Sexualized Media, Movies & Other Content—Can They Ever Be Safe Again in True Recovery?

In this episode (339), we explore whether sexualized media, movies with nudity, provocative social media, and other triggering content can ever be considered “safe” again in true recovery from pornography addiction or compulsive sexual behavior. The question comes from a betrayed partner who wonders why sex addiction is sometimes treated differently from chemical addictions, where sobriety usually means avoiding the substance and the people, places, and cues connected to use. We acknowledge that sexual addiction is complicated because sexuality is part of human biology and relational intimacy, but we strongly caution against using that complexity to minimize the power of old addictive pathways.

We explain that pornography and sexual addiction can activate the brain in ways that are very similar to substance addiction, and that visual cues, fantasy, nudity, social media, and sexualized content can quickly reactivate old neural patterns. Because of this, the recovery question cannot be, “Can I technically watch this and not relapse today?” The better question is, “Will engaging with this protect my recovery, my partner’s emotional safety, our relationship, and my integrity?” We emphasize that real recovery is not about driving as close to the cliff as possible without going over; it is about choosing to stay far from the edge because sobriety, trust, and connection are too valuable to risk.

We also speak directly to the relational impact of this issue. Betrayed partners should not be forced into the role of policewoman, constantly monitoring content, apps, movies, and social media. What partners often long for is proactive leadership: an addict who says, “Your fears make sense given my history, and I want to put boundaries in place that protect me, you, and us.” True recovery is not about returning to the old “normal” or proving that certain content can be handled. It is about building a new life of transparency, humility, accountability, self-respect, and relational safety, where boundaries are not punishment but protection for the freedom, intimacy, and trust the couple is trying to rebuild.

For a full transcript of this podcast in article format, go to:  Sexualized Media, Movies & Other Content—Can They Ever Be Safe Again in True Recovery?

Learn more about Mark and Steve's revolutionary online porn/sexual addiction recovery and betrayal trauma healing program at—daretoconnectnow.com

Find out more about Steve Moore at:  Ascension Counseling

Learn more about Mark Kastleman at:  Reclaim Counseling Services

Transcript

SPEAKER_03 0:00

Hey everybody, PBSC Podcast hosts Mark and Steve here with a special message about our revolutionary online recovery program for addict spouses and couples called Dare to Connect. Multiple times every week, we get messages from subscribers in the program. They're people just like you. They're trying to heal from the devastation of sex and porn addiction and betrayal trauma. And here's a few of our most recent submissions. Here's one from an addict in recovery. It says D2C has principles that everyone should utilize regardless of their circumstances. It doesn't matter your coping mechanisms, it matters that you want to work towards genuine connection with your partner. That's awesome.

SPEAKER_01 0:41

Another testimony from an addict continues on. Wow. The way Mark and Steve apply what they've learned is always so redemptive. D2C has opened doors for my relationship that I thought would be shut forever. Mark and Steve are an incredible resource of information on the subject of sex addiction and betrayal trauma. We could not do this journey without their help.

SPEAKER_03 1:10

Here's one from a partner who's been with us for nearly a year. I want you both to know that it is because of you guys and D2C that I'm able to be in the place that I am today. I will always be grateful to you both for your feedback and prompt replies to my questions. I can't even come close to putting it into words how valuable my time spent with y'all this past year has been to my life. Thank you for everything you taught me about betrayal trauma and boundaries and thinking errors and loving myself and making myself a priority and standing up for myself.

SPEAKER_01 1:46

Love that. Love that submission. And then as we close out here today, guys, one more account from another addict in recovery. I wish I had a platform like this 14 years ago where I could have learned and done the hard work of recovery before I had done all this damage to myself and to my spouse. And to be candid with all of you, that's exactly why we created Dare to Connect. You know, Mark and I found ourselves in that place. You know, messages like these and the others like them, they're what Dare to Connect really is all about, guys, and why Mark and I do what we do. Whether you're an addict or a partner of an addict, and no matter where you find yourself in the recovery process, Dare to Connect can take you to the next level. Don't wait another day to catapult your recovery forward. Today is your day for change. Visit us at DareToconnectNow.com to pick up your free two-week trial of Dare to Connect today.

SPEAKER_02 2:50

Hey everybody, I'm Steve Moore. And I'm Mark Castleman. We know the pain and heartbreak of porn and sex addiction. And we know the triumph of breaking completely free. Every day we help our clients find hope and healing. Join us in the fight to take back your life, your marriage, and be stronger than ever. This is the PBST Squared Podcast.

SPEAKER_03 3:47

Can they ever be, quote, safe, unquote, again in recovery?

SPEAKER_01 3:53

All right. Let's do it's a topic of debate. This is good. We like this. This is awesome.

