America 250 Barrel-Strength Bourbon with Dark Arts Whiskey House Macaulay Minton

A barrel can be magic, or it can be ruined before it ever touches whiskey. We sit down with Macaulay Mitten (Dark Arts Whiskey House, aka The Bourbon Swami) to get painfully specific about what separates a memorable finish from a disaster: producer selection, barrel handling, shipping heat, and the kind of quality control most drinkers never see.

We also crack open the America 250 release: an almost 11.5-year blend bottled at a hefty 128.28 proof. We talk about why blending at cask strength leaves nowhere to hide, how custom char and toast profiles can lift the flavors you want without dragging in bitterness, and what “bold” can taste like when it’s built with intention. Expect notes and frameworks you can use the next time you’re evaluating barrel proof bourbon, sherry cask finishing, or why proofing can change a brand’s consistency.

Then the conversation expands into what’s next at the Whiskey House: patio upgrades, cigars and pairing strategy, a caviar and whiskey event, and the launch of Noble Arts for botanical spirits. Macaulay teases a navy strength gin designed for big oils and louche, absinthe experiments that could lead to absinthe-finished rye, and more one-off drops headed toward Kentucky Bourbon Festival, including a 19-year Mizunara-aged bourbon and other serious “eat lunch first” pours.

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We catch up with Macaulay Mitten and talk through how Dark Arts turns sourced barrels into distinctive, high-impact blends with real control over finishing and flavor. We taste and break down the America 250 release, then zoom out into barrel quality, honey finishes, and the next wave of botanical spirits coming from Noble Arts.  
• America 250 limited five-barrel run details, presale hiccups, Tuesday online allocation  
• What Oloroso sherry finishing adds, why producer and sweetness level matter  
• Barrel sourcing realities, shipping heat, spoilage risks, rejecting bad casks  
• Blending at cask strength vs proofing down, consistency and complexity trade-offs  
• Custom toast and char profiles per barrel to preserve and elevate core notes  
• Tasting notes and why high proof does not have to drink hot  
• Rye and Scotch palate talk, peat as a palate wrecker, mezcal appreciation  
• Whiskey House updates, patio build-out, cigar plans and pairing strategy  
• Caviar and whiskey event tease and what makes a pairing work  
• Noble Arts roadmap, botanical library, navy strength gin, absinthe experiments, vodka base  
• Honey barrel finish process, waiting list demand, filtration choices and haze  
• Sweet and sour mash blend concept and trademark approach  
• Old whiskey sourcing, 19-year Mizunara tease, avoiding tannic over-oaked barrels  
• Philosophy on intent and energy in blending, why “bad whiskey” is often just preference  
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voice over Whiskey Thief

If You Have Gohsts

Transcript

Sponsor And Quick Opening

SPEAKER_00 0:01

Middlewest Spirits was founded in 2008, focusing on elevating the distinct flavors of the Ohio River Valley. Their spirits honor their roots and reflect their originality as makers, their integrity as producers, and their passion for crafting spirits from grain to glass. Their Michelin reserve line reflects their story from the start to the bottle to your glass, with unique wheated it and rye bourbons, and also rye and wheat whiskies. The Michelin brand is easy to sip. It might be a grain to glass experience, but I like to think of it as uncut and unfiltered from their family to yours. Alright, we're not gonna oh well I'll just do this. Here we go. That's usually the finishing song, except for the fact when I was trying to start the start the Kenny Fuller's theme song, I hit the wrong button and it just disappeared. So that's what we went with. So welcome to the podcast, Macaulay Mitten from the Bourbon Swami, the Alchemist. What are you going by these days, Macaulay? Anything or everything?

SPEAKER_02 2:57

Um to the whiskey empress, Avery.

SPEAKER_00 3:01

Is Avery there? Hi. Let's say hi. Oh, well, what one of the cool things is the last time I last time we were met in person, which was fantastic at the at New Orleans Bourbon Festival, I really want to thank you for including me in your wedding and you guys being so welcoming. It was it was fantastic. I mean, that that was the

Welcome And Bourbon Festival Stories

SPEAKER_00 3:27

most the most interesting trip I've ever taken in my life. I went and packed and got ready for going to a bourbon festival, and and it went the bourbon festival was fantastic. New Orleans Bourbon Festival this year. I can't, I'm looking forward to next year because they'll they really kind of got their feet under themselves this, but all of a sudden, I was at a I was going to a wedding, and it was not any kind of wedding I've been to. It was an it was amazing, and it's uh it was really kind of cool, everything that happened and how it happened. And you know, there was frog, there was as we had Greg Keeley on last night, and he was talking about the small raccoon penises, and then we're talking about and then there was and and then there were swords, and there was so much that that went down, but it was one of the most the funnest times I've had, and it was one I mean, honestly, it just it it was a highlight of this year, and I'm sure you guys now did you guys go on your honeymoon yet?

SPEAKER_02 4:34

We have not been able to go off on a honeymoon yet. That will happen sometime in the near future, hopefully. Well, got back and basically just hit the ground running with the whiskey business. You know, it's gearing up to kind of die down in the winter, so we'll probably try to get somewhere nice and warm for a little bit.

SPEAKER_00 4:53

Yeah, I absolutely uh yeah, and it's not always fun to go warm places in the summer because it seems to be excessively warm.

SPEAKER_02 5:04

Uh yeah, I enjoy leaving when it is gray and icy and snowy outside. Like yeah, it's always key west is the greatest in January, February.

SPEAKER_00 5:14

Uh yeah, that's for sure. That is for sure. All right, so tonight, one of the reasons why we're doing this is you've got a special bottle that you've just released, correct? That's correct. And go ahead.

SPEAKER_02 5:34

Uh we just dropped that on at the whiskey house and did the pre-sales online, and we are actually be coming out with a little bit more allocation online on Tuesday, the 22nd. I know there's a lot of people that didn't get, weren't able to get any. We just changed over the way that we're running our web store and change providers, so it kind of caught at not the most ideal time to do a pre-sale and you know, trying to get something out before the fourth of July, but it is what it is.

SPEAKER_00 6:09

Oh and uh I I it's uh it's amazing. And you did get it out before the 4th

America 250 Release And Presale

SPEAKER_00 6:15

of July, and then what's even cool, cooler, is we're doing a podcast before the 4th of July. I would say you were like, Well, yeah, I'll come on. And I'm like, well, everything's booked, but let's just do a Wednesday podcast. And you you're just you were you were like, how about this Wednesday? So here we are, and I I don't always do three podcasts in a row, but I'm happy because having Greg on from Lar Larrican last night, who was a part of your wedding, which was when we talked about how I just he gave me how that went down in the phone call and everything. And so, and and he he had a blast. And then now tonight we have you and fantastic. And then tomorrow night we have Turner Wathen that's gonna be on. So uh, and I'm uh have you ever met Turner?

SPEAKER_02 7:04

I'm not.

SPEAKER_00 7:05

Uh you would you would enjoy him? He's a very you he's unique, but you know, he he does a lot of rum stuff. His thing is rolling fork, and he does what he likes to do is age rum in bourbon casks. The first time I ever met him was at the bourbon on the banks, and we were walking around, and he basically had a table, uh was a board set up on two chairs, and he had no tent. He was just over by the the levee, you know, by the rocks behind him, and he was just burning in the sun. And when we want, you know, just but that's that's the kind of thing that people who are passionate about what they do, and we got to we got to know him. So, all right, so we got so let's talk about first with dark arts the your space right now and how people can when they get there and what the experience is. I I'm gonna be down, I I will be down there, and you were talking about doing a podcast before the the bourbon festival. Definitely, we can do that. And like I said, maybe uh we can get down there and do it right from from your distillery or you know the the tasting room, right? Tasting blending.

SPEAKER_02 8:21

Yeah, I can promise that you're gonna want to try these bottles before they uh hit the fields out there at KVF, that's for sure, really. Especially if you uh remember last year's Bourbon Festival and that long ass line that we had from Thursday to Sunday.

SPEAKER_00 8:42

I think you poured the last

Whiskey House Experience And Festival Lines

SPEAKER_00 8:45

of the buff turkey down my throat. That was it. It was it. That was the last. You're just like so. I was able to finally get through the lines. I mean, yeah, we did a lot of stuff. And one of the cool things about Kentucky Bourbon Festival last year is usually I'm out on Sunday because I got to get back to work on Monday. And so, but last year Roxy was flying out to Columbus and she had a noon flight out of Columbus. So we stayed through the close and everything. And honestly, I'm gonna stay every year from now on because at the end of the festival, that was you know, everybody's breaking down, but there's still kind of a whole group of people, just like it's all the distillers kind of talking about, and and there was a vibe to it, you know what I mean? At the end, there was no doubt. And I know the end of Bourbon on the Banks last year was crazy too. I I couldn't even get to your tent at Bourbon on the Banks. I mean, it was just solid.

SPEAKER_02 9:45

We we just had the executive board of for Bourbon on the Banks into the whiskey house today, and they picked out two single barrels for that festival. So to get those.

SPEAKER_00 9:56

Oh, so are you so they picked out the two single? So that's for that's the the bottle for the festival this year?

SPEAKER_02 10:02

You you're they're just so they picked an eight and a half year old bourbon finishing with or lauroso sherry, and then a seven and a half year old finishing or with toasted Mizanara.

SPEAKER_00 10:14

So thanks. So do you when it comes to Orla Rosso, do you do you prefer Orla Rosso sherry over like a sh the regular sherry finished, you know, kind of thing? Do you think it matters? Or is it more of a name?

SPEAKER_02 10:31

It definitely matters because when you're getting into sherry, I mean there's different styles. There's I gravitate towards more of a producer that does has more like sweetness in their sherries instead of like a more dry sherry. Because I'm looking for a little bit more of that texture, a little bit of sweetness. The Orlarosa that we've used brings out a lot of, you know, like fig, dried fruit, hazelnut, maybe a little bit of chocolate. I

Oloroso Sherry Finishing And Barrel Quality

SPEAKER_02 11:00

mean, that's what we use almost exclusively use in the sherry Garcia. And we do have some other sherries that we've used for single bear revels, but I for the sherry Garcia specifically, I really enjoy the Orlaroso sherry in that 6036 mash quill. It's it's beautiful.

