The Art of Longevity Season 13, Episode 6: Kurt Vile

I caught up with Kurt for the Art of Longevity at his home in the leafy, trail-threaded neighbourhood of Mount Airy ("there's like one coffee shop, one grocery store kind of thing"), where, if you're a local dad with a creative streak and a guilty conscience, you too might one day hand him something strange and wonderful. 

Philadelphia's Been Good To Me is Kurt’s tenth album, and it arrives draped in the city's 250th anniversary of independence, although Kurt would like you to know that the Philly references preceded any civic occasion. "I've really been calling out Philly the whole time," he says, without particular urgency. "I called myself Philly's constant hitmaker, you know, early on, so all signs were pointing to this for natural reasons."

The phrase natural reasons crops up around Kurt Vile the way it tends to around artists who have figured something out that they couldn't quite explain if you put them on the spot. His producer Rob Schnaff asked him early in the sessions: is this your Philly record? Kurt had already sung Philadelphia into three different songs by that point. 

Sometimes an album tells you what it is before you know it. 

The record was made in part, as increasingly his records are, at home. His home studio has become the full circle he didn't quite plan to draw but which now makes complete sense: back in his twenties he was recording DIY bedroom tapes; now he's in his forties doing essentially the same thing, except for a major label (Verve) and in high fidelity. The method hasn't changed but the context has - the proverbial “slacker” has become an all out star of considerable standing in the global indie rock scene. 

The Art of Longevity Season 13 is powered by Bang & Olufsen. 

The book of the podcast, Riding the Rollercoaster, is now available. 

Transcript

Keith Jopling 0:00

Hello and welcome to the continuing season 13 of The Art of Longevity. A special welcome for first-time listeners. Where have you been? Check out the back catalogue of some 90 plus episodes. Just start with your favourite artist and go from there. Also, you can now read the book, of course, Riding the Roller Coaster, How Artists Survive the Music Business to Become the Legends We Love. That is out now. We also have some live episodes coming up later in 2026. Stand by for announcements soon. And stick with us as we slowly work our way towards 100 episodes. It's only taking us five years. Tell your friends about us, but mostly have a listen and then check out the back catalogues of the artists and bands who make up our amazing guests. And if you play the albums, no skipping. Okay, here we go. Kurt Vile, welcome to The Art of Longevity. Kurt, how are you and whereabouts are you?

Kurt Vile 1:08

Uh, thanks a lot. Yeah, it's good to be here. I I'm just in Philadelphia, you know. I'm at home in Philly.

Keith Jopling 1:15

This is your place in Mount Airy. Is that how I pronounce it?

Kurt Vile 1:19

I guess that, yeah, technically that's the neighborhood, yeah.

Keith Jopling 1:21

How do you describe the neighborhood for people who've never been there?

Kurt Vile 1:26

Well, I guess definitely the coolest part is that there's just lots of trees and forest, and I guess also roomed park, you know. It's beautiful. There's lots of trails. The Wissahickin River is there. Uh there's trails all along it. But it's also just a cute neighborhood, and it's like minimal things to do. There's just like one coffee shop, one grocery store kind of thing. But it's it's it reminds me of a bigger, more slightly more urban version of the suburb I grew up in, which is Lansdown. It's it's a really cute, it's a cute neighborhood, that's for sure.

Keith Jopling 2:06

And how are they with you as a a resident there? You must be their most famous resident. So well, I guess they're pretty chilled. How do they treat you?

Kurt Vile 2:15

Just like a a kind of normal person, or uh well, I think it's a small of enough neighborhood that nobody nobody hounds me too much. People will say hi, people say people walk by and say love the new song, or something like that. Or definitely like the the dad types. Once in a while, they give I've gotten a couple cool gifts. The coolest gift I got, I will say, a few years ago was a uh they I get from the dads, I get certain art art projects. Like I got a cup the other day. It doesn't happen all the time, don't get me wrong, but I'm just thinking it's only been the dudes and the dads that have given me more than a hello and maybe a gift. But the coolest gift I ever got was some kind of really cool art project or piece of gear that somebody made where he, I guess they melted a record into a tray that's used, I guess, you know, for a for a dad's weed, you know what I mean? To like roll joint. It's like, but and then I look closer, and the actual record is uh the record Cool Water, not my Cool Water, but I wrote a song called Cool Water, and there's a million cool waters. I believe I believe that one is the uh son of a pioneer, some son of the pioneers or whoever, whoever were the first to write Cool Water, yeah.

