Living Lean

Navigating Injuries: Understanding Prevention, Management and Recovery for Continued Progress

• Jeremiah Bair • Episode 457

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As physique development enthusiasts, we know how deeply frustrating it can be to balance our passion with the reality of physical setbacks. In this conversation with Coach Natalie, we share personal histories of navigating these challenges. This is a conversation about embracing the reality of pain and discomfort, about understanding the difference between the two, and about persevering through them without losing sight of our goals.

We all know that an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. But have you ever wondered what that actually looks like in a training context? It turns out, injury prevention isn't just about knowing your limits or avoiding risky moves. It's about understanding the intricate biomechanics of your body, about setting up your movements correctly, and about forging an intimate connection between your nutrition and training plans. We also get into the nitty-gritty of proper warm-ups and how a something as simple as incline walking can prime your body for the rigors of training.

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Speaker 1:

Hey team, welcome back to the show. Today I am joined by coach Natalie to talk through a pretty relevant topic to, I think, a lot of listeners and something we've all dealt with quite frequently and something we chat through with clients quite a bit as well, and that is dealing with injuries, training around injuries. Basically, how do we work around injuries without letting it really derail us from our goals? I think this is such an important topic because it is something for so many people that just can completely derail their physique progress, and the reality is it is something that happens from time to time for many of us.

Speaker 1:

I don't want to say it's inevitable, but a part of pushing your body and challenging yourself consistently is little aches, pains, things like that will pop up from time to time, and I really think the mindset and a proper approach to this is incredibly important. So I'm really glad we're digging into this. This is, of course, we're not physiotherapists physiotherapists anything of the sort, so this isn't medical advice, but just some good general advice to work around these things. Before we get into it, natalie, anything you want to kick this podcast off with A high-level intro thoughts?

Speaker 2:

Yeah, so I thought this topic was important because you touched on it's. I hate saying it, but it's almost inevitable. When you engage in any sort of physical activity like sport, resistance, training, anything you really do assume a level of risk. It's just an inherent risk that we absolutely have to accept. But then I would also counter that by saying you also assume a level of risk when you leave your house. You could step off the curb and twist your ankle or something like that. So there's nothing in this life is without risk and so that's not a reason to not engage in things like sports or weightlifting or anything like that. So we have to understand it's kind of part of the deal.

Speaker 1:

And I think that most of the like clinical injuries that we experience with clients as well, it almost is always from something like that, Like I did something at work and now I'm having issues when I'm trying to bench, press or hinge or whatever it is.

Speaker 1:

But it definitely carries over and that's such a good point as well.

Speaker 1:

I think that, like the being weak and like not being strong through these different ranges of motion is likely going to lead to just to again like provide some context there, like us being like very weak in that hinge pattern because we train it, because we don't want to get hurt. Ironically, like you're probably a lot more likely to be injured than if we are like in our self-extremely strong through those ranges of motion. Right, Our body is going to be more antifragile if we are training through all these different ranges. So I think that's an important caveat to kind of throw that out there as well. Yeah, let's really kind of dig into what to do and how to handle it from kind of a practical logistics standpoint as well as mentally and emotionally. And I really think like that mental and emotional at least from my own personal experiences with this and working with clients, I think that mental and emotional side of it is so important. So to kick us off, you want to talk us through kind of your own history with injuries.

Speaker 2:

Yeah Well, first and foremost, I think we have to agree to touch on or piggyback off of what you said. Training is a net, positive right.

Speaker 1:

Absolutely.

Speaker 2:

We can agree there that it is not a reason like not to train. And, like you said, I think the net positive aspect is you likely are just going to be better off, you know, working through these ranges of motion and getting stronger. So yeah, I have a CrossFit background, so enough said there. But, jokes aside, a whole host of injuries really, some are nagging than others.

Speaker 2:

Both of my shoulders have had problems, like my right shoulder, you know, when Jim's opened up post COVID, you know I had been training like the entire time but mainly with, you know, dumbbells like slow tempos and whatnot. And then Jim's opened up and you know I went ham on the barbell, you know, and all the stuff I've been missing out on, like fast, explosive movements, so things I hadn't been training right, and I really did my right shoulder and that took me about like a year and a half to rehab. That's probably like the most significant thing I've been through injury wise. I worked with a really wonderful physical therapist over in Dubai and like he remotely rehabbed my shoulder like over a long period of time. So that was the big one On the left shoulder. It was this past summer after our last team meetup, you know. Just really, you know, we were just really sending it that week.

Speaker 1:

We were really training that week.

Speaker 2:

I pretty much. So that was July and I pretty much kind of just got through that one. So that was worth it. And then, most recently and I've been posting about this on my stories a little bit but I had a strained intercostal, just like that muscle, that kind of like wraps around the rib cage, you know it can kind of mask as like rib pain and I was like at first, you know, I was like, did I, you know, did I like injure a rib or something? But that was so annoying because there's not a lot you can do without feeling that one. Because if you think about, like all the bracing that you have to do when you lift, specifically you know, things like lower body, compound movements, right Like it, just I felt it. I would feel it like when I was sleeping too, like twisting, turning, getting up out of bed, it was, and I am just now coming out of that one. So that was really the most recent. But what about you?

Speaker 1:

Yeah, so you're definitely well versed in those things. And for me I would say the two biggest were my left shoulder. So I separated my AC when I was snowboarding so basically my like shoulder socket isn't like connected to my collarbone anymore. That one took really like I think about two and a half years, honestly, before it felt like back to normal. But that was.

Speaker 1:

That was a very hard one for me because I had to completely change the way that I trained. Like it was very much before that I would do a ton of barbell pressing. That was like my favorite thing. When I say my favorite thing in the world, that was like actually my favorite thing in the world to do, specifically like a flat barbell bench press, and that that's still a movement that I can't do anymore. But it took me a very long time, like mentally. Like mentally and emotionally. I think it was the hardest thing to accept. Like I'm going to have to completely change and this is something we'll touch on later but like accepting that I would completely have to change the way I train and like looking for other forms of progress outside of just like how much can I barbell bench now, like that was.

