197. Defeat Loneliness: One Psychologist Connection Strategy with Patricia Bathory

In this episode, we explore the pressing issue of loneliness, recognized as a global public health concern.

Join us as we discuss the importance of connection, the skills needed to foster relationships, and the impact of disconnection on our mental and physical health.

With insights from Patricia Bathory, a psychotherapist and author, we delve into practical strategies for overcoming loneliness and building meaningful connections in our lives.


Who is Patricia Bathory? 

Psychotherapist and author of "Connected" Expert in relationship-building and emotional intelligence Advocate for intentional connection in a disconnected world

What You'll Discover:
🔥 The importance of connection in combating loneliness and isolation
🚀 Strategies for overcoming relationship illiteracy and building meaningful connections
💪 Tips for navigating difficult conversations and managing conflict
🧠 The essential inner work required to foster healthy relationships and emotional regulation

Why This Episode Matters:
In a time when disconnection is prevalent, Patricia's insights will empower you to:

• Cultivate deeper connections with yourself and others
• Approach relationships with curiosity and compassion
• Transform your interactions and improve your overall well-being

🎧 Tune in now and take the first step towards enhancing your relationships and emotional health!

"Whenever we have a strong or outsized reaction to anything in our lives, it's a cue to get really curious about what's really going on for me." - Patricia Bathory

Resources Mentioned

• Patricia Bathory's book: "Connected" (available on Amazon and other retailers)
• Website: patriciabathory.com

3 Ways that Dr. Adrienne Youdim Can Support You

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Transcript

Dr. Adrienne Youdim

Welcome, Patricia. I'm so excited to have you here on Health Byte for this very, very important topic. I'm very excited to be here. Thank you for inviting me. You recently published a book which is absolutely delicious and so timely on connection. And I feel like it's weird because this topic of connection has come up for several years now, right? Our US Surgeon General has put out a report on it in the last year. The UK put a report out on the state of loneliness. I think it was now four or five years ago almost, it's been several years. So in a way it feels like It's cliche to say we've lost connection because we've been talking about it so much. However, I feel like every moment gives us a new opportunity to revisit it, including the present moment.

Patrica Bathory

Absolutely. Absolutely. And I'm interested that you said about the Vivek Murthy's book. I actually quote him in my book about the loneliness epidemic. It is so serious because there's two problems there. The one is where we're not interested in other people. So that's one thing, the lack of interest. But there's also the problem that sometimes we are interested. We just don't have the skills. We have become illiterate in how to connect and how to build these relationships and maintain them. So that's where the book comes in is, okay, so yes, we do have this problem. But now that what if you decide to have these relationships? How do you build them? How do you maintain them? How do we continue having these long term connections to one another?

Dr. Adrienne Youdim

I feel that illiteracy, and I see it in our children, in our teens, not just because of social media, we talk about social media so much, but also just the circumstances, the pandemic, so many of them had to school from home. But before we get to all of these important points, which we will get into, I'm curious what sparks your interest in zoning in on this particular problem and writing about it?

Patrica Bathory

I think the main reason is because I'm a psychotherapist and I see people in private practice and with all my clients, people will come in and I found that the common denominator truly is relationships. Ultimately, if you're struggling to get a promotion at work, if you feel like you're not seen or heard, if you're having issues with your spouse or your children, the bottom line comes to the fact that we are if not illiterate, at least we're not excelling at relationships. We're not relationship masters. We're relationship disasters, you know? So when I started seeing this, I think I realized that it's much more common and really is something we all struggle with. And I thought, well, what if I wrote a book about some of these common sense that are not common sense, that everybody should know but we don't know? uh what if i wrote a book and then just amplified this message that i see in the office every day so that's where the idea came in and you know how how am i going to put it together in a book that was you know the second step is like how do you make that engaging and the solution i came for that is putting in a lot of stories so the book reads real quick because Even though there's a part of it that is a manual, how do we get along better with people? There's a lot of storytelling. So I bring in case studies from my office of people, like from people that come to see me, stories of some of my really good and successful friends who allowed me to use their stories and how they excel because of these relationships. So that's in long story short, how the book came about.

