Doug McLaughlin Master Distiller Inside M And O Spirits: Long Ferments And Double Oak Flavor

We sit down with Doug McLaughlin of M&O Spirits to hear how a film-and-production background turned into a grain-to-glass distillery south of Columbus. We taste through Ta-Da, Pumpkin Spice, Black, Smoke, and a cask strength pour while Doug breaks down the process choices that make his whiskey stand out. 

• Doug and Mike’s path from basement R&D to a fully licensed Ohio craft distillery 
• Why M&O sticks to 55-gallon barrels and waits for real maturity 
• The double oaking method using custom toasted and charred staves 
• Long fermentation for fruit esters and a cleaner, drinkable distillate 
• Ta-Da white whiskey: wheat-heavy recipe, multi-run pot distillation, quick oak touch for whiskey designation 
• Pumpkin puree in the mash and spice satchels in the barrel for a balanced holiday finish 
• Black vs Smoke: same mash bill, different distillation count, different flavor profiles 
• Cask strength tasting notes and how proof can mean concentrated flavour 
• Where to buy, distillery hours, and why some cask strength bottles are distillery-only 
• Our July 25 tasting event plug and why “try before you buy” matters 

www.scotchybourbonboys.com. Make sure whether you listen to us or you watch us to become a member, subscribe, leave good feedback, all that stuff. 

A lot of craft bourbon talk is hype. Doug McLaughlin from M&O Spirits shows what it looks like when the hype is backed by process, patience, and a distiller who can explain every decision from mash to bottle. We’re joined by Doug (calling in from Asheville, Ohio) and we taste through the lineup while he lays out how M&O went from an off-the-books R&D basement setup to a fully legal, award-winning grain-to-glass distillery.  

We dig into the techniques that shape the flavor: a long 20-day fermentation designed to build fruit esters, pot still runs that change the entire personality of the same mash bill, and a double oaking approach that uses custom white oak staves toasted, charred, and smothered to lock smoke into the wood. You’ll hear why Black (triple distilled) lands smoother and more “classic bourbon,” while Smoke (double distilled) keeps a bigger mouthfeel with brighter fruit and built-in campfire notes that shine in an Old Fashioned.  

Then we get into the fun bottles: Ta-Da, a wheat-forward white whiskey that surprises people who expect “gasoline,” and a pumpkin spice spirit made with real pumpkin puree in the cook and spice satchels aging in the barrel for years so the finish feels like dessert, not a candle. We also talk cask strength, non-chill filtering, careful cuts, and how small allocations impact where you can actually buy the rare stuff.  

If you’re near Columbus, Doug shares how to visit, tour, and taste at the distillery, plus how to catch him at the July 25 event at Mother Stewart’s. Subscribe, share this with your bourbon group, and leave a review so more people can find the show and the makers behind the bottles.

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Transcript

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SPEAKER_05 0:00

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SPEAKER_01 0:48

Never print one third.

SPEAKER_05 2:10

Tonight, we've got Emin O Spirits, Doug McLaughlin, in the house. Welcome, Doug. Thank you very much. Good to be here. And we got CT from a top of a mountain, I'm imagining probably not, but you know, that's what you kind of look like where you're from. He's in his in his camper. Is there actually air conditioning in that camper?

SPEAKER_02 2:32

Yeah, you can probably hear it. So the air is running pretty hard because it's hot. But yeah, it's it's it's a camping weekend. It's the one time of year that I take this camper out. It is used for only one weekend, and this is it. So but could could not miss this. You know, Doug is such a great guy and does an amazing amount of things. I think that

Meet Doug From M And O

SPEAKER_02 2:56

I I think people are gonna realize through drinking his product, what effort he puts into this. I I have to tell you, Doug, the the biggest vote of uh I guess clout might be the word, or like the that somebody could say about you is when Wendy tells me, she's like, you have to go see Doug. Like when Wendy throws out names and says, You have to go see them, they're amazing. They're you know, Wendy doesn't do that for anybody. So the fact that she thinks that much about you, it it obviously shows.

SPEAKER_01 3:32

Wendy's awesome. Uh she she's hung out at that at the MO with me several times, just absorbing everything that I'm I've been doing and showing her. And it's it's always a good time when she comes down. So it's I'm always glad to have her down there. She's great.

SPEAKER_02 3:47

So so you guys is it Asheville? Is that where you sit?

SPEAKER_01 3:52

Yeah, Asheville, Asheville, Ohio, just south of Columbus, uh right off of 20 Route 23.

SPEAKER_02 3:57

Yeah, so if you're coming down, you go past Circleville and you're right after Circleville or before Circleville.

SPEAKER_01 4:02

We're we're before Circleville, so we're we're you hit south of Bloomfield and you take an immediate uh go east, go or turn left if you're going south, and you're a mile down the road on the right.

SPEAKER_02 4:13

So on the railroad tracks.

SPEAKER_01 4:16

Yeah, right by the rail tracks. If you cross the big railrocks, you've gone too far, turn around, we're right there. So but uh very cool.

SPEAKER_02 4:23

So you you how long has MO you guys have have been doing this for a little while. How long have you been distilling and having product out there?

SPEAKER_01 4:35

So Mino is is two people. It's McLaughlin, that's me, and a Roscoe, that's my buddy Mike. And we've um we've been working together in video and film for uh 25 years, and we're always trying to find something else to do besides load and unload a truck seven times a day doing all these shoots we do. And so somewhere in Kansas in 2014, we're we're sitting in a bar trying to get something to eat after a 14-hour shoot, and we're sitting there swirling a bourbon, sipping on it, and I look at Mike, I think I say, I I think I can make this. So on the way home, we we came up with a plan to buy a little tiny still, and then we turned my basement into a I like to call it an RD center because it's illegal any way you look at it. Um and so we we I I went through 27 different mash bills before we landed on what became our black

