The Scotchy Bourbon Boys
The Scotchy Bourbon Boys love Whiskey and every thing about the industry! Martin "Super Nash", Jeff "Tiny", Rachel "Roxy" Karl "Whisky" and Chris "CT" all make up The Scotchy Bourbon Boys! Join us in talking everything and anything Whiskey, with the innovators, and distillers around the globe. Go behind the scenes of making great whiskey and learn how some of the best in the whiskey industry make their product! Remember good whiskey means great friends and good times! Go out and Live Your Life Dangerously!
The Scotchy Bourbon Boys
Thanksgiving, Turkeys, And Wild Turkey 101 Proof Traditions With Four Branches Master Distiller Gregg Snyder
We celebrate bourbon heritage, wild turkey conservation, and how a surplus of aged barrels sparked the creation of Russell’s Reserve. Gregg Snyder joins us to share stories of Jimmy Russell, warehouse wisdom, and why Russell’s 13 and 15 hit so differently.
• annual Thanksgiving special with Gregg Snyder
• turkey hunting passion and NWTF conservation work
• wild vs farm turkey taste and preparation
• cooking methods for wild turkey including nuggets and piccata
• tracking tips using footprints and droppings
• path from Brown‑Forman cooperage to Wild Turkey leadership
• mandate to protect tradition and avoid shortcuts
• how inventory analysis led to Russell’s Reserve
• naming, first bottling, and early pricing strategy
• bourbon vs Tennessee whiskey clarity
• maturation sites including Camp Nelson and McBrayer
• Russell’s 13 vs 15 tasting contrasts and oxidation talk
• Rare Breed blend concept and rising entry proofs
• lessons from legends and blending today at Four Branches
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A holiday pour tastes better with a story, and this one comes straight from the rickhouse. We welcome industry veteran Gregg Snyder to trace the line from turkey tracks and conservation fields to the barrel floors of Wild Turkey, sharing how an overlooked inventory problem lit the spark for Russell’s Reserve and why protecting tradition still matters in a world of shortcuts.
We start with the outdoors: the rush of a dawn gobble, how to tell a gobbler’s print from a hen’s, and why the wild bird’s best eating is in the breast. Gregg breaks down simple, crowd-pleasing prep—crispy nuggets, teriyaki kebabs, even a bright, silky piccata—then connects that kitchen craft to the patient arc of bourbon maturation. From Brown‑Forman’s cooperage to his tenure running operations at Wild Turkey, he explains the quiet rule that shaped a generation of whiskey: never change how the whiskey is made. No enzyme tricks, no shortcuts—just wood, time, and careful selection.
Then we open the vault. Gregg recounts proposing a new bourbon to honor Jimmy Russell—Russell’s Reserve—born from aging stock the spreadsheets wouldn’t touch. We talk warehouses from Camp Nelson to McBrayer, the effect of elevation and airflow, entry proof shifts, and why Rare Breed’s blend-first logic still sings. A guided tasting squares Russell’s 13 against 15: caramel-vanilla richness vs oak-forward structure. If you love dessert-like depth, 13 feels like a sweet spot; if you crave tannin and cigar-box edges, 15 scratches that itch. Along the way you’ll hear the kind of Jimmy Russell stories that make you smile and pour another ounce.
This one blends heritage, practical tasting insights, and the warmth of a Thanksgiving table. If bourbon history, Wild Turkey lore, and smart, no‑nonsense tasting notes are your thing, you’ll feel right at home. Follow and subscribe on your favorite app, share with a friend who loves Russell’s or Rare Breed, and leave a quick review to help more whiskey fans find the show. What’s your pick: Russell’s 13 or 15—and why?
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Welcome back to another podcast of the Scotchy Bourbon Boys. We've got Super Nash in the house. And we also have very, very special special guest, Greg Schneider. If you listen to the podcast, you will know that he has been on frequently. Not as much lately, but we're working on it. But tonight he sets himself apart from our other guests, uh Alan Bishop and Randy Pratt, who he was tied with for being on the podcast the most. And tonight he's he's he's he's he's one upping them. Yeah. Yeah, Greg, Greg, you're the butt-up up tonight for the podcast. So everybody, it's great to have you here, man.
SPEAKER_04:It sure is. Always a pleasure, guys. I tell you, it's you know, I I listen in as often as I can, and uh love what you do, and as I've always told you, love what you do for our industry and promoting it. So thank you. And it's uh it's an honor to be on.
SPEAKER_05:Yeah, thank you. Thank you, thank you for being here and taking taking time out. I know it's a holiday weekend right here, right before Thanksgiving day. And that brings us to what we're doing. This is our annual Thanksgiving special podcast that we always like to do.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, yeah, but the first time we've done it on the Tuesday before, so I had always done a Thursday morning podcast, but you know, you yes, that would be good for the audio recording, and then people can listen to it down the line. But why wouldn't you pre-record a Thanksgiving podcast so that people, if they want to listen to it, they could actually listen to it on Thanksgiving or down the line.
SPEAKER_05:But this is or watch it on YouTube, right?
SPEAKER_00:Right, exactly. But they can, you know, we're we're prepped for tonight. This is Thursday, we're just gonna take the day off, so we won't be doing a live that night, but then we'll get you next week, you know, next week, Tuesday. But this podcast is started and it's exciting because Greg has such a wealth of knowledge of the industry. And I want to thank you, Greg, because you basically took us from you know, people just getting into bourbon, you know, as a bourbon fan, not really knowing much about it, you know, we're talking about what we didn't know. And then you got you kind of took us, you know, between you and Alan and whatever, you took us under your your wing, that we could, so to say. And I think that more applies to you considering you worked for you've worked for a c two companies, one is a chicken and the other one was a turkey. I think you might be the only person on the planet that's done that, where the logo is like I've worked for a lot of different companies, but yeah, here uh it's foul related.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, you're right.
SPEAKER_00:Right. And and and and you've got nothing, I mean, but you know, one of the things that, you know, to get to get into it, another aspect of why this makes sense. We like to always highlight on Thanksgiving the wild turkey brand, and that's great, but you're also an avid turkey hunter, and you also have cooked turkeys many and prepared turkeys many different ways. So having you on tonight is kind of a a cool, fun thing, you know, to when you think about it.
SPEAKER_04:All right. So we're gonna do a food and pairing with with the great bird show tonight. Is that right?
SPEAKER_05:Yeah, yeah. Also, too, are are are you not part of the wild turkey uh federation?
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, yeah. So now I'm uh I'm a diamond life member, the National Wild Turkey Federation. Yeah, but also on the resume, uh I'm a member of the uh Kentucky Turkey Hunter Hall of Famer. So there. Yeah, also turkey hunting's been always one of my passions and and uh for a long, long time, and and conservation is a big part of that.
SPEAKER_06:So yeah.
SPEAKER_05:Yeah, and that that those were a couple of great acclements that I I wanted to include too, because uh I knew you knew that you were at all.
SPEAKER_04:It's it's a passion of mine. I I've I've loved it ever since I got involved and and became a member of the National Wild Turkey Federation actually the year before I started working at Wild Turkey Distillery. And you know, they've always got a nice sponsorship with the the NWTF National Turkey Federation. And I I was able to take that up, you know, a couple notches higher and provide them some financial support and sponsorship. And and the company benefited as well, you know. Back then, uh the National On Turkey Federation was the fastest growing conservation, you know, hunting conservation organization going. And uh, you know, they're the the members of that organization were a lot like NASCAR fans, okay?
SPEAKER_06:Yeah.
SPEAKER_04:Very loyal to their driver or who they love, and just like the NWTF. You know, you supported their organization, they supported you. And so it really helped to promote uh uh wild turkey and grow their sales uh domestically. It was phenomenal.
SPEAKER_05:If I'm not mistaken, you also are involved with getting kids and younger kids and all involved in turkey hunting too, right?
SPEAKER_04:That was a big part of it, you know, on along. I mean, they had the the Jakes program, which was the youth hunters in that. Yes. And so, you know, all the chapters that I was members of, and even just aside from that, you know, we we would get kids involved, of course. Wild turkey, we didn't we s we sponsored with money, but we didn't want the the name recognition, okay? You don't want to get in connection with a spirits industry and a youth organization. Yeah, but we we worked kind of you know off the side, silently promoting money to to help the kids and promote the sport with with the younger kids. Yeah, personally, that's one of my favorite things to do is take a a young, you know, a young kid turkey hunting that's never experienced it. I mean, to to sit there in the dark and the sun's starting to come up and you hear that turkey's first goblin. I mean, their eyes just get big as saucers, and and what you know, watching them watch the world come alive in the morning is just it's a spectacular event that one I've I've cherished and enjoyed for many years. So I I thought so.
SPEAKER_05:That's amazing too. And like I say, it it gives the kids a chance to experience something out of their normal realm of life and to, you know, to where maybe they can carry it further in their life.
SPEAKER_04:Absolutely.
SPEAKER_05:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Really quick. Uh what I'm just trying to make the flashing stop. There we go. That started. What I do want to ask you is I've never. So what's the difference compared to a commercial or let's just say something, maybe a farm you pick your turkey up from, like we order from a specific farm. You know, it's my wife is no, you know, no antibiotics. The way it's raised and fed is everything, but it's not wild. So what's the difference in taste when you huge difference?
SPEAKER_04:Huge difference.
