Buffalo Trace Expanded By Billions And Why They Still Dominate The Allocated Bourbon Market

We taste and score Weller 12 bottle by bottle, then zoom out to why Buffalo Trace keeps winning even as the bourbon market cools. We dig into the $1.2B expansion, the aging-time reality behind “scarcity”, and how marketing and mindset shape what we think we taste.
• Weller 12 barrel-to-bottle breakdown across nose, body, taste and finish
• proof talk and why 90 proof changes the experience
• Buffalo Trace expansion details and what they actually change
• why allocated bourbon stays tight despite more production
• 2026 to 2032 outlook for availability, lines and secondary prices
• Eagle Rare lineup talk and what Eagle Rare 12 signals
• Chicago vs Ohio distribution stories and bottle-hunting reality
• Traveler debate and how blind tasting flips assumptions
• why exclusivity and packaging can matter as much as flavour
• a deep dive on ultrasonic-in-barrel maturation ideas with American Metal Whiskey
www.scotchybourbonboys.com for all things Scotchy Bourbon Boys. Make sure that you follow us on Facebook, YouTube, Instagram, and X, and also on Apple, iHeart, and Spotify, and if you're on Apple, leave really, really good five-star reviews with a review, and if you're on YouTube, become a member.

Buffalo Trace just finished a massive expansion and yet Weller, Blanton’s, Eagle Rare, and E.H. Taylor still feel like they vanish the moment they hit a shelf. We get honest about why that contradiction isn’t really a contradiction at all, and what it means for anyone chasing allocated bourbon over the next few years.

We start with a full Weller 12 tasting and score it the Scotchy Bourbon Boys way: nose, body, taste, and finish. Expect straight talk on the buttery butterscotch profile, the dusty oak and cherry notes, and the big question that always comes up with Weller 12: does 90 proof hold it back, or is that softness exactly why it works? From there we connect the glass to the bigger market, including why some Buffalo Trace releases drink “premium” even when the proof looks modest on paper.

Then we zoom out to the bourbon industry trends heading into 2026 and beyond: the $1.2B Buffalo Trace expansion, the unavoidable aging lag that keeps demand ahead of supply, and why secondary prices and lotteries still rule access. The roundtable brings heat too: Eagle Rare 12 chatter, Chicago availability stories, the Traveler whiskey debate, and a reminder that blind tasting can embarrass even confident palates. We also welcome Greg to unpack a wild concept: ultrasonic sound waves inside a barrel to enhance maturation for American Metal Whiskey.

If you care about Buffalo Trace, allocated whiskey, Weller, Eagle Rare, and where the bourbon market is heading, this one’s for you. Subscribe, share with a bourbon friend, and leave us a five-star review so more people can find the show.

voice over Whiskey Thief

If You Have Gohsts

Transcript

Sponsor Pour And Welcome

SPEAKER_12 0:01

Middlewest Spirits was founded in 2008, focusing on elevating the distinct flavors of the Ohio River Valley. Their spirits honor their roots and reflect their originality as makers, their integrity as producers, and their passion for crafting spirits from grain to glass. Their Michelon Reserve line reflects their story from the start to the bottle to your glass, with unique wheated and rye bourbons, and also rye and wheat whiskies, the Michelone brand is easy to step. It might be a grain to glass experience, but I like to think of it as uncut and unfiltered from their family to yours. Tonight we have a very special guest with us, Matt Lisen from Cleveland on the Rocks. Welcome, my friend. Woo!

SPEAKER_16 2:09

Yes, sir. Thank you, thank you.

SPEAKER_12 2:11

Yeah, it's like we had uh the pregame. I have no whiskey in me. I don't even know what's happening here. Maybe that's it. I've just been cutting back too much, and I'm just like then the technical stuff just goes to, you know, I just keep getting worse and worse, right? I need to have something, right? Yeah, I need to have something in me. Uh, you know. Welcome everybody. www.scotchybourbonboys.com for all things Scotchy Bourbon Boys. We've got Glenn Cairns t-shirts. We did just update the website, so that's kind of cool. So you should check it out. It's not completely updated, but there's new pictures, and there's a bunch of updates on our AI, what would you say? AI bios, which is really kind of cool. They get don't. So we've got Kirk watching tonight. He's on Facebook and he's on YouTube at the same time. That's a treat, a trick that you haven't been even able to pull off yet, Matt, right?

SPEAKER_02 3:13

I can put one on this TV if I turn it on. And the volume might be crazy right now.

SPEAKER_12 3:18

Well, tonight I'm monitoring comments from three different places. One, I got, I was like, well, I haven't been able to monitor the comments on my screen because it hasn't been working. And all of a sudden, tonight, for some reason, it's working. I don't know why. So I'm monitoring Facebook on my phone and whatever on both, it's just like whatever. So, but that's neither here nor there. Remember that, yes, we we just did the the website. And remember, we're on Facebook, YouTube, Instagram, and X, and also on Apple, iHeart, and Spotify, or anywhere else you want to listen or watch us, just make sure that you do all the fun things like an Apple, leave really, really good five-star reviews with a review that helps us out immensely in our rankings. And then if you're on YouTube, become a member. Top shelf, mid-shelf, and bottom shelf Kirk that's on tonight. He is a top shelf member, our first ever working on what I gotta do for that. There, we're also on Patreon. So, whatever you can do to support us, we take all of it, no matter what, all of it, and we put it back into the podcast. And, you know, that's been an insane, insane last week for me. So

Where To Follow And Support

SPEAKER_12 4:40

well, well, CT's drinking a little Barton's tonight, he said. Blantons, I mean, Blanton's. I'm sorry, because it is a Buffalo Trace. It's the Buffalo Trace. You know, so yeah, and Buffalo Trace distillery is one of the most fascinating stories in bourbon right now because they are simultaneously dealing with massive production increases, still not being able to set up spy demand for many of their brands. And we're gonna tonight go over the current 2026 landscape. That's what we want to do. But before we do that, we are going to do awesome brand from Buffalo Trace. We are gonna get right to the barrel bottle breakdown of the Scotchy Bourbon Boys, sponsored by the Scotchy Bourbon Boys and Cleveland on the rocks. I'll throw it out there tonight because Chris Thompson says I want sunglasses too. Hey, I have an extra pair, right, Matt?

SPEAKER_02 5:39

He does. He has a second pair.

SPEAKER_12 5:41

Yeah, so if he wants, if he wants to, I could probably get him a backup, my backup pair for a reasonable amount right there, right?

SPEAKER_02 5:50

He tried to get me to wear them for a while. I was like, I don't know if I'm gonna wear sunglasses at night. You know, I'm not cool enough yet. I'm working on it in this June thing.

SPEAKER_12 5:57

Well, and and and the Amazon thing that's been happening, which anybody who's been following us in the post-podcasts, I don't know why this is, but I gotta sit on my shirt in the post-podcast. Anybody who's been following that should know that we're in the process. I I get a lot of stuff now, and uh, I've been actually getting actual Ray Bans, which is confusing my wife because right now she used to be able to follow me around and know kind of with these, because there's a lot of stuff happening with these. There's they talk and you can kind of hear it, and then you they they're they light up when you're taking pictures or whatever. But with the regular Ray bands, I got three pairs of those, and they're and you really can't tell the difference. It's like she don't know if I'm recording or and I I've just been I wear I I've got three pairs, so I wear those to work. I I wear them for fun, I wear them so I've just I've I feel like I've had them on probably about 90% of my life for the last week.

unknown 7:03

That's awesome.

SPEAKER_12 7:04

Yeah, and I'm in the basement. I got them on tonight, so that's kind of cool. So I'm ready. I'm ready to rock and roll. Here we go. So we are gonna do the barrel bottle breakdown of Weller 12. I've had this bottle now. What how long have you had your bottle? Are they both open?

SPEAKER_02 7:22

This one's open. I'm working on doing the whole rainbow video at some point here soon. But this one's been open since single barrel Saturday. And this six months.

SPEAKER_12 7:33

I think I picked this up at single barrel Saturday too, but I think did you have a choice? The 12-year was just available, right? And we picked that's what we picked that's what we picked up. So I'm gonna crack this baby. Yeah, there we go.

SPEAKER_02 7:49

And so I think our store was lucky enough to have like four cases when I got there. So I'm like everybody pretty much got a well as well.

SPEAKER_12 7:55

Yeah, and Weller 12, the one thing about Weller 12 is the uh a lot of the Wellers, the full proof and Weller 107, besides the Weller Special Reserve, they uh and CYPB, they're higher proofs.

Cracking Open Weller 12

SPEAKER_12 8:10

But this proof is, I believe it's 80, right? No, it's 94. 90. 90? 90. 90, yeah. Okay, so it's 90 proof. It's not an 80 proof, but it's a 90 proof. And a lot of people who with Weller who what would you say, who have the criticism of 12 is that it's a lower proof of the weller. Now, tonight I am gonna put it in something that I what has eluded me forever. And on Wednesday, I went to a barrel pick with I was going to a barrel pick with Randy Prassy, the Kentucky Bourbon Festival president, and I have been trying to get Kentucky Bourbon Festival Crystal Glen forever. Forever. I have been trying to do it. Nash got his early on. There's a where that's a whole story, but that was that was interesting. What was that telling me? Well, anyways, I'm gonna check this microphone just to make sure what we got going here. Do we got this microphone going here? As that kicks in, I just kicked that baby in. It kicked on. Now we're both working, and I want to just see the percentage on those 24 and 16. So we got 24 on this one. We're gonna be having some microphone fun tonight, okay? So we'll just do that, and I'm gonna punch punch this one back in. All right, get that back charging, but we got the 24 on this one, all right. That's perfect. So with this, with this Glenn, I was able to obtain that. We went to the barrel pick, and afterwards we went up to the Bartiam Bartiamo's penthouse offices of the Kentucky Burman Festival. Now, I think you've been up there with me, right, Matt? You went up there? Correct?

SPEAKER_02 10:18

Yeah, top floor. I didn't get to go up there. I was trying to wave in the line and spin that wheel.

SPEAKER_12 10:27

Okay. Well, all I'm gonna say is I was able to obtain this glass that day, and it I it made my it was, I felt like I was the birthday boy.

SPEAKER_02 10:40

That's pretty sweet. I'm gonna have to get up there with you. You're gonna have to like take me up there this year.

SPEAKER_12 10:44

Yeah, we'll get you up there. We'll get you up there. But the Weller 12 is we're we're gonna put it to the barrel bottle breakdown. Well, it's 90-proof, and it's 12 years old. So every it's that's the youngest that's in there. And every year, I always find that there's better years than others, but with the 12, it seems to get better every year. And the barrel bottle breakdown rating system is based off of nose, body, taste, and finish, those four categories. And uh, in those four categories, the nose and the body, you could give up to four knocks on the barrel with our barrel hammer, and then you could give up five knocks on the barrel for taste and finish for a total of 18. But if one's exceptional, you can give this a butt up up. That's what we call one extra for one category each time that you do this. So as we keep going forward, drop the microphone. As we keep going forward, we will uh rate this this one. I mean, let's let's get it going, right?

SPEAKER_02 12:02

Yeah, absolutely. Obviously, I like mine a little bit more than you did so far, so you know. Mine's almost gone. I'm gonna have to open another one here, Cena.

SPEAKER_12 12:12

Mine just got mine just opened. I believe I have another one somewhere, but I wanted to go with the newest one.

unknown 12:20

Nice.

SPEAKER_12 12:21

So the nose on this is definitely Buffalo Trace and Weller. You know what I mean? It's got that, it's got that little, it's got that caramel with

Nose And Body Scoring

SPEAKER_12 12:30

a little bit of the cinnamon apple kind of flavor that I always find that I'll or chair a little bit. And then it also has a dusty note to it. You know what I mean? That little bit that you get on a with that 12, you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_02 12:47

I said this one to me is like an oaky butter scatching. But the dusty, I see the dusty because there has to be some water juice in this because this smells like fantastic. This is one of my favorite scents that you get from the weather. We're gonna find that out when I do my blind sticks of all of them. So black maybe wrong when I guess that one.

SPEAKER_12 13:07

I hey, I was last time I at that my bottle of CYPB, I was not happy with when I got it. And somehow in the blind, it won everything. So I guess it just tells you why, what I who knows, right? It's just how it is. I mean, our what it's what it is, what our day is. And Walker said, what Kirk said? What did Kirk say? Brendy, he said. Okay, yeah. And then Walker said the Brendy Ammo. I I said Bartolamo. Brendy ammo, thank you. Thank you, Walker. I'm sorry, Stacy and Randy. Uh, you you guys know me, but Brent Brendy ammo is the penthouse up above the offices, and it is a fantastic place. We were up there, and I absolutely had a great time that night, a great time that day. And then the next day, Matt, we I wake up, I go to Whiskey Thief, wait for wait for Walter. Walter's finds out Walter's running late for fun business reasons, and then I head over and I see Brian. Oh my god. Booth. Everybody calls him Booth. Booth is great, and and uh go up to the thing and we kind of wait, and all of a sudden what there's Walker. I mean Walter. Walter's he comes up, and the first thing Walter says is I'm not drinking today. And Booth's like, oh, here's your here's your here's your pour.

unknown 14:40

That's awesome.

SPEAKER_12 14:40

Yeah. Anyways, so let's uh give I'll keep going as we do this, and then we'll we'll start that and bring everybody in. Oh let's see. I don't know.

SPEAKER_02 14:53

Am I first on this one or are you the first on this one?

SPEAKER_12 14:55

You could go first on the nose.

SPEAKER_02 14:58

I don't know how this one goes. I want the first nose that comes out of here. So I would go a four on this I mean.

SPEAKER_12 15:06

You're going four.

SPEAKER_02 15:08

I drink this one constantly.

SPEAKER_12 15:10

Alright, I'll give you a four. There we go. I don't know what more you want to smell on a 12-year. I agree. I smell the butt butterscotch. I smell a little bit of the dusty, a little bit of cherry. Yeah, I'll go with, I'll agree with you on that. It's kind of like our rating system is a lot simpler than a lot of other rating systems. But at the same time, how often do we rate something that's not that's not a quality whiskey? You know, there's not a lot of times that we've got lower ratings. Every once in a while it pops up, right? But how often do we do that? So, all right, so it's now let's do the body. I I'm just loving it in this glass. This this is this is the first pour in this glass, so it's an honor. And I I I that I have this crystal, I have the Scotchy Bourbon Boys Crystal Glen Karen, and I have Middle West Spirits Crystal Glen Karen. So that is a trio of crystal glens, and I'm just gonna say the it holds up in the glass, right?

