When Porn Addiction Evolves into AI Fantasy Using the Partner as the “Character”

In this episode (338), we explore a new but increasingly common form of betrayal: porn addiction escalating into AI-generated sexual fantasy, including the use of a partner’s image or likeness as the “character” in altered images, videos, or written sexual scenarios. The betrayed partner who wrote in described a long marriage marked by hidden pornography, years of sexual disconnection, fantasy-based online behavior, and now AI-created sexual content involving her own image. We make it clear that this does not become intimacy simply because the partner’s image is involved. If the behavior is rooted in secrecy, objectification, fantasy, comparison, escape, and compulsive sexual gratification, then it remains part of the addiction cycle.

We explain that AI has become a powerful new playground for the addict brain because it offers endless novelty, personalization, and control. The limbic system, which seeks pleasure and avoids pain, can rationalize almost anything when addiction is active. An addict may tell himself, “It’s my wife, so it’s okay,” or “This is better than traditional porn,” but those rationalizations miss the deeper reality. Using a partner’s likeness in AI fantasy without true relational connection and consent is not healing; it can actually amplify betrayal trauma by turning the partner into an object inside the addiction system. We also challenge the idea that “AI therapy,” cold turkey, or private willpower can resolve a decades-long compulsive sexual pattern.

The path forward requires both clarity and courage. The betrayed partner cannot choose recovery for the addict, but she can choose strong boundaries, outside support, betrayal-trauma healing, and a life that is not dependent on whether he finally “gets it.” The addict, meanwhile, must stop trying to do recovery on his own terms and seek real help—professional intervention, group support, daily accountability, transparency, sobriety boundaries, and long-term lifestyle change. AI may be the newest form of synthetic sexual escape, but the solution remains the same: real recovery, real accountability, real repair, and a return to authentic human connection.

For a full transcript of this podcast in article format, go to:  When Porn Addiction Evolves into AI Fantasy Using the Partner as the “Character”

Learn more about Mark and Steve's revolutionary online porn/sexual addiction recovery and betrayal trauma healing program at—daretoconnectnow.com

Find out more about Steve Moore at:  Ascension Counseling

Learn more about Mark Kastleman at:  Reclaim Counseling Services

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:00

Hey everybody, PBSC Podcast hosts Mark and Steve here with a special message about our revolutionary online recovery program for addict spouses and couples called Dare to Connect. Multiple times every week, we get messages from subscribers in the program. They're people just like you. They're trying to heal from the devastation of sex and porn addiction and betrayal trauma. And here's a few of our most recent submissions. Here's one from an addict in recovery. It says D to C has principles that everyone should utilize regardless of their circumstances. It doesn't matter your coping mechanisms, it matters that you want to work towards genuine connection with your partner.

SPEAKER_02 0:40

That's awesome. Another testimony from an addict continues on. Wow. The way Mark and Steve apply what they've learned is always so redemptive. D2C has opened doors for my relationship that I thought would be shut forever. Mark and Steve are an incredible resource of information on the subject of sex addiction and betrayal trauma. We could not do this journey without their help.

SPEAKER_01 1:10

Here's one from a partner who's been with us for nearly a year. I want you both to know that it is because of you guys and D2C that I'm able to be in the place that I am today. I will always be grateful to you both for your feedback and prompt replies to my questions. I can't even come close to putting it into words how valuable my time spent with y'all this past year has been to my life. Thank you for everything you taught me about betrayal trauma and boundaries and thinking errors and loving myself and making myself a priority and standing up for myself.

SPEAKER_02 1:46

Love that situation. And then as we close out here today, guys, one more account from another addict in recovery. I wish I had a platform like this 14 years ago where I could have learned and done the hard work of recovery before I had done all this damage to myself and to my spouse. And to be candid with all of you, that's exactly why we created Dare to Connect. You know, Mark and I found ourselves in that place. You know, messages like these and the others like them, they're what Dare to Connect really is all about, guys. And why Mark and I do what we do. Whether you're an addict or a partner of an addict, and no matter where you find yourself in the recovery process, Dare to Connect can take you to the next level. Don't wait another day to catapult your recovery forward. Today is your day for change. Visit us at dare2connectnow.com to pick up your free two-week trial of Dare to Connect today.

