Distillery Blind Tasting with Blender & Head of Maturation Ryan Venrick of Watershed Distillery

We hand Watershed the keys and let Ryan Venrick run our first distillery-led blind tasting, and we learn fast that we’re not as good at guessing as we think. The reveals turn into a real lesson on slow water reduction, finishing choices, and how Watershed is reshaping Ohio bourbon from the barrel up. 
• Ryan’s career path from bottling line to blending and barrel management 
• Why Watershed’s bourbon portfolio changed after the mash bill shift 
• Blind tasting format and why pairing samples exposes process differences 
• Apple brandy finish side-by-side with crash dilution vs slow reduction 
• How slow water reduction affects mouthfeel, perceived proof, and flavor 
• Bottled-in-bond vs toasted bourbon and what “toasted” is meant to add 
• Uncut Unfiltered Batch 7 reveal and why proof placement matters in tastings 
• Nochino finished bourbon and the labor of harvesting unripe walnuts 
• The elevage program and why only a small number of distilleries do it 
• Watershed closing the restaurant and building new on-site experiences 
• What’s coming next: OHLQ single barrels, fall finishes, maple finale, Japan tease 
• Blending philosophy: start with a base then shape with “one trick pony” barrels 
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Crash dilute or slow reduce, can you actually taste the difference? We bring on Ryan from Watershed and hand him full control of a five-pour blind tasting built to show where Watershed has been and where their bourbon is headed. The curveball: two glasses are the exact same apple brandy finished whiskey at the exact same proof, but diluted two different ways. Once you hear what’s happening in those barrels, you’ll never think about proofing water the same way again.

From there we work through the lineup and put names to what our palates are telling us: a core Bottled-in-Bond, a limited toasted bourbon done with a short, targeted finish, and a final punchy reveal that lands at 123 proof with Uncut Unfiltered Batch 7. Along the way we get into the real “why” behind mouthfeel, perceived heat, oak extraction, and how slow water reduction can preserve flavor compounds and create a more cohesive pour. If you love blind tastings, barrel finishes, and nerdy whiskey process talk that stays practical, this one delivers.

We also zoom out to the bigger story of Ohio whiskey. Ryan shares how Watershed is building an elevage-style program, why scaling techniques like slow reduction is hard, and what’s next as they invest in better visitor experiences like a blending class and a bottle-your-own option. We talk upcoming OHLQ single barrels, the fall finishing series, and why the maple finish is designed for balance, not syrup.

Subscribe, share this with a bourbon friend who swears they can always call the bottle blind, and leave us a review. After you listen, which pour would you choose and why?

voice over Whiskey Thief

If You Have Gohsts

Transcript

Sponsor And Responsible Drinking

SPEAKER_00 0:58

I'm here to tell you about Whiskey Thief Distilling Company and their newly opened tasting world. Whether you are up for a farmed class distilling experience on the Three Boys Farm in Frankfurt, Kentucky, or an out-of-this world tasting experience in New York, you won't be disappointed. At both locations, their barrel picked all day, every day, are like none of them. Each location features with five barrels, each featuring their pot and still bourbons and rock. Once the barrels have been on the group and tasted, you can make a selection and take a bottle. Remember to always drink responsibly, never drink and dry, drink and live your life on touch and unfiltered. Ryan, oh my god. Venrik, I got it. It came to me. And welcome, Ryan. You're you're like the comeback podcast guy for Watershed. It's like welcome to the podcast. Beautiful. Thanks for having me, guys. Glad to be here. And then we also have CT. CT's in the house.

SPEAKER_05 3:37

What's up, everybody? Glad to be here. Obviously, it's a fine Thursday evening, and technical difficulties have plagued us, but we're gonna power through it.

SPEAKER_00 3:48

And then we have Matt from COR. Welcome, Matt.

SPEAKER_05 3:54

Yes, sir.

SPEAKER_00 3:58

Yeah, but this podcast tonight, I'm so excited for, is it's our first ever distillery-run blind tasting. We've done blinds before, but nothing like this. It's nothing, nothing. And we're so excited, Ryan, for you to emcee us tonight through this line of whatever we're gonna be drinking. Because because honestly, I've got actually I I'm like, I'm trying to think and I'm like, no clue.

SPEAKER_06 4:31

Well, hopefully, uh hopefully this ends up being a fun experience and not uh not a uh so hopeful by the end of it.

SPEAKER_05 4:41

Ryan, just remember friends send friends good stuff.

SPEAKER_00 4:45

Don't be decimals. I would say it can't, I don't I don't care what you say. Blinds are so much fun. It it it kind of like now, I mean hopefully it's through all watershed stuff, right?

SPEAKER_06 5:03

Yes, all the I will tell you that all the samples are come from our liquid r blends. So yeah, that's that's as far as I'm gonna tell you.

SPEAKER_05 5:14

Let me just tell you, he's always trying to mess with you. Yesterday, he was he sets down a glass and he's like, here, and and tries to mess with me. But I think I got him. He didn't know. I I knew what it was.

SPEAKER_06 5:33

You did, you did know what it was. I think you I think you knew what it was before you got there. A little bit, but you you also nailed it right on the nose as soon as you smelled it.

SPEAKER_05 5:40

Dude, that it was a man, Armagnac, I I'm in. You know, it's it's just got a it's got a lovely, lovely fragrance to it that I was excited about. So yeah, that was a lot of fun. So we have been like, and it's funny, it's great that Matt's on today because Matt and I, Jeff and I, but Matt and I for years have like talked about different releases that come out. Jeff and I obviously do, but Matt's probably the only other one that's got like local that's like, hey, did you get that? Did you get that? So it's good that he's here because one thing you guys have always been big about is lottery bottles, a lot of single barrels. I feel like Watershed was doing single barrels, you know, pretty it's that was pretty much your portfolio plus the the standard stuff for a long time.

Ryan’s Path Into Blending

SPEAKER_06 6:38

Yeah, I would say post the match build changes, so switching from a five grain to a three-grain, a lot of what people knew us were was single barrels. Our cast range stuff shines so well with that four or five, six-year-old range. And that was definitely the shining star there for a few years. Until yeah, we started changing some stuff. We brought on Aaron Harris back in 2021. My star event shortly after that, in September of that year. And then we've just been kind of going through a pretty big transformation ever since then.

SPEAKER_05 7:10

Well, bring it on Aaron, and and what Aaron obviously did is a great guy to follow, follow behind and learn from because I don't think everybody knows, but I think it's a cool story of you is you didn't get into this to be a distiller. Like that's not like your like man, I I'm a distiller, here I am. Fire quick.

SPEAKER_06 7:33

Yeah, totally. I I'll even admit to this day, I I my knowledge around the stills and in that side of the process is still very limited. It's now I made some major strides, and I I know enough to be dangerous, some would say. But my my forte is definitely on the back end, on the on the maturation, on all the blending, all the single barrel program stuff. That's that's definitely where I shine. But yeah, just exactly what you said, Chris. I I didn't go into this necessarily looking to get into this industry. Um, it was kind of uh almost by necessity. Um, I was at a point in my life where I've been working warehouse jobs ever since I was 18. Just trying to, you know, make as much money as I can, chasing that dollar. And one day it just kind of came to a came to a head and I turned on my wife my girlfriend now wife and said, I I gotta do something different. Like I I can't just go and collect a check. I I need to do something fulfilling. This is sucking the life out of me. And I've been collecting for quite a while before this this this transcendent moment, so to speak. So I I knew what bourbon was, I knew what went into it. And so we, you know, supportive wife. She says, Why don't you look at some distilleries in Columbus and the Ohio area? And I kind of gave her a funny look and I said, There's there's no good distilleries in Ohio, like you gotta go to Kentucky, right? Everybody thinks that that's where all the bourbon's made is in Kentucky. So I humored her. I was like, Yeah, okay, let's do a Google search. And there was more that popped up than what I was anticipating, which was a great thing. Watershed was one of the first ones that popped up, Metro West, Echo, High Bank, all the staples that are kind of in that same area in downtown. And so I just started applying. Um, Wat was hiring for a bottling line position. Echo was hiring for it, wasn't for the distillery, it was for I believe it was some something to do with the bar, obviously. High bank, same thing. It was for the restaurant duties. And then Middle West. I think theirs was in a production setting, but I knew going into that I didn't have a shot just with no experience and they wanted technical knowledge to run the stills and stuff. So, you know, you you know toss a dart at the wall just to see if it hits, but that one didn't, unfortunately. But Watershed did contact me the very next day. So I did all these applications at the same time. The very next day I got a phone call. So we set up an interview for the following week. The interview went really, really well, and then I started two weeks later. Obviously, all my experience in the warehousing, with kickpacking, all that really drew drew them to me for the bottling line. You know, that my experience was really relative for that. So yeah, started in September of 2021. I did that for about a year. I was on the bottling line from September till the following August. During that time, Aaron was on the distiller, very generous with his time, really cared for his people. And I just started asking him, like, hey, I'm really interested in the blending process and the barreling process. Can I start sitting in on some blends with you? Can we can I start chasing through single barrels with you? And he said, Absolutely, like, let's do it. More knowledge, the better. So he did that for that was probably like February, March-ish. So I did that for about nine months. And then when he departed us in August of 2021, I went to Greg, the owner at the time, and said, Hey, I see a huge need for this now that Aaron's gone. I want to step up and fill that role. I'm confident my abilities. Can you trust me? And crazy Greg Lehman, given this guy with one year of industry experience, and it's not even direct industry experience, I'm just on the body line. He said, Let's do it. Um, he saw the passion, he saw the drive, he saw the want to learn, and and he was all about nurturing those passions and those drives. And so yeah, he let me do my own blends for a couple bourbon, uh, couple bourbon releases, and the rest is all she wrote. He thought they were really good. Obviously, looking to the future in 2023, we won double gold for our uncut unfiltered. We won a double gold for our six-year barrel strength rye. Those were both my projects that I got to work on. So, yeah, it's been a crazy ride, but yeah, not one that I really saw for myself or even intended for myself right off the rip.

SPEAKER_00 11:54

Well, so when you did the six-year barrel strength rye, the five the five-year was released the earl the year before, right? Or was that the was that the barrel? I mean, I I was with Aaron a lot, and there was a rye barrel in there that was insane. So was that the first release or the second release that you that you did associated with?

SPEAKER_06 12:20

Yeah, so that was the very first rye release we did that the youngest that that release has been is six years old. Right. So we had two two six-year-olds, and then this last one was an eight-year-old. So yeah, it it's I'm not sure. I wasn't a part of the the tasting process for those barrels. Obviously, we only had they only distilled five barrels of that back in 2016. Um, so it was a very limited stock. But yeah, I never I didn't get to taste those super early on. I didn't start tasting them until they were already six years old.

SPEAKER_00 13:23

Now okay, go ahead, Chris.

SPEAKER_05 13:26

So you you you and I talked about this. The original allotment of ride that you guys did was five barrels, correct? Correct, yeah. That's all the that's been all the limited release stuff. And since then, so you guys laid that down. It's kind of like, all right, we'll see what happens, but you're back in that game. You know, people don't realize that you do you guys in behind the scenes are now approaching almost five years old of a new version, a re remodified version, I guess you could say, of your Rye.

SPEAKER_06 13:59

Yeah, absolutely. We're we're about to enter the Rye game. We're probably still about a year away, but in terms of whiskey maturation, that's pretty close when you're talking about five, six, seven years down the road. We're we're on the cusp of it. Well, so yeah, we started making Aaron.

SPEAKER_00 14:15

Yeah, go ahead. Aaron left in 2021, right? And August of 2022. 22, okay. So, but he was there from 2020, 2021, and 2020, uh part of 2022, right? I believe so, correct? March of 2022.

SPEAKER_06 14:32

Yeah, so he started in Q1 of 2021 and then left us in Q3 of 2022. So just over a year.