From Basement R And D To Legal

SPEAKER_01 5:40

and our smoke. And so the the the cast strength of smoke is called batch 27 in homage to that 27 batches that it took to find a mash bill that is our black and smoke. But so we did that from from 14 to 17, and then I started reading the Tex and Trade Bureau website and turning white, and you know, like I don't want to go to jail. So I called Mike and said, hey, we either need to go legal or shut this down because it's too risky. I don't want to, you know, I don't want to, I don't want to mess this up. So so we we started the whole process in 2017, going through the process of finding all the right avenues and starting the process of getting our DSP through the federal government and getting our A3A through through Ohio, Ohio liquor. And so finally, in we got our DSP in January of uh 2018, and we got our A3A in June of 2018, and then we've been distilling in Asheville since since June of 2018. So but uh everything everything we everything that's coming off now is coming off over five years old. So we've got some really great mature stuff that is just nailing it. So but we we do some things different at our place that most distilleries don't do, and that makes a huge difference in the product quality that that we're that we're putting out, and people just don't know they haven't tried the best bourbon yet. So so we we need to we need to fix that. We make some really good stuff. We I send this off to awards and bar barley corn awards. We we came back with six double golds, and got best single barrel bourbon of the year for the second time in a row, and best craft distillery of the year for the second for a second time, and then we just got our ascot awards back from the ascot awards, and we got two double platinums for our two cast strength versions, a platinum for our black, and a gold for our our smoke. So and the documentary also got a double platinum, so yeah. So I mean every everything I send in, we're we're getting great feedback and and and great rewards for

Awards And What Sets Them Apart

SPEAKER_01 8:05

it.

SPEAKER_02 8:05

Yeah, the documentary was great too. I think we saw that at echo on the vine when we uh watched that there. That was that was great.

SPEAKER_01 8:13

That was a long process to shoot that whole thing for seven, well, yeah, seven years since we shot that. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 8:20

Yeah, to take it from beginning to this point. But you know, so I feel like you guys, you you and Mike are just such great personalities. You're you're both very approachable, you're obviously very knowledgeable about what you're doing, and you're not shortcutting. The other thing that a lot of people won't recognize, and not that this is wrong because some people do things differently, but you use 55-gallon drums on almost everything. I most of the stuff I see you're using the big barrels.

SPEAKER_01 8:49

It's not small barrels, no small barrels, trying to age on quicker.

SPEAKER_02 8:53

You're you're going the process of using big barrels and getting that age up there to where what we're gonna try today starts to show.

SPEAKER_01 9:03

Yeah, and so we we have the we're using the large barrels and we also developed a double oaking process that is different than most people that it's just different. And it's it makes a huge difference in the in the total the finished product is is is just amazing. But we we make up our own staves that we add into the barrel after we fill the barrel to double oak inside the barrel, kind of like what Baker's Mark does with their French oak, but we we do it with white oak, but the way we we we toast them first, then we char four them, and then instead of hitting them with water, we smother them and we keep that smoke in the char. So for the the smoke barrels, we're adding 12 of those staves into that barrel, and that infuses it with a campfire oak smoke in the finish. And then when we add the same the same staves to the black, we soak them in water first. We just want the big charamel vanilla, a big oak finish on that one. So but it it adds a whole second layer of just freshness of the oak going into it, and it just infuses the whole thing. But yeah, we're and yeah, so it's a lot of a lot of different processes that we're doing that most distilleries don't do. We we also don't we don't we don't ferment on grain and which means we don't we don't cook the grain when we're distilling it, which gives us a much cleaner distillate on the white dog. So most people that taste our white dog are they're like, why aren't you selling this? This is really good. But so we we start with a product that's

Double Oaking With Smothered Staves

SPEAKER_01 10:40

drinkable and then we put it in a barrel, and it's just gonna get so much better once it stays four or five years in a barrel, it's crazy.

SPEAKER_02 10:47

Yeah. So Jeff, is this you've had at the festivals, you've had it and places, but so the bottles that I sent you, and and you're right when you said that. I so I had I brought the wrong one from the house, but Jeff, your bottle B is gonna be the cast strength of black.

SPEAKER_05 11:12

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 11:13

You I did for whatever reason I grabbed the wrong one when I went to the house. But B is gonna be cast strength. So even though I'm gonna drink the regular one, that's what Jeff has.

SPEAKER_05 11:23

And I have the regular one too, right? You gave me that.

SPEAKER_02 11:26

You have just the regular smoke or regular black, right?

SPEAKER_05 11:30

Yep.

SPEAKER_02 11:30

Yep, that that's so you and I have that one, but your B is cast strength. The cast strength one.

SPEAKER_05 11:38

Okay. Yeah, you're right. It's not XYZ this time, it's ABC.

SPEAKER_02 11:44

Hey, stickers, stickers are hard, and then you pick up bottles that you stickered three years ago, and you're like, what in the hell did I do that? I'm like, oh, I just sent that to Jen.

Clean Distillate Without Fermenting On Grain

SPEAKER_01 11:55

So so Chris, Chris, I'm curious. That black bottle that you have, that's an older bottle. Is that a 90-proof or is that a 100-proofer? It it says 100-proof. It's okay, barrel barrel number five. Oh wow, we so and we had just started that was like the first 100-proof barrel that we did. Everything we do is single barrel. So once we got the barrel five, we switched everything to a hundred-proof.

SPEAKER_05 12:17

I'm at I'm at 14.

SPEAKER_01 12:20

Oh, yeah. That that's a good one. That one, that one won the best. That one won a double gold back in 23. No, last year. Last year. 25. Just single gold rubbing of the year. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 12:36

It's I would agree. And you did say, cuz because it's I've I I'm I believe I met you guys in 23 at the Ohio Craft Distillery Festival. Yeah. And I and every year I go there, and then this year we saw you, and then CT's been with me, and I've never given I've talked each year I evolve talking and I know I gotta get there. Now, CT's been been to the distillery, and I absolutely have to make, I mean, it's just there's no excuse for me not be have because every time you've invited, you've invited us or me, or you know, every time I've seen you, so I want to thank you for that.

SPEAKER_01 13:24

No, anytime. You just let me know, and hopefully I'll have the AC working by then. Like I got a plan now. It's gonna take two weeks, but I have a plan.

