The Customer's Seat: Chris Zizza on What 50 Grit Flooring Taught Him

Stephanie Owen and Chris Zizza discuss Chris' recent experience on the other side of the transaction...as a customer of Ohio-based wood flooring company 50 Grit Flooring. They're joined by Spencer Shatto from 50 Grit to talk about that experience, and what Chris learned about providing better customer service to his own customers by seeing things from the customer's perspective.

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Welcome back to the Real Answers Podcast, where we have some honest conversations about people, business, idea sharing in the industry. I'm Stephanie Oman, president and CEO of National Wood Flooring Association. And normally Chris Zizza is my co-host, but today we're flipping the script. A few months ago, Chris helped his daughter find a flooring contractor in her new home in Ohio. Oh, and Chris lives in Boston, obviously. So while he was there, he contracted with 50 Grit and kept coming back to me and texting me a few times. Like, man, I was really impressed with the way they do business. So today we're flipping the script. We're gonna actually interview Chris and Spencer from 50 Grit. So welcome, Chris and Spencer.

SPEAKER_02 0:46

Hey, Spence, what's going on? Uh hey, listen, guys, I'm in the back seat over here. Today I'm a consumer. So listen, here's the fun facts. And for for you, girl dads out there, you know the first thing you need to do is whatever they want because that's what that's what girl dads do. That's what all dads do, I suppose. So there we were setting up Emma and Hunter with hardwood floors in um Milford, Ohio, which is a Cincinnati area where Spencer and 50 Grit are all from. And so we had already previously met at NWF Bay. Is that the first place we met, Spencer?

SPEAKER_01 1:23

Yep.

SPEAKER_02 1:23

That's it. And we and so there I was at uh if I'm not mistaken, it might have been the new member reception.

SPEAKER_01 1:30

Yeah, it was. It was my my new member.

SPEAKER_02 1:34

Yeah, your your baptism into the NWFA. Okay, here you are on a podcast. Welcome. So anyway, I don't wanna I don't want to cloud the the airwaves here too too too much, but we met and I said, Do you guys work Ohio? We literally set up an appointment in that meeting for some time in May, and then I was to be in uh Cincinnati at that time, and that's what happened. We scheduled it and 50 grit scheduled reached out to me and said, Are we still on for Wednesday? And so let's take it from there. Where do you want to go with this stuff?

SPEAKER_00 2:10

Real real quick, I want to give our our listeners just a real quick snapshot because people, a lot of our listeners probably are not, they may not know the 50 grit name, but they know Josh Hansman's. Um, so that's their connection uh to a lot of our listeners to 50 grit. But Spencer, what's your role at 50 grit?

SPEAKER_01 2:29

My title is sales, but I do all the estimating. Um I meet customers in the showroom at their houses. Part of it is, you know, finding builders and general contractors for us to do more work with work with, um, and then sort of handling the communication, uh, not project management, but if anything comes up during any of our projects, I'm usually the one to go out and take care of it, assess what's going on, and figure out a solution kind of in the middle of the game. I can go in and have a little bit of flexibility to hop around and problem solve.

SPEAKER_00 3:04

That gives us some good context. How long have you been with Fit Pigrit?

SPEAKER_01 3:07

About a year now.

SPEAKER_00 3:08

Oh, still still pretty fresh. All right, awesome. So let's back up. Chris, you just alluded to a little bit about the project, but tell us a little bit more about the scope.

SPEAKER_02 3:18

Okay, so single-family home. They bought uh a flip house. Somebody had had purchased, remodeled it, and then sold it to uh my daughter Emma and uh her fiance hunter. And so, of course, I was never been more proud when you buy a house that's got LVT throughout every room. Sarcasm if you didn't recognize it. But uh, and so not only was it LVT everywhere, but it also squeaked like, oh my god, you would think the house was a hundred years old. The house is quite nice, actually, but it it was a squeak box, I mean, everywhere. And and and it didn't sit well that my daughter had an LVT. I mean, it I wanted hardwood. So we we set it up that it's a three-bedroom ranch with a lower level totally remodeled where the LVT actually did make sense down on the concrete and uh where they had already had moisture before. So Spencer came by to do, you know, I'm the homeowner, if you will, and he came by to do the measure, and we walked the property together, and just like any other walkthrough you'd go through. Um, you know, I've been doing them every day for 39 years. And what what I liked was first of all, 50 grit has a way of just, you know, we can do this, we can do that. There was no we don't do that. It was pretty much we do do that, and we will do that. Um I've been accused over the years of uh I had a builder who said my nickname was not a problem because no matter what he asked me to do, I always said not a problem. And and that's kind of the feeling I got when I was dealing with Spencer.