SPEAKER_00 11:18

So, okay, and I've I do love the flavors on an Orlaroso finish, and I've had a couple different, and I've never been, what would you say? Uh those those rich, like you said, those flavors are so what would you say? They're almost fall-like, you know, there's an aspect to them with those, you know, all the different spices. It's like a spicy, and it I I love it. So, you know, and now but now I've had sherry finished, and you know, you pick up some of those notes in there, but it doesn't, it seems like with the Or Loroso, it's a little bit more front-forward, right? You pick it up a little more, or is that just too how long somebody's aging it in the barrel?

SPEAKER_02 12:04

I think it probably just depends on how long someone's aging it in the barrel, if they're using a first fill or a second fill. I mean, these are all factors that go into you know getting the finishing process through the finish line. But one thing that we do is we make sure that we work with some of the best producers in their industries, whether it's wine or spirits. I mean, we have all these relationships throughout Europe and California. So when we're buying these wine barrels, spirits barrels, we know where it's coming from. We know what level of quality that we're getting, we know that who we know who made it, where it came from, and and that's something that not everyone can see on. I mean, you can get you online right now and Google Barrel Broker, and I'm sure you could find a couple websites and buy your red pork barrel offline right now, but it's how those barrels are handled. I mean, you think it's just popping a bomb placing an order, but there's there's a lot of factors that can go wrong. And if that barrel hasn't been properly handled, it can turn instantly. I mean, I've been at another facility that got a trailer of barrels in and the wine spoiled, and I mean like smell the dog piss, the vomit, the vinegar notes in it, and that's after someone spent, you know, hundreds, if not a thousand dollars on a barrel. And I was also because you have to think like when if you're buying something from Spain, it's gonna travel in a shipping container over the Atlantic Ocean for several months, and it's not like there does a refrigerated shipping container, so those two just bake in the open sun.

SPEAKER_00 14:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 14:06

So we try to time it out so it's not just hitting that mark on there. So even when we can get stuff, I can't I'm always going through and doing quality control on it. And I mean, there's been a few times we rejected some barrels and it turned into firewood, but generally speaking, we're getting good things that we're always using.

SPEAKER_00 14:30

Yeah, I was at a Wisconsin distillery and they got shipped to them six Armagnac barrels. They were there, yeah, and they were talking about it was over a grand for the barrels, and of the six, two of them were were bad. And I'm like, what do you do? There's like not much to do. It's just part of it. Well, you know, it's not like they give you refunds. And I'm just like, really?

SPEAKER_02 14:54

It's just well, especially I mean, Armaniac barrels are tricky because it's I mean wine, for example, a winemaker might use a barrel one to four times, depending on how style of wine that they're making, the blending techniques. Armoniac barrels, I mean, that barrel might be older than you and me. They just keep repairing it, they'll recooper it. So there's no they they keep those until they're about falling apart most of the time. That's one of the I our Armagnac's one of the harder ones to get, or at least high-quality Armagnac barrels.

SPEAKER_00 15:38

Yeah, that's what they were just saying. They were able, and they were and and then they were happy to have four, and I'm just like, okay. It's just they they said that it would just work, they'd work it out somehow. That's that's what they and they hadn't filled them at all. You you know, you got they let us smell the four that and it that's that was unique in itself, you know, and they are definitely now. Do you find do some of the barrels finishings the larger barrels, right? A lot of them are are the the higher, what is it more gallon? They're a bigger barrel, right? For some of the wines finishes?

SPEAKER_02 16:15

A lot of the stuff that we work with is it's 53, 59, and 71 gallons. But I mean, I have some cognac casks that are ginormous, a couple hundred gallons. Yeah, I've seen them. Because a lot of times they'll mingle those barrels together over the years.

SPEAKER_00 16:38

Yeah, and so so and and one of the things that no, you know, knowing you is one thing that that that is special is that each individual thing that's happening in your blending, your warehouse, your your you know, take everything going around you, you have you have a knowledge of it. You know, like you said, you don't just say where it's French oak. You say where the fresh, you know, the and you know the different. So that's not common knowledge in in the whiskey, the whiskey industry for most people. You know, most people is are happy with French oak finished. Or or they don't know enough to even know that there's three different, right? It's three different forests in France, right? That the that the wood can come from, correct? Or is it more than that?

SPEAKER_02 17:35

There's more than that. I mean, just those specific forests that you hear about, like the hoopiel of the one that we use, those are what that it's called, like an AOC, so it's like the government certification on it, or like like Kentucky Proud products, for example, or like you know, champagnes from the champagne region. So they're geographically recognized. Some French oak, I mean, you can just pick random stuff off the side of the road, but it's also not going to be that quality, right?

SPEAKER_00 18:07

Right. And that's one thing that you're always looking for. So anybody who is new to dark arts and is listening to this, it's like quality is something that that Macaulay is searching out all the time. So talk a little bit about this particular. You got it out, this this blend. It's it's an 11-year, correct?

SPEAKER_02 18:31

Yes, almost 11 and a half years old.

SPEAKER_00 18:34

I'm gonna pour it. Yeah. There we go.

SPEAKER_02 18:48

Yeah, so kind of, I mean, kind of put this one together last minute, honestly. I mean, we talked about doing a 250 release, and then kind of, you know, life goes on, and then walked into the whiskey house one day, and I was like, yeah. I was like, today's the day I'm gonna make, I'm gonna pick the barrels for the America 250 project. And I went in there and I found some like the boldest expressions in our 10-year-old category or 10 plus, and decided that that's what I want to pursue. I wanted to make a really rich flavored whiskey, lots of oak, one of those that says back your country brother three, four, five, and six times while you're eating one of those all American hot dogs beef. You know what I'm saying, Tiny?

SPEAKER_00 19:42

Yeah. I mean, you got, I mean, I don't care what your political affiliate affiliation is. This is America, and you're you're the American story. You can no matter what, you you're doing you're doing it. It's like living the dream. You just go out there and you do it. And that's that's what that's why America's great. And I think that when you're talking about what you're saying, that the boldness or whatever, I mean, this

Building The America 250 Blend

SPEAKER_00 20:09

is 128.6, did I just see? 128.28. Right, 128.28. And I mean, you're talking that's a barrel strength of epic proportions. It sits there at high up there with you know, like like what what a booker's would be or whatever. It's not I'm not saying that's anything like it, but you've got a nice it it should be 100% barrel-proof because that's that's just everything that whiskey can be. I mean, the sometimes I I don't know how you feel about proofing, but proofing, in you know, in my opinion, a lot of times is harder to do because you got to get it down to where you where it where it's tasting good. But at the same time, when you're blending barrels and putting barrels together, it's what what when you do a barrel proof like this, what you get is what's gonna go in the bottle, right?

SPEAKER_02 21:12

Yeah, honestly, I mean you interview people all the time, so you probably get 10 different answers for the same question, but blending something at cash drink, there is no option to cut it down and add water to it to kind of homogenize the mixture. Sometimes it can like tone down different off-flavor notes, like maybe it's ethanol-y, sometimes it can be overly tannic in water helps, sometimes it hurts. So I honestly think that putting together cash strength blends is a little bit more complicated because we were before we got on the show earlier, we were talking about brand consistency. And when you when you were having that conversation with me earlier, I didn't state it, but when you think of when you're looking at brands across the board and you you think about brand consistency. Consistency. What is one of the what is one of the most like probably one of the top factors that you see across the board with those products? And those products are going to be proof down.

SPEAKER_00 22:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 22:11

I mean, they include like and that's just part of it. So like if you're taking something from 125 proof, you're making your selections for it, then all of a sudden you're adding enough water to get it down to 80 or 90, that's one of your anchors and consistency in the flavor of it. Because that because you can you know hide things depending on what the barrels are or and move forward on it. One thing that I did do different with this blend was usually we'll make a blend and then we'll fill up a bunch of finishing barrels. And what I did for this was I actually when I selected these five, I went through and I ordered custom posting and car profiles for each of the five. There were there's two groups. There was one that was there's three that were the same and two that were different, and that was because of the flavors that I was getting off the original barrel. And I still wanted to keep those notes in there, but just elevated a little bit more with that. So we went with really high char and then also some charred some toasted notes in these. So that's where you're getting a lot of those nuance from it on the nose and the palate. Because this doesn't drink like your standard sixty thirty-six, in my opinion.

SPEAKER_00 23:30

No, the sweetness. It's like uh there's like a candy apple flavor in there, and then there's some like some like currants, but it's super sweet. It drinks and like you said, great the hug is is amazing. It just goes down. It's more it's more of the war, instead of being by too close to the fire outside, it's more like being the radiating heat of a wood-burning stove in at winter time. That's what it does to the your insides. But as far as I mean, there's a you can taste a little bit of char on you pick up some of that char on the finish, but there's no bitter aspect of it all. I'm you know, you're not picking up, let's just say, any oak tannins that sometimes are a little bitter. There's not like a the tobacco-ish, the the finish still stays true to the sweetness. So it's fantastic.

SPEAKER_02 24:47

I mean, I'm I was monitoring this very closely, so basically was take testing these and pulling samples of it every week at that point. Because some of we've we've added it, of course, before it got bottled, but there were the three that had like the medium toast profile in the barrel. I had decided to pull those and fat that and let the just the hardcore char ride through on the other two. And it was a it was a great decision on how they all came together in the end.

SPEAKER_00 25:19

It's almost like when you you put you take an you take an apple and you cut out the insides and you put like cinnamon and brown sugar, and then you you cook it and bake it all into one, it's got that kind of a flavor to it to me.

SPEAKER_02 25:37

I mean, and then I get on this, I get a lot of those like dark roasted notes in it. I think like espresso or some kind of coffee notes, maybe mocha y. And I get definitely some large oak vibes in there, but there's also that sweetness to it, like almost like a buttered toffee to like dark chocolate. So this is very I I get those dark through and through on this. And I think it sings very nicely. And I mean, I didn't put this together just because of the proof. I did select some higher proof ones and some bold, but I am not a proof for, even though I just was telling you about all the hazmat whiskey that I'm working in right now. But it just seems to seems to be what cards are dealing with from the universe. Because I mean, we I don't buy on proof. Never have, never will. But I have been searching for higher proof things that I actually enjoy. And finally we are getting into some stuff across the board on it.