SPEAKER_02 16:27

It does, it's got some decent lights out there. I would definitely the legs rounded on this glass. But what I'll say.

SPEAKER_12 16:38

Well, I will say, out of all of the wellers, even compared to like what would you say? Korhoff says it's solid. I agree. You can't hear Matt on YouTube. Alright. How can I do okay? But you can hear me on YouTube. Alright, so let's get this YouTube one between us. I'll turn Matt up a little bit. Oh. I could. I think what I gotta do is I gotta hit that. Is that it? Nope. There's the mute. Let's do that. Okay. Up, up, up, up. Let's try that for the microphone.

SPEAKER_02 17:31

Can you hear me?

SPEAKER_12 17:32

Yeah, we'll find that out. Okay. Chris is saying he said the same on his end. Alright, let's uh see about you.

SPEAKER_16 17:43

Can you gotta hear me over there?

SPEAKER_12 17:47

Alright, I'm trying to put the microphones. I'll put them so that alright. And I'll turn you up. I can do that. Alright, try talking now.

SPEAKER_02 17:59

Can you guys hear me now?

SPEAKER_12 18:01

It's that the it's not gonna be on your end, Matt. This is on my end that we couldn't hear you. Alright.

SPEAKER_02 18:09

Oh no, I know. I was just putting you two button over here. Can you guys hear me over there?

SPEAKER_12 18:16

Alright, I'm trying. Okay. Let's see what happens. Alright, that goes like that. Like that. Is there any more buttons? Is that a button? Alright, that might help. I think I got it.

SPEAKER_02 18:32

Can you guys hear me over there?

SPEAKER_12 18:34

Alright. Swedish fish on the nose of 12. Alright. They're not responding very quickly, are they? I'll try and let me see if I can get my volume up on the. Alright.

SPEAKER_16 18:54

I don't know if you guys can hear me over there, but you know.

SPEAKER_12 19:03

I'm gonna. I it's like it's okay. This is cool. Alright. There's volume. Alright, let's see. I'm gonna. I it's like it's okay. This is cool. There's volume.

SPEAKER_16 19:26

Hold on, just a hand brain.

SPEAKER_12 19:34

I don't know why you're not picking up. Alright, I gotta get you right up to the Facebook.

SPEAKER_02 19:47

Well, I got there's a hand on your screen right now that I'm looking at it looks like this. Right in front of your screen, right next to your glass. On what? I don't think I get anything on my TV that I can see on my phone. Oh wait, wait a minute. It was like a hand like this. It looked like it in this way.

SPEAKER_12 20:07

Okay. Alright. I got you closer to the microphone. Well, there's a feedback. Well, I don't even know how that happened. But we'll see.

unknown 20:22

Alright.

SPEAKER_12 20:25

Super faint. Yes, I know.

SPEAKER_02 20:30

I usually feel like I talk pretty decently loud, but you know. I'm trying.

SPEAKER_12 20:34

I have the sound all the way up and I've got you down. Alright, anyways. But they can people could hear you on Facebook and you might be faint on YouTube. I you know, I don't know why I'm coming. Let's try it like that. Alright, now I might that might work. Alright, well, that's the last thing I'm doing. Alright, so, anyways, let's go. So, I'm gonna say the body is the weak point of 12. Don't you agree?

SPEAKER_02 21:04

I do. The legs are are pretty thick here.

SPEAKER_12 21:09

Well, plus when you drink it, it's very soft. There's not a lot of bite. You pick up some of the butterscotch in the char, but it does it doesn't go into your cheeks or how much it's so I would say it's an average body for anything, especially for Weller. So I'm gonna give it a two out of four.

SPEAKER_02 21:38

Yeah, I think I'm gonna be right there with you. I'm gonna be around like a two to three area. I'll say I'll say a three because this is one of my favorite bottles of four. It does have some decent lights, but they're just not very it's different.

SPEAKER_12 21:50

It's almost like yeah, I mean at 90 proof. One, two, three. All right. So you go first on taste, you can give up. Up to five.

SPEAKER_02 22:05

See the taste for this one, I think, is overly butter scotchy. This is that. Oh, it comes through perfect. It hits your mid palette, works its way back. There's no heat, there's no hug, there's nothing like that. I would say for me, this would be a three. I wish this was at like 105 proof. I think that would be perfect for a 12-year 105-proof. But I think the proof point kind of holds it back a little bit from being the perfect port.

SPEAKER_12 22:33

So so Kirk actually put up a super chat and he said top shelf. Gargle my balls. I'm gonna read it. That's the way to go. Alright, anyways, appreciate the super chat. And so taste. So you gave it a three. So did what are you thinking on that?

SPEAKER_02 23:00

I love this body. I I'm going with a three. This is the only way it could be better would be if it was at like 105 proof. And then it would be it's gonna be. So what do you go three out of the half?

SPEAKER_12 23:14

Wait. It's out of five.

SPEAKER_02 23:18

A five?

SPEAKER_12 23:19

For tasting.

Taste Finish And Final Rating

SPEAKER_02 23:20

But I don't go four. Oh, you're still on four things.

SPEAKER_12 23:23

Nope, four. We did you did a three, a four and a three on the fours, and now you're going four out of five on the taste.

SPEAKER_02 23:33

Yeah, because I love this battle. We drink these all the time. There's always a half-empty one or an almost empty one, and we have to open another one all the time.

SPEAKER_12 23:40

So I think this I think honestly. Well, of course. If it, yeah, I agree. I don't know why at the 12 they didn't proof it out so high, but also in in in defense of them, if they put it out at a higher proof, there'd be way less. And when you get to 12, you're you're really looking at Weller's Weller's mash bill, weed and mash bill is the same as Pappy's. So a lot of the when a lot of the other stuff is under, you know, is underaged Pappy, but Pappy comes on at 10, and then Van Winkle, you know, the lot B, that is 12. So it's competing with the Van Winkle 12. The two are the 12 years are the 12 years that don't make Van Winkle 12, or they make the Weller profile. And so Van Winkle 12 comparatively, they're different, different proofs and whatnot. So I find this to be one of my, I agree. I love the it's got a dusty char flavor. It's got the butterscotch. It's more buttery butterscotch. There's a lot of butter on it. Yeah. I would say, Kirk, they added water to help offset the the the just to just to make sure there's enough to sell more bottles, right? So I will agree with you. I love the taste of this, and I'll give it a four out of five also. So this comes to the finish now. And and this one's very complicated because it's a 12-year. It finishes way better longer than any well other weller. But what is the finish is the question. The butterscotch, the cherry, and then there's some oak, which is a but the oak char, it's like a charred oak with the cherry coming through underneath. It really doesn't pull. So, but it goes, it goes for a while. So I'm gonna give it, you know, for a 90-proof and whatnot, it's very similar. It reminds me of what scotches do. You know what I'm saying? There's that smoky char in there, it's got like a scotchy kind of finish with some cherry, whatever, and it goes for a while because scotches always go for a while. So I'm gonna give it a four out of five, also, on this.

SPEAKER_02 26:43

I think it would pay that this one picture tongues, but it doesn't get into your cheeks. Says a lot about the finish of this. Like I I think this is like almost the perfect four. If I was to pick one off the shelf, I would pick the 12. Probably eight out of ten times. And if not, I'd pick a different one just to be different than everyone else at the table. But I think I would go with the four with this one too, because the finish is just kind of perfect pokiness. With like that slight butter stash, it stays with you all day long.

SPEAKER_12 27:11

Yeah. I I agree. So what what are you giving? You give it a four, you said.

SPEAKER_02 27:17

I'm going with four with yeah. Yeah, that's perfect.

unknown 27:20

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 27:20

If this was just like 10 through higher, I think this would be like that. Uh uh.

SPEAKER_12 27:28

Yeah. I will say so too. So I believe mine was uh so we both agreed that the nose was the was the four, so it was like you were four. Were you four straight across the board for 16 out of 18? I think you were.

SPEAKER_02 28:01

I think I had a three in there. I think I'm at 15.

SPEAKER_12 28:05

Cause oh yeah, because you were four. Okay, so you're 15 and I'm 14 out of 18 because I gave it a two on the body, and you gave it a three on the body, and then we both gave four. Yeah, yep. So this one's a 14.5 out of 18 that we did. So there we go.

SPEAKER_02 28:29

I like the 0.5. I like what bugs comes out with that.

SPEAKER_12 28:34

There's two of us. What can we do?

unknown 28:38

Right.

SPEAKER_12 28:39

And it's the only way we don't get a this would be the perfect for what's that? The only way we don't have a 0.5 is if we both agreed on what the flavor was.

SPEAKER_02 28:53

Or we both have even numbers the whole time. That would be good.

SPEAKER_12 28:57

No, it wouldn't.

SPEAKER_02 28:58

Or you had a five and a 2.

SPEAKER_12 29:00

Oh, I sub I suppose I had a 14 and you had a 16, that would have put us at 15. Yeah. I it's you you you did school me right there. Too bad they don't they don't have a weller 15. They do. It's called Pappy15. It's damn good. That's what what Korhoff said.

SPEAKER_02 29:18

Have you tried the kosher weeded yet? Because I feel like that has the profile of these wellers, and it's perfect. I just got the video for it next week. Like it's dude, it's amazing.

SPEAKER_12 29:28

Say that again?

SPEAKER_02 29:31

Have you tried the kosher weeded yet?

SPEAKER_12 29:36

Where? How? What? On what? The what weeded?

SPEAKER_02 29:40

Kosher, the buffalo trace.

SPEAKER_12 29:42

Kosher weeded. I've had kosher wheat before, yes. But but it just does it. Are you saying it's just been released?

SPEAKER_02 29:52

It it did, it came to Ohio. So it's all over the place.

SPEAKER_12 29:57

When? I'm always gone. That's the problem. My store doesn't just found it, so my store doesn't I want one if he can get one. I mean, if he's getting multiple ones.

SPEAKER_02 30:10

I know. See, I have samples of all the bottles that we just shot all the videos for the next two weeks on. So I got the kosher street rye, I got uh old Forester barrel proof rye, I got the kosher weeks, and then the kosher street rye. So I held all of them in little sample on.

SPEAKER_12 30:30

Yep.

SPEAKER_02 30:32

We've been working on it. I started doing videos again, so I I'm actually having some really cool products come over all the time now.

SPEAKER_12 30:38

Yeah, I did notice that you're doing videos again.

SPEAKER_02 30:43

Yeah, and you noticed what I started with, right?

SPEAKER_12 30:46

Yeah. A lot of beer.

SPEAKER_02 30:49

You do the Riviera?

SPEAKER_12 30:50

What?

SPEAKER_02 30:51

No, we didn't do the beer, we did the Riviera with my first one.

SPEAKER_12 30:55

You're yeah, okay, so that's your that okay, so that's sitting right now at the Penelope Barrel Strength Riviera, and what was the other one? There was another one. Oh no, the Architect, all saying Brulee. It's called the Architect Creme Boule.

SPEAKER_16 31:15

The Architect's the Creme Boule one. Yeah, I have one of the up there. They just came out last week.

SPEAKER_12 31:22

Yeah, I know. I wasn't here. I asked my guy. I asked my guy if he was I asked him if he was in what would you say? I'm gonna s let's see what happens if I switch these around. How about that? That might work. I asked my I asked my guy if he could. I asked my store if he had the bookers, and nope. He's just got what so I'm like hoping bookers drops at his store this week. Because I need the bookers.

SPEAKER_16 32:01

So you didn't get a booker yet?

SPEAKER_12 32:02

No, I was gonna like I was gonna get it from the distillery, but that didn't happen because that you know, yeah. Yeah, I've seen them. I've seen them all over. I I just haven't gotten. And then and then it's just like when you go away for as long as I've been gone, it is nuts that how much I got and how much I missed out on. I I mean, I beat the crap, I've been beating the crap out of myself, that's for sure.

SPEAKER_02 32:36

You know, do you remember when we were in New Orleans? And everyone's like, man, Rio's dropping, and I'm like, I'm not even at home, this sucks. And then I had to have everybody go grab stuff, and then I had to come home to a couple, which is awesome. Thank you, Roxy, as well, because you are awesome. And yeah, you gotta do stuff when you're not in town, you know what I'm saying? Just to make sure you get all the stuff so you don't miss it.

SPEAKER_12 32:57

Yeah, but I was doing stuff when I wasn't in town. Like I got this right here, this this commander-in-chief, which I never thought that, you know, I'm like thinking I'm not getting anything like that, but it sure did it set me back, that's for sure. We'll see what happens with that. That's gonna be pretty cool. The George Washington's distillery, uh, me and Roxy went to the Philadelphia. If we went to Philadelphia, she got she had a test done, which was all good so far. And then we then went to Stolen Wolf. If if Chris is still watching, I picked him up a rose and rye there, got myself their bourbon, tasted all their ryes and and their bourbons. That was that was fun. Eric Wolf was fantastic. You got to get there. And then we went to George Washington distillery and Matt Bell showed us around, and it was great to see the grist mill work, the distillery. They're not distilling right now, but they don't. They usually distill in March and November. So I'm looking forward to maybe in November trying to get out there. You know what I mean? So, anyways, that's that's that's my week of driving. I believe it was 39 total hours between the ghost tour, going to Kentucky for Randy's barrel pick, and then hanging out with Whiskey Thief and old Carter together, and then coming back, and then driving to Philadelphia, going to Stolen Wolf, and then headed over to George Washington and drove back. It was it was rough, and then I came back. We got back yesterday and uh or Sunday and I was at work back at work Monday, Tuesday, and it's already Wednesday. Me and Roxy have our 40th anniversary coming up May 24th. So this weekend we've got it all set up for some fun at Jervassi. We're gonna be staying at Jervasi, so that's gonna be I'm gonna bring some damn good pores there, see what happens, go from there.

SPEAKER_02 35:02

That's awesome. Congrats on the anniversary, guys. That's killer. All right, so Mike, I said what's up.