SPEAKER_00 5:04

Does your experience, or do you think, and this will be a quick question I can put to Spencer too, your experience in the flooring industry, owning your own business, made you a little bit of a tougher customer in this situation?

SPEAKER_02 5:18

You know, I'm not gonna say that I think I was a tougher customer, but I am.

SPEAKER_00 5:23

I said I'm gonna ask Spencer too.

SPEAKER_02 5:25

Yeah, so I have a feeling that Spencer might have had some marching orders kind of along the lines of don't F this one up. You know, because you can feel you could feel there was a thickness in the air, but um, but I quickly tried to defuse that because I didn't want somebody there just because you know of my relationship with NWFA. I needed a hardwood flooring company and there was a professional one in front of me. That was obvious. And we went through a normal sale. I mean, he didn't he didn't familiarize it and be like, well, I know you know this or anything. He just sold it like I really was a homeowner from measuring. Oh, well, we had uh of course I supplied the product, so there was already one box of it there, and so he got to view the box of it and it was uh engineered seven-inch Euro oak pre-finished almond color. So we reviewed that, and then he went about his business and and told us what was gonna have to happen. We talked about uh wood vents, which you guys matched really well, by the way. Um so yeah, it was going, Steph.

SPEAKER_00 6:40

Spencer. You're gonna be honest, this is what did it feel like it was a little tougher given somebody from the industry and that owns his own business?

SPEAKER_01 6:50

Honestly, I think part of that makes it easier because I had to do less explaining when you know I kind of was going through my normal routine of like, you know, we got to think about this, think about this, and Chris is like, Oh yeah, I know, I know. Like, you gotta worry about it. So it was kind of nice to have someone who already understood the process. There may have been a little from Josh being like, Don't f this up, but it didn't, it didn't feel like that when we were walking the project together now.

SPEAKER_02 7:21

I'll tell you, I do remember something that was kind of amusing, which was my daughter was there and she's like, I don't have to empty this closet completely, do I? And then Spencer would be like, Well, you know, and I go, Yes, you do. You have to empty it completely. So there was a little bit of that.

SPEAKER_00 7:38

That's good, that's great. So once you when you headed back to Boston, you know, in your your from your perspective, Chris, what were your biggest concerns about managing this for your daughter from a distance?

SPEAKER_02 7:52

Well, 100% the squeaks were definitely a problem. Because when when my wife and I would visit there, we sleep in the downstairs bedroom, and you know, anyone walking above us, that's all you heard were footsteps. And anyone who's ever lived in a two-family or a three-family or room above, you know what I'm talking about. Um, and it was annoying as hell. So I was crystal clear that when that they were doing demo, by the way. So when after demo, I said, you guys got to check on this. We're not gonna be here. Um, Emma and Hunter went away for a week, and we were in Florida at our fishing tournament together. So even I was away. It wasn't like I could fly in town and oversee this. We handed off an entry. You know, here's the entry code to get into the house. Do your job. And we were getting photographs in the middle, and one thing impressed me was this. There was um so some leveling that needed to happen around the kitchen island. We got a picture of it, it was already done. It didn't, I didn't get a phone call, and this is not a knock because it didn't bother me. It I didn't get a phone call saying, hey, you're we're gonna have to do some leveling around here and it's gonna cost this much money. It was pretty much done, just wanted you to know this this was needed, and we did it. Now, I don't know, Spence, is that because I I am in the business, or is that how you would have handled it for anybody? Because I know customers don't like surprises. I was surprised it was done and done right. So I was okay, I knew there was an extra coming, but I'm in the business. How's that go down with a homeowner?

SPEAKER_01 9:31

So I always explain to people that it's built in on my estimate. If we're tearing out and replacing or a new install, that there's always floor prep floor prep included in that. So that covers it, you know, because if you know, if you've ever seen a sub for you've seen that it's not level. So most times it's already built in, and I explain that. And then we just take care of it, but we find it inevitably.