Dr. Adrienne Youdim

Yeah, no, it's, it's a wonderful read. And yeah, we can find ourselves and see ourselves in those stories, because they are very universal. So I want to speak to the illiteracy component. And, you know, I feel like it's become so easy. And I feel like disconnection has become accessible. And what I mean by that is, that we have all these great technological advances that are really convenient. DoorDash for food or our groceries can be brought to us. We have Amazon. While it's very convenient, it's taken away those opportunities where you might stand in line and, you know, look into somebody's eyes or make a comment to the cashier or run into somebody, you know, at the supermarket aisle. Those opportunities to meet and connect have essentially been engineered out of our lives But it's also so convenient, right? And then I think there's another layer on top of that, because I think the pandemic really did change our way of doing things, we haven't quite, I don't even want to say quite returned because perhaps it's not even that there is no return. We've realized that we can effectively conduct our businesses from home. We can have consultations via Zoom. And so there's less of this initiative to go back to being in person again, because of convenience. And now it's become maybe not only illiterate, but also lazy. And I see that hole in myself, right? There's an extra hurdle to get over in order to get out, put your clothes on, and do things IRL. Can you speak to that a little bit? Do you feel that as well? And maybe you can talk a little bit about why that is. Maybe there's a psychological component towards that shift towards laziness. And then how can we obviate that?

Patrica Bathory

I think as you're talking, there's a there's a, there was a word really resonating in my head, which is the contactless delivery. And I'm like, Oh, Christ, no, not contactless. I'm already like ordering online, you're already coming to my house and contactless, you're just going to drop it there and leave and take a picture that it was delivered. It has come to a point where we don't interact at all. and you know it yes it is very convenient absolutely it is because i don't have to pick it up you know i'm doing something i might be seeing a client when i'm done my lunch is there and it's all good there is the the the aspect of it which is very convenient this being said i think we have to become intentional because we know it's bad for us And I think the lack of connection, we are gregarious human beings, we are connected individuals. If you think of psychology of babies, remember the babies that are left there where you give them food, you give them water, you change them, but you don't touch them, you don't speak to them, you don't connect to them, those babies don't thrive. those babies tend to actually die, which shows you empirically how much of a necessity connection is. So it's not woohoo stuff like, oh, I don't know, maybe I will, maybe I won't. So when you say that, yes, we are becoming lazy and disconnected, I agree. But I think the same way nobody's really compelled to. I'm going to go run today. I'm going to go work out today. I'm going to go eat healthy today. I also think I'm going to go make connections today is something that we need to call ourselves to do and be intentional and be disciplined about it because it is good for us. It is necessary for long lives for dementia is also associated with a lack of connection. So there's a lot of reasons for why we need to remain connected. And if whether it's COVID or the facilities of day to day like that, the ease with which we don't need to make connections, if these have made connections more difficult, I think it's on us to make it intentional. you know I like I can go on and on about this topic because this is what I do but I'm like if you want here it is this is these are the steps we can do to make sure we keep connections alive take your calendar let's pull our calendars up people it is 2024 how many months do we have left how many active connection uh outreach will you make call your parents right now, whoever's listening to this podcast, call your parent today. If you don't have a parent alive, call an uncle or an aunt or a cousin, right, the importance of this. So I think it is intentional, we need to start step by step, because it makes a difference for them, but also for us.

Dr. Adrienne Youdim

Yeah, it's interesting that you compare the behaviors to eating well or exercise. Because I think Well, the way I think about it, at least, is if I really wanted to connect with this person, it should be easy, right? I should want to do it. When I think about it, I really do, but there is that inertia. I think what you say is that we have to overcome that inertia, just like we have to overcome the inertia of any other habit.