SPEAKER_00 2:55

And I'm Mark Castleman. We know the pain and heartbreak of porn and sex addiction. And we know the triumph of breaking completely free. Every day we help our clients find hope and healing. Join us in the fight to take back your life, your marriage, and to be stronger than ever. This is the PBST Squared Podcast.

SPEAKER_02 3:42

Uh we're jumping into a tech-oriented episode today, um, which is, you know, not a terrible deviation from what we usually do, although a little bit. And it's however novel the the topic today might be for you, because this may be something you've encountered, maybe it's something that you have not. Uh it is a sad reality that everybody who listens to our podcast and participates in our Dare to Connect program, if you aren't doing that yet, we do hope you'll come out there. Dare to connect now.com for having two-week free trial. Um, but it is something that you will encounter soon. Um most of us are familiar with the ongoing and ever uh what would I say, ever expanding as of the as of this recording uh on every front, it seems like in the technology world and corporate world uh with regard to AI technology. Data centers are being built at built at record rates, AI is advancing further and quicker and faster than ever before. Um, and that has come with some really profound blessings, as well as some, as is with any new invention, uh has has really, I think, blessed our culture and given us capacities and opportunities that we never would have had prior to its introduction. But as is the case, it also on the one hand, it has enabled and empowered many things, and on the other, it has decimated and created new avenues for destroying connection, enhancing betrayal, uh trauma, and uh other issues that many of you who listen uh each week with us so diligently face and that we can appreciate. And so that's what the submission is about. Today's title is When Porn Addiction Evolves into AI Fantasy, using the partner as the quote unquote character. So I'm gonna go ahead and just read this submission. That's probably the best way to do it, and then we will jump right in. Uh, as always, that that the information here is is triggering, so steal yourselves a bit, but we will get through this and we'll we'll have some things to share with you all that hopefully can be of help, whether you have encountered this already in your relationship or uh there or whether it may be something coming down the road, either for you, your children, those coming after us, because one thing we do know about AI is for better or worse, it is definitely not going anywhere. So here we go. And this again comes to us from a betrayed partner. I haven't found any podcasts focusing on the use of AI, uh AI porn or the addiction, using the wife as the quote unquote character for these AI created content addictions, in addition to other online content as well, of course, she says. I'm reaching out in hopes of getting perspective and guidance on a situation that has been deeply affecting my marriage. My husband and I have been married for over 20 years, and over the past six years I've come to understand that he has struggled with compulsive sexual behavior, specifically a long-term porn addiction that likely spans most of his adult life. Over 40 years, she says. Our marriage was mostly celibate for 15 years, unknown to me as to why until I accidentally discovered the extents of porn use. What has made this especially difficult is how the behavior has evolved over time. It began with traditional porn, then moved into online use and eventually into active participation in social media and group chat environments centered around fantasy and sexualized content. A recurring pattern has been fixation on a certain quote-unquote type resembling past relationships, something I do not resemble, which has added another layer of emotional distance and hurt. More recently, this has escalated into the use of AI tools to create altered images, videos, and even written fantasy scenarios. While he now often uses images of me, so of his partner, as part of these creations, they are still rooted in fantasy, comparison, and external sourcing. This doesn't feel like intimacy. It feels like a continuation of the same pattern in a different form. We have been actively trying to improve our relationship and intimacy for several years, including open conversations and attempts at behavioral change. At times we feel closer, but I continue to discover that these behaviors are ongoing, just shifting in form rather than truly stopping. He has used quote unquote AI therapy. I'm choking back on some vial a little bit, repeating that term in the quote, but that's the quote she gives many times over those five years to stop, without success, and thinks that just going quote unquote cold turkey will work with true pro without true professional intervention and structured programs. I care about my husband and our marriage, but I also don't want to lose myself in the process of trying to fix something I can't control. I would truly appreciate any insight that you could share. Wow.

