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232.The Courage to Begin Again: Finding Yourself Beyond Old Labels with Petra Kolber

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What if the key to living a life without regret isn't avoiding failure, but embracing the courage to try - especially when you're "too old" to start something new?

In our achievement-obsessed culture, we're conditioned to believe that transformation should happen seamlessly, that successful people have linear paths, and that reinvention gets harder with age. But what if everything we've been told about change, identity, and "appropriate" timing is keeping us trapped in lives that no longer fit?

In this deeply personal and universally inspiring episode of Health Bite, Dr. Adrienne Youdim sits down with keynote speaker, mindset coach, and author Petra Kolber to explore what it really takes to transform your life - not just once, but multiple times, and especially later in life.

Who is Petra Kolber?

  • Keynote speaker and mindset coach specializing in transformation and resilience
  • Author of "The Perfection Detox" - a guide to breaking free from perfectionist patterns
  • Former Reebok fitness athlete with over a decade representing the brand globally
  • At age 61, boldly pivoted to become a DJ - proving reinvention has no expiration date
  • Recovering perfectionist who has navigated multiple major life transitions

What You'll Discover in This Episode:

  • How perfectionism becomes a prison that keeps us from trying anything we might not excel at immediately
  • Why women especially struggle with owning their ambition and drive without apologizing
  • How our American obsession with work-based identity becomes a barrier to reinvention

Why This Episode Matters: 

Whether you're a high-achiever feeling stifled by your current success, someone navigating midlife transitions, or anyone who's ever thought "it's too late for me," this conversation offers permission to redefine what's possible at any age.

This episode will help you:

  • Distinguish between healthy ambition and perfectionist paralysis that prevents action
  • Understand why clinging too tightly to current identity blocks future growth
  • Learn to create runway for exploration rather than burning bridges impulsively
  • Navigate the spiritual and existential shifts that often accompany midlife

Connect with Petra Kolber:

Ways that Dr. Adrienne Youdim Can Support You

  • Join the Monthly Free Mind-Body Workshops: Participate in engaging mind-body practices designed to help manage your stress response. Register here.
  • Sign Up for the Newsletter: Stay updated with valuable insights and resources by subscribing to the newsletter. Sign up here.
  • Freebie alert. Register for our monthly free MindBody Workshop and receive a downloadable guide on emotional labeling to help you manage your emotions effectively.


Connect with Dr. Adrienne Youdim

Adrienne Youdim:

Welcome back friends. Welcome back to health by the podcast where we explore the essential nutrients To nourish you physically emotionally and professionally. I'm your host. Dr.Adrienne Youdim and today I am joined by a Friend and a powerhouse of a woman who is going to talk to us about the courage to transform Petra Kolber is a keynote speaker, a mindset coach, author of The Perfection Detox. And now she also carries the title of DJ. That's right. At the age of 61, Petra has pivoted to a new career. After decades in the wellness industry, she has done something truly bold. letting go of labels that have defined her to start something entirely new. Petra, welcome to the podcast. I'm so happy to have you.



Petra Kolber:

Thank you. I'm excited. I'm looking forward to this conversation, Adrienne.



Adrienne Youdim:

I am too. You know, we talk so much about reinvention and transformation, and these are words that we use kind of so frequently with so much glamour. But the truth is that so many of us get caught in this place, this space, in which a change or transformation is possible or we are being called for a transformation. And what we don't talk about in all that glamour is how flipping hard, how scary, right? It can be to really enter the space of unknown and to enter a transformation at any age, but particularly when you're somewhat older and you're established.