Keith Jopling 3:40

It's funny to speak to you, and you've made this new album, Philadelphia's been good to me, album 10, and I know it's not a concept album, but it just immediately grabbed me that it's I'm I'm really into themed albums. The hometown theme, the kind of road theme of sorts is is a beautiful thing. Like I like a good road movie, you know, it's almost my favorite genre, and I like a good hometown record. You're 10 albums in, so just tell me like when did you first think I want to do a record about Philly? When did you kind of why and why now?

Kurt Vile 4:19

Uh well, I think I've really been calling out Philly the whole time. I called myself Philly's concert hitmaker, you know, early on in the beginning. And I have shouted out Philly, and I I mean I feel it all around me. I'm my my home studio's here, obviously, in Philly. Um, I think ever since maybe I signed to Verve Records, and I guess I technically I signed to them in 2020, you know, then the pandemic hit. My but my first Verve album didn't come out until 2022. But I think because I'm full circle, completely functional with making my records, if I want to, all from home, just like the early days, except I'm doing in a more classy, high fidelity, you know, uh Verve records, you know, major label, sort of cool major label, like medium, like it one foot in like historic music and the other in use the you you can use the leg of of the uh the major labels, powers or whatever, whatever, all that stuff, but because I'm fully functional in my own environment, and yeah, and it's also flipped because back when I when I first started recording things on my own that I've actually released, you know, later in life, I was in my 20s, you know, and I was uh hustling and working, and now I'm on the other side, and this is my career, and I'm in my 40s. And so for whatever reason, I called out Philly, I called it out on the last EP, my song Hit of the High Life, which I really like. But yeah, there's at least there's like three or three and a half times I call out Philly on this on this record. And while I was making it, Rob Schnaff, my my producer friend who's out in LA, he he asked me, is this your Philly record, Kurt? After I sung the lyrics to Philadelphia's been good to me. After I sung, you know, but that was after he had heard two other Philly references or more, and and then also the 250-year anniversary of when they signed, you know, the declaration of so-called independence in Philadelphia, you know. So it's that 250 year mark that was brought to my attention. And just because I'm here at this point in my career trucking along, I th I just figured it I wanted to be the I wanted to call out my city by name before somebody else does it again anytime soon. Because I it just all signs were pointing to this for for natural reasons, you know.

Keith Jopling 6:49

Yeah, so it's sort of come together and and and everyone's kind of I think latched onto it to some extent. But I love that because for a start, it makes an album stand out, and you need something, right? You need something. This is a world in which you can spend years making an album, and you know, you're whittling it down from I don't know, fift fifty songs to 10 or 11 songs and putting it out there, and it seems to very quickly evaporate in the world that we're in. So I think you need something like this.

Kurt Vile 7:24

Yeah, I think you're right. That's a good point. I I think in general, even that was my concept going in, I was like, I'm gonna treat this like my last record, as if I know that is unlikely to be the case, but the concept of putting everything in it, just making it as good as you can, and and I I don't know exactly what it's gonna be till it's over. I just know there's certain songs that have mad potential, and then other ones that you like that aren't that you're chasing and you're trying to make work, but that's the fun. And yeah, you definitely 50 tracks, 50 plus tracks up, lots left on the cutting room floor. But for all those reasons, it is true. Uh if you just crank them out, which which is a method, but there's it's amazing you you just see how much you see how much music is out there nowadays, like, or how competitive touring is, or look at these bigger music sites, you know, how there's so many records to review every day. So, yeah, to you gotta figure out uh how to how to stand out, but ideally in an organic way. But there's there's other people who are who are her marketing geniuses, you know, like are really good at that stuff.

Keith Jopling 8:35

So I mean, yeah, you know, it's I know you're not a marketing genius, but there's something genius about where you've landed, you know, from that perspective. Like you say, you know, you're an indie artist on a pretty significant major label. Uh it's so funny. I was you've done a few interviews and I was reading them just before this, and and there are always these labels, you know, you're the slacker poet of modern indie rock and all this kind of stuff. But you've gotten to be pretty successful with not a lot of baggage hanging around you, and that is a very aspirational thing for a lot of singer-songwriters and solo artists to kind of to get where you are. In a way, that is sort of accidental genius, I suppose. What's the secret, Kurt? Is it just keep on keeping on? Do you have certain people around you? Is it family? Is it Philly?