SPEAKER_01 8:16

Yeah, wow. And I, you know, we have to say with where technology has come, where it is, where it's going, um, we are seeing this, we've been seeing this coming for a long time. And it's part of uh what has really concerned Steve and I and so many and uh of our colleagues in our profession. Um, you know, when she this whole use of AI now, AI generated pornography, AI generated images, AI generated fantasies, stories, even videos. I mean, we're not gonna we we're not gonna go into all that AI can do with regard to the creation of things pornographic because it's it's out of control and off the charts, and I also don't want to give anybody ideas that doesn't know about it, but it is it is becoming and is largely out of control. It uh man, there's there's parts of this submission that really that really hit me. Steve and I have done over over the last 20 plus years, a big part of what we do has been a really in-depth study of the human brain. Um I actually wrote several books about how pornography impacts the human brain. And one of the things that we know based on how what we call the limbic, the limbic system, right? It's the it's the the middle part of the brain abro above your brain stem that's about all things, uh pursuing pleasure and avoiding pain, right? Those are its two top priorities. And that limbic system, I like to say it has a mind of its own. It's completely separate from the prefrontal cortex, right? The the the brain behind your forehead, where logic, reason, responsibility, accountability, you know, thoughts or feelings of those I love, right, all that stuff that that resides with responsible decision making, that's not the limbic system. The limbic system will pursue anything and everything it can pursue to avoid pain and to pursue pleasure. You take all of, you take that kind of motivation in a brain system, and you throw this technology in there with AI, and basically it's it's the limbic system's playground. No limits now. There's no limitation to the novelty, there's no limitation to the amount of fantasy or creation. And as she says, he's he's even now he's using images of me to produce the AI pornography. Because what does his what does his limbic brain want to rationalize or justify with that? Well, it's my wife. So it's it's it's okay, right? That's that's actually bringing that's it that's the logic or reason that that limbic system tries to use. So we validate uh her whole thing, right? Using her image for AI-generated sexual fantasy is not relational, intimate, or safe. It's not, no matter how much, you know, no matter how much the brain wants to rationalize or justify that. And the thing is, this is not just you know what what kind of content he's using, but and this is all part of an overall addiction pattern. This is this is what we want all of you who are listening to to get your arms around. People can argue all day long about whether something's pornographic, or what source am I using, or did I involve my partner, or right? There's there's there's a there's a hundred different rationalizations that you can use, but this is all part of a pattern, regardless of what source that you're tapping into. For what? Secrecy, fantasy, objectification, comparison, escape, right? It's all part of the addiction pattern. And when she says this, this just feels like it's the same addiction wearing a new costume, she's right. And we could we could do this entire podcast just on the brain science, the neuroscience of what's happening for this guy, and so many across the planet like him. I mean, this this is so disturbing to me. I've been watching this for for years now, and it's yeah, it's it's not headed in a good place.

SPEAKER_02 13:05

Yeah, no, a hundred percent. Will and I, you know, and and I mentioned this as I was reading the uh you know the original submission. I'm not sure where this this partner picked up this term AI therapy. Um I just wanted to say something.

SPEAKER_01 13:23

It's it's being bantered about the about the internet. I've seen it. There are people that are actually turning to AI for quote therapy.

SPEAKER_02 13:30

Well, and and yeah, that's a whole other discussion, right? Where we're using like AI as a therapist. That's that's a whole other thing. But and and I and I don't know, maybe I have colleagues out there that would disagree with me. There probably are the the the realm of sexual addiction recovery and that whole topic, as you know, is it is a somewhat debated one, uh, those who are familiar with it. But for me personally and professionally, I would challenge the notion that any sort of simulated sexual encounter particularly, although not necessarily exclusively without the consent of a partner. And you're and and and and using their likeness, their image, their voice, their whatever as a part of that. That is a lot of things. To call it therapy is not clinically sound.

SPEAKER_01 14:19

I think it's it wasn't clear in her submission if he was she was saying he was using AI generated images, you know, AI generated with her images as part of a therapy, or whether he's turned to AI therapy to break out of pornography.