Petra Kolber:

Yeah, so I think what you said right there is so interesting. These words like transformation and change and we look at the social media and it all looks so glamorous and it feels like a transformation. We snap our fingers and woo, we have our new life and we've got our new mantras and we're ready to go. Where in reality, what we don't see is the years, months of indecision. Do I go? Do I try? Is it working? Is it not? Testing the waters. We celebrate the transformations that go the way we hoped. I don't know about you, but for me, there have been many moments I've tried something did not go as planned. Sometimes I edited it or changed it up a little bit and it worked great, not perfectly, but great. And sometimes me just trying something was dated to go, you know what, this sounded great on paper. I love the idea of it, but when I actually did the work, Because that's the bit we don't see. The hard work and the heart work. When I actually did the work, you know what, this is not as fun as I thought it was. And so for me at this point in my life, some of the changes, right, some were due to situational, a breakup of what I thought was my forever relationship. He obviously did not have the same idea. So that was situational. I was thrown into, at 50, okay, I thought I was in this forever relationship. I had my life mapped out as a bonus mom, as a partner, in this beautiful house, in the burbs. And all of a sudden, that idea of my future was literally stripped away from me. So that change was not one I would, at the time, let me correct myself, at the time is not one I would have chosen. Now, this sounds really cliche, but it is so, so deeply true. So if any of you are listening right now, going through something like that, first of all, my heart goes out to you. And you're not going to believe this when I say it, it was the best thing that ever happened to me. Because at the time you just go, I just, I couldn't see my life without that. So that was my biggest shift, I would say, recently. I mean, it was a decade ago now plus, and I'm so on the other side of it. But at that moment in time, I found myself again, single. I had given up my career. So my big choice at that moment, Adrienne, was career-wise. So the choice and the pivot came from situational and financial. because when I had met this person, I was at the height of my fitness career making really, really good money. And then the last year when I was, I had basically given up my career to be the perfect bonus step-mom, you know, I'm a recovering perfectionist, so got to be there on the weekends. And my entire career happened on the weekends. I had given up everything. So when I look at my paycheck, I look at my bank account of where it was and now where it is. That was one reason I had to pivot. And then the other one was situational. And at that moment in time, my biggest choice was,Adrienne, do I go back into the world that I had felt very safe in for 20 plus years? I was known as a fitness expert around the world. And I also had been off that wheel for five years. Do I go back to what I knew or do I try something new? And at that moment, I was moving into my 50s, and I'm like, I don't know if I want to be struggling to be in spandex anymore and sweating for a living. And so at that moment, I made a big pivot. So that was situational. We then had COVID. That was both situational and out of curiosity. New York had shut down. I was paying ridiculous rent, and all the things I loved about New York were closed. I thought, situational, and then out of curiosity, what would happen if I sold everything and went to Europe? Did that. And now we come back and, you know, there's all these different reasons. So it's sometimes financial, situational, and then sometimes out of curiosity. But my big driver behind all of these, when we feel afraid, do I do this thing or not? Especially if you have a calling, especially if it's out of curiosity, something that, that dream that's been on your shoulders and you're like, oh, I'll get to it when I have time. And guess what? We never have time. At the end of my life, when I look back, Would I say to myself, I wish I had tried that thing or I wish I had gone for that thing, regardless of whether it worked out perfectly, that's irrelevant, but did I try? And that's my driver at 61 being a DJ and moving from being a keynote into also an MC and still got a lot of curiosity about going back to Europe and living. It's this idea of at the end of my life, Would I have more regrets that I didn't? And we say this a lot. You don't ever regret the things that you tried. But that deep regret of at the end of my life. Do I wish I had tried that? And one of the top five regrets of people as they die is I wish I had lived a life true to my dreams versus a life that others had expected of me.



Adrienne Youdim:

Yeah, wow. I mean, there's so much there to double down on and to unpack. One point that you made early on that I feel compelled to reiterate is the one that we have many failed attempts or attempts that don't go right or paths or processes that don't turn out the way we want them to. Again, it feels like, of course, that's the case. You know, when I say it out loud, I think to myself, well, there's nothing novel in that. Everyone knows that. But the reality is that we don't live with that knowing, right? We live with the expectation of ourselves that whatever plan we set forth early on, whatever passion we had when we were young, that not only will we stick with that passion when we're four or five decades later, but also that everything is just going to fall in place, right? Like if we work hard enough, if we do it, whatever, if we're smart enough, if we're resilient enough, if we're resourceful enough. And the reality is that sometimes things just don't go the way, sometimes things just are not successful. and I wish it we could not just say this but actually normalize it actually expect it so that when we do get thrown off we can just deal with the fact that we've been thrown off, right? Deal with the grief of being thrown off, deal with the reinvention of being thrown off, as opposed to this unmet expectation that was not the right expectation to begin with.