SPEAKER_00:So is it is it what is it gameier?
SPEAKER_04:It's gamey. It's it's got a little gameiness to it. But you know, quite honestly, I mean, you you can utilize as much of the wild turkey as there is to utilize once you you know skin it out and whatever. But truly, the only palatable piece of a wild turkey is the breast. I mean, the the legs, the wings, you know, the thighs. There's so many tendons in those parts of that wild turkey, it's really tough to get any any quality meat. So if you're gonna make a stew or a soup or something, you can bowl that off, but basically the breast is the primary piece of a wild turkey. Where uh you know, a butter ball or a store-bought turkey you get on Thanksgiving, you know, you're gonna get 99% of the meat that's up.
SPEAKER_00:The meat you can eat.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah. Okay. Good question.
SPEAKER_00:No, yeah. Oh, thank you.
SPEAKER_04:It's like anything else, you know. It's it's all in how you prepare it. I mean, a lot of people say, oh, it's too gamey. I I don't like it, you know. If it's fixed right, prepared right, it's awesome.
SPEAKER_05:It's it sure is. Yeah. I have to I have to agree wholeheartedly. It's it's all in the chef. And also, too, then and when you get wild game, it's a a matter of how you how you're curating that deer and all that, or or the or the wild turkey. You know, you've got to gotta get to do certain things to it and all that beforehand, and then once you prepare it, it you know, it's all so there, so there's no deep frying those wild turkeys.
SPEAKER_04:Oh, absolutely. I mean, you can make turkey nuggets. You take the brass, that's one of the best ways to eat it. Is you take the breast meat and you cut it up into nuggets and and batter it and deep fry it. You know, turkey nuggets are awesome. Okay. I've seen you, I've actually seen you do that and and prepare it like that over the year.
SPEAKER_00:I've had your what was it, your pheasant nuggets?
SPEAKER_04:A little hot sauce or something too, along with I've done it with that turkey, and I've also done that with pheasant breasts as well. Well, I've I've tasted the pheasant. Yeah, you had the pheasant, I believe.
SPEAKER_00:It was delicious.
SPEAKER_04:But but uh, you know, you you take, well, other than fried, you know, for years I'd do it like a teriyaki turkey. I'd cut it up in nuggets and do kebabs, you know, with with teriyaki sauce, homemade teriyaki sauce, but I'd use mushroom soaked with teriyaki sauce, you know, chunks of pineapple, you know, sweet peppers, onions, and just did kebabs and for reviews. That's the way I love it. More recently, though, I've made a picata out of it. I mean, if you've ever had wild trippy picata, it is to die for it.
SPEAKER_00:You I believe that I believe Al has done that for you, right?
SPEAKER_04:Al did that for me. Yeah, I've done it with another friend of mine actually down in Florida, but but uh I brought some, had some home here, and I uh talked to Al one night, and I I prepped the the the beat. I took the breast and I counted it down about an eighth inch thick, maybe a little, maybe more now, but and then I sliced it up a little bit and I soaked it in butter overnight. And I took it to Al, and he made the most amazing pie turkey picata that you'd ever eat. I mean, it just melted in.
SPEAKER_00:Well, a shout out to Amore. We gotta give a shout out to Amore.
SPEAKER_04:We're talking about Al Papsadero.
SPEAKER_00:Yep. Cheers. Al Papsadero. Now, does he does he take Thanksgiving off or does he do a Thanksgiving dinner?
SPEAKER_04:Actually, they're they're uh they're they're hosting Thanksgiving dinner and they're doing Christmas Eve dinner as long as it New Year's Eve dinner as well. So here we are.
SPEAKER_00:So freaking lucky. You have you have your choice of whatever. I mean, Thanksgiving, like I think this year I could actually, if I would have known it, I could have convinced Roxy to go down because all the kids at the last minute, nobody's coming, and we just have our granddaughter, and I'm telling you, she's cooking for 20, and there's gonna be me, her, and a nine-year-old girl. I really, uh and I'm not a huge, I don't like to stuff myself on on Thanksgiving. I like to kind of just whatever. I'm not, I've stuffed myself enough over the years that now I prefer to eat the proper amount to feel good. You know what I mean? So I'm not, I don't fall asleep at nine o'clock and then can't wake up the next day. So, but that would have been the year. One, I should tell her that because that would be awesome to go there. I mean, but you can just if if it's not happening for you on any of those those days, you can just you're right there, aren't you?
SPEAKER_04:I I am blessed. Yes, sir. I am blessed.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
SPEAKER_04:So, anyways, that sounds that's question why I'm thinking about it, though. I mean, I again I love your shirt, love the turkey tracks on that. So that track is is that a a gobbler, you know, a long beard, or is that a hen turkey track?
SPEAKER_00:Oh my god, you're gonna ask me that. I'm gonna I'm gonna go with it's a long beard.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, and why is that?
SPEAKER_00:Because why would wild turkey put out a hen track on their shirt? I mean, just I just don't think they would do that.
SPEAKER_04:I'm gonna go thing, but you're true. I mean, when I go scouting, you know, I usually scout property before the Caesar comes in, and that's one of the things I look for is his turkey tracks. And and a male turkey, a gobbler, the middle toe is longer than the outer toes. The hand turkey, the toes are all the same length. So that's how you know there's gobblers around or hands around.
SPEAKER_05:Okay, that's that's what I was gonna say is because of the the longer middle toe. Yeah, but I didn't know for sure until you just said it.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, and you can you can find uh you can also tell about the droppings, uh the turkey droppings that are on the ground as well.
SPEAKER_00:Okay.
SPEAKER_04:So a male another good question. Yeah, we have you know people say, Oh, you don't know shit. It's yeah, I know shit. Turkey, a male turkey dropping has a chain hook on the end of it. Where female, the hands are just little gobs, just little round globs.
SPEAKER_00:So and the female tend tend to leave a lot because they all hang out.
SPEAKER_04:They're constantly feeding.
SPEAKER_00:I mean, yeah, they're they're just there's gonna be how they go on resistance.
SPEAKER_05:I mean, there's when it comes to the male from this point on, when people tell me that I don't know shit, I'm gonna tell them you're wrong, I do. I I was educated. There you go.
SPEAKER_00:Tracking makes all the difference, there's no doubt.
SPEAKER_05:Yep.
SPEAKER_00:All right, so that brings us to the whiskey part of this. Yes. Let's uh let's talk a little bit about your time at Wild Turkey because that you you worked at Seagram's initially, and then and that's then the then Brown and Foreman became that's there. But how did you get from Brown and Foreman running their Cooperage to Wild Turkey? And then specifically, let's talk about what you were doing at Wild Turkey.
SPEAKER_04:So, yeah, I um you know, I was at uh at Brown Foreman for gosh, 12 years, I guess, in a variety of capacities and love the great company to work for, loved working with the group I worked with. And as you mentioned, I was out at uh Bluegrass Cooperage making barrels, not only for Brown Foreman company, Jack Daniels early times, you know, O Forster, Woodford, but we made it for everybody in the industry. And so that's where I got to meet guys like Booker No and Parker Beam and Almer T. Lee, and got to be friends with them because we made barrels for them. And uh, you know, I I love just going there and sitting down with them and and and drinking their their their bourbons and uh you know establishing some great friendships. But the time came when it was uh I was looking to for a better opportunity given the the political uh changes and structure within Brown Foreman. And you know, every week I'd get recruiters, you know, hey, we've got a great opportunity, would you be interested in that? Now not not interested, not interested. Well, one day I said, you know what, yeah, sure. What do you got? And this guy had an opportunity, he was a recruiter out of Atlanta, and so I listened to him and I said, Yeah, I might be interested in it. So long story short, I got hired on as a vice president of Boston Danickles and a managing director at Wild Turkey. And uh I'd known Jimmy, not real close, but I'd known Jimmy in the industry for years, and so they they were looking, it was owned by Perdot Ricard at that time, and it wasn't known as a wild turkey distillery even though that was kind of a how people knew it as. It was called Boulevard Distillers at the time. And Perdot Ricard owned the distillery, but DiJo actually had a partnership. DIJO owned the marketing and sales rights up to the brand.
SPEAKER_00:And so it was it's kind of a unique it's almost like Frankenstein.
SPEAKER_04:Well, yeah, it's a very unique partnership. But anyhow, in 1998, March of 1998, is when I went to work for Wild Turkey as your managing director, as my friends lovely call me, I was a hit turkey. You know, Jimmy Russell worked for me at the time, and basically everybody at the plant. That's that's what I am responsible for. Everything in in uh Kentucky, including the visitor center, the whole nine yards.
SPEAKER_00:So because it was wasn't it was no longer now. Did Jimmy did they they've always did they ever have ownership in that? Ever?