SPEAKER_02 14:34

Yeah, it wasn't. Well, I and and so we're not sure, but just so we can set the record straight from where this podcast and its hosts stand, uh to postulate any sort of synthetic substitution with your partner, again, especially with, although it doesn't necessarily just without their consent, there are other elements that are problematic as well. To call that anything therapeutic or connecting on any level, I hope that he's not somehow assertive that or inferred that that is something or or or something that that is something or or something that would be considered as such. Um I would consider it personally morally reprehensible. As a clinician, I would consider it to be on a professional level, uh, at best a substitution and and not a true replacement, which is really just a craw a cross or or co-addiction, if you want to really get clinical about it. I'm just filling I'm just filling this void with yet again something inauthentic, not real, fantasy-based. And and personally, I mean I can't speak to this partner and any partner, right? Betrayal is always in the eye of the beholder. But as a if I were to find out that my partner were using my likeness in an image in these kinds of things, and pairing it with other attributes that they found more desirable, you know, as a way to somehow gain sexual gratification, I would be deeply offended.

SPEAKER_01 16:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 16:03

Um, and and and whatever else I might feel in that dialogue with my partner going forward, connection's not going to be one of those things. So that's those are just Steve's thoughts.

SPEAKER_01 16:16

And this is not just AI, you know, Steve, you and I, for for probably the whole duration of our careers have seen what happened. Porn and sex addicts who will try to use alternative means to do something that's less harmful, less addictive, less whatever. And it will often involve their partners. And they'll try to, they'll try to engage their partners in some form of their porn or sex addiction. And by engaging their partners in it, it's not harmful. Or it's right, it's part of recovery. And we have seen guys attempt that countless times over the last couple of decades. And I cannot think of a single example where it turned out well. Now, a lot of times, betrayed partners are pulled into that web innocently. They don't know what it is that they're agreeing to engage in because they don't understand the workings of the addict brain. Right. Uh, often so many times over our experience, we would have betrayed partners talk about how a guy, you know, the the addict would pornify the bedroom in our in our marriage or partnership. And I, you know, the betrayed partners would express deep regret and even shame at times for having participated in in sexual acts that were not authentic or healthy or moral or what you know, whatever label you want to put, because they thought, well, this is this will help him be healthy. I can't think of a single time any of this has turned out well because that that limbic system in the attic brain is what? It's insatiable. It cannot be satisfied, it will not be content when it is feeding itself on these kinds of practices. It just wants more and more and more. It doesn't matter if it involves the partner or not, even with the partner's involvement, it's still going to be insatiable. It is, it never, it never comes to connection or resolution or or healthy outcomes.

SPEAKER_02 18:23

Any addictive pattern that is dysfunctional in nature, be it chemical, be it emotional, be it relational, be it sexual, um, is always going to be progressively addictive and destructive.

SPEAKER_01 18:35

Yep.

SPEAKER_02 18:36

Um, it will always come at more and more costs, and the and the collateral damage to not just oneself and the the people, but also the people around them will just continue to mount. It's it that's that's what the evidence has shown. That's what the research shows. It's simply just it's it's addiction physics. Addiction physics, that's a good idea. Compulsion physics for lack. I mean, it's just it's it's like addiction gravity. It's just it's just it's nature.

SPEAKER_01 18:59

It's well and here's the here's the part that really that deeply concerns both you and I. Because of the sophistication of this technology now, these these sound principles of recovery, people say they they now don't apply. Well, yeah, there was addiction physics and the way addiction works with the old system. We're now in the AI realm. So those things with regard to neuroscience and addiction and recovery, those don't really apply. But what do we see here? This, yeah, this guy's this guy's addiction has taken on this really complex sophistication through AI methods. He's still not addressing the underlying issues, right? His underlying wounds, his coping patterns, his entitlement, right, his his integrity abuse, all the ways he's not facing life on life's terms or engaging in this relationship as a real relationship. He's not facing any of that. And he's all he's caught up in this new sophisticated technology that makes it even more difficult to say, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, regardless of the delivery mechanism, what's under all this? What's at the core? And if I want to be in recovery and if I want to heal this relationship, I've got to get to the core. And I just see AI these days as totally distracting from ever from some people ever asking that question ever again. Just more sophistication, right?