SPEAKER_00 14:40

Okay, so we're out his stuff is now five years old. It's his new is stuff that he was doing right away. So yeah, it's exciting.

SPEAKER_06 14:50

Yeah, yeah. So our oldest rye barrels that we have from when we started making rye again, we didn't make any ride until 2022. So we're we just eclipsed four years old on some of our newest stuff.

SPEAKER_00 15:02

Okay.

SPEAKER_06 15:03

Are you guys gonna keep the label blue on the rise? That I'm not sure. I'm involved in a lot of stuff, but label design and label specifications is not my four Terry. So if it if it was up to me, I think we'll change it a little bit, as much as my opinion matters the marketing. Just something to separate the limited release from the core portfolio. I I imagine it'll change color a little bit.

SPEAKER_00 15:28

Well, I mean, honestly, you could change it to green.

SPEAKER_06 15:33

That's what I was thinking. Like, are they gonna go green? Yeah, yeah, who knows? I wouldn't mind green.

SPEAKER_00 15:41

We don't have a green label in the portfolio, so it's true, and most rye people look for green. They walk, they walk in to a to and start looking on the shelf, and the first thing if they're a rye guy, they're just looking for all the green labels.

SPEAKER_06 15:57

Yeah, which is which is hilarious because rye, once it's ready to harvest, is is not green.

SPEAKER_00 16:03

No.

SPEAKER_06 16:04

I don't I don't know where that came from, the origin story of the color green for rye.

SPEAKER_00 16:08

I don't I don't either. It just it's just like burned in your brain, I guess.

SPEAKER_05 16:14

Right.

SPEAKER_06 16:14

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 16:15

It's like that muscle memory, right? I'm gonna start pouring mine in the glass, so at least I'm ready for you here in a little bit. But walk us through what the lineup is like right now. Like if somebody goes into the store, they see a bottle. What what are they gonna be able to get as a standard bottle on the shelf? And what is a limited release, I guess, of this for 2026? Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 16:43

Good question. Yeah, so we have three main core portfolios for bourbon. The first one, obviously, is that four-year-old bourbon blended straight whiskeys that's got some Apple Grady finished bourbon in it. They're gonna find a bottled and bond, which is our standard hunter-proof four-year-old solid whiskey. Uh eventually the age statement on that's gonna go up for us a little bit, but right now we're keeping it at four. Um, and then you're also gonna be able to find the yellow label uncut on filter. Uh so that originally the concept for that was it was a limited release. Um, and then it sold so well that we added it to our portfolio permanently. So that one you could find all year round, all the time as well. That's because batch one was a pineapple bomb.

SPEAKER_05 17:30

Yeah. Batch one had a really special set of barrels.

SPEAKER_06 17:35

This is one of my favorite bottles ever. Yeah, it was just a it was just a tropical fruit sensation. Yeah, the majority of that blend, and it's a blend, that specific one was four to six year old barrels. But the majority of it, probably seven, at least seven percent of the blend of six-shield barrels.

SPEAKER_05 17:57

So now we're on badge seven. Is it still basically a one a year release? Is that what you're kind of doing with uncut unfiltered?

SPEAKER_06 18:08

Roughly it's it's gone up to about two for a year now. Um just adding it to the core portfolio. We always want to make sure we have you know OHLQ stocked, we don't want any outages anywhere. So it's averaged out to about two a year since 2023.

SPEAKER_05 18:23

All right, so before we talk about all these other ones, because they may be in our glass, who knows? Have you guys poured your samples?

SPEAKER_00 18:32

No, I have them poured the first one.

SPEAKER_05 18:34

Are we pouring all five again?

SPEAKER_00 18:36

Well, if I pour all five, I'm gonna get I'm gonna get mixed up, so I'm gonna pour them at one at a time. All right, well, I mean, you numbered Ryan, you did the numbering of the bottles so perfect. I'm like, well, if I pour them in the glass and I get my glass mixed up, so I just go off. I I'm going right there with one.

unknown 18:59

All right.

SPEAKER_06 18:59

So let's dive into what the Yeah, to help you guys out a little bit, the way we're gonna do this, the way it's structured, we're gonna do two at a time, and then sample number five, we're gonna taste on its own.

SPEAKER_00 19:11

Okay.

SPEAKER_06 19:12

As long as you don't, so as long as you keep one glass in your right hand and one glass in your left hand, Jeff, you won't mix them up.

SPEAKER_00 19:20

So so talk about so talk about how much fun this was for you to come up with a blind for for a podcast where you you I do blinds all the time, and you're always thinking about your blinds, especially if you're blinding other people. Like what do you want to, you know, what do you want them to experience? What do you, you know, what but you know, talk about that when you were doing this, how you were thinking about it.

SPEAKER_06 19:49

Yeah, absolutely. So with this set specifically, I really wanted to showcase where watershed has been and where watershed is going. And that's why we're gonna do this kind of in pairs. If you talk to anybody that had early watershed, and I say that very specifically, um I had mentioned that I had mentioned once already that our old our previous mash bill, our five-grade mash bill, was corn, rye, wheat, malted barley, and spelt. Anyone who had that distillate early was not the greatest. It was young, Greg and Dave, the business partners were releasing it way too early, which you can't blame them. It's just two guys trying to hustle to make some money to keep the lights on.

SPEAKER_00 20:32

Well, they they did it, they did a fantastic hustle, though. I mean, that that's where they that was their strength right there. They got that, they got that in every liquor store, and they got it to bars like in massive amounts. So, I mean, they did a good job as far as the hustle. There's no doubt about it.

SPEAKER_06 20:53

Absolutely, absolutely. Yeah, I remember I remember Greg telling a story once where when they were first started, they had their they had their first distillet out. They had been producing gin for about a year or two now, and they were still working, they they weren't even working full-time at the distillery, they still had day jobs at the time. And Greg said that he'd get off work with with Pfizer, you know, selling pharmaceuticals, and he'd load up the trunk and go and try to hand sell some bottles. So, yeah, they yeah, you're absolutely right. The the these two at their heart, they were hustlers. And so, yeah, the going back to the old mash bill, anybody that had it early, it wasn't the greatest. It was young, it wasn't matured, the mash bill wasn't great, it just needed more time. And so now we fast forward to 20 to 20 uh 2015, 2016. They we changed the mash bill to a three-grain high rise. So 72% corn, 21% rye, 7% malted barley. And that's really what started when we released the four-year and the bottled in bond together in 2020. That was the mash bill change for all these bottles. Um, and that's when we started to gain some traction with the bourbon community.

Samples One And Two First Impressions

SPEAKER_00 22:05

Well, and that's pretty much coincides with Aaron, and then eventually Anne coming on. They, you know, they did a really good job there, along with you were there. I mean, that was your hire, right? And you know, and things you could sense that in in my opinion, it's just my opinion. I felt when they came on, there was a dedication to the whiskey and the bourbon that was a little bit up till that point, they you know, it almost felt like um Greg, Greg really liked gin. You know what I mean? And it felt like that the the he was making the whiskey, but the whiskey was not the it was the gin that he that they even the releases sometimes those gin releases, I mean when it comes to gin, that it was spectacular almost consistently throughout, you know. Whereas the whiskey then when they came on, there the the what would you say, there was a a commitment to the whiskey and the gin.

SPEAKER_06 23:12

Totally, yeah. I would agree with that for sure. Yeah, going back to you know, just them being hustlers, obviously gin and vodka that keeps the lights on, right? Yeah, urban's kind of the passion project. So it was almost not a necessity, I feel like, that that they were so dedicated to the gin. And then as they kind of got some more capital, put Some money in their pocket, they could invest more in the bourbon. And absolutely, I would agree. When when those guys came on in 2020 and 2021, you kind of saw this revolution of, you know, we don't we we're not just making good gin, we're making good bourbons too. And so that was kind of the launch for our bourbon portfolio.

SPEAKER_00 23:50

All right. So what are we gonna do? We're gonna take one first. You guys ready to smell and those and quit talking and catch up.

SPEAKER_06 23:58

That's what you gotta do. Yeah, so we're gonna take we're gonna do the first two. So smell and taste the first two. Just freely discuss it if you guys want, and then I'll tell you what they are and and kind of what we're what we're dealing with.

SPEAKER_05 24:12

I'm not saying a word.

SPEAKER_00 24:14

Why?

SPEAKER_05 24:15

Because I think I know what they are. And I know why they are what they are. That's probably more of how I know it. Number one's brushing. I like number one. You know, there's a slow reduction guy, you know.

SPEAKER_00 24:35

I would I like both of them.

SPEAKER_05 24:40

I do too. Number one has more like a tried, a dry fruit note I would.

SPEAKER_00 24:44

That's not one of the early. The really early one that you were talking about.

SPEAKER_05 24:56

It's kind of like when you go back to Jack Daniels number seven. When you first started drinking bourbon, it tasted like gasoline, but now you drink it and you're like, oh, I do get the the flavors that are in there, you know, because you've drink enough stuff that you kind of pick it up.

SPEAKER_00 25:11

You've killed enough taste buds. I always say, young people are always like, it burns, it burns. It's like because your taste buds are still new. It's just like when you when you get to be in your 40s, late, you know, even the late 30s, 40s, 50s, 60s, it's like you burned them off, you still can taste, but but the hot part is gone.

SPEAKER_06 25:37

Right? Yeah. Yeah. I'm trying to find out about the acclimation period. Are we are we allowed to guess here, or how's that work? You can if you want.

SPEAKER_05 25:52

I know. I feel like I'm gonna be totally wrong, but the first one has like apple notes on it, like big notes. So I would say that this one has to be like the apple brandy. Am I wrong?

SPEAKER_00 26:00

Like an apple brandy cask.

SPEAKER_05 26:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 26:03

You're wrong. Damn it. I'm not making if you haven't tried glass two, go to glass two now.

SPEAKER_05 26:16

I'm not saying a word because I I literally think I know what this is going, what what what's happening here? Are you trying to find the actual bottle, Chris? I thought you in the background. I can't find the bottle because it's at my shop. It's it's in my office, that's why.

SPEAKER_00 26:31

Out of all the people, I as far as someone who just so you know that for someone uh, you know, you Ryan, you work there. And for if but for someone who doesn't work there, CT probably knows the watershed line better than anybody else on the planet. And well, technically he should be working there.

SPEAKER_06 26:59

I've offered him twice to put him on payroll now, and he keeps shut me down.

SPEAKER_05 27:02

So yeah, I'm not I can't drive a forklift. It would be bad.

SPEAKER_00 27:08

I'm good, I could drive a forklift. Do it all day, every day.

SPEAKER_05 27:12

Yep. You guess, and then I'm gonna guess what I think it's. I said there's I have no I feel like my my thing of guessing what this was was probably the wrong aspect. I probably should have just said what I tasted it because I'm probably gonna be wrong. Say what you know, Matt, you should, because you can be absolutely right. I'm there is no way that I'm gonna guess right. It's there's so many things, but what this is the fun of it. You guess what you think, and you're you may be right.

SPEAKER_00 27:41

Both of them have the cinnamon. I'm gonna say they they both have an apple brandy ass cast finish, but I could be wrong.

SPEAKER_05 27:54

I I still think the first one tastes more like apples and pigs. Like this one is more like fruit notes. And this one I can't really put my finger on what this one tastes like. I like the second one too, but I like them both.

Nochino Bourbon And Walnut Harvesting

SPEAKER_00 28:09

I can I I I know that. We're not doing any reveals until this damn thing is over. That's you don't like review, reveal one and two like in the middle. You gotta we gotta figure it out as we go along. Once five's tasted, then we'll we'll come up with one and two are we have to go to three now? Three and four, right?

SPEAKER_06 28:33

Yep, yes, yeah. So AF. That's how we want to do it. Yep. The next pair we're gonna do is three and four together, side by side.

SPEAKER_05 28:45

So these get a little darker Buckeye Lake, and you had your uh Notino pair from this here.