SPEAKER_02 9:56

But I love that I got to see evidence of it being done. So all well and good there.

SPEAKER_00 10:02

Yeah, so that that's a follow-up question to you, Spencer. When you're working with a customer in particular, as he's not physically present and there's a distance between you and them, such as what happened between you and Ziz, does that change how you approach the project?

SPEAKER_01 10:19

Maybe a little bit, but not much, because we try to over-emphasize on communication. Because if you have someone in your house, whether it's someone you know, like Chris and I did a little bit, or a stranger, you know, you want to know what's going on. And so we'll even more emphasize that if they're not going to be there. But that that day-to-day updating is pretty the standard procedure for us. Try to at least once a day make contact with the customer and let them know where we are.

SPEAKER_02 10:49

Yeah, and you did because you know, there we were in Florida, and Emma and Hunter, they live there, not me. So a lot of the communications were running in that direction. I I did some follow-up, but for the most part, it was happening between you and my daughter, and of course, Hunter, who provided the dumpster. Um, because he is also a contractor. Back to your question, Steph, about you know, I'm getting on the plane, I'm going to Boston, and I'm hoping this is going to go down. Well, I got Floor Zap, and am I correct? That's your that's your software. So I got a Floor Zap email that said click here to open your estimate. I got uh I have it in front of me so I can talk about it, but I got one, two, three, four, you know, seven line items. Um, one of them, as Spence just pointed out, was floor prep, so it was in there. Uh, I was surprised you guys remove and replace um toilets and vanities as needed, and you bring in the plumber.

SPEAKER_01 11:49

So our our guys take them out, but we uh have a plumber subcontracted to to put them back in so they professionally install.

SPEAKER_02 11:57

Yeah, and I thought that was that was cool too, you know, and yeah, it's a number, but it's a carefree number being that it got done. I'm I'm being honest when I tell you, CNR4, and we don't do that. We say, oh, we know a plumber, we could we could get them over for you and and we'll hook them up and let them take care of it. You don't really get involved. So there are some things that happened during our um business venture here that I've instituted some change over at CNR4.

SPEAKER_00 12:27

Um is there fear? You know, I've heard just just to kind of go off of that, and Spencer, maybe you can speak to this a little bit since you guys do it. I've heard a lot of contractors say they they're not going to touch those kind of other trades for fear of like liability, right? How do you guys approach that and cover yourselves in those situations?

SPEAKER_01 12:48

Well, that's uh why it's helpful that we have a plumber. So we're not actually installing a toilet, you know, we're kind of overseeing the installation, and that just double checks us to you know, the plumber is certified and insured all on his own. And so we we trust those other tradesmen to to do what they know how to do.

SPEAKER_00 13:08

And we so you're building you're building relationships across different trade channels that that support you is kind of an so then you become almost a one-stop shop.

SPEAKER_01 13:18

And uh yeah, that's the the goal, and like Chris said, the the no problem mentality of being like we can take care of it. That's part of it is trying to be full service.

SPEAKER_02 13:29

And maybe it does get you into trouble saying no problem every now and again, but occasionally, Spencer, you're right, occasionally, but for those of you who are listening, going, you know, if you guys are driving, nodding your head or or or shaking your head back and forth, no, I'm not gonna go down this road. Um, I I I'll tell you right now, remove and replace two toilets with plumber, 400 bucks. Remove and replace two vanities with plumber, 400 bucks. So, I mean, this is it's not a strong revenue driver because I'm sure the plumber charged you a pretty penny as well, but you have a profit in there. And so if you're gonna do something for your customer that's gonna make their day easier, charge, you know, get the plumber's number, put your profit on top. You know, I'm about making margin here, and then service, service, service. The customer is never gonna be upset about paying for service and efficiency. You know, I know that that plumbing's not leaking because you brought in a plumber. And if it does leak, I know the plumber's taking care of it, not me.

SPEAKER_00 14:36

Right. And I so I have another question. This is I'm throwing you as a little bit of a screwball spenser. This wasn't one that I had put in, but I'm just curious. Um, have those relationships across the trade channel actually benefited you the other way? You know, you're working, you've got relationships with a plumber, you probably have a number of other trades that are that you've you've worked with in this kind of full service approach. So they're gaining business off of you. Have you seen that flip? Did those relationships actually bring you business um by building those across the table?