SPEAKER_00 26:40

Yeah, well, I'm yeah, for me too. Uh I'm not a I I like I I I'm not gonna sit here and say I don't like high proof. I mean, I got into this bookers bookers is what got me into it, and it that's it's not like that's low proof. I would I like the uncut, unfiltered aspect. I like that. I love I do like higher proofs, but I also enjoy some of the lower proofs. Like I I dislike it when somebody just writes something off because it's a lower proof. It's like you they I just think you know, those the people who are proof whores or proof hounds or whatever they're doing, they're basically they've burned their taste buds off, and the only thing they can taste anymore is high proof. And you know, when they sit there and say, well, that just tastes like water. Well, no, there's some really good whiskeys and bourbons that are on the lower that that can be on the lowerproof side. I and I'm not saying some are great, but I always have respect for something that's lowerproof, also. I mean, and so it really just comes down to what is the best proof that that whiskey should be put out at. And I I think as a blender, you've always, you know, you put out everything at all different. It's it's like I I really feel like you are so into your surroundings and the world around you and just how you did this, you basically get into a room and start working and then let everything fall into place, right? That's kind of how it works.

SPEAKER_02 28:20

Chaos theory and application, Tiny, yes.

SPEAKER_00 28:25

But but as far as like what you've been doing, although that's the chaos, you seem to have mastered it and put it into some damn good tasting whiskies consistently. I mean, I just I haven't had, well, I have to admit, what what was the entry on the the last well, how long was that Ambirana in that that that one that you entered into the uh the at the New Orleans Bourbon Festival? The one that was how long was that in the barrel, the really Amburaned one?

SPEAKER_02 28:58

Was that the maple Ambrana or the regul just the regular? I mean, as honestly, I mean it's gonna be the same answer for either one. All of our Ambranas done to taste. There is no magic number on when it's ready. Like we're constantly pulling samples and tasting them and getting them into the progression and kind of the wheelhouse of what we want. Because umbrana is one that can it can go too far too fast. Well, it's um, and once it happens, you also can't blend it out. Like there's there's a dryness that can happen for my experiences with Umbrana that I'm turned off to. And then there's also some different wood chemicals that are flavors that can come across that are just not appealing whatsoever. Like I've tried some ombro whiskies that someone's aged and umbrella cast for a year over a year plus, and it tasted it had like a waxy taste to it, and I like waxy soapy, which sounds like whiskey note that you wouldn't believe in until you have it in your mouth and in your hands, and you're like, oh, okay. Some of these tasting notes and these like descriptors, you're like, this is bullshit, and then you you taste it, and you're like, Wow, well, after 10 years, I've discovered what band-aids and uh rock and copper and or you know wax tastes like.

SPEAKER_00 30:24

Yeah, I mean that that's from time to time, if it's bad whiskey, and I've tasted a few, I I've tasted a few bad whiskies. I I mean, I the one thing that I love is I can say honestly, is I've always loved bourbon. And I I I have that is like when it's one of your favorite alcohols, it's really most everything I taste that's done, that's been done properly, you don't get a lot of the times, you don't get it tasting bad to you. Now I found out recently through I went up to Stolen Wolf and I was with Eric Wolf's wife, and she was tasting us through the rise, and you know, you know me on rise because you kind of made me. And at first I just couldn't, I couldn't handle rise. And but there's a flavor in rye I don't like, and she figured it out. I don't, I like high proof rye's. Like if it's barrel strength rye, if it's um, you know, I'm I'm in, I I like it, but it's she's like, because she we tasted like 14 different ryes, and there was a couple I just didn't like, and she's she pointed out, you don't like low proof rye. And that's kind of like and then I realized it's just if it's low proof, it pulls out some flavors that I just pull out that are unappealing to me and appealing to others. Now, I will ask you, you're doing American singer single malts. What is your with your palate, how does it handle peat on scotches and that type of stuff? Does it is it overpowering to you, or have do you like enjoy it? Or what what you know, how is it to you?

SPEAKER_02 32:06

I I really enjoy scotch and mezcals.

SPEAKER_00 32:09

I mean one unique individual.

SPEAKER_02 32:13

I was soup was really not into it, and then I went to Mexico, ate a bunch of LSD on the beach, and drank a bunch of mezcal, and then all of a sudden I had a new fond appreciation for the smoke.

SPEAKER_00 32:30

Okay, yeah, that's just like with Amberana and CT. He mixed it with, I think it was he he poured an Amborana bourbon

Rye Proof Preferences And Peat Debate

SPEAKER_00 32:40

into honeycombs, or no, cinnamon toast crunch, and it wrecked Ambarana for him for the rest of his life. He can't taste, you know. So, yes, experiences can can help you when it comes to that. But, you know, I you have such a unique palate because a lot of I've I've talked to a lot of people who can taste really well, and when when they but Pete really messes it up for them. Like it just so do you find that if you're gonna be drinking a peted scotch that you want to stick to it because that's that's the night, or doesn't it even matter?

SPEAKER_02 33:18

Oh, you're gonna rank your palate after that.

SPEAKER_00 33:20

Okay. So yeah.

SPEAKER_02 33:24

One thing, I mean, one of my favorite applications of an ultra-peted scotch is do you eat raw oysters at all?

SPEAKER_00 33:31

I've had yes, I have. I've been to New Orleans. Yeah. It's not like I go for it, but yeah, I've had it.

SPEAKER_02 33:40

I so I was with my French barrel broker at dinner one time, and he ordered we have beautiful fucking like Zillian course dinner, but we had oysters, and he ordered the Freud or Logable, and I can't remember, it was the highest peak content they had at the bar. And what he would do with it is he would pour just a little bit on the oyster and coat it and then put the minier on there. What that did was it gave it a nice smoky flavor, and I was like, oh my god, this is game changing.

SPEAKER_00 34:11

So, so instead of thinking it's a raw oyster, you just now think it's cooked because you pick up the peat. It's it's a peanut flavor to me. Yeah, there you go. Yeah, I could see that application. I I guess there's an application for everything, right? I all I know is we had an art bag, and the aard bag was that that I that we picked up was was voted the best scotch in the world. Okay. And that's why I bought it because I read about it and everything. And I swear to God, it tasted to me like gun oil. I tried to, I tried to have like, you know, try it, keep trying along. After about a year, we gave the bottle away. Initially, we had a guy on the podcast that loved scotch and he loved rice. And he got that bottle and he drank the whole thing, but that just sat on the shelf and it went down about that much. As soon as he got it, it was gone. So it's it's acquired taste in that type of thing.

SPEAKER_02 35:15

Oh, and I'm also I'm not going for an ultra peated scotch right this time of year, either. Like, I feel like that's a cold weather drinker for me, at least. Each their own. I'm sure Scots wouldn't agree with that. Right.

SPEAKER_00 35:32

Did you with the World Cup here? Did you see that in in Boston? They basically drank, they said, eight times more last night, this the past weekend, this the Scotland was when they were playing, they they were out and they drank eight times more Sam Adams in Boston on the night of the of the thing and ran out. And then they had to special order it in because everybody's coming from Scotland and drinking Sam Adams, which which just blows your mind.

SPEAKER_02 36:07

Like Yeah, I hear there's a Hidden Valley ranch shortage about to happen too.

SPEAKER_00 36:12

It's amazing what how much how much the rest of the world is enjoying what we do here. And it's really kind of cool to see and the excitement. I'm not a huge soccer fan. I mean, I could sit there. I I think uh the 85-inch television has made soccer a little bit cooler because you know, when you used to watch it on the little TV, you'd see little guys running around on this big giant field. So I was just at lunch today, and I think Portugal was playing, and I'm just watching it. I'm like, well, that's actually a little bit more interesting than it for me than it used to be on an 80 on a bigger TV at the at the at lunch. So, anyways, but now this. So you said that you're gonna release more online coming up on the 22nd.

SPEAKER_02 37:02

There should be some select bottles going on our website.

SPEAKER_00 37:06

Okay, and then because I got a guy in Wisconsin that was just like, I really want one of those. I'm like, there you go. So now I've given now you've given them away to get get there and get on and get on the website. So, all right, so then what else? I wanted to go for okay, so your place now. I I was uh there early on. Have you made any changes since you've been there as far as remodeling, or have you made it, you know, or is it still pretty much the same?

SPEAKER_02 37:40

So one addition that we're just finished up this summer was we added a patio space outside. So uh we exported a bunch of different custom furniture, have the sunshade sales out, um, did some landscaping out front just to make it more inviting. We are going to be getting into the cigar game a little bit. So pending my license approval, I will have a humidor and the offering cigars. So I've got Kimmy met Kimmy Douglas before.

SPEAKER_00 38:11

Yeah, she came. I think she was up at the barrel, right? She was up. Did she come to the barrel pick when we were in Ohio?

SPEAKER_02 38:18

Yes, she did, and she was down in New Orleans soon. So she is the cigar aficionado on the team. I unfortunately am not as I know cigarettes, I know marijuana, and I know my vapes, but not too keen on cigars just yet. So but she's got a world of knowledge on that, so I'm very excited to see the selection that she does. I attached her with not just blanket buying, you know, the call brands, but putting digging some teeth into it and doing selections and doing like strategic pairings with it. So that's gonna be going live soon, but patio spaces available if you want anyone else to come hang out.

SPEAKER_00 39:02

We're always doing uh a is it on the the inside or the outside of the you know, is it facing towards the sh

Patio Upgrade Cigars And Pairing Pitfalls

SPEAKER_00 39:12

the outside of the building or when you where you walk in, is it on the inside of the complex?

SPEAKER_02 39:19

It's facing the the outward facing. Okay, so that part where when you pull where like the garage roll-up door is in that area, they're like right in front of the door, there's 20-something seats in there.

SPEAKER_00 39:30

Okay, so that that adds to a little bit more isolation, probably, because on the inside it's a little bit more stuff happening on the ins, you know, towards the parking lot on the inside. Yeah, so uh yeah, right where you pull in. Yeah, yeah, definitely. Uh all right, that's that's that's awesome. I look forward to that. As far as cigars, cigars go, I one cigars will when you do a pairing for me on in a cigar, having one cigar in a night and then having a pairing with whiskey, it it always trashes me in so many different ways. I mean, I've had some strong cigars that just like floor, I did not know that cigars could floor you. Like you're you're having it, and all of a sudden you have this big cigar, and the next thing you know, it's almost like it has its own effect on how drunk you get or how you know what I mean. I just did so. When I started learning, so that's one of my educations on learning to not be doing these big, giant, you know, bold cigars. I always go for like the really good medium, you know, medium, and then I like a smaller cigar, like a quicker burn, because most of the time, if I have a larger cigar, as one person put it, cigars have their own personalities. As you keep smoking, it doesn't matter. When it's over, it's over. Some cigars you're only gonna smoke half, some a little, and then others you smoke the whole thing. It's just over.