Kurt Vile 9:31

I I absolutely have people around me. My my manager Rennie, who is like my best friend, and he's he lives in Philly. He's a guy I met in Philly, and now he's he's managing all kinds of bands. Like, and he managed bands before me, but me and him together figured it out. Like, I I got signed to Manador Records through Rennie, but he's he's definitely a marketing genius. He's the one who's he comes up with killer ideas like you know, the Waking on a Pretty Days cover, that mural. Um uh he had really good ideas on this record as well. So yeah, I have I have all kinds of people helping me, and that's not the only one. But then, yeah, I guess I have my own drive as well. And I I think the main secret, if I has to tell you one secret, is if you are truly want to be a musician and you're passionate, and you know, uh you've got uh any bit of talent or drive, all you really gotta do is just keep keep cranking them out however you can. Like don't wait for your big break. And that's hard to say when you when you're struggling, because I I've been there. Uh, but you just gotta keep cranking it out yourself so people won't be able to ignore you because you keep showing up, you know, like and then eventually, ideally, a record label will pick you up. But so it's a combination of me and definitely I got a posse, you know.

Keith Jopling 10:56

Yeah, I think you're absolutely right. I mean, I've been thinking about this. I had a career change, if you like, myself recently. I've written a couple of books, and you put a book out, and nobody knows you've written a fucking book. You know, they just don't. So you have to put it out there somehow. And I think you're right. Try and get yourself into a position where you can't be ignored, and that there's some gravity around you, and that's where you seem to be. There's a lot of gravity around you, you know, with this major label, 10th record, big tour coming up, bigger audiences. And I just love that because, in a way, you know, this podcast, The Art of Longevity, it's sort of a really nice path that you've been on. And I know there's some struggle there, but it keeps on being productive and bearing fruit each time.

Kurt Vile 11:49

Well, you well, I mean, that's encouraging because for all the reasons you said, or the whole concept of your podcast, yeah, it's because it's not there's plenty of struggle and frustration, but then or even just the daily grind of things that you've done before, they get a little harder, or just getting it to the finish line tends to be a little harder every time, or you know, your body's a little more beat up than it was. But ultimately, I do see that. I saw it like sure, the pandemic. People kind of judge time with the pandemic, but that was that was interesting because I my transition to a major label was around that time. And when my album came out in 2022, shows were just starting to happen again, they were touch and go, you know, tours were about to happen and getting canceled. So I at first I was like, I don't know. It was hard to tell if I was just, you know, naturally getting less popular or something, which happens. Uh but somewhere along the way I saw the next generation and or and also whatever whatever growing pains to a major label. Like I I I'm on the other side of it now, and I and I can see that I've just been around long enough that there's like a next generation or kids, parents listen to me, you know. I I feel like I feel like more akin to more of my classic rock heroes or something. I'm somewhere in between. I'm that hybrid between indie rock and the classic singer-songwriter types that I often worship, you know, like Neil Young or whoever. Like I can just I if I can stay in my head, I could just show up on stage and people are stoked to be there and connect with the crowds, keep churning it out, you know, as long, you know, don't and don't try not to fake it, you know, just keep yeah, it's not a case of fake it till you make it.

Keith Jopling 13:49

I think it is a case of just getting better and better. I'm wondering if there were any particular stages or phases in terms of musicianship, your voice, performance, you know, maybe even songwriting, where you felt like you'd made that step change. Somehow you were making a little you were breaking through a little bit more.

Kurt Vile 14:15

Yeah, I mean that concept in general, that let's just like be a fighter, you know, like uh I think I really think every record there's been some, or you know, every few records there's been some leap. But I would say, you know, just the earliest one I can think of is the transition from sort of psychedelic low-five bedroom recording to making a more conventional studio record, which was definitely smoke ring for my Halo, you know, a song like Baby's Arms, track one, that that's an epic. I feel like if that song came out now with the right channels, it would be more of a success or something. But I I think every step of the way, there's there's that song that takes you to the next level. Uh, you know, a few albums later, I had Pretty Pimpin'. That was my first like catchy song that was actually a radio hit, you know, with also track one. So, you know, you go from Baby's Arms, which tugs on the heartstrings and it feels cinematic and beautiful and the concept, the love, you know, your loved one, your epic, an epic loved one concept, you know, my in my baby's arms. I think coming out swinging track one with a song like that, and then yeah, jumping, jump forward a little bit. Or, you know, track one on Waking on a Pretty Day is the following, the the following album. That's probably my epic, most epic song of all time. You know, just three track ones in a row. If you go consecutive to those three albums in a row, you'll see there's there's a next step up towards some territory that you haven't, you know, until then gotten to, basically.

Keith Jopling 16:00

Yeah, I I mean I like that because it it's given your body of work, if you like, to this point. There's a story, there's nice phases there. You know, I was asking on Reddit, which is a social media network that I don't mind. And I've asked some fans some questions, and it it it's really cool because the questions are from those different phases in a way. There's there's a couple of questions on there which you know they do hark back to. Hey, is Kurt gonna go back to those early records and do more instrumental stuff? Does he want to do more of that, play more of that live? And it's but it's done in a nice way because this they're following you, whatever you're gonna do. There's definitely an art to that.