SPEAKER_04 13:32

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 13:33

And and for people watching too, I'll drop this as we go through this, these uh bottles. But Doug is gonna be at our event on July 25th at Mother Stewart's,

Event Invite For July 25

SPEAKER_02 13:45

and he's gonna be there representing MO and having bottles there for tasting. So if this is kind of what that whole event was to be, why we like it so much is that it gives people a chance to try something that they may not have tried. People have seen it because if you live in the greater Columbus area for sure, you see these bottles on the shelf at the OHLQ stores, but maybe they haven't picked it up, maybe they're not sure what it is. This is the type of opportunity to try it before you buy it. So um I I everybody I've shared it with, like I said, that bottle I gave him not that long ago, it is literally gone. Um, everybody loves the stuff. It's just it's drinkable, it's got a good flavor, there's no bad terroirs, no nothing weird, it's just good flavored stuff. So, not flavored, but you know what I mean. It's it's yeah, it's enjoyable to drink.

SPEAKER_01 14:41

So I I always emphasize that what we we're grain to glass, we do not we're handmade, never source. So we we never pull in barrels from anywhere. We're always we're taking the grains from around our area. We use a four-grain mash bill, corn, wheat, rye, malted barley, and then we we we cook it, we ferment it, we distill it, and we age it all in the same building. And that's the way we're gonna keep it. We don't we don't want to be fighting that battle of competing against bottling somebody else's juice and you know, that whole thing. So we're we're proud of where we've we've taken it. We just need, you know, it just we just you know, I just need people to try it. It'd be great.

SPEAKER_02 15:26

So yeah, it's it's good and bad for us because we want you to be big and people to want it. And then, but at the same time, I'm like, I it's it's nice being able to get it and people not take it off the shelf and have to stand in a line.

SPEAKER_05 15:40

Uh well, I will say that your process as far as adding those oak staves in there. Most of my probably my personal favorite is double oaking. Oh, whether it be barrels or staves, but I find that the stave, adding the staves is just some of my some of my our bourbons that the the that I've tasted are my favorite, are all dealing with that dropping those staves in. I mean, it's just it does something, and if it's done the right way, like it sounds like you guys are doing it, you're you're you know how much toasting and and char you want and all that kind of stuff, and it's just kind of cool. And I would say that this one right here, the one I've tasted so far, the black, you know, the 14, yeah, it's fantastic. I mean, like like he says, it's drinkable, but at the same time, delicious.

SPEAKER_01 16:45

Yeah. And and it lingers, it hangs on, it doesn't dissipate. It's it's more, it's more flavor than bite. So it's just really enjoyable. So Doug, let's start off with ta-da.

SPEAKER_02 16:57

Let's start with that that that bottle. So, Jeff, that's gonna be your clear one D. The clear one? So yeah, so tell us what about tell us about ta-da, and then we'll uh we'll nose it, taste it.

SPEAKER_01 17:12

So when when we were in our our RD phase, I I was messing with trying to create a wheat vodka. And so this recipe ended up far too uh flavorful, fruity, sweet and smooth to be a vodka, but it was too good not to stop baking it. So we kept it, and so this is a 80% wheat,

Tasting Ta-Da White Whiskey

SPEAKER_01 17:40

20% malt. Pop distilled four times, but our fermentation process at MO, we ferment for 20 days, and that allows all the yeast to fall into a lag phase, which then starts turning up all these fruit esters. So on the nose of the da da, you'll you'll get a lot of uh apple pear, a lot of bright fruits on the nose. But then when we pot distilled it four times, it makes it really smooth. But the wheat makes it sweet. So we end up with this white whiskey that if you look at it, you think it's gonna taste like gasoline because it's a white whiskey, but it's the uh the furthest thing from it because it's it's it's a sleeper. It only ages for three hours in a toasted oak barrel uh because it because it has to touch oak to be called a whiskey. So we I we I proof it to 90, then we dump it in this barrel and it we start the stopwatch, and then three hours later we dump it and we bottle it. It picks up just a tip, a titch, a a stitch of flavor of color on it, but not enough to show in the bottle. But it's unique. Is it it's it's go ahead. Is it a used barrel? With whiskey, you can reuse the barrel over and over. Yeah. So we use the same barrel.

SPEAKER_05 19:01

To do it over and over. Okay, yeah, because that would be kind of crazy to be using new barrels for three hours, yeah. Three hours, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 19:08

That's just that that's not a good accounting situation now.

SPEAKER_02 19:14

But but it it is amazing. Like, Jeff, that's probably the first time you've tried it. Like, you drink that, and it's like, this is something I could sit and drink that any day, and that is so delicious to drink.

SPEAKER_01 19:30

Yeah. What's nice about it is that you can sip on it just neat, or you can throw a cube on it with a twist of lime or lemon, but it's a great mix whiskey mixer. It mixes great with anything citrus. If you mix that with a real lemonade and make a lightning lemonade out of it, it's fantastic. I drink it all the time with pink grapefruit juice, a twist of lime, a little simple syrup on the rocks, it's fantastic, goes with anything spicy really well. If you mix it with a real limeade, it's it's almost like a margarita. So it's it's a very flexible uh where it's unusual that you can make a really good summer drink out of a whiskey. So this this it's it's really kind of a a neat neat a neat product.

SPEAKER_05 20:13

Well, pot stilling, a lot, I think, really there's people I know who pot still. There's they've I've up here at Dravasi, they did a winter, a winter whiskey, and that they made drinks out of that was that was quite nice, and you get that flavor. And I'm glad that you went with tada as the as the name instead of calling it Wheatley vodka, because that would have caused a problem. Yeah. But tada made sense. I mean, you know, you probably had this a while ago, right? The the idea.

SPEAKER_01 20:46

Oh, this was back in probably 2015 when I came up with this one. Right. Um and it it it was one of the first ones I made at at the distillery uh once once we got the uh the DSP because we didn't have to age it, so I can make up a batch of that. It still takes forever to make because we have to run it through four individual four individual runs of the pot still. But you know, no aging, I can get it out there, start selling that. But again, it's it's just it's just unique. My my grain bills, all my grain bills are are kind of high in the barley content. So but but but I like the texture it gives the whiskey. It gives it a little bit of a cereal, almost a little bit of a texture and mouthfeel. But it it also and when you know when you're dealing with barley and then that much wheat, it's just a a smooth wheat, just tends to calm everything down and but yeah, I don't know, but it's just it's just a very good product. Again, it's a sweeper, nobody will pick it up off the shelf because it doesn't have color on it, you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_02 21:54

So right, but but you're right, like for summer, like you think about being People with lemonade, Sprite, whatever it may be. It's it's it's a good mixer to to be able to have that because it is it is unique in that manner and it has those citrus fruit flavors that pop out of there.