SPEAKER_02 41:01

Oh, don't get me wrong, I do enjoy a nice pairing, but it has to be done right. I need something mellow. I remember going doing an account visit one time at a cigar bar, and I sit down, they bring me one of those black as the night torpedoes. It was the spiciest cigar I've ever had in my life, and they paired it with like 130-something proof rye whiskey, and I was sitting at the bar just you know, trying to like own my shit, be like on top of it, but man, I was dying on the inside. It was just spice on spice on spice. My whole lip the back of my throat was on fire between the smoke and the whiskey. Yeah, I was just I'm like, I was like, did this guy do this to fuck with me? Or did he go, does he actually enjoy this?

SPEAKER_00 41:53

No, I I I just you know, that's the same thing. It's like for whatever reason, Super Nash can just like he likes Liga Pravadas and he's got all these big he's he he got to the point where he's having two a day. I mean, for me, a cigar is a special occasion with special people. Like if we were there and you're like, hey, you want to smoke a cigar with this, with my, you know, I don't know. You haven't have you done a cigar blend yet? No, just the blunt blend. Yep, you've done the blunt blend. But if you were like, hey, let's just do this and whatever, I'd be like, I'd be there. You know what I mean? That's fine. But overall, it's kind of like every once in a while I think, well, I should go out on the back porch and I'm by myself and I'm just like have a cigar and a port. I'm like, yeah, no. It's just I can't, I can't just do it by my, you know, I'm not gonna be doing that just by myself. So, and it's like having podcasts or whatever, I don't do a lot of going out on the back porch and drinking by myself either. So anyways, the basement for that, yeah, exactly. It's is technically tonight. I I'm with I'm with you, but I am by myself, technically, right? Anyways, so that's great. Anything big coming up as far as you know, events at the at your place or anything like that? Or for you, do you got anything big plans as far as travel going?

SPEAKER_02 43:20

We've got a really cool caviar and whiskey event coming up in July that we're about to announce. So me and Spare, the other spirit guide, worked really hard sourcing some caviars and doing some really, really nice whiskey pairings with them. So we're super excited to have that event. Um, those tickets go on sale soon. I believe it's on July 18th, maybe. Can't remember off the top of my head, but that sounds about right.

SPEAKER_00 43:48

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 43:49

So looking forward to that. And then we are also working on another brand right now. So we're working, we've created another company. Called Noble Arts. So Noble Arts is going to be our distillant. So we're in the face doing lab-scale distillations on botanicals right now. And we are creating a botanical library to create gin and absinthe. So that still is coming in about this time next month. So we will have that installed and start rolling through those projects. So super excited to get that in and going. I've I love botanical spirits, I have for many years. That's one thing I like to do when I'm like traveling. I mean, I know whiskey pretty well. I'm not saying I know every brand, every flavor out there whatsoever. Don't get me wrong. But when I go into a liquor store or when I'm at some of these larger mixed spirits events, I'm constantly going around and trying abs and gins and just because there's so much you can do with those products. And it's refreshing. Looks a little bit different. I can't just drink whiskey every single day, but so we'll be doing several different varietals that we're going to be coming out with. We'll do some barrel age gin. Really excited about getting the absinthe because I want to make some uh absinthe finished rye whiskey that we'll release later down the line. So it kind of just goes hand in hand with a lot of things that we're wanting to do.

SPEAKER_00 45:25

Yeah. Before I was into whiskey being an artist, first commercial art, and then

Noble Arts Gin Absinthe And Vodka Plans

SPEAKER_00 45:32

got into fine art somewhat. One of the I was into absinthe. Like I was, I was the I was ordering Jade, the the whole, the whole series. So 2000 and I think it was 2005 is when Ted made it legal again in the United States and then started producing Lucid, but that's still the Jade. So I was ordering it out of France. I would order three bottles, I would watch it come over. But what I loved about what as an artist, and you're you you technically are an artist when it comes to how you craft whiskey, how you craft spirits, and how you're thinking. One of the things about absinthe, although I I am an avid, I would actually drink absinthe and eat like imported black licorice. I mean, I love the licorice flavor so much that that would be like even more so to me, you know, take a sip and then do, you know, so but what happens is if you're just staying straight absent, like you start, you I always found it only took two, and it got me, I would get a buzz and feel good, but I wouldn't lose my motor skills. So you would be like, for one of the things that I would do is I'd be working on a canvas, so I would paint in the computer, and I was using Photoshop and actually painting like it was a brush, put thousands millions of brush strokes on it, spend weeks on a painting, then print it out on a large format format canvas with

Absinthe Rituals Creativity And Louche

SPEAKER_00 47:10

hundred-year-old inks and whatever I had. I we I actually found a place, and then when I finally picked the place I wanted to wanted to do it because it was so the quality was so spectacular, it turned out it was in Akron, Ohio, and I didn't even know it. So I could actually order it and then save all the shipping charges if I had six or seven canvases and just go pick it up. So that that was part of it. Now, nowadays it's so much even cheaper. Like if I want to do a print of anything I did, what I used to be spend, you know, four to six hundred bucks on, it's like $79.99, but it's still and with the same inks and everything. But when I was painting, and then I would print it out, and then I would paint over the top of it to make it, you know, once you see something that you've been working on, a computer screen, whether it's a 25, 28-inch screen, and then you see it big, 40 by 60 or whatever, there was things you'd want to do to it. So I would do the things. But when you're working on a $400 canvas and you're like going, I don't want to screw up, you're being can you'd be conservative. So I would drink two absinthe and it would just take away all my inhibition, some of my best paintings. I mean, it was just like you still had the skills, all the all the painting, all the lines. Now, one time I was working and my wife's like, Are you gonna break for supper? And she gave me a glass of wine. And I came back and I was drunk as shit. I couldn't do anything. So as soon as you add in another liquor, but I always found a couple absinths is all you needed because anything more, it just doesn't seem to enhance what's happening. You know, you know, it's just kind of like if you want to get drunk after you've had a couple absinths, go back to whiskey. That's what she but I love absinthe, and I'm I look forward to what you're doing because you have a creativity and you're doing a bunch of different styles, right? You're gonna have the the you'll probably have the classic, you know. I and you and you know Royce so well. I mean, he's your best man, and he had a sword also. And so, and and they do what they do is phenomenal. I mean, they just do that classic, the black licorice is so good, and they've been recognized for it. There's no doubt about it. But I think there's I've had so many different different versions of it. You know, it's not there are absence people don't that don't taste like black licorice. You can do it.

SPEAKER_02 49:41

I was just tell having a conversation with someone tonight and they were talking about Neely's absence, and I informed them them. I was like, I you know, I'm probably the number one consumer in the United States of Neely family distillery absent outside of someone that has the name Neely, right?

SPEAKER_00 50:00

Well, well, I could tell you that Royce usually keeps me in in stock because you know I I do enjoy it. I mean, I look I don't drink it because of the amount of whiskey that that I have to that now all of a sudden I'm consuming on a regular basis, where I just like it's kind of cool getting to this point where people are like sent send you stuff and they're not even to come on the podcast all the time, but just what your opinion is. And so it's a lot of fun to do, and I appreciate what coming on. But last but not least, let's talk about the honey. I mean, when you were when you're on last time, you're telling us all about it, but tell everybody about it, and you you're gonna keep this going, right?

SPEAKER_02 50:49

Oh, yeah, we massively scaled it up. I think that we did 15 barrels, if my memory serves me right, the first trial run on it. We released six, I believe, single barrels of it across the country. And then I also did a blend called the Long Strange Drip. So that one will be actually we have some single barrels available at the whiskey house and the long strain strip, but the long strain strip we're gonna be bringing to KBF. These barrels were all like I said, experiment on it. So some of them were actually that one that you're drinking right there previously held buff turkey in it before we aged honey in it. Oh man, that explains there's some of them that we took, you know, those beautiful French wine casks that we get. We use those twice and then we're done with them because we've basically took all the flavoring or the finished aspect out of it. But they're still great casks. I mean, there was some like Tegura wine cask that held bourbon in it twice that we've aged honey in. There was some white muscatile, so there was a little bit, there's a lot of variations on it. So, and this is actually the first time that I had allocated, or we allocate like the LTOs on how many cases go to each state, but the single barrels that went out, nobody got to pick those, and nobody got to name their barrel. I picked them all,

Honey Barrel Finish And Sweet Sour Mash

SPEAKER_02 52:23

assigned cases to certain liquor stores in certain states, and that was it. And it has caused disturbs. There's a waiting list to buy a honeycast, and we're just super excited about how it turned out and what the reception was in the market. There's all kinds of great reviews about it, and I'm actually one of those people that as two years ago I would have told you I would have never done a honey. I don't like a lot of honey finished products out there. There's some that are just syrup or just they just taste like you went and bought five gallons of curkum brand honey and poured it on top of your whiskey and then rolled it together and then bottled it all.

SPEAKER_00 53:13

Well, um we just did that, honey. This bottle just I don't know if you know it, but it scored a perfect 19 out of 18. The even the nose pulled off the the classic but up up that we give. You're allowed to give an extra point for one category, and the nose on this is spec. I mean, it's like it it that it's it it makes you remember things about honey from when you're a kid. You know what I mean? How honey just not just as an adult but as a child, how you know certain things you put honey on graham crackers or whatever. So I I think that what you what you just said about how you're how how is it just goes into the how you market things goes into the insight of how much you've paid attention to every single place, especially being in Kentucky. And it's just kind of like everybody does something a little bit different here or there, and you're and you're very good at picking out what people do that's successful and then apply it to your brand. You know, there you do have to keep some stuff from some people. If everybody can get it all the time, we all know this. I mean, I I just you know, somebody's like, well, that's on the shelf and it was there for $1,200. I'd never paid $1,200 for an $80 bottle of that. And I'm just like, well, the reason why it's on the shelf is because most people won't pay $1,200, but there will be someone who will walk in and pay it. But at the same time, it makes those people want it so bad that instead of paying $80, they might pay. And I know you're not doing it for money, but as you yes, wait, that's a wrong statement. You're not doing it to exploit anything, but you're also doing it because you have to make what you do special. And when when every when the way to make whiskey special is sometimes that everybody just can't have it. Now, so far, some of the stuff that's really special you've supplied. I mean, I still can't believe I can walk into a store and it sells consistently here in Ohio. The the Mizanara finished stuff, it's there. And it's it's not overly expensive. And when you think about what that wood is and how much you have to pay to get it finished that way, that's a that's a special bottle, right?

