"Why Do Intrusive Mental Images Still Hit Me—Even Years Into His Recovery?"

In this episode (#333), we address a question from a betrayed partner who is about three years into sex addiction recovery and betrayal trauma healing with her partner. Although he has been sober, involved in 12-step recovery, working with a sponsor, and the couple has gone through formal therapeutic disclosure, she still experiences intrusive mental images connected to his past acting out. We explain that these images are not evidence that she is failing in her healing. They are trauma responses. The early season of discovery, trickle-truth, searching for evidence, finding secret accounts and online ads, and trying to piece together reality created a chain of traumatic events that the nervous system may continue to store as danger.

We discuss how intrusive thoughts can feel “random,” even when they are not. A betrayed partner may be triggered not only by obvious reminders of the betrayal, but also by subtle cues such as a tone of voice, silence, emotional distance, stress, fatigue, or even positive closeness. The body can remember danger before the conscious mind understands why. Because of this, healing includes learning to distinguish the past from the present through grounding tools, breath work, somatic calming, the 5-4-3-2-1 technique, journaling, orienting to current safety, and sometimes trauma-focused professional help such as EMDR, brainspotting, somatic therapy, or work with a CSAT or partner trauma specialist. The goal is not to erase memory, but to reduce the intensity, frequency, and dominance of the trauma response.

We also emphasize that the addict in recovery can play a powerful role in helping rebuild present-day safety. When his partner is triggered, his job is not to collapse into shame, become defensive, or demand that she “move on.” Instead, he can stand shoulder to shoulder with her against the trauma, respond with genuine curiosity, validate the pain his actions caused, and use the language of safety: “I can see something is coming up for you. What do you need from me right now?” Proactive transparency, consistent check-ins, emotional vulnerability, and accountability help reduce the partner’s need for hypervigilance. Ultimately, the measure of healing is not whether intrusive images never appear again, but whether they become less intense, less frequent, easier to recover from, and less able to rob the partner of peace in the present.

For a full transcript of this podcast in article format, go to:  Why Do Intrusive Mental Images Still Hit Me—Even Years Into His Recovery?

Learn more about Mark and Steve's revolutionary online porn/sexual addiction recovery and betrayal trauma healing program at—daretoconnectnow.com

Find out more about Steve Moore at:  Ascension Counseling

Learn more about Mark Kastleman at:  Reclaim Counseling Services

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:59

Hey everybody, PBSC Podcast hosts Mark and Steve here with a special message about our revolutionary online recovery program for addict spouses and couples called Dare to Connect. Multiple times every week, we get messages from subscribers in the program. They're people just like you. They're trying to heal from the devastation of sex and porn addiction and betrayal trauma. And here's a few of our most recent submissions. Here's one from an addict in recovery. It says D2C has principles that everyone should utilize regardless of their circumstances. It doesn't matter your coping mechanisms, it matters that you want to work towards genuine connection with your partner.

SPEAKER_03 1:40

That's awesome. Another testimony from an addict continues on My wife is just starting out in training as a licensed therapist. Dare to Connect has been far more useful to her than her degree. Wow. The way Mark and Steve apply what they've learned is always so redemptive. D2C has opened doors for my relationship that I thought would be shut forever. Mark and Steve are an incredible resource of information on the subject of sex addiction and betrayal trauma. We could not do this journey without their help.

SPEAKER_00 2:10

Here's one from a partner who's been with us for nearly a year. I want you both to know that it is because of you guys and D2C that I'm able to be in the place that I am today. I will always be grateful to you both for your feedback and prompt replies to my questions. I can't even come close to putting it into words how valuable my time spent with y'all this past year has been to my life. Thank you for everything you taught me about betrayal trauma and boundaries and thinking errors and loving myself and making myself a priority and standing up for myself.

SPEAKER_03 2:45

Love that, love that submission. And then as we close out here today, guys, one more account from another addict in recovery. I wish I had a platform like this 14 years ago where I could have learned and done the hard work of recovery before I had done all this damage to myself and to my spouse. And to be candid with all of you, that's exactly why we created Dare to Connect. You know, Mark and I found ourselves in that place. You know, messages like these and the others like them, they're what Dare to Connect really is all about, guys, and why Mark and I do what we do. Whether you're an addict or a partner of an addict, and no matter where you find yourself in the recovery process, Dare to Connect can take you to the next level. Don't wait another day to catapult your recovery forward. Today is your day for change. Visit us at DareToconnectNow.com to pick up your free two-week trial of Dare to Connect today.