SPEAKER_06 28:54

Oh yeah. Oh yeah, the Notino finish is always a hit. I don't think it was so fun. We're we're the only distillery always a hit. That's that's hilarious. Yeah, so we're fun fact we're the only distillery uh in the country that's doing a Nochino finished bourbon. There's other distilleries that have done Nochino finished whiskey, but we're the only ones that have have done bourbon.

SPEAKER_00 29:28

Yeah, it it takes a it takes a dedication to make a whole 53 gallon barrel of Nochino. I mean, when you think about the amount of walnuts and the whole thing you guys do and all the crazy stuff, there's two two things that are crazy in my opinion that that are epitome of what distilleries will do, and I I pair them with it's nochino and it's lemoncello. Those are two things where that it the handling, the there's no machine, no nothing. It's all got to be hand done, and then it's gotta be fermented, and then once the fermenting's done, the distilling, and you kind of got to know what you're doing overall, but the amount that you have to do to fill a 53-gallon barrel to then have a barrel to finish whiskey in, that that's an awful lot of walnuts. I I mean I've been at I've been at your distill.

SPEAKER_06 30:32

What I can confirm, Jeff, it is a lot of walnuts.

SPEAKER_00 30:36

Yes, well, but it's similar to the bottling line. Some people have bottling lines where it's bad enough there's only four things. You can only fill four bottles at a time, but it's the labeling, it's similar to the labeling when people do the hand labeling. They don't got a labeler on the bottle, they basically have to peel the sticker off and put it on, and then write, you know, you guys you guys write on it. That means you have to have somebody. I mean, and as you get bigger, it gets more insane. Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 31:12

Yeah, the as you start to scale those type of projects up, the amount of labor hours that goes into them uh also increases.

SPEAKER_05 31:19

So my is not an efficient process. I drive around Columbus, like coming to your spot there in those little side roads that are one car wide, and you you have to pull over in somebody's driveway to let them come by you as you're going around. Um, is there a walnut tree farm, or do you just pick them up off the sidewalk when they fall and use them that way?

Samples Three And Four Guessing

SPEAKER_06 31:44

That's a great question. So they're they're actually, if you guys didn't know this, there's actually an Ohio Nut Brothers Association. So it's basically a giant co-op. And what they do is we for Nochino making, we have to have the walnuts in before they're ripe. So they have to be unripe. So these guys are actually going out to the trees and hence picking all the nuts off the trees. Once they hit the ground, they're too ripe to process on our end. What happens is the inside nut actually forms, and it's too hard for us to chop them up and process them. So all the nuts are picked, all the nuts are picked fresh off the trees, and they bring them right to the distillery and we process them that day. If we let them sit for any longer than 24 hours, that inside hall will start to harden up. So during nut season, usually between the first of July, and it's usually about a two to three week season for us. So when nuts come around, they start dropping them off, it's all hands-on deck trying to get them processed. It's nuts. It's nuts, it's nuts.

SPEAKER_05 32:47

Alright, so last three, you guys got any guesses on three? It's not three's the uncut and filter. I think so too. I I it's either uncut, it has that three note that's in the uncut unfiltered for me. If it's not I don't know. I gotta I gotta I gotta try four now.

SPEAKER_00 33:14

Well, you said uncut, unfiltered, and I'm looking at the bottle on three.

SPEAKER_05 33:19

And it's the lightest one.

SPEAKER_00 33:20

I don't see it. I don't see char.

SPEAKER_05 33:26

Well, he filtered it for and put it in these bottles for us, he wouldn't have seen anything. That's not how it's trying to give anything on the four is four's toasted.

SPEAKER_00 33:40

I can't maybe that's my opinion. Four's toasted. Four is the darkest of them all.

SPEAKER_05 33:48

I don't know.

SPEAKER_00 33:49

I think five is the darkest. Well, you you might be right.

SPEAKER_05 33:53

But four four reminds me of toasted.

SPEAKER_00 33:57

Okay.

SPEAKER_05 33:59

But I like three, though. It's it I feel like earlier today I had a cocktail with batch seven. I feel like that's kind of some of the nuances I'm getting out of that. Batch seven was fantastic. I fucking like too, by the way. It was. I I I picked it up yesterday when I was there hanging out. Um it's it's so good. The fruit notes that come out of it, it's just yeah. Yeah, seven's really well rounded. I think it's the closest. It feels like it goes a little back towards one. Some of the fruit tropical flute fruit flute fruit notes. Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 34:47

Alright. Yeah, it's fun to get to play with these these barrels as they kind of mature, you know. All of the bass ages are the same, but it's different allotment of barrels, so it's cool to for me to see the kind of the changes each season to season.

SPEAKER_05 35:00

Oh we go into five. This one. Hey, wait a minute. Uh you did not put any bardstown number three in this, did you? Oh god, no.

SPEAKER_06 35:25

Are you kidding me? Number number four like old.

SPEAKER_05 35:30

Yeah, Ryan's got a bottle of uh the uh number batch three of the uh a bottle or a barrel? A bottle.

SPEAKER_06 35:39

A bottle of Bardstown Discovery 3.

SPEAKER_00 35:42

Okay.

SPEAKER_06 35:42

It's amazing.

SPEAKER_00 35:44

Wait, it's incredible. Wait a second. I might have a b bottle of that.

SPEAKER_05 35:50

Oh, but you could use the one anymore.

SPEAKER_00 35:56

I could I could check that with once we're done with this because my bardstown collection is over there. Early on, I had two I had I was buying the I probably I'm for sure, have I might have one and two and three. And then, and then it was like, what would you say? How many more do I need? Every year it's different, but still, that you start to run out of room on your shelves.

SPEAKER_05 36:28

Yeah, yeah, if the answer is both of them, you gotta be picky at some point because there's you run out of room, like there's we know lucky to have like four answers.

SPEAKER_06 36:37

Two and two and three for me were absolutely phenomenal.

SPEAKER_00 36:41

Yeah. Hey Ryan, have you been to Chris's house?

SPEAKER_06 36:45

I have.

SPEAKER_00 36:46

Okay, so you know, unlike everybody else, like you see Matt's and and my collection behind me and all around me and everything, but but but where CT differs is that the room he's sitting in, that is, and I mean, he basically went from one room that was completely which all the stuff was on the walls and everything was there, and now he's done another room. So he actually has two rooms, and he still doesn't have enough for his whole collection. And hopefully he gets his speakeasy done in the basement one day, and then then he'll have the third room.

SPEAKER_06 37:30

Hey, whatever that is, Jeff. You know what you call that passion.

SPEAKER_00 37:36

I call it dedication. Passion and CT CT, I this this role that we're all on, yeah, you gotta get I gotta give you credit where credit is due. Between I think he's booked seven to my three, and I and then and there's been no like like all of a sudden ideas to do for podcasts are popping up, you know, because the further we get into AI, the more they it helps you, right? And there was like I got like three really good ideas for a podcast, and he just keeps booking every every week. At least he has an alternate week now that we head into the graduation season where there's an off week and uh, but he was even booking his off weeks because he kept and it's and it's and it's fantastic to have have you on, Ryan. And it's just like this is I kind of would say that it's perfect timing because when when I when when I first everybody knows that that's followed the podcast for a long time that that watershed was a spot, we sponsored our podcast. They were the second people to sponsor it, and it was a it was great. And I had an awful lot of watershed, and now I was just just you know, CT was doing this, and I was looking at the collection, and I'm like, I only got a couple bottles that aren't drank anymore. It's like good thing that that that we're gonna do watershed again, as far as not not I'm not talking about anything, I'm talking about as far as having you guys on and getting stuff, you know, and and sampling bottles and promoting the the brand.

SPEAKER_05 39:21

Hey Jeff, absolutely just like some especially Rachel, because we helped if you remember, that's one rye, the one that you wanted so bad, and what's crazy, I think I told you this story, Ryan, is like that's one rye when it went out. If you won the lottery, which I won, but Jeff didn't. But there was 20 some people who did not claim that bottle, and so Jeff was coming down, and he's like, but I'll never get there in time. So Rachel and I went and got numbers, and we got picked, so Jeff got a bottle.

SPEAKER_00 39:58

Yeah, and I we had we had people know now what they know.

SPEAKER_05 40:05

Holy crap!

SPEAKER_06 40:06

Like that bottle, the last two releases of that bottle, they're everyone's picked up. I think we never had a single leftover.

SPEAKER_00 40:13

I think, Matt, you do you still have that bottle? I think I think I let right.

SPEAKER_05 40:19

Uh I have batch two. So batch one when we shot it, that was Chris's bottle. That was, I think, when I first met Chris in person. When you guys came down here for St. Patrick's Day, if I'm not mistaken. We did batch one that you had, and you guys told me you drink out of the barrel. We shot the video on it and everything.

SPEAKER_00 40:35

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 40:35

And then I put in for it the next year, and I won batch two. Well, actually, this is one of the bottles they they sent me for the PR bottles. Okay. They sent me this one with the paper. And I I shot the videos for this one. Batch two and batch four or the hazmats.

SPEAKER_06 40:54

Yeah. Yeah.

unknown 40:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 40:58

Batch two was a 145.4, and batch four was 143, 143.

SPEAKER_05 41:07

The nine year is it 143? I can't read this shit. It's it is, yeah. So this is man, I'm not, I won't do it. It's not happening. So, Chris, because you can't possibly still have your batch one left. I do have batch one.

SPEAKER_00 41:24

My batch one, I look for it's somewhere. There's batch one, and I look for it and look for it and look for it. I know it's around, but it's somewhere, and I probably hid it so that I wouldn't drink it all.

SPEAKER_05 41:40

What I love about batch one is the 001 on the label looks like a kindergartner road. It's like the the the calligraphy in this is amazing.

SPEAKER_06 41:51

I think that was one was uh those were all handwritten. After that, I think it was two, three, and four where uh we stamped those in. I was like, this one looks pretty neat.

SPEAKER_01 42:02

Yeah, mine is not enough.

SPEAKER_06 42:05

It speeds up uh our labor hours a little bit when you stamp them as opposed to handwriting.

SPEAKER_05 42:09

So so Ann is watching, and she said the rye is is fire, and she's not wrong. It's it's fire. Those those rye barrels are so good.

SPEAKER_06 42:18

That's okay. You know, like Jeff said, you got you guys got to taste them at five years old, and I've got to taste them at six, seven, eight, nine years old. And it's been so fun to watch them kind of just transform.

SPEAKER_05 42:38

So opinions on fat blind number five. Jeff, you go first since you haven't opinionated yourself.

SPEAKER_00 42:46

That tastes like a double oak tote or a toasted to me. Dude, who gave me the I have the ant button.

SPEAKER_06 42:58

Hold on. What what game was that? What board game was that where they gave you the buzzer? Was that taboo?

SPEAKER_00 43:04

Yeah, no, no, no, no. No, that's the board. It was no, it was operation.

SPEAKER_05 43:13

No, taboo, because in four Christmases, they're playing that game, and he keeps the mom keeps buzzing, and he's like, Mom, mom, you can't buzz me. Yes, yes, yeah. What do you think? What do you think there, Mr. Lyden? Number five's the most peppery one to me. This one's this one's probably the most hot one on the palette.

SPEAKER_00 43:36

It's hot, but it pulls off similar notes to one and two. They're they're they're there, but it's a little bit sweeter and a little bit barrel different.

SPEAKER_05 43:51

It's just like it's like peppery, it's a nice like heat. Did you guys did you guys drink the bottles I gave you yet? I cracked mine on beer night yesterday, so I can open it and have it a little bit open before we do this. But your beer night is not a good night for tasting things because you can't remember every night's a good night, Chris. Now, listen, his beer. The reason that I'm biker was because he's lucky he's still able to sit in that chair.