SPEAKER_01 22:14

Yeah. So yeah. Um it's it's again it's one of those I'm proud of it. We're not gonna take it away because um once people try it at the distillery, they're a fan, and it's it's usually a big surprise when they when they try it. Ta-da! Yeah, and it's and and it's a lot of them go home with one of them. So so I sell a lot of it at the distillery. It's a slow stellar on the shelf at OHOQ, but I'm not in very many agencies with it either.

SPEAKER_05 22:42

So you need you need one a party label. That's what you need for it, because that's what it, you know, what you what you're trying, because all your other stuff, you know, the M and O, I love your label. It gives, you know, the the the whole country or you know, the the warmth of of you know a cabin with the with the with smoke coming out. But with this, you gotta like to get people to pull that off, you gotta just have just like that party red, purple, Mardi Gras kind of thing. I I I do it is it it you pick up that wheat flavor that is in like wheat whiskey, but it's not this is not hasn't been matured, but you still get that that essence of the wheat in there, yeah, which is nice. And and it is better than any vodka that I've ever wanted to taste, you know, that kind of thing. I mean, this this is per has purposeful flavor where vodka's trying to cover up all flavor, you know. That's kind of it. So yeah, it's a nice product.

SPEAKER_02 23:48

Thank you. So should we move next into do you want to do the pumpkin or the smoke next?

SPEAKER_01 23:56

Let's do the let's do the pumpkin next. Because then once we get into the smoke and the black, those those are very, those are heavier than the pumpkin. So those are gonna I don't I don't want the those to cover up the flavors of the pumpkin. So pumpkin should be A, Jeff. Is that right?

SPEAKER_05 24:14

I got A, but I do not know if that's right.

SPEAKER_02 24:18

Well, it's gotta be it'll be the lighter one because I don't have my A. I had to borrow the one that's almost gone.

SPEAKER_05 24:26

The lighter one? That's not even fair. B is the lightest.

SPEAKER_01 24:34

Okay, well then B, it's B then. It's gotta be B, because that can't be cast. That one's gotta be it's it's gotta be the B.

SPEAKER_05 24:43

You can see that, right? Yeah, B is B the middle one?

SPEAKER_04 24:47

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 24:48

Yeah, that is it. Sorry, that is that don't taste like no cast strength to me.

SPEAKER_02 24:56

So you I would so your your cast strength is gonna be A.

SPEAKER_05 25:01

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 25:02

Sorry, I got those two, but when I grabbed my bottles, I didn't yeah.

SPEAKER_01 25:09

We're working it out. So so with with this with this product, we're in Pickaway County, and in Pickaway County in Circleville, they have the pumpkin show. Millions of people show up there every October to go to the pumpkin show. Our original location was gonna be

Pumpkin Spice Spirit Built For Finish

SPEAKER_01 25:30

in Circleville, and I was having meetings with the mayor and a real estate uh leasing company, and they I wanted to impress the mayor, show him that I'm I'm on his side. Let's let's do something that's gonna be positive for the the city of Circleville. So I developed the the pumpkin spice holiday spirit, and what I decided, I wanted I didn't want this to be a flavor, I wanted it to be enjoyable with a with a great finish of a pumpkin. So what I did is I started with the bourbon, the four-grain bourbon mash bill, and then I added pumpkin puree in with the grain and cook the grain with the pumpkin puree, and then that pumpkin puree just kind of melts into the wash. So you don't even see the pumpkin in there, but it's in in it's in with all the water. And then we we cook that and then we ferment that again for 20 days, so we get a lot of fruit notes happening on the nose, and then we pot distill that twice. And so what we end up with is oh, then when we age it, we go into a char four barrel, and then we put two satchels of pumpkin spice spice in the barrel with it. So it's it's for this is a five-year soak in a barrel, and those two satchels sat in there with it for five years, and so we're getting the cinnamon, the nutmeg, and the ginger. I'm just kind of mingling around. So my goal was to drink like a whiskey, a sweet whiskey up front, and finish with the pumpkin and spice in the finish and just be a good holiday whiskey for a good finish after a meal.

SPEAKER_05 27:09

So pumpkin puree. So explain what pumpkin puree is. My wife pures pumpkins for pumpkin pie. Or was is it similar, the same thing?

SPEAKER_01 27:22

Yeah, I buy the the number 10 cans of pumpkin puree. When people are making mass amounts of pumpkin pies, they'll they'll buy these number 10 cans. And it's just pumpkin that's cooked, and there's no solid pieces, it's like and and then so all that just sort of goes into the wash and just becomes part of part of the water.

SPEAKER_05 27:43

How much does do you need to do that?

SPEAKER_01 27:46

So for a for a 200-gallon mash tun, we're putting 104 pounds of pumpkin puree in there. So that's a lot of pumpkin. And it's a pain in the butt to get that much pumpkin out of canp.

SPEAKER_05 27:59

Well, I was trying to think about doing about making it fresh and trying a batch that way, but that would be a lot, a lot, a lot of pie pumpkins.

SPEAKER_01 28:10

That's a that's a that's a mess.

SPEAKER_05 28:13

But I I I actually enjoy the process because the pumpkin pies always, when you use fresh pumpkins and you do it, my wife does it, and she usually makes she makes enough so that she can, you know, make it throughout the year. She freezes some of it, but you know, it's it's and I like the process, but I don't think I would like the process trying to get 104 gallons for that. No, that would be that would be rough. But I will say, with this, honestly, it the marketing aspect to this is this is gonna go. I'm gonna save part of this this sample. And the first pumpkin spice latte that Starbucks does, I'm dumping that. That's what's going in my pumpkin spice latte, because I think that would be fantastic. I mean, you got that, but then this would complement it amazingly.