SPEAKER_04:Or did they just work for their gosh he was in that 1950s, 60s, 50s, I guess, because he was 19. Jimmy was 19 years old. Jimmy was probably one of the best athletes to come out out of Anderson County, Kentucky, and there's been some great athletes come out of Anderson County, Kentucky. Jimmy was playing some semi-pro baseball at the time. Oh wow. And uh he got an opportunity, he was working in the the lab, actually. Got a job at 19 years old working in the lab and just kind of worked his way up. But the Russell family never did. It was owned by the Rippe family back then. Oh you remember old Rippe? Yes.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, the old Rippe mansion now, and yeah.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, but the Ripke family owned it then, then I became T.W. Samuels after that. And if I'm not mistaken, that's when it did change to the Boulevard Distillers, and then when I was there, Prinult Ricard and DiAgio acquired Seeger's. I believe it was in the year 2000. And Prinult Ricard bought out Diageo's piece of it. And so it always been there's a lot of DBAs, you know. Austin Nichols was was one of them, and that's where Wild Turkey actually came. It's back in the 1950s, I believe, when Prince Ricard just bought it, or just bought uh Austin Nichols, and a guy by the name of Tom McCarthy. Tom was a VP of sales, and every year he would go on a turkey hunt down in the Carolinas. And you know, back in those days, everybody would bring something. You know, somebody bring meat and cheese, and somebody bring this and that. Well, Tom would go to the warehouse and he brought some bourbon out of a barrel he'd take down this turkey on it for turkey camp that week. And it happened to be 101 proof, and they loved it. You know, after the days of hunting, day of hunting and sitting around the fire and having a great meal. Everybody said, Man, this this bourbon is awesome. And so every year they keep asking, hey Tom, bring back some more of that that uh wild turkey bourbon. And so that's how wild turkey bourbon actually got its name, and it was 101 proof.
SPEAKER_05:So wow, that's amazing. That is uh that's a great story.
SPEAKER_00:And and when you think about it, Wild Turkey 101 is still readily available at on the shelf, you know.
SPEAKER_05:On the shelf, right? It's been a big staple of theirs, and it's you never have seen it went away, and seems like it's always gonna be there too.
SPEAKER_00:So so the unique aspect is unlike uh Booker and Fred and Freddie, they're part of the family that at one point owned owned the business, and then it transferred in. And now today they're very similarly run, right? Both Jimmy and Eddie and Bruce are all part of the you know, working there, doing in part of the everyday operations. And then you've got the same thing, you know, Fred, Freddie and Fred there over there, part of the everyday operations, and and Booker was part of it too. So they're very important. And so they're technically there's a there's three generations of Russell's at Wild Turkey now, right?
SPEAKER_04:Well, actually, I think Jimmy's dad actually worked at the distillery, but he didn't have any ownership.
SPEAKER_00:Okay.
SPEAKER_04:Okay, yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Okay, so so it's just uh I always thought that it was almost like very similar.
SPEAKER_05:I did not really four generations strong. Yeah, that's right.
SPEAKER_00:Right, right. So that's that's kind of that's kind of cool. So when you went there, you technically, as far as your position, you were overseeing what Jimmy was doing at the time. And not that you, you know, I'm sure, but then how much did you learn, you know, well, now that you were head of operations and you're running a uh, you know, the gift, the, you know, the the welcome center, the what at the time, what what it was, you know, where people came through and you're running everything. How different was that compared? You've done everything and you were, but you hadn't been in a position where you were running everything. You ran the Cooperage, but you weren't running everything. How different was that? What was that like to actually go in? Did you ever have those conversations with with Jimmy? And you know, was there a were they asking you to ask Jimmy stuff because they didn't want to ask it?
SPEAKER_04:No, you know, I mean, even at the COVID time, I actually am responsible for everything there. But but aside from that, you know, I you know, the learning aspects. We talked about it earlier, and jokingly, but still, I mean, if there's a day that goes by that I don't learn something new, then you know what? I may think about totally just retiring because I still love it. I mean, I learned stuff new. Every people I meet, I mean, there's some some great young guns as far as young master distillers in this industry that are gonna take it to another level. And, you know, again, I knew Jimmy and met him previously, but getting to work with him and work close with him, you know, you get to understand what makes the man, okay, and really what drives him. And that was an important part for me to understand. Um I'll never forget uh the first day I started working, again, Prinor Ricard owned, and I had to fly to New York City to the corporate office. And there was a gentleman, Michelle or not Michelle, Patrick Ricard was the CEO of Preneur Ricard. Okay. The president was a gentleman by the name of uh Terry Jackia. And Mr. Jackia was there at the New York offices the day, the first day I started went up there and got to meet him and shook his hand and we had a nice conversation. And I vividly remember said, you know, he says, We have a lot that can be accomplished at that distillery. He said, however, never, ever change the way we make whiskey. And I took that to heart. And there were so many ways that we could have probably improved our cost of goods sold by adding some enzymes and increasing our yields or doing this and that. But I took that to heart. And I didn't I didn't do that. I mean, uh there's some things, it was a lot of low-hanging fruit to probably reduce our cost and improve operations, but none of it had to do with with the quality of the whiskey. So and so, yeah, it's it's uh it was an important aspect when it started there.
SPEAKER_00:That's really cool. Absolutely.
SPEAKER_05:That's that that shows that that tradition is carrying through uh to this to this day, you know, and and especially in the taste of their whiskeys and everything.
SPEAKER_00:So did they early on when you know, because you're talking about a certain time, uh this hasn't been forever that that it's been around. I mean, has it all was Thanksgiving time always a special time there with the association with Turkey and everything? Did they do it differently, or was it just how did they look at look at Thanksgiving?
SPEAKER_04:Well, I think from a sales promotional perspective, there there were opportunities there to kind of you know highlight the brand a little bit. But you know, I've always told people, my dad was a bourbon drinker, and that's that's what got me into bourbon as well. And unfortunately he had passed away before I started working there. But I knew he was up and heaven from ear to ear because he he loved his bourbon, and he always had a bottle of eight-year-old wild turkey in the very back of his bar. And when it was Thanksgiving or Christmas or special holidays, anniversaries, he would pull that bottle and have a pour. That's the only time he could touch that bottle. And so it was something special for him. And uh, and so I kind of I was I was kind of proud of the moment and and opportunity to be there and be a part of.
SPEAKER_00:Well, think about that that statement that you just made. He's he had a bottle of eight year. Now, me and uh CT were down there, and they were they had released through the gift shop the eight-year, the eight-year, and we and it's I got CT the last bottle, and he was like, Oh, I'm like, you can have you can have it. But but think about that was a special bottle. And then what we're doing tonight, this is a perfect segue, is we're going to be doing the Russell's 15 year. So now you're talking about they've they've added, yes, all three of us have that. And we're gonna we're gonna do a barrel, old Louisville whiskey company, barrel bottle breakdown of this 15. But think about that, that how bourbon has evolved from that time period. What was special? And it was an eight-year, but there wasn't this this aspect that I will give credit to Elmer T. Lee and Booker. And then, you know, as this went around, then you got, you know, wild turkey. This is all the this this generation probably making these higher-end special special bottles. It's really kind of exploded. You know, how many special bottles, you know, it's so there's so many special bottles that what is the special bottle that you break open uh that you keep in the back of your shelf? You know, is it one, you know, is it one that has a special the a special story attached to it? Because I mean, you special bottles are pretty much out there a lot these days, would you not say?
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, pretty much. I mean, uh I don't really have one special bottle that I keep back. I mean, I I you know me, I've I've had an opportunity to to taste so many great bourbons and you know, whatever's available, and and you know, if I know something's coming up and I got something that I really like that I want to share with friends, and you know, I'll hang on to that's when we'll open it.
SPEAKER_00:But uh and you've also had opportunity to make. It too. You really had a good opportunity to make special bottles, and that's really kind of the kind of thing.
SPEAKER_04:And you know, you're talking about Russell's time. You want me to go into how Russell's candidate?
SPEAKER_00:Yes, because then we'll, yeah, that's definitely we've, you know, when when we did, I think we did our one of our lives on Friday night that when we were first starting off that weren't part of the podcast, and you came on and we were doing Russell's, I believe, six and tenure. We had it out, and me and John, and then you came on and then you blew our mind. You just blew our mind. We're just like, wait, what? What? And so, so talk about that.
SPEAKER_04:Talk about how that yeah, you know, you know, um the company's owned by Kapari, now an Italian company, and they they put out a lot of marketing hype, which you know, don't believe in what you read. And I'll just leave it at that. But I started there in March of 1998. For no, I'd been there a couple months, and for no retard, I'd go to New York City at least once a month, a lot of times twice a month to meetings and what have you. But one day they asked me, said, you know, we think we have too much whisk. Would you take a look at our inventory and and let us know if we have too much whisk? I said, I'll be glad to do that, but I need to know what your sales forecasts are out into the future. You know, back then we had numerous brands. We had 80 proof, 101, which is about 75 or more percent of the total volume. We had rare breed, we had Kentucky Spirit, and some duty-free and international items. And anyhow, they said, well, let's figure all those, all the brands, wild turkey brands, 2% growth for the next three years. I said, No, I I need to know after 12 years. You've got brands that are 12 years old, so I need to know what your sales forecasts are after 12 years. That way I can back that into the inventory and determine if you have too much. So yeah, long story short, I've got this, I call it a liquidation distillation model that I built. It's an XL spreadsheet. It factors in how old the whiskey is, what the yield should be, you know, in that from the angel share, medium and butt barrels, how many proof gallons are available, and you can tie that back into what sales you need, give them the different formulas and so forth. And it tells you, you know, the barrels you need, not only the barrels you got an inventory that you need to use up, but also what you need to lay down to plan in the future. And so I conducted this analysis and I had a meeting up in New York City late on in the week. Went up there and they said, Well, you know, what's the answer? So, well, the answer is this you don't have too much whiskey, but you got too much older whiskey. And they said, Well, how can that be? I said, Well, the finance group in New York City at the corporate office, they're telling the folks in Kentucky which barrels to pull for the different brands. Wild Turkey 101 is like I said, 75-80% of the total volume. And they were using six and a half-year-old bourbon for for, and Wild Turkey has one for the bourbon, they have one mash. Okay, it's the same mashbook. And so they would tell the folks in Kentucky which barrels to pull for that. So every year they'd use six and a half years old. Well, six and a half years ago, they made far more bourbon than what they were selling the current day that we were talking about. And so what happened was the next year roll around, now this bourbon's seven and a half years old. And the finance group says, Oh, we can't use that. That's going to increase our you know, our component cost. Because another year older, there's more evaporation loss, there's avalar taxes and expenses against that. So we can't increase our cost. So they kept using the six and a half year old, so that they just kept getting older and older with it. So I said, Well, what can we do about that? I said, Well, first off, finance group in New York needs to stop telling people in Kentucky what barrels you use. They're they're smart people, they can they can they can figure it out, okay?