Patrica Bathory

Anything that is good is not easy. I mean, it's hard to say, but it's true. Right. However, everything that is good is not easy to push through that initial hurdle and get the momentum going. But once you get going, oh, it's so good. Oh, it's so good to be healthy. Oh, it's so good not to go to the hospital, not to get sick. Oh, it's so good to not have issues. You know, you speak a lot about health and all that. So it's so great to be healthy. And health does have this psychological aspect of connection and relationships, because that's how we are made.

Dr. Adrienne Youdim

Yeah, absolutely. I was stunned when I did read the Surgeon General's report because it compared loneliness to tobacco, to obesity, to all of these other lifestyle behaviors that we know to be harmful, alcohol use. And it's crazy to think that isolation can be just as costly and just as deadly and actually cause physical consequences. I think a lot of times we know the psychological consequences of isolation and loneliness, but many people may not know that it increases your chances of having a heart attack, for example, which is mild.

Patrica Bathory

Well, and dementia and I mean these are again not who we're not talking about things that we feel like it may cause, we've got hard evidence demonstrating I mean if you look at the, the, the degree of increase in dementia and of cognitive function of the elderly during I mean, that's irrefutable. It's irrefutable the impact of loneliness, the impact of lack of connection of relationships. So that's definitely something that we need to address and let's improve and let's do more of. This being said, the second thing is even if we do want to, a lot of us don't know how to keep and maintain good relationships. And I think this is a little bit of what the book comes in and says, all right, because it's, you know, it's like, right, I know I need to eat healthy. Yes, we all agree. I'm sure 100% of your listeners know and all my readers are like, yeah, of course, relationships are good for us. Great. But how do I get along with that difficult coworker? How do I get along with my sister who just gets in my case all the time? And my mom, oh my God, my dad, he doesn't get me. How do we get along with people because ultimately it's you know the big philosopher says the evil is others we are all perfect so how do we get along with these other humans in our lives that are so difficult my partner my kids and everyone else that's an important point that i want you to touch on

Dr. Adrienne Youdim

But before that, I feel like we need to understand this setup a little bit. And as you were speaking, it made me think, we have this baseline of normal, contentious, let's say, or difficult relationships, right? Or disagreements that have always been there. But I feel like right now, the level of discord and disagreement feels so amplified. Like our disagreement over politics feels so amplified. I mean, I always remember, there's always been divisions in politics, right? There's always been disagreements during Thanksgiving. But we saw this kind of be ratcheted up somewhat during the pandemic. And we all thought, I think that once things settled down and went back to normal, that we would simmer down as well but it feels like we've just continued to escalate right can you speak to why that is like what is going on and and and why do we continue to like ratchet up that temperature i think i'll go back to the our inability our inability to

Patrica Bathory

our inability to have good relationships, our inability, our lack of skills to get along. So, you know, this, this extreme polarization that we live, North America, South America, pretty much everywhere in the Middle East, everywhere, we're all polarized, everybody is kind of on a side, you cannot have a, I actually had a conversation where You know, I was trying to be more moderate. I'm like, because I'm not really, you know, I'm not part of the extreme right. I'm not part of the extreme left. I'm kind of like center over there. I like some of these policies, some of these over here and kind of a, but you need to position yourself. And I'm like, I am positioning myself as somebody who sees that there's good here and there's good here. But no, it's like you need to position yourself as in right or left. So so then even when you choose to be a little more moderate, there is this requirement for you to be a little more polarized. And I think because we haven't learned how to be different. Because it's like, okay, if you're right, I'm left, or vice versa, then immediately, you're good or bad. Whereas really, the most interesting thing is, what is it that why is it that you think that way? Right? Having this curiosity to ask that second question, you might think a certain policy is better, or a certain football team is better, or a certain sport is better, or certain types of food are better for you. Well, then tell me more about that. The curiosity. I think we've lost the ability to be curious. We're immediately right or wrong. And if you don't agree with me, it's not because you might have something different to add, but because you're wrong. And that is something that's a big behavior of all my class that come in with this difficulty in relationships. I'm always asking them to try to see things from the other person's perspective, or try to be curious about why is it that they think this way. And I think if we take some of these tactics, curiosity, perspective, listening to learn without judgment, without, you know, waiting for my turn to talk, no, no, listen to learn. If you do all these things, it tends to improve already how we relate because at least it gives me a chance to see the world through your eyes, right? It doesn't limit it to my, the way I see it.