SPEAKER_03 4:00

Yes. This one this one comes to us from a betrayed partner who's in the healing process. And she is still with her addict partner who's in recovery. And here's what she shares. She says, I was wondering if this is a topic you might be willing to discuss on your podcast from a clinical and recovery perspective. I'm glad she said that. I understand that with many addictions, recovery often involves avoiding or completely removing things connected to the addictive behavior. For example, recovering alcoholics are often encouraged to avoid bars or drinking environments. From my understanding, a recovering alcoholic is generally advised not to drink again at all because there is such a high risk of reactivating the addiction cycle. And recovering drug addicts are often encouraged to avoid people, environments, or triggers associated with past drug use. Similarly, a recovering drug addict is generally advised not to return to using drugs because of the likelihood of relapse and returning to addictive behavior patterns. So I'm struggling to understand why pornography addiction or compulsive sexual behavior would be viewed differently. If someone has historically used pornography, sexualized movies, social media, et cetera, as part of their acting out cycle, escalation or compulsive behavior, wouldn't continued exposure to those things risk reactivating the same neural pathways and addictive patterns? From a clinical and recovery perspective, how are situations like this typically viewed? Is recovery generally about learning moderation with previously sexualized or triggering content? Or is it more common or recommended to permanently remove or strongly limit exposure to things that were historically connected to the addictive cycle? My husband believes that after a certain amount of sobriety, he should be able to watch movies with nudity and sexual content again or use so social media platforms normally. My concern is that these are things he previously used as a part of his acting out behavior. And I'm afraid that these could lead him back into full pornography just because he thinks they're harmless. I'm trying to understand this in a way that protects both his recovery and our relationship safety. And I would truly appreciate your perspective.

SPEAKER_01 6:50

I uh I'm trying to think, and and you know, we are this is episode like Mark said, episode 339, so it's not like this podcast is new. Um we have probably covered this at some point in some form or fashion.

SPEAKER_03 7:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 7:06

And it's definitely touched on in many episodes, but just really I I I really appreciate the I think the directness of the directness with the questions around the subtlety, I guess is what comes to mind, right? Because real life, real recovery is not black and white. It's crazy. Right? Um it would wouldn't it be awesome if the world was just like black and white, good and evil, healthy, toxic? That would be that'd be wonderful. And there are things in life where that is the case, but when you're talking about recovery, when you're talking about origins of addiction and a path forward and rebuilding trust in a relationship and establishing and maintaining integrity and uh defining sobriety, I mean, all of that the list would just go on for 20 minutes about all the different pieces of this puzzle. Um, it is gray. And it becomes grayer when you are talking about, as she indicated, sexual compulsion or addiction versus which is a what's referred to as a process addiction, um, similar to like food addiction, for example, where it's an it's an addiction or compulsion that stems from a basic biological existing premise or or push, as opposed to something that's uh what people think of as typical addictions, so drugs, alcohol, something that's external to the system that was artificially introduced. Um and so it becomes even messier because the journey for and we've said this before, if I'm working with a heroin addict, Mark and I have both worked in substance abuse, there is a black and white to that in most cases. I with sobriety, first of all, heroin needle went in my arm, Steve, I relapsed. Heroin needle didn't go in my arm, Steve, I didn't relapse. There you go. Sober versus not, right? It's it's pretty simple. But when you're talking about sexuality, for example, did I go to fantasy or not? Was that fantasy quote unquote healthy or not? How long was I there? How far did I take that and manifest it into action, right? I mean, there are so many questions that attend to the safety in the coupleship, the integrity of the recovery of the individual. And so it is, it's complicated.

SPEAKER_03 9:27

Um, and I think if we as we open up this topic, yes, uh pornography addiction, sexual addiction, sexual compulsion, there are some important ways that it is different from substance abuse. But I think we have to be very careful not to discount the fact that in many ways they are the same from a neuroscience standpoint. And over the last couple of decades, there have been some really uh competent and serious scientists who have done, for example, extensive brain scan work to look at the to look at the human brain under the influence of cocaine or heroin or uh other drugs and compare those brain scans to that to an addict brain that's under the under the influence of sexual, sexual images, pornography, right? Nudity, et cetera, et cetera. And the conclusions were very uh clear-cut. The same regions of the brain that are activated in illicit drug use are the same regions in in many ways that are activated when a pornography or sex advocate is accessing those uh that content. The brains look almost identical. And so you look at that. I I remember years ago uh I was working with uh a group that was doing some study about the neuroscience surrounding addiction, and one of the things that was uh very powerful were that a lot of uh the uh substance abusing individuals that we were treating would often talk about, for example, going to donate blood. And as soon as they would go to donate blood, when they would see the needle, just the needle sitting on the tray ready to be used to withdraw the blood, withdraw the blood from them, they would immediately start going into uh uh an addiction memory loop where they would start to feel the pull, start to feel a lot of the feelings and a and and a lot of the same kinds of neurochemicals would start to release in their system just by the sight of a needle. Right? Very powerful. Now, if you take those who have who have struggled with pornography addiction, sexual addiction, and compulsion, the same kind of process applies. If I if I see some provocative material, if I see uh I'll just I'm gonna be very uh personal with regard to me in in my recovery. Like the like the like the heroin addict with the needle, if I see lingerie, if I see uh bikini models, if I see my brain will absolutely react to that. And I can I can feel to this day the wiring will go in that direction if I am not very vigilant and watchful, uh carefully considering my intentions, carefully considering where I am at in life. How am I dealing with stress? How am I dealing with fear? How am I dealing with whatever? Those those images, just like the just like the sight of a needle for the for the heroin addict, operate very much the same way for the porn and recovering porn and sex addict, make no mistake. I think it's important to make sure we understand that neuroscience.

