Koval The Black Sheep Whiskey

We head to Chicago to taste Koval Distillery and dig into how two PhDs built a grain to bottle “black sheep” whiskey brand that helped revive city distilling. Then we run a full tasting and score the Four Grain Single Barrel that hits us with banana bread sweetness and a finish that keeps us debating. 
• how Koval returns distilling to Chicago after Prohibition 
• who Dr Robert Birenker and Dr Sonat Birenker Hart are 
• what grain to bottle means in a small urban distillery 
• why organic and kosher production changes expectations 
• four grain mash bill with oat malted barley rye and wheat 
• rye whiskey notes with pepper heat and creamy mouthfeel 
• bourbon notes and why it shines in cocktails 
• wheat whiskey at higher proof and why it feels “toasted” 
• Old Louisville Whiskey Company barrel bottle breakdown scoring 
• why 375ml bottles make collecting and tasting easier 
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Chicago doesn’t get enough credit for shaping American spirits, so we’re heading straight into Koval Distillery, a modern craft producer that helped bring distilling back to the city in 2008. John Ritt joins me as we break down Koval’s origin story: two PhDs leaving established careers, betting on whiskey, and building a grain to bottle operation focused on consistency, creativity, and ingredient driven flavor. Koval also leans into a rare stance for American whiskey: certified organic and kosher production, plus mash bills that refuse to play it safe.  

Then we taste. We crack into a Koval sampling pack and work through Four Grain, Rye, Bourbon, and Wheat Whiskey with real time notes and plenty of debate. The Four Grain is the shocker. With no corn and a mix of oat, malted barley, rye, and wheat, it lands like confectioners sugar and banana bread in a Glencairn, sweet without feeling syrupy. The rye brings grassy aromas and a pepper flake finish, the bourbon shows a bolder bite that makes us think “Old Fashioned ready,” and the wheat whiskey drinks big and toasty at higher proof.  

We finish by choosing a winner for our Old Louisville Whiskey Company barrel bottle breakdown and talk about why Koval works best when you stop comparing it to Kentucky and start appreciating regional American whiskey on its own terms. We also get into cocktail potential, a quick hack for blending bourbon and rye, and why 375ml bottles might be the most practical move for collectors who actually want to drink what they buy. If you enjoy craft distillery tours, Chicago whiskey, Koval Four Grain, and honest tasting notes, hit play, subscribe, share the show, and leave us a review on Apple Podcasts.

voice over Whiskey Thief

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Transcript

SPEAKER_06 0:59

Middlewest Spirits was founded in 2008, focusing on elevating the distinct flavors of the Ohio River Valley. Their spirits honor their roots and reflect their originality as makers, their integrity as producers, and their passion for crafting spirits from grain to glass. Their Michelon reserve line reflects their story from the start to the bottle to your glass. With unique wheated it and rye bourbons and also rye and wheat whiskeys, the Michelon brand is easy to sip. It might be a grain to glass experience, but I like to think of it as an uncut and unfiltered from their family to yours. Unfiltered. We're diving straight into the heart of Kentucky bourbon culture.

SPEAKER_00 1:45

Let's get started.

SPEAKER_06 2:52

Alright. Welcome back to another podcast of the Scotchy Bourbon Boys. Tonight we have John Ritt in the house. I'm just moving stuff around here. There we go. That'll work. And it's like going, everybody. Yeah. Woo! It's good to have you on. You've been, you know, it seems like uh, but but this podcast tonight, we you know, we have seriously delayed this one. But it's we've been so busy when you think about it, that what happens is uh we it just to get it on, we've been talking about it, but you know, it was last it was the last week of July, right? First week of August kind of thing that weekend when we went down, and it it seems like it was yesterday. I mean, that's how fast time's flying for me. It's not like it was that long ago that we're just sitting in your driveway, right?

SPEAKER_05 3:56

Doing things.

SPEAKER_06 3:58

Exactly, exactly. And you know, one of the cool things about it is, you know, when we went there, we kind of we were gonna go to Thornton. And when that kind of fell through, we decided that this Koval, there was a there we were meeting Martin Duffy for dinner, and also it's it's kind of close to Benny's. So we did the the trio kind of thing where we went to Binny's, then we went to Koval, and then met Martin Duffy at the restaurant, which had closed and reopened under a different name. Uh that's what uh Martin had told. He told me this at in New Orleans. So, you know.

SPEAKER_05 4:40

Oh, wasn't it the green spot or something like that, maybe?

SPEAKER_06 4:43

Yeah, but I think it's a different name. It led to us getting one of the international whiskies that we did, right?

SPEAKER_05 4:52

Yeah, Levant Heights, the one that Randy did from Lebanon, I believe it was.

SPEAKER_06 4:55

All right, I gotta hold on. God darn it. Yeah, that's crazy. Um it just shows that my my daughter has no, it might be my grandson, though. He might be calling me, but there was no answering that one.

SPEAKER_05 5:13

Grandpa's on a podcast, it's cool.

SPEAKER_06 5:15

Yeah. So, you know, just uh to throw out the www.scotchybourbonboys.com for all things, scotchy bourbon boys. You can we've got, oh my gosh, I'm in trouble tonight. We've got Glenn Cairns. I I washed all the Glenn Cairns, but I'm just gonna grab a Middle West Spirit Glen over here. Is it?

SPEAKER_05 5:34

I got a Scotchy Bourbon Boys one.

SPEAKER_06 5:36

I got the Middle West Spirit one, but that's dirty, so let's just not do that one. But you have one, okay? So you go with that. And I just need I don't have any glens for tasting, and we've got the value pack and everything there for that podcast. And so I've got it, a lucky seven. It doesn't, but we have Scotchy Bourbon Boys Glens and we have the t-shirts. And John tonight is wearing a t-shirt. He's he's representing the Scotchy Bourbon Boys tonight. And then there's also from time to time seasonal bourbon balls. But if you're looking for any of that, you can either do it on the website, I'll get an email, and we can send it out to you, or you can contact me directly right here, you know, right the Jeffrey Mueller or the Scotchy Bourbon Boys. I'm always monitoring those things and go from there. So also we're on Facebook, YouTube, Instagram, and X, along with iHeart, Apple, and Spotify. But no matter whether you listen to us or like us, one of the cool best things you can do is you can go to Apple, uh, you know, Apple Podcasts, find us, and leave a good review because the reviews mean something. And uh early on, we had a couple bad reviews, not based off of being bad or anything, but by a rival podcast. And so that's not kind of how I work, but you know, we're trying to erase any kind of so if you can go to Apple and you can leave us a good, you know, leave us a good review, that'll work out good. Plus, you can become a member on Facebook, you could become a member on on YouTube. Please do that. Every single bit helps us in everything that we do. From the whiskeys that we purchase we have to purchase if they're not sent to us, to the the stays that we do to bring you better content. So make sure that you you know check out the the podcasts or you know, social media. All right, so we got that out of the way. So tonight we head to the Windy City. John, you're right now exactly your city. Wheaton. Wheaton. Okay.

SPEAKER_05 7:53

Wheaton, Illinois. Yeah, I'm about uh 22 miles west of Chicago.

SPEAKER_06 7:58

Right. Now, are you closer to the if they build the new city in Gary? Are you closer to that than the people in Chicago?

