Whiskey Over Politics Presidents Day Podcast

We taste presidential-labeled pours, unpack how to judge whiskey beyond politics, and dive into Dark Arts’ global wood program, pricing choices, and plans for Noble Arts. The talk moves through Lexington’s revival, industry alliances, and bourbon’s power to bring people together.

• judging whiskey on liquid quality not labels
• guest’s background, global sourcing, and neat-pour philosophy
• Noble Arts launch plans and honey-cask allocations
• festivals, YouTube creators, and small-producer formats
• pricing ethics, exotic woods, and value at $60–$100
• Mizanara as accessible flagship, proof and profile
• Lexington’s distillery district history and renewal
• Dark Arts tasting room vibe and team approach
• cooperation among brands and rising-tide mindset
• legacy building, never-sell ethos, and resilience
• vodka, highballs, and the search for a party-friendly bourbon drink
• tastings: Cinder And Smoke Ten Year, 45/47, and American 47

Become a member, support the podcast, join the Patreon, leave a five-star review on Apple and iHeart

A whiskey label can spark a fight before the cork leaves the bottle. We start there—then pour past the politics to ask the only question that matters: is the whiskey any good? Along the way, we bring in Dark Arts Whiskey House’s chief alchemist for an unfiltered look at how rare woods, real sourcing, and a clear pricing philosophy can turn crowded shelves into a playground for curious palates.

We taste through presidential-themed releases and a ten-year Cinder and Smoke, breaking down what the nose and finish reveal at approachable proofs. From Japanese Mizanara offered at a shockingly fair shelf price to honey-cask experiments bound for festival drops, this conversation opens the black box on “exotic finishes.” No Alibaba shortcuts here—just long-haul flights, fifth and sixth-generation cooperage partners, and a refusal to let scarcity morph into gouging. You’ll hear how Dark Arts keeps premium bottles accessible, why proof and mouthfeel trump hype, and what to look for when a label leans on patriotism to sell a pour.

We widen the lens to Lexington’s distillery district—once neglected, now humming—and how alliances between neighbors make a destination out of a few city blocks. There’s real talk on team building, titles, and respect in hospitality, plus a legacy stance you don’t hear often: never sell, build for generations, and let the liquid do the talking. And because whiskey should be fun, we kick around the missing link in cocktail culture: a simple, party-friendly bourbon drink that can sit next to beer and champagne without dumbing down the spirit. Highballs and herbaceous spritzers, anyone?

If you’re a bourbon nerd, a craft-leaning explorer, or just tired of marketing fog, this is your pour. Hit play, taste with us, and join the conversation—then tell us: what makes a whiskey truly “good,” and which bottle surprised you most? Subscribe, share with a friend, and drop a five-star review to keep these conversations flowing.

voice over Whiskey Thief

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Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:59

Middlewest Spirits was founded in 2008, focusing on elevating the distinct flavors of the Ohio River Valley.

SPEAKER_05 1:07

Their spirits honor their roots and better heads makers, the greenest producer in the world, and their reaction for crafted spirits from grain to glass.

SPEAKER_02 1:17

I was doing the presidential one. But tonight we're gonna do the Cinder Block 10, which they released for the inauguration in that January, and then they got the 45-47 and then the American 47. And not that I care about the politics, all right? I only care about what is it any good. You know, that's what I want to do. I want to taste them to see if they're any good, let everybody know. Do you put good quality whiskey into that, right? It wouldn't matter what. So I kind of do this anytime, whatever, whoever's the president, it doesn't matter. It's about the whiskey.

SPEAKER_05 1:57

As we discussed the other night, I had to uh man splain or femme explained to you how whiskey is politics, though. But labels aren't have nothing to do with it, though.

SPEAKER_02 2:08

Right, exactly. Whiskey is politics. There's a lot of politics that go on to as far as marketing and all that, but I'm just on this one. I just want to know if there's good whiskey in the bottle. I mean, it's just like you hope they put good whiskey. I know that I got a football from Canton, Ohio, and I'm supposed to be starting the uh the theme song. I'll just say it. I got a football from Canton, Ohio with some whiskey in it, and it really wasn't any good. It's like I'm not gonna rip on who did it, but it wasn't good whiskey. So it's like it's better just to leave it in the bottle and just have the football. Cleveland? Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 2:49

Okay.

Guest Intro And Titles

SPEAKER_02 2:50

Here we I think it's I think it was out of Canton, bottled in Canton, but because of the Hall of Fame. All right, here we go with the theme song. Oh, right, welcome back to another podcast of the Scotchy Bourbon Boys. Tiny here tonight with a special guest that's dropped in, and I gotta find you. Where did you go? All right, let's see if I can find yep, there he is.

SPEAKER_05 4:22

Let's see if you get all my titles correct, Tiny.

SPEAKER_02 4:27

Master Blender, C CEO, owner of Dark Arts Whiskey House. Whiskey, the whiskey house, right?

SPEAKER_05 4:40

Lord Colonel, Lord Colonel, Alchemist of the Blue Grass, the Bourbon Swami, MBA, BS, MBA, Young Teacher, etc. etc. for short term.

SPEAKER_02 4:54

Okay, so I got this. That's the bourbon swami sticker. That's an old one, too. Oh, yeah. Yeah. I bur only burn this candle when I need some good advice.

SPEAKER_05 5:10

Yeah, we're going old school tonight, it seems like.

SPEAKER_02 5:15

Why not? What right? I mean, we won't go that old school because you know your your ancient history isn't necessary.

SPEAKER_05 5:23

Yeah, those that's we focused on the now, tiny and the future. Well, it's like and always remember our past.

SPEAKER_02 5:32

Oh, I have a question. Are you having more fun now? That when it was uh now that it's way more fucking complicated than it was before. Yeah, because I'm the fucking boss now. When okay, so I understand, but when weren't you the boss?

SPEAKER_05 5:55

Uh well, it depends if you want to go back in the timeline when corporate America or corporate Italians took over or whatever, you know.

SPEAKER_02 6:06

Yeah, well, that that was a reason to that was like, what would you say? That was just cutting the cord. Like the cord was already out there, that just cut it.

Leaving Corporate And Building A Distillery

SPEAKER_05 6:17

Yeah, you know how it is. Sometimes you gotta get out of the womb and get the umbilical cord cut, right?

SPEAKER_02 6:24

Well, yeah, and you know, it's funny sometimes life uh you know, you know, it tells you you got you you should do it. I mean, it could you would it have was there any better time than at that point? Obviously, you're it wasn't like it left you completely reeling doing nothing.

SPEAKER_05 6:44

And it left me in an okay spot. I can't complain. Other than paying two mortgages and starting a business with no income in it for a little while, that was an interesting time of my life.

SPEAKER_02 6:55

Well uh you are definitely one that takes that's willing to jump off the mountain. Yeah, I like free gliding though, you know what I'm saying? Yeah, yeah. It's just I mean, if you ever if you've ever really met any when you meet people who are successful, they weren't 100% successful instantaneously, and there's a lot of people that were unsuccessful many times before they became extremely successful, right?

SPEAKER_05 7:28

That's why Fred refers me to as Blas Unicorn. I hope there's a unicorn breeding program out there so we can get more people in the alliance, but uh I hear those things are hard to find.

SPEAKER_02 7:44

Well, I would say I would say so. So far, you're doing a pretty good job of acquiring people to go on your journey.

SPEAKER_05 7:53

Yeah, those are more my staff and people that support us and not other people going into the unknown, if you know what I'm saying.

SPEAKER_09 8:00

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_02 8:04

Yes, I know exactly what you're saying. So, in your mind, I'm just gonna ask some fun questions. How big, how big do you actually want to go? And once let's just let's just take it and you get to those goals. Are you gonna want are you will you get bored and want to do something else?

SPEAKER_05 8:29

Ultimately, I told you the other night I'm gonna be running for something maybe someday or something like that, and then also after I get my PhD, I just want to chill and fucking teach and be left the fuck alone. That sounds fun. I gotta train the next generation of people, if that makes any sense.

SPEAKER_02 9:34

Oh, yeah, no, definitely.

SPEAKER_05 9:36

Uh you can I'm not a greedy man, I'm not seeking out global domination and trillion billion dollars. I just want to live in the trailer park and uh Key West and uh have a good time doing it.

SPEAKER_02 9:53

Yeah, yeah. I mean Key West is fantastic, fantastic place to to do that.

SPEAKER_05 10:00

And I think we got our I think that we just secured our distribution down there too. So excited for that. Gonna have to go down there for about uh 364 days and do some market work or something like that.

SPEAKER_02 10:17

Okay. So so we've we talked a little bit about the next the next big thing that's happening as far as releasing, right? And and you talked about it the last two times, the late night version of the podcast. Cut out. Oh, did oh, I cut out. But I mean, you got some really kind of cool things on on the horizon, right? I mean, and you're doing it your way, the way that you like to do it, correct? Oh, I cut out? Wait, let's see. Did I?