SPEAKER_01 29:02

Yeah. And it it the pumpkin just does something really interesting, it just smooths the whole thing out. It's 90-proof, but it drinks like a 60-proof. It's just so smooth. And it's it's just so sweet on the tongue, and then you get those just long lingering tastes that then just finally settle on your gums in the finish.

SPEAKER_02 29:24

So it's you nailed it as far as not making it taste like a pumpkin flavored drink, which yeah, we've all had some of those that it's like that pumpkin flavor can be overpowering and it doesn't lend itself good to bourbon and whiskey. But I I think the balance, like when I drank it there and I bought it, and I'm like, I gotta, I've got friends that'll love this. So I gave it out to several people, and and they all just loved it because it I don't even know that most people would know that that is pumpkin. They drink it so good, it's so I'm not sure that it that people would be like, oh, look, this has got pumpkin in it. No, it just has a really nice, it's drinkable.

SPEAKER_05 30:07

Look how low your bottle is. It's definitely it's so it's gone. Yeah, holy man.

SPEAKER_02 30:16

Oh this, I'm telling you, these guys, they don't play around. They it's it'll it's well, it's gone when I get out of this camper. I'm gonna tell you that. Yeah, great, great bottle though.

SPEAKER_05 30:31

So let's go to uh and look what it does in the glass as far as like the viscos the viscosity on it. It just the legs are super long and it's an oily deliciousness.

SPEAKER_01 30:44

Yeah, we we don't do any we don't do any chill filtering or anything like that. So we uh it just everything just lingers and holds on to your gums, and you know, 10 minutes from now you're still gonna be tasting our product, you know. So let's let's go to the black first because the smoke drinks bigger than the black. So I always like to do black first and then jump to the and we're doing the black cast drink, right? That'll be your that'll that that'll be that we'll do the black cast last because that's gonna overpower everything. So, Jeff, yours is in the bottle, mine's in the bottle, so yeah. And I got mine in the bottom. No, I don't. What do I guess I go I'm going back here? There we go.

SPEAKER_05 31:29

Cracking a new one. Fresh crack. We've got a person who ferments and and distills in Iran. Listening. I would I would actually try and say his name, but it's but uh it's not happening. There's just no way. But but thanks for watching. Thank you. Thank you. Yes, axe, yes, excellent. At least we know that internet's working. Probably better than mine.

SPEAKER_01 32:01

No, your internet's working fine. Yeah, there haven't been any issues. So the black, uh black, 100-proof black, bourbon whiskey. This was the this was the 27th mash bill that we uh our black and our smoke both are off of the same exact mash bill. The difference is how many times it's distilled and how they're aged, which makes a huge difference in the the output of the final product. So black is pop distilled three times. When you pop distill something three times, it it pulls all the all the big flavors together tight, and then this drinks nice and neat right down the middle of your tongue. It's

Black Bourbon: Triple Distilled Character

SPEAKER_01 32:48

it's a it's a perfect, just really smooth, sweet bourbon. And then we we put it into a char for a barrel, and then we add 10 soaked staves into it, and then we just let time do the work. When we when we pull this, we usually uh usually gain about at five years, we're gaining about four or five points of proof. So we're once we get to the cast strength, I think we're right around 127 and a half, but we go in at 123.

SPEAKER_05 33:18

I'm so excited to taste the cast strength because because at a hundred, honestly, honestly, CT, I have 120 proof booker notes on this, like in what bookers pulls off, how it de how bookers deals with oak, you've got that. It just like there's a flavor that always throughout all the bookers is there, and that flavor is here, but it's at 100 proof. And I don't think I've ever had that flavor. I I have it consistently in the cast drinks of other bourbons, but I don't think I've ever had it at 100-proof. So I'm excited to get to the cast drink because you pulled it off in this, and it's something that I've all that's something I love. So it's obviously the oak and the char and those staves that are just like adding that pure extra, you know, complexity of the whole palette. You know, it's just like it's a full, full palette with a great mouthfeel.

SPEAKER_02 34:27

And you know, like, and not to cut Doug off, but you're wrong. A lot of times when people talk about double oak, because it's so common with brands like Woodford and you pick up a lot of chocolate notes because of their double oak process or butterscotch. I don't know necessarily get chocolate on this. It's just a nice oak compliment, like you said, Jeff. It's like that oak flavor gives it kind of like it's maybe tastes like it's a little older than it is, actually, for me. It's just um at 100 proof.

SPEAKER_05 34:58

It's almost like it's pulling out a spiked butterscotch bur like charcoal flavor. Like the butterscotch on it is like the right at the top where there's still the the the charcoal, like a char, but there's like sweetness of butterscotch right there. Like you know what I mean? It's but it's on the edge. It's it's delicious. I mean, it's it's bourbon. You're you know, that's all I can tell you. It's just like when it's when you think of bourbon, you nailed it.

SPEAKER_01 35:29

We got a couple things going in this that are very interesting because we still do the long fermentation with this product too. So we're going 20 days on the fermentation, we're getting all that apple pear coming off the mash, and only then do we do we move it on because those follow through the whole distilling process, those fruit notes follow through. But when this triple pot distilled distillant goes into the barrel, it interacts differently with the the oak char than like the smoke. Twice pot distilled acts differently with the char. And we get totally different, distinct fruit notes from the char. So these pick up a lot of dark fruit. We'll get like plum, molasses, dark cherry is very prevalent in our black. I've even had judges' comments come back saying like the Dr. Pepper notes, you know, type of type of stuff going on. But it's it's interesting how the chemistry changes on that third distillation run because you're refining it, you're changing it, where the two times five distilled is a much heavier distillant, more viscosity, where this is a thinner one. So it it it it penetrates more into the oak easier than the smoke. So yeah, I think you'll tell you'd be able to tell the difference between this and the smoke, even though it's the same mash bill, we're getting two completely different products out of it.

SPEAKER_02 36:57

So and again, the one we're drinking for people listening or watching is this is the smoke, the 100-proof, it's not the cast string. So this is the one one more drinking right now, it's got the black. The black, I'm sorry, the black. 100 proof, and we're gonna now move on to smoke, correct? Yes.