SPEAKER_12 35:07

So let's let's we've done this. Let's get into the the heat of this podcast. I do believe I gave you the outline too. Why the hell did it just do that? That is crazy. I just turned it purple. What happened? Holy crap. How is that even possible?

SPEAKER_02 35:31

What did my mic work again? I had to switch mics here because my mic's out perking here. I don't know what's going on with my two. I feel like yours is making mine not work.

SPEAKER_12 35:39

I'm gonna flip back over this mic. I think that'll have enough. All right, so we'll turn this one on. Yep, that one's on. I'll put that one up and we'll see. Now we're back to one mic. I think it's gonna come hook hook up to both mics. Here we go.

SPEAKER_02 36:00

Oh my gosh. I'm gonna idiot. So you know when you buy your microphones, they come with a little plastic piece over the charging, little two dots on them. It never took the plastic off. I wonder why I kept dying every freaking 10 minutes. I look down at it and I'm like, it's not charging either, so it's doing really weird stuff. I'm learning stuff.

SPEAKER_12 36:21

So what did it do? All right, let's go. Mail edit. Nope, it won't let me go back. It is now uh an actual reply. All right, here we go. I'm gonna take these off and I'll just read it. All right. So what did Buffalo Trace do to like? I mean, honestly, they completely are what would you say? They're like not they're immune to what's going on, right?

SPEAKER_02 37:09

I think so, because they're not they're never selling less. You know what I'm saying? It seems like they're always selling more and more, and now it's coming around more and more. More Buffalo Trace in the store, weller special reserve in the store. They have more products on the shelves than I've ever seen.

SPEAKER_12 37:24

And it's a massive expansion, okay? Buffalo Trace completed a roughly 10-year $1.2 billion expansion project in January of 2025. The expansion included new still houses, a new still house, more fermenters, additional dry houses, expanded bottling operations. I'm gonna, you know what? I'm just gonna fix this. Mail. I'm gonna get rid of that. Mail file. New Let's just see new viewer window. All right.

Buffalo Trace Expansion Explained

SPEAKER_12 38:10

Where is my it should be right here? There it is. Double click it. All right, it's up. Now I should be able to blow up. Nope, that was the wrong one. But I'm sorry, people, but this is just technically what I'm gonna do because I didn't all right. So we said additional dry houses, expanded bottle operations, new water treatment system, nearly 20 new aging warehouses, expanded distribution infrastructure. The capacity reportedly increased from roughly 200,000 barrels annually to over 500,000 barrels annually. Some reports state overall production capacity increased by 150% or more. Distillation capacity has effectively doubled or more depending on the metric used. Now, we had Harlan Wheatley on here. We're gotta do another podcast now that this has happened, right? But he's been on twice and he basically said they will double it. And I'm like, well, how do you double it and do those still houses? You know what I mean? And those, and they have they have gone and matched, like they have in the original, not still house, but warehouse for aging of just let's just say blantons in the in in where I want to say warehouse H, which is a metal rick house there, and everybody knows where it is, and that's where Blantons comes from. Well, they basically made double the amount of them, put them at the same angle and whatever, but then they take measurements of humidity and heat throughout the day at the original rick house and then match it through climate control in the other ones. It's it's unbelievable the detail that they have to do that. So they've been upping their production and they finally finished that that thing, you know, the the expansion in 2025, right? In January of 2025. All of a sudden everything starts slowing down. But this is one of the largest bourbon expansions in industry history. But why are the products still hard to find, right?

SPEAKER_02 40:45

Wouldn't you say, because if you don't have that and everybody can get it all the time, then you don't want it as much. Even with the still keep it that way, but put out more at the same time.

SPEAKER_12 40:57

Even with the expansion, Buffalo Trace still cannot meet the demand for brands like Blanton, Eagle Rare, E.H. Taylor, Weller, Pappy Van Winkle. The main reason bourbon aging lag. Okay, the new whiskey being distilled today will not become Eagle Rare 10 for 10 years, Weller Antique for several years, and Pappy for well over a decade. So even though Buffalo Trace has dramatically increased production, the market still has to wait for those brands to mature. But they did start increasing at one point. Uh you know what I mean? They they started increasing at one point, and so we they are meeting some of the demand, right?

SPEAKER_02 41:45

Yeah, but there is a lot more in the stores. You know what? I have a question though. So if they're making and mirroring warehouse H across to another one temperature and everything, uh are the honey spots where they get like the really good bottles from the barrels, dude. Is it the same in both brick houses then?

SPEAKER_12 42:05

It should be close. And and when I talked to Harlan about it, he was very specific on what he said. You know what I'm saying? He was really specific. You know, I'm just gonna say that sounds really cool. So he said it was gonna be double. So they haven't backed off though. If you look at Jim Beam, you look at Heaven Hill, I don't think the I think Jim Beam and Heaven Hill at this point, they've been producing and able to produce, so they have they they have enough inventory that they can shut down the Claremont plant for a year, do all the stuff they need to do. I mean, this isn't a bourbon recession, it's not less, it's more as you go, right? It's like it, but it's not, it's not, it's just it's the same. So this year and last year, so it's basically, you know, plateaued, but it's plateaued at the level of where we we we went up to. It's not like it's going down to where it was before. So, but I don't believe Buffalo Trace is playing by those same rules. I think they produce the whiskey they produce, and people like it the way they are, and everything they're doing. Demand street is still extremely high. Buffalo Trace sits in a unique position versus the broader bourbon market. While many distilleries are seeing slowing whiskey sales over stocked warehouses, production slowdowns, export pressure, and tariffs, Buffalo Trace's premium and allocated products remaining among the most demanded bourbons in the world. All right, even Buffalo Trace itself, which is their main product, that is not allocated, but it's allocated. Because they can't keep it on the shelf, right? I mean they put it on the phone. Oh, we can't down. They put out an olive. Do you still see it released and it's still not just sitting there?

SPEAKER_02 44:14

We have the displays now and all the stories by me where those round displays with the buffalo on top and there's the levels. Okay. We have those and they're full, I guess.

SPEAKER_12 44:22

Good. So they're meaning demand. Secondary prices remain high. I was driving last Wednesday to go to the barrel pick at Barstown Bourbon Company, and Nash lets me know when I'm 20 minutes past that they're the Buffalo Trace is dropping EH Taylor four grain, which they they're going to be doing it every Wednesday in May. And it's just like that's something that they aren't able to do all the time. And that's that's fantastic that they have enough. It wasn't like they were just giving out some and people were getting ripped off. There was lines and they people got it. They were getting them. So that was pretty good. But all right, so the secondary prices are remaining high, allocations remain tight, lottery system still dominates retail access. Distillery gift shop releases create long lines daily. Their own site now publicly posts rotating daily availability and bottle limits because demand is so intense. Now there is some leftover where you go in and if you get a Blanton's, they're like, Well, you're not, well, we'll let you buy more Blantons. So they have been meeting to the demand for a little bit. Now, the strategy appears to be changing. Buffalo Trace is starting to leverage the expansion in smarter ways. Example, launch of Eagle Rare 12, more experimental releases, larger tourism investments, new reservation systems, increased distillery bottle drops. The Eagle Rare 12 release is particularly important because it signals Buffalo Trace finally has enough aging inventory to expand the lineup beyond the legacy core product of 10 years. So that's what we're looking for. So the big industry question is the bourbon industry overall is cooling from the pandemic boom. Major companies like Jim Beamer are actually slowing production due to softer demands and excess inventory. I think it's the excess interview, it's not softer demands. It's just that they're not saying we need to produce more because the demand went up again, right? So that's what we're looking at. But Buffalo Trace appears to believe their premium brands are insulated, global demand remains strong. And tourism and prestige branding matter. The allocated bourbon craze is not ending soon. And we've seen the allocated bourbon craze just it, it's it's just as strong as it ever, right? Matt, I mean, you know, absolutely.

SPEAKER_02 47:12

Yeah, because there's still lines out there every time anything drops. So it's it's still there. You know, and I think Buffalo Trace also lifted their uh their 90-day jail thing. So now you can go in and you can do it more often, from what I heard.

SPEAKER_12 47:27

Well, I haven't been there since last year, so I don't know, but they have lifted it on some bottles. Like for instance, you can buy Taylor and Blanton's, which used to have the 90-day thing. Now that's that's been lifted. But that's small batch Taylor and Blanton's. But it's still the same if they if you buy if you get something else that that they're releasing. Then you're then you're still in the 90 days. Yeah. If they're gonna release any of that. So then that the the reason why they continue expanding, that's why they're continuing expanding. And what it means short term to us in 26 through 28, you'll likely still see scarcity allocation, secondary flipping, long gift shop lines, difficult retail access. Midterm 28 to 32, more available, eagle rare. We've already seen this, okay? Better weller supply, more age. I think that you know, Ohio's had great weller supply, but I think all the states will have great, you know. We see it, the weller supply now in Chicago with John Ritt, right?

SPEAKER_16 48:50

So that's John gets everything up there.

SPEAKER_12 48:54

So there's gonna be more age-dated products, expanded lineups, and less extreme allocation pressure. Maybe we'll see a Pappy, you know, 30-year. Who knows, right?

SPEAKER_02 49:06

Oh, that'd be awesome. That'd be cool. Well, you know, they just put out that new Eagle Rare. What is it? The 25 and the whatever. There's like a couple different boxes now.

SPEAKER_01 49:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 49:17

So that weird decanter with the like rings on the top thing.

SPEAKER_12 49:24

Well, that is eagle, that's double eagle rare. Double, double eagle rare. Yeah, those things all you know. We got Randy has Randy has that. So Buffalo Trace may become the dominant premium

Why Scarcity Persists Through 2028

SPEAKER_12 49:40

band brand supplier in America if demand stays strong and their age inventory catches up. I mean, they're gonna move into like they're already there as far as supply and demand, but not as far as supply. They don't quite they didn't quite have the ability to supply, such as Heaven Hill and Jim Beam do. And they still don't. I mean, Jim Beam and Heaven Hill, those those two places are producing massive, massive amounts of whiskey where you know, I really believe there's a little bit more experimental type stuff in everything that goes with Buffalo Trace. You know, you hear the story initially of Booker from Greg Schneider, you know, it's just like they tried that Buffalo Trace and they were, it was horrible. That they've come a long way from that. You know what I mean? They definitely do they're not spinning it out on the porch anymore. All right, so let's let's let's throw it out right now to everybody on Facebook. I am going to let everybody come in on Zoom and let's have let's have an open like round table discussion with everybody out there. All right, so let me quick sounds good.

SPEAKER_02 50:53

Do you want to force a big learner up for this one? What you got an eagle rare within reach of you? Oh what? You got an eagle rare with that within reach of you?

SPEAKER_12 51:04

Yeah, I can do that once once I once I do this. I got eagle rare, I know where it is. Alright, let's see. Oh my god. Why can't I there's what is going on?

SPEAKER_02 51:24

There's uh Eagle Rare 10, there's an Eagle Rare 12, there's an Eagle double Eagle Very Rare, there's an Eagle Rare 25, and there's something above the 25, I'm pretty sure, that they only put out a couple hundred bottles of. I saw it on a thing where they were doing it for an opt-in for something. I know somebody out there has it. I think you know what I'm talking about. I screenshotted them and sent them to people before.

SPEAKER_12 51:57

Get that off. Okay. Why can't I pick this up? There it is. All right, copy invitation. All right, it's for yep, that's it. I'm gonna throw out the invitation. There it goes. It goes out to everybody. So funny, my phone is doing. There it is, everybody. Put it out there. I don't see you should update your I don't see your link on Facebook. I do. Oh yeah, they just came to it.

SPEAKER_02 52:46

I got it. I see it. Yeah, Walker I'll be able to go to eleven, because I only work from what five to three tomorrow, so that works.

SPEAKER_12 53:01

So everybody's got. You got the invitation, so jump on. So we got one person. I'm gonna have to click it. There's locker.

SPEAKER_03 53:20

Nice shirt. Yeah, I was gonna say, I think I've got the right shirt for the occasion. Let's see if I can.

SPEAKER_04 53:25

There we go.

SPEAKER_03 53:29

See, John, I think they can see the description earlier, Matt. I know the one that y'all were talking about earlier was double eagle very rare, but I don't know if you were describing something different just a second ago.

SPEAKER_02 53:39

So there's the there's uh eagle rare 10, there's an eagle rare 12, there's a double eagle very rare, and then there's an Eagle Rare 25 or a 30 or something that comes in a different box. Yep, and it's got a different gooseneck thing on it. It looked really cool. I've only ever seen it in pictures, I've never seen it in person, but I know it's real because I saw it online at like an auction house thing, and it looked pretty dope, and I'm like, that'd be kind of sweet.

SPEAKER_03 54:05

Yeah, I think they've only been making that for maybe a year or something.

SPEAKER_12 54:09

Didn't we drink that Walker at the house with Randy?

SPEAKER_03 54:15

No, I think we did the 20-year. We did double eagle very rare, not the 25. I think. I could be mistaken though. He had that box that lit up. Yeah, that's that's the 20-year, that's the double eagle berry rare. Yes, and then there's a 17, which is the BTAC.

SPEAKER_02 54:32

Yep, there's that one too. Yeah, I totally forgot about that one. It has a it has an eagle in the bottom of the bottle. When you get down to a certain point, it gets to the eagle wings and it'll get down to like the eagle. It's pretty sweet looking. My buddies brought it over from uh Lizardville where we were up at having uh bears.

SPEAKER_12 54:50

Oh, did I do it? Everybody was it in a big box, Matt.

SPEAKER_15 54:55

I'm sorry, was the what that eagle rare described? Was it in a big box?

SPEAKER_02 55:00

That one, the one that I drank was the double eagle very rare that we had out there. I've never had the one that's above that one because dude, that one's probably more than my car.

SPEAKER_03 55:10

That's the 25 year and it's not been out that long either. That's the the other thing. Like, even if I could afford it, it hasn't even been out very long. So let's say that I had an opportunity, it wouldn't have been there until after I was probably moving, honestly.

SPEAKER_15 55:24

Yeah, there was one up here available. There's several. It was like 2900 bucks. I'm like okay, more than my mortgage. Sorry.

SPEAKER_12 55:34

Yeah, anybody, anybody who's listening, jump in. You come through.