SPEAKER_01 3:55

And I'm Mark Castleman. We know the pain and heartbreak of porn and sex addiction. And we know the triumph of breaking completely free. Every day we help our clients find hope and healing. Join us in the fight to take back your life, your marriage, and be stronger than ever. This is the PBSE Squared Podcast.

SPEAKER_00 4:36

I'm Mark Castleman with Steve Moore. This is episode 333. Why do intrusive mental images still hit me? Even years into his recovery. Oh my goodness, I don't know what that means either. Well, let me read uh this is a submission by a betrayed partner in healing. And she says, um, my partner and I are about three years into sex addiction recovery and betrayal trauma healing. Around uh three and a half years ago, I discovered he had cheated on me with a sex worker after seeing a deleted text on his phone. Over the next few months, uh I was trickle-truthed because we didn't yet know there was specialized help available, and we made a lot of mistakes early on. Eventually we found a CSAT that's a certified sexual addiction therapist, who facilitated a formal therapeutic disclosure, and the full extent of his addiction was revealed. Since then, he's been attending 12-step meetings, working with a sponsor. He's been porn-free and free from acting out with sex workers since early 2023. Our recovery hasn't been perfect, but we've made meaningful progress and are in a much better place than before. Where I feel I struggle most was early on, before professional guidance, when I searched for details myself, I found secret emails, porn accounts, online ads connecting to all connected to his acting out. That deep dive felt traumatic in and of itself. And now I still experience random mental movies and intrusive thoughts about what I saw. Even when we're having a good day and there are no clear triggers, images or thoughts about his acting out will suddenly appear. In those moments, I feel overwhelmed, and I see him only as the person who hurt and lied to me. And it's hard to shake that feeling. What additional steps can I take in my own healing to reduce these intrusive mental images and random thoughts? I understand I can't erase the past, but I want to reach a place where I'm not periodically bombarded by these memories, and I can feel more peace in the present. Thank you for the work you do. Your podcast has been incredibly helpful during moments when I felt like nothing else could help.

SPEAKER_03 7:02

That's really kind. We appreciate the sentiment and definitely connect with the dilemma and the challenge. So we we have a we have a partner here, a betrayed partner who is in a current marriage where clearly a lot of recovery work has been done, right? A lot of a lot of a lot of things have happened, a lot of healing has occurred. There's there's been a wide range of of uh involvement in the recovery world, ranging from uh the individual work all the way up through getting specialized help. You know, they've gone through a formal disclosure, and now they're in a place where he is, I think according to her, three years in change, sober. Um a lot has happened. Yeah. Uh and so so a lot of good things have occurred. It it can be very what'd I say, disorienting might be the right word. Uh for a partner or for an addict when the old symptomology of what we used to struggle with, you know, I guess you could say pops up or or kind of rears its head. And um, especially when those things are of a more intrusive uh level, like what this partner is describing, we know that that can really be unbalancing and and can uh take one's brain and emotional state and and other things, you know, back to places that we don't want to go to. So we can very much connect with with the dilemma. I I think that everyone on this call, whether you've you just started this process of recovery or whether you're three years plus, like this coupleship is, I think everybody on this call connects with the idea of man, I just want to be normal. Right? Whatever that means. Uh for some that means free of this, for some that means um, you know, maybe something different. But that that sentiment of like this idea, I just I want to move forward to a new chapter and leave this old one behind, very understandable. And when that doesn't happen or when these things pop up, it really, really can disrupt the flow. So it's a good good topic to address.