SPEAKER_05 8:07

No, that wouldn't be pretty much farther south. Okay. Uh yeah, I hopefully they don't build there. If they go to Arlington Heights, that's not too far.

Why Koval Stands Out

SPEAKER_06 8:17

Right. That would be better. All right, so in Chicago, bourbon meet so this this is where bourbon is gonna meet in in in oh my gosh. Let's start over. Tonight we head to the Windy City, where bourbon meets innovation, where tradition meets rebellion, Coval Distillery. The first distillery to rise in Chicago since before Prohibition, built not by industry insiders, but by two PhDs who bet everything on whiskey. This is not your grandfather's bourbon. This is the black sheep of American whiskey. Now, come on. Now that's a pretty good intro, wouldn't you say?

SPEAKER_05 8:57

I liked it, man. That was pretty good.

SPEAKER_06 8:59

I'm pulling out all the stops, you know what I mean? And so you I'll let you do some facts. One, you know, like right now, uh, we could just get into it. The origin stories, you know what I mean? Who uh who are the owners? I mean, you've got the we'll I'll let you go through that, talk to talk about what they did, you know, what they tried to do and where they're from.

SPEAKER_05 9:24

Yeah, so Dr. Robert Bierniker and his wife, Dr. Sonnet, Bernicker Hart, were the ones that, like you said, opened up the distillery. It's been the first one in Chicago since roughly the mid-1800s. So they had previously established careers within the government and out in the academia world. But then, as you said too, Jeff, they decided they were gonna go to this path and do whiskey. So their goal eventually was to basically marry centuries of tradition from Robert's Austrian, not Australian, Austrian distilling heritage within his family, and then kind of marry that with state-of-the-art technologies, all the aim of basically bringing heightened levels of consistency and creativity into the world of spirits. Because you know, they don't just do whiskey, they've got gin and I think brandy too. But yeah, they're they just kind of were on the lines of hey, the best spirits gotta come from the best ingredients and crafts in its entire lines, you know, using things from scratch, it's using a grain-to-bottle approach. Every step of their process, they really monitor super closely, and it's managed right onto the site at Coval. And one thing I found out which was cool is they source their grains from very trusted farmers. I think some of them are local. Uh from the milling to the mashing, all the way to the distilling and the aging. And again, right there on their site in Chicago. And the bottling, it's a pretty cool place. Not huge. It's not big, it's just it's a nice place, though.

SPEAKER_06 11:34

Location of it was pretty cool. I mean, where they were located, that was that on like that alleyway. It makes it made for easy in and out for any tour buses and that type of thing. They have that bar there, which was pretty cool. Now they are organic and kosher, which is like crazy. You know, so and then we you talked about like their mash bill, they use other grains like that aren't traditional, like non-traditional rye, oat, and millet added into like their corn and that kind of stuff. So they have some really kind of cool things, right?

SPEAKER_05 12:12

Yeah. I mean, millet's kind of like that, it's a it's a weird, it's almost like a grass, isn't it? I mean, and it's it's naturally gluten-free from what I was understanding. And he really likes to use that in you know a lot of his different matches. So it's pretty cool.

SPEAKER_06 12:29

Yeah, yeah. And then I also know one of the things they do is they do like heart cuts. And because it's, you know, we now let me see. I I should be able. I wanted uh, okay, we're gonna hit this right here. Photos. All right, we're gonna try. Pull this over, and that's the wrong, the wrong thing. But use no, I should have saved them, but I did not. So I could probably one of the things is that when we went on the tour, you got to see the still, you know, and we we saw now, and it and it is a smaller distillery, and that the day we were there, which was I believe we went to the pop the Cubs game on Friday, correct? And then we went to Coval on Saturday. And it was the bar was hopping, right?

SPEAKER_05 13:26

Oh, well, it was crazy. I mean, it was kind of it wasn't so packed when we were there, but we came out of the tour, and then another tour went in, and another tour went in, and then people just started showing up out of nowhere. It was pretty cool. I liked their setup. Yeah, it was pretty, you know, you can go in there, sit at the bar, they had a lot of couches and stuff, super friendly, great atmosphere.

SPEAKER_06 13:44

Yeah, it was it was. I mean, and then, you know, it it was very much a city distillery. It felt, you know, they had to work within the confines of the neighborhood that they were in. You know, they had barrels aging inside, the windows were to an alley. You know, you really got you didn't get the feeling of a big giant. It was a they were definitely a craft distillery, there's no doubt about it, right?

SPEAKER_05 14:09

That's for sure. Yeah, and it's like that still that they use too. That would it's called a Kutas still. So it's a custom pot still that's I think is handcrafted over in Germany. That was pretty cool to see. I remember taking a pic. Martin was in front of one of the pictures I sent you. But it's it's kind of um it's it's made specifically for whiskey and brandy production. So it's got a kind of more of an elongated helmet and then a special distillation column, you know, under a unique kind of what they would call a bubble cap type of construction. So it provides a little bit of surface area, from my understanding, for the spirits to, you know, when they're in there to develop their flavor, develop their aromas and things like that. So it has, I think, like a 5,000 liter capacity. So it's it's a pretty decent size still.

SPEAKER_06 14:57

Yeah. I mean, honestly, there was the so in 2008, there they they were the first distillery to come to come back after Prohibition in Chicago. I think few was also then they were in the area right after them, but they put Chicago back on the whiskey map after a hundred years of not producing any any, you know, like whiskey, right? So they do they're there, like you said, they do whiskey, gin, liqueurs, and specialty spirits like beer brand. Which I I did we try that when we were there?

SPEAKER_05 15:38

I can't remember if we did. We had we had several things. I'm not sure if that was one of them. So you know, Jeff, they have one of the they have the greatest source of water right there. They source it right out of Lake Michigan, man. It's all charcoal filtered and charcoal purified, so yeah.

Black Sheep Name And Global Reach

SPEAKER_06 15:56

Well, it better be. It's Lake Michigan. Anyways, Koval is Yiddish for black sheep. So it's perfect brand identity. I mean, what they name their now, so it's funny because that's that's not what you think. Koval, it kind of reminds you of a higher-end spirit, like you know, it almost is like the name of uh, you know, a male. Why am I having not aftershave but cologne, like a cologne or a uh a high-end wine coval? I mean, yeah, but then they tell you, well, it's Yiddish for black sheep, so it's just kind of like it's different. I I prefer not to know that, but it because uh coval has such a cool name, right?

SPEAKER_05 16:52

Yeah. I mean, is it black sheep or blacksmith? I mean, it's is it blacksmith? I think black sheep. Black sheep, okay.

SPEAKER_06 17:02

Yep, and then it's sold in 50 plus global markets, and it's won uh over a hundred international awards. So that's kind of cool, right?

SPEAKER_05 17:14

It is cool. You know, that's cool, you know, with Robert too being with that that KUTA design, you know, he was actually uh one of the technical masterminds behind the installation and some of the optimization of the custom KUTA stills for some iconic names in the whole whiskey industry. I know he set up an original system for or provided critical consulting for Woodenville whiskey company. And then I think he also consulted for High West and Whistle Pink. And then I think he was regionally he did some things too because at Chicago in the Midwest, I think he was setting up for few and Paul Let Go, and then Journeyman, which is over in Michigan, and then the sponsor for one of the sponsors for Scotch Bourbon Boys, Middle West Spirits out in Ohio. So that's pretty, that's pretty neat.