SPEAKER_03 10:55

Let's see.

SPEAKER_02 10:56

Alright. Oh, let's see. How about okay.

SPEAKER_03 11:00

Try this. Did it come back on?

SPEAKER_02 11:03

Are you hear me now?

SPEAKER_05 11:07

You I lost you for like the last 50 seconds or something like that.

SPEAKER_02 11:12

It seems like for some reason my freaking microphone. Sometimes I I had it, but my damn. But my my microphone must have the microphone for some reason it was it's in the charging case fully charged, and they didn't charge. So that's obvious. If it goes up, if it goes out again, let me know, because then I'll have the other one's charging now, too.

SPEAKER_05 11:40

I got them fucking Osmo, whatever's too.

SPEAKER_02 11:42

No, when you when I went out, you I could hear you. You don't even have to give me hand signals. You didn't go out. I heard you. You're like, I can't hear you. Anyways, all right. So uh yeah, so uh, you know, going forward, while you know, if for somebody who hasn't experienced dark arts and you know, the whiskey house and everything that you're doing, give everybody a little bit of an update about where you're at and kind of how you like, explain how you like your whiskey and your wine and your food. You know, just give everybody that look at that.

Growth, Goals, And Teaching The Next Gen

SPEAKER_05 12:21

First of all, I drink my whiskey neat with no ice. I travel the world buying exotic wood, wine, spirits, barrels, and bring them back to Kentucky and ate my whiskey and then I do ecological programs with apiaries, indigenous tribes, and things around the world, and bring that back into my whiskeys, and my whiskeys tell a story. I think that makes any sense. And um, if you if you want to put Diet Coke or Bago or Insure in my whiskey, I I don't give a shit how you drink it. Uh just make sure you uh buy a couple bottles uh for the cause.

SPEAKER_02 13:02

Well, you have some you have some bottles where you could actually do that. Now you have some bottles that you probably shouldn't do that, but you still can. I mean it's not like whatever.

SPEAKER_05 13:14

If you want a thousand dollar whiskey Alexander something with some buff turkey in there, I I can mix it up with you, but the blender's always broke at the whiskey house, so don't expect anything for a frozen drink. You don't have a fucking blender FYI.

SPEAKER_02 13:31

All you have to do is walk in there. I don't know too many places that have blenders. I know some bars with some blenders, but you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_05 13:43

When I bartended the frozen margarita, the virgin uh strawberry daiquiri came through, the blender was always broken.

SPEAKER_02 13:53

Yeah, yeah. The blend. I would tell you, I mean, I'm not I'm just not I'll say that I don't mind the bartender work in the service industry, Tiny. Yeah, I I my my bartending experience, you know, I'm old, so it was when I was younger, I would bartend Greek weddings and Italian weddings in Milwaukee. What?

SPEAKER_05 14:20

They break the plates at the Greek ones.

SPEAKER_02 14:23

Yeah, and they they yeah, all these they they they had people they got together, did the whole circle thing. Yeah, they this was um in Milwaukee. There, the Greek where I was doing it, my friend would do it at the hotel that they all did it, and where it was like, and and it was sometimes it was a cash bar, but a lot of times it wasn't a cash bar, and it was just you know, so I I did do some service type things, it was very interesting. I loved it because of the people. I just that's one thing that I'm a watcher, I pay attention to a lot of things, I'm always watching. I I enjoy observing and seeing how all the people at you know, especially in the bourbon industry or the you know the industry itself, that is very interesting to me. You know, I don't usually like to observe too much anymore while I'm driving or anything like that because I watch too much too many people doing too many stupid things. I could tell you, Macaulay, that what's weird about it at this point, I never thought that, but after I I'm at I'm 61, right? And every year you're that fucking old. I thought you were 47 the other night. Yeah. Nope, 61. And I could tell you can you can you cash the social security checks and spend them at dark arts yet, or what's up? Not quite. I'm gonna wait till I'm 65 and then I'll be there all the time.

SPEAKER_05 16:07

Um we can endorse them and we'll just deposit them for you if you want me to.

SPEAKER_02 16:15

What it does though is you get to a point where the the you do things in seasons, and there's things to do, and there's certain things, and you start getting to the point where you've done the same fun things so many different times that you start looking for really different things to do because you've done those things when you do it, the you know, you go, for instance, we're gonna go to New Orleans and this will be the second time, but if you do this another five years and you go four more, it's just like when the first there's nothing better than the first time you go to New Orleans for the New Orleans Bourbon Festival, you know, and then afterwards, and then you kind of it's good to go a couple more times because you then know the lay of the land, but it's gotten to the point with a lot of stuff, it's just like what am I gonna do different?

SPEAKER_05 17:10

Even I'm just stick just stick with me, brother. I'll show you uh some different shit different every time.

SPEAKER_02 17:18

Alright.

SPEAKER_05 17:18

So New Orleans is my city, right? What? You know New Orleans is my city, right?

SPEAKER_02 17:26

Yeah, I could tell New Orleans was your city the last time I was there with you. I definitely could.

SPEAKER_05 17:32

We need to stay live on camera.

SPEAKER_02 17:35

What? I'm not saying anything to make it bad for you.

SPEAKER_05 17:40

Yeah, yeah, I'm just saying uh New Orleans is uh we got that city on a lot and block. Remember we're gonna find us some AR-15s in the shitter down there from ice and all the the gator ride and the dinner and all the shit that I told you the other night.

SPEAKER_02 18:02

Uh that should be fun. I'm ready.

SPEAKER_05 18:08

Yeah, me too, brother.

SPEAKER_02 18:10

Yeah. Alright, so that same question that I was asking you when my mic went dead. You know, what what what is what's what's the big things you got coming that you can talk about?

New Releases: Noble Arts And Honey Casks

SPEAKER_05 18:28

Oh, I I don't remember if I told you about Noble Arts, our new company that we're coming out, that we're doing like absent gen tomorrow, experimental whiskies, all that, but we uh have a beautiful still getting custom fabricated right now. I'm actually working, as I'm talking to you, I'm working on the uh the honey allocation for the country right now because we only did eight experimental casks, and then we did uh one small batch, but New Orleans Bourbon Festival is gonna get one cask or part of one or something like that. I'm still crunching the numbers. As I'm looking at my spreadsheet, that was actually my secret honey agent above turkey barrel, and then we're gonna be releasing some of the small batch down there in the whiskey house and at KBF, and then we've got bruisal fest coming up. I think there's a sold-out session, I think there's a second session that's coming, and then I think they're coming back again sometime in the summer. I was not a part of those calls or the planning, but have you met him? No, it's funny because I never met him. I met his assistant publicist manager, whatever, and he's like, TJ wants you to sign a bottle for him, and I was like, Alright. I find it to my Menti TJ best regards or some shit like that.

SPEAKER_02 19:54

Yeah, I'll be well talk at one point off, but I'll be interested in what you think. He came up here, there was a whiskey festival in Canton, Ohio, believe it or not. It's a little whiskey tasting festival they have over at the Aviator Museum. And he came up, and then the Jervasi, who has got a little still, and Bill Hockett used to run it, and his stuff's just releasing. And then right now, Shay Pridmore, who used to be at Cincinnati or Sycamore Distillery, he's up here doing it, and they do a little distillers club, and they invited Bruzel over there, so I got a little bit of one-on-one time. Although, you know, it's like my name's Tiny, and he's a big boy. He makes me look little. It's a big man. Anyways, he does a good job on YouTube. I I will give you that. Um, yeah, Forbes named him as influential man in whiskey. I I would agree, he's very influential. Uh, you know, definitely it's interesting when you meet him. I would say the meeting wasn't anything that I thought already based off of how you he goes about doing things. He's uh it's a lot different, you know, personally. But he's I I you know how how he does things and where he goes and what he goes around and does, it's you know, he really he really nailed it.

SPEAKER_05 21:31

So seems like a great guy. Um we'll be going down to Brusselfest in uh Georgia as well. So super, super pumped for that.

SPEAKER_02 21:41

So when you go, what's what it what what is the festival format? He's got like a lot, is it like a lot of dis I have no idea?

SPEAKER_05 21:48

I have no idea. I've never been before. So and then it seems like smart we're smaller, chill grassroots effort, if that makes any sense. I'm pretty sure it's mainly crap brands or boutique or small producers. I hate the term crap because it's there's so much sh uh shitty crap whiskey out there, so the crap turns into craft, if that makes sense.

Festivals, Bruzel, And Craft Talk

SPEAKER_02 22:14

Yeah, but I understand what you're saying, but at the same time, there's some really good craft, and so I I I mean, isn't there there's there's all you know the funny thing is is that there's this balance in the world, and if everything was good, then what would we have in relationship? Then it wouldn't be good, it would be the good would be bad, and then it'd be great. You know what it you know, there's always that balance. You need bad to be good. Good to have something traditions, it's called the yin and the yang.