SPEAKER_01 37:15

Okay, so so the smoke, again, same same match bill, same process, twice pot distilled. So it's it's got a big mouthfeel. See, Jeff. It hasn't seen that third run, it hasn't pulled it all together, so it's still kind of a wild child. Where I always like to, when people are at the distillery, I'll hold the black and the smoke bottle next to each other and think, this is a guy in a tuxedo with the black, and this is a guy in cargo pants. They're both sitting on a porch drinking fine bourbon, but they're completely different, but they're the same matchbill. But the the smoke drinks bigger, bigger mouthfeel. But the note, the notes you're gonna get on in the finish are gonna be completely different.

SPEAKER_05 38:00

You mean fruity?

SPEAKER_01 38:03

Yep.

SPEAKER_05 38:03

Fruity and there's a little caramel.

SPEAKER_01 38:06

Even even the fruit is a little different. We'll get we we get high fruit notes. Uh we stick with the the apples and pears up in that range, and then the finish apple. Yeah. And then we end up getting a lot of caramel molasses in in the finish of this one.

SPEAKER_05 38:23

I get that. I got that right off the bat. I got the fruitiness, and then I got the caramel right after it. Yeah, this is definitely this is okay, so black more tends to be what Kentucky bourbon is, and this tends to be what non-Kentucky pot still across the country, those are the flavors that will be in those pot stills. When you get that fruitiness and you get that certain thing, that seems to tend to be, and all and there's a there's there's the grain in

Smoke Bourbon: Big Mouthfeel And Old Fashioneds

SPEAKER_05 38:59

it, is there's an aspect of the grain that's still there, also.

SPEAKER_01 39:03

Right. Because that's that's what I like to tell people is that we haven't refined it too much. So the third one gets rid of all that independence where you can taste the grains. But uh at two times you can taste corn heavy in this, and then you can really, if you really think about it, you can actually almost pick up the rye separately and the and the the barley almost as a separate thing. And but we're still getting the the cereal aspect of the of the high barley count. We we use 17.5% barley in our mash bills for the black and smoke, which you know, most most distillers are using four or five, maybe less percent of barley uh to do the conversion. But I like I said, I like the texture it gives the it gives the whiskey.

SPEAKER_02 39:48

And and it we've been talking about this the last several podcasts. I I am a true believer that barley is what brings a lot of those fruit flavors in. That apple that you get. I think that barley just brings it. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 40:02

Well, and also his your distillation process, which is like you said, I've always thought, you know, because because I if you look into like the history of distilling, a lot of times before that that when people were distilling early on, it was just natural. They'd wait for the yeast to get in there, just kind of jump in and start doing its thing. There was sometimes it wouldn't, you know, and 30 days was like the common kind of thing for that, you know. And sometimes, sometimes it would go on and never catch. But at the same time, you know, when you're talking about what you're doing with the with the fermentation, that is that and then your pot distilling, the this that kind of comes out what you're doing in this one. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 40:51

And so go ahead. So so what what we do is we I have a I have a 200-gallon, so once we get it into the fermenter and and we we get it all all fermented and done, we get it up to about 15% ABV, and then once that's done, we put it into the 200-gallon stripping still. And then and that's a pot still. There's no there's nothing weird going on. We're just stripping all the alcohol out on the first run. 200 gallons, we get about 55 gallons at about 90 proof. Low lines, they call it. We don't, nothing to drink, but it's the start. And then then I'll start running that through the finishing still. I have a 50-gallon finishing still with a copper column. Again, pot still just straight up and over. And we're really watching the cuts. We we're I I watch the cuts so that we're I'm very exact on uh knowing where the heads are are out, and then I start collecting the hearts, and then I take the hearts down to a certain point before it it, you know, before it changes the taste and and color, and then then we switch over, we and then we collect the tails, and then we use the tails, we put the tails back in when we when we go to distill more ferment, we throw the tails in with the uh the next batch. Yeah, you do a sour mash for consistency. Well, we don't sour mash it, but we we we put so after it's fermented and ready to go into the still, we'll we'll throw the the tails in with the the the 200 gallon still and redistill it out. It's like adding the old with the new, we're keeping the the process going from the last mash into the yeah, you you keep some there's consistency when you do that.

Cuts And Distilling Process Deep Dive

SPEAKER_05 42:35

That's that's common and it's also as a distiller. There if anybody who's not using their tails losing, in my opinion, are losing out on product because if you're just if you're just tarts, and there are a couple places, a couple distillers who do just tarts, but it's just it's a a lot. I mean, when you you're doing this to make money some money, I'm not saying that you're trying whatever, but at the same time, that that's just like throwing away money if you don't use your tails.

SPEAKER_01 43:06

Yeah, because it's it's usually between 50 and 60 proof. So you may as well throw it in there, re recombine it with with the with the uh the new stuff, you know, you know, bring the old in with the new, and then re-collect that alcohol, and then you're always gonna have tails, so you may as well just keep the process going. And you're always gonna be doing the tail scut, so you're not gonna foul anything out because you're always clearing those oils out in the tail scut.

SPEAKER_05 43:37

So very very close to spirit uh what Alan does. I mean, that this one is very reminds me of something that you know that Bishop has done uh that you know what I mean, as far as on the pot still. And we love love what he does, so it obviously you're doing things right.

SPEAKER_01 43:58

Now with the smoke, with With those smothered staves that would that go in there, as you add uh a cube to this, the the smoke, the smoke essence will start coming out of there. This is a fant smoke is a fantastic maker of uh old fashions because the smoke's kind of built into it. And then as you as that cube starts to melt, you'll start getting more of that smoke. And that's you know, everybody likes a smoked old-fashioned. Well, this is kind of built into the whiskey too, so it's a it's a very good old-fashioned maker, but it's just a great, it's a great neat sipper. I love it. So it's fantastic in Batch 27, too, the cast drink version of it.

SPEAKER_02 44:38

So so both, so your cast drink versions, which we're we're gonna try one here in a minute. The you do smoke and black in a cast drink, correct?

SPEAKER_01 44:48

Yeah, so the the smoke is called bash 27, and the black is called cast drink black, cast black bourbon whiskey, you know, cast drink black.