Speaker 1:

That was a very hard one for me. But again, that took. That took a long time, again several years before. It was like not something I think, like most anytime I was pressing, I was like giving me some type of pain and I probably could have been a lot smarter with the way it rehabbed it, because it was just like a couple weeks of PT and then I just went and did my own thing and then my back actually around the same time I just again I didn't know very much about like programming at the time, but I was doing a super set of deadlifts and rackpoles, which doesn't make any sense to me at all, but just something in my back pop and really it was like I don't know exactly what it was, but I know that like the issue was really stemming from at the time I really didn't know how to brace properly and again, like that also, both of them taught me so much around like proper positioning specifically for that, like positioning of your rib cage and your pelvis, and again, like how to brace and train for pelvic stability and things of that nature.

Speaker 1:

But yeah, those were my two biggest ones, but I would say both of them like so very similarly before that, with like my, with my, like all my lower body training was like barbell, back squats and similar movements, and that and again that really forced me to change the way I trained and like learn more and think deeper into how it was training. But those were the two biggest for me and I I'm very fortunate. Honestly, I'm so glad that both of those happened because I think, like shoulder, shoulder issues, back issues I would say knee issues, which I haven't had, but shoulder issues and back issues are so common for most people and it really taught me so much to like in the future, be able to help clients. But those are my two biggest.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, I didn't know about the back, I didn't know about your shoulder.

Speaker 2:

It's so horrible, but shoulders are so annoying they really can be. It's all annoying, quite frankly, but that's kind of why we're here to talk about it, right? So you know, first, you know when an injury happens, the first thing you know we were going to ask, like, let's pretend that we're having this discussion with a client, for example, the first thing we're going to ask is is it something like acute or chronic? You know, is this, was there an event? I always ask this, yeah, and by event I mean, like you know, I'll say was there a snap, crackle pop? You know, did something snap, did you feel something Versus something that maybe might have been brewing for a little while, like a little nagging, like, oh, like this has kind of been bothering me, but I've maybe been ignoring it and it's kind of coming up, that's you know.

Speaker 2:

So it's something that kind of develops slowly over time. And then you know, from there we're also going to ask, like, of course you know, hey, what was the movement? If it was acute or if it's been kind of brewing over time, we're going to ask like, hey, what are all of the movements that bother it? Like everything you know, gym as well as life, so those are kind of just important to come to terms with there. And then I think another big part of this conversation that I'll have a lot and this happens with, you know, a lot of folks who are newer to training is you know, hey, is this actual pain that we're talking about here Assuming this wasn't acute, by the way, like so nothing happened? This is more like some kind of mysterious nagging pain. So is this actual pain, or might you be feeling something like discomfort or sensation, sensitivity or instability?

Speaker 2:

Because, the reality is is with, you know, and you know we're pretty much just talking about, like, weightlifting, you know, resistance training today, but when it comes to those things, you know, we're in a lot of positions that really aren't comfortable and we're asking a lot of our clients in terms of, like you know how to push themselves, and so I think there's a lot of confusion sometimes and crossover between, like, what's an appropriate amount of discomfort you know, like what is maybe instability or, you know, or pain.

Speaker 1:

Right, yeah, I couldn't agree more and I think, like a lot of, even if you were doing like I think a seated like curl is a good example of this for a lot of people like be stretch, you get under hamstrings at the top of the movement. That's something I have a conversation with a lot of people where it can feel like kind of uncomfortable and it's not like it's not necessarily a good feeling, like when your hamstrings are very stretched, similar like a stiff, like a deadlift. It's again like it's. It's a weird. Again it feels almost more like a pain, but that's again like being able to distinguish between the two I think is so important.

Speaker 1:

I also really like the like is this something that's acute or chronic? Again, I asked the exact same thing like can you identify? Like what's our specific moment when this happened? Like, did this happen in a specific movement or has this something been, something that's kind of slowly been building up? Again, if it's like, there's like that snap crackle pop, that's almost always where it's like a scenario where and I don't want to get ahead of myself here, but we are probably going to want to go get this checked out and we probably need to lay off it entirely, whereas when it is more so, a chronic thing that's slowly been building over time. I think that's when we more need to dig into other factors, like your setup, your technique and other variables, where those are typically things that are pretty easy to work around, versus we just need to give this area, like whatever that is, rest for a long period of time.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, correct, yeah, and we'll add that disclaimer right here, like if there is a snap, crackle, pop, some sort of event, like please just stop what you're doing. Yeah absolutely and assess, reach out to your coach. You're going to. You know, nothing bad is going to happen if you lay off that movement for the rest of the day. So another.

Speaker 1:

I think I'm so sorry.

Speaker 1:

I think that's one other good point, though.

Speaker 1:

Like one thing that has been very beneficial to me in my training career as things have gone on is being okay with like there will still be times if I'm doing like RdLs and it's like my back like maybe I didn't feel like an actual pop, but I can tell like this doesn't feel good and it's like I could do like my last one or two sets of RdLs, but like what's the risk of a reward versus that? I know if I like, I'll probably if I maybe I'm like move on to my leg press and that feels okay and I'm good to push that. Or maybe it is just like I'm just going to call the session here and live the fight another day. Versus in the past there have been so many times where it's like it doesn't feel good but like I got to finish this session right, I got to keep pushing and then it's okay. Now it's two weeks before I can actually train this hard because I exacerbated the issue, but I'm sorry for interrupting. I think those are some important point to make.