SPEAKER_00:They can do it much better.
SPEAKER_04:Exactly. Now, I said next, we have to use some of this older stuff. So now 101 is six and a half year olds. Well, we're gonna have to put some seven and a half, eight, eight-year-old, maybe nine-year-old, not in such big percentages that it's gonna totally change pace profile. Well, we're gonna have to start using it up because we got a bunch, okay? Second option is we can try to sell age whiskey in a barrel. And in 1998, when when this happened, nobody was buying age whiskey, not like it is today or has been during this bourbon. Yeah, nobody was buying it. And so that really wasn't an hour. I said the third option is let's come out with a new bourbon. Okay. And I said, it's high time this company paid tribute to one of the greatest master distillers in this industry, Jimmy Russell. And they said, Yeah, yeah, that's a great idea, but what should we call it? I said, Well, for life of a better name, why don't we call it Russell's Reserve? And so they agreed, now Jimmy didn't know anything. This is on a Friday, up in New York City at the corporate offices. So I flew back that weekend. Monday morning, I go into the plant, and like I did every morning, I throw my laptop on the computer or on my desk, and I go over to distillery and see you know what happened during the weekend and check the numbers and so forth and all the lab tests, and I go over to violin and say hello to folks over there, and then come back. Well, I saw Jimmy that boring. I said, Jimmy, I said, you know, I was in New York this past week. I said, uh, we're thinking about coming out with a new brand. I said, if I'm not mistaken, though, we got some some great 10-year-old bourbon on the fourth floor of V warehouse. So sometime today, you mind running up there and grabbing a sample of it? Let's let's try it out. And so he did, and later that afternoon, uh, I was just finishing up in the meeting with the union, and uh just knock on the door, and Jimmy opened the door, and he says, You busy? I said, Oh, come on in, Jimmy. So we're we're just wrapping up here. And so he came in and had a little sniffer glass with a spur. He said, Here's that bourbon sound you wanted. Well, I grabbed it from him, and I got a put from my nose and a caramel and vanilla, so I took the head off my shoulders. Holy cow! And so I sipped it, and I mean, I thought, wow, that's amazing. And you got it on Jimmy. Jimmy wouldn't cuss if he had a mouthful, but he sat there and he just looked at me and granted and he shook his head and said, That's a pretty good bourbon. Yes, sir. Well, again, he didn't know this was gonna be his namesake. So I worked with the packaging folks and worked in the marketing, and originally came in the original tall wild turkey bottle. It was 101 proof, and it said wild turkeys russell reserves all screen printed in in gold. And when we finally decided to to you know unveil it and present it to him, you know, he shed a couple tears and was pretty proud of it. But I'm I'm pleased the way that uh the brand has resonated. And the other thing was marketing. I mean, this is 1998, actually hit the shelf in 1999. Our marketing group tried to hit a price in it. I said, you know, this is 10-year-old bourbon. It's is this 1998, 1999? It's a$40 bottle of bourbon. He said, Oh no, we're gonna charge$24.99. I said, What? I mean, I I blew up, I couldn't believe it. He said, Well, our$101 at the time was like$18 a bottle, rare breed was$32 a bottle. So they wanted to hit a price point just in between those two. And even today, I think for 10-year-old bourbon, it's some of the best value bourbon you're gonna find out there. The flavors are phenomenal. And uh, yeah.
SPEAKER_05:So I so I just gotta ask before we get any further. So actually, Jimmy at the time, you told him he he went out and pulled those samples from the barrel himself. Yes, wow. That's that's awesome. Now, did he I mean it's hard for me to fathom knowing Jimmy as he is today, is that was back in a time where he he was he was a working man, right? Well, yeah, I mean that's that's been what? RG, that's been 20, 86, 27 years ago.
SPEAKER_04:27 years ago, yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah in 1998, realistically, nobody, nobody that was drinking bourbon gave two shits who the master distiller was in 1998. They weren't, it wasn't, it wasn't a thing yet. The bourbon aspect, you know, people in the in the industry, in the industry, in the industry, yes, 100% people knew, and people in Kentucky knew. But when it came to the everyday person walking into that that store and buying bourbon, that you know, Jimmy and Booker and all that, they weren't that hadn't yet started to take hold yet about the the the history. Now, Jim Bean was putting the people on the side of the bottle, but when I I had bottles of Jim Beam too, and I it I it well, it didn't mean anything to me. You know what I mean? I wasn't I was looking for something that I could get through, not not who was making it. Now, here's here's a real quick question before we keep going on this. So the one thing that's really unique to me is that yes, I find right now bourbon is coming down. It's coming back down. For instance, the bottle of rare breed last year probably peaked at about$49. When I started buying it in 2019, it was$32 and it had gone up. Well, this I went out this weekend because it's one of my favorite bourbons that I like to drink on. I only had one bottle signed by Jimmy Russell, so I am not opening that one. So I went and bought one. It's$44.99. Everything is, I feel everything's starting to come down for a number of reasons. But the one reason, main, is that they're that we're starting to get into some supply. And they got they're gonna, as we get into the supply, and it's not going the, you know, the bourbon boom isn't going full out. There's still people drinking an awful lot of bourbon, they're gonna lower the price to keep us, to keep us, they can lower the price to keep us rocking and rolling. That that that will be a really good thing, and you start to see that already. But the one thing that I've noticed is when I was a kid and I walked in, you know, when I'm 22, 23 years old, and I walked into a store, if I bought a bottle of Jack Daniels or Jim Beam, it was$18.99,$19.99 for 750 milliliter, and it was the top shelf stuff. That was the high-end stuff that you got at the bar, Jack Daniels. You were Jim Beam. But now when you walk in, the price is exactly the same. It's$18.99,$19.99 a bottle, but it is not the top shelf stuff. But the price, how how is the price on those bourbons and whiskey, how has it stayed the same forever?
SPEAKER_04:It all relates to to profit margin, man. I mean, as long as they're they're cost of goods sold, they will keep that down. You know, it's all the margins. That's what you got to show your your shareholders that you're maintaining the profitability and the margins.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. You gotta think it costs more to make it.
SPEAKER_05:I want to say that that relates to why they're coming out with all these different brands now in each of the different companies, like the the the 13-year, the 15-year, and and like the the rip house and all that, because that's where they're making up in the profit margin. I'm I want I want to think anyway.
SPEAKER_00:They don't not enough. I mean, you could take all of these these special high-end high-end bourbons that they're releasing and the amount that they release, just like Buffalo Trace and everything, but the it doesn't, you could take them and add them all up on the shelf, and you could take all of them and put them together, and it doesn't even come close to what Jim Beam is sell. I mean, Jim Beam and Jack Daniels sell. They're just selling such a huge volume. Yeah. Those base bourbons are 80% of the market. 80% of people who drink bourbon drink Wild Turkey 101, Jack Daniels, and and Jim Beam. That's that's they're that's what they're drinking, even on the percentages of beam. You know, it's mostly Jim Beam, correct?
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, beams are the highest selling bourbon bourbon. And I don't I don't consider Jack Daniels.
SPEAKER_00:It's coming, it's actually catching old Foresters. It's it's catching catching up to Jack Daniels because Jack Daniels has dropped a little bit. Because they were slow to the market of their specialty their specialty whiskey.
SPEAKER_04:Jack Daniels is not a bourbon. You'll not see bourbon on the label. We you've seen his argument, you've had that label.
SPEAKER_00:Yes, because because you do realize George Dickle that puts it through the process has a nine-year nine, George Dickle nine-year bourbon, which is the same process, they just call it bourbon. But but Jack Daniels doesn't want to call it. They want a Tennessee whiskey. They don't want anything to do with it. They got Old Forrester and and they got Old Forester and Woodford Reserve to be their bourbons. They don't need Jack Daniels to be bourbon.
SPEAKER_04:I can't tell you how many free drinks I've gotten at the bar when the bartender says, Well, here's our bourbons, and he lists Jack Daniels. That's not a bourbon. He says, Yes, it is. I said, No, it's not. Yes, it is. Well, tell you what, I'll bet you a free drink, and no, I'll double the price of your drinks if you can find bourbon on that label.
SPEAKER_00:You can.
SPEAKER_04:Oh, yeah.