SPEAKER_01 12:45

No, for sure, and there is that chemical right uh precedent where like she and she rightly indicates this in there, right? There is anytime you're engaging with a behavior that is similar, similar or even more so with one's addictive profile, even when it's healthy, there are of course inherent risks to that. Absolutely. And and again, this is another element of where this gets complicated because every and and this this uh partner doesn't elaborate on this, but everyone's addiction profile is so different. For example, the addict who has incorporated pornography in some form or fashion into the sexual relationship with his dedicated, his or her dedicated partner is going to be facing very different challenges in recovery than one who hasn't. Um, because there it become, as you might imagine, that becomes more complicated, right, when it comes to separating the toxic from the healthy. And so there is no one size fits all answer on today's podcast for this because of that inherent difference. But we did want to talk about some of the elements of this and try to answer her question from the best, you know, best possible perspective that that we can give.

SPEAKER_03 13:53

You know, well, and Steve, as you're as you're talking, I remember a story you you told uh years ago. Uh it's kind of the old, uh, you know, it's the old trucker story, right? A company's interviewing truckers to see who can drive this this big rig along this really narrow canyon road and do it safely. And so guys are coming in to interview for the trucker's job. And and all of them are saying, well, I can come within 12 inches of the edge of that cliff and and not uh not have the truck go, well, I can come in through, I can come within six inches. Yeah, I have three in right. There's this big argument going on about how close they can come to the edge with not going over, with not going over. And then one guy comes in and he says to the interviewer, I am gonna stay as far away from that edge as I possibly can. And he got the job. Yeah. Right? That's a very, very good metaphor that you've used over the years with regard to us in recovery. You're gonna go to all the edging behaviors and take it as close as you can get it, or are you gonna stay as far away from that edge as you as you can? Not not just for your sake, but also for your partner's sake.

SPEAKER_01 15:05

Yeah. No, a hundred percent. And and again, we, you know, our Mark and I, you know, the PBSC podcast is all about individual recovery, of course, but it is about coupleships and healing relationships and things. And so this becomes even more complex because we're not just for most of you listening today, uh, there might there are probably some single addicts, for example, or single betrayed partners out there who pay patron the podcast, and we love and appreciate you, but we know that the majority are trying to invest and recover in in relationships of one sort or another. And so if you're bringing that dynamic on board while you can't and never should own one another's recovery, right? Because that's rule number one, the actions that we take and don't take do play a huge role into that. And and they and and they what might be helpful or healthy for one person could still be very damaging to the relationship.

SPEAKER_03 16:02

That's a good point. Yeah. Um I mean, yeah, and you and I have seen this over uh I had some of these attitudes early on in my recovery, you and I have seen it many times, where a guy starts to get some good sobriety, he starts to you know get on the good, strong recovery path. And what's the first thing that they start to ask? When can I get back to normal life? When can I get back to things, things the way they were? Right? And when their partner starts to express her pain and her fears and her concern, she can be labeled as controlling or paranoid or unreasonable when she's asking whether previously sexualized content should remain off limits or not. Right? A betrayed partner that goes through complex trauma, gaslighting, integrity abuse, the guy living in a secret sexual basement for years or decades, for her to ask these kinds of questions is not controlling, paranoid, or unreasonable. And we really need to, we as guys in recovery, we really need to lean in and sit with our partners on their side of these things when we start to ask these questions.

SPEAKER_01 17:12

Yeah, 100%. Well, and and so let and let's do let's do just state some obvious things really quick. We won't spend much time on this, but but just for sake of clarification, because we've, you know, the the the partner who wrote us in, as well as what we've talked about here, um it goes without saying pornography addiction or sexual addiction in most cases doesn't carry a lot of the same physical consequences as other addictions that are that it's compared to in the submission. But it's by no means less serious, right? It's important that we honor and recognize the fact that and in fact I've heard this from both addicts and partners dealing with chemical addiction, because it's very common for those of you who don't know for there to be crossover into the sexual addiction realm with chemical addiction.