Kurt Vile 16:38

I love that. That's that's sort of what I was talking about when I was trying to put into words like this phase of my life. I love that there are people talking about that. That that keeps me going, you know what I mean? In general.

Keith Jopling 16:52

The art of longevity is powered by Bang' Olifson, the luxury audio brand founded in 1925. For 100 years, Bang' Olofsen has been pushing the boundaries of audio technology and acoustic innovation. Bang and Olofsen's products combine beautiful sound, timeless design, and unrivaled craftsmanship. Yeah, these interviews I was uh reading were making me laugh in a way, because they uh diving deep into your lyrics. Because I'm not really a lyric person, I'm more I go along with uh I think I'm tunes first, maybe feel first, but your lyrics are famously conversational, like a sort of cinema verit of your life, like a kind of running commentary. So there's almost no point asking you about your lyrics in a sense, because they're right there on the record. But what I was interested in, because family seems to be uh become really, really important and central to you and your music, since I think Watch My Moves was like a family, a family record. Really enjoyed playing that around the house when it came out, sort of pandemic sort of you know, feel when everything was low, and you could put this record on, it was very comforting, and you were with your family. I mean, on this record again, it's come through. Do you sense consciously, or I guess when you're doing this conversational piece, you know you're writing about family, about your daughters, about their lives as well. How is that kind of manifested into your music?

Kurt Vile 18:30

I think it's just because uh that's what that is my life. You know, my my daughters are teenagers now, it's wild. It's like I'm just you're just constantly driving, you're constantly and that's also also your moment, like if you catch a ride to take them wherever they need to go, that's like uh that's your moment uh to be to be with them where they you're often joking or talking, you know, like catching up. It's like while you're both moving, you know. Like, I mean, like I'm lucky that I made that uh transition to getting a fully functional home studio, you know, the last few years because the writing was kind of on the wall. I was I I remember I was just so busy with music, and then I'd be on tour, and then I'd have to go make a record and go somewhere else and just seem like I was never home or or seem so yeah, I think just the fact that I've managed to combine it all. That's why I'm talking about it. I'm just singing about my life, you know.

Keith Jopling 19:39

Have your daughters got to a point where they're influencing you culturally, like with their music tastes and movies and things like that.

Kurt Vile 19:47

They probably I'm trying to think. I mean, I definitely uh definitely somebody like Chapel Roan grew on me for sure. I mean, she's obviously massive, but like certain songs, you know, even like her most famous song, Good Luck, Babe. I just that song give me chills. I feel like if I hear that on the road, you know, I'll probably tear up because it'll remind me of being home. But then, same deal, it goes the other way. Like one of the earliest bonding experiences with me and both my daughters is when I turned them on to Charlie XEX and then we'd which was she was new to me too. This was when I was promoing Watch My Moves. But like, then we'd all we'd play in the car would be Charlie XEX for a couple of years there, and we still do, but so I love that, you know. Yeah, I love I love the whole thing. I love that we influence each other, and we all play various versions of music and are all super into music, listening to music, so you know, mission accomplished in general.

Keith Jopling 20:47

Yeah, we're living in a really interesting time from that perspective. You know, when I was a teenager growing up, you'd get music tastes that were kind of different to your mom and dad. And you'd try and annoy them a little a bit. I mean, with me, it was playing metal or like lots of proggy stuff that they'd think was weird. It kind of nicely alienated me from my parents. Like I was moving on, you know, from my upbringing. You know, they'd watch new sounds coming up like through the 80s and 90s, and they would think it was terrible. I would think it was fantastic. But we've moved on, haven't we, to a kind of shared love of classic and new bands, which is, I just think is a really, really cool thing for parents and kids to enjoy? You know, we see it like they're turning up to gigs and stuff and enjoying the same records, singing the lyrics. Do you see that at your shows as well? Do those dads that are giving you the weird gifts bring bring along their kids to your shows as well?

Kurt Vile 21:47

Oh yeah, yeah, no, and and then I just see young kids in general. Like, I mean, it's a good balance. I know that my I'm aware that my music kind of spans it can sp it spans like uh Young and old, but to see it in a concert, and uh I mean, and this will be the first time I'm seeing it with like the muscle of a new record since last time, because I since since 2022 when the last one came out, and this is the first time we could have like a proper press campaign, like because the last one was muddled in the pandemic, etc. So it's exciting. I have no idea what the what it's gonna be like, even though I'm gonna be on the road in less than two weeks. Except that I know that I really like I I feed off the crowd now where I used to be more shy, you know. So I I'm excited about that. That's like one of my most exciting parts about touring now that I think about. I think about feeding off the crowd and and just being in the moment playing the music, you know.