Laws Changed And Local Terroir Talk

SPEAKER_06 18:05

Yeah, I I would I'd be interested to know whether it was the first craft distillery or if he was even involved with the new distillery. He might you never know. I mean, I'm thinking it was the craft distillery because I been to there and that's very a little bit bigger than Koval, and that craft distillery was one of the few. You walk in and those stills are running 24-7. Whereas, like when we were there, you know, I've been to so many craft distilleries that when you go, nothing's happening. You know what I mean? It doesn't happen. It's not happened 24-7 in Middle West was just, it was just plowing. And then now, you know, that's a whole different story, what they got going there. I don't even know how what the amount that he's going to be, he's just got to be producing massive amounts of whiskey. But, anyways, they you know, they've they've been responsible. They started from scratch in 2008, financial crisis timing. Was it a passion or a crazy leap of faith? Who knows? And then they are responsible for helping change Illinois law to allow distillery operations, and their the grain-to-bottle philosophy is still what they go with today, which is very similar to Middle West. You know, you're talking about trying to get the terroir of the Illinois area of grains and everything. And that is something that, you know, I find that, you know, Indiana, Kentucky. Now, if you leave something in the barrel long enough, the barrel will start to bring it, bring everything closer together, you know. But but overall, the the different flavors are always key in what what the area you're drinking your whiskey in.

SPEAKER_05 20:03

Just checking in real quick, Jeff. Randy's on, Walker's on. Randy said that they do make interesting whiskeys, and yes, we try to veer. Randy's got the memory.

SPEAKER_06 20:14

Yeah, I'm my for some reason my maybe we did.

SPEAKER_05 20:18

Yeah, maybe we did.

SPEAKER_06 20:19

I'm gonna reload this one one more time.

SPEAKER_05 20:23

And Matt wants to know if you have the white chocolate urban balls, yeah.

SPEAKER_06 20:27

The white chocolate. Who knows? It could be happening. All right, I will.

SPEAKER_05 20:37

And Matt wants to know if you have the white chocolate urban balls, yeah.

Unboxing The Tasting Pack

SPEAKER_06 20:43

Hold on. I gotta get that off. Did you just is that deja vu? It's like whenever I ref now. It's now it picks there's Randy's stuff. I was uh for some reason I'm not picking up the what'd you call it? And then on YouTube, do we got any? All right. Okay. Thomas has joined us, he always joins us. Cheers, Thomas. All right, hello, Tom. So we're still all right. We talked about heart cut flavor profiles and traditional bourbon versus okay, so their flavor profiles versus traditional bourbon, we just finished that up. I mean, that's kind of so that gets us to it's funny because I I'm not I'm going through the the podcast segments right here. And we're we we're covering them in order before I even go to them. So let's um let's talk about what what when we went there, we picked up this little pack. And I think you got the wheat whiskey too, did you not? This 375. So both of them, I think tonight what we'll do is let's do some sampling of each of the packs. I love the packs because they are to me a podcast in a in a box. This is a pot, and that's why we picked it up because we tasted all their stuff, and then you know, we all know. So you get this little box for the price. They're they're not they're 200 milliliters. So this is 600 milliliters of whiskey, right? It's it's it is 200, right? If I'm not mistaken.

SPEAKER_05 22:22

Yes, you are correct.

SPEAKER_06 22:23

200 milliliters. And why do they oh, there's a little insert to keep them in there? I gotta pull that out.

SPEAKER_05 22:31

It's yeah, I I that that mess with me. This is not easy to do here. No, this is like a bad Christmas gift, you know. Like, hey, you're not gonna get your Christmas gift right away, kid. You gotta keep working. Did we have to like rip it? How did they part? So I'm pulling it. You gotta pull up and push down on the thing. It's like on the top of the bottles. It's really weird. All right. Pulling orange intelligence of just pull them out before them.

SPEAKER_06 23:01

Pull up, push down. There's one there. Thanks. Pull up. I can I'm capable of it. I've been working out.

SPEAKER_05 23:13

There you go.

SPEAKER_06 23:14

So here we go. That was wonderful.

SPEAKER_05 23:18

He said they do use interesting grains like millet. Yeah, we were talking about that, Randy. It's uh that millin is like small seeded grains, it's unique. And I think it's pretty naturally gluten-free if I recall.

SPEAKER_06 23:30

Yeah, here's so what they got, what we got here is we've got their rye, we've got their Four-grain, which is a single barrel whiskey, right? Four-grain. And then barrels. And their bourbon. So we've got their bourbon, their four-grain, their rye, and their wheat whiskey, which we sampled at the bar, and the wheat whiskey was pretty, it was fantastic. I mean, yeah, I think that that made us all. And I always like when you go to a distillery, a craft distillery, you might not always find exactly what you're looking for, the taste thing. But if you could come away with one that you really like, I mean, they've done their job, correct?

SPEAKER_05 24:23

Oh, absolutely. And they have some other special ones that they they release from time to time. I was just looking at some of their stuff, and I'll forgive me, I can't remember exactly what it was, but I think they have ones that might be tenure expressions and things like that. You can find it, I think, on their website. So they have they have all kinds of really unique stuff. I would say if anybody does come to Chicago and has an extra hour or two, definitely swing by COBOL and check them out. Their tour was, you know, it's really small, but you know, the guy was really knowledgeable and it was really kind of cool to listen to their backstory and get to go in their like, you know, their little distilling warehouse there. But I think it's I think for anybody it's worth just to stop in and their bar that I forget the bartender's name, obviously, but he was whipping off some good drinks too.

Four Grain First Sip Reactions

SPEAKER_06 25:10

Yeah, it was it was happening. I mean, honestly, the bar was happening. I was I was very happy with the experience. It wasn't, you know, a lot of times you're not sure what you're gonna get with with city craft distilleries. There are some people who from time to time, it's almost like their water may not be the greatest or whatever. I've I've you know, but you just never know. So what do you want to do? Wanna start with the four-grain?

SPEAKER_05 25:37

Yeah, let's do the four-grain. Sounds good to me.

SPEAKER_06 25:40

These little yeah, it should be. I've been looking forward to this for a couple, you know, months.

SPEAKER_05 25:47

Yeah, and like I said, we get busy and we've been we've been talking about trying to get everybody on and do this. It just kind of worked out tonight. That would be the one to do.

SPEAKER_06 25:57

I grabbed the tab on the foregrain, and guess what? Either I pulled the wrong way. So here now I'm gonna have to something's good. I got it. I got it.

SPEAKER_05 26:10

I was gonna say, do you have a knife or a scissor?

SPEAKER_06 26:13

Oh, great. Here we go. All right, got that off. Let's just all right, two points into the garbage. All right, pull this baby. It's a it's a brand new crack. So we're talking the the a synthetic cork, right? Oh, I'm telling you. Oh, I like this. Oh, that that had a nice. All right, that was a nice nose. Nose right. I could smell it. You know, sometimes your your senses are a little bit better than other times, and I could smell it just straight off. There we go. So this one is the one that's up. The coval four-grain. We'll move that. Yeah, put these two right here. All right, this is what we're sponsoring. Put that for YouTube. All right. So we'll just whatever one we come up with, that's the one we'll do the barrel bottle breakdown of, okay? Sounds good. But the nose, the palette, it's like, and we can compare this to Kentucky, but I'm really liking the nose on this one. I'm picking up some banana. I'll give you a banana.