SPEAKER_03 18:01

It's almost yeah, I'd uh from our when we were both involved in in drug and alcohol rehab clinics, I mean, I would say it was 90%.

SPEAKER_01 18:12

Yeah, at a clinic that I worked at that was an in-home, it was a uh inpatient uh facility for chemical addiction. They a lot of the the addicts there kind of word went around that I was sort of the sex guy, you know, as a certified sex addiction therapist. And guy after guy would come into our individual sessions and inevitably they'd want to talk about that.

SPEAKER_03 18:33

I had the same, I had the exact same experience.

SPEAKER_01 18:36

And so, and so lots and lots of lots and lots of crossover, but it it's no less serious. But we've heard from them and as well as from partners that actually this is harder, it's both more challenging to beat in terms of sobriety, but also more threatening to the relationship. Many partners, for example, are able to not all, but many are able to, because the chemical addiction is like this outside issue, right? They're better able to uh more readily and quickly and consistently distance themselves from it, right? Like this is you, this is you and the heroin, this is you and the whatever. But when we talk about sex, well, this is us, this is our coupleship, right? This is our intimacy, this is us choosing one another, this is our fidelity, right? It hits on all of those things.

SPEAKER_03 19:22

Yeah, this is this is you comparing my body to the bodies of thousands of other women. Correct. This is significant.

SPEAKER_01 19:29

So for many partners, if you ask them, they will say, Yeah, I I I mean, obviously the the the chemical stuff will kill him, and that scares me, but this makes this makes me feel exponentially more unsafe than the other. Um, so anyway, just want to make sure we kind of mention that as we go through here. Um, and and going back to Mark's point, right? The this idea of I I actually put a uh bullet point in our production notes here that I just want to kind of leave this out with because there is a mentality, and she talks about it in her submission, this partner, that and for every addict listening, can I just tell you this should be a red flag? I don't care who you are, why you're here, whatever. It is always dangerous to be operating in a recovery space with predetermined ideas of what the end result is going to be in terms of what my life post-recovery, quote unquote, or in recovery or whatever is going to look like. Because you running your own show, I guarantee you, to one degree or another, is what got you in this mess in the first place. It did me. We were talking about this on Dare to Connect in the addict session on Monday, and we and I did and and I hit on that. This the Steve plan for recovery works really well with a lot of my clients. Not trying to tune my own horn, but Mark and I, we're pretty good at what we do, we think we get that feedback from clients frequently, but I have example after example where the Steve plan sucks for Steve. I cannot run my own recovery exclusively, and I cannot assign expectations to how it should look or how it's going to play out or whatever. The minute I start going down that road, the minute I'm setting myself up for a variety of potential issues.

SPEAKER_03 21:10

Well, I remember years ago I was sitting in the group early in recovery, impressing everybody around the room with my my impressive vocabulary of recovery jargon. And I remember the guy who was running the group was a kind of a crusty old counselor, and he'd look me straight in the eye and said, Mark, let's just stop the BS. Your best thinking landed you in this chair. It's like, okay.

SPEAKER_01 21:37

Yeah, for sure.

SPEAKER_03 21:39

Yeah. And I and I think, you know, I think we need to be clear. Like, can you imagine, Steve, when you and I were uh in in the drug and alcohol rehab clinics looking at a guy in recovery and saying, you know, the goal here for you is moderation. We want to learn how to moderately use cocaine or heroin or meth. Or how to just drink socially, but but not take it too far. So this rehab facility is all about you learning to live in moderation. How long do you think we would have kept our jobs?

SPEAKER_01 22:11

That would not have lasted long for a lot of reasons. No.

SPEAKER_03 22:16

And not just we would have we would have been terminated, we would have been terminated for a good reason. It never works. I can't think, for example, I had guys that uh were treated for alcoholism, and there were a few who said, you know what? I'm good, I've been sober for a year or two or three. I think I can go back to doing some light social drinking. Glass of wine at dinner, you know, beer with the guys every once in a while. Do you know how many of those turned out well? I can't think of a single one.

SPEAKER_01 22:48

I would I would agree with you.

SPEAKER_03 22:50

Last 20 plus years.

SPEAKER_01 22:51

Yeah, I don't know any of those either, where a guy looked back and said, you know what? I'm so grateful. I'm so glad I did that. Um, no, a hundred percent.

SPEAKER_03 22:58

No, and and and I was gonna say you, you know, you you so wisely said this sexual addiction, you know, pornography addiction, sexual compulsion, in many ways is more difficult to give away, to give up, because it's part of us, it's part of our it's part of our biological makeup, right? It's it's it's very akin to food addiction. How do you stop eating?

