When His Recovery Journey Is Destroying Her Healing Journey

In this episode (340), we respond to a deeply painful submission from a betrayed partner who is trying to determine whether she can stay in a marriage where her husband’s recovery journey seems to be destroying her own healing journey. She discovered in 2024 that her husband had a long history of pornography addiction, alcoholism, escapism, attempted infidelity, trickle truths, and repeated broken promises. At the same time, she has been carrying an overwhelming personal load: mothering three children, navigating a long custody dispute, starting a new job after finishing college, managing the household, dealing with childhood sexual trauma and PTSD, and eventually experiencing a nervous breakdown and hospitalization.

We emphasize that the first issue is not whether the marriage can be saved, but whether there is safety and stabilization. Her husband’s alcohol-fueled rage, property damage, suicidal crisis, hospitalization, shame spirals, emotional attacks, and mental health diagnoses all point to the need for professional intervention, psychiatric care, risk assessment, and a clear safety plan. We also make clear that while diagnoses such as PTSD, borderline personality disorder, depression, anxiety, ADHD, alcoholism, and sex addiction can help explain behavior, they do not excuse harmful impact. His pain is real, but it cannot make her responsible for managing his emotions, preventing his collapse, or absorbing his volatility.

The episode’s core message is that his recovery must become his responsibility, not hers. A betrayed partner’s overfunctioning can easily look like loving support, but if she is managing his emotions, protecting him from consequences, organizing his recovery, and sacrificing her own stability, the system becomes unsustainable and potentially dangerous. Any decision about staying cannot be based on his potential, temporary remorse, or the “flicker of a good man” she still sees in him; it must be based on sustained, observable, accountable change over time. Before true coupleship work can happen, there must be parallel healing: he must build and lead his own recovery system, and she must prioritize her safety, capacity, trauma healing, boundaries, and support network.

For a full transcript of this podcast in article format, go to:  When His Recovery Journey Is Destroying Her Healing Journey

Learn more about Mark and Steve's revolutionary online porn/sexual addiction recovery and betrayal trauma healing program at—daretoconnectnow.com

Find out more about Steve Moore at:  Ascension Counseling

Learn more about Mark Kastleman at:  Reclaim Counseling Services

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:00

Hey everybody, PBSC Podcast hosts Mark and Steve here with a special message about our revolutionary online recovery program for addict spouses and couples called Dare to Connect. Multiple times every week, we get messages from subscribers in the program. They're people just like you. They're trying to heal from the devastation of sex and porn addiction and betrayal trauma. And here's a few of our most recent submissions. Here's one from an addict in recovery. It says D2C has principles that everyone should utilize regardless of their circumstances. It doesn't matter your coping mechanisms, it matters that you want to work towards genuine connection with your partner.

SPEAKER_03 0:40

That's awesome. Another testimony from an addict continues on. Wow. The way Mark and Steve apply what they've learned is always so redemptive. D2C has opened doors for my relationship that I thought would be shut forever. Mark and Steve are an incredible resource of information on the subject of sex addiction and betrayal trauma. We could not do this journey without their help.

SPEAKER_01 1:10

Here's one from a partner who's been with us for nearly a year. I want you both to know that it is because of you guys and D2C that I'm able to be in the place that I am today. I will always be grateful to you both for your feedback and prompt replies to my questions. I can't even come close to putting it into words how valuable my time spent with y'all this past year has been to my life. Thank you for everything you taught me about betrayal trauma and boundaries and thinking errors and loving myself and making myself a priority and standing up for myself.

SPEAKER_03 1:46

Love that. Love that submission. And then as we close out here today, guys, one more account from another addict in recovery. I wish I had a platform like this 14 years ago where I could have learned and done the hard work of recovery before I had done all this damage to myself and to my spouse. And to be candid with all of you, that's exactly why we created Dare to Connect. You know, Mark and I found ourselves in that place. You know, messages like these and the others like them, they're what Dare to Connect really is all about, guys, and why Mark and I do what we do. Whether you're an addict or a partner of an addict, and no matter where you find yourself in the recovery process, Dare to Connect can take you to the next level. Don't wait another day to catapult your recovery forward. Today is your day for change. Visit us at DareToconnectNow.com to pick up your free two-week trial of Dare to Connect today.