SPEAKER_02 55:40

I just the only one who's needed on YouTube. Jeff, you're the only one that's voice has come through on YouTube.

SPEAKER_12 55:46

I don't know what to do. I I could put all I'll put both the stupid. I don't understand why there's a speaker with you talking with a microphone. You're close to close. I I put both microphones up there. Let me see. I believe you. I'm just I'm just reading the comments. Chris's comment to the speaker with you talking with a microphone. You're close to close. I I put both microphones up there. Let me see. I still think it's gonna get you.

SPEAKER_03 56:18

I will speak to that. I don't know if it will come through.

SPEAKER_12 56:21

I I just don't understand why. Oh, I can fix that in two seconds. Watch this. I'm just gonna pull the motherfucker.

SPEAKER_14 56:31

I still do trinket or okay. Oh, there's a walker who's an Ohio special. That's yeah, that's badass. That should have done it.

SPEAKER_03 56:41

Is that just the box walker? Yeah, it's just a box, but this is a bag that goes around the box. It's got a felt bag that goes around the box.

SPEAKER_02 56:49

All right, let's see if that worked. Hold on. And then there's an ashtray in the middle, right?

SPEAKER_15 56:56

Uh, I don't know. Well, Kurt's not getting the link.

unknown 57:01

All right, let's see if that works. Hold on.

SPEAKER_15 57:03

Let me copy and paste and throw it in messenger form.

SPEAKER_02 57:06

How do you guys copy the things off of here? I don't understand how to get it to work in the messages. I have to do it.

SPEAKER_15 57:12

It's easy on an iPhone.

SPEAKER_02 57:14

Let's see. I have an iPad now.

unknown 57:17

See?

SPEAKER_02 57:18

No, is there is there an ashtray in there, Walker? Is it just the lines for the cube?

SPEAKER_03 57:21

I think it's just the lines for the okay.

SPEAKER_02 57:24

It must be the Weller 12 ones that comes with it or the foolproof. It's either the blue or the black. It comes with an ashtray in the middle.

SPEAKER_03 57:31

Okay. Probably the black. This thing's the black ones outside of a box. Something black.

SPEAKER_02 57:42

If I ever see one, I'll let you know. I I've seen one in person. Uh Mike had one in his hands the one year we were at Jabasi.

SPEAKER_03 57:49

So yeah. But I thought that was really cool for any of the folks that are listening that were not able to make a Scotchy Bourbon Boys Christmas party. All I had to do was ask a bartender and say, Are you guys gonna keep that? Or can I have the box? Let me go in. Mike's cool, man. We can have it. Yeah, that was really awesome.

SPEAKER_02 58:08

And he had Goose Island beer this year, so you really can't go wrong. Yeah, for sure. All right. He brought Chicago to you in Ohio, John. Yeah.

SPEAKER_12 58:20

I think I got it to work. I finally got it to work. Yeah, yeah.

unknown 58:26

All right.

SPEAKER_12 58:30

Yep, I got it to work. There you go. So we're on. Do you know what it is? I think my stupid glasses were hooked to my phone. And so you were that's as soon as I took the glasses off, it got it to work.

SPEAKER_03 58:46

Got it. There was we were trumped by the glasses. The audio was trumped.

SPEAKER_12 58:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 58:52

I think those, yeah.

SPEAKER_12 58:54

I they're paired to my phone, so then yeah, it was probably picking up there. All right, so we got the eagle rare. So let's talk about it, you guys. Let's talk about what you guys think. Why has Buffalo Trace been shielded for 100% by this whole, you know, the whole movement of it slowing down, it has not slowed down.

SPEAKER_03 59:25

I think it's a number of things. I think somebody was mentioning some of their diversified products, some of their lower tier products will still carry because if it's someone's daily drinker and it's not a premium brand and they push it really heavily, that person will go and buy a bottle a week or they'll buy a bottle every two weeks, or whatever it is that they buy. And that person's not slowing down unless they just stop drinking. In which case, most of the time, that's not someone who's a 20-something. That's not some someone who's even in some cases like a 30-something year old, it's someone who's over 40, over 50, and they're gonna get their bottle. It might be a different bottle, or they might go half as often, but they're still gonna go get their bottle. That's my opinion, but that that could be a factor anyway.

SPEAKER_12 1:00:13

Well, I get I get stats from Ann, and the one thing that's the allocated whiskey is not slowing down at all. Allocated whiskey is not, but what seeing the the slowdown is Jim Beam and Jack Daniels, and they're everyday drinkers, that's where it's slowing down, and they think it's 100% acre, they think it's 100% based off of the economy.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:47

Yeah, I mean, there's not a lot enough, there's not a lot of money floating around anymore.

SPEAKER_12 1:00:51

So now I gotta be a little more cuesy for the people, but for us, like the people who buy the allocated, we're still buying the allocated, and then but we're being a little bit more choosier, except when it comes to Buffalo Trace. I think really that's what it comes down to. You're not gonna pass up the as John has proved, you're not passing up a Weller, a William Luru Weller. You know what I mean? You're not passing that up, and then if it's available, if Weller's available, you're not passing it up because you've been trying to get it and all of a sudden you can. Those are where you're figuring out to choose what you're gonna buy. But as far as you know, you don't get, I mean, how many of us have gone out and bought revamped our Jim Beam? Now it's nothing bad against Jim Beam, but I did you actually go out and buy a bottle of Jim Beam in the last year?

SPEAKER_05 1:01:51

Uh Booker's Jim.

SPEAKER_12 1:01:53

That's not Jim Beam, that's Booker's. Booker's Knob Creek, though Knob Creek 12, all those special ones,

Roundtable Joins And Eagle Rare Talk

SPEAKER_12 1:02:00

but I'm talking about Jim Beam. Actual Jim Beam.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:04

I did go for the seven year when they came out, but that's been an eight year 10 month statement on there.

SPEAKER_14 1:02:11

Yeah, you know, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:13

But that's a normal Jim Beam, though.

SPEAKER_12 1:02:16

No, yeah, and that's where they're that's where they feel that it really started to like that's what but but you gotta remember when it comes to a distillery, that g Jim Beam and Jack Daniels, 70% of the distillery sales. The 30% is Booker's Knob Creek, Basil Hayden, you know what I mean? Then 70% is that, and when that's slowing up, it affects supply, it affects them, but they still have to make enough so they can do the bookers and whatever. And it's just like I'm uh you know, they didn't lay any workers off, they basically just basically paused for a year to do maintenance there, and that's that's the smart time to do it. It's the same thing, yeah. You know, you know, Heaven Hill's putting a brand new distillery on, and they got to start laying stuff down from that distillery so that so, but at the same time, you know, well, what's what what brands are coming out of that distillery? You know, they've been making all the other brands elsewhere, so that new distillery is gonna be really unique in what they gotta do. Whereas we all know what Buffalo Trace did.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:32

Yeah, but I also think like you said so that way when next time comes, they're still making even more than before, so they're gonna be ready for it to boom again. So they're in a good they're in a good spot.

SPEAKER_03 1:03:46

Yeah, I think Beam can be in a good spot as well because what they're essentially doing is they're modernizing over at Claremont versus if you've got to keep up 24-7 production at Claremont, you can't really modernize the plant the same way that you would in Boston or in one of these other distilleries because you can't afford to stop production or you couldn't for a number of years. Jeff, go get that Eagle 12.

SPEAKER_15 1:04:12

I'll send you a note on the plant.

SPEAKER_12 1:04:14

You gotta we don't have wait, wait, okay, sure. Go get it. Actually, this Eagle Rare here, I bought this during COVID the first year, and it was the first bottle. Uh Eagle Rare sometimes for me is too bourbony. Like it's not there's not, and this was the first bottle that had like sweetness to it, like this caramel sweetness that I remember when I got COVID in 2021. I had this bottle, it was like, and it was really good. We had tasted it at the distillery in in uh September, and then all of a sudden I came down, and I I I remember the first time I had it, it was like I got it. I was feeling bad on a Sunday, it was like a Tuesday, and and all of a sudden, this was this was the poor that told me I had COVID because I it it I couldn't, it was no taste. I'm like, God, you should have rubbed some up your nose. You'll never get it in a veteran date. But right now, it's so good. Confectionery sugar and caramel, and it's almost like a candy. Hey, remember when we were having that candy apple Matt in New Orleans? That's what this that's got like this candy, like it's that sweet.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:00

It's uh it's that little red coating that's on the outside of those apples when they keep it in the sugar stuff. I can't eat anymore because I get sick because it has red dye in it.

SPEAKER_12 1:06:10

But fantastic, let me just say Yeah, you gotta get them to make that clear.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:21

Or I could take two allergy pills before we go out and I know we're gonna get something. If you ever notice I pick through energy drinks and I'm like, red 40? No, no, no. Okay, I can have that and this. I'll get both of these. That's kind of how I have to do stuff. It sucks. I don't ever I get a lot of allergy allergy pills in my pocket. I didn't get the same.

SPEAKER_12 1:06:38

I'm not allergic to red 40, but I haven't had it in a long time. Maybe in the Apple when we had it, but overall, I'm not allowed to drink that. Well, actually, don't let me. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:54

I get itchy and I'll start like itching, and then I turn like red blotchy. It's weird. I don't know. I it's not a good thing. Like it's not a good thing at all.

SPEAKER_12 1:07:02

All right. So what do you think, Kirk? Why do you what do you think? Why is Buffalo Trace immune? Why do they have a shield around them? As if I mean, I don't see any let up. I here in Ohio, we have a lot, and then I'm looking at what's happening in Chicago, and it's not like that's that stuff hits in Chicago, and there's you know, John has to be on his toes, otherwise he'll miss it. And they have a lot.

SPEAKER_13 1:07:33

Well, here's here's my Buffalo Trace stuff. So even the Wellers lineup, the 107 antique is my favorite out of the Wellers lineup, but that kind of got me started on a lot of the weeders kind of thing, and I'm always comparing it to it. But like that CYPB, we're not we're not live anymore, right? No, we are live.

SPEAKER_12 1:07:52

Actually, we're recording audio.

SPEAKER_13 1:07:56

Well, I'm doing it, I'm doing just a trade with a local here. I'm not doing the CYPP because I tried it the other day, but this person I'm trading is giving me an old fitts 11 years CCV, Eagle Rare 12, and then another bottle. But for me, I kind of I have a little bit of problems with Buffalo Trace stuff overall because their marketing is so damn good. They know what they're doing anywhere, you know, in the last year up until maybe the last three, four months, if it wasn't almost everything Buffalo Trace was in an office or behind the rack or whatever. And and that's where I had a real hard time with it, except for the travelers. Travelers came out and I had a a liquor store owner tell me, oh, this is Eagle Rare was 10, you know, years ago. And travelers is to me is just garbage. But for me, good bourbon starts at Eagle Rare 10 year. That's just me. And I use that. I I never pass one of those bottles up because I see one here, one here, there, and I buy them for like 48 bucks kind of thing. But I use those to mix a lot because people come into my bar, my house, and and and it is so much between the ears. Everything's between the ears. It's we're mush. They see the eagle rare thing, and it's like all of a sudden I just made the best freaking old-fashioned or whatever ever. You know, it is it is because it's got that eagle on the bottle. But I'm seeing Buffalo Trace, everything everywhere now. I think a lot of this is slowing down a little bit, and there's gonna have to be there's getting to be a little bit of reset, but I think there's a lot of shit, ton of people, these secondary people and stuff like that, that freaking put themselves in so much fucking debt on credit cards and stuff like that. I mean, these guys are flipping this shit and buying this shit, they're not freaking engineers, they ain't fucking rocket scientists or whatever. There's some dude that got easy credit during the Biden area and they went out and bought all this shit. There's a couple of times where I did it too, but some of the best stuff I've ever drank or put in my mouth did come from Buffalo Trace. Like last week, the 12-year Van Winkle that a buddy opened up when my son graduated. I mean, that was dude, it was emotional for me. You know, it's an experience that I just can't uh you can't really say whatever, but I I think Buffalo Trace will always be in the leadership. I think Sazerac's behind them. I think I'm sure I'm glad fucking Jack Daniels didn't go to Sazerac and stuff like that. But and then I also think a lot of these craft distilleries and stuff. You watch Bruisel, I see tiny, I see other guys going out and they're trying different expressions of different things now because they're interesting, right? It's like Kraft Beer. We had Budweiser, we had Bud Light, all this other stuff, and then people are making Kraft beer, like, holy fuck, this is really good. And then you build your palate on that. So I don't know. I'm more interested now in each area's smaller distilleries, like even the pot still tiny, those kind of things. You might have to work through five or six bottles that aren't that great, but you find that one you've never tasted before. That's it's almost spiritual kind of thing. But I don't know. Buffalo trace will always be there.

SPEAKER_12 1:11:24

I will challenge you on on what you're saying. I want you to do, I want you to to have, I want you to be blinded. And I'm talking about seriously traveling. And I want you to put, I want you to put EH Taylor Small Batch, I want you to put your wellers, and I want you to put, you pick a weller, and I want you to put either Buffalo Trace, just regular Buffalo Trace, and I want traveler put in there, okay? And I think honestly it's it'll surprise you. I mean, it's I'll do it.

SPEAKER_13 1:12:04

Uh I'll do it when I bring out this YouTube channel. That's a great thing, too. I've never ever been in a situation where I really did blind, so I I like what you're saying because it makes sense.

SPEAKER_12 1:12:15

Well, I I got blinded, I got blinded with Weller Special

Marketing Hype And The Real Market

SPEAKER_12 1:12:20

Reserve. I got it was uh Buffalo Trace, and then there was Traveler and E.H. Taylor Small Batch, okay? And I love E.H. Taylor Small Batch. Here's what I thought was gonna happen. I thought it was gonna go E.H. Taylor Small Batch, I thought it was gonna go Buffalo Trace, I thought it was gonna go traveler and then Weller Special Reserve. Okay? The only one that was in the place was Weller Special Reserve, and and it came down to the end where I thought it was E.H. Taylor versus what I tasted, I thought it was E.H. Taylor versus Traveler. And it was it went. And I thought I picked E.H. Taylor and I freaking picked Traveler, and then what I thought was E.H. Taylor was Buffalo Trace. And E.H. Taylor took third, and Weller Special Reserve was four, and that was blind. Holy fuck. But the E.H. Taylor Yeah, you're right.