Keith Jopling 22:53

Yeah, it's important to be able to do that as you've gotten to be the size you are as an artist, you know, to be able to go out and entertain big crowds like that. I mean, how did that happen, that transition from being shy and a little bit like you know, hiding in a way on stage to what you can do now?

Kurt Vile 23:11

Yeah, I mean, I I still I still am naturally shy, but I think it sort of reminds me of I read I read a Willie Nelson book, you know, of autobiography. I feel like by the end of it he said something. He's like, uh when I play a show, I I start with one person, you know, I look at that one person who's feeling it, or or he lights them up so they are feeling it, and then one at a time he he connects with somebody in the crowd until before you know it, the whole house is lit up. And uh I I've sort of noticed when I'm playing, I'll like look out, and then people aren't certain you're looking at them, but then they'll nod their head a little, and then if you nod it back, there's little things like that. Not I'm not saying it's not like a gimmick. I don't it does obviously a master of that concept who takes it really far. It's somebody like Nick Cave, you know, he'll he'll go out there and really connect with the crowd. Uh but I I kind of space out on my guitar and just look out there or sing, sing into somebody's face for a second. And there's, you know, so you could you could just sort of tell the people who are receptive, and that's that's the beauty, you know.

Keith Jopling 24:26

Yeah, I love that. Because if you hadn't read that, you wouldn't have tried it. It's taking these little inspirations which you can still get at any point in your career, that change things for you and for the for the audience as well. I think it's really cool. You've got a big tour coming up. Uh, I think you're going on the road for quite a long time. I I assume when you're you're taking quite a big team on the road these days. And as you say, you've got two weeks to go, you're not quite sure what to expect. How do you prepare for it? Because it's a bit of responsibility on you, isn't it? I mean, in a way, the buck stops with you, everybody's there for you. How do you think about that? How do you handle that?

Kurt Vile 25:12

Yeah, it's interesting. I mean, I I I'll get I'll get real with you right now and tell you exactly how this one's going. Is uh I had a rehearsal with everybody but the drums uh about a month and a half ago, and uh and I before then I hadn't played much. I've been so busy with the press, etc. And I've been pretty fried, you know, just turning in the record took a lot out of me, even though I'm proud of it. And then so I had anxiety. I was like, I don't even I can't believe I have to learn this whole new record again because I out of memory of the previous record. But then I discovered that actually the all the new songs are really simple, so that that that was exciting. But then last week, a couple of weeks ago, we had the drums, and it it was trickier to get it all together, but we figured it out, and then I was about to have another rehearsal before tour, but the writing was on the wall that it would it would we'd be fried before we hit the road, even so it we're just going out into the universe and we're gonna wing it, you know. That's that's what's happening this time, and I I just made this decision yesterday, and just that's it. Sometimes you just gotta be in the moment, like uh it's gotta be fresh for the people, and they're gonna get something raw at first or whatever, you know. Uh, but luckily we've been on on and off the road for years now, so that that's sort of the fun. Sometimes you gotta let go and be like, actually, it'll be more fun to not know what's gonna happen.

Keith Jopling 26:47

You know, I really like that because sometimes you can turn as a fan, you can turn up and see you can see a band that are so well drilled, and in a way, it sort of it takes a little bit of the edginess off that sometimes. And I guess the other thing is that you will have people that are following you to some extent. They're gonna come to a few shows and they're gonna follow you across on tour a little bit and they're gonna see the show develop, which is another great thing to see.

Kurt Vile 27:16

Yeah, I I I think I I like that idea. Sometimes you get either way, it's fine, really. Like sometimes you get locked into playing close to the same set every night, but within the songs, there's so many variables that it feels different. But I I also like the idea of we have so many songs now, if we mix it up every night, it'll make it a little more adventurous for us. You just never know what's gonna happen. So I'm keeping it open, you know.

Keith Jopling 27:42

Yeah, I had Jim James on as a guest, I guess, maybe close to a year ago now. They were preparing to do some one of their festivals, like their one big family festivals, with three nights, they were headlining three nights and doing three different sets. Yeah. Which I thought was crazily ambitious, but fantastic if you're at the show or at the festival. I mean, you're right, you've got you've actually got a really large catalogue now, and you've also done a couple of covers over the years. So, how do you approach a set list at the beginning and during a long tour?