SPEAKER_00:No, no, Bron and Foreman is not interested. They want it to be Tennessee whiskey because it doesn't need to compete with bourbon. They got their own bourbons, they know what they're doing.
SPEAKER_05:Greg, you say that, and and I'll go in when I go into like a strange restaurant or something like that, you know, when I'm out traveling, and I'll ask, I'll ask the people, what bourbons do you have? And then they'll they'll pull that guy down. And I I'll tell them so no, that's that's not bourbon. And and and they'll pull a couple others, no, that's not bourbon. I want your bourbons that you have. And then then it always comes down to like Jim Beam or wild turkey or something like that.
SPEAKER_00:Or makersmark. Maker's Mark is on more starting to be out there.
SPEAKER_04:It's about every bar. You're right. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. Well, it does make sense considering it's owned by the same company that sells Jim Beams, so why the hell wouldn't they be selling Maker's Mark at the same time when they go into the bars, right? Just marketing makes sense. But that brings us to okay, so Russell's as a as a brand, you're talking about 90, you really it got released in 1998.
SPEAKER_04:99. 99. Okay.
SPEAKER_00:Okay. And then I just want to talk about this one real quick. 70-year anniversary of Jimmy Russell. He had that model released. And of course, I believe, I want to say it was released, it's an eight-year. And I want to say it was what I believe it was 101, right? It would make sense, wouldn't it? Nope. Yep, 101, 50.5. So that that was a really good that I just had a little sip of that just before, and that's a really good bottle. If anybody, when that got released, and it's right about a year ago, right now, when they released it. So then he just had another. But when you're talking about he's been at the distillery for 70, so he's he he's probably just had, was it that was his 90th birthday last year, wasn't it? So we're at 91.
SPEAKER_04:He just had his 91st birthday.
SPEAKER_00:Yep. 91. Yeah. So on his 90th birthday, they released to 70th this week. Yep.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, so I was there, believe it or not, I I was there for Jimmy's 45th, and we had a big celebration for Jimmy's 45th anniversary. Because that's, I mean, again, I've been in 47 years, okay? But 45 years is a long time. Well, and so I had six bottles. I had them had them in the laser gray. They were rare breed bottles, special bottles. It was rare breed bourbon in it, but it was special bottles laser gray for Jimmy's 45th anniversary. Only did six of them, okay? Jimmy got one, I think a couple top management got one, and a couple people in the plan got one, but I got one of the six in my collection. And then when his 50th came around, we had a big actually we celebrated at our Christmas party. I always threw a big Christmas party for for our salaried staff and their spouses and significant others. And Ernie Fletcher was governor of Kentucky then. And Ernie and his wife came to our Christmas party to recognize Jimmy for his 50 years. But I also had, you know, Jerry Dalton and Jim Brutledge and all the master distillers, Elmer TV, all the master distillers from all the other distilleries were there as well to celebrate with us. So it was a fun night and a special night for Jimmy. And again, I I thank the world of him, thank him like a brother, and uh uh, you know, he's uh he deserves the recognition, such a great guy.
SPEAKER_05:Yeah, and it's I I gotta ask, I gotta ask you since you're talking about those those special times. Is there any kind of special story that you have with Jimmy that you'd like to tell us? I I've got a bunch. I've shared it with you guys before, but yeah, yeah, you shared you shared a few of them.
SPEAKER_04:So I I got it, yeah. The one that just comes to mind is the guy in the Burton's one. You know, the Bourbon Festival before Randy Frass and his crew got involved, you know, it was it got to be where it was a week long. We started on Wednesday and then end till late Sunday. And on Saturday, we always had the black tide event. It was a nice gala. And it started out, you know, all the distilleries had a booth in this big big hall, big room. And people would come in for the price admission, they could taste any bourbon that was made. Because back then it was only about eight big distilleries, eight distilleries in total.
unknown:Yeah.
SPEAKER_04:We've been of one or two other smaller brands. I I know Van Winkle didn't have a distillery, but they were there as well. But uh Julian Van Winkle was always there. So, anyhow, I can't remember it was 99 or 2000, but it was when Buffalo Trace first came out, okay? And Mark Brown is a good friend of mine and CEO of Sazer Akos, Buffalo Trace. He changed Ancient Age distillery into Buffalo Trace. They changed the name. They came out with this Buffalo Trace bourbon. Well, that year, they actually had they hosted the VIP media party, you know, press party, which is always on Friday of the bourbon festival week. And I was getting away late, so I got over there in time, and Mark Brown was up on the podium talking. I walk in, and they had tables around, they were serving bourbon. So I walk up and I said, Well, I'm gonna try some of this Buffalo Trace. So I ordered a blank hair of it or a little glass of it, you know. And and I look over Jimmy and he saw what they poured. Jimmy and Geretta were standing over off the side. And Jimmy looks at me and he goes, Did this start looking shakes and goes? I'm like, what? What are you talking about? And so I sniffed it. And and I look over Jimmy and he just goes. Oh my god. And then I tasted. I said, oh my god, it was the most musty whiskey you've ever tasted. Again, not throwing stones because they've done a great job of drinking the background. But when they first came out the market, it was the mustiest whiskey you've ever tasted. Well, I mean, that corn must have been moldy for months or whatever. I mean, they had some flooding where they actually floated barrels out of the rick house from the floods of the uh Kentucky River, and so maybe it was the barrels that were starting to flood, or it was just the bad, bad drainage, but it was nasty. So that was on Friday. Saturday, we're all set up and we're we're getting ready before they open the doors and let everybody in. We're setting up our booths. And Jimmy and I are in our tuxedos and and uh wild turkey. We were sitting right here. We had Jim Beam was right next to us. And Jim Beam's booth was kind of a mock-up of uh of Booker's front porch. You know, the big column, white columns, and the rocking chairs. And and uh Booker and Dred were sitting in the rocker chairs, okay? And Jimmy kind of nudges me with his elbow and says, Hey Greg, says, Come with me. Okay, so we walk over straight across the room and he gets a sample of this buffalo trace. And then he walks back and says, Come on. And so and he'd love to pick and tease, okay? And he and Booker would go back and forth. And so he said, Hey Booker, he said, Did you try this new bourbon yet? And Booker goes, No, don't believe I have Russell. What is that? So I saw this new Buffalo Trace y ought to try it. Okay. Well, he had to know Booker. Booker didn't nose or sip, he just threw it back. Okay. Well, Jimmy handed him this little glass of this this buffalo trace, and Booker threw it back, and his eyes got bigger saucers, and he goes, and he just spit it out all over the floor. Oh my god. Damn you, Russell, you trying to kill me. And I oh my god, I was laughing so hard. So anyway, but there's so many stories like that with Elmer TV and and uh and Barker Bame. And Jim Jimmy was a prankster. He loved picking teas and tell jokes, but just a uh just a true true gentleman. He really was.
SPEAKER_05:He just starts ragging Jeff and what the hell is that? He was ragging me for that shirt. When when we go up and Jeff shakes his head and what the hell is that? Who who is that? Why are you wearing that shirt over here? I mean, and and Jeff is just just you know, he's just like almost, you know, embarrassed and just like just trying to explain something, and then he's like, Oh, just give me a hell boy.
SPEAKER_00:He goes, I know, I know Walter.
SPEAKER_05:He goes, I know Walter, and I'm like, yeah, then he's like, I know Walter, he says, Yeah, I've known Walter for a while, and you know, we're friends, it's all right. But he had he had Jeff source, but then he just busted out laughing and all that, yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Well, if you remember, you remember that, Greg. He he you messaged, you texted him and included me on the text. And I'm just like, seriously, he's including me on the text with Jimmy Russell. I got you mean I have his number. I never I would never do anything. But then he's like, but he didn't really respond. You know what I mean? You you told him this is Jeff Mueller, he's gonna be there, whatever. So I didn't 100% expect that he was gonna be there. But when I we walked in, I'm like, holy crap! And then he's like, We've been waiting for you.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, wait, no, he didn't respond. I I knew if Jimmy could be there, he'd be there. He's such a dear friend, he's always been great to me, and I'm very thankful for the time we got to work together. And and you know, God bless in in Geravetta. There, they're some of the most down-to-earth people you ever want to meet, and uh.
SPEAKER_00:Wonderful people.
SPEAKER_04:My life's been blessed by himself.
SPEAKER_00:It's amazing.
SPEAKER_05:Uh she is really a sweetheart, I'm telling you. It was just a pleasure, pleasure to meet both of them, and and and especially her too. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Right. And then, you know, he just goes out in that in the gift shop regularly at in it's like at his age, it's just like it's amazing what he's doing. He just lives his days and he fulfills them with uh the bourbon drinkers that are his friends, you know. Everybody, you know, he is he's definitely that he has evolved into that uh the complete icon, right? Yeah.
SPEAKER_05:He is yeah, he is definitely an icon in the industry.
SPEAKER_00:But you know, now to hear the story with the complete background, like with me understanding, I mean, I I never realized, I knew you worked there. I didn't realize that you were you were sending Jimmy to the the the warehouse to get samples for you, you know what I mean, so you could taste them together. I had no idea that's where you were, Greg. Actually, actually, now I feel less worthy of knowing you. I'm not worthy, I'm not worthy. But, anyways, that's that's that that's an amazing story. So let's let's talk about when did you leave wild turkey? What year?
