The Scotchy Bourbon Boys
The Scotchy Bourbon Boys love Whiskey and every thing about the industry! Martin "Super Nash", Jeff "Tiny", Rachel "Roxy" Karl "Whisky" and Chris "CT" all make up The Scotchy Bourbon Boys! Join us in talking everything and anything Whiskey, with the innovators, and distillers around the globe. Go behind the scenes of making great whiskey and learn how some of the best in the whiskey industry make their product! Remember good whiskey means great friends and good times! Go out and Live Your Life Dangerously!
The Scotchy Bourbon Boys
The Art of Blending: Mark Carter's Bourbon Journey
Mark Carter joins us to share his remarkable journey from builder to whiskey maker and the philosophy behind Old Carter's exceptional barrel-proof expressions.
• Building a hotel and restaurant led to wine making in Napa Valley
• Partnered with Dixon Dedman to revive Kentucky Owl in 2011
• Founded Old Carter immediately after selling Kentucky Owl in 2017
• Never releases whiskey younger than 7 years old with most current products 10+ years
• Meticulously tastes and grades each barrel before creating small batch blends
• Uses multiple coopers for different flavor profiles
• The Carter Club is expanding with 400 additional lockers
• American Whiskey Batch 14 contains approximately 50% whiskey aged 19-20 years
• Balance is key to creating high-proof whiskeys that don't drink "hot"
• Describes Old Carter's signature profile as having "deep, rich aromatics" with "a long finish"
• Double barreling techniques create unique flavors in their expressions
Mark Carter's path to becoming one of Kentucky's most respected whiskey makers began far from the bourbon trail. A builder by trade who constructed a hotel, then managed its restaurant, Carter's curiosity about wine led him to purchase a Napa Valley winery in 2006. When seeking custom crush clients, he connected with Kentucky innkeeper Dixon Dedman, and instead of making wine together, suggested reviving Dedman's family whiskey heritage. This collaboration birthed Kentucky Owl in 2011, which they later sold to Stoli Group in 2017—the very same day Mark launched Old Carter Whiskey.
What makes Old Carter stand out in today's crowded whiskey landscape is Mark's unwavering commitment to quality. Nothing younger than seven years reaches the bottle, with most current releases featuring whiskey aged 10+ years. The blending process reveals Carter's artistry—tasting through dozens of barrels, grading each one, then carefully combining them to achieve perfect harmony. As he describes it, "We don't like hot. We want balanced. We love flavor." This philosophy explains how Old Carter creates high-proof expressions (often above 130 proof) that drink with remarkable smoothness.
The American Whiskey Batch 14 showcased during our conversation exemplifies this approach, containing approximately 50% whiskey aged 19-20 years. Despite its 134.3 proof, it delivers sweet notes of marshmallow and crème brûlée with a warming—never burning—finish. This meticulous attention extends to their barrel program, where Mark works with multiple coopers to achieve different flavor profiles, drawing parallels to his wine-making background.
Old Carter continues to expand, with their Carter Club adding 400 new lockers and several small batch releases planned for different distributors. Mark's passion for whiskey craftsmanship shines through in every expression, creating products that whiskey enthusiasts treasure. Experience what happens when patience, expertise, and unwavering standards come together in a glass—try Old Carter and taste the difference true dedication makes.
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Speaker 2:Scotch and Baron boys Raising some hell and making some noise. Yeah, we're the Scotch and Baron boys. We're here to have fun and open the door. We're here to have fun, yeah.
Speaker 1:All right, welcome back to another podcast of the Scotchy Bourbon Boys. All right, I stopped the sharing but let's get. I got to get out of this screen. That was I. Normally do that better there we go.
Speaker 1:All right. So let's go over here and hit zoom. Did that do it? Nope, somehow I got to get back to my zoom screen. Let's see there, there, oh, we're little. That's funny. Oh wow, technical difficulties right over it. Okay, come on. Now it's completely gone. All right, let's try this one more time Zoom. So I must have dumped you over there. All right, there we go. Got that working now.
Speaker 2:There you are.
Speaker 1:So, after the technical difficulties right off the bat, I don't know, let's see. All right, let's reload this. I'm going to reload the Facebook because it looks like that paused. Yep, there we go. We're working, working again. So we have Mark Carter joining us today, and I'm Tiny from the Scotchy Bourbon Boys and Mark welcome to the podcast. That's sometimes, this is what happens to us, and I'm Tiny from the Scotchy Bourbon Boys and Mark welcome to the podcast. So there we go, All right.
Speaker 1:Sorry about that. Good Okay, so say hi to everybody, mark. Oh, you know, tiny.
Speaker 3:I know you as Jeff, that's fine. Most people know you as Tiny. It's great to be here and everybody else out there that's watching welcome, and we're going to be tasting a little bit of old Carter. I guess tonight is what Jeff said.