Dr. Adrienne Youdim

All of these tactics or strategies that you describe are very sensible, right? Like curiosity, engagement, good listening. How, though, does one suppress, I think you need a level of, of kind of peace of mind or lack of reactivity, intentionality. But how does one temper that? I think what's a, it's a very knee jerk, reactivity that everyone is experiencing right now. I don't how do you get from reactivity to curiosity? How do you temper that? what feels like a very innate response.

Patrica Bathory

I think the first step for that is recognizing that I don't want to be reactive and I want to be responsive. Right? Because if I'm talking to somebody who is knee-jerk and is reactive and believes that that's the right way, there's only a right answer. It is a very inflexible thinking and I can't change what you don't want changed. So I think that's number one. There are some people, and I think that the lucky thing is it's a very small percentage of the population, is that they don't even want to change. For those, you know, I can't help you if you don't want to be helped. For the other majority of the population that we tend to have these knee jerk reactions. It really is about, again, the intention and really wanting to change and really recognizing that responding is better than reacting. I think the biggest thing we need to do is get you on the bandwagon of is responding better than reacting. And if you agree, all right, we have you on our team. Now, once you're on our team, of course, you're still you're still gonna knee jerk react, because that's just how we are. But then if that's not what you want to do, every time you do it, then we do the technique. It's like, shoot, I did it again. How can I create a space between my reaction and my response. So that's what we do like in in therapy with people that want to be more tolerant or people that are having difficulties with family members and spouses and children. It's like creating that space that does exist before we blow up or we before we say something hurtful. We open up that space, recognizing that there is a space and then how big can you make that space and a little bit wider, a little bit wider until it gets to a point where You have the reaction, is internally like... I want to kill you, but you know what? Nope. Let me try to see this from your point of view. Hang on a second. What are you saying? Oh, all right. I still disagree, but I don't have to go there and say something mean or hurtful or whatever it is. But that's like last page of the book. The first few pages are about making mistakes and being generous with yourself first so that you can create that space. And every time it gets bigger and bigger till the point where you truly are responding to things and not reacting.

Dr. Adrienne Youdim

I'd love for you to say more about the generosity piece. I think generosity towards ourselves and towards the other is one of those missing links. Say more about how one cultivates that. And also, if you could touch on, I feel like when we do get reactive, there's a level of kind of shame or embarrassment that then furthers maybe our resolve, you know, it gets in the way of double down on it.

Patrica Bathory

Yeah, exactly doubling down made such a big scene it's really, how do you go back and say, I might have been wrong, right. And I think that's, you know, it ties well with the generosity thing I think. It's interesting because I do have, I'm working very hard with a couple of clients on the whole process of generosity with self. And they are people that tend to be very generous with other people, but not with themselves. How do you expand that? Because the minute you do expand that generosity with yourself, you become less judgmental of others as well. Because you see how you can make an honest mistake. You see how you can make a bad call, and that does not make you a bad person. And if that is possible for me, then it's possible for you too. That's the beauty of it, generosity. You start with this, I'm going to connect to myself. And you have a good relationship with yourself where you see yourself as a fallible being that sometimes reacts, that sometimes says the wrong thing, that sometimes is hurtful. But that's okay, because tomorrow I will try harder. I'll try to be better. I'll try to be a better person. And if you embark on this journey, then you start seeing that doing a bad thing does not define me as a bad person. And once that becomes really incorporated into yourself, i.e. when your connection to self is well done, is solid, you're very good in that place, then you can extend to connecting to others and extending that generosity to others. Because you can only be nice and generous and understanding and non-judgmental towards others if you're not towards yourself.