SPEAKER_00 9:07

Yeah, it is, you know, and we applaud all the good things they're both doing, you know. And I think it's important for her to realize that these intrusive thoughts, they're not signs that her healing has failed or that she's not, you know, doing it right. They're these are trauma responses. And we see this a lot, uh, Steve, in the in the betrayed partners we've worked with over the years. When when a partner is forced into this place of detective mode, of her being the one that discovers things, you know, because we as addicts are not forthcoming. We often often are living in a secret sexual basement where we're keeping it all hidden and throwing our partners off the track and gaslighting and all the things that go on, all the integrity, integrity abuse. When a betra when a betrayed partner goes into this detective mode, it's really traumatic, the things that are discovered. And we need to understand that those things in and of themselves are traumatic events. So all all the all the trickle truthing, right? Stuff that comes out a little bit at a time, and every time something more comes out, it compounds on top of what came out before. And this is where we get into complex trauma. Um all the self-investigation where she had to she had to find out things her own, searching phones, searching emails, accounts, ads, messages. You have to realize that all of those things chained together, it makes up a huge cycle and process and trail of trauma events. And the nervous system, the human nervous system, treats every one of those discovered uh images, a new piece of discovered information, a new trickle truth comes out. Every one of those are separate traumatic events. And they all pile in on each other and are all linked together, as we said, in complex trauma. And and and part of the great challenge is all that visual material becomes uh what we might call sticky in the memory. Like it's it's welded, it's lodged in there. And this is and all of this is now stored, and a lot of partners can become trapped in what we call hypervigilance. Because why? Because the brain, the survival brain believes that in order to stay safe, in order to be protected, if it keeps replaying all of that, it can stay vigilant, it can stay on its guard, it won't, right, it won't be blindsided again, it won't have the other shoe drop. So the brain replay the traumatized brain replays those over and over and over again. And and the key is the partner didn't cause this trauma by going searching. The searching was the attempt to regain safety and reality and and orientation and truth. She was just doing what she had to do. But now we have this situation now that exists.

SPEAKER_03 12:15

Well, and I and I think part of the difficult dilemma, right, when we're talking about, you know, the trickle-tooth process and the nature of the betrayal, because everyone's trauma looks a little different, right? Every client's trauma looks a little different. But when we're talking about a case like this, um, you know, a big part of the reality for a betrayed partner is, you know, there's there's always something else.

unknown 12:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 12:38

Something I don't know, there's something he's not telling me, there's something I'm not aware of. And so I, right? And and so we have here we have symptom or uh, you know, internal truth and then symptom, the hypervigilance piece. And and and the brain, you know, remembering these memories, these memories becoming quote unquote sticky, I I would actually argue is not even a bad thing inherently, right? We we know the the brain's trauma response, the trauma response is not the problem.

unknown 13:07

Right.

SPEAKER_03 13:08

Right. It's important that we just mention that really quick because I know for many partners, and understandably so, especially if you get this stage in recovery, it one's trauma response or or that that trauma truth can almost just be like, geez, why the crap is this here? It's not doing anything. And and it may be dysfunctional, right? It may not be functioning correctly. But that brain's, we'd argue, you know, higher power or God-given internal mechanism helps the the brain not to forget these things. Why? So that we can avoid that kind of hurt, that kind of harm in the future. So trauma healing doesn't come from hypnotizing memory away or you know, magically going in there and just kind of, you know, with a laser and zapping those parts of the brain that recall these things. Um the way the way that we do true trauma healing is is both transforming, right, the brain's response when when such messages come up or triggers come up. But then also in in the symptom management piece, right? And there's a lot to that that we're we're gonna do.

SPEAKER_00 14:16

Well, and I think it's I think it's important to, you know, uh these these intrusive images, these mental movies as she describes them. One of the really frustrating things for uh betrayed partners in healing is that uh those those intrusive images in old mental movies can pop up from things that you wouldn't think were obvious triggers. Right? She didn't catch him looking at porn. She didn't see him scanning and fantasizing in public. There's there's all these subtle things that can bring these old images up. And these are things like uh his tone of voice, um even even feeling emotionally close to him can can bring this stuff and and sound the warning sign. If she's being invulnerable, uh his silence, if she's fatigued or stressed, um even positive moments can paradoxically activate the old fears. There's so many things with the complex traumatized brain that can that can activate these old images and memories. And it can be really frustrating because you think, well, we're doing good. Well, I mean, this had nothing to do with any of that. Why is this popping up? And so it it's really important to realize that the nervous system stores lots and lots of trauma, unresolved emotional memories, and those things can pop up for almost any reason.