SPEAKER_02 55:57

Yeah, I mean, that honey special. I mean, I went through about a hundred different pollinators of honey from across the country and abroad before selecting that one, and it is not a honey that you can just get online and order infinity amounts of it. It's not so what we buy from that producer is basically what he makes outside of what he releases for his own brand. We're actually, I'm actually gonna go out and to the papiary and the farms and visit later in the fall. So it's kind of full circle. But discovering that, I mean, because the thing is, like sometimes that producer he'll get he'll get two 55-gallon drums, he might get 10 next year, he might get zero because the way that the the pollinator source comes from, it doesn't always produce, the bees don't pull from it, and it doesn't give it that signature profile that it goes for. So we take those barrels, we take that, we select the cast, we take the the honey, we age the honey in the barrel, we dump it out, and then I come back in with a blend of sweet and sour mash whiskey. So that is a combination of two high-ribourbons, one from a sweet mash producer and the other one from a sour mash producer, and we have actually trademarked sweet and sour mash. I'm not a scholar on the creation of sweet and sour mash blends, but I believe from uh hardcore Google search, about five minutes, we are the first one, or we're at least the first person to market it, and we are definitely the first person that has the trademark on it.

SPEAKER_00 57:39

So I mean to come out with a bunch of firsts on that one, and and that's because of where you are in this in and how how you've been positioned in this market, and for people who McCauley comes from a background very unique when he comes from running working at Wilderness Trail for a long time for a while and running their single barrel program. But when Macaulay was running that single barrel program, he really made a name for himself in the industry. There's no doubt about it. And that's where I met Macaulay. And what Macaulay did after being at Wilderness Trail is to, I mean, it's so much fun to be a part of this from the start. I mean, that first time when we visited you at your first space, seeing what you were doing, how you were doing it. I yeah, I should repost some of those what those drills we did into those barrels initially, because you know, you were just you just went right up. It didn't matter, just we tasted through and it was phenomenal. And it's just kind of like when you it's just it's his brand, and everything uh on it right now is yeah, it's like when you do that, when you flip that honey over, you actually can it actually just drips a little bit. There's some there's definitely some of that honey is in there, you know.

SPEAKER_02 59:19

Yeah, and that was uh that was also a production decision that we had to make too. So as you know, I'm I do as much at least filtration as possible. I mean, some of our regular unfinished bourbons will have some char particulate in it. I am a fan of not stripping all the flavor prop out of it, so that's flavor in the bottle. It's not a false. People are not used to it, if you will. But I just shake it up and get it back into solution on it because like after it sits, it does kind of has a little bit of separation to it. But if you go in and you do any more abrasive filtration to it, or if you do chill filtration, you're gonna take away so much of the flavor. And if you can't get past a little haze in a bottle, that that's just not for you. Don't buy it.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:14

Well, I'm gonna say if you can't get past a little haze in a bottle, that's honey finished. Because the, you know, the the the the honey, honey is hazy when you look through the bottle and it it reminds me of looking at a bottle, you know, through a bottle of honey. So honestly, yeah, I didn't have any problem with that. I understood that there's gonna be when you maple finished stuff, honey finished stuff, I don't care what you say. If you put the honey in there, filled up that barrel, and you let it, you know, some people put in their honey and they they bourbon age the honey, you know what I mean, and then they sell that. But there's to to get it so that it would be a strict honey finished barrel where you left that open and let it dry out to the point would take years. Honey, honey is sticky. If you're looking at a true honey finish, there's gonna be honey in it, and there's nothing you can do about it. I mean, some of the wines, you know, they pour out. You know what I mean? You can get a lot of it out. You that's you know, you can get to the finishing point. But but honey and maple syrup, it's it's not like there's gonna be honey and maple syrup in it, and that's what you have to accept.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:32

Unless you took any phone getting in there, even though honey is antimicrobial. I mean, there's still a possibility of it starting to ferment.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:43

So there's turning into mead.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:46

Yeah, exactly. I do want to make a little hung batch of mead out of some of the the barrel H honey that we make.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:52

Oh, that would be that I would like to taste. My my cousin was allergic to most alcohols, but he wasn't allergic to mead. So I've had he he went he liked to drink mead, so I've had specifically, you know, there's it's not like there's a lot of mead producers, but it's out there. So now you've got a new still working, right? I saw a picture of it online. That's that's our lab.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:23

This lab still, that's not what I'm talking about. Okay still that's just for some we're making liter 100% like botanical isolates on it to scale it up because when you run a bigger still, you have to use so much more botanical, and you kind of want to have an idea of what you're going in with. So I'm basically I'm doing like some compounding with it. So we're taking you know different botanicals, they're coming off the still 170 proof, proofing them down to kind of the target of what the bottling is gonna be, and then that gives us a better theoretical of what the actual product coming off the large still in production is going to produce for us.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:04

Okay. Now, are you gonna contract that or are you actually gonna have your own?

SPEAKER_02 1:03:10

We're gonna have our own. Okay. So, I mean, the thing about gin, I mean, so if you're running it through the still, I mean, that uh gin a lot comes off the still very proof hive, you know, it might be 160, 70, 80 push in, depending on how you're doing your distillation.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:29

How much how much uh juniper you want to put in?

SPEAKER_02 1:03:34

So I'm gonna I'm going for more of a modern gins. Of course.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:39

I like to I like to call them on the in my opinion, it's more like millennial gins because most people are younger, similar to you, the millennials. The gin that's being produced is not anything like that classic gin flavor. There's more botanicals, like you said. Some of them are putting juniper has to be a part of it, right? If I'm not yes, but there is there are different levels you can put in, and there are so many of them of the younger people, the younger generation, putting the least amount of juniper you possibly can put it in. And then even then, doing other botanicals to cover up that flavor.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:21

Yeah, we're the first gin that we come out with is actually gonna be a navy strength, so it's gonna be 114, 115 proof. It's gonna be very, very botanical rich. I'm looking to create a really oily gin. So you're an absence drinker, so you know what losing means. So when you add water, ice to it, it gets it the oils separate in it. So on that particular product, that's what I'm looking for on that. We're gonna, and we're still developing all this, but we're putting I'm gonna do a spice gin essentially. I don't like that phrasing of it, but think of flavors of India. So like saffron, cardamom, cumin, like doing some turmeric, uh curry, some more of a savory gin, and then I'm wanting to create a forest of the woods, so kind of like rhubarb, strawberry, like kind of brickleberry vibe on it, and then probably play with some pawpaw too. I want to have fun with this.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:23

So then as far as gin, I mean, gin is spectacular for drinks. So that'll so when you do a gin like that, that'll be like your gin at your bar at your tasting room, right? You'll be you'll be able to use those to make some really creative cocktails.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:41

Yes, that's the idea. That's the the main reason is I want to have more diversity at our bar and I want to make stuff in house produced. We are coming out with a red winter wheat vodka, also. That will be the foundation of most of our botanical spirits.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:00

Okay. Well, I I mean it's and if anybody knows anything about Kentucky, for whatever reason, the other spirit that any distillery will make, that the if they're if they're more into the the mid-size distilleries, gin will be made because that is like the other the the person who's touring that doesn't drink whiskey when there's gin available, that always seems to be when they're in Kentucky, that seems to be the alternate source of distillate that people go for. I mean, I I don't know how many craft distilleries and now and that have that make gin, you know, and it's there because of that fact of that offers something else that you can do. And and for you, I don't think this is just a something else thing. This is something that you want to do.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:02

I mean, honestly, I'm not gonna name a name, but there's there's a distillery that comes to mind that I actually like their gin better than any of their whiskeys.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:11

I mean, I know Kelly at and she's she does some very unique gins at Whiskey Thief. She does, and so that's that's right in the lines of the botanicals and everything. You know, she does a decent job, but I can I will definitely be interested in in trying your gin, that's for sure when it comes out. And the great thing about gin is you do it and then it comes out. It's you distill it and then it's there, unlike whiskey, where you buy it and you still age it, right?

SPEAKER_02 1:07:46

I will be doing some barrel aging on some of the gin.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:49

Well, I agree. You can do some barrel aging. She I've I've tasted some, and if you do some, you not a lot of whiskey bourbon barrel aged gin out there, but when what I've tasted, I've enjoyed more than I like gin in the first, you know, for for the most part. But there's, you know, I the I've had some gins with the that have a little bit of lemony flavors and whatever, and it but it's still once again, clear, clear gin and vodka for me, they would be something in my life if I didn't drink whiskey all the time. It's just I if I I don't know how you do it, Macaulay. Between wine, you you love wine, you love whiskey, you love, you know, you love, but but I mean, I don't I have to stick to whiskey, otherwise I would be an alcoholic. There's just no doubt about it. Oh, it's so now you're just a connoisseur, right?

SPEAKER_02 1:08:43

What I said, now you're just a whiskey connoisseur, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:47

And I I spend, you know, there's so many nights where I'm just like, I would like to just have a pour, like oh, I should have a pour, but and I just don't because of the fact that it's just already enough. It's just like I don't need to drink every single day. So, but at the same time, totally respect what you're doing. You want to give one more plug for the 250, you know, the 1776 to 2026. Just get just tell everybody about it when they're gonna be able to get it. And is it also available when you you're releasing it online, but it's available at the distillery too?

SPEAKER_02 1:09:26

It's currently available at the whiskey house. Yeah, the whiskey house, yeah.

unknown 1:09:31

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:32

Portion of it will be some of it has been released online at a pre-sale, and we do are gonna put up some more bottles on to the website on Tuesday, I believe. But this is a a limited five-barrel run. I mean, it was they were all higher-proof, so this is a pretty low-yielding one. We went in, selected these beautiful casks, and made custom char and toast profiles to do the finishing on it for the double process on it, and it just melded very beautifully together. Um, Avery's cousin is actually the artist that did the uh the artwork on the front of the bottle, too.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:08

I so there's that's that's unique, but it's you. I mean, she did uh I it made sense to me. Uh when I saw that that, you know, you've got the Lady Liberty and then the stars and whatever. Yeah, very, very, very nice.

SPEAKER_02 1:10:25

She's holding a Glenn Kairn, a bottle of dark arts.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:30

As she should.