SPEAKER_13 1:13:23

I've never I've never tired, you're right.

SPEAKER_12 1:13:26

I've never ever did blinds, and that's when Chris Stapleton and Harlan came out with that blend, and everybody knew it was Drew, probably, from the blender at at uh Buffalo Trace who who put that together. Buffalo Trace did that to prove a point to everybody. Everybody's like, why don't you put more out? Why don't you do this? Get this and I used to be able to buy this on the shelf. You need to put, you need to make more, you're you're holding back on purpose and everything. And then they come out with Traveler and they put out as many skews as anybody in the world would want. There was they they they made enough that they had enough, no matter what any agency or liquor store across the country ordered, they supplied it. Okay, and all of us bourbon, allocated bourbon people, all did was get ripped across the living shit across the whole gamma that it was this, it was that, because we all could get it. And basically, Chris Stapleton and Harlan Wheatley sold the ever-living crap out of it, it sold massively. Buffalo Trace was tasting it in their in their whatever, and for the average people buying, they sold more than you they ever thought they would. It was very successful, but you wouldn't think that on social media when you read about it, right? It you just don't think it was successful. We don't think it was successful, and they proved a point. They're like, hey, all you allocated people, guess what? We put something out that you could have enough of, and you really didn't want it, but we're showing you you're only 10% of our market because the Chris Stapleton, the millions of Chris Stapleton fans went out and drank the living crap out of his whiskey, and he doesn't even drink anymore.

SPEAKER_13 1:15:36

And I like him too in the middle of the mouse.

SPEAKER_12 1:15:41

It was great. I mean, that's that's why I really think they they really get what the market is. They've been producing more, and we're all really happy you can get more, but you still can't get as much as you want. Yeah, no, yeah. That's the one that's the model. I love that bottle. I passed on that bottle. You know what I didn't do. I shouldn't have. I've been passing it. I probably need to get it.

SPEAKER_02 1:16:04

I bought it in in Orleans while we were in the Sazerac shop when you were looking for your sunglasses and I was buying stuff. Oh my god, that's it.

SPEAKER_12 1:16:11

But you were you were buying stuff because you're I I wasn't buying stuff because I knew where flying. What did I do? I put one bottle in my suitcase and it made it home. Hey, wait, John.

SPEAKER_13 1:16:23

What the is that a different is that a higher proof traveler now? Yeah, yes.

SPEAKER_15 1:16:28

The one I haven't seen it yet. Okay, this is the foolproof, so it's 121 proof.

SPEAKER_12 1:16:33

When did that when did that come out?

SPEAKER_14 1:16:40

It's months ago. Yeah, like wait, they don't they have four or six months ago.

SPEAKER_01 1:16:45

What?

SPEAKER_14 1:16:46

I need that. I don't have it. Jeff, I don't buy it.

SPEAKER_12 1:16:52

John, you need to start buying more shit for the Cub game.

SPEAKER_15 1:16:57

I'm gonna listen, man. I'm gonna have to just I'm gonna have to start, you're gonna have to give me a line of credit and I'll just go shopping for you.

SPEAKER_14 1:17:04

Yeah, I don't know.

SPEAKER_15 1:17:05

You two license.

SPEAKER_03 1:17:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_14 1:17:11

Hey, protect us. There you go, Walker.

SPEAKER_03 1:17:15

When I come back from the I see you, Walker that's Tiny has because I have the big one from You mean you got this you got this one? Yep, the one that you're probably gonna pick up. Yep. It's large with a flat base. Yes, that one. Which is also a good character, surprisingly.

SPEAKER_16 1:17:37

I came home so when I come back from vacation.

SPEAKER_02 1:17:43

I'm doing uh I'm doing an all six Weller Blind live on uh Friday night, most likely, when I come back. I'll tune in Cleveland though. So I'll be doing them all blind, and they'll have a circle on the bottom of each cup that's the color of the bottle. So when I pick it up, you'll know what it is. I won't know what it is because I'll see white. But everyone that's in that direction will see what it is in the bottom of my cup. I'm hoping. I'm gonna practice with the colors to see if you can see them. I'm hoping that it comes out on camera where you could see what I'm drinking. I don't know what I'm drinking because it all looks white. And then overall, I'll just go one through six and say my favorite, and then I'll have my buddies do it as well.

SPEAKER_13 1:18:21

Yeah, I got a few of those, Walker. I I keep six, seven of those around at all times. I never pass some of them.

SPEAKER_03 1:18:28

So this is personal Super Nash. I don't keep a regular one because I had one and I didn't care for it, so I gave it away.

SPEAKER_12 1:18:35

So I'm about to have the 12 for the first time right here. The oh dude, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:18:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_14 1:18:41

I've never had the 12 of the in Kentucky.

SPEAKER_02 1:18:44

Yeah, if you had the 12 of me in Kentucky at the bar before the night of the festival. Eagle Rare 12? Yep. I bought the rest of it from this thing. Me and Steve split it. All you guys tried it, and then we all tried it together. That's how we got the parking spot where Locker had to drop off all the bottles. Is that the first time since COVID?

SPEAKER_12 1:19:07

No, this is Eagle Rare. No, this is last year.

SPEAKER_13 1:19:10

Oh, okay, okay. Sorry. I thought you were drinking.

SPEAKER_12 1:19:15

And this one was spectacular. And honestly, the 12 is good, but this this bottle right here, because you know, Eagle Rare is uh once again a 10-year-old and it's a batch. And when they batch it, everything just kept getting better from Buffalo Trace as they kept batching and batching. That's another thing that we can talk about as far as what the distillery has done as far as making their whiskey better and better and better as you go.

SPEAKER_02 1:19:45

You do know that I think EcoRare is not batch, right? It's a single barrel that goes through, they don't clean the lines, then they pour the next barrel in and keep going. So you may have a barrel. Most of them are single barrels, except that the one where it has the end run in the lines of the last barrel.

SPEAKER_06 1:20:01

Wow.

SPEAKER_02 1:20:02

You do know that, right? I didn't know. I talked to him about this when we were in the barrel house, and I was asking a whole lot of questions. And he goes, People have asked these before, and I do have the answers. And I'm like, okay, let's do that. And that's how I learned that. So Eagle Rare, it all used to be a single barrel product. And then what they did was instead of cleaning the lines in between each barrel and wasting some, they went barrel, then they went in when it was empty, and then you may have one that's a mix between these two barrels and it goes out the lines, and then you go back to a single barrel again, and then here. But you can't call it a single barrel because it's still in the lines before you put the next barrel up there to be dumped in.

SPEAKER_12 1:20:40

Just so you know, if you've ever been there watching them dump barrels, they're dumping in multiple barrels at the same time. In a massive trough. Yeah, it depends on the ball. It's like the first one goes up and it starts dumping in the next one, and as they keep going down, there's three or four barrels dumping at the same time. So they're not blending, but their purpose, they're just dumping barrels. But there's multiple barrels. I've got videos of that because I've I've been there while they're rolling them up.

SPEAKER_03 1:21:15

I have too. So obviously, some of their product is not done that way. Blame in particular is not done that way because they're like single. Yeah, it's all single barrel. So that's done in a particular in a particular bottling house where they have people sitting there by hand, and then they've got a barrel up at the end of the building, and then once that barrel's done, they switch barrels. But up until that point, it's all delivered through a line and bottled by hand, and then pulled by hand, and you know, sealed by hand. So it's a whole different operation for that. But you're right, I've seen that that same line that you're talking about, and it's a massive operation with troughs.

SPEAKER_13 1:21:57

I wish I could start over at 21 and go to work for a freaking uh distillery.

SPEAKER_02 1:22:03

Me too. I'd be another Stephen Fonse right now.

SPEAKER_13 1:22:06

Yeah, I mean, that's pretty cool. I've never got to go to I haven't been in a brick house yet or any of that stuff as of yet, you know, just except Montana, Montana.

SPEAKER_12 1:22:18

Wait, wait, wait. So when are you so all right? So we have different levels.

SPEAKER_15 1:22:25

Me either, Kirk.

SPEAKER_12 1:22:27

Wait, okay. So you guys have to come. I mean, honestly, you're gonna have to do a bus tour to get you not, you know. We have our bus tour coming, but our bus tour, you're gonna be in Rick Houses, you're gonna be you'll be yeah thieving. I mean, thieving. Are you going on the shit I dream about? I can't make it this time. I'm teaching. All right, no, me either.

SPEAKER_03 1:22:56

Wait a minute, if you're not tiny. What I've been telling on y'all this for months. Damn it.

unknown 1:23:03

That's what I'm saying.

SPEAKER_03 1:23:06

Is Lee doesn't want to know, so well, no, my classes don't. I'll still be teaching.

SPEAKER_15 1:23:12

That's okay. Me too.

SPEAKER_12 1:23:13

You're yeah, you both have one more year, so it'll come. But Kirk, you need to come to Kentucky Bourbon Festival.

SPEAKER_13 1:23:23

You know what? You're right. I do. I've got to go to Germany here next in July, and then we're going to Nashville over Thanksgiving, so I'm gonna try and hit up some of that stuff. And I think I'm gonna meet up with Randy at some point. But I will definitely uh

Traveler Whiskey And Blind Tasting Shock

SPEAKER_13 1:23:41

I'll definitely need to go to that. And uh, I know one of my sons wants to go for sure, so I'll be there.

SPEAKER_12 1:23:47

Randy September. Randy was like, Do you want me on tonight? And I'm like, I'm gonna throw it up out to everybody, and then here we are with everybody on the podcast. I'm gonna be ending it on the audio real soon. It was good to guy have you guys talk about what's happened at I'm glad. John, you didn't give now. Walker gave his opinion. Matt and Kirk, what what's your opinion of Buffalo Trace? In in uh I will say I'm jealous of Chicago right now, and it's not because of the Bears, and it's not because of the Cubs, and none of that stuff, none of that shit. I'm uh you know what? I'm jealous. I've never been jealous of Chicago, honestly, because whatever, but I am right now based off of your it's like Minis has always been there, and they've always had okay allocations, but it hasn't been what it has been for the last like year. This last year, it's like Chicago has become the hub of everything.

SPEAKER_15 1:24:58

So I think with the expansion in the distillery, that's helped. I do think there is a slowdown to a degree. I think a lot of guys are kind of like peeking out a little bit. I also think Buffalo Trace itself, you know, there's I know people that just don't really enjoy weed and whiskey, but I think that they have figured it out to where they have crafted a weeded and whiskey that a majority of drinkers enjoy. You know, if you even if you don't like a weeded whiskey, you can find a decent one from any of their lines at Buffalo Trace. They are a legacy distillery. They're iconic. Kirk, you hit on it with Sazorac, you know, kind of maybe you know, pushing the marketing even even to a higher degree. And I just think watching the availability for when they started, when was the expansion? Like 2024.

SPEAKER_12 1:26:00

Okay, so no, well the expansions, but still realistic. I had Harlan on in 20. I actually, it's funny because the Thursday I had him on in October, I was just starting to like feel really bad from COVID. So it was 2021, and he was talking about the expansion and everything. And after that, I went through two and a half weeks of living hell after right after that. That podcast, it was funny because I came back from the festival and the podcast was just going crazy. I had given out cards and everything, it was just like the best time of it. It just went from like a thousand a month to like six thousand in October and six thousand in November, and it was just like going crazy. And and and um he had just done the podcast, and it was he talked about the expansion, and then we had him on again, and then it finished up in 2025. I mean, the main putting that second still in, even though they have 17 other stills happening, doubling that still, that finished up in 2025.

SPEAKER_15 1:27:21

There you go. So, yeah, and I think I mean that's I I do think that's a big player because as everybody calls it the tater salad, you know, people, you know, I remember when I got into it, like Weller Special Reserve. Well shit, if you could find a bottle for 55 bucks, you were good, you know, and and like that was hard to get. I mean, that was during like I think right at almost at the peak of the boom. And then, you know, you get your ego rare, you get your blends, and of course prices have gone up. But I think you know, uh I the allocated group of bourbon connoisseurs keep some of those around, but they really. Don't you know go and find those as much anymore. Where I know Kirk talked about it, and some of you guys, I if I see an EH Taylor small batch, which I now have like four of them, because I will drink them and share them, and it's now easy to get. That was a real hard one to get, like literally two years ago. Barrel proofs coming around more often. Like, I was like geezed up the first time I got a barrel proof and a CYPB and a Weller 12 in the same friggin' day. Like we pulled that Tater run, like, hey, hop here, hop there. And you know, that was exciting, but I didn't like doing it to be honest with you, because you had to deal with people in lines. But I got what I was hoping to get. And I just think that whole legacy behind Buffalo Trace and wheat whiskey has just turned people onto it for so long. And I think a lot of people are always going to be fans of it. Like, they'll they'll love Heaven Hill, they're gonna love the bean products, they're gonna love Whiskey Thief, all these, even the smaller ones. But like, I just there's there's an aura about Buffalo Trace that you know it's it's beyond me that I think a lot of people just can like identify with that distillery and said, Yeah, I've had some of their regular lineup. And then we start talking about getting applications, you start getting those Kirk Foregren. What the shit? I mean, they just released Jeff. We talked about Cenophone yesterday at the distillery for like 90 bucks or whatever the hell it was. You know, now I I couldn't get this for for forever. The Weller single barrel really never seen that in the wild. It's it's it's it's not that listen, it's good, but it's it doesn't blow you away. But everybody wanted it. Okay, okay.

SPEAKER_12 1:29:41

Wait, wait, wait. You said Weller single barrel. Okay, yeah, there are Weller single barrels that will blow your freaking mind because that's how single barrels work. But like you said, agreed. I mean, you that the you're just missing the topper on Weller because that's why the hell, I mean, 100% why Eagle Rare, I mean, not uh Blanton's, has a topper, is because it's a single barrel, and it's just just like they made a game for when a single barrel wasn't that great, that you would come back for another one. No, and that's how you learn that single barrel, what what single barrels were about, because you were trying to get those toppers to get craft with the the actual buffalo trace, this thing right back here with all this different stages, which which when I first jumped in in 2019 was like people I I they used to not let people look at the toppers. You had a box and a bag, and you got what you got. The one guy pretty much the one guy's like I bought 65 bottles of blands, and I still don't have the thing. I don't have O.