Dr. Adrienne Youdim

Tell us how that works. Like I'm envisioning, right, I'm envisioning a conversation in which somebody blows up, right. And, or says the wrong thing. And then invariably, there's that rumination piece, right, like revisiting it over and over and and that and second guessing and I could have said this and I could have said that and why did I say this and what so can you like how does that look how does one get themselves out of that it's almost like a self reaffirming right that that rumination is yeah well the software I don't know what the it's very specific case by case but if the rumination is about regret I shouldn't have

Patrica Bathory

Right. Do something about it. There is something you can do. And I think that's where again, you know, that's what the beauty, the beauty of the work on yourself is, is being able to take a step back and say, maybe I will say I'm sorry, you know, owning up to doing these things that they're so liberating, right, writing a letter saying, you know what, yesterday, I did not behave my best. That's or you know, that that's how I'm behaving. But that's not the person I want to continue to be. I know that I have a short temper. Sometimes for anger management, people come in and it's like, I know I blow up. Sometimes I see hurtful things where I elevate my voice and I did it again yesterday. The important thing is I am working on this. And my commitment to you is if I'm doing this seven times a week, I'm going to try to do it only six because it's not binary. We don't become you know, you don't go from a person ultra reactive to a just a placid, responsive person. That does not happen overnight. It is a process. You have to understand it, respect it, tolerate it and understand that. You know what? I blow up today and I blow up. I'll blow up tomorrow, but I won't for the following two days. And that is victory. Right, like what does success look like and to me success is when the curve trends upwards right even it but in that up up trending curve. it, you will have ups and downs. But as long as the big curve is up, that defines success. Because otherwise, we lose the motivation to keep going, we lose the motivation to keep, you know, stepping forward. If every failure every, you know, oh, shoot, I should have done better been better. If that's going to be a stopping point, then we stop. So we need to have that generosity to be okay to fail and recognize that, you know what? I'm a human being. I failed, but that's okay. I will continue on the path.

Dr. Adrienne Youdim

Yeah, it's like bringing the growth mindset into relationships. Absolutely. It's not something that I've thought of. Okay, so, I mean, that's addressing the personal piece, right? Like taking ownership when you are the one. How do you react or respond when you feel like you're on an impasse or at an impasse on the other side? So you feel like you're willing, generous, open, but the other party is, you know, you feel like you're at a standstill in terms of where they stand. How do you get around that?

Patrica Bathory

I love it how you put the connection to self first, because that is the first step. It's very hard to solve an impasse if you are not connected to yourself first, because you will go in not knowing, not equipped, and you can't even deal with conflict or respond in the best way that you could. When you go into an impasse with someone else, whether it's your partner, your children, people at work, your boss, coworkers, whatever, your family of origin, there's a lot of impasse there. There's a part that you need to understand, which is your story. What are your triggering points? What is your baggage? What do you bring to the table to that impasse? Because what happens a lot of times Every time we have a conflict, we tend to think it's somebody else's fault. We do the outward, you know, it's you, you are the problem. If you would only change processions here, it's always my boss is just so difficult. I need to learn how to get along with my difficult boss, meaning they are the problem. As we go through it, it's about recognizing what do you bring to that dynamic? Because a relationship is between two people or group, but you still contribute to it equally as all the other members. So the question is, what am I bringing to this dynamic that is making it not run smooth? That's number one question. then is, well, what could I change? Because if you're 50% of the problem, you're 50% of the solution. So what is it that I can do that I can change that would change the whole dynamic? Right? Because think of it, 50% is you. Any little tweak you do, 50% of the dynamic changes. So that's the second thing is, you know, what, what can I do to contribute to this? But of course, there are difficult people, or there are people that they might not even be difficult, but we just don't jive. And I think it's okay, too. We have to address it, we have to understand that you know what, we won't get along with everyone, and accept that. And not as something to be solved, but as something to be accepted. And you meet the person where they're at, and you have the relationship that is possible. And I love this sentence because we there's actually towards the end of the book there's a manual and how to get along to specific relationships. And one of the things that I repeat over and over and over again is. Sometimes, especially to family of origin and towards our children, people that we don't choose, people at work, it's not about having this idolized relationship, you know, like we're going to be best friends or whatever, like my sister's my best friend. It's great to hear those stories. My mom and I get along and oh my gosh, she feels what I feel. Lovely. Good for you. But if that's not possible, why don't we have the best relationship possible instead of being forever frustrated of the relationship you desired and you will not have. That disconnect is where the suffering is. The minute you let go of the dream and you're like okay this is what we're at, this is what we can have, let's have the best whatever relationship we're able to have, then your outlook towards it is different, your expectations are different, and that's where all the suffering is, the expectations, the comparison. Then you become free to be friends or to relate to who really is there and not that fantasy person that you created.