SPEAKER_01 23:22

I will I will never forget the day an addict came into the rehab center I we just mentioned and I was running. He sat down and he said, This is so much harder than kicking heroin. Yep. And he looked at me and he said, It is like having a dealer in my pants all the time.

SPEAKER_03 23:37

That is so that is so he said it.

SPEAKER_01 23:39

He said it's like I'm walking around with an eight ball, which is drug slang for those of you who don't know for a measure of heroin. He said it's like I'm walking around with an eight ball constantly. He he put it very well. It's true.

SPEAKER_03 23:53

Yeah, and you know the the the trouble with it, you you you try to, you know, this early on in recovery that that addict brain tries to convince you of moderation. But the problem is, is there's so many behaviors, so many environments, so many patterns, so many cues, so many images that are all around us at all times that can easily throw the brain back into that pattern. Like, I mean, like that, before you know it's happened, boom, you're headed, you're headed down that path. And so, how do you how do you try to do moderation with so many triggering cues and influences all around you all the time? Even even cues in your own head with regard to fantasy or whatever, right? So there's a real danger in an addict saying I should be able to handle fill in the blank. I should be able to handle blank now. Yeah, I can go, I can go, I can go back to watching movies that have nudity. Yeah, I've been I've been in recovery now for for a good while. I got some good sobriety, it's not gonna be a problem. I can I can go get engaged in social media, I can write whatever filling in the blank is. That is a dangerous attitude. And I don't know that I can think of anybody that's been in recovery a long time with long sobriety and has really learned wisdom that would use those words. I should be able to fill in the blank. It's kind of a lack of respect for the power of addiction, frankly.

SPEAKER_01 25:24

Well, and and and I I don't disagree with that at all. And I mean, if we if we look at this through the lens, and I like what Mark was just saying a minute ago, right? Is moderation possible? I don't know, but it wouldn't be a recommended recovery path, regardless. However, what is the solution then? Right? Because this isn't drug and alcohol, like she like she mentioned. This isn't drugs and alcohol, this is not a chemical addiction. Healthy humanity is not meant to exist sans sexuality. It's just not. Um, contrary to what many of us were culturally taught, Judeo-Christian, you know, wise taught or in other circles, sex is not just this little element of our lives that you can just kind of take or leave. We are all inherently sexual beings. So what do we do with that? Right? Where do we go with that? Because it's it it isn't not only is it a part of who we are, but it is a it is it is a potentially tremendously connecting force. So where do we go? Do we just look at couples and say, hey man, hey lady, I don't know what to tell you. Your husband's had a sex addiction, so I guess here we go. We're we're we're out for all time. I think that I if I was to use an analogy, and this is not a perfect crossover, but as Mark was talking, let's say that a drug addict, again, had had a situation where he had to take medications that were going to be inherently triggering to him because of his past for medical reasons. It wasn't optional, it wasn't like just a pain situation. It was these are necessary for life. What discussion would Mark or Mark or I have or a therapist have with that person? This is probably the discussion that I would be having with them. It would look something like this. It comes down to careful examination of your intention. It comes down to you doing your very best preparation before you engage with that medication. And it comes down to you being transparent and accountable around your interaction with said medication so that you can do everything in your power to create safety for your partner, for you, and and since this is a necessity to create new bridges, new neural pathways, to use her line of thinking, right? That are healthy, that are sustainable, and that are workable. Now, again, this is different because sex is on sexuality, right, is not a requirement for sustaining life per se, but it is a critical part of a of an integrated lifestyle in the long term. And I would say the exact same thing: intention, transparency, self-examination, and there needs to be a balance to what we are doing as far as recovery goes and meeting our needs internally to mitigate any codependent elements around one's sexuality, thereby doing our best to inoculate against and mitigating the addiction. So that sex can become can become what it was always meant to be, which is one part of your relationship, right? And Dare to Connect. What do Mark and I talk about? Eight areas of intimacy, not one, like most addicts think of, maybe two on a good day. Right? It's eight. Right? And so and so all those elements, anyway, those are the elements I just wanted to bring up.

SPEAKER_03 28:46

We will often share a uh a phrase that the guys are in recovery, absolutely detest. Sex is optional.

SPEAKER_02 28:57

What?

SPEAKER_01 28:58

Right, yeah, they're not a fan of that. They're not a fan of that.

SPEAKER_03 29:01

Sex is optional because as I think about this, you know, I'll tell you a question I probably would have been asking myself back in early recovery. Can I technically watch this movie and not act out because of that today? That would be a question. But what's the better question? Will this will will watching this or participating in this protect my recovery and keep my integrity intact as well as my partner's safety and our relationships safety and intimacy? Will going and watching this or engaging in this or visiting this, will it do all those things or not?