Kurt Vile 28:19

I'd say luckily at this point, because even last summer we were torn with the pixies all summer, uh, two nights per city. So we got all our we got plenty of muscle memory, fun, you know, we got plenty of music muscles, but that's that's sort of the fun, and like, and a little nerve-wracking is you just don't you really don't know what's gonna happen until you that first show. Like you could practice all you want. It's just different. Once you play the show, that's the ultimate rehearsal, and that's when it really starts to open up. So just kind of accept and surrender to the fact that you don't know what's gonna happen is actually if you were to pick one, is it scary or is it fun? Sure, it's both, but if I'm gonna pick one, I'm gonna say it's for fucking fun, you know? It's fun to not know.

Keith Jopling 29:08

No, I like that. So going into some of these fan questions, and uh it's really interesting that quite a few questions center around this idea of you having a couple of personas, like uh being a very acoustic and and banjo-based artist almost, and then having a full electric, you know, indie rock setup and band. Are you two kind of different musicians when you're doing those things? Or how do you transition between those modes?

Kurt Vile 29:40

Well, yeah, I mean, I think I'm a lot more than that as well, which is fun. You know, I I love that. It's true. That's kind of where it's sort of my concept of treat this like my last record came from. It's like another alluring concept that floats in front of me. It's like, do I do I make is this my last conventional sort of songwriter record in a long time? And do I just go down all these weird avenues? Yeah, like you said, somebody was mentioning, is he gonna make this an instrumental music? I have like so much archival stuff as well, and and new instrumental stuff, new electronic stuff, like so much in the vault that like like if I if I disappeared for a minute, I could really crank out a multi-volume all that new. I it's just like the possibilities are endless. So I like that I can weave in and out. And then I I I've I know for a long time that's always been a big dynamic in our set, is like you can rock for a cluster of songs and then the band disappears and you play solo and go back to the rock and roll again, and that that's all that's pretty much 99% of the time effective on the audience. But that's nothing new. I mean, ever heard of Neil Young and then Neil Young Crazy Horse, or you know, but it's my version of it, you know.

Keith Jopling 30:57

As time goes on and you've developed as an artist, and you mentioned this earlier, you've kind of gotten closer to the Neil Young's and the John Primes and all of your heroes, and you've collaborated with some of those people. Do you now see yourself on the other side as part of that lineage, that kind of you know you can add to the canon of works in that league? Or do you see yourself do you this there is there an element of I'm not there yet? I gotta keep going for a long time before I can get there.

Kurt Vile 31:38

Well, you know, these are interesting times because I feel like modern music, and I like a lot of modern music, but I feel like still there are always exceptions, but I feel like in popular music, I don't know how many people are are doing the the John Prime thing or the classic songwriter thing or the classic rock Neil Young hybrid. I feel like a lot of new songs I new records I hear, they sound there's they sound like computers, you know. Not not plenty don't, but I'm just saying because of that, I I'm not saying I'm I'm I'm always influenced by John Prime, and I'm I'm close enough. I've I feel like I'm this generation's, you know, my age version of that for sure, uh and and the Neil Young's, but I'm like, you know, I'm like a medium-sized version, but I'm happy. I because whatever this niche is, wherever size rooms I play, and where I'm at as a songwriter and the fans I have, I feel like I fill that void, you know? So like it's exciting to have one foot and have been able to collaborate with Prime, of course. Like, or any of those people I collaborate with, Terry Allen or you gotta put yourself out there and I'm like uh chase them like a fanboy and be uncomfortable. And because you're such a big fan, you want them to know who you are. To get so to get to the other side and actually work with them is yeah, it's it makes you just it gives you a little bit, you get to take a little bit of them with you, you know. So that just a little bit, and that that's amazing.

Keith Jopling 33:26

The art of longevity is brought to you with Bang and Olifson. Since 1925, Bang and Oleson has created iconic audio and home entertainment products to the highest standards of sound, craft, and design. You can find more about the partnership on our web pages and by signing up to the mailing list where you can then get episodes first, plus invitations to events and offers. Finally, we want to get to 100 shows and beyond with the art of longevity. And the only way we can do that is with your help and advocacy. So please rate, review, and share the podcast wherever you can. Back to the conversation to wrap up this episode, and we'll be back with another great guest very soon. I got a follow-up question on this from one of your fans on Reddit. Trillibree. I don't know, some of these re some of these Reddit names are crazy. But he says, I've been curious about how the American primitive solo guitar thing influenced Kurt's music, as he mentioned, John Farhe, and was, I believe, friends, tourmates of Jack Rose. Tell me more about that influence coming through.