SPEAKER_05 22:53

Yep, the little bit of energy and other traditions is called the yin yang twins, and you know, to the window, to the walls, and let that sweat drip down my balls.

SPEAKER_02 23:02

I get it, I get the yin yang twins because so it it's sometimes it, you know, it's funny because that it's I just believe it's it's 50-50, you know, when it comes to negativity and negative and positive. And you know, we just had that polar polarity flip that just happened, right? In on the earth. And realistically, yes, it when you talk to somebody, it's like, yeah, it's 50 50, but when you go worldwide, you can be in an area where you have either a lot of good or a lot of bad because. It's based off of the whole universe, right?

SPEAKER_05 23:40

I think you probably know what a mantra is think globally, act locally.

SPEAKER_02 23:48

Yeah, it's it's yeah, you have to. If you think big, there's there's no doubt about it. It's just kind of you just have to, you know, and then you know, there's there's certain things that happen that you don't expect to happen, and whole, and usually when as you know, as you keep going forward, you're probably you've been so good at you're good at this, and I know you knew that you could do this, but it's like anything else. The demand starts when when it goes and the demand starts, it's not it's not an easy thing to manage, right?

SPEAKER_05 24:26

You have to keep keep your don't worry, me and my don't worry, me and my business partner MBA graduates, he went to a school card called something up there in the northeast called Harvard or Havart or something. Good. And then I went to Northern Kentucky University online, so uh don't worry about our supply chain.

SPEAKER_02 24:45

No, I'm not I'm not worried. I know that you know what you have to do, but what I'm saying is it's just like how you manage how you manage it, you know, there's a lot of people who they're not ready for it.

SPEAKER_05 25:02

And you on the other hand, let's just say tiny, I'm a poor man that's struggling to feed his cats because I have to keep reinvesting.

SPEAKER_02 25:12

Yeah, I can understand that. But but you keep reinvesting and that's all part of it. It's just all part of it, and you keep going. How many how many cats do you have?

SPEAKER_05 25:26

But one's a Sphinx, though, and he's high maintenance like I am.

SPEAKER_04 25:29

Oh god.

SPEAKER_05 25:31

You might need to be more high maintenance than me. I wasn't imaginable, but that's my son, essentially.

SPEAKER_02 25:39

Did you did you know they were that high maintenance when you got him?

SPEAKER_05 25:44

Well, I I I heard that and then I created a monster just like you, so I'm pretty high maintenance, eh? Yeah, well, we like we're particular boys.

SPEAKER_02 26:01

Anyways, that's that's really cool, but I understand why you're why you're doing it, because honestly, if it wasn't I mean, it's awesome what's happening. The state of Ohio definitely so for a while there there was stuff kind of sitting and it was there, and we were we were working, and it was no but now that people know, even tonight at Minix Thing, one of the our our favorite sister Ann Dimmick, she was talking to a guy and she told him about he wanted to buy something, and she told him about a bunch of stuff that was ready, and he came back and she's like, What you got? And he pulled out the dark arts. So the dark arts is real, you know. I can I have a real the especially in Ohio, I got kind of got a thumb. I would be in every whiskey line because I go to whiskey lines be not just to get the bourbon that that's there. A lot of times I'll go and I don't even get the bourbon. But and there's so many times when what's on the shelf here is so much better than what's being released. There's a lot of whiskey on the shelf right now here in Ohio. The shelves are just like it's the different brands of what wasn't there starting to be there where you can walk in and get whatever you want. I can't wait to do that podcast. I do it every year. But dark arts, you can tell that it's that they it it's like it's in people's brains, and you've been doing a good job, and we've been trying to push it as much as we can here in Ohio for you. And I mean, honestly, I love your space and I you know what you've done, you know, right there. Even CT said, and Randy said you've even done more to it. So can't wait to get down there again with you.

SPEAKER_05 27:54

Wait, come down when we fire up that still, brother.

SPEAKER_02 27:57

What what's the what's the what's the goal for Dave?

SPEAKER_05 28:04

It's in production and it's in I don't know at this point.

SPEAKER_01 28:10

Okay.

Pricing Philosophy And Exotic Woods

SPEAKER_05 28:11

Four months, six months. I offered more money to get it fast tracked and like who knows. And you're gonna say it's in the works.

SPEAKER_02 28:20

And you're gonna try and do absinthe on it? I'm not gonna try, I'm gonna do absinthe. Okay, wait, okay, I'm sorry. That was a dumb question. Did you but you've laid down some already someplace else, right?

SPEAKER_05 28:34

I didn't absent. I've I've only done absinthe in the la in the lab.

SPEAKER_02 28:39

Really?

SPEAKER_05 28:42

Very, very small batch. Like stuff. I mean, like are you and your batches.

SPEAKER_02 28:48

Are you and Royce still partnering a little bit, or is that not happening?

SPEAKER_05 28:53

Well, me we're not partnering on absent, but we are in a strategic alliance together, and I will be making a lot of collective things on his three chambers still, is all I can say right now.

SPEAKER_02 29:05

Okay, no, yeah. And then you've you is that together yet? Is it is it running? Yeah, because I know that when I was down there they were starting to deliver.

SPEAKER_05 29:21

The still's there, it's just uh getting the nooks and crannies sorted out if that makes any sense.

SPEAKER_02 29:30

So, when it comes to absinthe and you doing absinthe and distilling, are you gonna be the master distiller? Or do you have someone in mind? Yeah, tiny.

SPEAKER_05 29:43

What I said, fuck yeah, Tiny. There might be someone else on the fucking production on it, but I'm watching all that shit on an iPad wherever I am in the world, because you know I have to travel the world and the country and shit, and I can't just run a still for fucking eight or sixteen hours.

SPEAKER_02 30:02

No, a master distiller is the person who's in charge of all the distillers. That's all that's you know, that I mean, most of the time when you get named master distiller, you stop doing a lot of distilling.

SPEAKER_05 30:15

Yeah, no one I I don't like the title master of anything. I'm a master of nothing, and I start to do that.

SPEAKER_02 30:22

Okay, you're wait, wait, wait. So we're gonna call you the wizard.

SPEAKER_05 30:27

My title is chief alchemist and also the janitor darkness.

SPEAKER_02 30:33

Yes, because great owners always are the janitor, right?

SPEAKER_05 30:37

Yeah, I'll scrub the shitter. I don't care.

SPEAKER_02 30:43

Oh that's that's that's uh I there's no doubt. That's one thing I will say. Anybody who's never met Macaulay, he's basically as far as you need, you could just tell the dedication of what you want, what you are doing. And and that just includes, you know, it's it doesn't matter. It's the selection of the the glassware, the presentation of, but you also are are a very good manager of people, right? I mean, talk about your staff right now, the people that if they go to dark arts, who they're gonna meet.

SPEAKER_05 31:19

Uh well, I've got a rock star team. If you know Sarah from formerly, it's Barbara Knight, she's just one of my spirit guides, and I've got my protege, Sophia, uh also a spirit guide, and then Kenny Douglas is kind of the nationwide spirit guide, and then uh we're we've got some other recruits on the pipeline right now. So we're building an all-star team. I don't fucking advertise on Craigslist LinkedIn or anything like that. But most likely if you working for us, you know somebody or I knew you for 20 years.

unknown 31:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 31:57

And like most of those people, most of those people never worked in the spirits industry before. So it's like we've tried that, didn't work out, you know. People have constructs of things, like they're like, I work for a cocktail company. It's just like, okay, well, everything we sell is uh at the time when we first started out is 90 to 700, and like unless you're selling a 30 or$100 old fashioned, that's not that's not a model that's working out. So we've had very, very little overturn, is all I'm gonna say.

SPEAKER_02 32:32

And I could see that another thing that everybody should know it's the when you're doing the kind of effort you're putting into your whiskey, the bourbon, and what you're doing, and how you go about do it, and you how you handpick stuff, and how you go. I mean, you're going to France and picking out wood from France, you're going everywhere and doing all this stuff that you described. People don't understand. You could be charging a hell of a lot more for what your whiskey is, and you're not. I mean, go into that concept in your mind because honestly, most people that I would have met that are similar to you who like the finer things in life, a lot of times the financial aspect of what's going on would translate into an awful lot of money.