SPEAKER_01 15:11

That's a great question. I just had one recently where we have a guy who does turbine inspections, which with hardwood you need sometimes. And so he's not you know in direct business with us, but he's a guy I call when I have questions about termites, because I'm not a bug guy. Um, and vice versa, when he does a termite inspection and there's hardwood floor damage, we're the one, you know, he hands out our card and says, call these guys, they know what they're doing. And so then we come in and do that side of things. So those kind of things happen all the time. Where for those plumbers or electricians that we work with, we're top of mind for them when flooring comes up. So staying top of mind on a wide range, that's it's easy for sure.

SPEAKER_02 16:00

Just make sure your partners are not all. Sorry, Jeff. No, go ahead. Just make sure your partners are as are as professional as you are. Because that referral goes in the same direction too. If that guy's fly by night, they may not have the greatest amount of confidence in you, considering the source. So choose your partners wisely out there. Sure.

SPEAKER_00 16:20

Yeah, I agree. Well, let's go back to your first interactions, Chris, with with 50 grit, Spencer, Josh.

SPEAKER_02 16:29

Yep.

SPEAKER_00 16:29

Um, their organization. What happened during those four first interactions with them that said, man, these are the guys we're I'm I'm gonna hire.

SPEAKER_02 16:38

These are the it it didn't start with um Spencer's. He's in a um what kind of car is it? Is it a small SUV or a car?

SPEAKER_01 16:47

Technically, it's a minivan, but let's call it an SUV.

SPEAKER_02 16:50

It's just a little tiny, cute little car. Oh, you're a clown car. No. But no, the truth is, but it's lettered up and full professional. I'm looking out the window. I was there, was a part of me that was internally saying, I want to see how these guys do it, because it's another region where I can measure my company against performance of others. And so I was doing some homework in Kane, super professional, had everything he needed, including his leave behind. He had samples of wood floor vents, which is something we don't drive around with at CNR. We had we started to now, by the way. Thank you for teaching me that, Spencer. So, you know, it was your typical residential wood floor estimate, same as any painter or any professional carpenter, anybody who's gonna come in and work with your house. However, this is something CNR is pretty good at, which is we get the estimate out right away. Now, you had this estimate to me in the afternoon. Do you are you guys Wi-Fi up in the car, or did you go back to the office to get me my estimate?

SPEAKER_01 17:59

I sent it from the office, but in between things, I was working on it in the car.

SPEAKER_02 18:04

Fair. And so it showed up and it comes from Floors App, and it's a very user-friendly being that the software they're using, I just had to click and read. Okay. But as I'm clicking and reading, it's also presenting to me, hey, did I mention we want 60% for a deposit? And so, like all the guessing is out of the way. At no point was I lost reading your estimate. It was clear, it was precise, and the back and forth worked very well. I clicked on, now I will say this CNR flooring does not have a policy where we charge you for um credit card usage. It's just a that's a personal thing. But you guys do 3% surcharge um when you're using a credit card. So on the deposit, because I was very interested in getting this thing on the books, happening right away, I just click credit card, big deal. I don't care about the $168 fee. I want my I want my job scheduled and I want my daughter happy. Um but when the bill came, then I just used my bank and saved the three percent. And so I suppose you could always go back and forth. My office yells at me all the time. They're like, we need to charge the credit cards. And I'm like, I I just mentally can't do it yet. And I and I haven't found a way to do it. But the way 50 grid did it and the way it was presented, I was free to make the choice on my own, and I think that's a decent thing to do. So, like I said, I chose to do it on the way in on the deposit and chose not to do it on the way out on the final invoice. That's something you got to consider. But again, this is a software that's allowing you to charge all this stuff.

SPEAKER_00 19:55

How long have you used Floors app, Spencer?

SPEAKER_01 19:58

Three, three years, I think we've had it.

unknown 20:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 20:01

So is it like a software that handles the whole process?

SPEAKER_01 20:05

It can pretty much go as far as you want it to. I know that we've been with the Floors app since pretty early on, and so we've kind of watched it grow as a software. Um, but you can manage schedule with it. Um, quoting, you it has B2B functionality, so you get prices and everything from your suppliers all listed in there. Um, we don't use it for project management, but we do use it for everything customer facing, quoting, estimating. Um but yeah, you it it has a lot and it's keeping it.