SPEAKER_03 15:45

Yeah, I mean, we do have a bullet in our in our production notes here that we want to talk about, this idea that the body can remember danger before your conscious mind even knows why. And that's important to note, it kind of goes back to what we were just talking about, right? The brain stores uh traumatic memory, uh, you know, in many ways, not to get too brainy today, but you know, in in in in the subconscious and in subconscious thought, right? It's not it's not something that we always consciously engage with or or activate. And again, what's what's it trying to do when it does that? Well, it's trying to keep us safe, right? It's trying to recognize symptoms or possible issues before they come up so we can avoid those things again. But it it can be really pervasive, and and like Mark said, I mean, the the triggers behind that aren't always obvious. And they and they can be very simple, subtle things. Um, in just a second, here we're gonna talk about um things that can actually be done bond both both the partner, but also on the part of the addict. Her original question to us, if you recall at the beginning, was what can I be doing right in my own healing to work on this? And that's and that's and and and we appreciate that approach because obviously all you can do is control you. But with a couple that's in a dynamic where the the addict is is the recovering addict is in a place where he's active and and it sounds as though he's willing to be proactive in the recovery process, not just for him, but for her, uh, there are things that he can do as well to kind of help bolster that up. Yeah. Um but is as as we as we talk about this, it is important that you know the way that the brain brings up these these experiences can can vary right in depth. There are there's the remembering, right, of or the recalling of traumatic events, and then there's the actual reliving component. Um, and they are not the same by any means, right? We Mark and I have worked with more than one partner over over the years where it when when I go to that place of trauma, it's not just oh, I'm having this really hard memory, and I'm it feels like I'm going through this all over again, which is much more of what we're hearing this partner describe. Yeah, and and again, it can be very, very intrusive. But that being said, it is important to recognize along this line of her not blaming herself too much and and them and them as a coupleship recognizing the progress that's been made because we know that that can be a fear. Like, well, what does this mean? Is this recover has this whole recovery thing just been a lie? Maybe it's just all a house of cards that we just built. And I we've also had many partners vocalize that to us in our clinics over the years. It's important to recognize that progress and intrusive thoughts they can definitely coexist. Um, in fact, I would say that for almost all of the couples that I've ever worked with, uh, including in my own experience, right, in recovery, these these kinds of things can persist for for years plus down the road. And they are a part of the process, just like the trauma is a part of our story.

SPEAKER_01 18:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 18:51

Yeah. I think we need to realize that healing is not linear, it doesn't be this neat little box, right?

SPEAKER_03 18:57

It shouldn't that be great? I know, right? Just tie this little bow around that stage of our world. Well, that was the those were the addiction years, and now we've wrapped that up like a cute little Amazon package, and we just took it to the store to return it. Yeah, it doesn't, it doesn't work that way.

SPEAKER_00 19:14

But we can, I mean, we can offer her some practical tools for managing those intrusive mental movies when they come. So maybe we could talk about a few of those real quick. Yeah. Um, you know, let's talk a little bit about what we call grounding, grounding work or nervous system regulation. One of the most immediately available and effective things when she finds herself those intrusive thoughts coming back is just simply going into breath work, right? Uh, you know, deep a deep breath in for a number of counts, and then a slow breath out for a number of counts. That breathing work, that can calm down the nervous system all by itself. Um, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 19:55

Yeah. Well, and and and different techniques for orienting to the present are critical here. Because remember, we just talked about this concept of remembering versus reliving. Right. And if we're in a place where where this trigger or this trauma response is so acute that we feel like we are reliving, one of the first orders of business is to help the brain to recognize we are not back in 2020, right? Or whatever it is for this partner, even though this memory feels very real, um, I am here now today. I was talking to an addict just the other day about this concept from the addict's perspective. And one of the things that I used to do when old feelings of shame or guilt would come up, even though we my wife and I had processed and worked through those things. I used to keep my sobriety coin from my 12-step group in my pocket. I don't do that anymore, but I I used to, and I would just grab it in my pocket and kind of rub it when that would happen. It helped me to remember, okay, I'm here now, right? This is not, these are not the old days. I'm not the old Steve. I'm a guy with this much of sobriety, this much of recovery. Lots has happened, things are different. Britney's in a different place, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. And those can and those are all really, really critical. And you can use objects for that. Uh, you can use talk dialogue with not just with a therapist, but with a with a trusted friend. Um, sometimes even journaling can be helpful in the grounding process.