Speaker 1:Yes, yes for sure, and look forward to that immensely. Yes, for sure, and look forward to that immensely. You know one of the things you know we've talked a couple of times in the past. We've been at the old Carter Social Club with you and then been at a bunch of different places with you and Christy. That initially, I can tell you that when I knew Christy for a while she's fantastic and when I found out at Kentucky Bourbon Festival a couple of years ago that you, that she was a part of what you know of old Carter to to some extent, and I was super, super excited because old Carter had already been established as probably one of my favorite bourbons that I had ever tried.
Speaker 1:So you know, then, to now get to know you a little bit and spend time and know what kind of a person you are, one of the things that you know I'd like you to do is just tell everybody how you got into this. You know, because it's a fascinating story. Me and you have talked about it a couple of times, but it's not just always been there, but just you know what. You know what led to what. Well, you know a lot of people have heard the story before, I'm sure.
Speaker 3:Well, you know a lot of people have heard the story before, I'm sure, but I'm very fortunate and a lot of people have helped me along the way. But I was a builder and I built a big house and that's kind of crazy and turned it into an inn. I kind of took off and I built a hotel and started buying wine for the restaurant that we started in the hotel and I got involved with wine to the point that it was time for me to make some wine. So I started making wine in 98 and finally bought a winery down in Napa Valley in 06. In 06, we were not making a lot of money at the winery. We had quite a bit of overhead. In 2006, we were not making a lot of money at the winery, we had quite a bit of overhead and so we were looking for Custom Crush clients to fill up our capacity there on Tubbs Lane in Calistoga and I talked to all my friends that were innkeepers and said well, you know I can make wine for you because I have lots of capacity a little red wine, white wine and only one person out of the 400 inns in America that I was associated with wanted to actually make some wine. And I was here in Kentucky and his name was Dixon Dedman and I'll never forget and said Dixon, you know I'll do anything for your family, we'll make some wine for you, but I don't think that's what we should be doing. We should probably bring back your whiskey brand. Your dad told me you used to make whiskey and so I said you know, why don't we do that instead? And, dixon, he said we can do that. And I said, dixon, we can do anything we set our minds to, and so I got a little money and I got a talented staff around me and we can make this happen. So we started that Kentucky Owl back in 2000 and the idea was in 11, bought our barrels in 12, released our first bourbon in 2014 and that kind of took off. And, um, we were fortunate enough and uh the uh. I loved the business and didn't want to really sell, but it was good for dixon. We sold the business and we started old carter. The next day and that was in 2017 we got money from Stoli, bought the brand and we started actually buying barrels in 17 and distilling in 17 and we made our first product and we turned it out in 2018, and so old Carter was, you know, was born and, and so been working at it ever since.
Speaker 1:So it's kind of like then you've been working at it and one of the things that you don't do is you basically make sure that the whiskey that you put out is aged enough, that the whiskey that you put out is aged enough. So, although you don't put out an age statement on your bourbons and your whiskeys the lowest it is is seven years, correct?
Speaker 3:It's correct. We've never done anything, less than seven years. And as far as I know, I don't think we've done anything because it's all barrel proof too that we have never done anything underneath 104 proof.
Speaker 1:So yeah. So now you've got nothing, you know nothing. It's all older than seven years and it's barrel proof. So you're dealing in a high-end market now, just because you haven't put something out that's younger than seven years doesn't mean that you're not putting stuff older than seven years either, correct?
Speaker 3:That's correct. We've got stuff that was 27 years old, single barrels that were 27. We got 16 year old. Most of the single barrels that have age statements, you know are for the club at this point because you know there's just not enough of those to go around. So it was only, you know, dedicated to the club at this point. Most of the product I have right now is 10 years or older these days and even the distillate we made over at Castle Key is now eight years old and we have never used that yet. So we'll keep aging the product. But really a good sweet spot for us, I think. You know, as I'm blending I love 7 to 9 for a base product, but you know I love to throw in some nice older barrels too.
Speaker 1:So, okay, walk me through this because this is an education for me. I understand the blend. So if you're throwing in 11 and 12, how do you determine? So are you emptying those barrels into like a stainless steel tub or what you know to stop the aging and then using a part of it for this batch and then a part of it for the next batch, or do you use the whole barrel?
Speaker 3:Use the whole barrel. You know we taste through. I have 88 barrels sitting on a table in my lab right now and I had tasted through every one of those and I have graded those and I have tasting notes on all of those, graded those and I have tasting notes on all of those and even those that. These are the very small batches that I'm working on right now for each one of the distributors and they are 11 years. Most of those are 11 years old and some of those have two to three year been sitting in. Actual, the double barreling that we do, which is maybe a good portion of that, is double barreled so you're proportionately blending, so you have.
Speaker 1:So you're, you have to proportionately blend so that it equals up to a barrel, correct I mean? So you're at a proportion of one, just two bottles of samples equals two barrels. I mean, how does that exactly?