Speaker 2:

No, you're right and I think. But I also think that self regulation is something that really comes with training, age and experience, you know, and also just knowing your body. You know I with previous with any injury, you know we carry a certain amount of like trauma with us. That, you know, like post traumatic stress really. You know where it takes a very long time mentally to come back that injury and so we're always like hyper sensitive to those movements you know, because we had a traumatic past, you know.

Speaker 2:

So it's like we, it's almost like we have an extra set of eyes on that movement and we're just like hyper aware of like anything that might be feeling the slightest bit off. But you know, I feel like we're spending a lot of time talking about, like the RDL and whatnot, but I think that's that's a great one to talk about because you know, you reminded me of something where you know we're talking about pain, discomfort, sensation and stability, things like that. You know, a lot of times we'll get, you know, clients who are like no, this, like this, hurts my back and we really have to talk through that. Because you know, for someone who is newer to training or like newer to the RDL, for the Romanian deadlift, for example, we are still working your spinal erectors.

Speaker 1:

Right.

Speaker 2:

You know like they're and so if you have weak erectors now with you know, with a hinge movement we're hoping to really kind of tax the glutes and the hams, but your erectors are very much involved. So a lot of times you know this is something I talked through a lot is like okay, are we actually experiencing you know, back lower back pain or are we really just like feeling those erectors like moving and we need to get them stronger?

Speaker 1:

Because that tissue, I mean that your erectors, will be working a lot.

Speaker 1:

So again, basically, think your lower back muscles they're going to like run on each side of your spine, like in your lower back. They'll be working a lot, they'll be working very hard to stabilize and especially if those muscles are weak, as you said, they're going to be extremely tight after that. But again, that's not necessarily a bad thing. Or if you get like a lower back pump, that is also that's something as well that feels pretty uncomfortable.

Speaker 1:

You feel like your lower back is just pretty tight, but again it might not necessarily be like a quote unquote bad pain. It might just be like, hey, we have to work through it for a couple of sessions and as I get stronger we'll notice it being less than less of an issue. But I think that's a great point as well, because I see is I work through the same thing a lot of times with RDLs, where it's like I feel my lower back working and people think that's a bad thing, like I should never feel my lower back, and I see it like, no, it's part of the movement, it's okay. We want that to get stronger too. We don't want it to just be like a purely lower back movement, but it's okay if we feel that working again, as long as we can identify what type of pain that is.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, I think that's a good example of feeling a sensation, because if you're new to the RDL or you've really never pushed it that hard, then you don't know what it feels like to use your erectors in that way. That's just like a new feeling. So it's going to feel foreign and unfamiliar. Okay, so the next thing we're like tangenting all over the place, which is okay, there's a lot to talk about. So the next thing I usually work through with a client, because at this point the injuries happened. So we're trying to assess like, hey, what was it? How did it happen? What movements caused this pain?

Speaker 2:

So the next thing I'll ask is is this then disruptive to your daily life? So is this like a trading specific thing? Like, hey, my knees are totally fine until I step foot in the gym and try to do a leg extension, but no, I can climb stairs, I can go up and down, we're all good there. So it's like, okay, cool, so then we'll kind of work through that. But then sometimes we'll find, let's say, I have a client right now actually, who's dealing with a shoulder injury and it got to the point where it was disrupting her sleep.

Speaker 2:

A lot of people are sleeping with their arm, under their head or under their pillow or something, and so obviously she's not going to be able to train through that, but it's starting to affect daily life, like she has trouble reaching for things in the kitchen or sleeping. So that's something we'll talk through as well, and then, beyond that, we're also going to ask questions like, of course, if you have a video, we want to see it. This is a big thing too is when someone's like hey, this really hurts when I do this. It's like Do you have a video?

Speaker 1:

No yeah.

Speaker 2:

It's like I need to see something before I can start to troubleshoot, but because from there we would obviously want to assess your setup and technique, or maybe something in your biomechanics like the way that you are built.

Speaker 2:

Is this movement suitable for you or do we need to find another one? Do we need to optimize this better for you and the way that you're built? And then from there we're also going to kind of dig into some of the recovery aspects because, honestly, injuries can happen a lot when we're under recovered right. So lack of sleep, poor nutrition, high stress, like all of those things can contribute to just being generally under recovered and leaving you more prone to injury. So, looking into your sleep, your nutrition, your training frequency and volume, are you doing an appropriate amount for you and your life?

Speaker 1:

I think those are both huge ones and what I'll say is, most of the so, to kind of rewind it to, is it destructive to your daily life, does it affect your sleep and does it affect your ability to do your job. Those are almost always, I would say, things that stem from a snack crackle pop generally and those are again something where, for me personally, at least, that's when I would like, hey, we want to see a physiotherapist about this. Again, that's something like that actually happening in training is incredibly rare. I think that, again, more often than not it's something that happens outside of this in day-to-day life. People just kind of try to work through it. I can't really think of any client examples where I've actually had something like that happen, but again, I know for me personally in my own training that's definitely happened. But I would say most of what we're working through is typically like a I have pain with this movement and almost always I think better understanding like setup and biomechanics is one of the biggest things for most everyone. And that's again I always tell people hey, if this doesn't feel good before, we just like, okay, we're going to scratch this and move on to a different movement. There's probably something with, again, the way we're setting this up. So, for example, like with a leg extension, for so many people it is just like we want your knee joint to be lined up with the pivot point of the machine right, the pivot point of that lever arm for the leg, and for so many people they'll be like setting up the seat super-horror. Their legs are in front of that, so we don't have things lined up properly and that will often create some knee pain right. So if we can just fix that, then it's a pretty easy fix. And similarly, even with like a lot of shoulder issues, like for a lot of people, just us being in the very fixed range of motion that the barbell causes us, versus if we're using like dumbbells or cables or even a lot of machines, like a more semi-neutral grip for a lot of people will allow us to be in a position where our shoulders are a little bit more stable and we can press without pain, right.