SPEAKER_00 20:35

So all your consumer, all your consumer-facing pieces are done through or stuff. Okay. So from an efficiency standpoint and a communication standpoint, that's really helped you guys.

SPEAKER_01 20:46

For sure. Yeah. And it's it's really customizable. I mean, you can make it work for however your business is set up. There's a lot of options.

SPEAKER_00 20:54

Chris, do you use a CRM system?

SPEAKER_02 20:57

So we're we use QuickBooks for interfacing with our clientele when we fill out an estimate and send it. But then um, QuickBooks then integrates, if that's the right word here, um, with another system called Help Scout. And Help Scout is our information communication track. So when you get an estimate from CNR Flooring, it is our QuickBooks estimate. It comes from Intuited QuickBooks, but it interacts with we're called answers at C and R Flooring. And if the customer has a question about the estimate, they'll just click the question and it goes into Help Scout answers at CNR Flooring. And that's how we communicate with our clients. It served us well because anybody, my salesman, myself, my VP, my accounting people, anybody can go in a Help Scout and see what's going on. So that's that's what we're doing. And I happen to like QuickBooks.

SPEAKER_01 22:00

So yeah, we use QuickBooks as well, and it it integrates with Floors App. So those two are talking back and forth QuickBooks and Floors app.

SPEAKER_02 22:09

Okay. So your billing is with QuickBooks, and QuickBooks converts what I'm looking at, or my template in front of me, uh my invoice 1873 from you. That's a QuickBooks invoice.

SPEAKER_01 22:20

So that's a Floors app invoice, but then it communicates what's been paid and what's not, and all that's done in QuickBooks.

SPEAKER_00 22:29

Yeah, you download all your bookkeeping into QuickBooks where you're reconciling all of your payments and such. Okay. Most, I would say probably most softwares are doing that QuickBooks piece.

SPEAKER_02 22:42

Yeah. I agree because they're probably the largest out there.

SPEAKER_00 22:46

Right, right, right. Exactly. How do you approach an estimate differently than just simply giving somebody a quote or a price? How do you approach that as a customer service?

SPEAKER_01 22:59

So, like with Chris is a great example with the job that we walk through, because there's a lot of small things that you have to be watching for that are going to play into how the job comes together. So, for example, at Chris's daughter's house, they had a walk-in closet with like a built-out closet interior inside with these feet that came down and pressed into the floor. And it's probably funny. And I don't think we want to remove all of the built-ins that are in this closet. So we had to work on a solution with that. So that just as an example, small things, transitions between different materials, how we go into tile, into hardwood or into vinyl, whatever it may be. So like transitions and small details, pointing those out and including those so that you're on the same page with the customer about what the end result is going to look like. Not just, you know, you walk in, you see the floor, and it's like, oh, the floor looks great, but how are the how are the does the trim come together? You know, how are the transitions installed? All those small things. So that's what comes to mind when I think it's not just the price, it's getting very minute into the details and planning out how that's going to work as well.

SPEAKER_02 24:27

Well, you got to work your checklist. Do you guys work your checklist electronically? Or like at C and R, I get it. I'm a dinosaur, but we're still using physical papers. We have a job site folder with every question that would come up on an install and every question that would come up on a sand and finish, and we fill it out, and then our salesman uses that as his guide to making the estimate. So we're still taking hand notes.

SPEAKER_01 24:53

Yeah, we don't I don't have a paper checklist. I know at some points we have, depending on who's doing the estimate. Um, but I personally don't use one, uh, which maybe that's a good note that I probably should.

SPEAKER_02 25:05

I'll send you a copy of ours. Ours is pretty incredible. And so so here's a fun fact about that. We have a new salesman at CNR, and he's super green. So he's usually shadowing me, but I will send him to if it's just a stand and finish, and he runs that checklist and and checks everything off and it it covers everything. You know, customer information on the first page uh with every question on a stand and finish. On the back page is every room in a house, and you just take on down all the measurements. Inside cover is everything on an install, and then there's a notes um also on inside cover. That becomes our job site folder when it turns into an estimate or a work order or an invoice, all those papers go in that folder, and that's our hard copy, and then we still have it in QuickBooks. But if there's a question, we go to that hard copy folder, which is notes from the original walkthrough. So that's how we do it at CNR. Um, you had a pretty you had a uh you know, contractor clipboard going, if if I remember correctly.