Petra Kolber:

Such an interesting point. I think this idea of failure, what does it mean to fail anyway? I mean, who's telling us what failure means and what it isn't? To me, the only failure these days, I really believe this. And for many years, I lived in this idea of perfection. So let me tell you, I was failing in my own mind and my own expectations. every minute and beating myself up. And thank goodness I'm on the other side of that, because that's exhausting and an irrational and unattainable way to live. But now my idea of failure, it comes to the idea of not trying because this idea that it might not work out perfectly, or the other fear that I see a lot in successful women is like, what if they judge me? for trying something new or going the road less traveled or creating my new path. And you had mentioned before this idea of like, I just, you know, we know there's a deep knowing in us that, you know, failure for whatever word you or label or idea you put around this idea of failure, our heart might know that, but our brain still sees it as a threat. And our brain is the oldest part of our working mechanism, and anything it construes as a threat, if we don't take the time to analyze the thought under the feeling, obviously, we're going to pull away from that. Because if I'm trying something new, this idea of uncertainty, which in reality, that any of us, when we actually sit down and think about it, the only constant is change. We think we have this false narrative that tomorrow, if I do the right thing, I'm the good girl, I say the right things, I get the right grades, I do the right things, it's gonna work out okay. The one part of that equation we forget to put into it is this thing called life. I think it was John Lennon said, life is what happens to us when we're busy making plans. You can have all the best laid plans. You can show up for those plans and ace them. And then there's this outlier called life. timing, situations, other people involved in what it is. Unless you're working in a silo, there's going to be other people in this equation too. And I think we don't allow this dialogue with, we have these plans and we want to go for our hopes, we want to go for our dreams. And then sometimes life has a different timing to what we have. And it's not say that you don't want to plan for the future, but it's not a place to live.



Adrienne Youdim:

Yeah, it's like holding it, holding it lightly, right? Like the ability to, to do all the things and hold it lightly. And, you know, the other thing that comes to mind, um, when you speak, you know, this is something that I've really embraced as of late. Um, and that is kind of the. The fact that we don't live in silos, the fact that we are connected to other people and other things, and that perhaps there is this, you know, higher intelligence. It's like, I'm reluctant to say that as a very Western trained doctor-y doctor, but the reality is that I do have the sense that there is this like force or energy or something that is beyond my precious little head. And you know, I think back to when I was younger, when I thought Really, I was the only master of my own domain, you know, that sense of agency, something that I still hold very dear because agency is a psychological need that is important, right, to our physical health, to our emotional health. But I also think, wow, so much almost arrogance, right? To think that I know everything, that everything there is to be known is what's like concrete and tangible and visible. And, you know, how much more to use your word curiosity or even possibility or just like less stress and strain we can hold in living our lives, in pursuing our dreams, if we just allow that air of surrender, right? That air of like, okay, I can try my darned best, but there's a part of me that understands that I, Adrienne, do not navigate the universe. And that's actually pretty freeing.