SPEAKER_00 44:21

We have we had all oh I saw what you had. I I mean, Lyson, that that beer night was insane. I mean, you're sending me pictures. I'm like, I'm like, well, I'm not gonna call, I'm not gonna call Matt early this morning. And then you're like, I gotta get the I I I was out. So so Ryan, there, so listen to this. So when me and CT were there at Matt's bar for the first time together, there is a mezcal that has a scorpion in the bottle. Okay. So on to so Matt's trying to get us to eat the scorpion. So then the next time we go there with Super Nash, who's not on tonight, we're there with him. And Super Nash eats the scorpion. He's like chowing it, but there's but he got a couple bottles. So on Tuesday night, this past Tuesday night, we had the master distiller from Mexico, our first ever international podcast. Right, and it was Sierra Norte Mexican whiskey for Cinco de Mayo. And he comes on and he's talking about Sierra Norte with in and and that it was a pot still. It reminded me a lot of Alan's stuff, CT. But all of a sudden, out of nowhere, that's his brand. He basically hires children to get him live scorpions, and then they gotta basically drown them in the in the tequila, and then pull them out and wash them and do all this stuff, and then put them in the in the bottles. And so that's his brand that Matt was showing you. Of so I'm like texting Matt. It's like, get your ass on here. Come on, come on, come on, come on. It's the guy who's with the scorpion. He's like, he so the next morning he's like, I had to get up at 4:30, and I was he was asleep.

SPEAKER_05 46:32

He wasn't asleep, he wasn't asleep, he was in a kuma.

SPEAKER_06 46:39

Look, and you know what, you know what I mean on that whole story? Yeah, was little kids drowning scorpions.

SPEAKER_00 46:45

Oh no, then no, they don't drown them, but he pays them per scorpion. They catch live scorpions for him, and then he puts it in the bottom of the children and scorpions.

SPEAKER_05 47:01

Yes, let's go with a great story, right?

SPEAKER_00 47:04

Ryan, you needed to hear that, right?

SPEAKER_02 47:08

Yeah, needed must, not a wine, that was a must.

SPEAKER_05 47:11

Yeah, what's that made too impressive on the word? Wild turkey, sweet, hot, big. What? I'm asking Ann's question. She said, What's the most wild turkey? Question mark, sweet, hot, or big?

SPEAKER_06 47:32

Ann, you're gonna have to elaborate. I don't understand the question.

SPEAKER_05 47:35

If we need elaboration, maybe you could send us a uh you know, this Ann's Anne's deep on this one. I'm gonna go with sweet. How about that? I was gonna go with big, so I mean New Line, Brian Benrick, Scorpion Bourbon. Oh my gosh. If you do that, I have to be the spokesman for next.

SPEAKER_06 47:57

Hey Brian, I'm gonna have to that's a bad idea. There would have to be a lot of RD.

unknown 48:04

Yes.

SPEAKER_06 48:05

Um, but I I will never say no to an idea. It's just a matter of is it a lot of RD or is it just a little bit of RD? Right.

SPEAKER_05 48:14

It's okay to say no. That's a bad idea. It's a novelty. People gravitate to the novel.

SPEAKER_06 48:25

Now I want to, Chris, just because you said no.

SPEAKER_05 48:27

Oh, that's how that's my life works that way pretty much since day one.

SPEAKER_06 48:33

That's how my brain works. If somebody tells me no, then wait, wait, wait.

SPEAKER_00 48:37

So, in other words, what we gotta get is 15 and under to 10 and over kids in Ohio catching scorpions for us.

SPEAKER_05 48:53

Oh my gosh.

SPEAKER_00 48:54

Exactly, Matt.

SPEAKER_05 48:56

Okay. We better get back to the blind blind.

SPEAKER_00 48:59

All right, so let's get back to the blind.

SPEAKER_05 49:02

Okay, so let's go to one and two. Let's let's go back to one and two and talk about what they are.

SPEAKER_00 49:08

Okay, wait. All right, wait, wait, wait, wait. Let's everybody first pick the one they like the best. That's a good call. Out of all five.

SPEAKER_05 49:21

I got it, I got a number. Hey, have it in your hand and we'll raise our hand at the same time.

SPEAKER_00 49:26

I how do you how did you already do it?

SPEAKER_05 49:29

I got my hand ready. I know which one I like the best. Jeez, you you probably didn't even taste them. Who? Hey, I got five clean glasses for this, which is kind of rough. My beer glasses are still in the sink over here, so I was still I was still picky. I cleaned my glasses again and re-wiped them down so that they had no scent whatsoever. So that's the way to do it. You got the Amberana off, so that way you're taking it off. You don't have to worry. There was no Amberana in anything I had. I don't know if that was any Ambranana in his house. Yeah. Listen, I do only Ryan because it's supposed to go to that guy up in Cleveland, and I keep missing to give him that because I was gladly gifted to him.

SPEAKER_00 50:22

You know, I you know what happened, CT? You left, and then he I waited for him to come so I could give him all your stuff, but he gave me all your stuff. So now we got to get together, so I give you Matt's bottles.

SPEAKER_05 50:38

Don't don't mess with my stuff, and none of it better have anything to do with that A word.

SPEAKER_00 50:43

No, it he said he would never do it to you. It has to do with birthday cake. That's the only thing he gave you that that's weird.

SPEAKER_05 50:51

I've really been surprised. On three, what's the number of the bottle? On three, show of hands. What's your bottle? Ready? One, two, three.

SPEAKER_00 51:03

Three.

SPEAKER_05 51:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 51:08

And and three. And five is second.

SPEAKER_05 51:11

Four is the toasted.

SPEAKER_00 51:13

Three.

SPEAKER_05 51:15

Three is uncut, unfiltered. Five is the maple, I'm thinking. And I'll tell you what one and two is, but I'm not 100% sure. But I kind of feel like the one and one and two is the original small batch, or whatever Ryan calls it, and then the second one is the reduction.

SPEAKER_00 51:35

There's there's no way one and two is the original small batch.

SPEAKER_05 51:40

It's not one and two are the same bottle, just one is reduced slowly, and one is reduced with the.

SPEAKER_00 51:48

I'm just telling you, I think that's what it is, but maybe not. I'm still gonna I'm gonna go with I'm gonna go with on one and two.

SPEAKER_05 52:01

I thought one was Apple, the Apple brandy finished.

SPEAKER_06 52:09

I'll add some fuel here. So one and two. Do you think they're the same batch? Yeah, you think it's the same portfolio?

SPEAKER_00 52:18

Yes. Okay, not the same batch, but but the same the two are together as far as it's the same expression. Like it's yeah, yeah, I do. I do.

SPEAKER_05 52:31

It's the same thing. It's just what happened when water gets introduced in a wave and when water gets slowly introduced.

Reveal Of The Apple Brandy Pair

SPEAKER_00 52:39

Okay, I'm gonna say that they're both um different versions of I'm uh it just has the sweeter flavor to it. And I I and it doesn't have anything to do with their original small batches that I tasted early on because I I'll give you it's we have a distillery up here called Jravasi, and they were distilling, but they also have a restaurant and they had a lot of watershed. Like, and they could we've done some work with Dirvassi. Oh yes, you have, and and they couldn't buy any more, they had their own stuff that they purchased, and they had a lot of watershed, and they were using it for desserts and stuff like that. And I know Mike Leferton, who is the former head bartender there, and they had to use up a certain amount of watershed off that original small batch that was on the on the shelf before they could start purchasing other bourbon. So I drank an awful lot of water small batch in my old fashions. I had it neat, I had it, I know that flavor, and these to me don't have the the the the like you said, the part of the smell, yes. Okay, so these don't have that. Or they have the okay, so all right, so we've done it. We've picked three.

SPEAKER_05 54:27

You're sitting there, you're laughing, you're you're you're internally laughing at us. Okay, Mario.

SPEAKER_00 54:33

Tell us the blind, the blindness that we're experiencing.

SPEAKER_06 54:38

Yeah, so Chris, you were the closest of anybody. So one and two, what they are, is it's a it's a new version. The red label. So it's a new batch of this. But what I did was this is the same proof, it's the same blend, it's the same set of barrels in both these glasses, exactly like Chris gets. Wait. So one of them is crash diluted, and one of them is slow water reduced.

SPEAKER_00 55:05

But those aren't so show me the red label again. So it's this, it's this model, it's this. And what is that? What is it? Uh read the label. What is it?

SPEAKER_06 55:17

Yeah, so this is the opening whiskeys finished in apple brandy barrels. Okay. It's the same, it's the same.

SPEAKER_00 55:24

Okay, so we have a new version. So we mean me and me and Matt were like, that's that's got the apple brandy finish. And and Chris is like, no, it doesn't. That is he, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 55:39

So I don't think I ever said no, it doesn't. Oh god.

SPEAKER_00 55:43

So I think me and me and Matt are closer because I felt that that that had the cinnamony apple thing that was that that and but that's your version right now, and one's one's got the different process of how you one slowly what okay.

SPEAKER_06 56:03

So it's the so it's the same blend of barrels. So it's a 12-barrel batch, it's all the same liquid, just glass number one. I added all of the water in in the span of two minutes that I needed to to go from cast strength down to 90 proof. The second glass was reduced inside of the barrels for three months. Okay, yeah. Nothing else is different. And that's why the only difference is how much how the water was added and how the pace at which it was added.

SPEAKER_05 56:33

And because of that, it gave it that softer palette. It's not as strong.

SPEAKER_00 56:37

It's it just has a nice, it's like it's it's just well, but that but I will tell you, depending on what kind of bourbon drinker drinker you are, the the one on the right hits home quick and delivers that that cinnamon apple flavor. On the left, it's more of the finish. It's it's it's no, not the finish, but it allows you to ease into on your brain, but I agree. They I felt they both were the apple brandy finished, and that's what you're doing now. I I a little I told you straight up right off the bat, I love both of them. I like both of them.

SPEAKER_05 57:23

You you picked one hit both of them. That's not how this works.

The Science Behind Slow Water Reduction

SPEAKER_00 57:28

No, but I said, no, I'm not picking both of them. I told him I liked both of them. You know what, CT? I'm allowed to like both of them. It's just which one do you like better? I'm as a as a a whiskey drinker. My my I think the I'm just I'm not criticizing anything. I like both of them, but I like the punchiness of one. I think because I'm a whiskey drinker, I want a little bit more punch, right? Okay, go Matt.

SPEAKER_05 57:59

I think one draft palette more, it was better. And then number two was just like a lot lighter to where I think over one overshadowed number two for me after drinking it. After it, you know what I'm saying? Going in order, I think it kind of watered. But if you went the other way, I think you may have pulled more from number two than number one.

SPEAKER_00 58:18

Okay, I will also say that everybody needs to go out and buy both so that you drink number one and the the second one that you you let your wife try, and she'll love it.

SPEAKER_05 58:32

I think so. I think Saddle loves number two.

SPEAKER_00 58:35

That is an easier, easier pour.