Kurt Vile 34:36

Well, the earliest answer to that is that my dad was constantly playing bluegrass and old-time music. You know, he's obsessive like I am. He doesn't no, he plays a little fiddle, he picked it up later in life, but mainly he's just a music fan. And but he's the same as me. Uh, or or vice versa, you know. He'll play this these songs over and over, and he he was playing Bull Weevil Blues later, later on, which is uh from the American folk anthology that's Charlie Patton. And that's also my dad got me that that uh Charlie Patton box set that came out on Revenant Records when it came out One Christmas, and Revenant Records is John Fahy's label. You know, he put that out himself. Uh, and he's got another compilation like the American folk anthology called American Primitives. American Primitives, like like the Reddit fella said, Um, which is like John Fahey's favorite records from the old days, like like the American folk anthology. But the cool thing about that compilation is that every song is good because John Fahey's an incredible curator and musician, and he went door to door asking for phonographs, but he also rediscovered Skip James and things like that. He actually, so anyway, I remember I had this John Fahy book. I mean, this Charlie Patton book written by John Fahey that came in in the box set to the Charlie Patton box set, and and Jack Rose, he worked for one day at the brewery where I worked, and he's like, Oh, you you got the Charlie Patton box set? I'm like, Yeah. You know, he knew just by one glance at that book. He kept telling me who he was and that he'd play it. But I but that was a cosmic thing. Like he he he he didn't come back after one day of bottling beer. He told my boss, he's like, I couldn't play guitar for a week, you know. At the time my boss laughed at him, you know. But then I realized who he was later, and I finally did see him, and I was like, holy shit, I mean, John Fahey's my favorite artist of all time, you know, and this guy has literally caught the torch to John Fahy. He was an unbelievable guitar player at Wright in Philly, and he, you know, he's got a song called Kensington Blues. Kensington is the neighborhood where the brewery was, just above Fishtown.

Keith Jopling 36:55

So that's just cosmic. I really love this sort of bringing the lineage into the music that you're playing. And I I think a lot of bands, a lot of young bands that I see are doing exactly that, or they're trying to do it. I mean, this weekend I went to see I didn't know what to expect. It was actually the launch party for uh a new type of streaming service that does curated albums called Cantileader. And there was a bunch of bands on. I saw this band Shaking Hand, and it was a three-piece band, and um when they got going, you could tell where they were coming from. Like it was coming from Radiohead, but it was going back to pavement. I think the Shaking Hand thing is a reference to a band called Women that I didn't even know about, and so there's a lot of this um young bands are kind of getting into carrying influences forward from before they were even born. But I think there's something wonderful about that. How much do you recognize that in yourself, in young bands around, maybe in who the the next Philly's next hitmaker?

Kurt Vile 38:08

Yeah, that's interesting because uh there's a band from a younger band from Philly that I love and have toured with a a lot called Flari, F-L-O-R-R-Y. And they are exactly like that. They that they were refreshing because I was like, one, I can't believe these young kids live in my town, but they they are the opposite of what I described earlier. They're modern music that sounds nothing like computers, that's blatantly like uh almost like on the spectrum influenced by me. You know, like it's like the kind the cut the way that I am, or whatever, you know, all in all the classics, they're so deep into the classics. They still like modern music and stuff too. They just but their music sounds old and it's got that raw energy. I love that. And I also love I love seeing I love that these younger bands are coming out sounding super 90s because 90s is their classic rock. That's that's wild to me, but it's awesome.

Keith Jopling 39:06

I mean, you hinted before, like, about keeping on, keeping on, just putting it out there. But I want to finish on just a couple of questions. First of all, it's that classic question of like what would you tell your younger self? But we could even frame it in terms of what would you say to those young bands? Because what I see is I see a glint in their eye, and it's a sort of mix of self-belief and positive energy, but also a little bit of desperation because these are these are difficult times to choose to be a musician and to go down that path. It's not an easy choice, but a lot of these bands are coming back, you know, they're kind of reviving the classic sounds and and bringing that lineage forward. What would you say to them in terms of encouragement, if you like?

Kurt Vile 39:53

Yeah, I mean, I would I'd definitely say one, what I said earlier is just keep doing it. Play as much as you can, you know, book shows, try to get shows at clubs, sure, and and house shows and book shows with your friends. And I know this is a very more and more non-physical world, but if you can make something physical, you know, all those things are coming back anyway. That's the beauty, like cassettes and hell, CDRs, whatever. Just make some I I would say my advice is to just make something physical that you can hand people. And if not that, you know, but you also have the benefit of all the Instagrams, just you know, my Instagram, I I use it plenty now, but my space was my my outlet back then. And the combination of just put yourself out there any way you can, you know. Yeah, sure, there's all these challenges now. It's true, it's uh there's always challenges along the way, and this this this world now is a little more sci-fi insanity, you know, a little a lot. But if you're passionate, you can get lost in the music you're making in that moment. So, like, what's what's any of that noise when you're like getting lost in your guitar or whatever and recording your next song? Just work at it every day, whatever, however you can. Get in, get in the zone with your own music, you know.