SPEAKER_01 26:10

Yeah, we um we use measure square. I don't know if you guys know about measure square. It's uh it's built specifically for flooring, um, and it connects to uh to a laser distance meter. And as I'm walking through the house, I'm on an on the iPad and drawing out a floor plan of the house, which has all the measurements. Um and it has even where doors are, um cabinets, everything. So a combination of my notes and the measure square floor plan that acts as our job site notes. Uh you go. And then when I get back to the shop with Measure Square, you can say which rooms are getting you know, demoed, which rooms are getting installed, refinish, which walls are getting shoe molding or baseboards.

SPEAKER_02 26:58

So it works. Yep. And and and like I said, and the whole reason I wanted to do all this was the level of professionalism that was coming across was solid. And so my confidence level was pretty high. Now, here's something I don't know. Um, how old is 50 grit as a company?

SPEAKER_01 27:19

That's a trick question because we're four years old as 50 grit, but we were Cincinnati flooring window coverings for 21 years prior to that switch. So the company's been around for almost 26 years, but we've been 50 grift for four.

SPEAKER_02 27:40

Okay. Well, that explains why the level of professionalism was so high, because you guys have a great history. Are you still doing window treatments?

SPEAKER_01 27:47

No, so we just do floors now. So before it was tile window blinds. Um, I believe they even did some like masonry work around like mantle, like stone fireplaces. So it was seriously all inclusive.

SPEAKER_00 28:05

So, Chris, you've you've worked with contractors, owned your own company, you know, your entire career. You've been been around the industry, been involved with high-level contractors. But what what separated this experience in particular with 50 grit from so many of your others?

SPEAKER_02 28:27

Well, again, um it's something I always say, it's level of professionalism. You know, I don't know how many years you've been doing the podcast now, but if you think back, I'm sure any of you that are listening right now have heard me say time and time again, be the best professional you can be. And if you're coming across that way, that's how your customer is going to perceive you. And so I have builders that are not the best professionals they could be. And and you see that, but I also know when I am in front of a contractor that's top tier, and you have to raise your game. Um, I didn't see for one minute that 50 grit needed to raise their game to accompany my expectations. I felt like they were ready to meet my expectations, and and that's the whole idea. From he showed up on time, he was clean, he was uniformed, his car was his truck, was lettered, um, he took good notes, there was a lot of communication. We covered all the details, he left, the estimates showed up in a timely manner. I paid the deposit, we got moved on to scheduling, the job got scheduled. We eat they even were willing, since I was supplying, I was gonna be sending the material from my warehouse to my future son-in-law's warehouse. And 50 Grit was like, look, we gotta put it in anyway, just send it to us. And they received it. I SC shipped two pallets over to them. They took them in, they brought it to the site. Again, levels of professionalism. And and if you want to, and by the way, I'm not saying they were expensive, I'm not saying they were cheap. I feel like I paid the right amount of money for the service I received. And I don't get into arguments with clients about dollars and cents. We have a rate and we tell everyone we charge enough money to stay in business, not be in business. And there's a difference. And if you're gonna have a problem, you want to know that I have resources to take care of those problems. And that entails having a profit margin that allows you to stay in business. So case in point 50 grit there on you know, year 21, CNR, year 39. This is how you do it.

SPEAKER_00 30:58

So, a question for for both of you internally here at Ender May Face, sometimes some of the things that we've been talking about is this like trust um and how you build trust with your internal team, with people with your members, um, you know, that's our customer, is you guys, um, all of those things. So, what was the one thing, and maybe it's a maybe it's the same laundry list that you just uh bespoke to, Chris, but what was the thing that says I trust 50 grit?