SPEAKER_00 21:26

Yeah. I like the oriented to the present, naming the current reality, right? Where are we right now? Where am I today? And then we have all there's I I love actually uh what we'll some call somatic, somatic calming techniques, things to ground you in the moment. Uh, just a few of those. There's like uh there's the 54321 technique. Identify five things that you can see right here around you, four things that you can touch, three things that you can hear, two things you can smell, one thing you can taste. See how that puts you right now into this moment. Um, orienting to safety in that moment, slowly looking in your environment and focusing on colors and textures and mentally mentally acknowledging, I'm safe here. Everything's okay here. Um, even to the place where, you know, grounding your feet to the carpet or to the floor, feeling, you know, feeling the your socks between your toes, anything to somatically ground yourself in that current moment, environment, place, your body, those are all very helpful. Hey everybody, PBSC podcast hosts Mark and Steve here with a special message about our revolutionary online recovery program for addict spouses and couples called Dare to Connect. Multiple times every week, we get messages from subscribers in the program. They're people just like you. They're trying to heal from the devastation of sex and porn addiction and betrayal trauma. And here's a few of our most recent subscribers. Here's one from an addict in recovery. It says D2C has principles that everyone should utilize regardless of their circumstances. It doesn't matter your coping mechanisms, it matters that you want to work towards genuine connection with your partner.

SPEAKER_03 23:15

That's awesome. Another testimony from an addict continues on. Dare to Connect has been far more useful to her than her degree. Wow. The way Mark and Steve apply what they've learned is always so redemptive. D2C has opened doors for my relationship that I thought would be shut forever. Mark and Steve are an incredible resource of information on the subject of sex addiction and betrayal trauma. We could not do this journey without their help.

SPEAKER_00 23:45

Here's one from a partner who's been with us for nearly a year. I want you both to know that it is because of you guys and D2C that I'm able to be in the place that I am today. I will always be grateful to you both for your feedback and prompt replies to my questions. I can't even come close to putting it into words how valuable my time spent with y'all this past year has been to my life. Thank you for everything you taught me about betrayal trauma and boundaries and thinking errors and loving myself and making myself a priority and standing up for myself.

SPEAKER_03 24:21

Love that submission. And then as we close out here today, guys, one more account from another addict in recovery. I wish I had a platform like this 14 years ago where I could have learned and done the hard work of recovery before I had done all this damage to myself and to my spouse. And to be candid with all of you, that's exactly why we created Dare to Connect. You know, Mark and I found ourselves in that place. You know, messages like these and the others like them, they're what Dare to Connect really is all about, guys, and why Mark and I do what we do. Whether you're an addict or a partner of an addict, and no matter where you find yourself in the recovery process, Dare to Connect can take you to the next level. Don't wait another day to catapult your recovery forward. Today is your day for change. Visit us at DareToconnectNow.com to pick up your free two-week trial of Dare to Connect today. Now, in addition to that, right, because there are obviously these grounding and self-care techniques that we can we can employ. And by the way, it should be noted that what we just talked about, I know that sometimes it's easy to look at this through the lens of, oh, those are things to use when I'm triggered. Yeah, that's true. They should also be techniques that we should use on the daily as well. Right? We it's important to know you can use techniques like that. It doesn't all we don't have to wait till we get to a place where we're reliving some sort of trauma or some sort of you know negative experience. If I'm if I'm going, if I'm working, doing my healthy recovery work on the daily, what am I going to want to start my day off with every day? We were talking about this actually in the addict session for Dare to Connect, you know, our program for our addict spouses and our addicts partners and couples this morning. Um, you know, what what am I, who am I today? What's my identity today? What is my worth? What is my self-image? How accurate is the way that I'm seeing myself, my capabilities, my potential today? Those are things that we everyone, addicts and partners, and just people, right? We we need to work on and constantly rework because we lose focus as humans. Yeah. Right? It's we we live, we live. I heard a colleague tell me the other day, it's something I I know and we've all heard, but let's just recognize it one more time. We live in the busiest world in the history of history. Ever. Never on the history of planet Earth has there been a time in life where you have more things barking at you for your attention. Social media, online blah blah blah, daily news interrupts, email. I mean, each of us can be reached in five different ways. Yeah, we live in these most simultaneously connected and disconnected society ever. So grounding and connecting with one's own authenticity and truth is not just a nice idea anymore, if it ever was. It is like a critical necessity on the daily to avoid getting just swept up in anything, whether it's your trauma responses or the messaging or or whatever the case is, right? That daily practice is essential. But of course, in addition to that, there are also professional techniques that can be helpful with this as well. So therapy, trauma-focused work, EMDR, uh is something that we talk about on here all the time. Brain spotting, which is a technique I've never been uh been affiliated with, but would be something that I don't know, as I was reading it up again on it today, I was like, maybe I should look into that. Um, somatic therapies, like Mark was talking about earlier, trauma-informed work with a CSAT or a certified partner trauma therapist can be really helpful in that way as well. Um obviously that work as far out for a partner like this may not be like you know, weekly therapy, but maybe going back in as my as my former therapist would say for a tune-up would always be helpful. Yeah, that could be really helpful.