SPEAKER_02 20:24

Well, it's just well, and it it it when you're talking about, and and you know, we cover this extensively in our Dare to Connect program. I mean, so much of what we're doing here, again, the program's titled Dare to Connect for a Reason. We founded this podcast, our personal and professional experience dictates it as both addicts and therapists, and we created the Dare to Connect program on on the fundamental concept that at the source of sexual addiction and betrayal um among whatever else is going on, there is a fundamental lack of authentic connection with the self and with others. And if you were in the only way to find healing from that is through not more substitutes, it's not through more synthetic things or more realistic things or making an AI character that looks just like your wife with you know different body broke profiles. In fact, I'd say that's a horrible bastardization and and actually turn away from intimacy that way. It's it only comes through finding and helping a person to link up with what they've been missing all along, as well as fixing whatever damage took them to where they were in the first place, be it trauma, be it other deficits, be it whatever the case is. And as long as we continue down that road of synthetic replacement, in this case it's AI, but it could be anything else. Right. AI may be more interactive. It may look more convincing. It may be all these other things. But it's just the newest iteration in a long line of tools with regard to replacement for authentic, genuine sexual connection.

SPEAKER_01 22:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 22:18

They say they say that, you know, the sex industry is the world's oldest profession. And it's true. It's been going on since the beginning of time. And this is just the latest iteration that we're looking at. But the solutions still, the solutions still remain the same. Good therapy, sound psychological concepts, repairing of exit of existing and ongoing damage, but also meeting authentic, genuine needs through healthy, sustainable connecting ways.

SPEAKER_01 22:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 22:51

That's what 40 years combined between the two of us, personally and professionally, tells us.

SPEAKER_01 23:03

Well, and I and we're we're deeply concerned as she describes that he some somewhere in that limbic brain, that addict brain of his, he believes that what she says has been going on his entire adult life, 40 years, right? Four decades of compulsive sexual behavior that he can resolve that through, as she calls it, going cold turkey, right? Willpower, white knuckling that we call it. Or that somehow he could do that through uh it's through an AI therapy, through, through a synthetic therapy. So there's the whole synthetic part sexually going on for him, and then he seeks solutions by through synthetic therapy, right? That's not going to get to the core issues here. It's got to be structured human support, right? This guy's got to be involved in group group therapy and support. He needs daily accountability, he needs trauma-informed therapy. There he doesn't talk about whether there's ever even been a full disclosure, formal disclosure, therapeutic disclosure process. How about changing his long-term lifestyle choices, his daily habits? I mean, we could go on and on and on with what needs to take place here. This is not a simple answer. This is not where he wants to get this in a neat little box. It cannot work. Right? AI can provide information, but it can't replace real relational accountability, professional intervention, community-based recovery resources. And obviously can can never replace true connection and intimacy in his relationship. So it's it's on it's it's on the wrong path in every way.

SPEAKER_02 24:46

100%. Um so let's kind of bring this back to bring this back to this coupleship, right? And let's talk, go back to this partner's reality a little bit. Um, Karen, because she's the one who wrote us, there that right, we have the dynamic at play in this specific situation is we have a partner who's been dealing with this for 40 years. Um, he has made efforts, quote unquote, to varying degrees to try to stop, though it's clear that they are um either reluctant at times, resistant at times, or kind of the bare minimum, as opposed to thoroughly wanting to tackle these things, at least on on doing recovery on recovery's terms. He's he's very much caught. It sounds like many men are uh trying to do if if this was me, it's the Steve plan for recovery, right? I'm gonna I'm gonna I'm gonna put my version of it. And and again, that never that never works. So, and this pattern's been going on for decades in this marriage. So uh we do validate, first of all, the exhaustion, right? This woman has has been around literally for decades trying to make this different, trying to understand, trying to be empathetic, trying to assist and support. Has she probably done it all perfectly? Probably not. Um, but she is very much wanting to make change here and is being met with decreased efforts on on the part of her partner, is probably a good way to put it. Um, or or or not not equal efforts on the part of her partner. Um, and and we love what she said. And she's very much balanced in what she says at the end. I want to know what I can and can't control. And she recognizes I can't control him, and we would absolutely assert the same. You can't control him. This is one of the hardest part parts about navigate, excuse me, navigating effective boundaries in a relationship with anybody. Because navigating true boundaries with another person, contrary to what a lot of people think when they hear the topic of boundaries, doesn't mean control. It means actually the opposite. Because true boundaries with another person always acknowledges their autonomy first. That's how boundaries work. It's step one to setting boundaries. If I'm going to set boundaries, they have to be with regard to my own conduct, how I respond to situations, and how I choose to navigate based on the actions or inactions of others. Because I can't control what they're going to do. I can't navigate those outcomes. And so, and and the closer we become, come in a relationship, the more we have to honor and acknowledge that. And so being continuing to be with this man, first and foremost, means, among whatever else it means, that at the end of the day, he is going to make decisions about what he will and will not do as far as uh an approach to recovery uh means. Um, he's going to continue to dictate or decide how much is quote unquote enough or quote unquote sufficient or whatever the case is. She should absolutely be asserting and sharing what her needs are. But in the same view, she also needs to be turning a lens to, and it sounds like she's already thinking about it, but what is sustainable for her versus what is not? How long does she want to continue to pursue this versus how long she doesn't? And where does that incompatibility reach a critical mass to where look, I simply can't continue forward in this, right? Given where you're at.