SPEAKER_04 27:40

I gotta see.

SPEAKER_05 27:42

It's so thermos in there. I get a little banana on the nose. I will give you that. Hey Ricky, good to see you. Thanks for jumping on.

SPEAKER_06 27:59

Maybe some cherry wood? Yeah, my tonight, my Facebook does not want to update.

SPEAKER_05 28:07

I'll keep glancing over.

SPEAKER_06 28:10

And I'm not uh we're we're doing all right, right, as far as no stuttering.

SPEAKER_05 28:16

No, everything's looking good, man. All right, here we go.

SPEAKER_06 28:20

You can get that glitch out of the way. There's nothing off about this nose. What are we looking for as far as a proof on this four-grain?

SPEAKER_05 28:30

47%.

SPEAKER_06 28:31

84%. That's that's 94, 94. 94. Yes, 94, excuse me. 94, not bad. Let's do give her a little sip. All right. Do you know what the four grains are on this one? Ooh. Oh, man. Confectionary. I where did that come from? Ooh. It's confectionary sugar. That's that's and with a little bit with a little bit of bananas foster.

SPEAKER_05 29:04

Butterscotchy.

SPEAKER_06 29:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 29:12

That's a warm baking spice in there.

SPEAKER_06 29:14

That jumps high to the top of the list. Let's do the and switch this real quick. So we're looking at certified organic by Midwest distilled from organic grains. Oat, malted barley, rye, and wheat. So it is a four. Okay, so they're gonna say that this is an oat. No corn. Very interesting.

SPEAKER_05 29:44

That's one of the things he does, is he likes to do these different grains. So, and I do think this was named a top spirit of the year from wine enthusiasts. Because of the palette, the spicy finish on it, I guess. And then well, let's see. Oh, that's wild.

SPEAKER_06 30:07

Let's see if Meta can give us the actual mash bill. Hey Meta. Do you know the percentage of the mash bill of the Koval four-grain whiskey, which is made up of oat, malted barley, rye, and wheat?

SPEAKER_00 30:33

It's about 21% oat, 18% malted barley, 36% rye, and 25% wheat.

SPEAKER_06 30:42

36 rye, 25 wheat, 21 oat, and whatever the malted barley left over.

SPEAKER_05 30:50

I'm not gonna do 36 rye? Okay.

SPEAKER_06 30:53

Yep. And then 25 wheat, right? Yeah. Can you re- hey Meta, can you repeat the mash bill?

SPEAKER_05 31:02

Hey Terry Down, good to see you.

SPEAKER_06 31:08

Hey Meta, can you repeat the mash bill that you just told me?

SPEAKER_04 31:14

Sorry, I can't find any response to repeat.

SPEAKER_06 31:17

Nope. Did you hear that? Yeah, I'm sorry. Sorry, I can't. Anyways, I think it was 18 if I really wanted to do. I think it was 18 on the butt it's delicious. But besides the point. No corn, dude. It comes off right off the bat, like birthday cake frosting. And then you start to pick up the butterscotch. That's a I I'm in that's that's very enjoyable.

SPEAKER_05 31:56

It is.

SPEAKER_06 31:57

I mean, I'm I'm sold on that one.

SPEAKER_05 32:01

That's a unique foregree for sure.

SPEAKER_06 32:03

All right, so I gotta finish this off. I'll do the same. Wow. When you do it in uh not a taste, but a bigger gulp. What is that? I just feel like I'm raisin? No. I just feel like when I lose control and I go in the refrigerator and I get vanilla frosting and I eat it out of the the Duncan Hines thing with with my finger, and then I make sure the spatula needed. I don't I I use I I could do it four times without contamination, the first, the second, the third, and the fourth, and the pinky finger before I'm done. And then I basically go get a spatula to smooth out the fingerprints so that nobody knew that I did it.

Rye Whiskey Surprise And Mash Bill

SPEAKER_05 33:00

Right. But well, should we do one of your least favorites, the rye next?

SPEAKER_06 33:06

Do you really want to? I think I tried this there. This is kind of scary. Cause I don't remember. I do remember. I do remember. But everybody, let's just preface this.

SPEAKER_05 33:27

Well, this is this is one that they use that heart cut, so we're talking about that earlier.

SPEAKER_06 33:36

What do you mean? The you're talking about the the heart of the run. Yeah, the right thing. They just pull, right? Yeah, that's just you don't use back, you don't use it. You just basically pull that. Oh, it's scary. We'll just do a little bit of that.

SPEAKER_05 33:57

That is a classic ray nose.

SPEAKER_06 34:00

It just smells like grass. Let's see what we're dealing with here. Hey, Meta. What is the mash bill of Koval rye whiskey in percentage?

unknown 34:16

It's 70% rye, 30% barley.

SPEAKER_06 34:20

70% rye and 30% barley. So they got that that should take that's a good enzyme kind of thing going on, you know what I mean? That that 30% barley, that is high. I mean, I think what is it? A old elk is 34% barley, and that is the m the secondary grain on all of old elk's bourbon at 34. So the the the 70% with 30% barley is crazy. I don't know. It smells not good.

SPEAKER_05 35:07

Well, you know, I'm getting a little bit of red pepper. A pepper flake.

unknown 35:14

Okay.

SPEAKER_06 35:18

The red pepper happens in the back of your throat. You know what I mean? Yeah, it's almost I'm not sure.

SPEAKER_05 35:25

Why is it so smell like a peppercorn or something? I don't know.

SPEAKER_06 35:29

I tasted when you taste, that's where it happens. In the back it, you know, it's very buttery. Not taste-wise, but mouthfeel. Like it's the most that is a weird that all of like do I have taste buds in the back of my throat? It skips. It's it like it is creamy, like I don't know. Whoa. I mean, like a buttery very unique. It it reminds me of a buttery white wine. There's a white, but then the little bit of rice, there that there's not a lot of like on your tongue and on the mid-pallate, there's no spice, and then it hits the back of your throat, and it's as if you swallowed a red pepper. Like those pepper flakes, you know, from pizza?

SPEAKER_05 36:33

Not terrible, just enough to just enough to let you know it's there.

SPEAKER_06 36:35

Well, look at this. This is this is a oh oh a crazy thing. I added some more. Yeah. I I would have to say, buddy. I'd have to say, all right, let me just I want to see what people are saying.

SPEAKER_05 36:51

And this is 80-proof, Jeff. The the single barrel with rye whiskey. That explains a lot, right? Yeah. All right, so let's make sure that's down.

SPEAKER_06 37:07

I reset it to go here. All right. We got Walker joining us. Good to see you. And Terry Dant. Okay. I don't know why tonight my doesn't want to update. Am I froze? No, I'm not. No, I'm I'm still there. I'm just looking like Stevie Wonder, that's all.

SPEAKER_05 37:32

All right. Wow, this was this is not too bad, man. This is it's got that faint sweetness to it.

SPEAKER_06 37:44

Yeah, I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna say this is one of I it's not Mickter's rye, you know what I mean. But it's not offensive. Oh I'd like to know what this would do in a in a in a cocktail. Honestly. I would I would consider.

SPEAKER_05 38:03

Yeah, I mean, at the bar they had all of these things up there and they were mixing them in different things if I remember right. So cobalt's probably uh I would say it's made, I don't know, a pretty top spirit if you're gonna be mixing.