SPEAKER_00 28:11

And I and and there's another part of this, you know, I think there's uh important things like self-compassion, self-patience. Um, maybe she hasn't thoroughly grieved all this process at this point. We know grieving takes a long time and doesn't happen in a in like we want to grieve in an order of steps, but they uh but they uh uh it often doesn't happen that way. Maybe there's some grieving still to be done, some components of that. Emotional processing instead of emotional suppression, right? And this is where Steve is you and I talk about what what the what the addict in recovery can do to help her. Um, this might be a time, you know, a place where in this podcast where we could talk just a little bit about that. Where is he at? Because I can tell you from the standpoint of a guy in recovery, when I would, after years down the road in recovery and healing, when I would look over and find my wife was being triggered, and I could tell, and I was pretty sure it was because of my outrageous past, that was very triggering for me. I had to be very careful of going into shame, um, you know, going into self-flogging and beating myself up, being defensive or reactive to her. One of the things that's really important in this is her being willing when she feels this triggering to be willing to go deeper. Like, what's under these images coming up? Where am I today? Are there things that I would like to talk about about the past? And her being willing to go there, but also him being in a place when he sees that she's there, can he proactively lean in with what we call genuine curiosity? And I I tell guys, when you see that that is happening or you you suspect it might be, can you come to your betrayed partner's aid in that moment and stand shoulder to shoulder with her to face that common enemy over there? Even though that that enemy is all this stuff coming back up for her and you were the cause of it, can you stand shoulder to shoulder with her to face that with her and help her process through these emotions and process through these things? Early on, when my wife would bring stuff up that was like 10, 15, 20, 25 years ago, I would get defensive and impatient and resentful. Oh, geez, do we have to go through this? How many decades are we going to be going through? Are we going to be talking about this when we're 80? Maybe.

SPEAKER_03 30:51

Well, that's possibly. And that's where where again a guy who's in solid recovery, an addict, uh recovery addict, can be helpful with this. Because you know, we were talking just a few minutes ago, Mark, about this list of, you know, well, here are some of the possible causes, right, or or triggers that can bring up this trauma. There's a more I I don't know if pernicious is the right word, but a more unseen trigger that is important to talk about now. And I think it applies especially to a couple who's been doing this long term. Have we gotten away from elements of proactive recovery, either individually or as a coupleship, that helped to safeguard against the the uh arrival or arising of such potent trauma responses?

SPEAKER_00 31:38

Things we would have paid more attention to in the in the earlier, earlier months or years of recovery where things were really intense.

SPEAKER_03 31:45

Well, so for example, like let's take, for example, and again, I could easily see this happening with a couple who's been in recovery for a long time. Um maybe he's working a great recovery and things are going really well, but he hasn't shared with her, at least in detail, recently or consistently, hey, this is how I'm actually doing. Right? Because again, for the traumatized brain, one, an absence of information is always dangerous. So, not that we can always supply that, but anytime we can, that's a win. But could that not in and of itself be a trigger? Right? Remember, again, the brain keeps track of these patterns in ways that we don't always recognize. If if part of a partner's trauma history is him kind of going dark, not necessarily doing anything nefarious, but simply just going dark on check-ins or sharing or being transparent or whatever, right? Could that could that not also happen? And again, that may not mean he's doing anything wrong per se, but perhaps there's an absence of proactive connection or information or a variety of other things that were those things more formally in place, or were we to look at those things and and to be paying more attention to them, that in of itself would be a potential, potentially a tremendous reducer of what we're talking about here today.