Speaker 3:I'll give you. You know, I know how much is in a barrel. We weigh barrels, we know how much is in each barrel, how much liquid is in there by taking out the barrel weight. And you know it may be if it's 10 years old. We're lucky if we really have half of the barrel left. You know, because we lose 5% a year, mostly on an average. So if you started, you know 53 gallons, you have 27 roughly. You know 53 gallons, you have 27, roughly gallons.
Speaker 3:And so I'm blending with the right percentages of each barrel. So I know what they're tasting like. But I can pick the best. You know, if I'm doing a five-barrel blend, which is what most of these are right now, I'll put together five barrels and maybe not all of them, even though they're the greatest of my entire lineup, my favorite barrels, I put them together. They may not actually work, and then I'm pulling things out, tasting things and putting things in until I'm happy with the blend that I have. And it really kind of has. You know, our stamp on it, the old Carter stamp on it, which is that deep, rich. You know kind of aromatics that you get with what we have and you know a long finish. Those are the things you know that we're looking for in every batch. We do turn out, and we won't turn anything out unless I really you know, kind of feel really confident that this is one of the great products that we we've turned out okay.
Speaker 1:So, like, when you do your batch, you initially have a starting point and that would be those five barrels, but you're thinking, well, this barrel might have been too much, so you pull that barrel and substitute it with a different barrel.
Speaker 3:That is correct. You know it might be too much wood. Pull it out, Maybe put a neutral in Things like that.
Speaker 1:And if anybody you know that's one thing that you know Ed, who said hi to you. He came down for a podcast and it was pretty cool because he brought all of his samples. He brought 13 of the samples he was going to make his second batch with and he helped, he went through it with me to blend those samples, how he went about and how he did it. And one of the things that he had in those samples was a really hot. He had a super hot barrel and he had another one that was super bland and he basically said that those barrels are important when blending because sometimes you might love the blend but it's too hot and so when you substitute into the the the blander barrel, all of a sudden it gives you where you want to go. Or if the blend's too bland and you need a little bit of spice, the spice.
Speaker 3:Absolutely. It is just like cooking really truly. You know it's all about flavor and so if you kind of rule out, you'll get more flavor with older barrels a lot of times, but sometimes they can go over the hill a little bit too much so you might want to bring in some youth, you know, into that at that blend. You know just like you might need some more salt and you know scallops you made tonight, or some more lemon juice, or you know I did cook at the restaurant for about nine years and I've got two cookbooks, so you know I love flavor.
Speaker 1:Right, although it's a little bit a larger scale when you're doing a small batch, right, it's just a little bit bigger scale, that's all. Yeah, it's probably like cooking spaghetti sauce for a regiment. I think that's great. There you go, so anyways. So let's talk about now. You know where you're at now. You just came through. It's almost like you're you're at a rebirth point, where there was a little bit of a what would you say? Let's call it a pause and you're, you're back at it again. You were telling me you know you're working hard, so you know the direction of everything. We got to see um, where you bottle your area of bottling and storage to be able to do what you're doing. And then also the social club, and you're expanding the social club. Maybe talk about the social club and the expansion.
Speaker 3:We're very, very fortunate to have Brian Booth back, you know, and he's been back for a few months, four months or so, and he is saying hello to all the people who are club members. And we ran out of space, basically, and so we are adding another floor on the social club and we just now we just call it the Carter Club. You know, social sounds too formal.
Speaker 1:So it's just a club. I love it Both ways.
Speaker 3:So we're putting in another 400 lockers and so we can expand to people that would like to be a part of our club and get you know we do, we do, you know, special releases for the club members. They also get some of the, you know, regular releases that we do, the national releases you know also, so they can get those. Otherwise they might get upset with us. We'll try to give them everything we can possibly give them, you know, to make them happy. We love people being happy.
Speaker 3:So the club's doing well, brian is doing well, we're expanding and you know I'm busy down at Dixie Highway. We've got a the bottling facility there and it really helps out having your own bottle barrels there so you can do samples. We're very happy about that, having the samples that we can go out and pull and taste. You know I will be doing rise after these bourbon releases. We've got probably 12, you know, kind of very small batches, we call them, you know, five barrel blends, uh, 12 different distributors that they will go out to and then we'll move on to rise and uh, we'll do maybe, uh, a release of kentucky whiskey, which is kind of a fun one which we love. Too many people do kentucky whiskey yeah, I mean, there's no doubt.
Speaker 1:But but like you said, uh, your ability to put out, like you, american whiskey and the bourbon and the rye, it's just like. I agree with you. There's such a with the american whiskey and I don't know, single malts, american single malts, those are just wide open categories that haven't been explored to the level they are. And it's not that a lot of times american whiskey gets a name because it's being put into a used barrel. It's not part of the bourbon. Uh, what would you say? Lore of a brand new charred oak barrel and all that.
Speaker 2:But if it's done right.
Speaker 1:it's what goes into the bottle and the taste of the whiskey is what it should be and those rules that bourbon have that you don't have on American whiskey sometimes can produce some really nice flavors in American whiskey that you would never get into the bourbon.