Bourbon Notes And Cocktail Use

SPEAKER_06 38:18

Yeah, for for that. Yeah. Yeah. All right, so now we got the bourbon. All right. So hey Meta, what is the mash bill of coval bourbon in percentage? My batteries eighty-four percent. Hey, Meta, what is the mash bill on coval bourbon in percentage?

SPEAKER_00 38:51

It's fifty-five percent corn, thirty percent rye, and fifteen percent barley.

SPEAKER_06 38:57

So it's fifty-five percent corn, thirty percent rye, thirty-five, fifty-five, thirty-five, because fifty eighty, that's no fifteen. Fifty-five, thirty is eighty-five and fifteen barley. Here we go. So far, I'm happy with this pack. I that I I definitely now I will tell everybody the pack is there, and this is like, especially if you're a bourbon collector and you've got hundreds and hundreds of bottles. This is maybe a way to go because you might have a shot at drinking these. Yeah, I would agree. Right? So we are now on the bourbon. Excuse me.

SPEAKER_05 40:00

Let's see.

SPEAKER_06 40:06

Rollin', rollin', rollin'. No, there's this is pulling in some ethanol. The other two didn't really have that. This does pull in a little bit of ethanol. Do you agree? I would agree.

SPEAKER_05 40:43

Oh my god. You know what that is? What? That's like eating those little smarties.

SPEAKER_06 41:00

I'll give it to you. This one, out of all of them, has the biggest bite. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 41:08

That four-green was good though, man. I that was a good call to start it.

SPEAKER_06 41:14

This was a single barrel, also. Do we got the age on this?

SPEAKER_04 41:24

I do not know what the age would be.

SPEAKER_06 41:32

Let's ask Mehta, because she knows seems to know the mash bills. Hey Mehda. What? Hey Meadow. What is the age usually on a Koval bourbon single barrel?

unknown 41:53

Usually it's got no age statement, but it's often age since four years.

SPEAKER_06 41:59

Okay. So it's less than four years usually on these. I mean, they've been around since 2008. I'd like, like you said, their 10-year stuff is probably pretty fantastic. But they're this is just their straight bourbon. And on it. Definitely, I will say what you said, but I'm picking up a char or a smokiness a little bit on the finish. You agree? Not a leather. I would say again.

SPEAKER_05 42:52

All these seem to be peppery in a way.

SPEAKER_06 42:55

I would say, though, like the foregrain was unique, great sipper. The rye would make a fantastic. And I think this would also make a fantastic old fashioned because the pepper would come through. This is this would be a great drink, you know, like an old Forester comparison to an old forester that you use in your well to make old fashions or Manhattans because you're gonna get that peppery, that it's gonna stand up to whatever you're you're making with it, right?

SPEAKER_05 43:26

Yeah. Wonder anybody on Facebook or YouTube try the cobalt before let us know what you're thinking.

SPEAKER_04 43:34

Yeah, for sure.

SPEAKER_05 43:35

These are these are pretty good, Jeff, I gotta say. That was a good backup tour. They you kind of worked that one, man, when uh the other one fell through quick. This this turned out to be something pretty pretty cool for all of us when we when we were there. As far as color goes, the rye.

SPEAKER_06 43:56

Yeah, I uh but the bourbon seems to be the darkest color. No, the four-grain is the darkest color.

SPEAKER_05 44:05

Four-grain, yeah.

Wheat Whiskey Wins The Room

SPEAKER_06 44:06

You're right. Probably the bourbon in the ride is well. This weeded, yeah, that's not happening. What did I do with those? Switch out real quick. The weeded now, what we're gonna do next, which is mash bill is just wheat. Whereas the mash bill on the bourbon.

SPEAKER_05 44:44

Ed Porter says he's had several of the Cobalt single barrels, really likes them. I haven't had their other stuff, don't think there's much in Ohio. Being from Illinois, I don't know what I could tell you on that one, Ed. But yeah, their stuff's not half bad, dude. It really is surprisingly good, you know.

SPEAKER_06 45:02

But that three seven that 375 weeded, we were just we got the taste, and they gave if you remember, they we saw it and we're like, well, that's a weeded, a wheat whiskey. And we were kind of like, could we try that to the to the bartender who was totally cool? And I think he was the manager of the distillery. And he gave us a taste, and we were like. Like, okay, we're in. Yeah, we'll buy that. I mean, it's a$375, and it says right here$52, if I'm not mistaken. So it's$104 a bottle, you know what I mean? And but I'm putting in the wheat whiskey. So right now, in my opinion, if you go by and I'll just the this three-pack, the four-grain is phenomenal. Then the rye actually is surprisingly, what would you say for a rye, it's pretty damn good. And surprisingly, it was surprising to me. Whereas the bourbon was, I think when it comes to bourbon, if you compare it, it's there's no comparison to a Kentucky bourbon there. It's like you said, there's a little pepper. I think it holds there's their standards that standard bourbon would hold up in any drink and make a fantastic drink on the like because what you use to make your drinks makes a difference. But as far as standing up, it's not the bourbon wasn't exceptional to stand apart or anything like that. It was just your average, average bourbon. Not it wasn't bad. So you can't sit there and you're you're not gonna, but the four-grain was kind of a special, and then this wheat whiskey that we've got in our glass now. I'm I'm curious what you think on this one. And then we'll pick one of these four, or two of the four, if you like one better than I do. We'll do two, we'll do two barrel bottle breakdowns. If we have to. But I just lately I used to think American single malt was gonna be what was gonna come through as like to really start to take off, but I really think the wheat whiskey is where it's taken off way more than what the American single malts have. Now, this one, what is the proof on this one?

SPEAKER_05 47:55

It's 110.

SPEAKER_06 47:57

Yeah, this one is definitely drinking like like a barrel strength bourbon. And then, hey Meta, what is the mash bill on Koval wheat whiskey?

unknown 48:13

It's 70% and 30% barley.

SPEAKER_06 48:16

So 70-30 again, as far as the barley is in there, and that's that's a good thing to have that barley high because that really makes the when when the enzymes to help break those sugar chains down while they're while it's fermenting in the and the yeast eats the alcohol, it eats the the sugars, that you know it basically the barley is breaking those sugar chains down so that it's so that the the yeast can do what it needs to do. And so I I like these mash bills. But I wheat has like a toasted there's always that I don't know. I can't ever put my finger on it like a toasted oaky wheat whiskey to me. Pulls in. Wow, that's so good. Pulls in the sweetness, but wheat whiskey is like the closest thing to what I always think whiskey, like a good whiskey should take. It's not too sweet, but it has enough sweetness. And it's like the closest to like when Rick, when you into a Rick House, but it always has that little extra flavor of the grain. You know what I you know what I'm saying? Like, you know, it's when you drink, if I drink a wheat whiskey, I know I'm drinking a wheat whiskey. Don't you agree?

SPEAKER_05 49:55

Yeah, I would agree. I mean, you can pick up any of the Buffalo Trace brands, the Wellers, all the Wheat of Vine and Vite.

SPEAKER_06 50:02

I feel like I feel like I like frosted mini wheats, and this is a toasted frosty mini mini wheat.

SPEAKER_05 50:10

That's a really good call on that one. I mean, there's it's like eating, yeah. I mean it's it's would you say even maybe kind of uh a Pop Tart sort of?