Mizanara Flagship And Accessibility

SPEAKER_05 33:30

My grandfather was a businessman, he lost everything in the dustball with his family. I can go into a lot of pedagogy, the great grandfather went in medal of honor and all this. But like my grandfather taught me a long time ago take care of your customers, don't be greedy, set your margins at this so you can take care of your people and grow at the same time. So there's so much whiskey out there. Like, I mean, we know that the market's crashing on barrel prices, and we see these people selling$500,000 bottles, and then some of us insiders know what the actual liquid cost is, and it's just like, what are you trying to do out here? So I am trying to make these woods whiskeys, everything that I'm putting together accessible. I mean, people complain, gawk about oh, this bottle's$90, and it's just like, okay, this is a 78-year-old product. I went to the jungle, I talked to the trees and made the toast profiles with the cooperage. I'm sorry. Like, this is a like I can't do any better from it. Like, I saw I I have family to feed, I've got 15 employees, something like that, and I still have to grow my business. I mean, like, we we don't live in a utopian socialist society or communist society where we drink fucking the same bourbon or vodka out of a box, right? And it's just it is what it is. Like, we're not greedy. I mean, like, I don't drive around in a fucking G wagon and wear Gucci head to toe. Like, I I'm a humble man.

SPEAKER_02 35:05

I I mean I'm eccentric, but that's exactly that you've you've explained it perfectly, and that that is like the the Mizanaro. I mean, talk about that Japanese wood and how much that is.

SPEAKER_05 35:21

I mean, Mizanaro casks are about three or five thousand dollars a bottle, depending on or a barrel, depending on who you talk to. We we use a different staving technique on them, and we've made this unattainable wood attainable as a mass consumer product or whatever, not mass consumer, I hate to use that word. That's actually our like flagship whiskey, 100 proof, non-age stated, but it's like five, six years old, and it retails on the shelf for like 60 bucks or something, depending on where you are in the country. And most Mizanaros, I mean, I don't think anyone's even close to that. I think they are usually double, triple, quadruple. Like, I don't know what fucking the acronym for five is because I'm stupid, but I got some degrees, but I can't spell, and I'm not that great at math. What is fucking five times something in the thing? Do you know Tiny?

SPEAKER_02 36:23

Uh Quin Quin Quintuple? I think it's something like that. It's I know quadruple Quintuple. I think it's Quintuple.

SPEAKER_05 36:34

Alright, well, we won't go down that that rabbit hole because I don't know what six, seven, or eight is.

SPEAKER_02 36:40

Did you say six, seven?

SPEAKER_05 36:43

Yeah. But you you understand what I'm getting at, though.

SPEAKER_02 36:47

Yeah, Walker says Quintuple. We gotta we get hey, I could have asked my meta glasses what it is, but you know, we came up with the right answer without it.

SPEAKER_05 36:56

I don't know. I just hear people gawk like, oh, this price is so expensive. Why are you why are three or three or four core items 90 bucks? I'm like, okay, exotic wood from the smallest horse in France, um rare wood from Bolivia in South America, 108 to cast strength. And if you are a better economic person or money manager or marketer or anything like that, give uh give Dr. Minton a call because I'm always hiring.

SPEAKER_02 37:30

I will tell you this the Missonara is what? I think in Ohio it's 65. I think it's$64.99, which is which is insane. Which I I am on uh, you know, this this pullback, I gotta, I can't just keep buying everything. So what things I've had four or five of, I kind of back off. But when you put that out at that price, I I'm in. That just made me take what I have in a budget and spend it on that. Plus, I will tell you if anybody questions the I believe it was a hundred and four dollar price for all of the barrel picks we did for the state of Ohio. When you bring your best barrels and let Ohio taste through them, and then they get the pick from that, of course it should be right around a hundred bucks for a bottle of that because that's some of your best shit. And you and you put you put sports.

SPEAKER_05 38:38

And like, I don't just go on Alibaba and buy Armagnac cask. I travel to France and I have relationships with these fifth, sixth generation, even longer houses over there. These people are my age, they want to be part of the global spirits revolution, and we make alliances, and like I mean, it it I don't go first class anywhere. I fucking fly in the back and I eat fucking beef jerky and pretzels and shit, and like economy shit, like ultra economy. When I take a rental car out, I get the stick shit day woo thing and whip it around, you know what I'm saying? And I stay in the CD Roach Rotel or I pop a tent or sleep in the back of the car. Because you know, Tiny, I'm an old school hippie or something like that at Art.

SPEAKER_02 39:32

You you combine so much of what you are, sometimes it's hard to explain, and I'm just glad the next day you're alive. Because I love you, man.

SPEAKER_05 39:44

So just Tiny, I'm gonna take a I'm gonna take a set break for a minute. I need to refill on one and go do something. All right, you can talk about Uncle Donnie's uh delight real quick, and then I'll pop back in a minute.

Politics, Speech, And The Whiskey Community

SPEAKER_02 39:57

Perfect, perfect. All right, everybody. So let's uh let's quick do this. Anybody who came on, we've got Cinder and Cinder and Block, Cinder and Smoke, 10-year barred. We've got the four log steel distilleries American 47 and Tennessee Whiskey's 4547. I had a whole thing, and and you know, you don't turn down Macaulay coming on the podcast. I understand everything, but you know, he's like, send me the link. So I I took the link and it kind of went away. But I gotta open these, and I'm gonna I will. I mean, I want I've been dying to do this podcast, and god darn it. Alright, thanks a lot for that, Walker, that quintuple. I guess I was right, and I got that open. The 4547. I don't know which one's gonna. I had three glasses, but now I've been drinking dark arts. What does everybody think right now of what I've done with all right? I can do this too for everybody who kind of I have no idea what's been on. All right, Thomas Anderson, tiny and everyone. I hope Steve, let me know, Steve. Are you watching? Because I don't even know. What did you think of that? Of me pulling out. Alright, let's do this. When I hear him come back.

SPEAKER_04 41:37

Oh, that's not it. That can go sideways. I think I got it over here.

SPEAKER_02 41:43

Let's just do I know how to do it. We go over here. We hit photos.

SPEAKER_04 41:53

Oh, did that not come up? There it is. No, that's not it. All right, that's Facebook. Doing that.

SPEAKER_03 42:06

Let's go to photos. Let's see if I can get that to come up.

SPEAKER_04 42:14

I lost it. Did it? Did I? Did I? Did I? Did I? Oh, it's gotta be over here. Not there. Not there. Oh my god, I must have dumped it back over here. All right, let's see, zoom workplace, photos. If I go to that, photos. This must be it right here. Nope. Go back to photos. Still on Zoom workplace. Photos. All right, come on. Where'd it go?

SPEAKER_02 43:05

Oh, that's it. All right, we'll put this up. Where'd that go? Back to photos. How did I lose it? Anyways.

SPEAKER_01 43:21

Let's go. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Photos.

SPEAKER_04 43:31

There it is. Again.

SPEAKER_02 43:37

It's like crazy that I had that over there and I could have just dropped it in and it went away.

SPEAKER_01 43:43

Photo.

SPEAKER_04 43:49

There it is. Came back.

SPEAKER_02 43:51

Alright, there we go. Alright, everybody. There we go. Alright, so we're doing this part. There's the 47. 47's open. Alright, so let me quick see if I can get up the information on 47. I tasted this with Wally Dant, and this is based off of this is like a secondary kind of thing. America 47 is one of Logstill's signature bourbon expressions, known for blend of carefully blended combinations of two high-ride bourbons and one weeded bourbon, aged around five to seven years. The proof bottle is at 47.94 proof, and deli a deliberate nod to the distilleries DSP KY47 designation and spirit name. But we have the 47th president. So, I mean, so that's what we're doing. It's a presidential America's 47, and I poured a little bit in there, and I was gonna barrel a bottle break down this, but I'm not sure if I'm gonna do that tonight. But it is Deep Oak. Hey Meta, are you there?

SPEAKER_05 45:11

She might have to be tiny, not she's trying to do porn though with them. I don't know if you listen to me.

SPEAKER_02 45:17

You were trying to do porn with the with the glasses?

SPEAKER_05 45:20

No, I told you not to.

SPEAKER_02 45:22

Oh no, I I didn't do porn.

SPEAKER_05 45:25

Okay, okay.

SPEAKER_02 45:27

No, don't worry about that. Do you know the bards? Kim Bard? What? From uh Old Commonwealth. I I think so. It's the Bard distillery.

SPEAKER_05 45:44

Oh, a Tom Bar Tom Bar.

SPEAKER_02 45:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 45:49

We have not broken bread, but we are familiar with each other. Okay.

Bourbon As Social Glue

SPEAKER_02 45:55

Yeah, so the story goes, and Kim, I it's just so it's like a freaking phenomenal cool story, okay? Initially, it's just like everybody, like if you're a whiskey podcaster, it doesn't to me, it doesn't matter. There's I feel that bourbon in so many cases, if you're you can't, everybody drinks bourbon and whiskey. And a lot of times when you're drinking whiskey, political things are just null and void. It's how people get together. It's the glue for people treating each other respectfully if you drink it properly. It's not an abusing thing.

SPEAKER_05 46:39

There's so many people that dump tiny, and that's what you have to get political with it, my friends. No, I know, but what I'm saying everything everything is political.