SPEAKER_01 29:45

Yeah. Well, and the and the other piece to keep in mind with that as well is is it going what's going to be the root outcome and why do I want to engage in it?

SPEAKER_03 29:55

That's a great question. And this this is where you boy, you better check whether you're at the place in your recovery where you are actually self-honest, self-analytical, self-transparent. Because if I and I'm not saying I I'm not saying I recommend this because I don't, but let's say that you decided there were certain kinds of movies or social media, whatever, that you felt that it was safe to interact with, you had better put your transparency at the absolute top of your commitments to both be honest with yourself about the experience and with your partner. Here's exactly what was going through my head during that. Here's what I thought about after, here's how it impacted me. If you're not going to come to this with absolute transparency and honesty at all costs, then there's no way that you would even make the attempt with any of this. Hey everybody, PBSC podcast hosts Mark and Steve here with a special message about our revolutionary online recovery program for addict spouses and couples called Dare to Connect. Multiple times every week, we get messages from subscribers in the program. They're people just like you. They're trying to heal from the devastation of sex and porn addiction and betrayal trauma. And here's a few of our most recent submissions. Here's one from an addict in recovery. It says D2C has principles that everyone should utilize regardless of their circumstances. It doesn't matter your coping mechanisms, it matters that you want to work towards genuine connection with your partner.

SPEAKER_01 31:31

That's awesome. Another testimony from an addict continues on. Wow. The way Mark and Steve apply what they've learned is always so redemptive. D2C has opened doors for my relationship that I thought would be shut forever. Mark and Steve are an incredible resource of information on the subject of sex addiction and betrayal trauma. We could not do this journey without their help.

SPEAKER_03 32:01

Here's one from a partner who's been with us for nearly a year. I want you both to know that it is because of you guys and D2C that I'm able to be in the place that I am today. I will always be grateful to you both for your feedback and prompt replies to my questions. I can't even come close to putting it into words how valuable my time spent with y'all this past year has been to my life. Thank you for everything you taught me about betrayal trauma and boundaries and thinking errors and loving myself and making myself a priority and standing up for myself.

SPEAKER_01 32:37

Love that submission. And then as we close out here today, guys, one more account from another addict in recovery. I wish I had a platform like this 14 years ago where I could have learned and done the hard work of recovery before I had done all this damage to myself and to my spouse. And to be candid with all of you, that's exactly why we created Dare to Connect. You know, Mark and I found ourselves in that place. You know, messages like these, and the others like them, they're what Dare to Connect really is all about, guys, and why Mark and I do what we do. Whether you're an addict or a partner of an addict, and no matter where you find yourself in the recovery process, Dare to Connect can take you to the next level. Don't wait another day to catapult your recovery forward. Today is your day for change. Visit us at DareToconnectNow.com to pick up your free two-week trial of Dare to Connect today. Yeah. No, I and I I absolutely agree with that, right? So much of this comes back to intention, but also, as Mark rightly indicated, the capacity to be honest with self right now in Dare to Connect. And we hope that you will all come join us on the Dare to Connect program. We're offering a two-week free trial for that at DaretoConnectNow.com. Come join us and take recovery to the next level. If you like what you're hearing here on the podcast, you'll you'll love that program. But we just recently started a few weeks back a module on internal family systems. We're in the middle of it right now, where for the last few weeks we've been looking at both partners as well as addicts, quote unquote, protector parts. The parts of us that operate in the background that that seek to safeguard us, that try to create and meet our needs while in a protected and healthy way based on the traumas or the other fractures, quote unquote, that we've experienced as people. So if I was to put that in terminology, in that terminology, what are the parts operating in the background right now? Okay, you've heard me say on this podcast many times, great, I want to have sex. Awesome. Why? Why? There are lots of reasons why a person wants to have sex. Yeah. And some of them could be really healthy, some of them might be really toxic. Those say the same reasons that are really healthy for one person may be really toxic for another.

SPEAKER_03 34:44

Yeah. Or for engaging sexually, I mean, even with even with my partner or or my spouse, what's my stress level today? How am I dealing with my fears? What about my sense of entitlement? Am I feeling like I'm I'm acting in any secretive ways today? I could come up with 20 questions that you would ask to do to do a self-assessment before you go into that place.

SPEAKER_01 35:07

Yeah. 100%. And so you can you can see again how important it is to because there's many ways. This comes back to what we've what we've talked about before when we've talked about, you know, healthy sexuality in the relationship, right? There isn't a list of behaviors that we can give you on this podcast today that we can say, okay, for everyone here, these are healthy and these are not. It's impossible. Right? It's impossible. Because so much of the gray, again, that we started this with depends on intention, depends on where I'm at in my recovery, depends on on how I'm trending today. This question should go way beyond can I watch movies or not, you know, of a certain genre. Although you should have those ask those questions, and I think, and I think that there are certain boundaries that we've outlined on this podcast before where Marker and I would say under any circumstance these are problematic.