SPEAKER_06 50:22

I'll give you a well that's where the toastings come. Like a Pop Tart perfectly cooked. Like, you know, you put a Pop Tart sometimes in the in the toaster, no, but if you put it in the toaster oven and you pull it out right when it's crunched, whatever, it pulls that. But then, like I said, if you were gonna do a cereal, this would be what I would use to pour over frosted mini wheats in a cereal podcast for CT. No milk. No, this is the milk right here, right there. A CT podcast. I wonder if we'd rent if we'd wreck wheat whiskey. So which one are you thinking on this?

SPEAKER_05 51:15

Man, this wheat one's good. I don't know, Jeff. I like that four-grain though, man.

Picking The Bottle For Breakdown

Barrel Bottle Breakdown Scoring

SPEAKER_06 51:28

I'm gonna have to say I like the wheat whiskey. It's high quality. I would recommend it to anybody, but we're gonna put that off over there, and we're gonna put the rye off over there, and we're gonna put the bourbon off over there, and we're gonna highlight in the old Louisville barrel bottle breakdown tonight the Koval four-grain whiskey, which is very unique, and we are going to do the old Louisville barrel bottle breakdown of Koval Four-grain Single Barrel. Old Louisville whiskey company in Louisville, Kentucky. Uh, right now it's in Shively. They've transferred over mostly to their new location, which is right near the it's an old Seagrim's warehouse, which is right near Michter's. But there's a couch in there, and CT spends a lot of time, and Amin is doing some great things, and he doesn't let anything out of his grasp that he's purchased that's less than seven years old. And lately, I think it's up to eight. And what Amin does there, very unique. He takes and takes through his barrels, he rebarrels them, he does things, he lets them age longer, he buys them rebarreled, he buys them original, he buys some very unique re you know, barrels to uh to re-barrel. So, you know, he's just always finishing and doing some crazy kind of thing, but all of it is fantastic. We tasted his 17-year, we've tasted his hazmat. There's nothing that usually is not as, I mean, it's always usually fantastic. So make sure if you're in the Louisville area, you check out the website and contact Amin for tasting and a tour of Old Louisville Whiskey Company. There we go. We'll set that over there. The Old Louisville Whiskey Company barrel bottle breakdown. Wow. Rating system is based off of four different categories. Nose. Wow. Again, nose, body, taste, and finish, the nose and the body, you can get up to four barrel knocks with this bunghammer. And then the taste and the finish can get up to five barrel knocks. And then if there's one part of the category that's exceptional and only one can be used, you can give it a butt up up for a total of 19 out of 18 for the perfect whiskey or bourbon. All right. So let me uh I finished the wheat. I'm gonna properly wash out this baby.

SPEAKER_05 54:40

Cheers, superness. Glad you're uh tuning in and listening tonight, brother. Jeff said you've been busy, grandkids are there.

SPEAKER_06 54:49

Yep, and once again, still not updating those. I I don't understand why I can't get it to update the comments, but I will make sure that the stuff.

SPEAKER_05 55:06

Randy says we gotta try the thresh and winnow. The millet is more like some of the international whiskies that uh you all have had on the show. I think you're right about that, Randy, for sure.

SPEAKER_06 55:19

All right. It's shared. Thank you for sharing, Super Nash. And then, all right. So I gotta make sure that is not in the way. It is not, and things are happening and scrooving and moving on. Thomas is still watching. He's he says he's passed on it because of price and proof. Yes, except for the fact that at the distillery, I think it we kind of that was kind of a cool thing. You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_05 55:50

I don't do you remember what the pack cost? I I can't remember.

SPEAKER_06 55:55

Sure. I don't think price tag on it. There wasn't. Oh well. All right. You know who might know is probably Martin or Randy. Randy probably remembers, right? All right, so let's put a decent amount of this in there. I mean, I just think that was kind of cool. That the foregrain, what we tasted was Super Nash. Super Nash, you should if you've you should break open that foregrain and uh put your uh put your uh rating in there if you can. And then you're gonna have to watch that, John, because mine does not up to update. We'll do.

SPEAKER_05 56:42

I'm just making a the nose on that to see what did at least you and I come through with here.

SPEAKER_06 56:47

Out of all out of uh seriously, out of all four of them, this one definitely had the best nose.

SPEAKER_05 56:54

Yeah. I still think, yeah. I still think banana's dominant across this thing.

SPEAKER_06 57:04

It's funny. It's like convectionary sugar, and as you turn it banana. And then maybe a banana's frost or creaminess. Like a banana bread. Oh yeah, that is it. It's a banana bread. I'll give you that. You the the actu the what you call it really comes through, right?

SPEAKER_05 57:33

Yeah, this I think this definitely got the best melts of all four of these. I had to look back and count.

SPEAKER_06 57:40

It's un unlike any, it's it's a different kind of banana that you get on, you usually get a runt on Old Forrester. And on this, you're you definitely that's it. You hit it. Banana bread with walnuts. What I need some butter.

SPEAKER_05 58:01

Yeah, a little confectioner sugar.

SPEAKER_06 58:04

Yep. All right. What are you gonna get? You go first. What are you gonna give this on the nose? Well, I like bananas. Is that a song? I like bananas, and I like it might be.

SPEAKER_05 58:22

There's some there's some confectioner sugar. I think you're right. Maybe a little butterscotch, caramel.

SPEAKER_06 58:27

One banana, two banana, three banana, four.

SPEAKER_05 58:31

Yeah, that's what I'm gonna give it a one banana, two banana, three banana, four knocks for me. Four knocks for it's four.

SPEAKER_06 58:43

Could you hear them?

SPEAKER_05 58:45

No, loud and clear.

SPEAKER_06 58:47

All right, that's high death knocking. Yeah, that's even uh it's not like runs is a candy banana. This is an actual real banana, and I'll give you the banana bread, very unique. Well, I'm gonna do something because I think it's the strong point of this. This is a really good, good whiskey, there's no doubt, but I'm gonna give it four knocks, but I've never had anything like this.

SPEAKER_05 59:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 59:23

You've given it basically a five, then, huh? Oh, I gave it a five because honestly, when you smell this, I mean, how can you not get it? It's like my mom used to make banana bread and banana nut bread and zucchini bread. And it the banana, it reminds me of her banana bread with some powdered sugar. I'd be like, like, if she ever makes me banana bread again, I'll I'll I'll have to like ask for it when I go down to Florida next year. And I'm gonna ask her to just sprinkle some powdered sugar on it.

SPEAKER_05 59:57

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_06 59:58

And then I'll table. Then you can take this with you, and you'd be eating it's basically smelling almost the exact same thing.

SPEAKER_05 1:00:06

With powdered sugar all over your nose and look like you were doing something really wrong. We're kidding, everybody. I'm kidding.

unknown 1:00:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:00:15

But no, it's just you're right though. That there's that sweetness in there. All right.

SPEAKER_06 1:00:22

So what are we getting? Let's see what we got going in the glass.

SPEAKER_05 1:00:27

We got poured a little too much for me to do that, Jeff. And plus I'm out of space on my table here. So I'll just feel the old-fashioned way.

SPEAKER_06 1:00:34

I mean, you're gonna when it when it the the legs release, they're long, they're thick. I mean, from that. So let's see what the body is. Wow. It even tastes better now.