SPEAKER_02 46:48

Well, I can't, as far as my podcast, be going out and making any I don't make any political statements.

SPEAKER_05 46:55

Sometimes I'd like to make cultural statements are political, my friend.

SPEAKER_02 47:01

No, no, wait, no, no, no, wait, no. I don't make any United States politics with people in politics statements because I respect everybody's opinion. I just want everybody to have their own opinion, and I want people to go back to where it used to be, where you could have your own opinion. We we have elections and we do things, and yes, I agree there should be movements and people should do with their beliefs. There's no doubt about it. But it shouldn't enter into our everyday lives where everybody's fighting, put it that way.

SPEAKER_05 47:39

Yes. I appreciate that statement. We'll talk more offline about this conversation sometime.

SPEAKER_02 47:44

Right. And I'm so I am, I was so she made a statement, and you're talking about Kim Bard, made a statement, and I said I said the statement was stupid because what was her statement before you say it was stupid? Something based off of hating what Trump did. Okay. And and I told her that why when you run a distillery, I I mean, Macaulay, you definitely have a political. I mean, my daughter and you would get along so Let me go ahead.

SPEAKER_05 48:18

Let me go ahead and say one thing right now.

SPEAKER_02 48:21

Go ahead.

SPEAKER_05 48:21

What Macaulay Minton says is Macaulay Minton. What my distillery does and my business and my staff is a whole nother fucking thing. All right. If people don't understand the division on that, then I'm fucking sorry and I'm done with that. But right, right. But at the same time, what Macaulay Minton to be able to speak my truth, Tiny. My truth is my identity, and that's the only thing that I have in this life is my truth and my name until I'm put in the fucking ground. I don't give a fuck about money, power, distilleries, whiskey, fucking awards, whatever the fuck it is out there. I am who I am. Right. And saying in Hindi is so home, which means I am.

Tasting: Cinder And Smoke, 45/47, 47

SPEAKER_02 49:04

But I will tell you this. We me and you can have this discuss this discussion in another in another format without it having to be a public format, is all I'm saying. And I don't know. I'm just asking what she said. We don't have to go down that rabbit hole. I'm sorry. Well, and I just said, when you're trying to sell whiskey, it was it was stupid to say that. And she took it personally, and I wasn't trying to offend her, and we kind of got into it a little bit. So when I was at Kentucky Bourbon Festival at the end of the festival this year, she came up to me and gave me this bottle. And I had talked to her a little bit, and I'm just like, I wasn't trying to say anything personal against you. It was more like, why would you offend people who drink whiskey when you're trying to, you know, it's it's a it's a it's a one way or another on half the people who there's a lot of people who drink whiskey are one way, and a lot of people who are drinking whiskey are another way. And you want to sell whiskey, as you said, to dark arts to all of them, and you have to have an opinion, but you shouldn't put it on freaking Facebook. That's just all I was saying. I don't put any of my opinions anywhere because I will talk to you about it because I am a people watcher, observer, I love everybody's opinion. Right or wrong, in my opinion, it doesn't fuck freaking matter. This is how the world works.

SPEAKER_05 50:38

So, Tiny, let me just say one thing real quick. Did she say that on her brand's page or was that on her personal page? Because I believe that we all have something called the First Amendment.

SPEAKER_02 50:50

No, wait, wait, wait. She has the right. I have the right to come on this podcast if I want to and express my personal opinions on things. I do have the right.

SPEAKER_05 51:03

We're not having an argument right now, right? Right. Expressing viewpoints right now. Right, right. I think we're we're we're we're going into more a of a philosophical conversation than anything right now. This isn't this isn't an argument. No, no, not at all. It is a gentle conversation, and I'm just expressing Macaulay Minton's viewpoint on this, and it it it it upsets me when like I like because like I've had I've had death threats, I've had extortion, I've had all this shit go on with my life, and I I don't deserve that, and they're all they're always gazy or fake things like that, but like my family doesn't deserve that. My my team doesn't deserve that. We have security, we have security protocols that I can't talk about right now because of these things, and I didn't ever imagine as a brand owner and a whiskey producer or whatever that we'd have to put those in place, and part of it's my fault because I am who I am, and I unapologetic for who I am. I mean, stomp me in the ground and put me out. No, don't do that.

SPEAKER_02 52:09

You make freaking grief, nobody do that. No, but collie, like I said, I don't have a problem. I don't because honestly, you everybody gets a vote and whatever, but how this world keeps working and how it keeps going forward, I mean, it's just like you can you you can choose where you live, and that's that's the greatest thing I feel that this country has, that it doesn't stop you for let's just say you're living amongst people that you don't agree with. You have every right to go move amongst people you agree with. And that's there's and and it used to be a hard thing to do. It's not a hard thing to do anymore.

SPEAKER_05 52:53

And that's why we don't live in a communist country when we are able to express those, but those rights are eroding at this point, and that's all I'm gonna say on that.

SPEAKER_02 53:01

Oh, I agree, I agree. There's there's there's there's over overstepping on one end and un and overstepping on the other, and yes, there's no doubt, but throughout history, they've eroded before, and you know, and we, you know, and you know, people always I I I love it when someone tries to tell us, tell me that somehow it's worse than it was in the 1920s. The only thing I gotta say now is that nobody hides anything anymore. It used to be easily hidden, and you can't hide it anymore, but yet everybody still does it right in and open.

SPEAKER_05 53:39

I mean, like, uh how much do you know about like geopolitics and history? Do you remember McCarthyism by any chance and kind of the communist or the communist scare, yeah, and then rounding up everyone in Hollywood and all this stuff? Yep. And it was a suppression for a certain narrative that the United States was trying to control, and we're back at that point, is all that's all I'm gonna say.

SPEAKER_02 54:03

I just told I just feel that I don't I see the the the play the where we're where we're like maneuvering, but I don't see the actual I don't think they need I don't think they feel that they need to do anything that they actually do anything. You know, you know what I'm saying?

SPEAKER_05 54:25

I hear a lot of no, I hear no I I just speak in generalities, but like what look look at what's going on in testimony from Congress right now, and our leader from the Justice Department and other things, and I'm done with both.

SPEAKER_02 54:45

Yeah, okay. Yeah, we're we're you know, there's a lot of stuff going on, there's no doubt. It goes on, and it's just like I don't like it when people die, and I just think there's there's things and shit that goes on that just like leads to whatever we're whatever we're doing. Just extreme being shot in the streets right now. Extreme, extreme levels of both, you know, the both, both whatever. And honestly, they I'm just glad I'm just glad. I'm just all I'm glad is is that it cool it's cooled down. And whatever's not no there. I'm glad it no one's gonna die there anymore. We'll see what happens.

SPEAKER_05 55:28

All right, just go in the next whiskey.

SPEAKER_02 55:31

Yeah, there you go. So so this one from Bar, The Cinder and Smoke, which which they put out with the so here's the story, okay? She did that, and I didn't mean to get her. So she knows Stacy Pritchard, and she made mention that I said something on Facebook and she was hurt. So at the festival, I went and I was not trying to hurt, I was not insulting her and calling her particularly stupid. I was saying that the post, I didn't understand the post, okay? Because there's no way I'm gonna ever say anything. I I see things, whatever. So I'm like, you run a distillery, you have to, you kind of have to like at least have some you can't the you can't just it it's gonna hurt your business. That's all I was saying. So what I did is we made up. I came up to her and I was apologi- I walked and she said she was she was apologetic to me, and I was apologetic to her because there's no way, and and I don't I was introduced last the the the Kentucky Bourbon Festival before, and I was gonna go there. So then I got to so she gave me this bottle right here, and she's like, we produced this for the inauguration and released this. This is Cinder and Smoke, it's their special thing, it's a 10-year, and I'm gonna tell you what's in this thing is freaking they a 10-year off of that that distillery, damn good whiskey. And you know what? I must have been, I swear to god, Macaulay, I was was psychic tonight. You see that?

SPEAKER_05 57:19

You can you the darker has helped you out, right?

SPEAKER_02 57:22

Look at look at here you go again. Here's another one.

SPEAKER_05 57:24

I pulled from my my I wasn't even planning on jumping on because I was at hospice and in the mountains with my shaman and my uh Wu Tang Swordmaster tonight.

Lexington’s Distillery District History

SPEAKER_02 57:34

Okay, so that's freaking awesome. And so let's first go into the into the into the glasses. So we're at New Orleans Bourbon Festival, and you're like, you do know that they make these glasses where you can you can broadcast live or you can record, and they're glasses and they're whatever, and I'm like, yeah, and he goes, and I'm like, now do you have a set, a pair?

SPEAKER_05 58:01

Also, make sure the fucking logo is turned out for the camera.

SPEAKER_02 58:06

The what?

SPEAKER_05 58:08

The logo logos out, baby. Logos out.