SPEAKER_02 1:10:33

Yeah, that's just an example of some of the one-off blends that will continue to put, I mean, will continue to put out random small batches of unique products from time to time because that's kind of the motif of the the whiskey house is innovation, new flavors, new products. I mean, we have our core lineup, the LTOs that are always coming out each year, but it's fun just doing these one-offs, and I mean that's what the honey starters out with is a one-off. And we've also got several interesting one-offs coming out for the fall at KBF. So I'll give you a little brain buster on some of these. Long Strange Drip is gonna be one that's available. We have we're releasing a 19-year-old Kentucky Straight Bourbon Whiskey aged in Mizanara cask that is been aging in those Mizanara casks for about seven years. Super, super excited to put that out. I think that we're going to be putting that out in one of our super cool, let me just call it a box. But box doesn't do it justice. Package one of those. Yes. It looks like a beautiful library book that pulls out, opens. Um, it's it's pretty next level.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:55

So you can hide hide a bottle in your library.

SPEAKER_02 1:11:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:12:00

So so okay, so you you dropped a 19-year-old Mizanaro finish that was finished for seven years. Okay. I you don't you don't have to comment, but where the hell do you get that? I mean, where what I I mean that just blows my mind. It's not like it's not like you've been you got it and you put it in the cask. You had to get it already aging, correct? I'm doing NDA on that one. Non-disclose okay, so I'm not saying the I I don't need you to disclose where, but how does that even come about? Like, like, are you just is it so you're having a conversation and somebody says they got this and it's for sale, or do you put out feelers?

KBF One-Offs And A 19-Year Mizunara

SPEAKER_00 1:12:54

I mean, how you go about that process? I mean, that just blows my mind. I mean, and then then you've you obviously tasted, obtained it, and then aged it a little bit further because it's you know, once you've obtained it, but I just tell tell me, is it just connections that you've made over the over your time where everybody wanted to know you, and so you just got connections with everybody?

SPEAKER_02 1:13:21

We we have a lot of great relationships with other distilleries, barrel brokers, bankers, investment groups. The dy like the dynamic of buying barrels is rapidly changed over the last, I'm gonna say over the last five years. I mean, before the I mean, you know, people could buy stuff from MGP. Now there's just so much beautiful whiskey on the market from any of those things that I was saying. Like it could be a distillery that went bankrupt, it could be a private equity group that decided to put down barrels, you know, all those things weren't real in the mainstream long time ago. So now it's a really nice time to be a blending house or a whiskey house, like our model is. And one thing that I went to, I went to Fred Lannock's book signing, and he was kind of to saying that same sentiment. He's like, Yeah, he's he's like, it's interesting. Macaulay back here can go to Distillery X, take back their barrels, and releases a better product than they do. So there's there's a lot of cool stuff out there. There's also a lot of not great seller stuff out there. So I mean, we're we're constantly tasting through barrels, lots, things that we're getting offered. And just because something has you know, it's hazmat, it's 19 years old, it was in this or that, doesn't mean it's just an instant buy for us, like because we're not sacrificing quality. And I mean, 19-year-old whiskey is it is not it's tricky.

SPEAKER_00 1:15:08

It's tricky. Oh, yeah, it has to be 100%. Has to be, I mean, if anybody knows what they're doing and they're gonna try and want to make whiskey or bourbon and it has to go a long way, when it starts out, it has to start out pretty pretty neutral to the oak that it's absorbing. I mean, you know, because bourbon's such a big thing. I mean, you it can't, it'll just over oak at one point. So that somebody has to know what they're doing when you're talking about what you're doing to put the barrels to get them 19, 20, 21 years old without just blowing out your palate with char or oak. I mean, it's a skill.

SPEAKER_02 1:15:52

Yeah, I mean, they can they can turn into tannic bombs instantly, you know, just straight oak and bitter wood.

SPEAKER_00 1:15:58

So and there's not much you can do with it. You can't even flavor that. It's just and there's not much left in the end. Yeah, it's a yeah, but I will say here's a question. Because I am just my whole so I do a lot of energy, I will call it, I've done energy healing manipulation. And when it I didn't realize it at first, but bourbon and whiskey and spirits have a lot of energy in them with dealing with the people who are dealing with them directly. It's just my opinion. And when somebody I've seen distilleries that turn out shit, and then the right people go in and they take that and they're able to produce from the same stock that was producing shit, start producing really good tasting spirits and bourbons and whiskies. And then when they leave, it goes back to crap. Now, I understand there's a certain aspect of knowledge and knowing what you're doing. Like somebody doesn't know what they're doing, they hire people who know what they're doing, they're able to do it, and they even know what to do with the stuff that doesn't even taste good. I mean, there's there's a there's there's a lot of stuff that happens in the industry, but I also feel like when you get a hold of something, there's an aspect of your whole, I want to say, aura or whatever. And that goes into what you're doing when you blend and put stuff together. And it's not by accident that these things come together and you're able to make them taste good. And now I don't know if that sounds crazy to you or if that's I I resonate with that a hundred percent, Tiny.

SPEAKER_02 1:17:54

I mean,

Alchemy Energy And What Counts As Bad

SPEAKER_02 1:17:55

like I I do believe everything is energy. I mean, I always say make I always say that a barrel of whiskey or spirit is a living breathing organism, essentially. I mean and I mean, I I I I I uh I do embody a lot what what you're saying. I think that when you're making something, it needs to be done with intent and intention instead of just uh another quantity or another number on the spreadsheet for production demands or like accommodating your shareholders on the stock exchange or you know, mass consumerism products. So, yeah, I mean there's a lot of esoteric vibes that go behind dark arts. I mean, the whole brand is rooted in alchemy, which is kind of one of those you can view it as mysticism, you can view it as one of those, there's alchemy itself, there is those energy programs that you talk about. And it's a lot about change and transformation, and that's what we do. I mean, there's some, I mean, don't get me wrong, there's some barrels that we just like purchase them, they're amazing, they're selected as single barrels that are unfinished, but that's that's not just a blanket statement. I mean, that goes into mine and my tasting team's palettes. It's not that we're just all right, got we got the truck in, let's ship it Royce and bottle it tomorrow, you know. It's like, okay, like this isn't this doesn't fall into single barrel category, this isn't what we want. Let's let's sell it off. That's also the other beautiful thing about this business. Like, if I buy whiskey and I don't like it, I don't have to use it. I don't have to dump it down the drain. I go resell it to somebody else. And because and also there's this always gets me, and I thought about this when we were talking earlier. I hate when people say the term bad whiskey. Okay, so there is my definition of bad whiskey is something that has legitimate production faults, yeah, either it's a grain, fermentation process, distillation process, or has a cooperage error to it. Just because I don't like something does not mean it's bad. I can't stand when people are like, this is bad. It's like no, no, you don't like it. It's not bad.

SPEAKER_00 1:20:20

It's there's like I I hate what people say and when if somebody else being malicious either, but they're like if somebody else likes it too, and you don't, they're not somehow lower than you. It's just like I just it drives me nuts. It's your palate. Some people, most people like lobster or steak, but there are people who don't like steak. Most people like steak medium to medium rare, most, but there are some people who like steak burnt. And if they like it burnt, you know, they're not, it's it, I think they're missing out on something, but that's what they like. So eat it the way you like it because it doesn't matter what any when it all comes down to our taste buds, it really your goal is to be aligned with people who like what you're doing, and that is something of higher, you do something of higher quality, you put quality into it, and then people like it for that, but also because it also tastes good. But it's not gonna taste good to everybody. You can't please everybody in anything. I just not, there's not, I don't care. Some people don't like chocolate ice cream. I mean, you could make the best chocolate ice cream on the on the planet that everybody who loves chocolate, this is the best ice cream, but the person who doesn't like chocolate ice cream isn't gonna like it.

SPEAKER_02 1:21:47

Well, I mean, even like when we're grading things and selecting things, it's just like I'll I'll put stuff up into the program that isn't in my wheelhouse of like this if I was buying the single barrel to bottle it for my house, liquor store bar, whatever, I I I wouldn't buy this. But I also it's not that there's anything wrong with it. I'm just like this isn't my jam. Like, I but it's like okay, I can see why someone would enjoy and appreciate this, so then we put it through. It's not that it's bad. I mean, I it's also I don't know storytelling mode now, but it was we were at bourbon on the banks. It was god, that might have been the first whiskey festival we started.

SPEAKER_00 1:22:33

This was back in 2023, I think. I remember you were there and you weren't like sure you're gonna be there.

SPEAKER_02 1:22:42

Yeah, we had the longest fucking line at the whole festival. Like, I was like was slammed the entire day. I mean, it was backed up all day long. There's two of us meant two of us working it, didn't know what to expect. It was hot, and like this guy finally got up to the line. I mean, he's probably out there 30 plus maybe 40 minutes waiting out there, and he gets up there and he's like, Well, how do you have you just said you just started blah blah blah. How do you have seven-year-old whiskey? And I was like, Well, I do contract buy up the age product, and I was like, This came from MGP in Indiana, and he's like, Well, I don't drink Indiana whiskey, and I was like, Oh, well, you know what? I'm not gonna fucking pour you any then because your palate is too refined for this Indiana swill. And the guy looked at me like what the fuck just happened? First of all, like, you know, most brand, you know, marketing people aren't gonna talk to someone like that. First of all, benefits of owning your own business, um, not having a boss or HR to deal with. But also, I was just like, all right, dude, fuck off. And I was like, for anything for you.

SPEAKER_00 1:24:00

I don't know, I don't know if you said fuck off. You just said he told you that what he doesn't want, and you gave him what he didn't want. That's not telling him fuck off.

SPEAKER_02 1:24:09

That's just saying it was too refined for the ESL. He was it was uh below him, but then I mean he's like, Yeah, Indiana whiskey's all terrible, blah blah blah. And I was like, all right, try this one, and he's like, Oh wow, he's like, that might be one of the best fours I had today, and I was just like, Oh, like now I can deal with you.

SPEAKER_00 1:24:33

Yeah, he came in with this mindset of no, there's no doubt, and then I could tell you a million times over that whiskey is about experiences and it's as it should be. I mean, it it doesn't matter whether you're drinking it on a special birthday or you're drinking it with your son the day he turns 21, or you're drinking it with you, you know, at the dis you know, at the whiskey house having a pour with you, or being a part of your wedding and you pouring me a pour after. I mean, that's all really special stuff that makes that makes our palettes just it it seems like it sharpens you when you're having those experiences or or tasting through barrels or with with with the distiller or your you know the people who made it or you know those those experiences of what whiskey's about. And I really think you know this, it it's okay. I gotta I got I finally got uh I gotta read it. It's a super chat on YouTube. Where is your whiskey available in the Rocky Mountain state? Is his are is dark arts available in the Rocky Mountain states? That was the question on YouTube. I think he's in Montana.