Speaker 3:I agree completely. You know, and that's you know. We have that huge proof. Usually on the American whiskeys it seems like you know most everything is 130 and above to speak of. But we've only done a couple of hazmats and haven't seen the light of day yet. We have bottled them. They're sitting in our vault.
Speaker 1:Yes, and well, that's good. So the social club. I know how close are you getting to finishing that? Are you getting ready? Is that? Is that getting there? And then you know the whole, the distillery.
Speaker 3:We've got permits. We got, uh, you know, for the third floor. We've got, uh, you know, plumbers there. Uh, it's going a little slower, you know, than I'd like to see things, but you know, um, it might speed up here soon. So hopefully in six months we'll have that totally open and have 400 new members that we can sign up.
Speaker 1:We do do some virtual lockers for folks that want to get the product but don't have a locker yet yeah, well, I know that, uh, we're, you know, we're talking with Christy and we're excited that, hopefully, that we can get in as part of that.
Speaker 3:So we would love you to be part of that and, yes, we just have to do that.
Speaker 1:And then also, what we're excited about is that the bus tour in September, where we've where we've added the stop for the bus tour and there's a lot of people on there, that there's people who know about old Carter.
Speaker 1:There's people who know about old Carter but have not had a lot of it. So to be able to do this part on the bus tour, I'm very, very, very excited. Because that you know, spreading the word, uh, this brand, people sometimes, um, what would you say they're? It's such a a unique brand and it's not district you don't have distribution across the whole country that people are just starting to be aware of it. But then how? The probably the easiest way to get it is go to Kentucky, because that's where you're mostly distributed, correct?
Speaker 3:We try to always take care of Kentucky. That is kind of the homeland for bourbon and we try to give the most allocation always to Kentucky. And then you have to worry about California and New York because those are also very large markets for us. But you know Kentucky should get the lion's share. Usually I have some problems sometimes with the folks in California say, you know, there's like 10 times more people in California than there are in Kentucky, but it's not really taken into consideration that a lot of people come to Kentucky.
Speaker 1:Right. And then also I mean, and I understand, based off your history of what of in wine, why you want to. You know why you want to distribute to California why you want to. You know why you want to distribute to California.
Speaker 3:I get that, I do live there too, sometimes about maybe only a tenth of the time anymore. 90% of the time is here, but everything is running good. In California I still have a hotel and restaurant there and I've got a great person you know Troy Ritchie running that, and he is from Kentucky and he's done a great person Troy Ritchie running that, and he is from Kentucky and he's done a great job. And then down in Napa I have Dan Blaine and Russell Bevan actually taking care of the winery and that's running great. So they said, well, just go out to Kentucky and continue what you're doing.
Speaker 1:Kentucky and continue what you do. Okay, so let's talk about your newest batches hitting the shelf Now. I believe 16 is out.
Speaker 3:Only 14 and 15 American whiskey.
Speaker 1:Okay, and that's what I've got. Right here, I've got 14. I'm drinking right here, I've got 14.
Speaker 3:I'm drinking 14 myself.
Speaker 1:Okay, so let's talk about 14 and what you know. This is one of the now that you've after the pause. This is one of the first. Now was this ready at one point, and then you had to wait to let it go.
Speaker 3:Yes, it was, but even then, because I had to wait almost 18 months, it did change, not just the original barrels, but we had to take some barrels out and put some new ones in.
Speaker 1:Okay, so it wasn't so it had been blended, but then it still was in the barrel, mm-hmm. Okay, so then you adjusted right when you came back.
Speaker 3:Yeah you had to adjust.
Speaker 1:And at that point you couldn't. You were pretty much frozen, correct. That's why that happened. That is correct. Okay, well, I can't argue with the results.
Speaker 3:You should pause more times for 18 months. Yeah, this has got a lot of that 19 and 20-year-old in it 50% of what you're tasting is that old.
Speaker 1:That's amazing. I'm really a fan of this type of whiskey. Put it this way, I'm a fan of the caramels and the brown sugars and the vanillas. Those are all things that I've loved growing up. I didn't not like chocolate, but I didn't want but but so that's why I tended to go toward and love bourbon. So much is because of those caramels and the vanillas. But now you're now the american whiskeys, or the cup, the blends, the whiskey blends. At this level, with age state, you know that where you got some age on those, those and a lot of times what makes up american whiskey is it starts out aging in a used barrel, correct?
Speaker 2:and then it's correct. It might have been blend.
Speaker 1:It might have been the exact same bourbon mash bill or whatever, but it went into a used barrel.
Speaker 3:It really is. You know, uh, we do do a 99 one bourbon that went was you know the three things that you know didn't distill over 160 when the barrel below 125 went in a new charred barrel or you know. So, um, this probably went into used um barrel and it probably was distilled, went into that barrel higher than 125.