Petra Kolber:

Oh, I love what you said. It's this idea of gripping too tightly to what we think we want. And then, you know, there's that idea of you have to let go of everything you thought you wanted to allow the things that were meant for you to step in. And I was reading this book recently by Oliver Berkman about time management for mortals. And I loved his perspective on time. We think we have time. We use time. We save time. We're going to use our time wisely. But he said, what about if we are living time? Like you said, we're living, we're breathing, and when we can allow a little bit more flexibility, a little bit more adaptability. And this is all part of a resilient mindset. And the world is changing faster every day. I can barely keep up with it. But what can we do with the time that we have in this moment to bring more curiosity versus control, to bring more a sense of possibility than I need to know what's going to happen tomorrow, I'm going to plan for it. And if it doesn't go right to plan when we get thrown off, instead of riding with it and going, oh, what's the best thing that could happen from this new situation? We automatically, most of us go into that default, like what's the worst thing, what's the worst thing that's going to happen if this doesn't go out perfectly? But what if something better could step into its place? This idea of serendipity. And like you, I mean, I love you say you're a doctor-y doctor. You know, you have all the credentials, all of the, there's the science, and then there's the knowing. And it's when we can live into our knowing, easy to say what I'm chatting to you right now, and I'm inspired. But when we turn or when your listener turns off the podcast, how can you breathe into the knowing? that you will take care of yourself, that you will bet on yourself, that you will show up for yourself. And as long as you do those three things with kindness to yourself and to others, it's going to be okay. It might not be what you had planned, but it's going to be okay.



Adrienne Youdim:

Yeah. I really like that knowing that it's going to be okay. I know a long while ago I was seeing a therapist to manage my intense mommy guilt. You know, having had my started a family while I was a resident, I was working a hundred hour weeks on call in the hospital. My husband, uh, who I'm with, whom I'm celebrating my 25th anniversary today. That is just beautiful. Thank you. He was also a resident. And so, you know, we, we, we had challenges when our children were young. Anyway, something she told me that has landed and stayed with me, you know, decades later, is that if you could just hold that knowing for your children, that everything is going to be okay. You know, even in their times of distress, if you can just hold that knowing that everything is going to be okay. You don't need to verbalize it. You don't need to act upon it. But just holding that with confidence, with certainty, gives off, now whether you want to call it an energy, or even an air with which you parent, or to our point, the air with which you work and live. coming from a place of not necessarily certainty of the outcome, but certainty in the okayness of whatever the outcome is, going about our day-to-day affairs without that fear and anxiety, with that air of confidence and certainty in an outcome that will be okay, I have found that when I can act from that place, stuff just happens. I mean, really, stuff, like, it's crazy. Stuff just happens. And then there are times where I'm working my tail off. You know, I've got such an intense desire to make something happen. I'm grinding. I'm, you know, doing all the things. And And there's such a level of frustration because it's like, damn, what else am I supposed to do to make this happen, right? And it's not a pleasant place to work from. So also to your point, like living the time, going after our goals in a way that feels good, that still allows us to live with joy and vitality as opposed to angst. that's just a better way to live, which translates, by the way, to our physical health, you know, which is all the things that I do as a physician.



Petra Kolber:

I mean, it comes down to stress, right? There's good stress and there's not good stress. And for me, much of the stress is what is the thought that's kicking us into this idea of where our adrenaline comes up, our cortisol, all of that stuff. And that happens whether we're excited or we're anxious. And it's this idea that our body can't always tell the difference between that anxiety of a situation and the excitement of it. And to your point, I think it keeps coming down to this word control. Like for someone who is As a child, I thought the way for me to predict the outcome was to try and control everything around me. My dad was a big drinker, and so I thought if I could be the perfect kid and control our family and make everybody happy, then the outcome would be okay. And to this day, I think as women especially, We are caregivers, yes. And we want the best for everybody else, yes. And the thing I think if we can hold on to, like you said, the knowing that we will show up the best that we can today. We do the best that we can with the tools that we have in this moment. And today's might be a better day than yesterday and not as good as tomorrow. But let, and I don't know how we actually do this, but let go of the, of the actions that we are making, doing them for the action itself, and maybe the drive and the ambition, I have no problem with those two words, I'm very driven, I'm very ambitious, but letting go of the trying to control the outcome. because that is the part we cannot control. And I remember listening to Rick Rubin, a really smart genius in the music industry. And this really helped me because I, as you mentioned before, I pivoted to so many new things. I'm sure there's going to be something else I do because I'm a very curious by nature. I think I'm going to stick with the DJing for a while because I got a lot to learn. But When I can let go of the outcome and do the process itself for the process sake, for bringing more joy, bringing more light into the world. And he said, it's our job as a creative, which everybody is, we're all creative in our own way, whether that's creating a beautiful family at home or creating something at work or creating more joy in the world, we're all creatives. It's your job to create work that is meaningful to you and hopefully as a bonus can help others along the way. Once you've then released this work out into the world, You got to let go. It is not your job to decide if it's going to be a success or a failure because that's out of our control. How people receive our offering, how the world receives our offering is out of our control. And when we make the mistake of thinking that we can control that piece, that is when we never get started. Because we're waiting for the world to signal to Petra orAdrienne or whoever you are listening, if you're waiting for a signal from the world to say, if you try this, we are going to welcome you with open arms, you will never get started. But if you can, my curiosity is leading me over here. I want to explore this for a while. and you keep going and then you, whatever it might be, a book, it could be a podcast, it could be a new keynote, it could be asking someone out on a date, it could be planting a vegetable garden, and you do it for the sake of the art or the action and let go of the outcome, it gives you so much freedom. And then you get to say at the end of your life, I gave that a shot. That's our only job. I'm not there at the end of my life going, I gave it a shot and it didn't work out. Because it's not, again, this is very cliche, but it is so true. It's not whether it worked out or it didn't work out, or whether they said yes to the date or no to the date, or whether your book was a bestseller or it sold one copy. It's who you became as a human along the way. And that is the art of living time, breathing time. Yeah.



Adrienne Youdim:

Earlier, you mentioned caretaking, you know, women caretakers, and it made me think about identity, right? Our job title, our persona, our expertise, even the characteristics, right? Like we're we're kind and compassionate or we're, you know, we don't want to be seen as competitive or driven. I think for women, it's nice to say, you know, I have no problem with these words. You said earlier, ambition and driven. But it's interesting that we still have to say that we don't have a problem with it, which assumes or acknowledges the fact that many people do have a problem with seeing women in particular, as driven or ambitious, as if that negates their kindness or their compassion. But anyway, that's kind of an aside. If we go back to this concept of identity and labels that we put on ourselves, that other people put on us, Often that gets in the way of leaning into a pivot or a transformation. Is that something that you had to explore on any level, peeling back identities or self-imposed labels or? Yeah.



Petra Kolber:

Yes, yes and yes. But I want to go back a little bit and I'll totally answer your question,Adrienne. That was so insightful of you. I didn't even notice that I did that. And if I think about it now, I always do that. I always say I have no ambition. I have no worry. I have no problem with the words ambition or drive. That was really, I'm like, oh, that's an aha moment for me. I need to go and explore that. But it is true, right? That's part of my identity too. I have ambition and drive and I'm a nice person and I'll never, I'll never, this is true, I will never, my ambition and drive or my success would never come at the expense of somebody else. Regardless, male or female, I hope that is the case. But identity, oh my goodness, yes. And it's so interesting. I think this is a very American thing, much more so than in Europe. We are so tied up in our identity. It is obviously often a cocktail conversation starter. What's your name? First question, what do you do? In Europe, it's like, what are you interested in? What's your family? How many kids do you have? We attach who we are and what we do so tightly together. It is really hard for people to even unravel that. Like, who is Petra without her work, without being a sister, without being... It's interesting. I've gone through this process over and over and over again. There have been moments in my time in my life, I'm very, very wrapped up in my identity without even recognizing it. And I think I've eased up much more over these past 10 years, I think because I've been so fluid in what I'm doing. Like every time someone asks me, what do you do? I'm giving them a different answer. But I know at the height of my fitness career, I was so tied up, not in just the identity of how others saw me, but even to more to my detriment, the identity that I thought I needed to have to be this person in the public eye. I was very lucky to work with Reebok for over 10 years, over a decade, where I was one of their fitness athletes. I wasn't, I couldn't run for the, so this was a fitness athlete when aerobics, some of you will be too young to know that word, when aerobics was in its heyday, and there was about There's actually only two of us that were really positioned at the front of this brand in terms of trying to sell sneakers and clothing through fitness programming, VHS tapes. Yes, I said VHS. We did television shows. I was on the back of a special K-Box. I was voted in the New York Times as one of the most likely to succeed of the up-and-coming faces. So I was the golden child.