SPEAKER_02 44:59

Well, Jeff's got that. I did not bring that to the camper, so I'm gonna trust I'm gonna trust Jeff's palette. Whatever.

SPEAKER_05 45:06

You it's like the reason why I didn't bring it on the camper, because the bottle's gone.

SPEAKER_02 45:12

Well, and I'm just hoping that I tagged it right, you know, like you know Oh, you did? Maybe that's uh Pap's blue ribbon. You you never know.

SPEAKER_05 45:23

No, you definitely tagged it right because when I when I when I tasted the smoke, it that was quite obvious, you know, the fruitiness and everything. Nothing nothing like the black.

SPEAKER_01 45:36

So here we go. So the one the one I have is the barrel six barrel 14. This is the double gold winner John Barley Corn Awards. Uh 126.5 proof, and it was a just shy of five years on this one.

SPEAKER_05 45:55

Damn.

SPEAKER_01 45:56

You probably have 15, which is five years, three months, I think.

SPEAKER_05 46:02

The nose is fantastic. There's like a brown sugar with that cola cherry. Oh my god. All right. Yeah. That doesn't. That the hug on that is and the sweetness that you brought through. Um it's funny because this at 120 proof or whatever that you're dealing with, and then you go to black at 100 proof, a lot of times when you go from this to the the the similarities aren't as close, but yeah, these it is well put it this way: this at 100 and this at 120 makes sense. Like you can tell it's the same to from here, you're using the same distillate to get to there. Like it doesn't it it it stays within itself, it doesn't go outside. Like a lot of times when you proof something down, it can change it its taste and

Cask Strength Black: Proof Without Harshness

SPEAKER_05 47:20

a lot of prof, but that that's not it. That and then the sweetness in this is amazing. I mean, that you're pulling off the barrel strength is just the it is it it's sweeter than the 100 proof.

SPEAKER_01 47:34

Most people see this at most most bottles are like 127 and a half. They've been coming off at the L or 5, they're 127, 128. And they're they're everybody's afraid of they think it's gonna be nothing but burn, but what it ends up being is just concentrated flavor. There's still yeah, there's a little bit of a bite, but there's not it's not huge. It doesn't it doesn't burn going down your esophagus either. It's very it's good, you get a little bit of a mouth burn, but not much going down your throat. On your casket. You don't get that con you don't get that Kentucky hug in your chest, but you get a good mouthfeel from it, you know.

SPEAKER_05 48:10

Do you how do you filter? Do you non-chill filter or no?

SPEAKER_01 48:15

We we're non-chill, we don't chill filter. We run it through a one one micron filter just to make sure we get all barrel debris out. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 48:26

But this way, if this got cold, it could get cloudy.

SPEAKER_01 48:31

I've never I've never had it get cloudy.

SPEAKER_05 48:34

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 48:35

So like I'm I'm pretty good at doing the the tails cut before we get oils coming through. You know what I mean? Um so I I try to keep the oils clean clean from the in the hearts in the hearts cut. It's usually right around 80 proof where things get you can you can as that distillate coming out and you can actually see it. There you'll start seeing little particles floating on the top when it hits about 80 proof, and that's when you know you're right at the edge of your tails cut, and that's right before the color changes. It gets that blue hue, the haze. So it's there's a couple little you know things you gotta watch for, and uh other than smell and taste. So that would it's just go ahead.

SPEAKER_05 49:22

That would be fun to be there and do a podcast while you were distilling, right? You know, as you're doing your cuts. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 49:30

Because the the only the only bad thing about that is that the the the heads cut is right at the beginning, and then there's this eight-hour lag to the tails. Well, you you just said that.

SPEAKER_05 49:43

Did you just say that's a bad thing? Well, that's actually a good thing.

SPEAKER_01 49:47

We'll bring there's not very people that want to hang around for eight hours. There's not a lot going on in Asheville, let me tell you.

SPEAKER_05 49:54

I'm not talking to uh we can make something go on in Asheville, that's for sure.

SPEAKER_02 49:59

Yeah. No, it's I I think everything you're doing, Doug, is you everything I've drank has been amazing. The stuff that we drank out of the barrels, out of the tanks that we drank when we were there. Uh-huh. You your your facility and what you guys are doing, it it it it's it's why I I know Wendy speaks so well of you is because you do put a lot into this and you are true craftsmen of your craft. You're you're trying to put out the best product you can, you take it very seriously, and you're not overcomplicating it. It's you're making good stuff that people want to drink. I think the biggest thing is people don't know M and O like they should. So we hope we hope to change that. I hope that on I hope July 25th, when people come and hang out with us all and have some stuff, I hope they walk away going, I gotta get a bottle. I got I gotta have that. You know, that's that's what we hope.

SPEAKER_05 51:00

Yeah. So is there a way a way to for everybody to get a bottle? Do you have a website or is it you know how how does it work?

SPEAKER_01 51:10

We have a website, mospirits.com. We're we're in right now, smoke and black are in about 11, 12 agencies. And then our cast strength, I literally take five gallons out of each fresh barrel dump, and that becomes my reserve bottling of our cast strength. So it's I get two cases. If I pull seven and a half gallons, I get three cases, twelve count cases of uh cast strength, and I that's not enough to send out to the agency, so I sell those only at the distillery, so you gotta want it. So you gotta come out and get it. And it and it's not that far. You're you're what 30 minutes south of Columbus? Yeah, for yeah, from from downtown Columbus, you can get to us in 30 minutes.

SPEAKER_05 52:03

It's like driving through Columbus in rush hour.

SPEAKER_02 52:06

But yeah, and and truly, again, everybody has their own little thing with all the distilleries in Ohio, so many good things, but you have a very unique setup, and when people come in, it is very inviting, but it's hey, you see it all. There's nothing to hide. Like you could your barrels are right here, your fermentation uh your pot still's right there. I mean, it's you you you don't have to ask, it's right in front of your face.

SPEAKER_01 52:34

Yeah. So and and I I I do I do tours, and and I'm the one that does the tour. So you're getting a tour from the master distiller, and I don't hold back, I tell you

Where To Buy And Distillery Tours

SPEAKER_01 52:45

pretty much everything I'm doing, and it's you get a lot of information for for a distillery tour. You get a lot more information that you get from uh any of the big boys that that are doing stuff down in Kentucky. That's those are just people that know a script, you know what I mean? You're but we'll we'll we'll taste everything. So it's fun.

