAKER_02:strange because you've been on that journey. You've got the team around you. You've got your fan base.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:You're writing and making really great music and you're on form creatively. So why is it that you've started to worry about all that?
SPEAKER_01:It's just ingrained in me. I just always worry. And I don't really know why sometimes because I just... I don't know, it's been great. I've been so lucky. The career that I've had, if it was all to end tomorrow, I think I would be like, well, that was a good ride. So it's not even the fear of not having that. I don't know. I think in the moment, I just want everything to be as good as it possibly can be. I like to think that no stone has been left unturned. And sometimes that's probably where the worry comes from.
SPEAKER_02:Responsibility, essentially.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, I think so. I think just feeling that you've got that responsibility I definitely feel that with
SPEAKER_02:solo artists I know you've got your band behind you and everything else but you know the buck stops with you and that is a lot of pressure
SPEAKER_01:yeah it can be I think sometimes people don't realise that but yeah I'm used to it so I'm happy for that to be my role like it is funny because like with Chris like I mean we always joke about musicians and everybody are the most unorganised people you would ever meet And the only person he'd probably trust to be organized is me. So anytime anything goes wrong, it's kind of if I'm the one that's there, I'm the one that will sort them all out.
SPEAKER_02:That's what happens when you make your guitar tech a manager.
SPEAKER_01:Exactly.
SPEAKER_02:All right. I've got room for one more question, which is what are you most proud of?
SPEAKER_01:What am I most proud of? Probably that I'm still just doing this because... There were times at the beginning where I was like, wow, this is intense. I'm not sure this is the life for me. And there were many times that I thought I'm going to sack this all in. And the fact that I'm now here on album six and people still... seem to be interested is a real positive so I'm proud just of I think just of all the songs that I've written sometimes you can become a little bit disillusioned and it gets a bit annoying because you just want people to hear them and you want to say just listen to these songs but the fact that putting an album out selling gig tickets what more can I ask for really just proud of it all
SPEAKER_02:What's next?
SPEAKER_01:So, crazy summer of festivals. You've
SPEAKER_02:got Isle of Wight
SPEAKER_01:tomorrow? I'm doing Isle of Wight on Friday.
SPEAKER_02:Friday.
SPEAKER_01:And then I've got a load of German. A load of German. Oh, is this Thursday? Yeah, it is tomorrow. I've got a load of German in my head. I've got a load of German summer shows coming up and loads of promo. And then I've got my own tour, which starts later in the year. And that'll see me right through till... March next year as well so busy busy
SPEAKER_02:yeah yeah and good luck with all of it and good luck with the new record and when you play those songs live I know you're going to get an amazing response and I think that's also one of the differences these days You still see artists apologising for playing new stuff. I'm like, no, you don't have to do that anymore. Yeah. You should be confident.
SPEAKER_01:Well, we'll see tomorrow how that goes. With a
SPEAKER_02:festival crowd. All right, good luck with the phones.
SPEAKER_01:Thank you very much.
SPEAKER_02:Thanks for coming on.
SPEAKER_01:Thank you for having me.
SPEAKER_02:Thanks, Amy. Bye.