SPEAKER_05 1:01:04

Banana bread even jumps out in the taste, man. Maybe even some hazelnut chocolate. I don't but the body.

SPEAKER_06 1:01:14

The mouth, it's the mouth feel, it's weird because most of the time the body has to do with the whiskey flavor and sting. Like a big, and this does not have a sting. There's no doubt about it. There's no sting. But the flavor. So out of four, I'll give it a three for body. Okay. Three out of four. It's above average. I mean, you don't get the sting, but the flavor is all-encompassing. You do a Kentucky chew and you can taste it. You taste it, but it, you know, because it doesn't have that four or five body that something else would have, but it definitely has a really nice. So what are you thinking?

SPEAKER_05 1:02:17

It's not sticking with you, right? It's just it's the flavors are more prolific than you know, that sting that would be. Yeah. I'm in agree with you, Jeff. I think I'm gonna go on a three as well for the body. It's it's solid.

SPEAKER_06 1:02:34

Banging away on the barrel. All right. Taste, palate.

SPEAKER_05 1:02:47

It's definitely got a creamy creamy feel to it.

SPEAKER_06 1:02:54

There's a banana, there's it's almost like a banana coconut pie.

SPEAKER_05 1:03:04

I can see that. I don't get the coconuts as much.

SPEAKER_06 1:03:08

I get a little bit. It's banana, and then all of a sudden there's like a little bit of like uh caram candy.

SPEAKER_05 1:03:16

Like a soft caramel candy. I've been eating those lately. Let me know if I'm wrong. Not not really.

SPEAKER_06 1:03:32

The banana.

SPEAKER_05 1:03:35

Banana overrides the thing.

SPEAKER_06 1:03:37

Maybe a banana split with just caramel on it, no strawberry or black. Just like banana ice cream and caramel.

SPEAKER_05 1:03:50

Yeah. The caramel's not heavy. It's I I no your palate's way more refined than mine, but I feel like it's there. It's really delicious. It is. I gotta, I gotta, I'm not gonna be able to.

SPEAKER_06 1:04:12

Good thing you don't have to work tomorrow. I do. I gotta go back. I gotta go back and to Amazon.

SPEAKER_05 1:04:21

Jesus Christ. Well, Joe, Jeff, you're an old pro at this on Tuesdays and Thursdays, so this is nothing, man.

SPEAKER_06 1:04:26

Oh, nothing. Yeah, nothing.

SPEAKER_05 1:04:28

Uh so I'm up for taste, huh?

SPEAKER_06 1:04:32

You are up for taste.

SPEAKER_05 1:04:33

I'm gonna be honest with you, man. That banana is is there. I get some of that caramel. Nothing, not heavy, like I do in like some of the other Kentucky ones. Creamy, maybe like a banana with pie crust. Like you saw, like a banana cream pie almost. A little bit of baking spice. Do you taste that?

SPEAKER_06 1:04:59

A little bit of baking spice in there? I don't get I'll give you like one percent. Yeah, but I mean it's really much. If you're gonna go off the baking spice, it's gonna be on the on the finish. That's where I pick up and I and what you giving this baby out of five. You know what? I'm gonna give it a four. I like that. And I concur.

SPEAKER_05 1:05:36

Alright, tiny with a f.

SPEAKER_06 1:05:39

Are you writing this down? So far, Martin Nash has got zero, so I don't know why Martin's not kicking in, but you know.

SPEAKER_05 1:05:48

He's got a grandchild on his knee right now, bouncing him up and down. We love you, Super Nash. We just played with you. All right, buddy, you're up on the finish.

SPEAKER_06 1:06:00

That's easy for me. Honestly, it's the weakest part of the link. Finish is short to medium. All right, here we go. It can hold on to the banana long enough, but then it goes to some sort of baking spice, and it leaves you almost with like the level of baking soda as the finish. There's just not much. There's a spice, there's some stuff, but you know what I'm saying? Like the sweetness, once the sweetness is gone, there's like this powder. So like it's almost like a not a malt, but just some sort of I don't know. Like, it's like what's left after you have to drink baking soda to calm your stomach. You know what I'm saying? So I would say on the finish. It's not so out of five, you're saying. So I've given it a five out of four, and then a three out of four, which is eight out of eight.

SPEAKER_05 1:07:32

And then we're sitting at twelve right now.

SPEAKER_06 1:07:34

Twelve. I would say the finish to me is the weak spot of this, and I would give it a two. And it's only because with the finish, you know, when you're getting all these flavors and everything, you want something to change or whatever. And instead it retains its its taste for the start of the finish, but then instead of coming up with a surprise or an oak or a leather, it just kind of does this neutral thing. You know what I'm saying?

SPEAKER_05 1:08:11

Yeah, I do agree. I think there's a faint bit of oak there. It's not like a lot of the Kentucky ones we we sip. You were talking about some kind of that spice. I don't know if it's like a clove. It's not, it's there, but it's not heavy. And it just, yeah, there's no hugging really. So I think it's flavorful enough at the end for me to go three on the finish. I'm gonna be generous to do a three.

SPEAKER_06 1:08:41

All right. So doesn't that make us even? What do we got here? I think I think we're both 14 out of 18.

SPEAKER_05 1:08:52

14, yeah. We got eight. Yeah, we did 14, so we're averaging 14 out of 1.

SPEAKER_06 1:08:59

I mean, I'm 18, right? Yeah, I mean, that is not, you know, when you're talking about nine being an average and you're at 14 out of 18. I mean, and you're a craft distillery and you're putting out something like this, definitely the old Louisville whiskey company barrel bottle breakdown of Koval four-grain whiskey, a 14 out of 18. Pretty damn good.

SPEAKER_05 1:09:26

I would agree, man. I think this is very good. Yeah, I'd be excited to see if we can find some of their other stuff that comes out. I'll go back and look online because they do have some, and maybe Randy was mentioning it too, but they do have some higher age expression, but those only come out, you know, here and there.

SPEAKER_06 1:09:46

So one of the cool things about having Chat GPT do an outline and some research is that it also pays attention to what I'm doing all day long. So one of the things is, and we both agreed, Koval's versatility, and cocktails, both their bourbon and their rye, we felt would make good cocktails. But pairing it with Fresh Victor, and then it says tie-in, and it's like I didn't I didn't ask it or do anything, it just comes up with it on its own because Fresh Victor is going to be a part of the podcast, I believe, May 19th, because they make cocktail mixers instead of just having cranberry juice or orange juice or you know, whatever, they come up with their own all-natural, all organic certified cocktail mixers, which they will mix juices together to make the perfect cocktail. Now, doesn't always go with whatever. I'm searching to figure it out with bourbon. So look forward to that. But I would say that which would you what do you think is the better cocktail mixer, the rye or the bourbon?

SPEAKER_05 1:11:09

I'm gonna be honest with you, I think that rye would probably be a better mixer. I think that would actually make it the rye old fashioned, you know. Yeah. They're both decent. They really are. I just you know, with a lower proof on the rye, too. Kind of makes that easier to mix up and you're not guilty if you have three ounces instead of two.

SPEAKER_06 1:11:33

Yeah. I would say both of them, yeah, you could make a double with these with these easily. So it'll get you where you need to go and still make a good cocktail, right?

SPEAKER_05 1:11:46

Yeah. I'm looking at Facebook and Ed Porter says the best cocktail hack blend bourbons and rice together is the base. Koval bourbon and coval rye blended together could be cool. You know, Ed, you might have something there.