Speaker 1:But you know, we don't know for sure okay, well, I'm just checking YouTube right here and it seems to be doing just fine. Let's see. Yeah, so it says my, my phone's not rereading it properly, but it's working. So, anyways, all right. So, and you know, it's funny because I initially would have never thought that American whiskey would be like this, I mean not correct, but this is something that it's on a level that's above even good bourbon. You know, you have the barrel proof. I mean, this one is 134.3, and you would think it would be really, really hot, and this doesn't even…. We don't like hot.
Speaker 3:We don't like hot, we don't want anything hot. We want it to be balanced. We love balance, we love flavor. If it's balanced, it won't be hot. If it's just hot, that's just pure alcohol and that's not good.
Speaker 1:Well, I always find, especially on, there's a couple brands of bourbon that have flavor profiles I really enjoy. We all know the one where it's got a banana flavor and I like that. I if it's. There are so many different brands that they do and they that banana fat flavor can run throughout. But then you get a single barrel and there's so much pepper on it and heat that it just drowns out any other flavor and sometimes that's the kind of thing that I'm not a big fan of and I'm, you can tell, when you do your blends you're well aware of the barrel, the wood and the balance of the whiskey so that something doesn't drown out that, that sweetness that you have in there.
Speaker 3:I love balance, I love the barrel and I love blending and, like I said, I love corn. So most of the mash bills, but I like rye too. I love rye, you know, a 95.5 rye just speaks to me, but this is a 99.1, and I think corn mash is sweeter than it is usually.
Speaker 1:Yeah, a 99.1. So it's technically corn whiskey, right.
Speaker 3:It is light whiskey is what they say. It could be corn whiskey.
Speaker 1:It's just whiskey and it's American. The viscosity in the glass is insane. Oh yeah, I love that too.
Speaker 3:Mouthfeel is so important and that thickness just coats your mouth. I think that's when you know. Same way with wine when you have a wine, you drink a wine. And it's when you know it's the same way with wine when you have a wine. You drink a wine and it's so thin, it's just nothing, it's hardly there, it's all watered down.
Speaker 1:I can't stand thin wine or thin whiskey, you know yeah, it's funny because, when you think about it, when we were younger and Jack Daniels was owning the world in the 80s, it was 80 proof and I believe it was 90 proof earlier.
Speaker 1:But they cut it back down to 80 proof at one point because of what was happening in the industry in the 70s and that was to me as a kid was hot and and I quite frankly now, if I drink 80 proof, jack daniels it is has there's. No, that is not a hot whiskey, so it is does really come down to where you're at with your palate. You know, young people always, a lot of times you get and they don't like the heat of whiskey or they don't like the spiciness or it's just kind of, and that's because I believe their taste buds haven't been had the test of time to to, you know, not wear off but wear down a little bit, and I really believe wearing down allows you to taste way more flavors than you know when you're younger. That explains why all the kids love to drink soda and they drink all that really sugary stuff and then when you get older, your taste buds just don't desire that because you want something that you can taste. You know what I mean.
Speaker 3:I understand completely. I never have soda pop.
Speaker 1:Yeah, no, I actually have stopped drinking even carbonated water. I just drink naturally flavored, you know, infused, just regular water. So that's what I prefer. You know, unsweet tea, it's just the sugar. But when you were a kid you know it was like oh, soda, I'll drink the whole liter Anyway, all right. So this, this batch is right up there. For me Now, my favorite batch was was batch nine, and that one I have to look at that at that. Well, is that? Was that a bourbon?
Speaker 3:no fellas, we have. We have a batch nine bourbon, a natural and a rye, and an american whiskey well, my favorite is the american whiskey, so so I because they'll be up a little higher yeah.
Speaker 1:So right now you're on 14 and 15 of the American whiskey. And then what are you on as far as your bourbons and rinds?
Speaker 3:Very small batch bourbon We've got up to I believe it was 15, maybe 16. The rye we got up to 15 also. Uh, the the 12. You know we do skip over 13 usually, so it's a good idea. It's just kind of a fun thing. A lot of people don't know that. Some people ask I've collected almost everything you have. I can't find any 13s well you won't. If it is, it's a counterfeit there you go.
Speaker 1:It's kind of like the 13th floor doesn't exist in a hotel, exactly. Yep, it makes sense. Uh, all right. So what are you like? What are you working Exactly? Whiskey, you have complete control, which direction you want to go. Is there anything exquisite that you're working on going forward, or is it you're just kind of going straight forward, because I know you've come out with a lot of different type of things in the past?
Speaker 3:you know that like everybody knows about. I love the barrels, you know, and double barreling is, you know, know what? I do not double oaking, which you could just put staves in, and things like that, and I've loved the barrel so much. Now I'm using like four coopers and I will probably go to five or six different coopers because they all impart different flavors and we do that with the wines we make in Napa different flavors, we do that with the wines we make in Napa, so, and they all impart different flavor profiles on our grapes. So you'll maybe see some more wood Again.