SPEAKER_02 31:31

Um well, can I answer that in hindsight? Because I'm a little amused that I that I didn't realize. But so I met Spencer for the first time at the new member meeting, as I said earlier, and Josh was with him. But I mean, do you know how many new people I meet at convention year after year? Or hey, I was in your class. Well, okay, I remember that too. So when Spence showed up, I didn't know if it was Spencer or Josh. And and I listen, let me be honest, I get my own kids' names mixed up, and they've been my kids for 28 and 27 years. So there I was dealing with Spencer, and when I brought it to everyone's attention, I'm like, look, we gotta get this owner on from 50 Grid. I want him on the podcast, he's amazing. And Stephanie's like, well, you know he's not the owner, right? I'm like, I don't, I don't know who anyone is anymore. But that's my point. The level of professionalism and the manner in which you carry yourself, I was like, this guy's the decision maker. And then I learned in hindsight, when we did decide that we were gonna do this podcast, the owner, Josh, was like, I really appreciate that you want us all on the podcast, but I really want Spencer to do it because he's the one out there in the front lines. If this company is gonna go in the direction that I want it to, and that's a direct quote from Josh, um, then I've got to allow these guys who are earning their moment in his son to carry the ball. Josh didn't hesitate for a second. He didn't say, Let me come in and carry the ball while we do the spontaneous podcast. He said, No, the guy in charge right now is Spencer. He's the man who who did it, let him do it. And and so clearly you work for somebody who knows how to delegate, and that is a massive, massive trait. Very fortunate for Josh to be in that position at such a young age that he can handle it and and dole it out. So, congratulations, Josh, on that. And uh, that's what you're looking to do, guys. I get calls all the time from people. Uh, how do you not get involved? Because they ask me all the time. And you got to have good people around you. That's the answer.

SPEAKER_00 33:52

For sure, for sure. Trust is contagious too. So, Spencer, what about you on the flip side of things? Uh, as an owner, are there times that you walk into a job and you're like, heck no, I'm not doing this. The trust level is low. Uh I can see the laughing because he's probably concurred in some of these situations too, um, where your trust, your trust level is low across that. So, how do you approach that type of situation to flipping the script on you here a little bit?

SPEAKER_01 34:23

Um very run caughtly, I guess. Don't, you know, if we're talking about trust with a um with a client or like like we talked about with with builders, um general contractors, it's kind of you know, you want to you want to think the best of the people you work with, um, but it doesn't it doesn't always go that way. So just not putting all your eggs in one basket kind of thing. Like someone may say something, you you know, okay. I 70% believe that that's actually the case. So being in our physician, I guess it's just moving, moving cautiously and not oh, I don't know what the word I'm looking for is here.

SPEAKER_02 35:10

I do. You need to notice what's going wrong before it can go wrong. Yeah. So only two days ago I was on a measure and we were talking about blend lines because they didn't want to do this room, but did want to do that room. And I said, listen, out the doorway, you might see a shadow of a difference. Okay, it was an it was an ebony floor. And I said, I don't know if this guy goes an analy on a dye or a water pop. There's a certain level of darkness here, but when we do this, there might be a slight level of difference. And the woman goes, Well, I can tell you right now, I won't be happy. And I was like, Okay, perfect. So we won't be blending at your doorway because it's not an option for you. I appreciate you communicating that to me. And then on my notes, I just write three dollar signs, and that's a signal to my company that we need to charge a little bit more on this one because you know she's going to be laser focused on all the details, not just that blend line. When they make matter-of-fact statements, it isn't run for the hills, it's increase the level of service, but remember to charge for it and deliver. By the way, when you go up in your price because you think there's going to be a lot of extras and unforeseen things, charge for it, but deliver. Be ready to deliver.

SPEAKER_01 36:41

I think I would agree, like the setting of expectations. I'm finding, and I feel like I learned this a lesson like every day, but set setting expectations specifically and properly and at the right level, that's that's the answer as well. Like you have that person, that's their expectation, and you just say, okay, then we can't meet that. So let's find one that we can agree on.

SPEAKER_02 37:08

Right. Yep. Not a problem still has to be your answer, but it can be on your terms. Not a problem isn't permission for your client to do whatever they want. Yeah, not a problem is permission for your client to communicate their expectations and for you to communicate back to them how you can meet that expectation.

SPEAKER_00 37:31

So just to wrap this up, we we've really talked about this is bigger than just one flooring project, but with about systems and communication, level of professionalism, use of technology to support that, just creating an overall experience that your customers can remember long after you've left the job. So, Spencer, congratulations to you for leaving a lasting impression on Chris and his daughter and her husband. So super excited for that. But so if we wrap up on ask one question to both of you, what's one piece of real, because we're talking about real answers podcast here, some real advice that you've received or one lesson you've learned that has changed the way you serve your customers?