Dr. Adrienne Youdim

Isn't it ironic that actually letting go of the dream allows you to get closer to it?

Patrica Bathory

Absolutely. Absolutely. I love that. I never thought of it that way. Letting go of the dream of the idealized relationship allows you to get closer to the idealized relationship, which is a better one than you actually have. I love it. I love it.

SPEAKER_00:

Very true. Quote it in your next book. I will.

Patrica Bathory

I'm recording this. It's a great insight because that's exactly what it is.

Dr. Adrienne Youdim

Can you walk us through some of the other steps? So awareness is a big part of the strategy in terms of enhancing connection with others. What are maybe a few other key steps that you can highlight?

Patrica Bathory

Awareness too. Yeah, awareness, I always say is the first one, and it's the best one. And it's the most important, because it is recognizing that you are part of the problem as well. And I think the minute you realize that and you incorporate it, then you're like, shoot, maybe there's something I need or should do. So it just opens your mind to even think in a different way. So that's number one. I think it's the core, the crucial necessity, for then you'd be able to do a few steps like the listening with curiosity, the judgment free. If you understand that you're not right, that there are different ways of thinking and doing things, if you have that awareness, then of course you can listen with curiosity and no judgment. Of course you can listen to learn, right? You can trade certainty for curiosity because all of a sudden it's like, well, maybe there's something I'm contributing to this. Maybe all these certainties that I have, right, are contributing to the conflict that I'm having. Understanding perspective, right? We've talked before, we're friends and I know your background, where you were born, how you were raised. I was born in Brazil, raised in Brazil. Do you seriously think we're going to agree on everything? You have different baggage than I do. We can be friends and meet each other and have aligning visions on a lot of things. But other things, if we have big conflicts, the first thing I'm going to go and think is, what is it about her story that makes her feel so passionately about this? What is it about her background or her values that make her feel like this relationship is worth fighting over or giving up? And then that all of a sudden unlocks a bunch of things in our head. So it is that ability to get outside of yourself and think how the other person is thinking. You know, walk a mile in their shoes, walk a mile in their eyes, try. And that is liberating. And I'll tell you, that work is what allowed like I'll tell you a trade secret that is I'd say almost 100% of the time, how I get adult children to understand and forgive their parents is by, did they do the best that they could? Because again, it's like, no, but they did this and they traumatized me. And you're like, yes. And They didn't have other resources and they knew no like they did not know better and et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. They had marks. They had their traumas. They had their issues, limitations, whatever. They gave you 100% of what they had. The only problem is they didn't have much. And I'm not talking things here.

Dr. Adrienne Youdim

I'm talking emotional support. Emotional support. Not right. So again, it comes back to you, it comes back to you, it comes back to you. It's always about you. But also, as you were talking, I imagine getting behind the words or getting behind the anger of the person on the other side, getting behind their reactivity and really understanding where their heart is, where they are as human beings. Sometimes when we're in that, contentious disagreement, the person becomes dehumanized, right? They just become the view and we forget the human behind the view. So I think that's a great reminder. As we're coming to the close of our conversation together, it's been such a quick ride. I want to speak to something that I know that a lot of people are feeling right now and actually a listener sent me an email this week that I've been thinking about how to address, which is this sense of despair about the disconnection and discord right now. We're in the middle of election season in the United States. It always gets hot and heavy around this time, but it feels particularly so. Then world events, of course, are top of mind for many people. I actually saw a video, I don't know where it was in South America, but a candidate went after another candidate with a metal chair.