SPEAKER_15 1:30:52

I don't have N. Yeah, but yeah, and then you go, listen, you go then then take something like Bland's, right? Now you start taking a line with Bland's gold, which I absolutely love, but then you put it straight from the barrel in front of me. Oh my god, that's delicious stuff. Like, you know, everybody's like, oh, blends this and that. I'm like, well, to each his own.

SPEAKER_12 1:31:11

Blands is what blends should always have freaking Ben. They shouldn't have put it out at after they put it out, and they should have just dumped those barrels into a bottle, and that's what it is. And that's just an amazing freaking whiskey. So the last thing I'm gonna cover before, and that's great what you said, John. I I really like I said, I respect the shit out of what's happening in Chicago because what's happening in Wisconsin isn't Chicago. Well, they don't get Weller, they don't, they haven't seen a Weller in Wisconsin. Weller is like it's to Wisconsin is like desert is to Arizona. I mean, it's just not, I mean, it's just a wasteland of no Weller or Buffalo Trace products, and that's the way Chicago was until just recently. I mean, Ohio was the first one here in Ohio. We've been so we have been distributing Weller to the rest of the country for the last five years. Yeah, we couldn't get 107 to save our ass here.

SPEAKER_14 1:32:20

Yeah, but we filled the now this in the last is for several months.

SPEAKER_15 1:32:26

It's showing up like weekly, or I'm sorry, I should say bi-monthly, you know, or by week but Weller 107 since I started in 2019, has anytime I run out, it's always there for me.

SPEAKER_12 1:32:39

I which is great, but there it goes disappears a little bit, but it's always there for me, and so so it's nice to see the rest of the country and especially Chicago. Uh I I think all the distilleries and everybody for distribution, I think Chicago has done the right thing. So obviously, you guys are getting. I mean, I'm just never I just think right now the hottest bourbon market for for getting whiskeys is Chicago. So anybody out there, if you want to get a go to go to Chicago. I mean, just just the pappy tasting we did alone at Binny's that day. Thank God. I mean, it was it was available. Uh, and and it wasn't extreme. I think it was like I think he paid a hundred bucks.

SPEAKER_15 1:33:28

It was 50 bucks. It was 50 bucks. Nash would speak to this, but it was 50 bucks, and we got four pours. We got old rip 10, lot B, right? Or did we get three? Maybe it was three, Jeff. Sorry. We got we got old, we got 10, 12, and van and uncle family rye 13, which is actually good in itself if you like rise.

SPEAKER_12 1:33:48

Yeah, I never tasted it. Yeah, that was like that was like special. And then now, ever since we left, I mean, it's just like Randy was there, and you guys were just like hunting like crazy.

SPEAKER_15 1:34:06

Well, Jeff, we listen, remember you and Rick, you and Nash are at the hotel, and I called you. I'm like, hey, I got scoops. There's a store out west, not real far from us. We'll get there in 15 minutes. They just dropped in Weller 12, and we walked in there. There were like a gazillion Weller 12s. Yep, and then Randy almost bought a double eagle, very rare bottle. I think that's what it was. And then he backed off of it.

SPEAKER_12 1:34:31

Yeah, and then he got it in. I mean, it was there. I mean, but but but I think I ended up. I I don't know what I I don't think I

Chicago Finds And Festival Plans

SPEAKER_12 1:34:40

went with the 12. I went with the other because you could get no, you got a 12. Yep. I think 12 is a big one.

SPEAKER_15 1:34:45

We all bought the 12. Yeah, we all bought the 12. I got a picture of you holding it like what the shit.

SPEAKER_12 1:34:53

Yeah, but but but but what's happening, yeah.

SPEAKER_15 1:34:57

So I just think Yeah, it was like 50 bucks, man. It was perfect.

SPEAKER_12 1:35:00

Overall, Buffalo Trace has figured out. Now, you guys, uh Kirk and John, you haven't been to Buffalo Trace. I mean, once you get to Buffalo Trace, I mean, okay, they're they're in places that it takes more than just hop in your car and you're there like us, Matt. They go a little bit further and whatever. But when you guys go to Buffalo Trace, that that turns it into another level. One, now you can't. I can see that, that's fair. No, well, I can't wait, John, till you till to next year. Because next year, 27, bro. It's the you're gonna be coming down and we're gonna do this thing right. We're gonna do as many distilleries and everything we can. But I'm telling you, when you go to Buffalo Trace, it it they it you know, you were talking, Kirk, about marketing. When it comes to their gift shop, there's beam is good, but beam is when you go to the beams gift shop, it's this little section like this. Okay, it's like this. Buffalo Trace's gift shop is like five times more than Beams. Like it's like so much shit. It's like every single thing you it's like the hoodies, t-shirts, bar mats, bar mats of all their brands, glancing of all their brands, patches of all their brands, stickers of all their brands. I mean a wall of anything.

SPEAKER_13 1:36:48

It's like maybe I'm a little bit hainted because they freaking uh reached out to me on LinkedIn to freaking put my resume in for marketing for Sazerac in my area here, and they passed over me. I was so fucking pissed.

SPEAKER_15 1:37:03

Tough market, bro. It is oh man.

SPEAKER_02 1:37:06

I mean, if you have those for Ohio, that should be pretty simple.

SPEAKER_13 1:37:09

Yeah, I can gotta do that. I could see what you're saying though, Tiny. You're probably right. Once that gets in the head, that that's that's salesmanship. You're putting people in the ether there and probably never turned back. I mean, look at Brusels.

SPEAKER_12 1:37:23

Plus, it's this distillery that that's been flooded, like when it flooded, they you have you you take the tour, and they they basically did an archaeological dig of of Taylor's original cookers and fermenters, and they actually are fermenting, which I couldn't ask Harlan about at all. I couldn't. They're make gonna make a batch of corn that they they they basically grew that that they matched what Taylor was growing back then, and they basically showed you the fermentation of it, and it's coming out soon. And it's just like some of the shit they're gonna release, I don't know how you get it. It's like you have to like you have to like sell your soul to the devil or something because or you know, like I never had old fire copper copper, oh, and so last year at Bourbon on the P.

SPEAKER_15 1:38:28

Oh, that's the one Rainey was getting by. Sorry, it wasn't a double eagle verb. Okay, sorry about that.

SPEAKER_12 1:38:34

So, so we're sitting at we're we go to and we're hanging out with Amsey Winning, and we're hanging out with one of the main people who is involved with bourbon in the Frankfurt area and with him, and he buys us all Roxy, me. You weren't were you there, Walker, last year? You weren't, right?

SPEAKER_03 1:39:02

I was with you and Chris and Roxy two years ago, I think. Over on the bank.

SPEAKER_12 1:39:08

This year, this this past year, it was it was six of us, okay? And it's 300 bucks a poor. It was it was four of us and two of them, Amzi and the guy, plus Roxy, myself, CT, and Super Nash. And he buys us all OFC at 300 bucks a poor, and we do a task. I mean, it was like I I never thought I would ever taste that. And I tasted it, it was the 2025 all old Iron Copper, and and he's got it, and they open it up, and he does six six pours. Randy and Roxy gets one, and he she tastes it, and and she lets Randy taste it. I mean, we let everybody taste it because I mean, honestly, at 300 bucks a pour, it doesn't, it it doesn't there's there's nothing that holds up at that level. It's not that much better than the $4 a poor Jim Bean. I mean, there's it's not $296 better than Jim Bean.

SPEAKER_15 1:40:33

I mean, it's just not maybe a $25 pour would be more than that.

SPEAKER_12 1:40:36

I mean, but but I'm saying what happens is there's this level of of exclusivity that you get to dip, you know, what whatever. But in reality, after tasting all these bourbons and everything, they're all within $40 of each other.

SPEAKER_13 1:40:55

I agree, Tom. 100%. I think they should all be zero to ten or a hundred bucks, but but I get it what they're doing too. There's so much angel share and they gotta pay for all the taxes.

SPEAKER_12 1:41:06

I mean, you you yeah, I mean, they find a shipwreck, right? From the early 1900s, yeah, and then they pull some shit out of it, and they find the champagne from the shipwreck. How much does the rum, yeah? Right. How much is that gonna cost you to taste something from the early 1900s that was on a shipwreck? I mean, it not only did they have to make it, it had to sink to the bottom of the ocean, sit there for a hundred years, and then they had to basically find it, pull it back up, and serve it to you. I mean, I want to.

SPEAKER_15 1:41:45

Yeah, so now you're paying you're paying for the juice about it, yeah, Kurt. But now you're paying for the story that's behind it, which is like nostalgic, it's historic. And it's river, and now all the time. There's only a certain thing. So they they they capitalize on that.

SPEAKER_12 1:41:58

You pay for the ability to taste something that nobody else is tasting. That is part of it. That's but I love it, Walker. Like you know me. What am I into? I want it all, right? I want exclusivity, I want packaging, I want I that's why I love Booker's. I mean, Booker's is good, and there's there, it's not that different from each batch, but there's some really good batches, and there's some other batches, but overall, it's exactly what I'm in bourbon for. I want it all. I just love it. I think marketing is just as important as the bourbon.

SPEAKER_13 1:42:39

You you gotta have it all. It's a good thing I don't live 10 miles from you, tiny. Holy shit.

SPEAKER_15 1:42:45

So so can we clarify for the listeners? When you say you want it all, it's you just want a complete package when it comes to the whiskey, the bourbon. Not every single well, maybe you do want every single bourbon and whiskey, but you don't have room for it.

SPEAKER_02 1:42:58

This is a good thing to say when the word stuff. You want all the stuff. I want all these.

SPEAKER_12 1:43:04

See that right there? All over the place. I'm telling them. You see that? I'm sitting there at the distillery, and and the guy after doing the tour and knowing all the stuff that went down with this, there's no distiller. They're they're they're in flux right now. They gotta get it somebody who's willing to sacrifice a lot of things to do this. And but this bottle is like, well, how much is that? Well, it's $300. You're just like, I'm like, looked at Roxy. I'm like, can I do it? And she's like, why are we here?

SPEAKER_15 1:43:42

Yes, right off the bat.

SPEAKER_13 1:43:44

Yeah, I looked here for one sec, uh, and then we'll bring it around about it. There's a gal out there named uh Candace or Roxy, you know they're gonna be amazing.

SPEAKER_12 1:43:55

I love him anyway. Bring back my wife. My wife's name is Rachel, and when I met her, her best friend used to call her Roxy. So her nickname's always been Roxy with her best friend. Love it. And so when we started the podcast, she we are all getting names, you know. She's like, you know what mine is, and I'm like, absolutely. So it's she's found Roxy line of where, you know, like t-shirts and you know, a whole line of fashion wear. So that's awesome. It's worked, and everybody there's a lot of people who only know her as Roxy.

SPEAKER_15 1:44:34

That's great.

SPEAKER_13 1:44:35

I love this unfiltered, uncut, tiny. I mean, that it's just nobody else is doing it. I just love it, buddy. I really do. I hope it resonates with more and more people because you can edit the shit out of anything and add all kinds of other crap into it, and you're not really getting the story across. It's all about the freaking eye candy, but it's genuine. Real bourbon and whiskey people are resonating with some of what you're doing. I mean, yeah, it's it's it's the love of the bourbon, it's the love of the whiskey, not the editing and the eye candy. So there's a lot of touche, touche, touche.

SPEAKER_15 1:45:15

Can I comment, Jeff? Uh, and I Kirk, I think Core is talking. He's he I'm just scrolling through. He had some really good comments. He was talking about all the wheat used in BT's weeded products come from North Dakota, which I believe he's from. Is that correct? Yeah, he is. He's from Jamestown. All right, Core, I didn't want to diss you, man. I we we were looking at it, but we get carried away in our conversations. But yeah, he's he's a big rye fan too. And I don't know if any of you guys that have hit up the Elijah Craig PGA one, which is 108-proof. Uh, apparently that's a banger for 50 bucks, which a lot of people say.

SPEAKER_12 1:45:50

What? But again, how I think Elijah Craig I'm buying. What what Elijah Craig PGA?

SPEAKER_15 1:45:58

Yeah, do it every year. Uh Jeff, you gotta come to Chicago for that one too.

SPEAKER_12 1:46:02

But anyway, I'm about to go broke because I'm gonna go to the liquor store because I've been avoiding it lately in 2020 2026. I've been avoiding the liquor store, and I'm gonna go broke because did you know there's old fit seven just sitting everywhere here?

SPEAKER_06 1:46:21

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_12 1:46:21

Oh my god, some in the bags and some not in the bags, they're all over the place. I have my choice. I'm like, and it's $49.99. I'm like, who's not doing that?

SPEAKER_02 1:46:36

I just want to say I had a buddy bring that bottle over this weekend. I think it was last weekend. Fantastic. We don't have it yet, but from what I heard, we'll have it in the next three weeks. So did you get one?

SPEAKER_12 1:46:49

Yeah, you know yet.

SPEAKER_15 1:46:52

John, you know I'm showing you this, right? Yeah, so Jeff, I apologize, guys. Jeff, what do you I gave Jeff that? So, what do you think about that, buddy?

SPEAKER_12 1:46:59

Yeah, I like it. And you said if I drink it, you got me. Which one is it, John?

SPEAKER_15 1:47:05

That's the Eagle 12. I gave him a single Eagle 12. They all stopped

Paying For Exclusivity And Big Stories

SPEAKER_15 1:47:10

in here. Well, not all of them, but it was Jeff Martin and Rainey. They came in here at the end of July and August. We went to a Cubs game, we hung out, went at the Cobalt Distillery in Chicago, and uh we just started sharing and smoking cigars and telling stories. It was so fun. We're doing it soon, man.

SPEAKER_13 1:47:29

Some way I've got to get your address, but I ain't showing up tomorrow. But you know, there's some of the good people I meet, you just get on the Christmas card list.

SPEAKER_12 1:47:37

Uh well, as far as my address goes, it's it's right there on all social media. I'm I'm not okay. I mean you look at you look at my Facebook or you look at my whatever. I I don't not put my address because I have tastings and stuff like that. But I am gonna do we're coming up to the Crystal Glencairen Club soon. Randy's coming up. I'm gonna get Randy up some weekend. So people are gonna be here in Ohio. I mean, how where do you so where do you travel? What's your travel schedule, Kirk? I mean, you need to get to Ohio.