SPEAKER_06 58:38

Yeah, yeah. So some of the science behind this, guys, is what happens when you add water too quickly to alcohol is the hydrogen that's in the water that you're adding and the hydrogen that's in the alcohol itself, that's what really needs to bond properly in the whole process. When you add all of the water in too quickly, those hydrogen molecules will fight each other and they rub up against each other, and that creates a chemical reaction. That chemical reaction is heat. Anybody that knows anything about whiskey is heat is very bad for whiskey. It destroys your destroys your fatty acid chains, all your lipid chains, and that's where all of your flavor is contained within those fatty acid chains. Also, when you crash the loot, it's gonna that that heat reaction, that chemical reaction is gonna raise the pH a little bit. So, Jeff, I think you said a little bit of cinnamon, a little bit of apple. Matt, I think you said the same thing, kind of bright, a little punchier. That's that more, that's that acidic quality that's increasing that punchiness. Now, on number two, when we add it in slowly and over time inside the barrels, we're getting a lot more interaction with the oak, right? So we're having a couple different things happen. So as we go from calf strength down to bottling strength, which is not even proof for us, um, what's happening is each time you do a water addition, there's new molecules and new compounds that are being extracted from the oak. That's why you see different fill strengths on barrel entries. Different distilleries go into the barrel at different strengths. That's not that's not unheard of at all. And the same thing's happening as you reduce inside those barrels. So when I go from cash strength to 110-proof, it's gonna start to extract more water-soluble sugars. And then you extrapolate that out across three months, where it's going from cast strength down to 90 proof, you're getting a lot more wood sugar extraction. You're also not raising the pH. So that's why you're getting that much more cohesive, much more velvety mouthfeel, a lot more fluidity from front to back. It's a lot less flawed, it's a lot less flawed spirit. Um, so that's kind of the difference in the crash solution, what we were doing, to now we're doing everything slow water reduced inside the barrels. And that all kind of falls into our elevage program. That's what the overarching umbrella is to what this is. This is part of elevage.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:50

So so we were in, so there's a uh northern Michigan distillery called Iron Fish, and they actually do exactly Yeah, and they do it with they do it with an IV drip.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:05

Yep, I've seen it.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:06

Yep, okay, there you go. So, yeah, so you know, when my my son lives in Thompsonville, which is like six minutes from the distillery, and I go up there, I go up there all the time. Yeah, you he lives in you know my son, you know Nobbs. He lives? Yes, he lives in your ville. You gotta go up there to see you can go up there for iron fish. But yeah, so that's that's very, you know, that that that process it does, I I agree. There's that that there I was also in what what's it called? I gotta think. J. Henry in Wisconsin. And they do a this is this is a oh they do it like they like wineries do it, you know, French wines where they keep adding the water to the barrel, they're not doing they it's it's a process that they follow that some of the red wine people they add the water into the barrel a certain way. So I mean it's but I agree with you. You're you're talking about a little bit more mellow, and if you're not a crazy bourbon taster like myself, where you're always looking for that, you know, you you taste so many barrel proofs. What are the proofs on the two?

SPEAKER_06 1:02:30

They're both at 90.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:31

Right. So the but the one drinks a little bit more above 90, and the other one drinks a little bit below 90. As far as what you're looking when you when what what your perception of proof is.

SPEAKER_06 1:02:47

Totally. And that's all of that science coming into play. It's the hydrogen bonding properly with the slow water reduction techniques, and it's it's bonding physically instead of rubbing against each other and making a chemical reaction. And that's and like I said, we're not allowing that pH to spike, and that's why it kind of the the first one kind of tastes a little hot, and the second one's really, really smooth.

SPEAKER_05 1:03:09

Okay, two questions on Facebook. Do you know a Devin Draper? I do know a Devin Draper.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:17

Yes, I saw that.

SPEAKER_05 1:03:20

Devin says Mrs. Haycock would be so proud. She was Ryan's chemistry teacher.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:28

She was all right.

SPEAKER_05 1:03:32

That's awesome. And then that small public school education coming into use. There you go. And then also, Andemic asked, and we kind of touched on it, Jeff Jeff just did how many distilleries are doing this now? And yes, it makes a massive difference. So the slow water reduction of what you know, how many distilleries in the United States are doing it?

Bottled In Bond And Toasted Reveal

SPEAKER_06 1:03:56

Yeah, so it's increasing in popularity for sure. When I went to Texas and learned about these techniques straight from Nancy, there was only a handful that were attempting to do this. It's really, really difficult to do at scale. It's really kind of currently, um, I'm sure somebody big is going to engineer the crap out of it and be able to someday do this. Um, but as of right now, it's kind of isolated to the craft community. Um, I would say the technique itself, the specific slow water reduction, there's definitely more people, more distilleries that are catching onto that and doing that. I would say probably less than 50 in the country are using slow water reduction techniques at the moment. But as far as the overarching elevage programming and you know, really dedicating time and resources into good quality materials, looking at all your front-end bottlenecks, getting better casts in what we're doing, switching to toasting and charring, getting better season staves. Um we made I made a permanent switch for us. Um we went from a six-month to an 18-month open air season save. All of those things have a huge impact on the overall spirit at the end of maturation. So, as far as a full-blown elevage program that I know of, there's probably less than five that are thinking about all of these techniques and bundling it into one overarching program and utilizing that and marketing it, marketing the discord in that way.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:28

Good.

SPEAKER_05 1:05:28

Okay, and we got one of them in Columbus, Ohio. That's awesome.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:33

So let's move on.

SPEAKER_05 1:05:35

We gotta move on to three to four. So three, I think we Matt and I agreed this was uncut and filtered. We could be wrong, Jeff. You thought it was Pappy 15.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:53

It's my it was my pick out of all of them.

SPEAKER_06 1:05:57

Yeah, mine too. Yeah, so so three and four, similar to what we did with one and two. So number three is our core portfolio bottled and bond.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:11

Yep.

SPEAKER_06 1:06:12

Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:14

Which I got a bottle right here.

SPEAKER_06 1:06:16

Yeah, yeah. So this is an elevage bottle. So most of what we have out in the market now is all elevage programs. So this is the it's been slow water reduced. Same thing we talked about with the first two samples.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:28

So when did you slow water reduced in the barrels? When did you start slow water reducing your bottled and bond? Because one of the first bottles I ever got from I went down and was part of a media release, and it was when they released that first batch of bottled in bond. Greg talked about it, and I got to that's when I got to meet him and whatever. When what when did you start slow water reducing the bottled and bond?

SPEAKER_06 1:06:53

Yeah, so all of the new program, all of the new Elevage program stuff is very young still. And by young, I mean the program is young, not the distillant. Right. Um, so I started implementation in January of 2025. So just a little over a year ago. And then we started to have our first bottles hit the market around July August of 2025. So these have only been on the market, and in some areas they still have the old bottles. So right now it's still kind of hit and miss whether or not you have the the Ellevage bottles or you the old style. Obviously, it just takes time to phase out the old stuff. Um but the around July August 2025 is when that stuff started to get out in the market.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:34

How has the reception been?

SPEAKER_06 1:07:37

Phenomenal. Phenomenal. I love doing when I have get when I have private tours at the distillery. I love doing side-by-sides of the old technique versus the new. And I always do it blind, just like I'm doing with you guys. I never tell them what it is first. And the first question I always ask is, Do you think this is the same liquid? And 9.9 times out of 10, the customers are saying, Nope, this is this is two different bottles. Well, so the overall perception has been phenomenal. And kudos to Greg while he was still there to just continuing going back to believing in me and making these core changes. And we're we're gonna reap the benefits for sure, especially once we start getting on the back end and getting those extra season and extra those toasted barrels come mature. That's gonna be a real game changer.

SPEAKER_05 1:08:28

So is is there a bottle number that you started at that would have been the slow reduction number? That if you're after this number, you have it, or under this number you build it.

SPEAKER_06 1:08:36

There is a bottle number. I can't remember off the top of my head. If you have anything higher than 50,000, it's definitely a slow water reduced bottle, I would say.

SPEAKER_05 1:08:47

So I got 53975. So that's gonna be the middle one. I'm pretty missing the next era that we're doing.

SPEAKER_06 1:08:53

Yeah, that's a slow water reduced bottle. Awesome. Very cool. Yeah, and so sample number four. So I said we were kind of doing like side by sides, right? So number four is the same proof. And I think, Chris, I think you said it. It is the toasted, it's the six-year toasted finished bourbon. I feel like I've accomplished something tonight. So same proof. This was a little bit higher aged. And then obviously proof from cast strength to 100. The toasted, but not slow reduced. It is slow reduced. Yeah, so just in a different way. This was a really fun portfolio to work on, this LTO. This was my first stab at creating an LTO outside of the uncut and filtered. Obviously, that's just blending barrels. But this was my first true finished whiskey that I got to work on. And I was very particular about how I wanted to produce it. You see a ton of different vocabulary, whether it's double oak, whether it's toasted, whatever, what have you. I decided to go with toasted because I wanted to highlight the sweeter, more nuanced characteristics that a barrel can give you, as opposed to just pumping tannins, pumping wood sugar, making it really aggressive. This was a very, I wanted to take a subtle approach and bring really highlight the sweetness that a toasted barrel can give you. So I did an initial blend of 10 barrels, blended them together, reduced them from cast strength down to 110 fruit. And then what I did is I then put those in the toasted barrels. What happens when you go from the higher the the alcohol strength in a barrel, the more wood tannins you're gonna extract. So the more astringent, the more bitterness it's gonna have. So going in and reducing that to 110 allows me to extract more wood sugars right off the bat. So the extraction period for this too is very atypical. A lot of people get really wide-eyed when I say this. This this liquid only finished for 18 days in toasted barrels. Very, very short finish, very, very particular, targeted flavor. So 18 days in the toasted barrels, pulled them back out into a stainless steel tote, and then finish the slow water reduction inside a stainless steel tote. So normally it's in a barrel. I didn't want to leave them in the toasted barrel, so I had to finish in a in a stainless steel tote. Then that took an additional eight weeks.

SPEAKER_05 1:11:33

So not just looking at them this way with the light on it. That one's way darker than the first three are already.

SPEAKER_06 1:11:46

Yeah, yeah, and that's that's 18 days, man.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:49

Because it's double barreled, yeah.

Sample Five Reveal Uncut Unfiltered

SPEAKER_05 1:11:53

I'm gonna I'm gonna bring this sample over to my buddy though. Last summer, this was released at the Bourbon Fest there, half watershed, and it was by far like everybody, because you could get samples, and everybody was getting that that toasted. That that was just like a hit. People loved it. I'm not sure how many is that even still in existence? Can you get it still?

SPEAKER_06 1:12:22

Is it at the distillery still? We I believe they just said we're down to our final case in the in the bottle shop, and then it's gone until until next fall.

SPEAKER_00 1:12:32

Until you toast another one.

SPEAKER_06 1:12:36

Okay, right, right. Yeah, we've we've been sitting on those for just a few. I think we started past January, we produced 186 cases, and January 1, we were down to our final four cases. So we've been sitting on those final four for a while, but we're finally almost out.

SPEAKER_05 1:12:56

Alright, so we are on the five. Five number five.

SPEAKER_06 1:13:03

Blind number five. Well, so what were the guesses on number five when we think this was? I had no head, guys. I'm not I'm not doing that.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:18

All right.

SPEAKER_05 1:13:18

I I have my opinion, but I want to hear what I want to hear what Jeff has there in the stark white shirt.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:25

That is a little bit older, and it's a higher proof. So you were saying uncut, unfiltered. I'm gonna say it's that's that's more like what an uncut old uh it's older and and I'm picking up a lot more wood tannins. It's a lot oakier. A lot of the the the the four other expressions were were dealing with the sweetness, and this is much this is pulling out the oak. So somebody who likes oak, uh a bourbon that is you know super oaky, it's not over oak to me. I still can I will say the finish is a little bit tart. It's not, but once again, not over oaked. It but it seems like it has a little bit more age.

SPEAKER_05 1:14:18

What do you think, Matt? This is uh this is the darkest one out of the five here, just from the light coming through. This one has the most pepper on it, and this one would be the most the one that dances on your palate the most. That's like the the hottest one for lack of a better term. But hottest coming with this one, it's under the wood tannins to run this one, and it's like a pepper that comes through. And I like this. This this would be super solid in one of Chris's old fashions that he makes all the time. Well, that's why you're gonna like it because it's not the wood tannins, it's the walnut. Is this the walnut? I'm gonna guess this is the no chino.

SPEAKER_00 1:15:01

No way. Yeah, no way. The no chino, I what? It's the maple. No, is it the maple? Maple would make more sense. Oh my god. That's the uncut unfiltered. Uncut unfiltered, that is what I said.

SPEAKER_06 1:15:19

What is that? Jeff nailed it. This is batch seven. Oh uncut unfiltered. I knew you were gonna get upset with that because you thought you were texting me earlier.