SPEAKER_00:

It was here, right? Absolutely.

Patrica Bathory

Yeah. That's how we are. How are we dealing with it in Brazil? That's how we're dealing.

Dr. Adrienne Youdim

Yes, with metal chair or swinging metal chairs at each other. But you know what? When we see that, I mean, it's comic, but it's not. It adds to the sense of despair and this feeling like we're never going to get out of this. Can you speak to that despair? Can you shed some light or some hope to that sense of despair?

Patrica Bathory

I think it's a despair. I really see it as dysregulation. I do. I see it as dysregulation. I do couples therapy. Sometimes people say this and it's like, I do have a very I have a big tolerance for very, a very wide range of opinions and views. I have a very low tolerance for dysregulation because it is hard to do, but it is doable and only requires your commitment to it. So when somebody, you know, loses their cool or does something like that, here's a stool or, you know, I think It just goes to show how unprepared we are for what is different and how as a society, that's what we need to invest in, right? Because we invest in so many things. We invest in technology and all this and not saying that's not important, but there has to be this component of emotional intelligence and emotional regulation and being able to tolerate the other speaking ill of you. Right, because the candidates that you're referring to, it was them speaking about some process or whatever, whether it was a lie or not. sure it might have been a lie but I mean not every time somebody lies about me or calls me names it'll you know it's it's okay to dysregulate because you honored my what is it what you you hurt my honor you you can't be that there's some we need to be very intolerant with things like that and I think we need to start teaching this in school this emotional regulation this emotional intelligence uh this relation these relationship skills going back to the beginning of this interview where you're like, we're having a loneliness epidemic. Everything's so easy. Well, let's start in schools because that's where it's all coming in. These kids have spent endless hours on the phone. Let's get the kids to how do we talk to each other? How do you respect somebody else who thinks differently than you? How do we negotiate? I remember when I was doing my master's, my MBA, there was a class where we had negotiation skills. And I remember like at the time I was young, them saying, it doesn't matter what you want. The most important thing is to figure out what the other person wants. Right. So it's like, oh, it's not about me. It's about someone else. So these skills we're losing and we're not teaching. And I think if we invest in this education of everyone, we'll get away from the dysregulation of the adults, the despair of, oh, my God, we're just getting worse and worse and worse. I don't have the despair that you spoke about because I'm very I am I'm not I'm an optimist I'm hopeful I see how much people change when they do the hard work I see I've seen marriages reborn with a different mindset and it's like you can't unsee what you've seen you cannot work in a the way you used to once you kind of understand that self-awareness. It's a step forward that you never, you cannot become, you cannot become not self-aware once you are self-aware. It's like learning how to read, you know, once you look at the letters, they'll always make up words. It's a, it's a way of being. So I think that's what I would love to invest and teach everyone, kids from the beginning until the end, we can teach adults as well. But I think that would make our world a better place, maybe less polarized as well.

Dr. Adrienne Youdim

I mean, it almost sounds like what you're saying is kind of when we do that work on ourselves and for ourselves, it has a ripple effect, right? So if there are people feeling that despair and don't have maybe the feeling of hopefulness that you do, drawing from your reasons for that hope, is the knowing how quickly or how adaptable we are, right? That we can actually create change in ourselves and that that has an impact on the people in the world around us. And I love to end with that sentiment.

Patrica Bathory

And the sentiment of be the change you want to see in the world. So if the world, if there's that despair, start with you, which is really what you said. Start with you. If you can do that change and take that step, everything around you will improve.

Dr. Adrienne Youdim

Yeah, beautiful. Can you tell us where we can find your book and where we can learn more about you?

Patrica Bathory

So my book Connected, here it is, so proud of it, came out this year and it's available on Amazon and anywhere books are sold. I think it's on sale at Amplify, so amplify.com, it'll be on sale there. And find me on LinkedIn or patriciabathory.com.

SPEAKER_00:

Wonderful. Thanks so much for this conversation. I really enjoyed it. So did I. Thank you for having me on your show.