Speaker 3:We don't like to put a lot on the label. We'll tell you anything we did Like you know, this is 50%, it's 19 years old, this is what we're drinking right now. We'll tell you anything we did, like you know, this is 50, it's 19 years old, this what we're drinking right now. We'll tell you anything you want to know. But you know I don't need to spill everything out on a label. So it's nice when people do, it's fine, I'm okay with that. Um, you know, I'd rather just sometimes keep it a little closer, you know, to the vest. You know, every time I tell somebody, like 36-month air-dried oak, now everybody runs out and, you know, buys 36-month air-dried oak and I can't get it. So I got to keep a few things to myself.
Speaker 1:Yeah, definitely. I mean honestly as it is. If it's American whiskey, that's enough. It doesn't have to go into all the different details of what you're getting. I mean, have you done anything with double barreling and French oak?
Speaker 3:You know I'm such a traditionalist. I've tried a few things and you know I've tried a lot of people's. You know expressions and there's some really good ones out there. The only thing I've ever done different than just American oak is basically the wine finish that we did with the Barstown Bourbon Company.
Speaker 1:Right. So which is the Carter which used the? The carter? You know your now those. Was that done with your wine barrels?
Speaker 3:was yeah, exactly so. It was done with actually tocalon barrels, which are, it's, probably the most expensive grapes you can buy in america and probably one of the greatest vineyards in the world, and I'm fortunate enough to be on that vineyard. I've been on there since actually 2000. And you can't get on the vineyard today. All the grapes are spoken for. It's only a 98 acre plot, and so we've been buying fruit from there and now we're up to 10 acres of that and it's $50,000 an acre and you get three tons an acre, and so you can do the math how much money we spend there on that vineyard.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I mean it's well now. The one thing I haven't done is drank some wine with you, so maybe in the future we can share some wine, because, like anything else, I appreciate cooking, pairing, pairing with cheeses. I pretty much have done it all Wines, because my wife is allergic to tannins in the red wine. We do a lot of Chardonnay, that's the one thing we just we've always concentrated, but I have no problem with red wine, so it always has intrigued me. So I know that. You know I've talked to you, but I've also talked to Christy about your wines, and so you know you do some fantastic winemaking also.
Speaker 3:We've been very fortunate with the critics and the vineyards we're on and the team we have. One of the things we don't do is we very lightly you know, the sulfur ads are so low. The sulfur ads are so low um, we really it's almost more organically grown with the sulfurs that end up in there. So a lot of times people say they can't drink red wines and it's usually because the uh they have to sulfur them so much to keep them from actually having uh problems. That's when you sulfur wine is when you have a bacterial problem or a bloom. They hit it so hard with sulfur and that kills that bacteria. We watch our barrels every month, we top them, we clean them and we make sure there is no growth of bacteria in those barrels and so we don't have to put the levels of sulfur in there that cause a lot of the problems that people have with red wine.
Speaker 1:That sounds fantastic. I understand that completely. Winemaking, when you talk to some people, especially people overseas, and they have some wine making expertise and they talk about especially when you thief barrels, about touching the thief and putting it back and all that and that would be devastating to wine to do that type of thing. If you were thiefing a wine barrel and you were using something that, like you'd beef a whiskey barrel, it would cause definitely cause problems with wine. There's no doubt about it. You can't afford to be putting bacteria and you know finger whatever. But then whiskey is so much different than that yes yeah, it's a little, a little more hardy.
Speaker 3:You don't have to worry about the bacteria growing in that barrel most of the time, especially at 130 proof it's basically killing all bacteria as soon as it enters it.
Speaker 1:I mean, it is definitely alcohol is what we use to clean things first. Medicine oh, I was just. You know, some people you know, it's just like people don a lot of people don't understand the medicinal aspect of how it can kill bacteria when you drink it. You shouldn't be drinking massive amounts, but a pour before bed has eliminated quite a few colds for me, so anyways, all right. So you've covered that. Now the distillery itself you have been distilling and you have eight-year-olds your own eight-year-old that you had contracts with. Correct, Correct.
Speaker 3:And since we contracted, and when you contract you can have your own mash bill and one of the things we do different than a lot of people, since I like a little higher proof I enter into the barrel a little higher proof and a lot of people may go in at 108 or something like that. Maybe we'll go in at 112 to 116, which I don't know if it's better or worse. Some people say it won't go into the barrel fast enough and age with the maceration process, but I like the flavor profiles that we're getting out of our 8-year-old and even the 4-year-old is doing really well that we put together. We've got quite a few again mash bills. We've even got a five grain.
Speaker 3:That we did quite a few years back. I think that was in 17 or 18. So that may be coming to the market, but it's been hard not having your own place and having the barrels there. So once the barrels come over I can sample those again and even the um, you know, kind of kentucky straight. We bought 100 barrels of that. It was 12 years old back in 17 18 when we bought those, so they're quite old now.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so are you distilling yourself now?
Speaker 3:Yeah, we distill also, we have to distill. I have two DSPs, so two different locations, two different companies, two different ownerships.
Speaker 1:Yes, and you have to distill Now that stuff there that you're distilling yourself. Are you thinking of increasing a little production on that, or are you basically doing the same thing and then that's just going to be kind of one-off, kind of things?