SPEAKER_13 1:48:21

Yeah, that's so that's I've used up so much vacation time and stuff like that. So I we've got to go to Germany. You actually have a job like me. That's how I hunt for all this stuff. I'm I'm an outdoors, I'm a business of business salesman for steel. So I sell schedule. Wait, wait, I drive around, I just go jump wheel, corporate planes.

SPEAKER_12 1:48:49

So you do know that I'm uh that I'm in a recycling.

SPEAKER_15 1:48:53

Wait, yeah. Are you talking about steel steel or like chainsaw steel?

SPEAKER_13 1:48:57

No, steel, steel. So mostly it no, it is tiny, it's a steel siding and steel roofing. There you go. Metal roofing. American-made paint, all that kind of stuff, American-made smelted steel. So I have six states. That's where I hunt up all this stuff. So and then I'm a salesman, so it's all about Ohio yet. Because we can't hit Ohio because the steel is made in Pennsylvania and the route. He's too far away. So the shipping on it, the shipping on it will freaking knock us out. But next year, my son is coming back, Walker. He I think he's gonna get into California there. He's gonna be back in November. So we don't have to travel to Europe that much anymore.

SPEAKER_15 1:49:41

And so I will Oh, Greg's checking in.

SPEAKER_13 1:49:45

I will uh I will jump in with whoever I can when I can.

SPEAKER_15 1:49:49

Checking in. I'm gonna see if he wants to jump on. Greg, jump up.

SPEAKER_02 1:49:55

For for Greg? Yeah. All right.

SPEAKER_12 1:50:00

So, welcome guys, just so you know. Hey guys, we're gonna Walker We're gonna end it on the audio because I have to.

SPEAKER_14 1:50:12

Okay, time lay your theme song.

SPEAKER_12 1:50:15

Who just who just Walker just went out? Alright, hold on.

SPEAKER_02 1:50:19

I'm not gonna wrap the podcast up. Walker isn't able to make it to Kentucky this year. So that means there's a bus seat open next to me unless Coza gets it. So if one of you guys jumps on the bus tour, you'll be sitting next to me to share. When is Kentucky?

SPEAKER_13 1:50:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:50:40

It's the week of the week of the festival. So Jeff, do you know today? It's the Wednesday of the Kentucky Burbank Festival. If you look up that day, it's September 9th.

SPEAKER_12 1:50:53

The bus tour September 9th.

SPEAKER_13 1:50:56

Oh, that's perfect timing, too. Oh God, you can't. Yeah, I've got to go to freaking uh Tennessee in November.

SPEAKER_02 1:51:05

So, if you fly into Ohio, you could jump with us in the morning. You can meet Grand Bonds at Revival where you stop in Echo or we stop in Columbus. How are you, sir?

SPEAKER_12 1:51:18

Explain it bad, boy. That is that is that is that's an awesome, comfortable position.

SPEAKER_15 1:51:27

Yeah. Listen, don't mess with a redneck when he's laying down, man. The point is.

SPEAKER_02 1:51:35

I just want to stand on the crack real quick. I see you guys every week, but I don't see Greg all the time.

SPEAKER_14 1:51:38

He's hotelin', man.

SPEAKER_09 1:51:40

Yeah. In Columbia, Tennessee, drinking a little bourbon out of my my paper Hampton Ann coffee cups. Hey, it's good.

SPEAKER_15 1:51:48

No, you're getting all kind of bleach tones in there, man, and notes and shit, man.

SPEAKER_02 1:51:55

How are you, Greg? I'm seeing here in Breverback.

SPEAKER_15 1:52:01

Yeah, Matt's trying to talk, but he doesn't have a microphone that's loud enough. Okay.

SPEAKER_13 1:52:12

Hey, Greg, I don't know you. This is Montana here, but you're gorgeous, buddy.

SPEAKER_12 1:52:20

Hey, hey, hey, Kirk, have you ever had chicken cock whiskey?

SPEAKER_13 1:52:25

Yeah. That's what I actually love chicken cock. Greg? So yeah. Greg is the man who made the chicken cock.

SPEAKER_12 1:52:33

Needs to be the older version.

SPEAKER_13 1:52:35

Uh podcaster listened to it in the truck on my on my job with Greg on it and the chicken cock stuff. So honestly, what I've got probably 20 or 30 bottles of chicken cock stuff. For sure.

SPEAKER_02 1:52:50

But my favorite is the cotton. Just that. You have one that Greg's sign, though? Because that's that's when it's like the impressive one.

SPEAKER_15 1:52:57

No, we're not all as lucky as you, Lizen. Come on, man.

SPEAKER_03 1:53:00

I wasn't thinking gonna go there, but since they proved anyway, I'm gonna show a signature.

SPEAKER_12 1:53:05

Oh, there it is. That's a good one. Anyways, Greg now works for four branches and a new place called Metal. Metal. American metal.

SPEAKER_10 1:53:19

American salty, yeah. Metal like heavy metal. No, it's so it's interesting company. I mean, these guys are great. I I just connected with them here. Actually, I started talking to them several months ago, but they're based in in Connecticut. And the owners, they made their money through custom motorcycle, custom cars. And they came out with a brand. They want to get in the whiskey kind of for that niche of market. And it's called American Metal Whiskey. And it's interesting. I I believe me, we we just scratched the surface this week. I I'm down, we we they make their whiskey in Tennessee, Tennessee Distilling Company in Columbia, Tennessee Distilling Group, excuse me. And I've been down here this week helping them. They hired me to kind of let's establish, because they're they're about a year old maybe, but establish, you know, not only a high quality product, but a consistent high quality product, one that's sustainable, you know, batch in, batch out, skew in, skew out, or whatever. They have a unique process. You know, there is no substitute for time and temperature changes in a 53-gallon barrel. Hell no, that's no. That's maturation. But that process is all about molecular activity, okay? In the summertime, day and night, the heat of the day, cooler of the night, heat of the summer, cooler of the winter. What happens is the whiskey, you know, the molecules in that barrel are in the heat of the summer, heat of the day, they're flying around, they're popping everywhere. And that activity, molecular activity, expands the airspace within that barrel. And that pushes the whiskey deep into the wood. Yeah. And and and that's where it's it's reaching all those extractable flavors and esters and everything you want, the flavor of whiskey. Then at the cooler the night, the cooler the winter, the m molecules slow down and it contracts, and so it pulls them back out. So it's all about molecular activity. Well, and there's no substitute for time and temperature changes in a 53-gallon barrel. Now, what these guys have come upon, and there's a lot of people doing it different ways, but it's all about molecular activity through ultrasonic waves, ultrasonic activity. And so uh motorcycles, custom cars. So what they've done is they have taken whiskey, they put it in a barrel, and they put up a waterproof, you know, intelligently safe amplifier down inside the barrel, a new barrel. So they're actually double oaking. Number one, they're double-oking. But what they do is is they hit that whiskey through that amplifier with Harley Davidson, rumbling of Harley Davidson and rumbling of their cut bars. It's off the base, baby. And so it creates these ultrasonic sound waves. And what that does, that ultrasonic sound waves creates microscopic bubbles and collapses them and recreates them and collapses them. And so that activity creates cavitation. Well, cavitation is another form of pressure. So what that pressure does, it pushes it into that new barrel, into the wood, and extracts it. So it it's not a lot of people say it's accelerated maturation. Again, Jeff knows me. I don't believe in accelerator maturation, but it enhances the maturation. I think it's that barrel six months with that sound going on the whole time, and that cavitation, that pressure, pushing it in the wood and back out of the wood, it picks up so much more color, so much more flavor. It takes a four-year-old and turns it into a six-year-old within six months.

SPEAKER_15 1:57:19

Greg, is that good for you to like is that is that that what you just described? Is that something new for you, even in your not new for me?

SPEAKER_10 1:57:27

I've never done it personally. I've seen people do it. Well, Metallica, right? Metallica.

SPEAKER_12 1:57:34

I mean, they they basically play Metallica music to the barrels doing the same thing that the Harley Davidson rumblings doing, right?

SPEAKER_10 1:57:42

No, make it difference. Here's the difference. Metallica did it. I don't know if they're still around. Copper and Kings did it. What they're doing is they're playing music in the barrel warehouse. It's not actually down touching the whiskey. It's not inside the barrel, it's outside the barrel. That's wild. So it's a big difference of the ultrasonic waves that actually hit the whiskey. Wait, wait. OC Tyler did something similar, but they took drain whiskey, dissolute, and and did that. And they were coming out, you know, selling six-month-old whiskey, said, Oh, yeah, it tastes like four-year-old bullshit. It tastes like nine nine-month-old.

SPEAKER_03 1:58:21

So, Tyler, what he's describing to you, and he mentioned it earlier, but you may have missed it, is that they actually put their device inside the barrel as

Ultrasonic Barrels And American Metal Whiskey

SPEAKER_03 1:58:30

opposed to metallic, which looks about the bigger. So they put with a sealed, hermetically sealed or otherwise sealed.

SPEAKER_12 1:58:35

Is it Harley Davidson? Is Harley Davidson directly related to this?

SPEAKER_15 1:58:41

No, no, it's the uh using their acoustics from their pipes, right? Yeah.

SPEAKER_10 1:58:45

So they may who knows. I mean, you never know where it's gonna go. They may have excuse, you know, here's a Harley, one that was age and the hands with Harley sound, here's one with the Yamaha, here's one with a no, that's not no, no, no, no, that's that's not happening. No, no.

SPEAKER_12 1:59:02

But they want to sell the ones with Harley and not sell the ones with Japanese, like, no, no, it's just gonna be Harley. I'm gonna question Greg.

SPEAKER_15 1:59:14

I gotta question Greg.

SPEAKER_13 1:59:15

Why is nobody talking about why is nobody in my neck of the woods? So the two largest fireworks pyrotechnics things are right here within 20 miles of me. We're dry. We're dry here in Montana where I'm out in the banana belt, but our temperature swings can be freaking 90 degrees from the day and the night. It's in the world's in the world's fair, the the best bread on the planet was sweet bread that won the world's fair in Chicago back in the days. So I'm just kind of curious, is anybody to talk about because it's real temperature ones?

SPEAKER_10 1:59:55

It's also temperatures, but but in Montana, I mean, you've got what nine months of cool winter months and three months of hot months, or no?

SPEAKER_13 2:00:05

No, no, no, no. So we're about it, it so I'm in the banana belt, so it it can vary from season to season. There's times where we get two or three feet of snow, and there's times where we get no snow kind of thing, but literally the variation in temperature swings sometimes 90 degrees in a day, sometimes it's 40 or 50, but most of the time it's 60 to 70 degrees per day. I could only imagine that where the the trade-off would be would be because it's so dry where I'm at. And in and the angel share would be freaking incredible. Yeah, incredible because we don't have any that my humidity sometimes is at 9%.

SPEAKER_10 2:00:47

Well, again, that's right, you know, 90, 95% of a bourbon is made in Kentucky for a reason. Okay, and one of those reasons is the temperature swings. We got six months of hot temperatures that go over 100 degrees Fahrenheit. We got six months of cold temperatures that go below zero in the winter time, and so it's such dramatic swings. You know, every state's, I mean, if if you take the same bourbon, same batch, and you aged it in Montana or in Texas, I guarantee you the product coming out of the barrel is gonna be so dramatic.

SPEAKER_12 2:01:16

I will tell you that that Steve Nally set you guys, set you guys so far back. I mean, he went out to Colorado and he basically distilled there. And he was he he probably bought into what you said, Kirk, because he thought that those temperature swings and everything that would happen, and it aged so slowly that he was out of there, everything went out onto the market, and he headed back towards the bar. He went into Bardstone Bourbon Company. But I will tell you that over the years, the whiskey that he distilled went a lot of different places and was really good.

SPEAKER_13 2:02:06

But stuff it's going 10 years so quickly in 24 hours that probably inside of the barrel is always 50 and 60 degrees. Right, right, right.

SPEAKER_12 2:02:16

It's gotta be long periods of like, you know, where you're like those really hot summers and it's a whatever, and then all of a sudden you get the cold winters. So yeah, he he did buy into it, I think, but he he he was like out pretty quick.

SPEAKER_13 2:02:34

Greg, did you do this one?

SPEAKER_10 2:02:37

Actually, that's the uh the cotton club, yeah. Yeah, so I had I and I've been very vocal and and straightforward, but I had nothing to do with that one. That was the brainchild of the founder of Barrel Spirits. So Motty wanted to do Māori Until it was a founder's name.

SPEAKER_13 2:02:56

If it was yours, I was gonna honor you by opening it right now.

SPEAKER_10 2:03:00

So well, you can you can open it, you know, drink it if you like it. But it's so different. It's but it's 20-year-old Canadian rye whiskey.

SPEAKER_13 2:03:10

Okay, and it's above uh, in my mind, it's shit. Freaking chicken cock, uh they fell off in the last year or two. In my mind, I don't know. I don't know where they're getting from the case. Wait, wait a second.

SPEAKER_12 2:03:22

Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, Greg, Greg is got was out and in the last year or two. And this is the this is the whole thing of what we try and tell everybody. Just because it's a brand and you own and people are, but when you basically take somebody with talent and he builds the brand up and he sells it in market, like like for instance, when he was talking Greg was just talking about the metal brand, okay, this this brand that he's talking about, he was talking about it with the passion that he talked about chicken cock for how many years? Six, six years. I would guess the last three years is garbage, seven and a half years. No, but even even the even the cotton club, although although he wasn't directly involved, he was directly involved with the marketing, and he was able to tell you about what was good about something, but he also would get parts the the owner would buy stuff and he would basically do things to it to make it to be decent whiskey plus.

SPEAKER_10 2:04:34

I didn't know that one, that one particularly here's my point, Jeff. So I had nothing to do with that, you know. It was a great, I think it was a great idea, great marketing project. He wanted to pay homage to the brand back during the 1920s, during prohibition, when when uh you know you couldn't buy whiskey. But chicken cock was the house brand at the cotton club in Harlem, New York. And what they they brought, what they used was Canadian rye whiskey they would choir up in Canada and and bootleg it to the cotton club. And so that's where he came up with this. Well, this 20-year-old whiskey, quite honestly, I didn't like it. It it had a bubblegum sweet tart flavor to it. And I mean, some people liked it. Most people that spent $600 for a bottle didn't care for it. But again, it's everybody's got their own palate. Yeah. So, you know, I couldn't say a hell hell of a lot of it at the time. But chicken cock was here.