SPEAKER_02 1:26:05

We sell a little bit in Montana, but I'm not a hundred percent sure. It's a very, very small volume and only to a couple stores, but you can order it from the website and it will ship to Montana.

SPEAKER_00 1:26:18

Okay, and it it will it ship to Ohio? Not yet. I mean, you're in Ohio. Okay, yeah, because you were part of Ohio. I mean, I just love the fact that you're up here.

SPEAKER_02 1:26:31

It it ship it ships out of DC, so it goes to basically every state except for like five or six.

SPEAKER_00 1:26:38

Okay, so it's the DC pipeline that's that's allowed. Yes. Okay, so that's that's that's awesome. I definitely what I love about what you're this is the last thing. I am I've known you from when you when you made me. It's just like that that experience.

SPEAKER_02 1:27:03

And and I I kind of openly I openly call you my Frankenstein child. Yes, you do. I say to your face and other people, it's not a stab, it's just a statement of fact.

SPEAKER_00 1:27:14

No, it is. I mean, honestly, that time you you taught when when I was doing the whole moonshine university and whatever, and uh you were there, but at that at that time

Shipping Availability Growth And Closing Plugs

SPEAKER_00 1:27:26

to meet you, there's an aspect of you that's always been there early on, it was a question mark to me. I didn't I didn't know you had a you have a really cool demeanor, you're laid back, but then once you get to know you, you're focused, you do I and I'm sure behind the scenes, as your wife would know, I'm sure there's sometimes you stress. But at the same time, but you never let anybody know you stress. But I but to to to go through this whole process to go from where you were to where you went to to then how you've developed this, it's quite what would you say? I am enjoying the spectacularness of it. And then I'm really being impressed by as you get more distributed and up as you upscale how you keep the quality of what you're doing as you keep going. And and we, you know, it's just a few short short years from when you first started and we visited visited visited you at your original space. Then you're into the new space. And the you talk about bourbon on the banks. I knew, I mean, that one, you were just, it took everything you had to pull it off. You were just like, I'm ordering these, it's gonna be here, and I'm just gonna do it. It's just like, and there you were. And that's kind of how you you've taken the reins of this industry and done so many different things, but at the same time, it's not like you're just flying by the seat of your pants. You know what you're doing. So just keep doing it.

SPEAKER_02 1:29:17

It's it's it's it's when when you're in the day of the day of everything, it's kind of hard to reflect on everything that you did to become who you are and what what the steps and those milestones and those ears, the blood, sweat, and tears, education, commitment to all that actually folds into. And it's like you stress out because the sunshade sales that you just spent twenty thousand dollars on, the screw popped off on it, and you're walking out the door and you have a mental breakdown over a screw. But it's funny, like that similar sentiment to what you were just saying, but but we weren't me and Avery were just in the Brooklyn at Bar Covent. Um, it's a huge spirits trade show in Brooklyn, and we went and visited one of my friends and who lives in Brooklyn now that I haven't seen in probably four years. And she was like, She's like, I'm so proud of you, Macaulay. She was like, She was like, I was there with you like day one. She's like, Do you remember when we were at your apartment and you were had those 15, like those huge brewing kettles out on the front porch and was brewing beer and like just figuring it out from the ground up? I was like, Yeah, that was that was many, many moons ago that I was brewing beer, but it just takes that one step of the toe, and then look at where we're at now. 34 owner co-owner of a distillery, 15 employees, 33 states of distribution. I don't know how many awards that we've won over the last few years, too many for me to count and recite off the top of my head. But it's just I'm young and this is just the beginning. So I mean, most people I mean, you've seen me at whiskey festivals. I mean, like, I'm highly respected by other master distillers, blenders, brand owners. I mean, I can hang toe to toe with all those people, but uh usually the youngest person on a panel or the the youngest master blender out there, man, it just shows that there's a lot of road to cover still, and I'm excited about that journey.

SPEAKER_00 1:31:26

Well, speaking of a panel, New Orleans, you were on a panel, and honestly, you were sitting next to the guy from Pinhook, and and it I have and no disrespect to him, but his model of selling whiskey and bourbon is like completely a contrast of what your model would be. And to watch the two of you on a panel sitting side by side, and I was like, I wonder what Macaulay's gonna do. And honestly, you I I've seen you throughout all the time, and you handled it, handled it perfect. It's like sometimes I don't know if you're gonna throw out the younger person diss that the older person wouldn't get, but that wasn't there. So I was like, I and I I and uh I've seen seen it happen before, and I've seen it not have now I've seen it, and you're just as you grow up in this industry, you're just doing exactly what you need to do, but you're still keeping that that grounded thing of who you are. I mean, I I when the night that you got married, uh you asked me to come up to your room and bring stuff up to you're in Avery's room. And it was like exactly kind of like you basically were staying in a hotel, but you guys brought everything to make it not a hotel. It was just like, that's that's that's Macaulay right there. That that's definitely just like, and I think Avery, there's an aspect of it that you know, to see that, and there's a happiness there that you know, that a part of you there that wasn't there before, and it's really cool to see you find your uh partner in life.

SPEAKER_02 1:33:26

She's amazing, she rolls with the punches, she keeps me on track, which is I don't know how she does that, but exactly. I don't either, but she does, and we're both pretty wild too, as you've got to experience, so it's a it's a dynamic duo for a good time. Were you at the panel in New Orleans two years ago when I was up there with the Master Blender from I did one?

SPEAKER_00 1:33:56

I did the new the first New Orleans that you were at, the the and then I skipped, and then I was there last then we went there, we then I went this year. And I and it's just kind of like it's it's a it's a it's a festival you gotta go to because the food's phenomenal. I mean, it's just like and and it's it's not easy to get to, you know what I mean? But the the weather's spectacular compared to the rest of the country at that time of the year, too. So but what at that panel, what happened?

SPEAKER_02 1:34:30

Oh so it was god, it was similar similar crew as last one. Swap out bar Carter was on it, the Melissa from Old Elk was on it, Jonathan from K Luke was on it, and then I was next to the Master Blender for Sazerac.

SPEAKER_00 1:34:51

So that would be Drew?

SPEAKER_02 1:34:54

Yes. Okay, me and Drew are very different perspectives on things. The crowd thought he was going to punch me in the face at any moment because he was sitting next to me and he's like, Well, I worked at Seagram's before you were alive and managed two million barrels and got 500 people on the quality control team and uh to do this, this, and this. And I'm just like, I get high and drunk in the basement and listen to music and look and look at whiskey as different colors and blend, and he's just like, uh and then like next to me was Mark Carter. So then Mark Carter would get in and like kind of co-sign a little bit what I was saying.

SPEAKER_01 1:35:46

Then Sean would get on there and co-sign, and then old Helk would say something similar, and then Jonathan would come through, and then it would just start over, just like by the end of it, everyone was just like, Oh my god, that was incredible, but what the fuck?

SPEAKER_02 1:36:01

I was just I didn't do anything, I was just speaking my truth. I mean, I weren't ripping on him. I mean, uh just people are different. I mean, the industry is evolving, and I mean I'm I'm it's a huge accomplishment and fate to be able to keep that mega behemoth of a company together and just just different styles of it. Oh, tell yeah! It's yes, it's what's fun about those panels though, is like I mean, the one that you were at this year, it was me, Royce Neely, Rebecca, Sean from Penn, Nate Wanger was the MC of it. But like each one of us, from an outlier, minus Royce, Royce stills, but like from an outsider's perspective, and they're like, oh, they just do the same shit. But when you sit down and you talk to us, like you hear about our philosophy, you hear about our art, you hear about what we're looking for, and they're radically different.

SPEAKER_00 1:37:01

Yeah, I I think like like Mark Carter and you, although you guys are doing you do things, similar things, purchase barrels, put out a product, but Mark puts out this product of a specific profile flavor that he consistently matches that's spectacular. I love it. I love old Carter. I love it, it's just like his do everything, this toffies and these caramels. But but what you do is you basically come out and make you even enjoy sometimes you challenge people and their palettes to just take it a little bit further. What is what is whiskeys? What what what what you know, and you put out spectacular things, but they're different, and that they you're not looking for consistency where Mark is putting out some really damn good shit, and I don't think it's always consistency, but it's different, it's just a different level of explosive flavor on something that he's doing because he's you know, it's not always the same, but it's caramel and toffee and just really good flavors. And you've got, you don't care if it comes out, you might want, you know, passion fruit on a whiskey. If you've if you like it, you're gonna put it out. You're gonna be like, yeah, that needs to go out. You it's just like, but you're still both doing similar things, purchasing barrels, purchasing barrels from the same place, too, because he just he purchased them, you know, and it it always amazes me when I talk to people, you know, you go to a place, then they're sourcing, and it's just like, do you go to MGP and pick your barrels? No, they just send them to us. I'm just like, okay, so then you go through them and pick out the whatever, you know what I mean? That's a whole different thing. Where definitely you, on the other hand, are always getting what you need to get to do what you want to do. And that's just there's there's so many different ways of doing this, and I love how you're doing it, and it's good to see, you know, in the in the industry that it there has to be people like you, Macaulay. It's just like if there wasn't young people like you doing this in the industry and defining the next generation of whiskey people who are the stewards of the whole industry, not just the brand, but just the industry and the direction, then the industry dies, right? It's just like I mean, there's a sh you know, there's a a crap ton of people your age who also love what you're doing, and you're gonna be growing, you basically grow with them, right?

SPEAKER_02 1:39:58

Yeah, 100%. It's always amaz I always like enjoy when people walk into the whiskey house and they're enthusiastic about the the bourbon industry. I mean, I do a lot of work with the University of Kentucky. I mean, I just donated them my old still. I've hired, I've had interns from that the from Ukraine UK's Jim Beam Institute for the last two years. I've hired people for the last two years straight out of college. That's that's the one thing I enjoy about this industry is like there's people are very excited and they're willing to learn and adapt when most of the time. There's like there's some people that you know you work in I work at this distillery for this many years. We did it this way, this is how it's supposed to be done in the market, this is all I can do. They go to another place and they they just don't last. I mean, you you can see that with people leaving brands and not they're all just sit single anyone out, but you'll see that this person had a high job at this distillery, they they leave, whatever reason, they go to another brand, and then you see six months later, XYZ Consulting Company on Instagram, and you're like, hmm, what happened here? So the thing about bringing in some people, like you know, you would think that brand new college student isn't gonna be one of the greatest employees, but it's their eagerness to learn, it's their association with the brand and the pride that they have in themselves, and also like growing a brand. Like, that was one of the things that I loved about Wilderness Trail was like there's a core group of you know, less than you know, handful of people that are like we built this company from a field into one of the highest selling distilleries of all time. Same with dark arts, it's like we are building and evolving this company together. It's not like this is we we make this one product standard, we've done it for a hundred years. Here's your corporate handbook. This is you just put color inside the lines, and that's it.