Adrienne Youdim:

I did not work out with you, I'm thinking, because I had How many... I need to go back. I can't even view the VHS tapes, right? How do I even go back and view them? But I think of... You know, I started with Richard Simmons videos. Oh, so if you knew Richard Simmons, you might have a couple of mine.



Petra Kolber:

Yeah.



Adrienne Youdim:

I, um, I like, I, I kind of am at the, at that, um, threshold for that age, but I always joke that my inner child is probably like 20, 30 years older than I am. So, um, anyway, we digress. So, so you really built. That identity and your success built that identity of this fitness woman, this right personality that was now global.



Petra Kolber:

And that's not the problem. That wasn't the challenge. The identity of, like, someone said to me, what did you do? I'd say, oh, I'm a Reebok athlete. I represent fitness. Easy. But the identity I attached to that,Adrienne, was I needed to be the perfect fitness athlete to be deemed in this high esteem by everybody else. And the one thing I didn't have, I'm actually writing a keynote right now about the imposter syndrome. And I'm starting with the story. The one thing I didn't have that I thought I needed for my identity to actually fit into the identity that I thought I needed to be was initials after my name. I didn't have the PhD. I didn't have the masters in kinesiology. So who was I? So the identity from the outside and my inner identity were in conflict. And that's when we can get into real trouble when who we think we should be and who we think we are, that gap between who we are and who we think the other people think we should be, that's when we can really run into a slippery slope. So I don't think there's anything wrong at having an identity. We all need this sense, like you said before, agency, autonomy over who I am and what I want to do. But it's when that is in conflict with who we really believe we are, like our secret inner world is not matching our outer identity. If we don't look at that through the lens of curiosity and compassion, we can really trip ourselves up.



Adrienne Youdim:

Or the fact that it's fluid, right? These things shift. as we get older and as we experience. And I think a lot of times we don't allow ourselves that shift in identity. I mean, I'm just thinking to myself, I think, you know, I think I experienced quote, like midlife, like it started young for me, you know, my late thirties, I was, probably the youngest female medical director at Cedars-Sinai. I had a great title. I was head of a program that I had helped co-create. And I started having this itch that there were bigger things for me. I felt, what's the word? I'm losing my word. But I felt basically stifled in that position. Even though the title sounded grand, The actual ability for me to do grand things no longer existed in that title. But I really had a tough time. It took me two and a half years of contemplating back and forth. And I think at the core of it, it was like, do I really want to give up this title? Do I really want to give up this identity, this persona I had created? I very much reveled in the fact that I was the youngest female director, that I had gotten myself to that position. And then now, you know, before I even turned 40, I'm going to give that up. But ultimately, permission to shift, permission for those titles or those identities to no longer matter the way they did, is a critical part of allowing us to have that natural evolution. I mean, we were created to evolve, to shift. And when we cling to these identities, stifling our own progress and success over the long term.



Petra Kolber:

Agreed. And from the outside looking in, here's the other thing too, as we said, life is not in a silo. I would imagine that when you were thinking about this, contemplating, and there's nothing wrong in percolating and thinking about these kinds of shifts for years. It's not an overnight thing. You don't have this itch and go, okay, I'm going to leave this and go for that. Because I hear that a lot. People say, burn the bridges, burn the boats. I'm like, Oh, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. Create a runway. Keep doing what you're doing. You might have to make more room. You might have to get up earlier. You might have to stay later. But create some space for you to keep doing what you're known for, that's often bringing in the income, and then explore the itch on this side. Do some data. Do some research. Do some testing. A, number one, see if this exploration is actually bringing you the joy that you thought. But then also in that people around you, especially if you're as successful as you are, they probably can't even wrap their heads around it.