Speaker 3:It's a great way to experiment and try different mash bills, different things you want to do, so maybe someday we'll be able to do a little bit more. But when you have great friends with great distilleries, you probably should really support them.
Speaker 1:I get it. Yes, I can understand that. Yeah, because I understand the aspect of contract distilling. You, you, you did the special blend at Bardstown, what they do there with different brands and what they're doing there, plus the other places. I agree with you 100 percent. It's, it's, it's. They have all the equipment, I mean, and then the invested hundreds of millions of dollars into these facilities. So you know, hopefully we can keep them all going you know I was amazed, David Mandel, at what is it Kentucky? Oh, I got to remember.
Speaker 3:Whiskey House.
Speaker 1:Whiskey.
Speaker 3:House of Kentucky right.
Speaker 1:That's what it's called. I got to remember.
Speaker 3:Whiskey House.
Speaker 1:Whiskey House of Kentucky right, that's what it's called Down there. They just contracted to build those six state-of-the-art rickhouses where the way it's set up is designed for ultimate control of airflow and the maturation and what you get in different sections of the rickhouse which I was just reading about, that the company that's building the rickhouse is. They've been advancing the technology and they were really happy that these are going to be the first of the kind of their research of building. For, you know, perfecting maturation, you know everybody when you hear what would you?
Speaker 1:Rapid aging? It's such a negative term. So when you think about it it's like a place like Buffalo Trace. They technically don't say anything about what they do as far as heating and cooling their rickhouses, which some people would call rapid aging correct. But they just, you know, there's no such thing as making a year go faster. So if they're doing a seven-year or a six-year or eight-year or whatever they're doing, it's eight years and there's a reason why some of their stuff tastes pretty damn good because of the fact that how they heat those rickhouses it's so interesting, isn't it? It is absolutely.
Speaker 1:You know, my hat's off to them so, anyways, all right, so, and my hat's off to you as far as blending and, uh, making some fantastic whiskey. I mean I enjoy your brand and covet every bottle that I get. I mean I it's when, uh, if I've had a hard day and I want to feel better, I'll have a pour of Old Carter and it just it brings especially getting to know you and Christy and everything and the whole part of your brand and what you've done and how much you care. I mean, really it comes down to caring and we definitely look forward to going forward with what you know. Now that you're putting out more whiskey. It's pretty damn exciting.
Speaker 3:Thank you for the support and thank you for having me on.
Speaker 1:You know, yeah, I 100 percent. I'm going to after, after we're done, I'm just going to pinch myself after after we're done, I'm just gonna pinch myself. It's like mark, uh, really seriously, you're, you're just everything that you do. You're a super caring human being. I like, even just being where we've been, you can just tell, um, you you love people. You you were an in. Obviously you're an innkeeper. Yeah, you know. And what you're doing and everything that you do you care about. And that's why that I get into bourbon is for people like yourself and Christy and all the people that I meet throughout, because not only are you real, but you're the type of people that I consistently meet and you know, consider just, it's almost like you guys become family.
Speaker 3:Great community and you know I'm so happy to be part of it and all the people I met in the community. It's wonderful.
Speaker 1:Yeah, definitely. And then you produce something like this, so I'm sure your time gets pulled everywhere all the time, right, I'm Pretty busy, so do you have any places or anything you're doing coming up? You know where you're going to be out and about. You know any festivals you guys are going to or anything like that. I like going to all the different festivals.
Speaker 3:I don't get to pour at any of them because I don't really have anything to pour, but I love meeting everybody and tasting everybody's product and I usually will have some whiskey in the trunk of my car.
Speaker 1:Just kidding, just kidding, he's just kidding. So what on the 14,? What is your favorite profile of what you get off of this?
Speaker 3:A lot of marshmallow. I get this like kind of even that roasted marshmallow over a fire a little bit, you know.
Speaker 1:Yep.
Speaker 3:With a little bit of that char, Maybe some like glazed cream brulee. You know topping all the time. When I smell this one, you know it's dark, rich, roasted, like candy.
Speaker 1:Well, it sure does a drink at 134.3.
Speaker 3:I mean it's dangerously smooth, as we say.
Speaker 1:Yes, and the hug on this is just fantastic. It warms your insides so it's kind of like roasting marshmallows the taste of marshmallow, of a roasted marshmallow, and the heat of the fire is in your stomach, warming you all together at once. But you know, it's not fiery, it's just nice and warm going down.
Speaker 3:The finish is just pure creme brulee. You know it's got a great. You know coating, you know great mouthfeel, viscosity and that sweetness at the end. It's what we're looking for. This is, you know. The 15 is a little different. You know my taste. I kept tasting, when I was blending it, the three and the four American whiskey batches, because people seem to like those quite a bit, and so, you know, usually there's always one that's a little brighter. I think this one's a little brighter than the 15. You know a little higher notes, a hair maybe a little more aromatics of fruit. You may even get some fruit notes on this. The 15's a little darker, you know, maybe a little richer Not as sweet.