SPEAKER_00 1:42:23

Well, oh that's a now now. You're getting tricky on me. Because at what at Wilderness Trail, you definitely had ownership and what your relationship with them and I get it, but I don't think honestly, what you learned from that experience and what's happened since that experience has happened, I don't see I I'm I could be completely wrong, but I don't see you getting out and letting that all go someplace else. I I honestly think the brand you're building you you can you you evolve from it though. But do you really believe that you would do that scenario that happened there to with what you're doing now? Is that a possibility even in your brain?

SPEAKER_02 1:43:24

Uh I mean that it's my my experience working for that company is what set me up for success to create a company, run a company, understanding production.

SPEAKER_00 1:43:37

No, I'm talking about the end of what's now happening.

SPEAKER_02 1:43:43

Man, if you it's a phone call for $420 million, it's a hard phone call.

SPEAKER_00 1:43:49

All right, all right. So yeah, I okay. I'll I'll give you that.

SPEAKER_02 1:43:55

I I mean I'm not gonna sit here but we're not so I will speak on that. Like, so I do feel that there are certain companies out there, and I'm they're pretty some of them are evident that I founded this company, I started this brand, I have a five-year plan to build the brand and then walk away from it. That is that's not uh that's not my no my vision.

SPEAKER_00 1:44:19

I mean, you call all of your what do you call all of your employees? Spirit guides. Exactly. They're your spirit guides, and uh and and if you look now what's happening to your old company, it's sad because it's not what it was.

SPEAKER_02 1:44:38

It's just not well, it goes back to that statement that they made.

SPEAKER_00 1:44:43

Yeah, that earlier, yeah, the money. I get it.

SPEAKER_02 1:44:46

No, no, no, not the money. I was talking about the statement about how you were saying like there's certain people, their energies, when they're working with something, they're they're putting their magic into it, we'll say that. And then when that person leaves or those people leave, the magic's gone.

SPEAKER_00 1:45:02

So do you think okay, so in other words, let's just let's just throw out hypothetical. So, do you think there's anybody who could ever do that who could take your vision further? I mean, I mean, you wouldn't it be make more sense to just get the backing, but keep you? I mean, similarly to I I mean, I I just Penelope, what they did is something, in my opinion, they've they're still there and they still are putting what they put into it, it's just at a bigger level because of the fact of they've got the support and everything. I mean, that would be ideal for dark arts, right? So that you could get it across, but you're still in control. I think that and you're rich?

SPEAKER_02 1:45:52

I think that when you get into those scenarios, it just depends on what your partnership level would be on it. Am I the creative decision on it, or am I getting a call from corporate and telling me that I need to put out a 82 82-proof plastic jug?

SPEAKER_00 1:46:20

You know, you're like, yeah, you don't want that.

SPEAKER_02 1:46:23

Or is that person on the other side of the phone call the person that owns distilleries and the best wineries around the world and gives you access to things that you would never be able to have? But that's uh there's a lot of uh scenarios.

SPEAKER_00 1:46:46

Scenarios on that possibilities, and you're definitely the one person I know that is always open to possibilities because you like well, I'm also very idealistic and don't like a corporate structure, so well. I mean, that's one of the reasons why, yeah. Initially, when it, you know, somehow that might have worked, but that corporate structure didn't work, uh, didn't work for you, and it led to this.

SPEAKER_02 1:47:11

True.

SPEAKER_00 1:47:11

But yes, you definitely have skills. Let's wrap up the regular podcast. We'll say good, say goodbye.

SPEAKER_02 1:47:19

I had I got a few more. We've 13 got a few more bangers coming out of KBF that I want to tease. Okay, 13-year-old Heavenhill Asian Rango Cast. Yes, uh 21-year-old light whiskey hazmat, 11.5 year old Kentucky hazmat. Actually Jim Beam distillant, but it is the best gym beam I've ever had and does not taste like the kind of like status quo peanut profile, if you will. And then the KBF distiller is row selection. They actually picked out one of the 5149 mash bills in Orlaroso Sherry. So we'll be trickling some of those things out over that week. So what lots of lots of big bold shit. So eat your eat lunch before you come see me.

SPEAKER_00 1:48:16

Oh, I will. What skews are you going to be having there?

SPEAKER_02 1:48:24

Those are all the special, they're they'll come out on different days, is kind of the plan.

SPEAKER_00 1:48:31

Did you like rent a triple tent?

SPEAKER_02 1:48:33

Uh, we're staying in the same size. We we did get offered to move up to the the big boy side and get one of the large tents, but declined that. And just we're gonna stick with the size we have.

SPEAKER_00 1:48:47

You're gonna stick with the people you know.

SPEAKER_02 1:48:49

Yeah, I want to be on the craft side.

SPEAKER_00 1:48:51

I get it, I get it. It's gonna be wild. That that I mean, my god, after last year and all those lines and what you were doing, and now you've got multiple, multiple releases, and that and I I I just remember talking to you, I think it was after the first day, you're just like, I didn't realize that I need more whiskey. You're just like, I'm just going and getting it. You were driving it down yourself.

SPEAKER_02 1:49:20

Yeah, we we basically had a fucking car a box truck on site and kept re having to replenish. It was that's I mean, we didn't know what to expect. It was the first time that we've ever done it with dark cards. I mean, I've done it with other brands and didn't come close to the amount of volume of bottles that we sold. Probably God, for I mean, you probably add up the other years of the other places that I worked and didn't all three of those added up, didn't even equate to what we sold that weekend.

SPEAKER_00 1:49:53

Oh I can Macaulay you just you just see people carrying dark arts boxes all over the place. But but they But but honestly, Macaulay, you worked where you worked before, there was a there was a good story. And and Shane and Pat, I love them. They did they do a great they've did a great thing. And when you talk to them, there was that was there, okay? But it wasn't you. You were part of it, and you were but but as far as the face goes, you were there, and I and I kinda I remember you had done the barrel pick with Alan and everybody, and everybody got COVID. Yes.

SPEAKER_02 1:50:36

And you were just blame Kelly for that one. Oh my god sitting on the couch on a not anti-baxxer, and then the next day it's like fuck, we all got COVID.

SPEAKER_00 1:50:44

Yeah, and you you were I think you were just getting you were sweating that. I mean, you were just like sweating buckets, and I was just like, but I'll tell you, the what the the buzz of your booth is is your people and you. It's you're you're doing a thing that people are like interested, and then people start to catch on, and all of a sudden the line's there, and you know how people work. Well, there's a line here, it must be good. And everybody got and then and then you were delivering once they got up there. I mean, and you still will tell anybody who comes up and says, Well, I don't like well, I suppose on this one you're like, Well, I don't like Indiana. Well, it's like try this Kentucky.

SPEAKER_02 1:51:30

Yeah, that's the beauty of it.

SPEAKER_00 1:51:32

But you're dumb if you don't want to try the Indiana because it's damn good. It's yeah, I mean, how the hell is MGP any different realistically as far as the aging process than Kentucky? It's across the river. I mean, it's not like they're up north in Wisconsin.

SPEAKER_02 1:51:54

You can hit a golf ball from MGP to Kentucky just about. I mean, MGP, I mean, they're buying they're buying a lot of the same grains that most of the people in Kentucky use. Indiana also has one of the largest limestone areas, expositories, areas.

SPEAKER_00 1:52:17

Right there. It's the same damn limestone all the way up into Ohio. We got it too. It's just like we can drive by you got you the Wisconsin Dells. You drive up there in Wisconsin, there's limestone all over the place. But I will tell you this one of the cool things I love about it is is that, you know, the whisk, as you know, the whiskey industry, people don't realize after prohibition that although during prohibition it was distributed by organized crime. That's uh that's how it was. And people don't realize that distribution was just what was taken home. They they knew how to distribute during pro prohibition. So after prohibition, it just made sense. They just tiered themselves a little bit further away to be legitimate and just and distribute. And one of the biggest places, Ross and Squibb, where what Remus was pulling out of Indiana to ship up to she was was there. I mean, it's just like the history of that distillery and the history of Kentucky is just amazing, right? 100%. So, all right, so let's let's end this part. Are you game for about 10-15 minutes after? Yeah, okay. That worked for me. I'm not Avery's not like saying, come on now. No, she knows how it goes. All right, all right, everybody. Thanks for coming on tonight. I do have to I'll probably have to reset the song because I still can't believe I pushed it. I I eliminated the the theme song right before, so I just improvised. All right, let's get this going. All right, thanks for joining us. Thanks, Macaulay. What about your website? Tell everybody about your website and how to get a hold of it because Tuesday is when you're gonna go on to beyond.

SPEAKER_02 1:54:11

Yeah, darkartswhiskey.com on the bottle shop tab there. Uh, you can always keep up with us on Instagram and Facebook. That's where we keep up with most of the information on drops, things like that. You can also follow me on Instagram at the Bourbon Swami.

SPEAKER_00 1:54:28

You do a good job on Instagram. I see your posts all the time. Good, good posts. All right, everybody, www.scotchybourbonboys.com for all things Scotchy Bourbon Boys merchandise, t-shirts, Glenn Karen's, and then check us out on Facebook, Instagram, YouTube, and X, along with Apple and iHeart and Spotify, and anywhere else you want to listen to us. But whether you listen to us or watch us, make sure that you leave good feedback, five-star reviews, everything like that. And also on YouTube, become a member and then consistently, like Kirk does, leave us with super chats. And everybody remember good bourbon equals good times with good friends. Make sure you drink responsibly, don't drink and drive, and live your life uncut and unfiltered. And AI will take us out.

SPEAKER_03 1:55:59

How you play it out when you walk through that door. That's what the sky wear from boys got in the store. Tuesdays, those days, don't forget. We'll taste the whiskey on the rocks and eat. Hero Fox to be with us from your home by your car.