Adrienne Youdim:

I was a psycho.



Petra Kolber:

I was crazy. Yeah. And they've got all that external pressure. And if you don't, it's coming back to that deep knowing, if you don't trust yourself enough, Going back to, I wish I had lived a life true to my dreams versus a life that others had expected of me. And a wise therapist, I also have been in therapy many times, had said to me, it's not our job to manage other people's expectations. And I know so many women, especially, who are married and, you know, empty nesters now, they want to, they're very happy in their marriage, but they also want to explore a new aspect of their life. And I encourage most of them to have a good conversation with their partner. But we can be really. when we listen to other people's expectations, especially people we care about, we can make choices not based on our dreams or our own desires. And I see more people doing that because it's a little safer. Then you're not disrupting the boat. We're people pleasers. But what are you giving up in return? So I think the idea, like the success that you had and have, How can we explore all of that? It doesn't have to be, I gave up my job and now I'm doing this. Or whatever my identity currently is, this is my identity. And I know there's another piece of me. Because it's not that we're this or that. It's just that we're bringing different parts of ourselves forward. You are the same person that you were. We all are the same person. but that we're gonna highlight different parts of ourselves. Sometimes it's gonna be the mothering aspect. Sometimes it's gonna be the curiosity. Sometimes it's gonna be the artist. What needs to be brought forth of you? What part of you needs to be explored in this next part of your life? And be really, keep asking yourself, whose voice am I listening to? Is it my inner calling? This idea of energy, I believe there's something, there's an energy throwing, and I often say to people, What if this dream, this itch actually isn't yours, but it was given to you and you're the only person that can put this thing out into the world and create a better world because of it. And then we don't decide to do it because of what other people may think or we're letting other people's expectations down or we're ruffling feathers a little bit. And oftentimes, the only reason people are like saying, don't make that change, don't do that thing, because my bet is they also have an inner calling. And if you go for your dreams and they don't go for theirs, then what? It's never about us. It's always about their inner dialogue. And how do we changing affect how they see themselves in the world? It's really about us.



Adrienne Youdim:

You know, we've kind of been dancing around the topic of age and midlife, and I want to make sure we get to it before we close. You know, I see a lot of patients come into the office because of weight gain during menopause. And while there is a physiologic component to that time in life, that age, to menopause, and by the way, men have a similar shift that occurs in midlife, even physiologic shift, hormonal shift that occurs in their bodies midlife. So this is not exclusive to women. But I also feel, like there is a spiritual shift that happens during menopause or during midlife. I talk about it in my book, Hungry for More. There's a certain kind of hunger that develops. And I think it is surrounding some of the concepts we've discussed, which is, yes, our bodies are changing, but also our households are changing. People are empty nesting if they were parents, right? That will invariably cause shifts in the dynamics between an individual and their partner, for example, so so relationships are shifting. And all of that, right, all of that transition and shift often then puts us in a place where we start to, I don't wanna call it an existential crisis, I wanna call it almost an existential opportunity. You start to question everything, like is my work bringing meaning? Is my life purposeful? So, All of that. But my question, I guess, is that, um, do you, did you experience this kind of midlife reckoning? And do you feel like age played a part or did not? And also I'm really fascinated by the fact that in your sixties, you're pivoting into a career that is like notoriously known for people in their twenties.