SPEAKER_04:It's 2008. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:So technically, this 15 came out two years ago. I was their first 15. And if you think about that, that puts us at 2023 minus 15. Isn't that 2008?
SPEAKER_04:It is 2008. I don't know if that was some of the stuff that uh you know I was still involved with or not, quite honestly. You know, we we had broken ground for the new distillery because we were still making it at the old distillery that overlooked the bridge there, the high road bridge. So, but yeah, I I couldn't tell you. You know, is that Camp Nelson or does it really say on where it was aged?
SPEAKER_00:Does it say where it's aged? I don't know. Let's let's take a look at that bottle.
SPEAKER_05:No, probably doesn't, but uh let's see. This is actually says a limited release in 2024.
SPEAKER_00:All right, 2024. That would be 2009.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, it's probably after I left. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
unknown:Yeah.
SPEAKER_04:It was up in Maine 2009.
unknown:Okay.
SPEAKER_00:Okay, it's 15 years, uh yeah. Who knows though?
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, we you know, you you saw I saw your your your DSP 67 there. Uh Martin, but you know, they have actually three DSPs there in Kentucky. They have one over at McBrayer. McBrayer are the warehouses straight across the street from from Fort Roses. They've been to Fort Rose Distillery, Rome's warehouse. Those are Wild Turkey's warehouses.
SPEAKER_00:Okay.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, we used to have five there. I think now we just got the three, or they got the three. And then Camp Nelson is just south of Lexington and Nicholasville, Kentucky. Kind of on the shores of high shores of of uh Kentucky River, and it's there's six warehouses down there.
SPEAKER_05:So total I have a single rick house from Camp Nelson F.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah. That's a that's a great maturing warehouse complex. It sits extremely high elevation-wise in Kentucky. Again, if you go off the property not too far, it goes straight down a couple hundred feet, just like distillery does here to the Kentucky River. So the the Wild Turkey Distillery is about 300 feet above the Kentucky River. And so, God forbid it ever gets flooded. Oh, yeah. Those warehouses, too. And there's so much great wind that comes through that high elevation to those warehouses that the the uh maturation is just phenomenal.
SPEAKER_00:Oh wow. That bridge where they bungee jump yearly is amazing, you know, right there on the property. So that's that's really cool.
SPEAKER_04:It's not fun when it's before they bungee jumped. That's yeah.
SPEAKER_00:All right, so now they have a Russell six-year. Initially, when it was init when it was released, it was as a 10-year, correct?
SPEAKER_04:Was that the rye or is that bourbon?
SPEAKER_00:They make bourbon six-year. You can you can get it off the shelf all day long.
SPEAKER_04:Okay, I've never had it. We came out, we had just one skew. It was the Russell's Russell's reserve was a 10-year-old bourbon.
SPEAKER_00:Okay, yeah, they do have Russell's 10, six and 10. I I saw it on the shelf just this past weekend when I did my bourbon hunting video. It was it was out there, and that's really kind of cool. But let's let's talk as this is going on. Russell's 13 was released a while back in that first batch, which was unbelievable. It it in my opinion, it's one of the so one of the things that Turkey, WoW Turkey does in their rare breed and the Russell's reserve is they get that caramel across. Now, a lot of their other stuff has that bourbon flavor. I like to call it bourbon flavor. It's the smell of the barrel's age. And when you walk into Rick's house, you can smell. That whiskey aging. And there's not, you don't usually smell a lot of caramel when you walk into Rick House. You smell that that bourbon flavor that that that I call, you know, but so but oaky. It's got the oak and the whiskey flavor going. But I always feel that in Kentucky, when you get into these aging areas, that caramel of the barrel, of how they do their chars, that caramelized, you know, the wood sugars in there, right in that thing, and you really can pull that out because of the heat that you're using, you know, that you use. It's like a perfect aging thing. That Russell's 13 just delivered with that caramel. Now, this Russell's 15, which is that I have from 2024, and I don't know, is yours from 2024 or is that a 2025 release, Greg?
SPEAKER_04:Probably a 2025, you know. Where's it down here?
SPEAKER_00:It says it to the right of the 15. Limited release 2024. See that 15?
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, 2024. That mine's going down. Okay, so we all have the release.
SPEAKER_00:So so the when I first opened the 15, I still like the 13. But the 15's good.
SPEAKER_04:I wholeheartedly agree.
SPEAKER_00:There's a there was an okey, but right now, after this being open for a year, you know, because Walker kindly was able to obtain this and let and shared this with me. And this, you know, and I think that I'm really smelling a lot of caramel. So let's let's uh let's let's uh give this barrel bottle breakdown.
SPEAKER_04:You wanna you wanna help us break it down? I can, but I'll let you guys actually do the do the dump bumps and the bangs and whatever. I you know to to your point, Jeff. I uh I was doing a a whiskey dinner here a couple years ago down at Gator Club in Sarah, Sarasota, Florida. And great night, had fun. And it came up, Russell, somebody mentioned it, and and the fact that I created the brand. Anyhow, later on that evening, after the event, we were sitting there and one guy says, Have you tried the 13-year-old Russell ship? I said, You know, I have not. I wanted to, I just haven't had the opportunity. So he brought me a blank carrot of it. And oh, like you said, I mean, oh my God, it's in my top five of all. I mean, it was so good. The caramel, vanilla bomb, which is just spot on. And you're right, the 15 for my palate, I think yolks start to overtake the profile and kind of takes away from the caramel and it's still there. But I mean, the 13 to me just shine.
SPEAKER_00:So so also I agree with you wholeheartedly. I agree with that up until this point. I'm I'm hoping that the nose that I'm getting off after it's sat, because we all know what happens when when a bourbon oxidizes in the bottle, if it's there's certain aspects of tannins and and some of the more stringent flavors and and and aromas are released, and it basically then you're left with a little bit more. So I found that if it's if it some bourbons, like if it's a 20-year or whatever, they're and and it's like some of them, they don't age really well. They they stay the same in the in the bottle, but there's some bourbons that you know, and I find them like to be the mid-range bourbons that if you let them because I let a lot of bourbon sit. I don't know what to tell you. You open up the bottle, you do the do the tasting, and if I was drinking all these bottles, you've been down here, Greg. There would I don't think I'd still be here right now. I would probably be they would have buried me, you know, if I'm trying to drink all this bourbon.
SPEAKER_05:But I'm living proof that you gotta let bourbon sit. You can't drink all this stuff. You know it's it's more for a show, but not only that, but I get to taste all these, but also too, I invite anybody and everybody that anytime they come by my house, no matter what bottle is sitting up there, if you want a pour of it, you're more than welcome to try it and have a pour and and and try it to see what you think about it. And that that's what that's what that my background is for. Like I say, it's not for me because I wouldn't be here today if I attempted to drink all that stuff up there.
SPEAKER_00:All right, let's do this quick. Old Louisville Whiskey Company's barrel bottle breakdown. Check out Amin there in Louisville, Kentucky. And then the the our breakdowns is four categories.
SPEAKER_05:We have the nose, the body, the taste, and the finish. Nose and body, you can give uh four barrel bottle breakdowns. Knocks on the barrel, yeah, and the taste and the finish because we find those to be more prevalent in the way the bourbon taste and feels. You can give up to five knocks on it. But if there is one category that you feel that is exceptional in that category, you can get it, give it, but um pum.
SPEAKER_00:There you go. All right, so I'm gonna go first. I've been nosing this for a little bit. The nose to me on this one has improved. I get a burnt caramel a little bit, but the but the burnt caramel toffee flavor on the nose after this time. This I don't remember it being this strong, but it's it's it's it's it's it's it's awesome. So I'm gonna give that nose a four.
SPEAKER_05:I gotta agree with you like the the burnt the burnt caramel sort of toffee on it. Yep, and I'm also getting I'm getting a little bit of that oak oakiness to it too.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, there's just a little bit, but not too much. Yeah, no, I don't know what's gonna be when it comes to taste.
SPEAKER_05:But I'm getting just a little bit of the banal off of it, too.
SPEAKER_00:So this comes in at 117.2 proof, which is a high proof for a while. You know, Jimmy thought that 101 was like the perfect proof, correct?
SPEAKER_04:Oh, absolutely. Yeah, it was Jimmy's Jimmy's jab.
SPEAKER_05:Yep.
SPEAKER_00:All right. What are you gonna give it?
SPEAKER_05:I'll really I really yeah, I really like the nose on this, and and what the aromas that I'm getting off of. I'm gonna have to give it a 4-2.
SPEAKER_00:Here we go. Body is super nice. I mean, it's 117 proof in the glass. It coats the glass, the legs are super long. It sticks for a while. I mean, the viscosity of this is anytime it just sticks and sticks and sticks, and then it kind of starts forming that that that those legs on the on the the most extreme part of the glen, and then they're they're thick running in. It's fantastic that way.
SPEAKER_05:It takes forever for them to develop.
SPEAKER_00:Delivers on the mouthful. What are you gonna do for the what you what are you giving it for the I'm gonna I I'm gonna give it a four. For the body?
SPEAKER_05:Yeah, it's got a great body to it. Very nice thickness, great mouth feel, it's hitting all the sides, everything that I I like to taste in a bourbon.
SPEAKER_00:So, Greg, not that you're giving any opinion on it. My question is, what do you look at as the body? How do you judge your body when you're tasting something?