SPEAKER_02 58:13

I don't know. It's just like I was so so it was like, I'm like, really? So the whole thing was, is my goal to be able to get these. I I've always wanted the logo. This this this type of style, I think it's cool as, you know, you're talking Z Z top, you're talking all these, and you're no matter what. And I was like, so so Roxy, this this last Christmas, this is the Christmas present. And now I feel, no, I haven't been down to Kentucky, but I can't wait to get down to Kentucky because everybody's gonna basically be seeing, oh, I'm gonna be recording live constantly, and I'm gonna be recording. So it's just really cool because you were the one that that even enlightened me to that, and that just makes sense for what I do, right? Did you lock up?

SPEAKER_05 59:14

No, I was just looking at Fawn Weaver's special three part nightcap right now and listening to how she uh defrauded the banks and uh uh giving her a side of it before she goes to jail.

SPEAKER_02 59:30

Well, that's yeah. So this this this in here is decent, and then I have the last one.

SPEAKER_05 59:41

So what you're so initially you're well is that the resurrection day blend, or what was that one called?

SPEAKER_02 59:49

This was this is called Cinder and Smoke Tenure. And they do this specifically for special releases, and this one they left, they that was the inauguration, and uh, and she came up to me at the end of the festival, and the best thing I ever did after you poured buff turkey down my throat.

SPEAKER_05 1:00:09

Yeah, we're gonna talk about that.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:10

That was awesome.

SPEAKER_05 1:00:12

That was that I I I did not do that tiny. It's uh it was a legal serving from a cup.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:19

It was it was the it was the right amount. Anyways, Cinder and this one, I'm walking away and I'm going over and the festival's closing, and she comes up and she hands me that bottle. And then I gave her a hug. And it like I said, this is why I wanted to like talk about this a little bit, is because this is exactly what I feel. That's why bourbon needs to be existing in this in this world, because it bridges people with different opinions together so that they can that just because you have this opinion or you think this, people think different thoughts. That doesn't mean you can't get along. The problem is, is when we like like you said, when we start telling people that they can't get along with other people that think differently, then we really got a problem, and that's like that's like it.

SPEAKER_05 1:01:18

And it's so for a tiny one part of my PhD thesis is talking about like alcohol, specifically bourbon, being a social conveyant bond of community. Do you understand what that means? Yeah, will you will you restate that in Ohio terms forming?

SPEAKER_02 1:01:38

It's can it's it's part of it's it's a glue, it's connectivity between people. Right. Right? And that's what I've always that's why I love this. I love to be able, I don't, I don't think everybody should think the same. When people think one way and think people think ever another way, and you mix the two and they all agree to come up with a solution to be somewhere in the middle, that's that is the best of a country because we all know there's all different types and everything has to exist a certain way. The ultimate thing that humanity has had a problem with from the start is what do you do with a certain class of people that don't fit the conformity of society?

SPEAKER_05 1:02:28

And it's I mean, tiny, I'm not trying to get into bib biblical terms, but do you remember? Like, I believe it's called the Tower of Babylon or something, everyone spoke the same language and everyone got broken down and things like that.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:40

God got pissed and spread them across the world and said, figure it out.

SPEAKER_05 1:02:44

It's spread across for a reason, and there's many times like I'm doing a barrel pick or I'm drinking with a bunch of people, and then all of a sudden the group's like, Yeah, brother, you think this way, and I'm like, I'm sorry. Can we please just focus on good conversation and the whiskey in front of us?

SPEAKER_02 1:03:06

I I think anybody who's doing a pick with that is crazy. I mean, what the sh shit? That's my thing. What the shit? That's crazy that somebody would do that.

Dark Arts Space And Local Alliances

SPEAKER_05 1:03:22

Well, I believe it's an old Persian philosophical point. I might be wrong on the country of origin or j geographic, whatever on it, but like once upon a time, philosophers uh would sit around and debate issues sober, and then they would debate them drunk later in the night, and then they would talk about it the next day. And then what they pulled from those two conversations would be the guiding principles of something. That is the Sparknet's watered-down version of it, but I think that's what we need to get back to.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:58

There's there's things that have to bind us as people together because so much is fucking different, and people have everybody has a different road to live and experience of where they are, and there is no, I mean, yes, there is an inherent evil wrong and right, and I always feel that evil is among us, but that evil is among us because that's all part of the yin and the yang and the 50% one way and the other way. It has to be you can't what what if everything was great, how would you even know it? Because there would be nothing to compare it to that wasn't great.

SPEAKER_05 1:04:38

Well, justice will always prevail, and I don't even need to pull pull down any lip tattoos or quote Ezekiel 21 from that pulp fiction movie that they jumbled the actual scripture from, but I think you know what I'm talking about.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:55

Yeah. Okay. I'm gonna I I I was tasting through all three of these. This one comes from Logstill Distillery. I have a question. Initially, did Logstill distill at Wilderness Trail?

SPEAKER_05 1:05:12

I cannot comment.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:14

What? That's not an that's not a commenting thing at this point. I I don't know. Okay. I'm sorry, I didn't know that that wasn't a common thing. Alright, so this is log still.

SPEAKER_05 1:05:30

Whatever Wally Dance says, that's Wally Dance juice, and that's not mine. I'm not an employee of Wilderness Trail Distillery or Kapari Corporation, and I cannot comment on certain things, is all I can say.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:42

Okay, is it before you weren't an employee from there? Could you have commented?

SPEAKER_05 1:05:49

Um no comment.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:50

Okay. Okay. I'm gonna drop that. All right. So, anyways, I know the 47, whatever, is is log still, and I know how long long still has been doing it, so it's whatever juice that they have, and Wally's a good purchaser of juice. And then this is theirs at Bard. It's their first tenure, which is which is good. So this is out of Tennessee. Wise dis distribution. I don't have any clue who that is. I haven't here, let's just really quick, because America 47. God, I had so much on this. It's just like, all right, let's see. What is it?

SPEAKER_01 1:06:29

47 Patriot Edition. No, come on. Oh, come on. Type American Machine, not bought. This is through Green Age.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:43

Proof jelly, 92 proof ball, small batch, limited release, often featured the Patriot Edition on bottles and listings. It's out, it's bottled in Tennessee, but I will tell you, I wasn't expecting this to be good. You know? I wasn't sure, but it's but it's decent. I mean, I just had a sip. There's a lot of vanilla, it's sweet. I will tell you for the str at 92 proof, it probably drinks really easy. And there's a there's no no off taste. So I would say on all three, if you whatever, open your bottle and drink it because it's worth it. I'm not saying this is spectacular, but I was expecting something to be a lot. Less than this. Alright, so I'm getting back to the dark arts. So tell everybody about how cool your tasting room is.

SPEAKER_05 1:07:50

That's pretty geachy and avant-garde, and we don't sell biscuits and gravy at the fucking front counter like a lot of places do and come check it the fuck out.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:02

Yeah, and then it's also it feels like a rave party to me when I go in.

Industry Cooperation And Brand Resilience

SPEAKER_05 1:08:14

Because many years ago when I was in college, the pepper distillery had 10-foot grass and all that stuff. And I used to go rave in the building when it was all flat in the in the space and area where I now own a distillery. And this is in the historic pepper distillery in Lexington, Kentucky. And we actually have like a small smidget of the area of the first rivercounts, or one of the major roothouses of that. And what a lot of people don't know about that property is that Pepper was a Mongol. I mean, like he was up there with the Vanderbilts and things like that. There's rumors and mummings and history that it was whiskey created the old fashioned. And then what a lot of people don't know is a lot of people used to order branch and branch. Do you know what that is, Tiny?

SPEAKER_02 1:09:09

No, I do not. I will be honest.

SPEAKER_05 1:09:11

That I've so branch and branch is limestone water from the town branch watershed that flows behind the distillery. And they used to send that water all over the place, and people would add water to the whiskey. And that's that's where we're at right now. Yeah, If we're in a historical place, I am actually the president of the Lexington Distillery District, and we are working on historical preservation, native plants, watershed ecology and development to redevelop the water of the area because it's been a storm drain for many years, and I wouldn't even wade through there. So me, this University of Kentucky, and our group is fighting to restore that area every single day.

SPEAKER_02 1:10:00

Okay, and so that explains the name of Town Branch, because they're just up the way. When I went down before I was podcasting, before I met you, I went down in 2019 to the Kentucky Bourbon Festival and completed the Kentucky Bourbon Trail. And when I went, uh my wife was in Lexington for uh a birth convention, and I was just completing all the stuff. So I actually was staying downtown, but I walked over to Town Branch and she was gone till 5 o'clock. So I finished at Town Branch about 2:30 after their and it was in 2019, they were doing better single malt than they were doing bourbon. I think they've finally lately been able to do some decent bourbon, but before that, so my um my brother uh Dave Bob, if you ever had the pleasure to meet. Yes, yes, Dave Bob is awesome.