Keith Jopling 41:24

A lot more in years. What are you most proud of right now in terms of where you've gotten to or looking back?

Kurt Vile 41:33

Yeah, I'm proud. I mean, I'm I'm proud of all my albums, but uh, but I'm also it in the moment, I'm proud of I I've reached some kind of new uh place. Yeah, I'm proud every step of the way where I've I've made it. And I I I feel like I'm in some other kind of classic zone. I feel like my voice has evolved. I feel like this record is really like the good kind of emotional record. It says more than just cranking it out. It's it's like a way of life with me. I'm just proud that I was able to, you know, get another record out there that that isn't tossed off, that that I lived hard in, you know, the way that I live hard in all of them. But this this record is kind of deep and epic, like the way Waking on a Pretty Days was deep and epic, except it's the modern version of myself, you know. I don't know, that record came out in 2013, so this is 13 years later, and I'm amazed that I could keep going. It's you know, it's it's a struggle, uh, but it's a beautiful struggle, you know.

Keith Jopling 42:34

Yeah, I've gotta say, you know, as a fan, this is a really, really cool time because it feels to me like a lot of bands who are maybe as far in as you. I mean, I had Broken Social Scene on last time, they just put out a new album. It's a wonderful record. In that indie world, there is a lot going on. It feels like a lot of artists kind of raising their game to make fantastic albums. And it's it's a really great thing as a fan to be on the receiving end of this stuff because it wasn't always that way. Oh, that's sweet, yeah.

Kurt Vile 43:08

That's awesome. I love I love Broken uh Social Scene. I I look forward to hearing their new album.

Keith Jopling 43:14

With the tour coming up, is there a particular song that you are looking forward to playing the most, or a couple of songs from the record?

Kurt Vile 43:24

I I'm excited about the idea of playing pretty much every song on the new record. Not not every night, but swapping them in and out. We finally have enough in a weird way. This is this having this new record under our belt allows us to be really, you know, to mix it up per night. So we'll we'll see. We'll see if that really happens. You know, sometimes you get sometimes you uh fall in in line with like arrangements of a set list, and you that's rewarding as well. But we'll the c the idea is to to play almost the whole record, but not the same songs every night, you know.

Keith Jopling 44:04

I mean, one of the things people tell me now is that one of the real pleasures of carrying on in this age where you don't really know if you're succeeding, or you don't know what a hit is, or nobody gets in the charts anymore, is you play your new songs and you just give it time and you see which ones come to the surface as those that people really take to.

Kurt Vile 44:25

Yeah, it's true. I I remember uh when my I I guess maybe it was, I think it was my last full-length Mandador album called Bottle It In. And we didn't, yeah, we were trying to figure that out as well, but my drummer noticed it first looking out at the crowd. He said whenever we played bass acquirts, that the crowd would be bowing their head and into it. You you notice which songs as you go, but that's like that's the crazy part. It's the it's nerve-wracking, but a little fun. You gotta put yourself out there, you gotta screw up in in front of thousands of people, quote unquote screw up, you know, until you've can figure it out, you know.

Keith Jopling 45:02

Are you gonna play Avalanches of Snow? Because that's I think possibly my favorite, but I'm a sucker for a good album closer. But it's quite a sophisticated song.

Kurt Vile 45:13

That's definitely a song we're gonna we're gonna be playing, of course. You're in London? Yeah, I have to wait a while, I think. If you're gonna be at the show, we'll make sure it's ready for you.

Keith Jopling 45:24

All right. You're on. Good deal. Okay, Kurt, I'm gonna let you go so you could just have a little break before carrying on with the rest of your day. I I've really enjoyed the conversation. As I say, the the music you make is a comfort, it's a delight, it kind of washes over you in the best possible way. And I love it for that reason, because that's what stands out in the music that you're making, which is pretty suitable for I think for the times we live in.

Kurt Vile 45:51

Oh, thank you so much. Uh I can't wait to hear the the show. I I had a great conversation with you as well. And I'll see you in London. If you want to come out, you come say hello for sure. Okay, you're on. Best of luck. Thanks for this. All right.

Keith Jopling 46:04

Cheers. Bye bye. All right, bye-bye.