Speaker 1:

But there are some I think, like for me it's interesting to think about and this also really does I won't get ahead of myself here. It's like for me personally. I know, especially when I was training lower body, I used to like always be like something was hurting, right, if it wasn't my lower back that was hurting, it was like my TFL that was hurting, for example, and it's crazy, as I've learned more and more about biomechanics and just how to set things up properly, how all of that has just disappeared. I'm older now than I was, but still it's like my lower body training actually just feels so much more stimulative and it's just like the tissue is working rather than just like okay, well, if it's on my lower back that hurts, then it's like my TFL or whatever. It is right. It's interesting how much that's changed.

Speaker 1:

But I found the same thing for most people and I think this is a very important point. I think like because what I see is so many people start and it's like well, I have to do like this. I have to like roll out this muscle group for 10 minutes on the foam roller before I do any type of squatting pattern, or else this really hurts my again. This might hurt my TFL. Or I can't think of like the muscle that I'm trying to think of right now On the side of your leg like runs down the side of your leg, yes, your IT band. Or like this bothers my IT band or whatever it is, and for so many people it is either a like hey, we're not using a load that is actually appropriate for you, and if we actually train this through a better range of motion, with more control, reach your setup, this would actually be so much more stimulative and less painful.

Speaker 1:

So really I think, like for most people and that's really the value of the execution videos as well, as they allow us to dig so much deeper into that but then finally, again I think that when people are just crushing themselves and they're training and they don't have the capacity to recover from it, that's another great point. People think that training and nutrition are just two separate silos. But if you're like deep in a deficit and you're just crushing yourself with a very high volume training program, that you just don't have the ability to recover from sleep isn't good. Our ability to actually repair those tissues and recover from what we're doing is so much less and things like that are more likely to happen. So again, like being smart, using an inappropriate amount of volume is so important as well. That's what I have on that. Anything to add there?

Speaker 2:

No, just that, it's a good time to also bring up you know we're talking about setup execution bringing up things like warming up properly and also exercise order, because when you were talking about the leg extensions in particular. Something that's really common is kind of putting people in those lengthened quad setups like a hack or like Heel Elevated Smith or something like that, and their ease might get a little like twingey and they're like this isn't right.

Speaker 2:

So oftentimes we'll just have them warm up with something like a leg curl or a leg extension, something to like warm up knee flexion, and you know, of course, like we're also talking very like proper warm ups and whatnot, and oftentimes like that clears it up.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, and that is I really like that for anyone who has like achy knees especially, whatever tissue we're trying to train. Like training in the short range first, first, like there's there's a lot of debate about this like should we go I think this is a completely different topic that we do with deep depth Like should we train something in the short range or the length and length range first? But I mean, like there's an argument for hyperfee, like we will get better output out of that length and movement, like the fall off that we see going from short and length and as much less than when we're going length and a shortened so within that it could make more sense from that, from that perspective, but also just warming up the joint, training the joint. Like loading the joint through a range of motion, but loading it less than you would be with like your. So again, like, if we're talking about like should I do my hax wads or my leg extensions first, that's a situation where, again, probably would do a leg extension first.

Speaker 1:

Again, we're going to train that joint through a full range of motion. We're going to bring a lot of blood flow to the area, which will be beneficial, and then again going into, but in this will also slightly reduce the load, potentially slightly reduce the load that we need to use in that next movement and that length and movement, but we can still get the same stimulus from it. Right, it'll still be able to achieve that proximity to failure, which is the most important thing. So that's like with I really like I almost always if I'm going to have a client do a leg curl pattern, similarly, I'll almost always program that before we're going to be doing any type of squat pattern. Similarly, I just find that people feel so much better having done that.

Speaker 1:

And again, like the, your hamstring is really going to help stabilize, especially that like distal attachment of the hamstring, so like basically where it attaches around your knee. That is going to play a big role in stabilizing the knee joint. So, like us, training that first can also be very beneficial. I kind of just repeated what you said there. Anything else to add to that?

Speaker 2:

No, I think, like I mean I think pretty much every program I've written recently has like a leg curl.

Speaker 1:

variation first, yeah, like almost always how I start my lower body days as well, for clients and myself.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, and it's, like you know, and even sometimes like the leg extension, like you know, can be helpful to. It's usually a leg curl, though, that I like yeah.

Speaker 1:

I would say I almost always. The leg extension is a more hit or miss for me, whether I'll program at first or before or after, but leg curl is like almost always before.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, agreed, okay, so you know. Then you know, people always ask me like or they'll tell me like oh, don't worry, I'm icing it.

Speaker 2:

You know like it hurts and I'm icing it and this is something that you know. Again, like there's there are a lot of different kind of views out there, but what I've read recently and if someone's listening to this and wants to, you know counter like I would. I would very much love to have that discussion just for my own education. But from the things that I have been reading and I've definitely seen some studies on this icing, you know basically when, when an injury happens, you're inflamed, right, like that's inflammation, right and kind of taught to think like inflammation is bad.

Speaker 2:

It is a bad thing, but it's also part of the healing process.

Speaker 1:

Right.

Speaker 2:

So oftentimes icing can actually blunt the healing process. So it's basically, you know that's what it's doing. It's kind of reducing inflammation and we kind of kind of want that inflammation because we want to kickstart that healing process. So icing is just not necessarily always. You know, that whole like rice movement has kind of like been refuted like rice ice compression elevation right, remember that. Are you too young?

Speaker 1:

No, no, I do remember that. Yeah, I think they taught that in the ACSM, like personal training sort of that I got.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, I think it's a bit outdated.