Speaker 3:Yes, it's a little bit sweeter.
Speaker 1:That's what I remember off the 15. The 15 was fantastic too, but it wasn't as sweet. I'm going to go towards that more often than not is 19-year-old juice.
Speaker 1:There you go, that picks up that little bit of a. It's almost like a. You know, there's an aspect of some older whiskeys that taste like the Dustys that are out there. Like that, when you have something that's been in a bottle for 20, 30, 40 years, they all have a consistent taste to them. But if it's been in the barrel that long, some some pick it up the and others others don't have as much, but that flavor is there and the. A lot of times when it's been in the bottle it that that dusty flavor kind of mixes all other dusties together. You know, like you, just it's flavor, whereas when you get it out of the barrel it seems to be there, but not as overwhelming when you get older. Do you agree with that?
Speaker 3:You know, not all barrels are great when they get old. I like the American whiskeys because they went into a used barrel. A seasoned barrel is what I would say to a used barrel. A seasoned barrel is what I would say. And you know they still always seem to have that. You know you're drinking older whiskey, which I think is cool. You taste 14 and 15, you can say this has got to be some old whiskey.
Speaker 1:Right. What would be interesting is, in like 20 years and you kept a bottle and then drank it at that point, what it would do Wouldn't that be interesting. Yes, I don't know Both of us. I can't wait. Yeah, no, let's not speed it up that fast. But I will say that you know that's something that some people don't. But when it's in, even when the seal's done, the whiskey changes in the bottle.
Speaker 3:I mean it just does it really does it really does, and I don't. You know people, some people don't believe that, but I've had some great whiskeys that have and you know even scotches that have been sealed for 40 years and you pop them and they, they will actually in some ways sometimes be like liqueurs and other times they need. Sometimes they need some air too. You know, and you know, my favorite story is telling the you know, kind of old overhauls, 1942. Uh, bottle up and I bought six of and popped it the first time and poured it and we tasted and said, well, this isn't any good at all, even though I only paid $100 for this. And I bought six of them. And then I put the cork on it and, you know, about a week later went back and said I'll try something to see if it changed. I go, oh my God, this is amazing. A week later, just needed a little air, poured it in a glass, showed it to someone and they go what is this?
Speaker 1:I said it's the same thing you drank last week and it's wonderful, yeah, and we did the first Dusty I ever had Super Nash had picked up. And he picked it up and it was an old Carter from 19,. Not an old Carter, but an old Taylor from 1969. And that old Taylor, when we opened it that night, I swear to God, he opened it and it smelled like my grandma's attic and because it was a Dusty, we all had a pour and sat around talking about how awesome it was and I thought, am I gonna die? So we drank it that night and I just the next morning. We kind of all all laughed a little bit and whatever.
Speaker 1:And that was like the first night of k Bourbon Festival, which was a Saturday. By that next Friday that bottle turned into the best caramel bomb bourbon I think I've ever tasted. It was so caramel, all that had gone away. All that mustiness or whatever was gone. It's just so unique. On how you know the thing, the telltale of a bad bourbon is if it gets cloudy. You don't want cloudiness on on something, but if it's, if it's crystal clear, like that I've just had. So you know some, but you, you got to open them sometimes and let them breathe, like you said it's unbelievable, you know, just like wine.
Speaker 3:You know, a lot of times it's older, let it breathe a little bit. And you know, sometimes, even if it's new, let it breathe a little bit.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, even this bottle to the batch nine American whiskey. Every time I drink this batch nine, it gets caramelier and better each time. So I think this has been open. It was Christmas, not last, so it's a year and a half that's been open. I mean, this is by far one of my favorite with the batch nine. American is one of my favorite of of all time. So I'm not drinking it, not drinking a pour a night or anything, but every once in a while.
Speaker 1:So, and then I really think you're 14, let's see I think that one one is that below 66, so one 23 yeah, 66.4, so it's 132.8, and then this one is one, it's a higher 134.3, so they're close, but that one, this one I'm batch 14 is a winner for me. You've done it again, thank you. So all right, um, let's, let's end the audio.
Speaker 3:Thank you okay thank you mark, for coming thank you I appreciate it being on and um, I'll see you out there somewhere in Kentucky, I'm sure.
Speaker 1:Yeah, actually, who knows, you might see me this next weekend because I'm coming down there. I don't know what I'm doing. I'm just supposedly supposed to be there Friday, Saturday and Sunday. You know I will for sure.
Speaker 3:All right, thank you.
Speaker 1:Thanks for joining us. All right, bye-bye, bye, bye, christy, bye us, bye-bye, bye, christy. All right, everybody, we're the Scotchy Bourbon Boys wwwscotchybourbonboyscom for all things Scotchy Bourbon Boys, and check us out on Facebook, youtube, instagram and X, along with all the audio podcasts of Apple iHeart and Spotify. Remember, make sure let's see. Do I even know what I'm doing here? All right,