SPEAKER_03 36:02

Yeah, we don't want to indicate in this podcast we're talking everything's gray. That's not true. There just so much to the middle, right? There are mid, there is middle stuff every day, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 36:12

For example, and and and honestly, trying to operate in that black and white leaves you vulnerable to problems. I have gone into movies before that have no nudity or sex, but because of my addiction background, because of where I'm at emotionally that day, because I'm where I'm at with connection with my wife or otherwise, that movie was probably more triggering than nudity would have been. Right? That's just one example that I'm giving.

SPEAKER_03 36:36

That's just one example, right?

SPEAKER_01 36:38

And you can just see where that could trend or go. So again, so much of this comes back to impact on coupleship, intention behind the behind it. What does this mean for me? What does this mean for you?

SPEAKER_03 36:49

You know, the list just with my self-care, with my with my mindset, with my resiliency.

SPEAKER_01 36:57

The other thing is one more thing. Oh, yes, please. Sex, for example, right? Is that a lot of people who are listening to this might figure, well, sex with my partner is always healthy. Is it? Because I can tell you as an addict in in his own long-term recovery, I'm the one who said no more than once to my wife. And it's not because I'm not attracted to her, nor is it because I'm not interested in sex. Clearly, I'm far I'm very interested in sex if you look at my history as a person. Clearly. It has everything to do with how is this going to impact me right now? What headspace am I really in? Am I in my in am I acting in my integrity and aligning with my own personal self? Or would doing what or would engaging in sex right now be hindering me in that process?

SPEAKER_03 37:43

Am I fully present in this moment? Is it all about me and my partner? Are there other things encroaching on this on this experience?

SPEAKER_01 37:51

Correct.

SPEAKER_03 37:52

And all of that. The other thing that occurred to me, I hope that this guy is not trying to map all this by himself. We should never try to just to to decide what kind of boundary should exist for us with regard to these kinds of questions by being our own sounding board, right? Our best thinking got us here. Quote best thinking. I hope he's bouncing all of this off of a support group, a sponsor in 12-step, a therapist, right? His partner. He needs this does not need to be decisions made in his own head or declarations that he, you know, pounds his fist on the table and says, this is how it is. He better get a whole bunch of input from people that are a lot farther down the track than he is.

SPEAKER_04 38:37

For sure.

SPEAKER_03 38:38

Because if he just rattles this around in his own head, he's going to be headed for some for some tough stuff and tough stuff for his partner. Right? Because and here's the thing, see, I used to think that any boundaries around what's this question she sent in, any boundaries around those were what? Taking away my freedom, punishing me for my past behaviors, right? Encroaching on Mark's life again so that he doesn't get to call the shots. And I had to learn that was it was none of those things. Boundaries. I love boundaries today. Boundaries protect my sobriety. Boundaries are about my emotional safety. Boundaries are all about continuing to rebuild precious trust with my partner. Boundaries are have everything to do with my long-term path of freedom in my life. I I cannot imagine living without boundaries today. No way. So how that is viewed is very important.

SPEAKER_01 39:38

Oh, it's it's huge. Right. So those are, I mean, really, if we're we're talking about the nuts and bolts here as we're wrapping up, right? That is that is what this is. But taking this back to again, if we look at this from a internal parts perspective and and what this partner is looking for, right? One of the things that we feel strongly she's looking for. I mean, because there's the question that she sent us, right? Which is, hey, is this healthy? Right? Hey, can this be navigated with moderation or whatever? But what's the question behind the question, or what's the frustration, or what's the fear?

SPEAKER_03 40:13

That is the question, right?

SPEAKER_01 40:14

Right. And we don't want to mind read her, but we work with partners all the time, and and we know what we're gonna say next as we wrap up is gonna resonate with many of you. It's it's what are you really wanting underneath questions like that when we ask those? Because figuring out what those parts are, those quote unquote protectors, again, get your butts and dare to connect now, or dare to connect right now, because it's this module is really cool as we look at self-intimacy with self as a predicate to intimacy with a partner. What am I really wanting? What am I really what's really driving these things that are showing up externally for me? And and one of the things that would that would come up for virtually every partner that Mark and I work with one-on-one with questions like this would be I'm I'm looking for him to, we use the term on here oftentimes, I'm looking for him to lead out. I'm looking for him to be proactive. I'm looking for him to choose me. Going back to what Mark said at the beginning of of the session, I'm looking for him, I'm looking to him to not be saying, hey babe, great news. I drove this close to the edge today. And look what I got away with. And or this is the how close I hope to drive to the edge to today or next week. And look how awesome it'll be when I do it. She's look, she's looking for a partner who's able to say, I recognize the damage, I recognize the cost, I recognize what I have sacrificed and put on the line in the name of seeking pleasure and escape in the past. And I'm choosing you, and I'm choosing me, and I'm choosing us differently now. I hug, I hug the other side of the cliff so close, I just I spend my day rubbing the paint off on the left side.