SPEAKER_00 33:08

Well, and I'm gonna say something that might sound really strange as people hear this, but if she if she pays attention to when these mental movies or the intr these intrusive thoughts come up, rather than viewing them as something to be avoided, something to, you know, to to be afraid of or to really get exhausted by, which is understandable. Instead, maybe whenever those intrusive thoughts come up for her, see that as a reminder or just a little nudge that says, Where are we? Where am I in my healing? Where is he? How have our check-ins been? How has he been with transparency and proactive vulnerability and accountability? Every time one of those intrusive thoughts comes up, you can say, Ah, a little reminder that me we should we should do a check as to where we're at and maybe make some little adjustments, right? So it's it's not just pure negative stuff that's that's just to be avoided or feared. Thank you for the reminder. Thank you for this coming up. We'd uh let's check in with each other. Right? So that that's that's a way to look at this. And I would encourage him, whenever this, I mean, Steve, you do we talk about what you've coined over the years as the language of safety, that when she is triggered by this or an intrusive thought comes, quote, out of nowhere, although that's rarely the case, you know, he uses the language of safety where he leans in and says, Hey, yeah, I can see that something's coming up for you. Right? I'd love to know what that is. Can you what do you feel safe enough to express it to me? Wow, no, you know, nobody, no partner deserves to go through what you're going through right now. I'm so sorry for all that history in the past. Right. What can I do in this moment to help you to feel balanced or safe or connected with? What do you need most from me? Right? That whole language of safety dialogue is so helpful 100%. 100%.

SPEAKER_03 35:12

Lots more we could say about that. And again, if you're looking for more of a deep dive on that side of things, that that's just one of many topics we cover on Dare to Connect Now or our Dare to Connect program. So love to have you come join us. Grab a two-week free trial at Dar2ConnectNow.com. We'd love to have you come take a look at that program if you uh appreciate what you hear on the podcast. It will be very helpful and very beneficial and very healing for your relationship and your individual recovery. Yeah. Yeah. Um, you know, as we uh as as we're looking at this, it is it is important to to also honor the reality that for many partners going through this process, there is a reconciliation of dual realities, right, that has to happen as part of this healing journey. Yeah. Constantly honoring the fact that, you know, where things were then while recognizing where we are now, I think is an ongoing process and something that isn't an exact science, right? For example, as a partner, being able to say that I was I, you know, for many partners that we talk to regarding the trauma response that they oftentimes exhibit or the triggers that we're talking about today, there isn't just simply a reliving of, you know, the old feelings of being hurt or wounded. It's the identity that a partner carried during that time as well. And this can happen for the addict as well. If an addict is having, you know, some sort of intrusive recall about addiction, oftentimes what makes it intrusive is isn't just the gosh, I feel like I'm getting pulled back there in terms of, you know, five years ago. I feel like my old, you know, that old headspace of being, you know, narcissistic or uncaring or unfeeling is is is kind of settling in. And for partners, that, for example, may feel like, you know, I'm feeling weak. I've I'm feeling silenced, I'm feeling like I don't have a voice, I'm feeling like I'm, you know, a victim. And it is important to distinguish and recognize that yes, then I was XYZ things. Right? This is what I was. I was in this place. I did carry this identity. This was where my headspace was. But I have done work in all these areas that bring you to this point, to the person that I am now. And even though I'm feeling those old feelings, who am I today? Who is he today? Yeah, who is he today? Right? He hurt me, wounded me, you know, did all these things in the past. Is he still that person today? And it's a question that bears an honest response because oftentimes that's part of where that trauma comes from. And we would encourage partners to lean into that question rather than be scared of it. Because that really isn't not part of the answer that might lie be behind this? Is he safe today? I don't know. Is he? Let's really look at it. Let's really consider it. Yeah. Is he? I mean, let's let's actually answer the question through facts. What is he doing in his recovery versus not? When what did the last time you had conflict in your relationship look like? How is he being accountable versus not? Is he hiding information from you today versus not? Is he emotionally vulnerable or dodgy? Right. I mean, asking those questions are important.

SPEAKER_00 38:14

Yeah, because right, a big part of healing is is is proactively on the part of the healing partner and the addict in recovery, increasing present day safety, present-day trust, present-day transparency and collaboration. And in that process, over time, progressively reducing trauma dominance.

SPEAKER_03 38:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 38:37

Right? It's it's an ongoing give and take as to how that works.