SPEAKER_13 2:05:42

This is maybe four or five years ago when Whistle Pig was here in the last four or five years, and whistle pig, I don't know, it's some of their barrel picks from the bossing with the boys or whatever, is here. This doesn't taste like freaking chicken cock shit to me anymore. I don't know what the fuck is that.

SPEAKER_12 2:06:02

Because Greg's not involved with now the cotton club is one thing. He was the guy. I mean, he was they they sold him as the master distiller. He was, he did distill it. This now, the stuff that is just chicken cock, the bourbon, I would highly suggest to get that because that's his stuff going on. Oh, no, but he has nothing to do with the blend. Not even.

SPEAKER_10 2:06:29

Let me explain. Let me explain, Jeff. So if I'm a we started making whiskey when I joined force with him in 2017 at Barsen Bourbon Company. All along, you know, the founder would buy bourbon, but typically he would let me taste it first to make sure it was of a quality to put under the label until the bourbon we were laying down became of proper maturation. And a couple times he bought some whiskey without letting me do that. And it was shit. And it pissed me off, and I told him, You gotta stop it. You're you're gonna kill the reputation that we're trying to build. And so he did that. Well, when we come along, and then he comes out and I found this great, this great Canadian, you know, 20-year-old rye, and I want to come out and pay homage. Great marketing concept, but the whiskey better, you know, support the marketing concept. And to me, it was shit whiskey. I mean, it it was it was was a black velvet, black velvet Canadian whiskey is what it is. 70-year-old, yeah. Okay. And and I I think, you know, I think, you know, you're making a big mistake. You want to charge $500, $600 a bottle. And marketing guys, one of one of my best friends who was equity owner in the business and and ran the marketing size, you know, he butt he butted heads with it and kept telling him, Marty, I said, you're charging too much for this bottle of whiskey. It's not worth it. And he said, Oh, you know, you're you're you're too negative. So they parted ways. And anyhow, long story short, it just well, Greg, I get it.

SPEAKER_13 2:08:07

I get it. I see where you're going with this. I want to make sure that I follow you and what you're doing in the world for sure.

SPEAKER_10 2:08:12

Well, yes, if you're Montana, Kirk, is that right? Montana. Yeah. Yep. What part?

SPEAKER_13 2:08:17

Columbus, between Billings and Big Timber, the kickoff off the Yellowstone and the Beartooth Pass.

SPEAKER_10 2:08:22

That's where. Okay, well, I tell you what, Jeff, you send him my my contact information, if you don't mind. Uh, I want to bring my girlfriend up here. She loves to, I want to find a dude ranch up in that way, close to Yellowstone, and I can take her horseback riding and go to Yellowstone. Beartooth.

SPEAKER_12 2:08:38

Did you say Beartooth Pass? Yep. That's on the north. That's on the right. That's on the north entrance of that's on the northern entrance to you to Yellowstone.

SPEAKER_13 2:08:49

Yeah, I'm literally, I'm I'm an hour and a half from uh Cody, Wyoming. Beartooth pass. I'm two hours from Cook City. Uh the park is 40. I got you, Greg. I've got a place for you to stay. Randy's coming out here first part of or end of June. Randy Ford. And then we're going to Germany to and then Austria and Prague for the summer. But you guys get out here like I told these other guys, open the invitation, bring it, bring it.

SPEAKER_15 2:09:18

We'll all we'll all get the fuck out there.

SPEAKER_10 2:09:21

Let's make contact. Because again, I my girlfriend's birthday is July 9th. I'd love to take her out there. Hey, I turned 70 in July as well, but uh I want to I want to take her out there, do some horseback riding. I know there's a lot of uh dude ranches out there we can probably connect with, but man, I appreciate that so much.

SPEAKER_13 2:09:37

Well, Greg, Greg, you're you're one more one more thing here, then, Greg. So we get back from Germany July 14th. August is probably the best time to come. Either way. I would love to talk to you because I just LLC'd and started a new business, and I'm I'm on the city and the county planning boards and stuff, and I'm actually open up a whole distillery, not a distillery, but a guild annual thing in my in my area here. But Chico hot springs, frickin' going into Yellowstone. If you want to get out here next spring, I'll show you grizzly bears all day long.

SPEAKER_10 2:10:17

Well, I don't want to see grizzly bears. I I hunt turkeys. I have turkeys, never hunting anybody's. But yeah, no, uh uh August, August would be great as well. Just anything that works, Girl, you send me what your schedule looks like, and Jeff connect us, and and man, that would be awesome.

SPEAKER_13 2:10:34

Why don't you just get out here to buildings too? You don't have to rent a vehicle. I've got vehicles all over here. Um and then even if I'm working or whatever, you and your bride go play because I've played all over it. And then if it works good on a weekend, we'll take you down our lazy rafting thing down the Yellowstone and all that stuff. So, yes.

SPEAKER_10 2:10:53

Yeah, my my favorite uh well, I I I've hunted turkey all over the U.S. and Mexico, and one of my favorite hunts, it was actually in Broughtas, Montana. Oh, yeah. I shot my first first Miriam turkey there in Broughtonas, Montana. But it was awesome.

SPEAKER_12 2:11:09

What has to happen is you need to shoot something, kill it, do it, and then do you need to bring it back to Al and we all gotta meet at a Moray? As Al cooks it for us.

SPEAKER_10 2:11:25

He does fish too, man. He does fish too, so we can catch it.

SPEAKER_13 2:11:29

There you go. Greg, I love it, man. Standing invitation for you, pal. Standing in for sure.

SPEAKER_12 2:11:37

I mean, honestly, Greg, you said your 70th birthday is coming up. Your chest hair doesn't look older than 65.

SPEAKER_15 2:11:45

I was gonna give 55, Jeff, you bastard.

SPEAKER_11 2:11:53

Don't pan down anymore, Greg. You got you gotta go.

SPEAKER_05 2:11:57

Keep going, keep going.

SPEAKER_03 2:12:00

I'm gonna say Cheers at Cordell because he's been super patient with us all usage.

SPEAKER_00 2:12:04

Cheers Cordell, welcome. I'm just trying to turn it out there. No worries. My French is finally settled

Montana Aging Debates And Chicken Cock

SPEAKER_00 2:12:10

down, and it was like Royal Rumble of the Bulldogs going down.

SPEAKER_01 2:12:17

Oh wow.

SPEAKER_10 2:12:19

Well, hey, it shout out to Mad Lions. Man, I appreciate you, brother. And uh I will get to to Cleveland one of these days with my sweetheart, and we're we're gonna we're gonna have a big party time in Cleveland with you.

SPEAKER_12 2:12:30

Well, you know, I can't wait. Greg, I mean, you know that I'm close to Cleveland, so include us.

SPEAKER_13 2:12:40

If you guys want to have some fun, I just rented the uh Civic Center here in Columbus, Montana, August 7th to 8th of 2027 for our first. It'll be distillery, brews, and barbecue. And I would love to have you guys out here.

SPEAKER_10 2:12:58

And I might be helping help finance it. A good fall meeting for the Scotchy Bourbon boys.

SPEAKER_12 2:13:04

Yeah, August of 2027 sounds good to me. I'll get you on stage. Wait, you're talking August of 27? Yeah, 7th of March. Yeah, you're talking about you'll be retired, John, and you're you're just full in it.

SPEAKER_13 2:13:19

I'm working on some good guys out here too. We'll probably have a concert out here. I don't know what it looks like 100% yet. Fireworks out here.

SPEAKER_12 2:13:29

Metallica barrel raised. Metallica? Then you could have then what what god the the you could have traveler? There you go. Just bring them all, all whiskey people.

SPEAKER_13 2:13:46

You can get a little on there, like that'd be killing. And you know what? You guys could probably just stay at my house here. Oh, because I got a big house on historic registry. It's hard.

SPEAKER_12 2:14:02

There's a lot of us. Oh, but but Kirk, where you're getting in, it's not the people, it's the whiskey we will bring. That's okay.

SPEAKER_13 2:14:11

That's the part that's gonna destroy me. I'm used to having 20 to 30 college kids on the weekends here from my kids coming from out of Montana State. They don't right next to a church, so it makes it really interesting. Well, that's bullshit.

SPEAKER_15 2:14:26

No, because they don't bat too long. That's like 40 to 90 columns.

SPEAKER_12 2:14:30

They don't let me tell you, they don't bring in Mary Dowling, dowling from 1943 for you to drink.

SPEAKER_13 2:14:39

That's true. They drink my beer and they sneak some of my shit. I had to tell Randy, I'm like, give me five minutes. I gotta find another freaking four-grain EH Taylor because one of the kids opened it.

SPEAKER_03 2:14:53

So I was asking the question: did you have any of the the 43 Dallas left?

SPEAKER_11 2:15:01

It's actually 46. It was bottled in 38 and barreled, barreled in 38, bottled in 46, unless he had a different one.

SPEAKER_12 2:15:10

No, it was the same. But no, no more.

SPEAKER_10 2:15:15

I gave Seth the last four. So, Randy and Tiny and all you guys, next time you're in Kentucky, if you want to go see the foundation of the original Dowling Distillery, I man told you this before. I can take you there. It actually sits on Wild Turkey Distillery's property. I used to hunt that property.

SPEAKER_12 2:15:36

So we're gonna turkey. So are we gonna see Jimmy too when we go? I guarantee you, if I reached out to Jimmy, he'll be there.

SPEAKER_15 2:15:45

Yeah, let's man.

SPEAKER_11 2:15:48

Let's I'm gonna be up there. I'm gonna be out there in about two or three weeks on the bottom.

SPEAKER_12 2:15:54

Yeah, but that's he's not talking two or three weeks. He's talking about the all of us. And we're all gonna be there the week before the festival. And let's do it. That might be a good time. Yeah.

SPEAKER_11 2:16:08

Well, I heard him say Randy or YouTube or whoever. So I'm gonna be there in two or three weeks because I gotta pick some bottles up. I'll also be there the week before the festival.

SPEAKER_10 2:16:18

Let's put it this way before. I won't ask wild turkey or comparing for permission. We'll just do it and then ask for gift for the gift as if they can actually present that.

SPEAKER_12 2:16:27

No, we'll do it. And then you just tell Jimmy you're there. Tell let Jimmy know the day before you're gonna be there, and then we'll just meet up with him.

SPEAKER_10 2:16:37

Jimmy No, Jimmy won't be able to walk down that old path. No, no, no, no. We no no no.

SPEAKER_12 2:16:42

We won't take him down there. We'll just meet him at the at the place, right?

SPEAKER_10 2:16:48

If we meet, we'll meet him at distillery or wherever. But Jimmy, Jimmy will be there, I promise you. He just he he loves you guys, Jeff, as you know, and and uh he's such a dear friend and always will be. But but yeah, I'm telling you, I can I can show you where the Dowling distillery is, the Cedar Brook distillery. You you know the oldest bottle in the uh the vintage library at the Barstown Bourbon Company? And then we said it was in the eighth country, it's from Cedar Brook. Remember that? Yeah, you've seen it. And I can show you about my grandfather.

SPEAKER_12 2:17:25

I'll try and get us then that night to do a tasting at the old Rippy house.

SPEAKER_11 2:17:31

Yeah, the old house. Yeah. Yeah. So, Greg, do I bring my shotgun or what? Yeah. There it is. He's driving. I'm driving, boys. It'd be it would be dark. It won't be.

SPEAKER_13 2:17:47

Yeah.

SPEAKER_11 2:17:49

I'm going to Florida tomorrow morning. I went over, we had a Scotch tasting, and then I went over and we had a bourbon tasting. So I've had two of those, and I'm driving home carefully. I'll be in Florida next Wednesday. I will, I'm actually leaving tomorrow morning and coming back Friday because my son's going to be here Friday night late. So it's a horrible wind trip. I'm going down, packing up a bunch of stuff, and heading back. My wife tried to do our packaging turned her two grand for three. She said, no, I'm going down, we're going to do it for two grand.

SPEAKER_02 2:18:30

I'll give you my hundred address and you can drop me samples there so I can get there. I have a drink.

SPEAKER_11 2:18:36

Well, you're going to be in you're going to be in Florida or Tennessee. I'll be in Orlando next Wednesday. I'll just have to shift you something, brother, so I get there.

SPEAKER_13 2:18:48

I don't want to be all jealous, but it'll be at my place at the end of June.

SPEAKER_10 2:18:53

All right. My battery just went on low mode, so I'm going to have to jump off. But Jeff, give Kurt my my contact info, if you don't mind, buddy.

SPEAKER_12 2:19:02

I will for sure. And I got to end this um on the audio anyways. So I'm going to do I'm going to end that for everybody. And sex next week.

SPEAKER_16 2:19:12

Good night, Greg.

SPEAKER_12 2:19:13

Good night, Greg. Cordell. Good night. What's up? Cordell, stay on for a stay on for a couple minutes now. I'm going to end the audio podcast. And then we're going to thanks everybody for coming on tonight tonight. www.scotchyburbonboys.com. Make sure that you follow us on Facebook, Instagram, YouTube, X, and then follow us also on Apple, iHeart, and Spotify. Cleveland on the Rock. And then Matt, thank you for coming in tonight, Cleveland on the Rocks. And uh with everybody, we'll just we'll we'll head out right now, but everybody who's on right now, stay after because we'll it's kind of an after party, and it's you know, it's early. And uh so remember good bourbon equals good times with good friends. Make sure that you drink responsibly, don't drink and drive. You know, Matt, you probably know this enough. So next time you're on, I'm gonna have you do the ending.

SPEAKER_02 2:20:18

I'm just gonna add stuff to it a lot.

SPEAKER_12 2:20:19

Yeah, you can drink and drive and stuff. Yeah, don't drink and drive, drink responsibly and stuff. And remember your life uncut and don't have it.

SPEAKER_13 2:20:34

Oh filtered unfiltered, and if you want to listen to something that's real, you can thank us later.

SPEAKER_12 2:20:42

Yeah, there you go. Oh right, and it I will take us out.