Speaker 1:

But I mean like icing in and say it's so like we're going to take some ibuprofen, for example, both of those things, I think. If it's a chronic thing, that's again I think like looking at the like was it that snap crackle pop? Where it's like, hey, our goal is just like this is a more serious injury and our goal is just I'm in a lot of pain right now and I want to alleviate that. I think that's where like, yes, icing it will reduce the inflammation or taking some ibuprofen will reduce inflammation. But if it's a chronic thing and it's like, okay, my solution to try to take care of my knees the like are constantly killing me after every time I train is I'm going to take some ibuprofen or I'm going to like I sit where again, not actually addressing the root of the issue.

Speaker 1:

And also I mean like from a muscle growth perspective, like taking ibuprofen, like reducing, as you said, that that inflammation is part of the healing process that will blow muscle growth. The same thing for, like the cold plunges and like all the research on that and how that's can be detrimental muscle growth as well After we're training, like we don't want to just hop on a cold plunge. That might be for most people splitting hairs to an extent, but again, if it's like my solution to deal with this more chronic thing that have going on as I'm going to ice it or I'm going to again just take ibuprofen, it's not a very good solution at all and we're not actually addressing the root of the issue. Yes, it might give you some relief, but it's not actually going to solve it Right.

Speaker 1:

What do you think about? Sorry, go ahead.

Speaker 2:

What was the issue I really have with like the ibuprofen?

Speaker 2:

And again, you know, if this is one thing where like it is disrupting your quality of life and like you cannot function I mean that's you know first of all, you should probably get that dealt with, see someone. But at the same time, what I often see with ibuprofen is that it, you know, it, masks the pain and the discomfort. And so, you know, in something more chronic and I used to see this a lot like coaching, crossfit or you know, people are kind of like riddled with you know little things here and there.

Speaker 1:

Right.

Speaker 2:

But you know, when you're like masking something like that it's oftentimes you kind of are tricked into thinking like, oh well, like actually I feel okay, so I'm going to, you know, I'm going to keep moving, right Kind of thing. People will like keep training on it and actually like it's, it's not improved at all, you're just masking it. So there hasn't been like any actual recovery that has taken place.

Speaker 2:

So that's really my biggest problem there, and so like, please understand, I'm not like to everyone out there. I'm not saying like never, ever, ever take ibuprofen. Like I'm not saying that.

Speaker 1:

I think one other important point that we kind of skimmed over with all of this. So to kind of tie into the like I would say them like, because again, for a lot of people it is like a chronic thing, again the proper setup and execution is very important. And then properly like warming up before you actually go into your training I think is another big thing. That is something where, like for the longest time I just assumed everyone knew how to like, hey, we're going to do a couple of ramp upsets, so we naturally program that, and more and more I've seen like so many people just jump right into like, okay, this is my working set and that's where really again like that's a big part of why I like to program things like that leg curl first, where it's kind of foolproof to no matter what that teaches going to be warmed up. But for, like any of you are like squat, hinge, lunge, push, pull, especially if it's like your first movement, that falls into one of those categories for the day actually training, like taking some time to maybe we're going to start with like 50% of the low that we would use for that movement and do something like six to 10 reps with it.

Speaker 1:

Go through that range of motion, be intentional with it. Rest for a bit. Maybe we're going to bump that load up by 10 to 20%. Do just like four to six reps. Bump it up by 10 to 20% Again. Do something like two to four reps and I typically like to do just like one rep with you and my working weight. Just one rep again.

Speaker 1:

Get my nervous system acclimated to that. So again we're taking our joints through that exact range of motion where we're getting our body used to that load. Our body temperature is going to be increasing if this is like our first movement of the day and then again our nervous system is also going to be acclimated to that. But just taking the time to actually work through like some ramp up sets before you get into your actual work sets and again like this doesn't have to be anything crazy, like that only takes a couple minutes to do. But I think that for people is again oftentimes just skipping. That is a huge reason why people have like this chronic, like my knees ache whenever I do like a squat pattern. It's just not taking the time to do that properly. I kind of off topic again, but I think that's important to put out there as well.

Speaker 2:

What about? What are your thoughts? And I mean, I actually know the answer, but what are your thoughts on the warmup? Like before the warmup sets, kind of thing? Like when you first hit the gym you know it's 5am, what are you? What are you doing to prime your body?

Speaker 1:

I personally do like to just like do an incline walk for five to 10 minutes. Again, just raise your heart rate, raise your body temperature of it. I personally like just like five to 10 minutes of incline walking. I will typically because my cardio isn't anything too intense, and again, with my like maintenance dose, I will do like 15 to 20 minutes of cardio a day. That's just incline walking and honestly, I like to typically just boss that out before I get in my training because I'm like 120, my heart is at like 120 beats per minute, so I could still like hold the conversation there. It's nothing too taxing, it doesn't take away from my performance, but I get my cardio done and it also helps me warm up for that and I definitely feel better within that. But I again like things just going into a cold, I for sure, especially if it's like I'm training at 5am. That's absolutely good idea as well. Again, it doesn't have to be anything crazy, but just like five minutes there can be extremely helpful.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, I really like just like a 10 minute walk on the treadmill and I'll start out like because I train early in the morning like first thing, so I haven't really been up and moving for that long and I drive to the gym. So like, if I walk to the gym, that might be a different conversation, but I really like like it just a 10 minutes where I'm like kind of slowly ramping up the pace. I don't get too crazy, but just to warm up the body and also it really like helps get my mind right. You know ahead of training.

Speaker 2:

It just kind of brings the focus in and that's a really big part of training that has carry over into like execution as well is like making sure your mind is you know, so that really kind of sorts me out.

Speaker 2:

And then you know, given all of the injuries that I have struggled with, I do have some things that I do to prime my body that are very specific to me. So it's not necessarily something I would prescribe to like every client or anything, but you know, I really like to kind of like open up my T spine and make sure that things are like moving there and because of my like my shoulders, like I do a lot of like stuff with like a skinny band, you know some like banded retractions and like various pull-aparts and external internal rotations and things like that.