SPEAKER_01 28:24

He's betrayed me now, I'm betraying myself. And it's it's a it's a really awful, terrible place to be. And we absolutely, our hearts go out to her and and all you know, betrayed partners listening. Right. So she can't make him do recovery, she can't, she can't choose his recovery for him. She she in no way is responsible to to you know keep track of him every day. So what can she choose? Well, as you said, Steve, she can choose very clear boundaries around her wants and needs and the outcomes when those boundaries are violated. Again, or upheld. Or upheld, right? Yeah, outcomes if if if the boundaries are upheld or not.

SPEAKER_02 29:09

Boundaries cut both ways. They're not just like they're not centered just around negative outcomes. They help a person to also decide, okay, this person is able to keep and is willing to keep these boundaries. Thus, I I just like I might have to pull back if they're not, I can, I can, I can maybe re-engage more if they are.

SPEAKER_01 29:31

Exactly. Yep. They're yeah, but both both ways on that. We would highly encourage her, if she hasn't done this, to make sure that she has her outside support system that's not dependent on what he does or doesn't do, right? Or or that doesn't that it's all riding on whether he quote gets it finally. She's got to have a support system that doesn't rely on that. And so specialized betrayal trauma support, uh, a group. Yes, we we love uh 12-step groups of various kinds where there are other betrayed partners who support each other, right, who are farther down the path than she is, right? Her whole system needs to be in place that's outside of him. Right. So that's you know, just just all of that for her. Because it's hard when you're when you're caught in it, when you're when you're in the trenches of it to be able to see a lot of things clearly. You're just too close to it.

SPEAKER_02 30:28

Well, and as we kind of wrap this up, because I know that there's there's a I mean, there's a lot that we could say. First, first and foremost, again, this is the the first thing I want to say um is that universal message, just highlighting it one more time. We don't know the specifics of this situation, whether again, he's referring to this AI stuff as just, well, I'm using it as a therapist, or if he's somehow terming, you know, the pornography, well, it's synthetic and it's you, so that's therapeutic for me. Or we're not sure what they mean by that.

SPEAKER_00 30:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 30:56

But to just be very clear, never once in my in my professional career, and I know Mark feels the same way, and never once in my personal recovery work did seeking better, other, more significant, more whatever substitutes doing so pursuing that line of logic in an effort to quote unquote get better will never work. Um, it simply isn't going to. Uh not only that, um utilizing or or again uh uh harnessing, capitalizing on implementing a partner's likeness, image, face, characteristics, whatever, in a virtual sense, perpetu, especially and foremost without their consent or or invitation, is going to greatly amplify uh the trauma on the part of a partner and take whatever is going on in the relationship in terms of conflict and discord and and take it to a whole new level.