SPEAKER_05 1:10:58

I don't know what his title is right now, but Mr. Dave Bob is working his magic hard as he can there.

SPEAKER_02 1:11:05

And they're and their whiskey now has gotten to the point where it's just like when I got there, my my opinion was that they really did some damn good single malts and they they wanted to produce single malt, and they had an uh a distillery in Ireland where your other your sister, Lisa Roper Wicker, would work there for a little bit, so and she was over in Ireland a little bit.

SPEAKER_05 1:11:28

She was the CDO for a bit. Yeah. That's a conversation for her, not me, but they had they still have the production facility in Ireland. They still have the production facility in Lexington, and then they s recently sold off the production facility that they built in eastern Kentucky to I think it was Cold Pick, don't quote me on that. But they make really good things, and they are really good friends of ours.

SPEAKER_02 1:11:56

Okay. And so so yeah, we we visited this year, and Dave Bob put us through, and we got to do their barrel. They have a really cool barrel experience, and you know, you get the thief they thief from the barrel for you, and everything, and everything's changed, it's much better. But when I went there, I walked over across the highway and got and walked down to the old pepper distillery and the barrel house. And at the time, I don't think even RD1 was in that space. So the barrel house and wouldn't have been.

SPEAKER_05 1:12:32

Right. I don't think any of that was developed at that point. Well yeah. I mean you're at pepper distillery was kind of one of the flagships, and so is the barrel house. Those are both my brothers in arms in these campaigns right now, and we have modernized the whole area. It is an eat place, sleep area.

SPEAKER_02 1:12:52

There's a Gucci Hotel, there is bars, restaurants, restaurants. Wait, wait, wait, bars, restaurants, and the greatest pizza place on in frickin' anywhere.

SPEAKER_05 1:13:04

Certain venues. I mean, the Manchester Hotel has a chef that is a badass that you can do a chef's table on the roof. They have a concept called Lost Palms, which is small play, and then downstairs is Grand Dam. Holy shit, like you can't go wrong by coming to Lexington, and Lexington is just so overlooked, and I commonly refer to it in these advocacy meetings with elected officials as the black hole of the bourbon trail. And uh all of us are working together to change that.

SPEAKER_02 1:13:38

Well, when I went in 2019 and completed the bourbon trail, I obtained my glass that they were giving. It was a Libby glass, and it said, you know, could and I was able to do that in downtown at City Hall, which was very unique to me. But when I was in that area, they had the restaurants, they had the ice cream, they had the you know, the shop, a couple shops, and they they had um barrel house and old pepper, but in the old pepper tour, I do remember them talking about the the branch behind there where the water the limestone water ran ran.

SPEAKER_05 1:14:20

So when I was when I was in college at the Jim Beamman Institute in University of Kentucky, we actually went to what is now the pepper distillery and got the view of that facility, and it was in ruins. I mean, there is graffiti on the walls, homeless people, needles on the floor, all this, you know, kind of jazz, like it was a place for high schoolers to go get stoned and party and like get away, because it was just warehouse and trash at that point, and every single one of the individuals that you have listed have set the cornerstone for transformation on that, and I am not trying to claim any territory on having that. I'm just trying to work with me and those existing businesses to elevate that area, and we're doing beautiful with it right now.

SPEAKER_02 1:15:13

And and and if you've it I I I visited it last year on my way home from Florida or two years ago, and everything had been uh it just keeps moving forward. It did blow my mind that you know RD1 moved out of the space and moved into their new their new facility, and I had no idea when I came up to RD1, and then I we went over and visited you at uh you weren't at Dark Arts, but we got to uh visit stop in and visit the staff and have the bar is awesome.

Never Selling: Building A Legacy

SPEAKER_05 1:15:48

I mean, you know, it's just I I like they were their RD1 is really good friends with us where they're part of our consortium, whatever you want to call it, right? Because they're like four minutes away. When I knew that they were building their new facility, I called Barry Baringer and I was like, what are y'all doing with this old spot? And he's like, nothing. And I was like, Can you contact me with the landlord? And there was a lease signed in a few days.

SPEAKER_02 1:16:19

Yep. And I transformed the space. Of course you did. I walked in and I knew what the space was before because I'd been there multiple times, and we had been just at the new RD1 distillery, which that that is unique, but they're like the first ones in there, and whatever that's gonna be isn't what it's gonna be yet, and it's gotta get there. And but when we came over to you, I did not realize it was like three minutes away. It was just like he didn't move, he just moved to three minutes away.

SPEAKER_05 1:16:52

That's the beauty. So that's the beauty of some of these barbing companies and spirits companies that actually work together because us independent guys believe in the rising tides principle. Like we build each other up and we all get successful, and they outgrew that spot, and I came in and transformed it, and I will keep that spot, and I am looking for uh other expansions right now, and that's all I can say.

SPEAKER_02 1:17:19

Well, yeah, and you expanded from where you were when we first initially visited you, right? I mean, you had you had a vision, but this this this vision transferred to here. It was just great, it's just great. I would suggest anybody stop through.

SPEAKER_05 1:17:35

Me and Pablo from Rare Character were working on a storage unit in an industrial building, essentially.

SPEAKER_02 1:17:42

So, did you have exceptional character? Have you tried that?

SPEAKER_05 1:17:47

I've got an assortment of all the products.

SPEAKER_02 1:17:50

160, man, that was uh interesting to me. And it took me all night to do, I think it was, I don't know if it was a full, it was probably three-quarters of an ounce. I got a shout out to Maul at at the Trail Hotel, because they they've got some shit going there. That's it's good to see something like that in Barstown. But he I went there, went to the speakeasy. He's like, Have you had exceptional character? And I'm like, no, he's like, you're gonna. So it was kind of cool.

SPEAKER_05 1:18:22

Yeah. Pablo's a great man.

SPEAKER_02 1:18:25

So you're just you're not are you doing I mean, honestly, Macaulay, you're just doing what everybody else did before you.

SPEAKER_05 1:18:34

Everybody I don't know what that means.

SPEAKER_02 1:18:37

No, I'll tell you, I'll in the whiskey industry. They the you took the, you know, that's one of the big things when Heaven Hill burned down. They were all there to support them. They they distilled for them so they didn't lose their brand, right? It's similar. That's the whiskey industry of everybody helping each other, understanding that making good whiskey, and if you make good whiskey and you have good marketing skills and you know kind of what you're doing, you can succeed in this industry because people are always looking for that, they do look for the you get your brand base, but people are always looking for different expressions, and you that's though that you're building it on the fact that you have so many unique different expressions, and you don't want to you don't want to settle on anything. If there's something to be done, you're gonna try and do it and bring really good whiskey to the industry, right? If it tastes good.

SPEAKER_05 1:19:39

Sorry, Tiny. That first statement that you made, I thought you were saying that I was copying people and just doing bullshit and because like I've been accused of that. But you know my whole pedagogy and my background and everything, and everything we've always talked about. And uh I I I'm a peacock and I will never fly, and I know that, and my feathers get weathered uh from time to time, you know what I'm saying?

SPEAKER_02 1:20:06

Yes, I do. I I know you as much as I can. I don't know, I I haven't, but I mean I understand it's just like when you if you if you're if your feathers get ruffled, people will know it. But but you don't but you when you get it ruffled, you're gonna let people know what you think, but at the same time, you're not telling everybody to you're not telling them to completely fuck off unless they're fucking with you.

SPEAKER_05 1:20:35

Yeah, that's a very delicate conversation, and your sweet baby angel ears don't need to hear that right now, but just know that there is a lot of large corporate organizations that have my face on a dartboard from Milan to Frankfurt, and they hate me and they are trying to destroy me out in the market. They talk shit about me all the time. They're reps do they're distributor partners, but for some reason we keep persevering, and uh I know there's a I know I'm trying to political what there's there's a Michelle Obama quote that says, when they go low, we go high.

SPEAKER_02 1:21:18

Well, all it can tell you is if they're trying to go low on you, that just means you're someone, Macaulay. Because when big guys are noticing, if you were if you're just another little guy, it's it's like when people notice, that's when you get, you know, there's always that. You and then you have to persevere.

SPEAKER_05 1:21:38

You you can't let I will never sell this fucking company. I will never sell this company. I don't give a fuck if someone calls me right now at 1002, offers me$820 million. This is a generational family business that honors my grandfather because we're gonna start distilling family grains and things like that that you don't know about. And that's all I'm gonna say right now.

Vodka, Highballs, And The Elusive Party Bourbon

SPEAKER_02 1:22:06

Okay, so I that is a fantastic freaking statement, and I understand it fully. But I will s I what is so you're you have a fiance, correct? And you plan to make a family still? Or what's your what's your opinion on that? We're gonna make a bunch of toehead kids. Okay, so I I had to home hold my breath. Yes, all right. So then you're you're hope then you're hoping to pass it on within the family. Or at least at least sell it to somebody who who is with you.