Speaker 2:

But that's generally yeah, like, but those are again very specific to me. So you know, if you're someone out there and you're, you know you have like nagging injuries or things that just kind of like tend to crop up. You know, I hope that you have some sort of kind of maintenance that you're incorporating.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, there's not. I know this is debated and this is. I don't usually like things where it's just like we're talking about earlier. I don't really like in our group chat. I don't really like things where it's just anecdote.

Speaker 1:

But I do think that for most people, if we can look at what is the okay, what's the joint that is giving us issues, and again, what's the supportive like, what are kind of the supportive tissues and muscle groups around that.

Speaker 1:

So, like in that case, we're talking about your shoulders. So what might be pressing is actually what gives you the issues. But you're talking about doing things like band pull-aparts, right? So hey, if we're bringing some blood flow to our rear delts, our upper back, our rotator cuffs, those stabilizing tissues, that's the exact same reason why, again, like we were talking about hamstrings before, we're doing something like a quaddominous squat, bringing blood flow to those tissues is oftentimes going to help a lot. Or, like with your elbows, even if we're doing like banded tricep push downs and like band bicep curls, for example, and again just bringing some blood flow to the area, that's typically helpful and just making the movement feel better, the joint feeling better as we're moving it. Yeah Cool, do you want to get into then any thoughts around like so what can we do as far as training around an injury?

Speaker 2:

Yeah, well, now this depends on what the injury is, of course, if it's like actually low back is a good example, because this is so common. But your low back affects a lot of things, right, like most lower body that you're doing. But one thing I like to say with the low back is, like, depending on how severe it is, one of the worst things you can do is stop moving. And that's definitely people's first instinct, right, like, oh, threw my back out, or like I didn't. They just like want to like lie on the couch or something. And so generally, I'll encourage people to like keep moving, gently, of course, in ways that don't exacerbate the situation. But even sometimes, like I love a Jefferson girl, like I love them so much, like I describe this all the time but even within that like so let's take the back injury. You know, hey, you could. Honestly, you could probably still do like a seated leg extension.

Speaker 1:

Right.

Speaker 2:

Right. So, like thinking about the things, whatever you injured, there's likely something else you could still train. So that's number one. Like it's pretty rare that something is so bad that it completely takes you out of the game, right, and I think that's.

Speaker 1:

Are you okay if we talk about the mindset of things right now?

Speaker 2:

Yeah, I think I mean that's really the biggest thing I think you know I wanted to get into around injuries, so do it.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, for me again, like this was like the biggest thing that I had to learn with my shoulder, and that was it was a huge step back for me because I let it be and this is something that I talk through with clients a lot, because it is so and I see this over and over and this is exactly where I was. It was I hurt my shoulder. Then it was like, okay, it's probably going to be like six to eight weeks before you're recovered. And I didn't understand at the time where recovery was. I thought recovery was like I would just be back to normal, right. So I went through like my six to eight weeks of PT and it was like I should feel good and then I just like went and tried to bench press 315 again. It's like I can't, it hurts so bad, I can't do this.

Speaker 1:

And then for me it was just I'm so frustrated because of things that I was doing before I can't do anymore and that's so frustrating me. I feel like I've lost all my progress because of that and I would just leave the gym, right, and that for literally for like a year. That's where it was. I would just go to the gym for like 10, 15 minutes and be frustrated and just sleep. So it finally took for me to shift into the mindset of okay, as you said, what can I do and what I?

Speaker 1:

So for me it was like understanding okay, so an incline press maybe I focused mostly on my flat pressing, but now maybe my like how I'm, what I'm focusing on instead is my incline press. I can do that pain free. It still feels good for me. That might not have been like my favorite movement before, but now, like this is a very significant movement for me and I can still progress this. Whereas you said, with like your lower body training, it's very rare that we can at least do something extremely stable like a leg extension, a leg curl, and still at least get enough stimulus to maintain that tissue. Or even if you have like a lower body injury, like I don't know you broker foot or something of a sort, where we can use our lower body at all, we can still like use machines for upper body and things of that nature and still get a very good stimulus.

Speaker 1:

So you can still train at last, which is all that matters. It's really it's also a very interesting though, even like the research on, you know, in the, for example, like, if you can't train one arm but you train the other arm, you will still maintain more of the muscle tissue and that arm that you're not training, which is, doesn't. It's the craziest thing to me, but there's a lot of research, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2:

So, there's.

Speaker 1:

But I think again, like understanding, sometimes this might mean we have to pivot. As far as the movements that we're doing, there is always some form of progress on the table. My client, josh, is someone who comes to mind, who I just posted this year. It's what is. It's crazy what he's done. He's lost 60 pounds this year and this completely changes body.

Speaker 1:

But he had some shoulder issues from before we started working together that really, like the first couple of months were giving him a lot of trouble, and this is something we talked through a lot where, like, hey, man, I know right now, like our presses, they're just not something we could push very hard, but we can still do a lot for biceps, triceps, your back, your lower body. There are still these other areas. We can make progress and we can do enough at very least to maintain your chest and your delts right. And so if we can look at it as like but it is so easy to just give them that defeated mindset of like well, I can't like push hard, like this doesn't feel good, so kind of like I need to like it's again like. Kind of that like I got a flat tire so I'm going to like stab a hole in my other three tires versus. Where can we still continue to make progress? Because this is so important to look at.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, I think it's easy to hyper fixate on. You know, especially you. You touch on something really interesting with, like the 315 bench. You know, Because that's impressed by that. No.

Speaker 1:

I actually been 35 once, but okay, but who's counting?

Speaker 2:

But no, I mean, you touched on something really important there, because there clearly was some sort of like an emotional attachment to that. Oh yeah, For sure that was something that you like really enjoyed. There was probably a sense of pride there, you know.