SPEAKER_05 1:15:31

I've I've had too much. I've my palate's terrible. That's okay.

SPEAKER_00 1:15:37

Okay, CT. I can't wait to make the I can't wait to make the AI picture that that says I've had too much. My palate's gonna hell did I miss that? I I mean that was obvious. I mean, there it's just like it has it, it's it's the higher proof, it's got a little bit more char, it's got a little bit more oak and everything compared to the rest, and that's exactly what you'd expect. What's the proof on the what's the proof on that, Ryan?

SPEAKER_01 1:16:14

Yeah, this one is coming in at 123 even.

SPEAKER_00 1:16:17

Yeah, I was figuring in the 120s, it wasn't like a hazard.

SPEAKER_05 1:16:23

It's this bottle, literally. Yeah, it's this is the same thing as I just drank this this weekend, and I'm like, I don't remember pepper being in there. What you also have to understand is they came super late, and I had to run through the boots real quick and talk to everyone and make it down to Watershed, which Watch Shed was my fourth place that I went down to, so I made it their fourth, and I'm like, that one's a little hotter. I should have kind of put it together, but I didn't.

SPEAKER_00 1:16:48

Yeah, except except except Matt. You have to understand what Ryan did. We started out, we went from super sweet, yes, because you're talking about the apple brandy stuff, you know, the apple brandy cast. Then you went to the the difference between the bottled and bond and the toasted, which still have a nice whatever, and then he finished up with with the it's exactly how you're supposed to do a tasting. You're supposed to finish up with the highest proof. If you put the highest proof in the middle, you it it messes you up. But at the same time, it's just like you're gonna get a different experience opposed to just drinking it. I mean, straight up. You do it right now, you're not gonna pick out as much sweetness after drinking these four before with the toasted, and you're talking about the bottled and bond, which was was which me and you both picked, and you got the apple brandy ones. They there's a comparison in your brain to pull that down to that oakiness and whatever.

SPEAKER_05 1:17:58

And I mean, if it's it's that's why the brand that's telling you why I got pepper at the end because it had it with the highest one. I'm like, okay, this one was the hottest one. I'm like, it still has awesome flavor to it, but this is definitely a lot hotter than the rest of these. Yeah, so I think the way that you did our blind was fantastic. I just want to kudos to you. Yeah, that was that was fantastic. Ryan, I'm not I'm not gonna have the same thing to say, but Ann commented on Facebook and she said, I can't believe you would do this to Chris. I mean, I I feel for you, Ann.

SPEAKER_06 1:18:32

Hey, he did it to himself. He was really confident though, wasn't he? He thought he thought he nailed it.

SPEAKER_05 1:18:39

You know, you're like a fisherman. You threw the bait out. You knew I would find on the first two for sure.

SPEAKER_00 1:18:45

Third one, yeah, it was a question, and then you just totally I'm gonna have him, I'm gonna have him, and then yeah, but but then he threw in the fact that it's almost like he knew us. Yeah, yeah. But it's I I mean it's so awesome. He gives you on the one, he just gives you the thumbs down on the on the walnut finish. And then he's like, yeah, Tiny just nailed it.

SPEAKER_06 1:19:16

Sometimes you gotta give credit where credit's due to credit. I will say that that's um I will say, Ryan.

SPEAKER_00 1:19:27

I will say, Ryan, that that there's an aspect where I'm jealous of you right now is that that as Aaron Harris's distillate starts to mature to a level where you're gonna get to put that out and you're gonna have all of everything at your you know disposal. You can basically, and what you you're gonna have a lot of ammunition in your art, you know, in your gun to produce some really good whiskey. And you know, I do have a fam, you know, I I I I I was pretty sure that was the apple brandy, and and Matt was, and then CT tries to make you doubt yourself. Apple brandy. Not the apple brandy, but the apple brandy finish. But at the same time, I there's a famili I'm familiar with this brand, and you've done a really good job of bringing the brand forward with the whiskey that you have to do what leave behind what it what it was at one point and to produce some really good whiskey. You know what I mean? I think anybody who is going by, you know, 2019, 2018, 2017, what was going on, and it would, you know, that they were a lot of people were like, watershed wasn't this. I mean, I remember when initially how many people were just trying to trash me because I was promoting the brand. I mean, I had people coming on and like, well, they're they're a sponsor, so you just whatever. And it wasn't because I mean, it was what Ann and Aaron had taken it to. You've and and you were part of that. You've come back to that, and you're doing a great job.

SPEAKER_06 1:21:23

Thanks. I appreciate that. Yeah, we we've we've we said at the beginning of the podcast the the whole bourbon portfolio has come such leaps and bounds from where it used to be. And I mean, I can't take full credit for that. I you know, all the work that these guys do on the distillation side of things, you know, with what they did and when we got the columns still in 2016, 2017, through what Aaron started to make through our distillation team now, you know, those guys work their asses off all the time. They're always looking for ways to improve, always doing you know, new innovative things. I I can't say enough good things about our distillation team without them, you know. I I'm only half that half that picture. Right, right. So if I don't have good distillate to work with, it it makes my job really, really hard.

SPEAKER_00 1:22:15

So is is there a name distiller or is it just a team?

SPEAKER_06 1:22:20

So it's just a team. So since Aaron's departure, we've it's been kind of a distillation by by by teamwork. So we have three full-time operators and we have a distillery supervisor that kind of run all of the distilling operations with the bourbon, the gin, the apple brandy. Those guys, those guys do all of the heavy lifting on the distillation side. Um, and then when it comes over to me, I'm a department of one. So I do all of the barreling, I do all of the harvesting, I do all of the blending, the inventory management of the barrels. I've been texting with Chris this week. I'm working on a huge barrel reorganization. So we just got a new forklift uh a couple weeks ago that we're able to stack our barrels a little higher. So I'm I'm working on flipping the warehouse over and and getting it organized. And so yeah, it's it's really when it comes to the distillation part, those guys do a great job.

SPEAKER_00 1:23:13

And that's it's the same same warehouse as before, and you're stacking higher.

SPEAKER_05 1:23:18

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:23:20

Yeah. I was uh okay, yeah, that sounds fun. You bet you you know you've gone through the forklift training and it's the triangle. You understand that the tip over yeah, because it's really fun to have uh 2,000 pounds 25 feet over your head. It's really well, yeah, and make sure when you have the 2,000 pounds that it's on the tilt back part of it, and not so that it falls on you, but just tilt back far enough slowly so that it goes up and then once you did.

Distillery Changes And New Visitor Experiences

SPEAKER_05 1:23:54

Yeah, you yeah, there were there's uh on Facebook just a couple of listen, I'm I I'll give you credit where credit's due, Ryan. But today you you you you noided me or whatever that is. What was the game titled where the noid comes out? And it's like no whammy, you whammy me. But anyway, pandemic and Jason both replied you that you're doing an amazing job. So I think that speaks a lot when the state of Ohio recognizes what this brand has gone through, because I think this is the other thing we haven't touched upon. You know, and we talked a lot about watershed tonight, but we talked a lot about all these different things you're doing. But this is a brand that didn't source things from other people. You know, this is a brand that started with their own product, they they brought it out when they thought it needed to be brought out. Sometimes it's because it needs to be brought out for monetary reasons, sometimes it's because it's it's right. I think now it's great because you can you have the flexibility that you didn't that maybe Aaron didn't have years ago, that people didn't have years ago. You have the flexibility to play with five to ten-year-old products, and you're doing a great job with it. It's it's amazing the stuff. Everything I've tasted in the past two years has been just it's it's it's awesome. Like I literally, that's why I have so much, is I drink it, and I'm like, gotta have that. You know, it's it's it's so good. So for Ohio to have uh a distillery that's a craft distillery, small distillery, it's it's you guys aren't that big, but you have 4,500 barrels in storage, right? So it's still a craft distillery that's making your own juice. That's that's the people. I hope people give some grace. I hope people give grace to the fact that a two-year-old product doesn't taste like four and eight-year-old product.

SPEAKER_00 1:26:05

Well, then talk about the so at one point the distillery under old ownership had a restaurant that was really good, correct? And a bar. Now, just talk about is it just a distill? I I so the restaurant is not there, but you have a kitchen, so you can do events if you have to. Is I mean, ex explain where you're at right now, as far as the bar, the you know, what what the gift shop, the whole thing.

SPEAKER_06 1:26:43

Yeah, yeah, that's a great topic to kind of jump in on. Yeah, so unfortunately, in October of 2025, the restaurant ceased operations. It just it was it's a very difficult time to be a restaurateur in the industry. So, yeah, the difficult decision was made to close the restaurant. We are retaining that that space, that area where the restaurant sat. We still have the bottle shop that's right there when you walk in the door as well. The future plans for that is that's gonna be our event space. So, in the not so distant future, you're gonna be able to rent out that space for whatever. If you want to do a wedding reception there, I'm sure that's an option. We've had private events, and we have already had a private event there booked with us, and that was kind of our pilot that we tested out in the space. All the cooking equipment, the restaurant equipment is still there. So it's gonna make us really versatile with you know, pop-up chefs that want to do something. Like I said, the special events that go on there. We're also piloting more customer-based experiences. I mean, this is something that Chris and I have talked in length about that you know, what Ohio is missing compared to when you go to Kentucky is the experiences. You know, we're making good liquid, we're we're putting out great products, but that overall experience is kind of lacking. And so, what we've got coming down the line of watershed is we're gonna offer two exclusive, I'll say upcharged experiences on top of our tours. So in the future, you'll be able to go on our website and book a bottle your own burp experience, and you'll be able to book a blending 101 class that'll be through Watershed that'll that'll happen in those spaces. Now, when those exactly come online, I don't have an exact date, but it will be sometime before the end of 2026. So we're kind of investing in those experience aspects with our with our distillery. Now the restaurant's not there. Um, and hopefully, you know, our customers will engage with us and have a great time.

SPEAKER_00 1:28:38

Well, I mean, it would be great. I mean, having the kitchen still there, like you said, you could have a street corn pop up Friday night to do a tasting with the community. I mean, it just offers so much things what you could do once you get your once you get your feet back on the ground as far as you know uh where the direction you're going, but also know that me and CT will come down and promote both those experiences for you once once it happens. We'll we'll record it.

SPEAKER_05 1:29:14

Well, where do you think the broken bottles came from?

SPEAKER_00 1:29:17

Matt.

SPEAKER_05 1:29:18

Hold on. Let me let me bring this back to light.

SPEAKER_00 1:29:22

I mean, how many people what how wait wait? How did you carbon how did you carbon carbon the The broken bottle, where do you do that? Did do you go to the Star Wars.com website and then just carbon dip?

SPEAKER_05 1:29:38

So Hans Ballo was a good friend of mine. And he said before he was before he was cryogenically frozen or whatever that Boba Fett did to him. He said to me, he said, please carry on watershed. Make sure, make sure that they that they live on.

SPEAKER_00 1:29:56

And so that was the last bottle from the Star Wars legacy. And it lived on.

SPEAKER_05 1:30:04

But but what I but I I love the fact you know, people outside of what we do don't understand this. But Ryan, like, we're we're close. We live, he's been to my house, I've been to Columbus many a times. I I live 30 minutes from there. Right. And so I'm a big supporter of them and what they do. But he the thing I love that's so awesome about Ryan is he's willing to listen to opinions. Like whether we have it or somebody else walking in has an opinion. And I do truly think that the one thing that Ohio needs to do better than what we've done, we have great product. I if we want to talk about product, we have 100% corn made in Columbus, Ohio, leather and oak. Who makes 100% corn? There's not too many clients that are doing that. So we have we have all these great brands, Middle West, we have Echo, we've already mentioned so many of them. And it's like we need to step our game up on experiences. Our customers, our people that are watching this or watching the market or watching the industry, don't need to drive always to Kentucky. I mean, Kentucky's great, they have they have heritage and they have legacy that we cannot replicate. But we can make our experiences better for our consumers that live in Cleveland, Cincinnati, Columbus, wherever it is, to where they can come and not only enjoy a good restaurant, but enjoy a good experience with what they do. And this this blending experience that Ryan is working on is awesome. Like to go through and be able to blend your own out of three, four barrels, whatever it is that they decide to do, that's that's awesome. People are looking for that, but they don't get to do it.