SPEAKER_05 53:06

And that's uh so what are what are your hours? Is it appointment or is it schedule?

SPEAKER_01 53:11

Or is it are there tours I like to make appointments because I can do those anytime. It just our times have to match up. So call, leave a message, I'll we'll make a time. We're open on Saturdays, 11 to 3. I'm there a lot of the week, except for right now. I'm not there because it's so stinking hot there, I can't I can't do it. But but yeah, during the week, I tell I tell the locals if if my car's there, stop in, knock on the door. If you want to call the distillery and see if I'm there and then want to stop in, feel free. Um usually it's just me uh running around the building trying to make stuff. And if I'm in the back and somebody walks in, I I I you know I don't like those kind of surprises, so I want to I want to stay up to date, you know what I mean? So but yeah, just you know, it's just I I have people call all the time and say, hey, I'm I'm right down the road. Can I stop in? Yep, come on in. So but yeah, it so but definitely Saturdays 11 to 3, we're open. But again, if you want to if you want to do tour, just call, we'll schedule it. It doesn't have to be on a Saturday. Friday nights are always popular because they can get a group of friends together and then go get something to eat afterwards, you know.

SPEAKER_05 54:27

So last you said that you are you have you well the documentary and you shoot and your film team and are you still in that business?

SPEAKER_01 54:41

Yeah, right now the distillery is paying for itself, but not us yet. So we're we're we're still we are very light on staff. Well we actually we we don't have I I finally have a social media guy that's helping me with the Instagram, Facebook stuff, which is helping a ton. Because I just get locked up trying to do a post. I I get so caught up in everything, I just and then I get taken off track to do something else. I'm like, I just I don't do enough of them. So he's taking care of that. But I don't I don't have a marketing team going out to the agency, so that's that's kind of hurting us right now. But we just had our best month of sales. I just turned in my my my June sales to Ohio yesterday, and we had one of the best months in four years, you know. That's awesome. That's that's that's good.

SPEAKER_02 55:39

So we're gonna make it even better because I I think August. I'm gonna I'm gonna bet you August is the best month you've had yet. I hope so. That'd be awesome. We're gonna we're gonna keep it going and make sure that everybody knows because you guys, you and Mike are great people, and and and and your wife is amazing. It was nice meeting her. You know, she's awesome. The cat's awesome. I mean, come on.

SPEAKER_01 56:03

Yeah. I got I got two bango cats, barley and rye. So I'm surprised he's not behind me right now, you know, making a you know the scene here.

SPEAKER_02 56:13

So well guys, I'm being summoned out of this camper, so I gotta move on. But yeah, I am so thankful that uh you were able to come on tonight with the stuff, Doug, and and spread the word. And and again, people, if you don't, if you're not sure that you that you're ready to buy a bottle, you want to try it. Come to the event on July 25th. You can try it there, you can talk to Doug. He's gonna tell you all about you know everything that we've talked about tonight. He'll be glad to share it. And if not, just buy a bottle. It's it's I I'm gonna tell you that if you buy a bottle of black or smoke, there's no way you're walking away with that bottle saying, Wow, that was a mistake. That's that's a good bottle.

SPEAKER_05 56:58

I mean, it if you if you want pot still, if you love pot still bourbon, you're going with smoke. If you love Kentucky bourbon, you're going with black. It's just like just pick what which one you want. And if you love both of them, buy both. And I will say the cast strength or even the hundred-proof on the black was fantastic. But I will say, yeah, on the 25th, there's gonna be a way that we can send people to go buy bottles after it's over, correct? That's what we're looking to do.

SPEAKER_02 57:32

There'll be a place where we'll we'll be able to network them through the OHLQ and so forth. But yeah.

SPEAKER_05 57:40

Yeah, well, hopefully, it's not like we're gonna have a pop-up there.

SPEAKER_02 57:44

Not yet.

SPEAKER_05 57:45

Well, damn it. Make and make that make and make that happen.

SPEAKER_02 57:49

Don't worry, once we get this thing done the way we're doing it, next year, they're gonna want to be involved. So awesome.

Marketing Realities And Growth Plans

SPEAKER_05 57:55

All right. So if you guys want to, if you guys want to take off, I'll finish this up and we'll go from there.

SPEAKER_01 58:03

Thank you for having me. I appreciate

Wrap Up, Safety Notes, And Subscribing

SPEAKER_01 58:05

it. Uh anytime anytime you guys want to come down, or I'll I'll come back on. We'll talk more about our stuff.

SPEAKER_05 58:10

So I will be taking you up on that. I can't wait.

SPEAKER_01 58:13

We got a ri we got a ride coming up that is just outrageous. So next next time needs to be live there.

SPEAKER_02 58:21

So we'll we'll come there and do the podcast. Awesome.

SPEAKER_05 58:24

Sounds great. All right.

unknown 58:26

All right.

SPEAKER_05 58:27

See you guys. All right. Thank you. Good night. All right, guys. It's just me, and I'm gonna finish up here. Thanks everybody for watching. It doesn't even look like too many people on Facebook are still there. So I will finish this up. www.scotchybourbonboys.com. For all things, Scotchy Bourbon Boys, remember Glenn Cairns, t-shirts. Check us out. You can contact me direct also. I will agree with Frazy. I want to say that it is the 27th cast strength is smooth and high proof. It's it's a nice pour. And remember, you can find us on Instagram, YouTube, and Facebook and X, along with iHeart, Spotify, and Apple. Make sure whether you listen to us or you watch us to become a member, subscribe, leave good feedback, all that stuff. Super chats are always good. And then remember, good bourbon equals good times and good friends. Make sure you don't drink and drive, drink responsibly, and live your life uncut and unfiltered. Next week, look for us on the audio and maybe alive, but I will be on vacation. So we've got a couple to fill in that I'll load up on the audio end. And then on the we'll be back the following week. With that week, we're we're booked with two guests also. So AI will take us out. There we go. That wasn't right.