SPEAKER_06 1:12:00

Yeah, unlike mixing lemon cello and leather and oak rye, which I still haven't come up with the name, but I have to. So what our our favorite Koval expression was obviously the four-grain. You know, we did think the wheat the wheat whiskey is pretty damn good for wheat whiskey, but the four-grain was unique and flavorful. This one, this four-grain was oats, malted barley, rye, and wheat. So that's kind of cool. You know what I mean? Definitely no corn.

SPEAKER_05 1:12:33

You unique. I mean, really unique. That's real sweet. And you know, Matt Lyzen, you're watching maybe still. I think they do have an Amberano ride that they might whip off. So give them a look, dude.

SPEAKER_06 1:12:45

Well, no, we'll just have to pick that up at the Cubs game.

SPEAKER_05 1:12:49

Yeah.

Chicago Whiskey Versus Kentucky

SPEAKER_06 1:12:50

There you go. We'll go back to Lincoln Bard Benny's and uh visit our bartender buddy and yeah, and and do a do a do a papy flight. That was fun. All right, Chicago versus Kentucky. I don't think there's this is not a comparison. You can't compare Kentucky versus Chicago or Illinois. They're all you're unique in their own different way. It's not, this is not Kentucky whiskey, and it shouldn't be. I've never craft distillers, you shouldn't try and make Kentucky whiskey ever because Kentucky does Kentucky bourbons just fine. We need variety, and this is the market these days. So you set yourself the, I think they've set themselves apart from the Kentucky, you know, bourbon extravaganza and really defined themselves as a distillery, correct?

SPEAKER_05 1:13:47

I would agree. 100% agree with that. Yeah, you can't compare it to the Kentucky stuff.

SPEAKER_06 1:13:51

And I just uh And you gotta admit, during we're sitting there hanging out at the distillery that and and Koval is in 50 markets, and the the the I wouldn't say the tour was hugely impressive or anything different. It was had a nice little thing and a tasting, but then the bar was just jumping. And and it was jumping enough to make you want to drink what they're serving. And it does a nice job.

SPEAKER_05 1:14:25

So yeah, and I mean these are a small operation, right? Like you said, they're a craft distillery, you know, they're they're their whiskey is a big thing with them, but they do gym, they you know, they've got other things, liqueurs and uh maybe some brandy in there too, because that's what that coup de still is is popular for with whiskeys and in brandies, excuse me. So, you know, like I said earlier, if you're sort of living in the Chicago area, if you're in Chicago or in the area, get down to Koval. I mean, it's a neat little experience, doesn't blow you away, but you know, it's something to do. And you know, hey, you got a distillery in the city that was able to become the distillery, you know, since the mid-1800s, and that's that's kind of a neat thing for Chicago.

Why 375ml Bottles Matter

SPEAKER_06 1:15:09

Right. And then also coming up on Thursday, the thing that I'm gonna cover is 375 distillery releases, 375 milliliter distillery releases are very popular and unique. And this I would say that Caval's two three two hundreds, that's that's right there too. This is a 375 right here. The they're very unique. We've got a bunch of them. Uh Jim Beam releases them. We'll cover some of those. And also Old Forester releases 375s, yellow uh Limestone Branch. The 375 is making its way into, and then also Bardstone Bourbon Company with the what is it? The Cathedral, the 375. I'm really liking these releases, and that's what the podcast is going to be about on Thursday, those 375s.

SPEAKER_05 1:16:07

Because yeah, I've got a few. Sorry, Jeff, I got a few myself too. Even Buffalo Trace, like Meloy's here in Golanoa next to me with the town over, they did a Buffalo Trace barrel pick and they had the 750s and 375s.

SPEAKER_06 1:16:20

Well, so it allows, it allows for more people to. I mean, a 750 when you think about it, and us as collectors, honestly, you gotta admit, it's too much, unless it's just phenomenal. Like if it's if it's Russell's 13, you don't, you know, but what a 375 does is makes that release more available to more people, and also more treasured because you only have 375 milliliters. But it's the right, in my opinion, everything should be 375 because more people then would be able to have it. And then, you know, per bottle, it's just you know, you have double the amount of bottles, and and and nobody needs this much whiskey that I that we have.

SPEAKER_05 1:17:15

Yeah, we've all got problems, and we're all gonna sit on this podcast and admit that. Yeah, you know, to think about that too. 375s are a lot easier to store, right? Than the than the, you know, you got a cabinet, you got a shelf. You can you can put a few more of them on there, but yeah, I've got a couple too. Even Fry Ranch. I've got one of their standard ones. Yeah. Uh I got a four-grain pick. Sorry, I'm reaching across here. I did a four-grain, there was a four-grain pick without at Malloy's, and then they you bought this one and you got like for like a penny or a dollar, you got one of their basic 375. So, you know, it's kind of fun to have those little guys around. I agree.

SPEAKER_06 1:17:56

Well, yeah. And that's what Thursday's podcast is gonna be. And, you know, the one thing that Koval is is their name. I mean, Koval means black sheep. And that just means, you know, something different. It's not the same. And this definitely fits into that, especially that four-grain. It's unique, like nothing, nothing that you've had before. I mean, banana bread, it uh it's yeah, it just has that little bit of, and that's based off of all those grains. So fantastic podcast, uh, John. Thanks for joining us tonight.

SPEAKER_05 1:18:33

Welcome. Thanks for letting me be on with you, man. This was fun.

SPEAKER_06 1:18:35

Yeah, everybody, it's not over on Facebook and YouTube when this hits. I will throw it out to the audience to come on for a couple minutes, but I would like to get this uploaded tonight and online. So I'm gonna be around for a little bit, but I'll probably pass it off to you, John, or if you can, because you definitely right now are on spring break. So you're gonna definitely there's no spring break for me and lots of stuff to do. We are headed to Wisconsin on Friday. We'll drive Friday. So I'll be waving by at you probably about 10 o'clock on Friday, to passing through Chicago and then up to Wisconsin, and then we're going to uh be way. Well, who knows? Maybe I can convince her to stop by on Monday on our way back.

SPEAKER_05 1:19:26

I'll be back at work.

SPEAKER_06 1:19:27

You will. That's true. Yeah, yep.

SPEAKER_05 1:19:29

Yep, I don't get Easter Monday off, buddy. I gotta go back, man. It is what it is. But you're going up for Easter, I'm sure.

Wrap Up Thanks And Sign Off

SPEAKER_06 1:19:35

Yeah, we're going up for Easter and then driving back on that Monday. So, yep, that's what we're gonna be doing. But there will be no missed podcast dates. So look forward to this Thursday. We'll be doing, we'll be covering those 375s, and that brings us to this point. Remember, we're the Scotchy Bourbon Boys, www.scotchybourbonboys.com for all things Scotchy Bourbon Boys. You got the t-shirts, you got the glens, and then also remember we're on Facebook, YouTube, Instagram, and X. Make sure that you listen to us on Apple, iHeart, and Spotify, and anywhere else podcasts are available, we'll be there. Remember, leave good feedback, make sure you become members, write good reviews. So just generally support us overall. All right. And remember, good bourbon equals good friends, John. Here's the friendship. And make sure that you don't drink and drive, make sure that you drink responsibly, and you live your life uncut and unfiltered. And here we go.