SPEAKER_00 1:32:07

I agree. Although I will tell you, if you do anything from before keep serving with a thief the old fashioned straight from a barrel, because that was that that you guys figured out how to do it with the you know, and whatever, and that experience and that old fashioned was spectacular.

SPEAKER_06 1:32:36

Jeff also got that barrel of old-fashioned inside just for you, buddy.

SPEAKER_00 1:32:40

Oh my god.

SPEAKER_05 1:32:41

I took a picture yesterday, Jeff. I was gonna send it to you. The barrel and the thief is still sitting there.

SPEAKER_00 1:32:48

So nobody's getting any. Is there any left in there?

SPEAKER_05 1:32:52

I I cannot disclose this information.

SPEAKER_00 1:32:55

Oh my god.

SPEAKER_05 1:32:56

That means he drank it yesterday. But the thief is on top of the barrel still in the bar.

SPEAKER_00 1:33:02

I did a one I did just so you know, Ryan, to promote watershed, it was a 1.2 million viewed short on on YouTube. Yeah, because it was straight, it was right there. That's that's what it was. I don't know why, but it, you know, it's just like when they catch, they catch. And that was one.

SPEAKER_05 1:33:31

And and and and mentioned something that's absolutely right. Kentucky didn't get to where they are overnight. They weren't like, oh my god, all of a sudden Kentucky is it. It it took time, and absolutely Ohio can get there. We have so much good stuff going on, and I love Kentucky. I love Colorado, Texas. I like it all. Like, I want to try everything, but for sure, Ohio has some great things going on. And when you have Ryan, are are we getting close to 10 years on bourbon?

SPEAKER_06 1:34:07

We are. So I got some stuff that's gonna turn nine this year. And so, yeah, we're probably we're realistically, we're probably still a year and a half to two years away from any sort of batch release, but we're we're getting there slowly and surely. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:34:23

Are you guys are you guys still doing single barrel releases from the distillery, or did you stop that?

SPEAKER_05 1:34:30

Or Ohio. Is Ohio doing it? Those are always my favorite.

SPEAKER_06 1:34:34

Yeah, yeah. So we actually just had OHLQ in last week uh to do the next round of single barrel releases for the year. So those look for those to hit shelves, I don't know, probably sometime in August-ish. August, September is usually when they come out.

SPEAKER_05 1:34:48

And do we have Nate's playing kids?

SPEAKER_00 1:34:51

Because I'm gonna go back here to the shelf, and the confectioner's one is like, well, you know, Ryan, we had I have the King's Court from Adam that that that that originally's chambers. I still have some of that left. And I'm serious. I'm trying, I'm gonna have to like it. Maybe 200. And now I've got 150, 1600 bottles. All I was looking today, and this is the bottle I was able to come up with right here. That's an OG. Is that batch three? That is the batch that that was with the woman that passed through Ohio with her with their special blend. Marianne.

unknown 1:35:49

Wait a minute.

SPEAKER_01 1:35:51

You know, Jeff, I think you have the you've got the Nochino finished.

SPEAKER_05 1:35:57

Is it and and Marianne Eve's is all black with except for her detail.

SPEAKER_00 1:36:02

You know what? I have like a bunch of watershed that I was looking for, and I was not finding it. And it's just like I was mad. I'm like, okay, so this is yes, this is the Nochino finish. Man, Ryan, you're right on that. So I'm gonna try a little bit of that.

SPEAKER_06 1:36:18

Hey, I know my promise, brother. Yeah, is that the batch three?

SPEAKER_00 1:36:24

This batch three here. Okay, wait. No chino?

SPEAKER_05 1:36:27

Listen, is this Nochino batch thing?

SPEAKER_00 1:36:32

This is batch, this is batch two.

SPEAKER_05 1:36:36

Okay. Can you tell us the difference between the newest batch you did in Nochino and the one that you did prior to that? Because I feel like the new one you have is a little bit of cinnamon in it, of something different. And it kind of adds like an extra whole level to me.

SPEAKER_06 1:36:53

Yeah, so the newer batches that so I believe it was the f the last two batches we've done, five and six, those have been older barrels. Um, so those, the the it's age-stated as six years old, but those are closer to eight and nine-year-old Nochino finished bourbons.

SPEAKER_00 1:37:10

The batch too is fantastic.

SPEAKER_02 1:37:13

Is it actually like you did something with cinnamon whipping?

SPEAKER_06 1:37:18

No, so what I found with those is the older barrels that I just mentioned have been sitting in Nochino barrels for longer, so they're finishing longer. So some of those bourbons that I put in that that blend were in the Nochino barrels for four plus years. Typically, we shoot for a single year of finishing. Um what what happens with the bourbon is it just gets it the Nochino flavor intensifies and gets richer and richer the longer it sits in there. So that could be where the those heavy baking spice notes are coming from. It's just that concentration.

SPEAKER_00 1:37:53

So you decided to push it.

SPEAKER_06 1:37:57

Yeah, so it's not really decide to push it, it's just out of necessity. So taking over the barrel programming, part of my job was looking at the stock as a whole. You know, what do we have on hand? What do we need to, what does this still need to produce more of? What can we kind of hang back on? One of those things was our finishing programs. So we have a lot of stock on hand of Nochino Finish bourbon just kind of cooking up, you know, uh asleep in the warehouse. So we've actually put those off a little bit as far as producing new batch new barrels, so to speak. So the the portfolio itself, that limited edition, is all older age bourbon, but it's gonna be age-stated as six years old.

SPEAKER_05 1:38:41

Did you guys ever have the thought to take your notino and do something around the lines of like uh Ambrano with it? It's cinnamon and notino together. I feel like Chris would kill me if I did that with him.

SPEAKER_00 1:38:56

Well, hey, wait a second, wait a second. Just so you know, Chris, when it comes to Amberana, I'm just gonna tell you the weakest link.

SPEAKER_05 1:39:06

Goodbye.

SPEAKER_00 1:39:07

He is by far the he is like 100% the guy that's on the hate level of of it. He's the top guy in the country for hating it. And then it drops like like like it's he's here.

SPEAKER_05 1:39:26

Brian's with me. We're we're we're Kumbaya, we're totally like listen. Brian is with me on the Amberana.

SPEAKER_00 1:39:34

We're gonna for Ryan on Amberana. All I'm gonna say is all I'm gonna say is there's a lot of people who love the flavor, and there it's so funny because Chris liked Amberano for a good amount of time. He actually liked it, and then he did a he did something that turned him off to it, but that's his fault. Most people would never put bourbon in freaking cereal and then drink it like it's milk. I mean, it's just like I mean, come on, it's like so so you want you decided that bourbon was milk and you're gonna and then you're gonna trash Amberana for like years. People like Amberana. There's a lot of people who love it.

SPEAKER_05 1:40:31

No, there's a segment. Uh I wouldn't say a lot, I'd say there's a segment of people who like Amberana. And we just segment.

SPEAKER_00 1:40:41

Yeah, that yeah, the segment that Penelope just keeps putting it out and it just flies off the shelf to the point they like lose their batch in two days. Yeah, they put out a batch and it's like and and it's all gone in two days.

SPEAKER_05 1:40:57

What's hilarious is I've been with brands, owners of brands who have an Amburana, Amirana finished bourbon, that don't like it, but like the fact that people buy it. So I people who like I'm not gonna be that guy who says, sell out, buy this stuff that tastes like human toast crunch because it's bourbon. It's supposed to taste like bourbon.

SPEAKER_00 1:41:25

I I mean, it's is it it? No, no, no. It's it's it's like it's not flavored, it's finished, okay? And there's people who drink flavored. I mean, what the I got a sample for you, Chris, that tastes like cupcakes and birthday cake. And it's just like that's not whiskey, what it's supposed to taste like, but there's an awful lot of people buying it.

SPEAKER_05 1:41:51

You're ruining the surprise that we're supposed to go to Chris and you aren't supposed to put it out. He already knows what it is.

SPEAKER_00 1:41:56

No, he does not.

Upcoming Releases Maple Finale And Japan Tease

SPEAKER_05 1:41:58

Do you know what it is, Chris? Uh, I'm gonna guess, but it's not not pleasant. So, all right, we gotta get off of that. We gotta move back to Ryan. So, Ryan, so what is left to be released this year? So, if somebody has watched and they're like, man, they can't get obviously some of these bottles, and and unfortunately, I'm sorry if they're up here. Like, you're not getting the Marianne Eats bottle. It's it's not coming. I have it, yeah. That one's been gone for a while, right? So there are bottles that, and that's probably the thing that Watershed has done such a good job about that is different from a lot of brands, is they have that that elusive, like, oh, there's that OHLQ release from four years ago. There's those things, and and so many good things have come out, but what's to come this year? I we just talked about OHLQ just gonna pick, correct?

SPEAKER_07 1:42:59

Yep, yeah.

SPEAKER_06 1:43:00

So we'll have the single barrels from the state that are gonna come out, and then we have our regular dose of fall finishing series that'll come out in S O N D.

SPEAKER_00 1:43:09

So the fall finishing is from last year, is the Maple, right? That you sent us.

SPEAKER_06 1:43:14

There's Maple Catino. Yeah, so there's random. Yeah, so there's four. So September, well, I'm not gonna tell you, I don't want to spoil it for people who are uh waiting for it, but yeah, there's four different releases. I will say this will be the last year for maple. So if you if you really like a maple, this is gonna be the last round for that guy. And then in 2027, we're gonna move on to a really exciting project that I've been I've been working on for about two years now. And all I'll say is we're we're working with a Japanese distillery. Well, that's so that's what that's what we are trying to come into.

SPEAKER_00 1:43:52

Wait, we know what that is.

SPEAKER_02 1:43:56

So it's a fortune company.

SPEAKER_00 1:43:58

No. No, we're not what we got coming for 2026 and 2027. I will tell you that this this maple that you sent us is is perfect. You did a good job on this this maple. It's not true. It's not too sweet, it's perfect. I will I will describe this for any any any Finnish bourbon person, it's balanced. You have a good sense of balance. It's just what it is.

SPEAKER_06 1:44:29

Yeah, that's that's the whole goal with all my finishing projects. My with all my mentors, from Aaron Harris to, you know, who name it. You're not a philosophy, is that you you wrap the blend, you you don't want your finishing barrel to overpower your base. So, with that, that's how I kind of frame all my projects when I'm going into it is I don't want something to be you know overly sweet or overly spicy. You know, there's always always this balancing act that you have to play. So Aaron Harris was one of my mentors, Matt Strickland out of Iron City in Pennsylvania. He's been very influential on my on my training and my education. Um both of those guys have taught me a lot in the industry, both technical and you know, just analytic training. And yeah, that's that was the whole goal with the maple. You know, when I when I was pitching this to the leadership, it was actually kind of a hard sell because there the the conversation was well, we don't want to compete with non-creek maple, we don't want to compete with with not so-and-so.

SPEAKER_05 1:45:40

That's a good that's a good point. I think it's totally different than not creeping. Yeah, so if anybody is is that what's the point? My god, non creep maple is a whole different ball game because it literally tastes like they added a quarter. If if it's a quarter to three-quarter ratio or half to half, there is that much maple syrup in it compared to this. Is this like I think you have to actually look for it? Like most people would drink that maple cask and not even realize that's maple. You know what I mean? Like it's it's it's so well that you may notice it, but at the same time, it it's it's not overpowering, like Jeff said. It's it's it's a balance.