SPEAKER_05 1:22:52

It's gonna be in a binding trust that no one can break.

SPEAKER_02 1:22:57

There you go. Alright, I'm gonna get us off. I'm gonna get us off this right now on the audio. Fantastic job. And then I'm gonna do what I normally do, pull some people in. You wanna I'll finish that up, okay?

SPEAKER_05 1:23:11

Uh shout out to uh president 46 whiskey and the regime, whatever it tastes good or something like that. Buy it, support it, whatever. I didn't was there a 46? I don't know what it what is it saying.

SPEAKER_02 1:23:28

I mean, it's it's ridiculous. This is 45, 47, this one's 47, that one's center and smoke, but it's even more ridiculous because the person who this is this is considered for doesn't even frickin' drink. So I don't even know what that's the what that's about, but at the same time, I just wanted to rate this whiskey.

SPEAKER_05 1:23:49

It's it's good whiskey regardless of something and drink bourbon and not Russian vodka or something like that until my boy Zelensky goes in there and I make an acquisition in Russia.

SPEAKER_02 1:24:03

Well, I uh so just real quick to finish up when it comes to vodka, I'm not a huge fan. I'm not quite where Fred Minnick is where vodka sucks because I don't think vodka has its place. I mean, the best vodka ever made is the one that when you add apple juice or you add cranberry juice or you add something to it, it tastes like cranberry juice. That's the whole purpose of vodka, right? No smell, no taste.

SPEAKER_05 1:24:31

Wait, wait until we we start running that noble my other companies, Red Winter Wheat. I mean, me and my fiance, we start dinner out with a I I get a whore filthy like strip club bathroom, martini with blue cheese olives. Oh, I love blue cheese. They're upstairs right now. And then she gets hers dusty in there, and then we proceed because I just can't drink bourbon all the time. Like, I'm not drinking out of my Applebee's cup from the other night, uh, but uh I'm drinking wine right now.

SPEAKER_02 1:25:09

My my question to you, Macaulay, is why so just like why isn't there a bourbon drink that they've come up with that's similar that you can drink like for a football game or you can drink that's more like a party situation? I under you go to a concert, a rock concert, and you can fucking drink whiskey, and that that is a thing, right? But when it comes to certain different New Year's Eve, why isn't there a New Year's Eve bourbon drink? I mean, there's there's there's actually drinks for scotch, sidecars, and stuff like that that you would drink. Where is the bourbon drink? I challenge your bourbon staff to come up with that everyday bourbon drink that everybody's gonna drink. I mean, you're not gonna drink an old fashioned is ridiculous.

SPEAKER_05 1:26:04

Like honestly, tiny, like we haven't gone into highball cultures with different like elements to it. Like, I personally that's the thing about taste and preference is like I like I personally like I like a highball with elder flower in it, you know, a little floral note to it, but the next person doesn't like that. So you wanna wash that shit down with Coke, Diet Coke, Coke and C D row. Not sponsored by Coca-Cola yet, but you know what I'm saying? There is no universal drink because we have a diversity of palettes in the United States, and like I told you earlier, we're not drinking fucking communist whiskey out of the brown box and have to drink that fucking vodka shit on the street.

Team, Titles, And Respect In Hospitality

SPEAKER_02 1:26:54

That's true. Now, I want a drink though with a if with bourbon in it that has a blue cheese olive. I I think I gotta figure that the fuck out.

SPEAKER_05 1:27:05

The first time I'll how uh Tiny, how about you just come to the crib and I will we we can figure out what kind of blue cheese and then we'll figure out what kind of olive and then we'll figure out what kind of bourbon, and then we'll figure out the special sauce. Uh, and then we'll do it in the hot tub too, so we can figure it out. Or the pool, depending on time of the year.

SPEAKER_02 1:27:25

So, so you've j you've just invited me into the house? We'll see if you're on your best behavior. Security will take you out and wait to. Wait, wait, wait, wait. Macaulay, I am security. That's what I was gonna do.

SPEAKER_05 1:27:41

I was gonna apply to you you you you you top did you ever watch fucking next Friday, like top flight security of the world, and then uh day day come through and all that shit, and then the pimp with the fucking pliers comes through. I got the pimp with the pliers working for me.

SPEAKER_02 1:28:02

Well, I believe that, but but she's probably not walking around with you all the time. I mean, I I'll apply once I'm retired. I'll just hang with you day and night.

SPEAKER_05 1:28:11

They're in the in the shadows, brother.

SPEAKER_02 1:28:16

Anyways, all right, so let's end this so we can get some people in. All right, everybody. WW, thank you, Macaulay, for coming on tonight. I don't even know that that is just like after I talked to you before, and at first I I butt dial you from from Cleveland, then I run back. I think you parted on the phone. It must I don't even know how that happened. It's just like I'm checking out, and all of a sudden Macaulay's calling me because my what my granddaughter is buying chips, and he's like, You called me, and I'm like, Oh god, that must have been a butt dial. Anyways, and then you're like, Well, I'm up here doing this in the in the woods and doing my thing, and I didn't want to so I'm like, I'm sorry. And then we texted about, and you're like, I don't know when I'm gonna be on. Then you come on tonight. Awesome.

SPEAKER_05 1:29:05

The unofficial one. We still got a fit uh schedule the official, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:29:09

So I could promote everything. And you and and you know, oh my god.

SPEAKER_05 1:29:15

And's on Ann's even watching, so that's that's we we need oh I I can't say names right now because I got the Shadow Warriors out there, but maybe we get my team on here and we get that red-headed lady from Ohio on there sometime. And that would be great. I don't know who that is, but maybe we get us a little round table. Going on.

SPEAKER_02 1:29:38

If you get Sarah on, I would just like, I would like die.

SPEAKER_05 1:29:42

Well, she's on my payroll and I signed her check. So uh we could talk about that.

SPEAKER_02 1:29:48

I mean, I mean that girl, that girl had a podcast that you just I just watched woman. Not a fucking woman. Okay, that woman, that, that, that fantastic, her eyes were so she her you would look at her eyes. She got the goddess. She look I would sit there and watch, and I would watch her eyes, and she could do without talking, she could tell you what the bourbon was without even talking.

SPEAKER_05 1:30:22

And then when she what don't ever don't ever call these women girls, yes, okay, or honey bun.

SPEAKER_02 1:30:30

But but remember, but I don't call them sweethearts.

SPEAKER_05 1:30:35

But at the I'm not I'm not degrading her. Look at me, look at I I just gotta be the pulse correctors from time to time. I need a set break right now, and I'll be back.

SPEAKER_02 1:30:46

Alright, but last but not but just let me defend myself here. She's she's she's the same, you are the same age as my son, and she's the same as so from a standpoint. I look at you guys the same age as my kids. I'm not saying you're my kids, but at I'm not being disrespectful. I'm just old.

SPEAKER_05 1:31:07

I understand, Tiny. I just have to voice my opinion.

SPEAKER_02 1:31:11

You should, you should. She is a woman.

SPEAKER_05 1:31:13

I am I I'm a young executive or whatever the fuck I am. I clean the fucking toilets and shit. And I get tired of people's bullshit. And you understand that way. I'm going on set, bro.

Closing Notes And Listener Support

SPEAKER_02 1:31:25

Right. Go on set break and I'll end this, and then when you come back, we'll be live. We'll be live with everybody else, alright. Alright, here we go, everybody. Thanks for coming in. W.scotchybourmanboys.com. Hey Dario, thanks for coming in. Also, and if you're still watching, you should come on. I'm gonna put out the link when I'm finished with this. Uh remember, we're on Facebook, Instagram, YouTube, X, TikTok, and Patreon. Whatever you can do, become a member, just not subscribe, become a member, support the podcast, join the pod join the Patreon, leave. I wish that I could get some super chats on YouTube. Do that too, support us. Everything goes right back in, just like Macaulay. Everything that I get goes back into bringing us good content. And then also we're on Apple iHeart and Spotify on audio right there. But if you are listening or watching on anything, we're probably there. But make sure that you get leave us good feedback, comment, and make sure five-star review on Apple and iHeart. We would greatly appreciate it. But remember, hey, Super Nash is there. Remember, good bourbon equals good times with good friends. Drink responsibly, don't drink and drive, and make sure that you live your life uncut and unfiltered. And let me see if I can get this. I think I got it. No, that's not there. There it is. Are we gonna have our theme song Take Us Out Witch upon Rise of the Boots on the floor?

SPEAKER_06 1:33:32

No day till you can't no more the choice is doors, how you play it out when you walk through that door.

SPEAKER_00 1:34:11

On the rock screen.

SPEAKER_06 1:34:22

We're all fucked up with us from my boy.