SPEAKER_04:Well, the term full body comes to mind, okay? When I say full body, I mean it's it's robust in the complexity of flavors, okay? For me, and again, I'm not rating, it's right, I I but I think you know, the nose, man, I picked up a lot of wood on on the taste, same thing. I I get a lot of wood on it, but the caramel, the vanilla notes that I know the brand for, that I originally you know knew the brand for, shine a little bit. They're just they're kind of over masked a little bit by the overopass. And that's why I was saying earlier, I think the 13-year-old was a sweet spot. You know, Jimmy, Jimmy would always say he he doesn't like bourbon unless it's you know eight to ten years old as his his sweet spot. That a lot of that depends on the type of maturation warehouse it was aged in and the location of the maturation warehouse it was aged in. And so that can play a huge role, and the barrel itself can play a huge role. So for full bodiness, again, I think it's it's got a lot of lot of a lot of chew to it, if you know that term. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00:So uh, but now you do include a little bit of the taste as far as the body, like like absolutely.
SPEAKER_04:I think you have to okay.
SPEAKER_00:So on this on this one here, as far as like flavor and being full body, it's there, but it seems like there's a little bit of the oakiness that adds a sharp, almost like a peppery, what how it lights up your what what it's lighting up in your in the taste budge in your mouth, it's kind of like it's like it's like tingling them, you know, like with a sharpness that it's not necessary. The body is big, but there's a so I would I would rate this body a three because of that with that little bit of oaky pepper net pepper aspect of it, it's too peppery for me. So when I'm doing that, it's almost like it's not quite painful, but it starts, it's almost like it's painful. So I'll give it a three. All right, for taste, you're right. The caramel. I always, when I'm drinking or tasting whiskey, I like to pool it in the front of my mouth and just kind of get my tongue the tip of my tongue, because that's where all the sweet sensors are. And where you taste sweet at the tip of your tongue, and it's caramely and it's rich and it's really good, but as soon as you let that go and it goes towards the the rest of your palate and down and you swallow it, it basically that's where the oak comes through, and it's just a tad too much for me. So uh five, I'm gonna say I enjoy this. Uh, don't get me wrong, there's a lot of people who love that oaky flavor. That's that's why you put 15 out because palettes are different. People, there are some people that would this this would be like their absolute bomb. It's not too sweet. Where like if you don't, if you're drinking bourbon and you're not a big sugar fan, 13 is uh is a dessert. I mean, it almost tastes like caramel sauce that you pour over ice cream, you know. So, but the 15, it takes that away and adds that little bit of oakiness. So, if like you're a big fan of oaky Chardonnay, I think you would absolutely love this. But me, on the other hand, I'm gonna put it as far as taste goes, this drops. Let me try again. Oh, I have to drink more whiskey.
SPEAKER_05:Oh, imagine that.
SPEAKER_00:Um, I'm gonna give the yeah, I'm gonna on a whiskey podcast. There's enough, there's enough caramel in there to give it a four out of five. I was close to giving it a three, but it it's I can't. This last sip, there was enough caramel in there.
SPEAKER_05:I totally agree with you. When you start tasting this, at first you'll get that little bit of caramelization that you're tasting. And a little bit of sweetness, not quite quite as much as what, like you were saying, in the 13 year. But then once you I swallow this and it goes past that time, then I start getting that oakiness, that little bit of bitterness, and maybe even like a cigar cigar box taste to it. And that sort of takes away from what I'm wanting to initially taste, thinking that I'm I'm gonna taste. And so excuse me. I actually I was thinking I'm torn because I I kind of like it, but not near, you know, I'm torn. So I'm gonna have I'm gonna have to give the taste actually a three. Because it's not complex to me. It's I'm not getting all the the sugary flavors that I would think that I would be getting out of this, and because that oakiness and that bitterness of the tannins and the leatherness that or cigar cigar box taste that I'm getting, that's that's what's overwhelming everything.
SPEAKER_04:And so you know it's hard because you you guys have tasted the 10-year-old and understand the the sweetness and the caramel vanilla flavors about that. Then you've tasted the 13-year-old. So after compare it to the 15, you're right. You you get the full gamut of of you know what's out of that barrel the longer it sits. And and our palates are so aligned, Bart. I just it's amazing.
SPEAKER_00:Well, well, John Ritt, who's who's watching tonight, he says that this year's Russell's reserve 13 is a bit uh a bit of heat, but yeah, sweet and caramel. But uh at first year of Russell's 13 was unbelievable. The second year was still pretty good, and then last year's uh 13, I thought was a little bit, it it didn't match up to what the first couple releases are. And so I'm always hoping every year that a release comes, you know, they're they're trying to keep the profile, but at when you're dealing with how whiskey ages and you're at the 13 year, and the the the the summers in Kentucky have been so hot lately that you know that also can add a little take a little bit of that sweetness, you know, maybe it's 11 year where it's peaking now, you know, you never know. But but go ahead.
SPEAKER_05:That also, too, is like the this year's Russell's reserve is the highest proof ever. 13. Okay, this is bat six, and it is at the proof of uh my glasses drogging up or something. Oh, it's uh 123.8.
SPEAKER_00:Well, that's delivering for Russell's. I mean, for for wild turkey. I mean, they've been this is 117. So, real quick now.
SPEAKER_05:Yeah, and see, like uh last year's or or batch, actually, this is batch three. Batch three is 114.8 proof.
SPEAKER_00:Right. So so now we get to the finish, which I think is for me is the the worst part of it because it leaves me with nothing but the tobacco, the wood, the flavors, those bitter flavors. It's a bitter finish. There's no sweetness to it all, and uh that's what I'm always looking for. If like if I went upstairs without drinking something else, I wouldn't be happy. Put it that way. And so I'm gonna give the finish a three for this. And you know, the 15 is supposed to deliver, and it's not a criticism of whatever. I understand people like these type of finishes, but when I'm deal dealing with older whiskey, I want the finish to be something that's super unique, where it's really long, and all of a sudden a vanilla pops in 25 seconds later, and then maybe there's a little bit of mint or whatever, but this is just stays wood.
SPEAKER_04:So you know, the original Russell, the original Kenyon Russell that we came out with. That was which was so impressive, I think, mostly about about that particular batch, the first batch ever. I mean, the finish was just it it never ended. It was just a never-ending story. Holy cow. They were just the caramel of vanilla just lingered for so, so long. And you're right, I I agree with you. It just just kind of just ends, boom. And it's got that bitterness and and kind of dry mouth to it.
SPEAKER_00:Right. And that's not how you want that, you know. Usually it's just like you want something kind of like, oh, I I'm tasting, uh you go, uh, you know, you have a pleasant taste, and it's just too too oaky, and that's where it really falls. And what are you thinking, Nash?
SPEAKER_05:I I totally agree. And to me, also on the finish of this, not only do you lose all the sweetness and the flavors go away so quickly, but uh then once you know, once you're left with that that oaky sort of cigar box taste, but it goes away quick. I mean, there's not very much much of a hug. You know, it's to me, it's not even hardly a medium hug to it, even for being what 117. Yeah. Yeah, for being 117 proof. I mean, there's really not much of a hug. It goes away so quick. And so that's I gotta give it a three, two.
SPEAKER_00:All right. So I gave it a 14 and you gave it a 14. No, you gave it a 15.
SPEAKER_05:You give you no, I gave it four, four, three, and three.
SPEAKER_00:And I gave it four, three, four, three, four, three. Okay, so there you go. 14 out of 18. Not a I mean, I'm not gonna sit here and tell you this is bad bourbon. I drink this any day. But but it's not it's a 15 year old. After the 13, you're just hoping the the caramel gets better, and it didn't. So the last thing I'd like to do before I let you go, Greg, is do you have what do you have the rare breed? No. Oh, all right. So, Nash, you got rare breeds sitting there, right? Yeah, all right.
SPEAKER_05:Let's just do a toast because this this actually I gotta put I gotta pull one off of uh right from back here because I'm not gonna open this bottle that uh Jimmy signed.
SPEAKER_00:No, I opened this a couple days uh like when I got it the other day and had to have a sip.
SPEAKER_05:This one that's been open for about a year now. That is, and I sipped a little bit earlier.
SPEAKER_00:And I'm just gonna tell you, and I'm sure you were a part of just keeping this to what it was, Greg. Rare breed is the first bourbon that ever I was in New York City, met a friend, and I had it, and I had it on the rocks at, you know, there's there's a park in New York City with a restaurant. It's called, it starts with a tea. And and we ate, we were eating there with my wife's uncle, and I ordered this on the rocks, and it was the first bourbon that when I tasted it, like I just took a sip where it made me think about it and turn my head to go, how is that bourbon? Now, the second bourbon that ever did that was when we were at Bardstown Bourbon Company, and you let me taste that 15-year-old. That was that was on the same level or above this level. But when it comes to like this is this was the affirmation that how much I loved Booker's is what I went after first. And I just love the fact that you got to taste what Booker was tasting, uncut, unfiltered, right into the bottle. And you know, those batches at barrel strength. And then rare breed was right right there where I'm like, oh, I must be a barrel strength guy.