SPEAKER_03 38:41

And so what are we looking for in this process, right? Some things to look for as a partner who's pursuing their own healing in a realistic way. Again, I wish we had the message today of good news, we figured out how to turn trauma off like a light switch. Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 38:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 38:55

Um, that that does not exist. But what can we look for? We should be looking in in a healthy recovery setting where we're meeting and utilizing the necessary tools and and resources to navigate trauma healing. There should be what? Well, there should be less intensity to these kinds of triggers when they come up. Over time, they should become less frequent. Uh, there should be a quicker, I guess for lack of a better term, back bounce back factor following, right? Um, how long do I stay there versus how quickly am I able to utilize tools, tools, and skills or resources to get out of there? Um, and then the and then between those times, there should be more present moment-oriented peace, right? Um, an ability and a greater and increasing capacity to to live in the moment in all the healthy ways, right? To be able to be present today. That's that's part of the problem with trauma. We were talking about this in D to C not too long ago. One of the most pernicious things about trauma is that it keeps you oriented everywhere but where? Here. It either pulls the brain back to back then and says, Look, it was shit, it was hell, it was awful. Or says, What? Look, tomorrow's gonna be shit, it's gonna be hell, it's gonna be awful. Yeah, that's how it operates. And again, that's not I'm we're not making fun of it because that that is a healthy response when trauma is is present, when danger is present, when there is a real issue or problem or obstacle that needs to be addressed, when survival really is at stake, emotionally otherwise. Um, but but part of the healing process is as you can see from what we've talked about here, is being able to progressively more and more be able to, again, we we honor our past and we we embrace through a lens of healthy powerlessness from a 12-step approach, the the unknown of the future, but we're able to do that at not at the cost of living in the present.

SPEAKER_00 40:49

Yeah, because it we we really we encourage her not to measure her healing by whether any of these triggers ever happen again. No, it's more of the idea of yes, these memories still come up, but they don't they don't own me, they don't dominate me, right? Because her nervous system can learn safety again progressively. Um, she can create new emotional experiences in the present, and he's very helpful with that, that becomes stronger than the old traumatic memories, right? So peace and serenity in in the moment is possible, even without perfect forgetting. Right? It's possible to balance both of those realities in your world in this moment.

SPEAKER_03 41:36

Absolutely. Well, everybody, thank you for being with us today on another episode of the PBSC podcast. As always, if you like what you hear here, you will love the Dare to Connect program. We'd love to be able to connect with you on a more live, interactive level where we can answer your questions, not six to eight weeks out. That sounds like one of those old phone orders you used to make. You know, please allow six to eight weeks for processing. Uh that's about where we're at with questions in terms of backlog, and we get to them as we can. But we'd love to have you come join us. Grab a two-week free trial at DaretoConnectNow.com where you can have access, live access to us, recorded access to us. A wealth of uh advanced courses are a part of our program. Uh, an ever progressive library of prep past sessions, um, live sessions, interactive contact, five different live sessions throughout the week where you can get support and change, not just from uh myself and Mark, but from other couples just like you who are navigating really tough stuff. We have couples in our program who are day one, ground zero, brand new in recovery. We also have couples in our program who are exactly like the partner who wrote in today. Years into separating recovery. And for them, the value in the program is staying in a good place, maintaining the work that they've done, continuing, continuing to explore and expand the journey as they can. Um, we offer all that for the cost of less than a couple of therapy sessions a month, depending on where you live in the country, maybe less than one. So we hope that you'll come and join us at Daretokonnectnow.com. And for those who are wanting to send us in submissions to the podcast, you're still welcome to do so as always by going to the same site, DaretoConnectNow.com. Click on the PBSC podcast logo up at the top, and there's a contact form there where you can send those in to us.

SPEAKER_00 43:29

Yeah. Well, thanks for being with us here today. Love and appreciate all of you all all across the planet. And we will look forward to to spending time with you again in our next episode.

SPEAKER_02 43:39

Have a great week. Everything expressed on the PBSC podcast are the opinions of the hosts and the participants, and is for informational and educational purposes only. This podcast should not be considered mental health therapy or as a substitute thereof. It is strongly recommended that you seek out the clinical guidance of an individual qualified mental health professional. If you're experiencing thoughts of suicide, self harm, or a desire to harm others, please dial 911 or go to your nearest emergency room.