Speaker 1:

That was like my whole identity at the time.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, it was your jam and like likewise, you know, coming back like my shoulder injury, like the one you know Post-covid, like when you know closer to like CrossFit stuff. You know, when I was, I was I mean that was a big reason I got into hypertrophy, right, because I was just like man, I this, I can't keep doing this like, can't keep hurting myself. But you know, I really had to come to terms with like, oh, I can't do this thing that I love and like this thing that I Kind of really let become part of my identity. You know that's. I think that's when it it gets really hard. You know, when you kind of it's like, well, now, what am I gonna do with myself? You know, and I think that's a big part of the mindset piece too is it's you know it's a, it's a time perspective Like, well, what am I gonna do with my day? Like I always work in the morning or whatever. And of course, like first thing you should look at is like, hey, does that mean you have to really stop working out?

Speaker 2:

like chances are there are other things you could do but also, I think, you know, on the more woo-woo side of things, it's, it's a really great sign from the universe, I think, to sort of explore your attachments To these things. Why, why is it that I am so upset, you know, about not being able to bench like, is this, this is truly the end of the world, you know? Is this truly the worst that could happen? Like, is there really nothing else I can do with my day or my time or my training? Yeah, I think, I think, you know, being forced to explore those attachments and things that we've kind of just become accustomed to leaning on, for whatever reason is is.

Speaker 1:

I think there's some value in that no, and I mean, when that happened, that is exactly where I was at. It was like I really don't like myself, but I was convinced that once I got jacked enough, I Would like myself and I would I like. That really thought that was the thing that I need to do. And it did force me to explore that and those exact questions like why is this such a big part of my identity? And is this actually like? Is this actually my Identity? And again realizing no, it's, it's not right in it. This doesn't actually define me, nor do I want it to, and again, like, forcing me to think a little bit deeper. It was like one of the best things that could have possibly happened to me, but that can be a hard thing.

Speaker 1:

I also think I See very frequently in situations like this, again from the like, saving a hole in your other three tires. When something like this happens, even if it is like, and it's an injury where it's so bad, we can't train for, like, let's say, a month, right, or maybe we got a surgery that's more frequent With like, whatever things come up with life and it's okay. So I'm going to completely Quit paying any mind. My nutrition as well, and that's one of the biggest mistakes I think we can make, also from both the mental health perspective. Your food is going to play such a big role and how you feel mentally, but also it is going to be such a big part of the recovery process. If we manage it well, right, it can speed up your recovery from that injury or it can slow it down.

Speaker 1:

But I think again, and like it's so easy to get night to feed his mindset and we just do really regress a lot more and again. Maybe it is because I think I understand about like losing muscle a month off the gym. Two months off the gym, you'll lose a little bit of muscle, but muscle memory is a very real thing that'll come back so quickly. If you take two months off the gym, by your first three to four weeks back, all the muscle you lost will be back. It's not a big deal. But we don't have to use that time to like okay, well, I'm just gonna like forget about my nutrition and like, maybe gain a lot of body fat again. I know, like with my shoulder that was very much what happened to me. Anything else to add on the mindset side of things.

Speaker 2:

Um, yeah, like you know, depending on really what you know, what's going on? Like my client, denise, comes to mind. You know she's been been struggling with a bit of a trap injury, shout out. Denise, by the way, just awesome lady, um, her dogs the year dogs are great.

Speaker 2:

But you know she, she has something going on with with her, with her trap, and she was getting these like kind of headaches right, and we, we went through all the troubleshooting and you know, initially it was, you know, I was like okay, we need to just back off, we need to just take time off. Um, and you know she's understandably really upset because, trust me, like I also get upset if I can't train. So I get it. Um, but you know this is one of those things where it's like, okay, well, again, at the risk of sounding woo, woo, right, the, you know, you know this is like telling us that we need to pause for a second, for whatever reason.

Speaker 2:

Um, is there anything else that we can do with this time, you know, and and this was a situation of like, hey, I need you to not train. This wasn't like what you know, we went through the what can you do? And, like you know, we weren't getting anywhere because it was still like causing pain, um. So we really had to go the route of, like I need you to take a little bit of time off, and so, hey, like, what else can you do at?

Speaker 1:

that time Right.

Speaker 2:

Like, are there any other like hobbies you can explore? Um, you know, maybe extra time with the, with the doggos, um, you know, in the fall weather outside, or something you know maybe. Um, we've been so big on journaling lately, like that came up, you know. But but really like, how can we use this time constructively? You know so that it doesn't it, you know. So that's a net positive. Like you're, you're not losing something, you're gaining something else. Yeah, I think that's a good point.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, I think again, like from that perspective, of course, like no matter what, it's going to be a bummer, yeah, but again I think of it a lot of time is we can use that time to dig into some other form of personal development, because I think for a lot of us again like it, this is kind of a formal personal development also, um, and that can be just as productive and again, it oftentimes might be exactly what you needed at the time.

Speaker 1:

Again, I know for me that was exactly what I needed and that was the best thing that could have happened for me. And I think, like, when someone is forced to take time off, if we're willing to look at it with a growth mindset, I think that's really a good summation of all of this. Almost always it can be something that you will look back on and like, wow, I grew so much during that time that forced me to grow so much during that time. But again, just looking at it as a whole with a growth mindset of this doesn't have to mean that I'm like Everything is lost and like I can't make any progress during this time. I just have to look at it a different avenue to make progress and again. This might be exactly what I need during this time. I think that's just so important.

Speaker 2:

Like you're not an athlete, you know you're you're no less than athlete like you know, People will come back. You will be back in the gym and you know that's a big part of it too is and I said this so many times to so many different people like trust me, you are going to look back on this and this is going to be like, but a blip on the radar, like this is.