SPEAKER_01 32:00

Well, can we be blunt about that? Every time he engages in those behaviors, whether it involves her image or not, he is feeding that limbic system. He's feeding that addict brain. Which is co-opting her in the process, and he's co-opting her right into the process. Correct. And so he's not operating from his true, his true, authentic, higher real self. He's feeding the part of him that is an imposter that's fake. And so the whole thing is a is is is the a track of disaster. Every time he engages in these behaviors, he's feeding the side of him that can never heal this relationship, can never make amends to her, can never repair. So he's got to get to the place where he goes and gets real help, not AI therapy, and start to decide whether he is going to start to put clear sobriety boundaries around his own behaviors in life.

SPEAKER_02 33:00

Well, and part of that, I mean, and we do base this on what she has said, just again, we only have the one perspective, right? But this is the other Mark's alluding to the other thing that I want to make sure we say. To every addict listening, recovery is not going to happen on your terms. It never did for me, just speaking personal for a minute. God knows I tried. As a therapist, as not a therapist, as a civilian, quote unquote, I I tried to recovery never happens on our terms. Our terms, to quote, my therapist growing up are is what got my ass on his couch, paying him X amount of dollars an hour. Yep. Yep. Yes, my very best efforts. I however good I was at helping other people, when I got into recovery, the reality was is me trying to navigate my own stuff on my terms got me paying him doing the same thing.

SPEAKER_01 33:49

I was in a group years ago where I was in early recovery trying to defend my way and resisting what was being brought up in the group. And you know what the group leader said to me? Mark, it was your best thinking that got you in that chair right there. Yep, exactly.

SPEAKER_02 34:06

Yep, and and and and and we don't pretend to be the arbiters of all things recovery, but we have walked that road, gentlemen. Please do not try to reinvent the wheel. If you are listening to this and you still have it in your head somehow that your approach to this or some sort of half measure is going to work, again, we just would invite you not to reinvent the wheel. We'll honor your choice to do so, but your wife may not be around for it when you try to do your next iteration.

SPEAKER_01 34:31

Trust us, we can save you decades of pain as the addict, and we can we can save your partner continuing awful betrayal in your relationship. Stop trying to do it your way.

SPEAKER_02 34:42

Yep, absolutely. Um, whatever's going to happen forward going with this couple, there needs to be transparency on his part, which it sounds like is lacking. There needs to be proactivity on his part, which it also sounds like is lack lacking, and there needs to be a dedication to consistency based on the input and feedback from professionals who know what they're talking about, as opposed to the addict's shame, pain averse, distorted, humanistic, uninformed thinking. That's the best way I think that we could say that. Um, guys, as we as always, if you like what you hear here, Dare to Connect, if you appreciate the sometimes amazing, occasionally dry humor paired with solid recovery concepts, if you like the real world perspective paired with world-class therapy from two guys who've done a lot spent a lot of time and a lot of energy being certified and in doing what we do and in being at the top of what we do. You will love the Dare to Connect program. Please come join us. Grab a two-week free trial at DaretoConnectnow.com. There's never a better time to join. We are right now as of the day of this recording in June of 2026. Have just begun a new lengthy module into the uh workings of internal family systems, uh, navigating internal protectors, uh, fresh look and take on trauma, how it plays out with addiction, how it plays out in a coupleship, uh, definitely a module among the many others we offered, not to be missed. We hope you'll grab that two-week free trial at DaretoConnectNow.com and come and join us. As always, uh, if you would like to send us uh correspondence to uh to the podcast and and are okay with a snail mail response, um we're happy to accommodate that as well. We always appreciate you listening here um commercial free as always, except for any ads that we put in for our program. Uh, but we never put in outside stuff, we don't monetize this podcast. You're welcome to send those to the same uh email address or excuse me, uh web address at daretaconnectnow.com. Click on the PVC podcast link at the top, and there's a contact form there you can reach out to us on. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 36:46

As always, thanks for being here with us. Appreciate uh all of you. And uh we will pick things up in our next episode.

SPEAKER_02 37:22

Everything expressed on the PVSC podcast are the opinions of the hosts and the participants, and is for informational and educational purposes only. This podcast should not be considered mental health therapy or as a substitute thereof. It is strongly recommended that you seek out the clinical guidance of an individual qualified mental health professional. If you're experiencing thoughts of suicide, self harm, or desire to harm others, please dial 911 or go to your nearest emergency room.