SPEAKER_06 1:46:25

Exactly. And that and that's what a good finish should be. It shouldn't be like if I'm tasting a maple syrup, finished bourbon, I don't want to taste straight maple syrup with a little bit of bourbon. It's it should be balanced, right? And and that was the goal, and that's what I pitched to leadership when I when I created this, right? Is you know, we're not gonna pump a bunch of artificial sugars and sweeteners and stuff in this. This is going to be an all-natural product finished in another barrel with all natural product in it. So the farmer that we send, these are our barrels. So it's age bourbon that I harvest the liquid, send our barrels, our char 5 barrels, up to a farm in Canton, just east of Canton. Sell them to Columbiana County. Is it so sell them seen? No, the hard farmer is the it's called Sweet Water Maple.

SPEAKER_00 1:47:16

Okay. Okay. Uh you you're you're just you're you're east of Canton? Because I'm in Canton. Yeah. So I I would love I I would love to go there.

SPEAKER_06 1:47:28

Yeah, he's doing a lot of really cool things on with. I mean, it's just a small farm, it's just him and his wife maybe making some really, really good maple products there. But yeah, we send him our char 5 barrels, he ages his maple syrup in those barrels, dumps it out, and then we drive, or I drive up there, bring the barrels back to the distillery, and put bourbon back into them. So everything stays within Ohio and it's everything is all natural products.

SPEAKER_00 1:47:52

Okay, that's good.

SPEAKER_05 1:47:54

Brian, the serious question is here why have I not been invited to go on this road trip? And pick me up on the way.

SPEAKER_06 1:48:04

I mean, honestly, it's not as fun as you guys would think when you would it's business trip.

SPEAKER_00 1:48:09

No, if we're driving together, it's gonna be fun.

SPEAKER_06 1:48:14

Well, for one of us, probably, but the one driving, it's probably not gonna be fun.

SPEAKER_00 1:48:18

I mean, I mean, we just did a road trip last last Saturday or Friday with the Black Diamond, and it was over 300 miles, and it did not, he's like, Do you want to take the 200 200, you know, two-hour trip up to Waverly? And and I'm like, absolutely. And it seemed what what CT? Did it seem like like five minutes? Just because we were talking so much, it just was over.

SPEAKER_05 1:48:47

I told my dad that we did that trip. I was talking to him yesterday. My dad's from that area, so I was telling my dad, I'm like, yeah, we went from here to here, and he's like, You did what? I'm like, yeah. He's like, that's just dumb. It's just dumb. And I'm like, well, when you're in the Bergen world, it's not dumb. You're just looking for the cool experiences, you want to try everything. Uh speaking of dumb, Dirk Ripley, Dirk Dirk commented that let me let me get back. Ryan V is a duh man. So Ryan, Dirk Ripley thinks that you're a dumb man. Listen, he he's a guy.

Blending Philosophy And Building A Base

SPEAKER_06 1:49:33

He's a guy. He's just a what you call the he's a man's man. That's what he is. Yeah, Dirk's awesome. I love hanging out with Dirk. I have a big thing.

SPEAKER_05 1:49:47

Hey, yeah, if you're like, I'm available Sunday. Okay, I'm just saying, you can you stop over Sunday, we'll crack another bottle. We I got cigars, they're resting, they're ready to go. Jason, Jason even chimed in that you're you know, you're great. Uh I that guy works for me. I don't know what's going on here. I think you're up in the chat. Yeah, I mean, Jason, do you realize I haven't even been invited to this maple store picture? Like what the heck's going on?

SPEAKER_00 1:50:21

So, Ryan CT for Christmas gave me this. You can see it, can you guys see that? Yep. So it's a barrel, and last night I filled it with water. I dumped it out tonight, and we decided that when we were driving around Ohio, that it would be a great idea to take the samples from the podcast on the because you get so many sample bottles, right? Yeah. And I'm it's just like you got this, and it's like an and I'm like, let's just do an infinity batch with samples from the podcast. So what I want to do tonight is one, thank you so much for the bottled in bond, which I I that's what I picked. So I'm taking number three and Putting that into right into the the this this is the new mini infinity barrel idea that they came up with like does all of these minis like it's perfect for it and normally if I like a sample I'm gonna like want to safes a little bit to to because I like it the most but I have a whole freaking bottle so I don't didn't have to worry about that and then we're talking about the toasted and so I'm gonna dump the rest of the actually I'm just gonna do this let me skip it first and then part and then I'll put it in so that is added in what you got down uh and do a do a night at the distillery we can pull down some barrels and go through some some cool barrels we got going on yeah definitely uh let's do just not just a night but like what I would love to see how you do your blending process you know what I mean how you go through how what how you do it because everybody has a a little bit different way of doing it and then we do and then we finish up we do we could do a pot podcast and then if we're pulling some barrels down as I'm not I'm not pulling barrels off of the top of that let's let's just let's let's understand that these things are way up there I'll run the fork forklift and get it down I have no problem with that i've been in i've been in recycling and we've been stacking bales seven high for 22 years so i know what what it's like to have your forklift extended all the way up and how to do it so and i can do it with oSHA safety standards there you go yeah we'll let's do something special we'll get something planned and and we'll pull down some special barrels of we can try some try some different spirits not just urgent let's try right let's try a blend like let's do a blend with the podcast do a live blend show us show because uh one time ed Ed Blay who does old stubborn and old oh gosh it's not coming old stubby old it's not stubby old stubborn and old what was the other one um it's in the other room anyways another room to know the other room so one was based off of he bought pot still from West Virginia and now he has to now that older whiskey is running out so he has to come up with some MGP to keep his brand going but what I'll say to you is he came on the podcast and showed us how to blend and that would be great if you could have like how you do it with the barrels and and and and work with us on how blending works because what I was freaked out about when he did it and and he basically what legitimized my palate because he had 13 different barrels and old swagger thank you so as we were tasting through the barrels there was one really really hot and spicy I mean so hot and spicy it was crazy. And then there was another one that was as neutral as it gets and then there was all the in-between and I was like he's like we'll blend them together as I put them together and it put he's like what do you think and I'm like it seems like the blend is good but it needs a little bit more punch he goes that's what the spicy's for and then he put that in and we put a certain amount in and then he's like and then I'm like well that's a little too spicy and he's like okay that's what the neutral's for do you find that that's kind of what you do when you're doing your you you identify something like that and when you're blending because he definitely had all that to to come up with what he was looking for.

Single Barrels Notorious Fig And Fan Favorites

SPEAKER_06 1:55:54

Yeah blending is really it truly isn't art kind of my approach and my process is you always need to start any blend you do. It doesn't matter if it's a three barrel blend, a 10 barrel blend, a 40 barrel blend, you always have to start with a good base. So kind of talking about what you were the that neutral barrel that you were talking about Jeff you want to start with something that's moldable that's malleable. And that's kind of my approach with any blend that I'm doing you have to start with a good base and then you use those kind of specialty barrels those I call them one trick ponies so to speak something that has a really dominant flavor one way or the other whether it's spicy or it's sweet or whatever you use those barrels to to kind of mold that flavor profile even more. Yeah and we'll get you guys down and we'll do something special.

SPEAKER_00 1:56:43

And then also with blending I mean when you're blending the brand there's certain barrels that are fantastic but they have nothing to do with the brand and those always those are always good to go to single barrels right totally so okay all right you guys you guys still do your your single barrels that you have in the in the gift shop right we usually have a slew of different single barrels in the in the gift in the bottle shop at any given point no go ahead I had one bottle that I was obsessed with for like the last two years and it was called the uh the something fig.

SPEAKER_05 1:57:32

And everyone I know not yes the notorious fig that was like a notorious fake thing and I'm like I've had this for two years I brought it to so many shares everyone that knows me knows the bottle of watershed that was a notorious fig. So then I picked up one like a year and a half ago or two years ago that I got from the gift shop and I'm like oh this one's kind of dope like it's signed by one of the guys you guys can probably tell me who that is but I have I have this bottle I don't know how close I can get it to the camera but if you can see that or not it looks like yeah I can't I can't see from here there's a G on it I'll walk it over there. This one says that the founding father it's probably Greg it's Greg it's Greg yeah yeah down there and we were so on the notorious fig that I never even opened it I just left it there I'm like no no no you guys gotta try this and I we never got into this one but I feel like somebody there let me try it the last time I was there. And like well before you buy it do you want to try it I'm like oh that'd be great and I think we tried it there and I'm like this is super good I said that notorious fig one though I have no idea why but that was like my favorite thing ever. So that was always been my tasting bag anytime I went anywhere they're like oh well what is water spot in this and I'm like okay I would so many people try that around here I'm telling you anyone that comes down there that knows me they've had a notorious circuit before and I'm like dude this is the best thing I've ever had like this is fantastic. That was probably my favorite bottle I've ever had from you guys it's it's great. Well Ryan this one I'm gonna probably open this with Chris the next time I see him but hey I got it I got it where you're going listen you don't have to open it for me I have the bottle behind me. What are you talking about?

SPEAKER_00 1:59:11

That's why I knew the new I'm not surprised you have somebody's gotta bring notorious fig to Kentucky Bourbon festival and we are gonna drink it by the fire.

SPEAKER_05 1:59:21

I'm not sure I'm not letting you do that. So anyway hey guys we're we're two hours in I think we probably gotta let Ryan get out of here yeah I gotta I gotta get to get to get in here boys it's been fun though thank you for having me I appreciate it yep all right thanks Ryan thanks so much of course yeah thanks guys have a good night all right too yep there we go so yeah if you go through all the single barrels oh my god like the state of Ohio four or five years ago almost every one of those they did that was so good and then notorious big came out I mean there's been the back bar the front bar I mean so many different ones they they're all the playing cards Chris I know you'll have it of all the playing cards the ace the king queen jack the the king of heart or the king of diamond what was your favorite of those of those five shit I don't remember listen dude I'd have to go back through all that I don't know which one it was but there was some good ones I think it was the king of hearts that was so good.

Closing Plugs And Where To Follow

SPEAKER_00 2:00:42

I mean honestly the best thing uh that they that they did for me was what they produced like the best bottle Marianne Eve's ever produced is the watershed bottle and it she didn't even get credit but let's um end it so we could get everybody on all right I'm gonna grab my cheeseburger because I got a cheeseburger upstairs my wife is going to a berth she seems like she's going to a berth she's going to a berth that she doesn't have I don't know what she's doing she's like coming downstairs and loading up it's like there's nobody due anyways all right thank you everybody for tonight uh thanks for joining us CT and Matt we have to have a you you're Cleveland on the rocks thank you but you have to have a a Scotchy bourbon boys nickname and you could we gotta start the I I don't know what it is but we gotta come up with it at one point and and and I'm making a I'm making a whole t-shirt line on the word stuff and I'm gonna start doing shirts that say stuff on it so it'll be bourbon stuff and different stuff and it'll all have stuff on it.

SPEAKER_05 2:02:00

And I feel like this is going to be like a big thing. It'll be awesome so your name should just be stuff stuff's coming on tonight well that wasn't what I was thinking but it's got to be some in the lines of like the stuff you know well the reason that everyone online says stuff is I feel like I've said that so many times that it just kind of caught on with everyone it does because because when you do stuff things happen.

SPEAKER_00 2:02:23

That's right stuff happens all the time you know all right www dot scotchyburbonboys.com for all things scotchy bourbon boys make sure you check us out we've got Glenn's we've got t-shirts we've got bourbon balls and then make sure you follow us on Facebook Instagram YouTube and Axon along with Apple iHeart and Spotify and anywhere else you listen or watch us no matter what make sure you leave good feedback become a member definitely support us in any way that you can and support the brands that we bring on like when you see these brands support them support ohio support whoever it is but because support them because good bourbon equals good friends and good times don't drink and drive drink responsibly and live your life uncut and unfiltered and I just screwed that up here we go to the