SPEAKER_02 38:19

You want to go first, Bence, on that?

SPEAKER_01 38:21

Yeah, I can take it. So coming from uh being an installer and not just in wood floors, but in several other trades I've worked in, I've always been on the installer side. Um, and making the transition over to estimating and you know, more the business end of things, I kind of felt like my the impact wasn't going to be as much as it used to be. Like you're not, you know, I don't have knee pads on, installing the floor, making the difference in the house. Um, but the impact is just different now. It's not gone, it's just a different kind of impact. And like we're talking about, it's the professionalism, the knowledge, the having the answers for clients when they need them, it's just as important as being able to swing a hammer or install the floor itself. So the the advice that I got from Josh Hansman was you know, you're not removed from the process now that you're doing this. It's just you're working on the another end of it. It's still just as important. So, whatever part you are in the process, if you're a carpenter, if you're a barboat flooring guy, if you're doing estimating, if you're an owner, a sale, whatever it is, you're still a part of the same process. It just might look a little different. So treat it just as with just as much importance.

SPEAKER_02 39:47

You're just in another lane, yeah. Yeah, uh, but you're all on the same freeway. Um, so well put, by the way, and good advice, good advice from Josh. Um, my aha of real advice, and um, I've said it on the show before, and I'm gonna tell it again because I have used it my entire career. Um, and uh Mr. Bill Foley, who has since passed away, but uh what an impact he left on me. And he was one of the more professional builders I ever worked for. And his customer would tell him something that he knew he didn't like hearing. You could probably tell by my facial expression that I didn't like hearing it, but they were talking to Bill, and Bill would always answer with, uh-huh. Uh-huh. And every time they would make another statement of a demand on what we were gonna do, he would go, uh-huh. Well, and then he would, in a short phrase, say, We've taken note of everything you've asked, and uh, we're gonna gather our facts and come back to you with those answers. It never got confrontational once, it was always uh-huh. And then he was gonna put together a suited answer. Now, of course, if the answer was easy, he would just give the answer or say, that's not gonna be a problem. But the uh-huh method was the best advice I ever got for getting out of a difficult conversation with a customer and not lose their confidence. Because the other thing I'll tell you is you can't get used to selling these jobs to high-end people until you're used to selling the job. You gotta get you have to be comfortable in the room, and they're gonna know if you're not comfortable. So find those trigger statements that allow you to remain comfortable. And that's one of the things I learned from one of my better builders.

SPEAKER_01 41:51

It's great.

SPEAKER_00 41:52

Yeah. Yeah. Well, this has been really great having Chris on the other side of the table here, other side of the mic, I guess you would say. It's been fun asking it.

SPEAKER_02 42:04

Hey, it hurt more to pay than it did to collect.

SPEAKER_00 42:07

I'm sure. I'm sure. Um, but Spencer, totally appreciate your time and your um your candor here and and being so new in the industry, but just uh also making such a lasting impression um on Chris and his family was really neat to hear about. So keep doing the great work you're doing in the industry. I hope to see you again um at future expos. Um, but thank you again, Chris and Spencer, for being here today.

SPEAKER_02 42:35

No way. I'm happy to. Spence, you were awesome. And I'll and I'll leave, I'll leave with this and then we'll let Spence say goodbye. And that is that Josh and other guys have been in my classes and or scratch that I want to be clear, classes that I taught for the NWFA, because all of this education is at NWFA, and the commercial is this I watched companies grow over the years, and it was exciting to watch one perform that have gone through NWFA stuff, and then here it is. Wow, great job, super impressed, and can't thank you enough for being on the show.

SPEAKER_01 43:12

Yeah, thanks, Chris. It worked out for me because now I've got your number and I can bug you.

SPEAKER_02 43:18

And he does, by the way, but it's not bugging. None of you are ever bugging me. I get so many calls. Feel free to reach out anytime. For me, it's the best. I'm happy to give, you know, point the arrow and then and then you fly. Great day today, guys. Keep it real on good stuff.

SPEAKER_00 43:36

Appreciate you. Yes, thank you.