Speaker 2:

This is not your story. This is a very small chapter that we're you know we're dealing with it, but I promise, like a year from now, it's like this is gonna be a flash in the pan.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, especially if you were a coach, if you are again willing to take the road mindset to it, it will be a blessing. It won't just be like something that wasn't a big deal. It will be a blessing to you because, again, all those things for me I know personally helped me so much better coach my clients and that was also again like me, hurting my shoulder was a big part of the reason that I gained a lot of weight and I had learned more about nutrition right, and there's so many things that wouldn't have happened if those things hadn't happened. That has sure the same thing with my clients all the time and we're working through like health phases and like the difficulty that comes with. But again, like it's, those are where people need the most help and if you're able to coach from a place of experience, you can help people so much more. So again, like a long term, it'll probably be not something that wasn't a big deal but something you're grateful for. Cool anything else to add before we wrap this up?

Speaker 2:

Yeah, I think you know we should be clear that. You know we are not physical therapists, which we said at first.

Speaker 1:

We are doctors. No, we're not doctors.

Speaker 2:

Yeah not at all. Um, but you know the physical therapy world is there for a reason and you know I will be very frank with clients when I think it's time for them to see someone, you know, and again, when something acute happens, like probably, but also something nagging that's coming up, I would, I would Worn or caution you. Now it's like if you kind of have that nagging injury that you're just like oh, it'll get better and it kind of never does, and you're training through it like might be a good time to see someone and get that addressed. I think one of the best things about seeing and now you also like need to try to find a good physical therapist, which in my experience is very difficult. But you know, I think one of the best things about seeing of physio is, first of all, you know, we mentally, we just really like to name things. We just like want to know what something is like if there's a name for it.

Speaker 2:

We're like, oh, now I know what that is, you know it's like somehow, like man, my shoulder feels funny. You know it doesn't really do it. But when someone's like, oh well, you have like an inflamed long-haired bicep tendon, you're like, oh, that's what it is, you know, like a torn rotator cuff. So I do think, like in your recovery process and I by recovery I mean physical and mental from this injury it does help, like knowing what something is. Otherwise, you're kind of just like in the dark with it. And then also they can often prescribe some kind of timeline.

Speaker 2:

You know like a second expectation like hey, buddy, like I don't think we're gonna be squatting for a while now, like you're not gonna see that 315 bench for a very long time you know, or like no, really, I think you know, if you do your homework, because that's what they're gonna do they're gonna give you a lot of homework like little warm-ups and exercises that feel like you're not doing anything, but you need to do them. But you know, hey, if you stick to the protocols and the plan and you're smart about it, you know we come back slowly. I really think, like give it six to eight weeks or whatever. That's really helpful mentally and emotionally, because you kind of just got a little bit of an expectation Other than just like I'm injured and I'm always gonna be injured and this is always gonna be a thing.

Speaker 2:

Yeah and then you know other times also, you know I'll, I'll tell a client like Denise was a good example when when we kind of like I dug a little bit deeper with what was going on with her trap, you know I was like, hey, I really think you need to go see like a body work practitioner, like I think you need to find like a really good um, you know massage therapists like like orthopedic massage is actually throughout she went. Or like myotherapy. You know someone who knows a thing or two, like I'm not talking about massage envy and like those places are, they have a time and a place and they are great. But like I'm talking about someone who maybe works with athletes, like sports massage or like bodybuilders.

Speaker 2:

You know who understands like what, that you're trying to be active again. You're not just trying to like lay down on a table and and and relax for an hour. Like you want to know, hey, why is this happening? You know and like, can you, can you give me any insight as to like why this is happening and how this is all connected? Um, and what you think this might is kind of thing, and like in Denise's example, um, she found someone very good Um, she likes that website.

Speaker 2:

We, like I was like yeah, looks legit, let's go. And she turned out to be wonderful and she had some great insights into what she thought was going on. Um, so, like you know that that can be a very synergistic relationship between, like coach and physical therapist, or like body work practitioner or chiropractor or something like that. Um, like, all of those relationships can work very synergistically to kind of like, get you back on the path. Um, so I just wanted to say, like you know, it's a good way to wrap this up, like, if you need to see someone, please go see someone, because chances are, like it will put your mind a little bit at rest, which is gonna take your stress down, which is a big part of it too, right? So don't be afraid to seek help.

Speaker 1:

No, I think that's a great point as well and, again, we're not doctors or physical therapists, so there is only also so, only so much we can do where, once we're past that point of working through where, assessing your setup, are we warming up properly? Is it within our recovery Do you need, or our recovery capacity and things of that nature we will need to refer out Um and also, like there are a lot of options, like it doesn't even have to be in person I know I hate going to appointments in person. I think we're all pretty similar there but there are lots of great options online as well. I might know we have someone who we refer some of our clients to, also where they can work online. You said you worked with somebody in Dubai Um, which was virtual as well. Right, so there are tons of good. Oh, it wasn't. Oh, it wasn't. No, you weren't in Dubai, you've lived all over the place. So I believe that for a second.

Speaker 1:

But Okay, yeah, he was excellent, like with living in Hong Kong, though, like I don't think that's a stretch to think that it could have been in Dubai as well.

Speaker 2:

Um, I got that contact from, uh, one of my Hong Kong coaches, so it's related. But yeah, like great point though it's like you know, it's, doesn't you know this is the age of social media and the internet. Like there are so many people that can help you know remotely if in person, for whatever reason, is just not an option, or like you can't find a good practitioner. Because that's what I run into more than anything is like finding someone who actually knows what they're doing and can help you.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, absolutely, and if nothing else, we're so alone with this reach out and we can potentially connect you with someone who might be able to help. Um, yeah, I think that's a great summary. Uh, it's a very difficult thing and I know a lot of people have had to work through this. Probably a lot of listeners, um, are working through things like this right now, so hopefully all of this was helpful. Um, anything else you want to add in before we close this up?

Speaker 2:

Nope, I think that does it.

Speaker 1:

Perfect, well as always. Thank you guys for tuning in and we will catch everyone next time.