SPEAKER_03 42:07

That's on the wall. That's a great analogy. You know, because you know, I love the word that you used just a second ago, leadership. So virtually every betrayed partner we work with says, I wish he would take charge. I wish he would lead out. Can he decide to be the one who's proactively identifying risky content? Can he be the one that's putting boundaries on himself about limiting access? Can he come to me about discussing concerns and choosing safety? Why do I have to be the policewoman on this? And whenever a betrayed partner is forced into a policewoman role, what does that say? I'm not important to him. He's not willing to sacrifice, he's not willing to proactively take the reins on this. It's up to me, which means he doesn't consider me adequately. Right? Safety builds. How many guys say, I want to rebuild trust with her, I want to rebuild a relationship. Okay. Then how about saying, you know what, sweetheart, your fears make sense given my history. And I want to proactively put boundaries in place that help keep me safe and you safe and us safe.

SPEAKER_01 43:21

Right? I think a guy who has successfully really tasted of the benefits of recovery, the way that we have and the way that our clients have, if you really are connected with that and you are feeling that and you really are at that point, a lot of this proactivity piece takes care of itself, not because that magically makes a guy awesome, but because the internal motivation becomes much more self-manifesting.

SPEAKER_03 43:47

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 43:48

Because why? Because obviously I want to protect my partner, and we of course we want to do that, and that's really valiant, like Mark is saying. But to every addict who's listening, just one more point. What about you? Don't you matter? Are are you are you uh are are you a 1950s beater truck that you just you know dragged around the farm that if you drive it off the cliff, well, who gives a shit? Or are you a Maserati because you've discovered your potential and your worth? And why in the world would I keep driving that thing with half a tire hanging off?

SPEAKER_03 44:25

That's insane. Well, and I I started to ask myself questions like, why do I want to go to this movie that's got nudity in the first place? What exactly is that gonna do for me?

SPEAKER_04 44:35

Sure.

SPEAKER_03 44:35

Why is that gonna make a difference in my life? Why, why is that so important? How am I gonna be enlightened? Yeah, am I gonna come out of that experience a better person, more in tune with my higher, authentic, better core true self? Will it will it better me? I used to I started to ask those questions. Going on the social media, why does it matter so much to some part of me? What is that about? I can't go without it. Why is that? These are these are important questions.

SPEAKER_01 45:10

Absolutely. Um there's so much more we could say about this, guys, but it is a half-hour podcast, so we love and appreciate you. Thank you for being here. If you would like to take it beyond 30 minutes a week, and we strongly suggest that you do, uh, when you get done binging the episodes, when you when you uh if you feel good things, if you walk out of these uh listening to these podcasts, feeling more connected with the desire for recovery and change, desiring more safety, desiring more integrity, then you're gonna love Dare to Connect. And and if you like that in a package that includes Mark's wisdom, Steve's wit, is uh I'm being pretty I'm I'm being playing pretty fast and loose there, mixed with a little bit of healthy swearing and occasional cursing, then you will love Dare to Connect if you like that level of rawness and realness. Come join us at DareToconnectnow.com, grab a free two-week trial, and we hope that you'll come join and stay with us. For those who are looking to send submissions into the podcast, you are of course still welcome to do that by going to the same website, daretoconnectnow.com. Click at the PBC podcast link up at the top uh with the logo, and uh that will take you to a contact form where you can do that.

SPEAKER_03 46:20

Yeah, we're about five or six weeks out at this point. So yeah, just just know. Well, thanks for for being here through a tough topic, a controversial topic in the world today. We hope that uh the meaning of this, our our true intent for each of you. We we love and care about you. We want you to have the most joyful, connected, uh fulfilling lives possible. We hope that uh this has all been received on that intention. And uh we'll look forward to uh picking up uh things with you in the next episode. Have a great day, guys.

SPEAKER_00 46:52

Everything expressed on the PVSE podcast are the opinions of the hosts and the participants and is for informational and educational purposes only. This podcast should not be considered mental health therapy or as a substitute thereof. It is strongly recommended that you seek out the clinical guidance of an individual qualified mental health professional. If you're experiencing thoughts of suicide, self harm, or a desire to harm others, please dial 911 or go to your nearest emergency room.