SPEAKER_04:So you know the formulation for a rare breed? No, no, I don't know if it still is today, but when it it started and when I was involved with it, because we were in batch one and batch two back then. 1% 12-year-old, 90% eight-year-old, and 90% six-year-old. So it was a combination of ages, but you're right, a barrel proof back then it was about, I don't know, 100 108-proof, 100, yeah, 107, 108-proof, but it was it was this one I'm drinking is 116.8. Well, they they increased the entrance proof. Uh I told you earlier that I was told by Terry Jackyat that you know don't change anything. Uh, you know, and and when when after Bruno Ricard and Dyajobot Seagrams and some of the seagrams guys came into the play, Terry Jackyat was no longer working there, and and so they decided to increase the entrance proof to lower the the dogs. So when we used to put everything in at 110 proof, and they went up to 115, I think it's up to 120 now. I don't know.
SPEAKER_05:Okay, and I also know this this got a number four char on the barrel.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, yeah. We uh wild turkey specs have always had a number four char. Okay, yeah.
SPEAKER_05:This I'm gonna 16.8, right? No, mine's uh 116.8.
SPEAKER_00:116.8, yeah. Yeah, 58.4.
SPEAKER_04:Does it have a batch number on there? Because it kept what I was looking for, batch one, and I didn't see the batch. But they yeah, they they they again that was just uh part of the label.
SPEAKER_00:So so on uh Jimmy Russell wouldn't this one says 2 2013. Kentucky Strait. I don't know why it's written 2030, 2013. And then this one, they're both 116 point, they're both exactly the same proof. So they're putting it out at 116.8 proof the last couple years, last three years, you know, because this this one's from 20, this one just came off the shelf a couple days ago, and this is the one that was selling in the in the gift shop for Jimmy.
SPEAKER_04:So their entry is somewhere around 115 to 120 proof. We used to buy or barrel everything at 100 110.
SPEAKER_05:Yeah, because yeah, the one uh I got from that's signed by Jimmy a couple years ago is 116.82.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, yeah. Does it say 2013 on it, right down by the Kentucky Strait Bourbon Whiskey underneath Rare Breed, right to the left? Is there a little 2013?
SPEAKER_05:Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00:I wonder what that is. Do you think that's from the that was what they were releasing from the whatchall that day?
SPEAKER_05:Yeah, this was uh 2023.
SPEAKER_00:This is the store release 2023. Thank you. Yeah, not 2013, 2023.
SPEAKER_05:I I just tried to age it 10 more years, and I do remember now that that was actually a distillery release bottle that we picked up that day, and that he signed.
SPEAKER_00:Okay, so um, so the car market I I gotta ask Greg though.
SPEAKER_05:That initial year that you did the 2010 Russell's reserve. Do you still have a bottle or any part of a bottle left of that?
SPEAKER_04:I've got a couple bottles, yeah.
SPEAKER_05:There you go.
SPEAKER_04:Actually, Marn, I had the last bottle that came off the bottling line of the original Russell's.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. Well, that one obviously you're not opening.
SPEAKER_04:Oh, yeah. Oh no, no, no. That's part of my collection.
SPEAKER_00:No, I know, but do you have one that's oh that's open that you sip off of? No.
SPEAKER_05:Okay. Nope. Okay. But that that that's just good to know. I like I say, I I figured I've kind of thought you would, but just want just wanted to be sure.
SPEAKER_04:Well, hopefully the the right person come along someday, and I can afford to to uh or they can afford to uh send my kids to college. So or my grandkids to college.
SPEAKER_00:Your grandkids? Wait a second. Your kids have gone to college. Your grandkids, yeah. Well, well, if you and Susan decide to have some kids, sure. Don't go there now, be careful. No, yeah. Yeah, it's it's just like looking back. The last thing before we end this is just like looking back, someone said, Tracy said to ask, was there anything that you and and you you've kind of answered this before because you've been to many different places. And I'm sure there's you've learned all along. That's one thing that obviously I know you know, knowing you, that there's been times it's not like you completely you were driving the truck and knew exactly what you were doing specifically. But over the years, the more you drove the truck, the better you got. But you learned from a lot of trial and error, let's just say, correct?
SPEAKER_04:And it's it's one thing I cherish in in my my career is that I have been blessed, truly blessed, from and when I started this business in June of 1978 to today. I have worked with so many amazing, knowledgeable people. And you learn from again, I I I knew I didn't know anything about it. When I I left college, I said, well, I'm gonna go work for cigars. And that's great. But I just, you know plugged along, worked hard, did what I was told, but I knew when there were people around me that were knowledgeable based on their experience. And so I've said it before. That's when you turn into a sponge and you soak up as much as you can. The experience that I got to spend with Jimmy Russell was invaluable. I mean, uh just the friendship alone, you couldn't ask for better. But learning from Jimmy and all the guys. Again, the the relationship when I worked at the Cooperage and got to know Booker and Elmer Telee and Parker Bean, you know, when you're around those guys, just shut up and listen and just soak up all you can. That's it's just that simple. It really is.
SPEAKER_00:So I mean, I I you know, where where you were when you were at Chicken Cock, there that that time though had to be kind of special for you because you were able, you that's the time where you were like you were making it and you were doing the things, and you had uh all of what you had, you were able to put that into that. And that's kind of a fun thing to do. Now, you you've you've moved on, gone forward, but at the same time, that's just another check in the box, correct?
SPEAKER_04:Somewhat, you know. I you guys know I put my heart and soul into that brand and had a mission to resurrect it and bring it back. And and you know, as a kid, my parents taught me a lot of manners in life. One of the things they taught me is, you know, if you don't have anything good to say about a person uh or or something, exactly best not say hang at all. So we'll just leave it at that.
SPEAKER_00:But I mean, but it would you are able to do just that. Yep, four branches. Now, when are you gonna uh do you see foresee at four branches being able to to actually lay down whiskey again?
SPEAKER_04:Perhaps, but right now, you know, we're we're buying whiskey and I'm doing a lot of neat things. Uh we've got a very special project I'm working on right now. I can't talk about it too much because it's gonna come out in 2026.
SPEAKER_00:You'll talk about it when you come up. You'll talk about it next year when it comes out.
SPEAKER_05:That's what when it releases and you you come on the podcast, right?
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, no, but again, I I've been blessed. It's just like with four branches, guys. I'm so thankful to be connected with them. You know, it's just the stars aligned. Yep. You know, the the the good folks down at Barstown Bourbon Company connected me with these folks. And I I admire them so much. Their their military history is phenomenal. And the bourbons we're we're able to put out are really great. So, you know, my title with them is Master Distiller and Master Blender. So that's kind of what we're doing right now, kind of putting some things together and coming up with some some great products that uh that I think you know bourbers have have enjoyed and excited about what we got coming coming down the pike here in this next year.
SPEAKER_05:Hey, and and we're excited for you too, Greg. You and four branches and and the whole company. Yeah. Great guys. Great guys. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, I mean that uh that's the fact that you have the master distiller thing right there. I'm I'm cool. I'm I'm happy about that because honestly, laying down whiskey is what would you say? Is a pinnacle.
SPEAKER_05:Yeah, I mean of what is the product to be.
SPEAKER_00:Your your connection with Jimmy, right? And everybody else who laid down whiskey. Wow, that's just crazy.
SPEAKER_05:I'm just looking for something over here, and so we all poured we poured the rare breed, and I saw Greg, he poured another pour, I believe it was a 15th. Let's go ahead and do a cheers to and happy Thanksgiving to everybody. Absolutely. Thank you so much, brother. Cheers.
SPEAKER_04:Love you and appreciate so many guys appreciate you and happy Thanksgiving. Uh I'm gonna be uh deep frying a couple of turkeys tomorrow at my nephew's house with my son and a bunch of guys, and there'll be a little bit of bourbon flowing that today.
SPEAKER_05:Actually, I'll be injecting mine and brining it starting tomorrow morning, and I'll be deep frying it Thursday morning. All right, man. Cheers, man.
SPEAKER_00:All right, yeah. Thanks, thanks, Greg, for joining us so much.
SPEAKER_05:Thank you, brother.
SPEAKER_00:Thanks for being part of us.
SPEAKER_05:One uh one other thing before you go is that hopefully the first part of the year, maybe around March or so. When maybe you're not so busy. We hope. Let's uh try to get together and uh get you down to the old Seagram's building and meet with the main car.
SPEAKER_04:I'd love to see it. I mean, I my old stopping ground. You guys know it. When I started business in 1978, that was that's where I worked at that uh that old Seagram plant mobile. And I'd love to see it again. Yeah. Yeah, you can show them the tunnels.
SPEAKER_05:That's why I mentioned it, and maybe we can set something up before you get into your real busy season. Okay. We'd love to.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, that's right.
SPEAKER_05:All right.
SPEAKER_00:Love you, brother.
SPEAKER_05:Love you too, bro.
SPEAKER_00:Likewise, guys. All right, man. Cheers. Cheers. You you you gotta end it for you. Yeah. No, you ain't gotta end it. All right, well, I can end it for us because I'll just start the ending. All right, everybody, thank you. www.scotchybourbonboys.com for all Scotchyburbon Boys things. Make sure you check us out on Facebook, Instagram, YouTube, X, and TikTok, along with Apple, iHeart, and Spotify. Whether you listen or watch us, make sure you like, listen, subscribe, and leave good feedback. Also, make sure you become a member. That helps us out. And uh remember, good bourbon equals good times and good friends. Make sure you don't drink and drive, drink responsibly, and live your life uncut and unfiltered. And AI is gonna take us out.
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