Petra Kolber:

Yeah, so I think I've always seen myself as a bit of an outlier. If you say you shouldn't be doing this, I'm like, watch me. I love to be a disruptor, not for disruption's sake, but I like to challenge this idea of age and I still struggle with it. daily. I think it was actually last year, maybe when I turned 60, this is not to be morose, I couldn't stop thinking about dying. I was clinging to this idea of, I'm just getting started, but time is a ticking. And it's that old thing of, oh, if I only knew then what I know now, if I only knew in my 20s what I know now. And so it's this idea of wisdom, and yet time is going faster and faster and faster. So have I had a midlife crisis? I think, yeah, I had one in my early 50s. That was existential. I was going through menopause at the time. There was a massive breakup. It was all sorts of things. and you know with our hormone shifts and the interesting thing for me when I went through menopause is I had suffered from panic attacks for seven years when I was trying to deal with being perfect and yada, yada, yada. But the symptoms of menopause mirrored exactly the symptoms of a panic attack. So I can see why so many women during menopause go on antidepressants. They start drinking a little bit more, all this stuff, because it was exactly the same feeling. But luckily I had the awareness to go, That's not my mental state right now, this is a physiological state. I'm great now on the other side of everything. But yeah, I think right now where I sit, I'm feeling really good about being 61, exploring new things, opportunities are opening up for me. But ask me again in two months, it could be completely different story. So I just like go with each day, each moment. I think the thing that shifted for me, Adrienne, is honestly reading this book about time management for mortals. It's really resonated with me, this idea of, I think what I was clinging to last year when I turned 60, time is running out. Who says, I don't know how much time I have, but this idea of clinging to time is an illusion and it's wasting time. But sitting with, I don't have to cram every single part of my day with being so efficient, becoming the best DJ in the world at 61 at her age, you know, whatever, becoming, I've got time. So I think I've allowed myself a little bit more breathing room. And with that, the anxieties kind of tap down. And I actually find myself doing more actions that are creating a future I'm excited about versus spending so much time literally worrying about how much time I have.



Adrienne Youdim:

So ridiculous. It's so human. Right. And I do want to just take a moment to highlight that while we're talking about you being on the other end of it or being at the precipice of something transformative and new, there were years of panic attacks. There was years of perfectionism, which you detail in your book. And even I think on the other side, we question, right? So I can speak personally, having left the job, for example, you know, having left my position, and my title, and then, you know, having the freedom to practice medicine the way I like, to do creative pursuits, engage in creative pursuits, like all of that is wonderful. And yet, literally two days ago, I was talking to one of my colleagues, Miguel, a dear friend of mine, and I was sharing with him, you know, he's still at Cedars and, you know, we question we have nostalgia we're remorseful right and so i think it's acknowledging that it's never that all of these different feelings and experiences can exist at once we don't have to put too much weight on it we don't have to you know, make a fuss over it or make it define any of the rightness or the wrongness of the decision making. But just to acknowledge that even when the perfect circumstances evolve on the other side, that there can be difficult feelings that challenge us. And I just, I'm really careful about putting that out there because I think a lot of times in the conversations and even in my own journey, it's like, oh, it's your 25th year anniversary. You have three kids. And yes, all of those things are true. And yet, all of the messy human experiences are true as well. Now that we are really coming to the end of our conversation, this has been so lovely and vulnerable and beautiful and inspiring, Petra, so thank you. I wonder if you had the opportunity to go back and share a whisper with your younger self, a reflection, what would that reflection be?



Petra Kolber:

Oh, I think there'd be two. Number one would be you don't have to be perfect to be worthy. And number two, I'd whisper is going to be better than you could possibly imagine.



Adrienne Youdim:

I love that. Oh, give me chills. I love it. Well, thank you, Petra, again. Your story, your experiences, your journey is really a powerful reminder of what it means to be a living human, the power of change, of detour, of transformation, and how as cliche as it sounds, it is the path that makes the life worth living. So thank you. And to our listeners, if you are in this place of transition or possibility, wondering if it's too late or too anything, I hope this conversation taught you that the answer is no. So I hope this gives you inspiration for thought. And I'd be curious to know if it does. Get back to us and write us a note. We look forward to seeing you here again next time on Health Bite.





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Adrienne Youdim MD

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