SPEAKER_00 2:55

And I'm Mark Castleman. We know the pain and heartbreak of porn and sex addiction. And we know the triumph of breaking completely free. Every day we help our clients find hope and healing. Join us in the fight to take back your life, your marriage, and be stronger than ever. This is the PBSE Squared Podcast.

SPEAKER_01 3:35

This is Mark Castleman and Steve Moore. This is episode 340 when his recovery journey is destroying her healing journey. This was a very um, very detailed, uh, very poignant uh submission by a partner, a betrayed partner in healing. We're just gonna give a summary of what she sent us. We always appreciate appreciate as much deak detail as you can send. We obviously don't uh we don't look to read all of that or enter all of it. There's actually a lot of very detailed uh a lot of great details that she sent us. So we're just gonna give a summary to to give you an idea of where she's coming from. So this is a portrayed partner that wrote in describing uh an overwhelming and escalating situation in her marriage. So back in 2024, she discovered her husband's long history of addiction. And that was it included pornography, it included alcoholism. Uh, she describes a lot of escapism through various kinds of hobbies and distractions on his part, in addition to all that. So Discovery Day involved learning that he had attempted to have an affair while away with friends. Uh, there's also a lot of what we call trickle truths and new disclosures along the way about pornography and drinking, and a lot of broken promises that he was going to change. So, uh, from her perspective, things have can just continue to get worse and spiral. Now, at the same time, she had been carrying an enormous personal load uh along with all that. Uh mothering three children, uh completing a very long custody dispute with regard to a former spouse uh with with with several of those children, starting a new job after finishing her her college degree, uh, and navigating all the trauma and domestic violence dynamics in her current marriage. So you can imagine the cumulative stress that she was going through. It actually led to a uh a nervous breakdown for her and hospitalization and her first what she calls her first psychosis diagnosis. She also carries a lot of childhood sexual trauma, uh, PTSD and and other and other challenges. So she said in her submission to it, she's gone above and beyond to help her current partner. She's encouraged his support in AA, 12-step social support therapy, psychiatric care, and she's been managing the home and the children and his emotions. So she's been holding down the fort. And then recently, just recently, he began engaging with uh the SA White Book, right? That's a 12-step program for sex a holics. And he's been having some longer stretches of sobriety. And while she and she's been working on stronger boundaries, but she says the moment she stopped trying to manage his emotions, his mental health and abusive behaviors escalated. And this included an alcohol-fueled rage that damaged their home, and also a suicidal crisis on his part that led to his hospitalization. Yeah. And while he was hospitalized, he received a uh borderline personality diagnosis in addition to PTSD, depression, anxiety, ADHD. So just I mean, just reading this, the load on this on this on this woman is it's incredible. So she says she's now reeling from all this, wondering whether his shame responses, his lack of empathy, his hair-triggered reactivities, his emotional attacks. Does all this mean that he just doesn't have the capacity to become the partner she needs? We talk about compatibility here all the time. So here's her central question to us Is it worth staying for his recovery journey when there is still a flicker of a good man that she can see? But safety, treatment, boundaries, compatibility, and possible distance might all have to come first. So there's there's a lot going on here.

SPEAKER_03 8:04

Yeah, even the uh even the summary is quite is quite detailed, and there is a lot happening. I uh I mean I've I've read through this several times getting ready for today's podcast, and you know, hearing it a fourth time or whatever it is now doesn't make it any easier. There is there is so much that this partner's dealing with, and and uh I mean the term survivor absolutely comes to mind where she finds herself at. Um and we hope that we can we can try to provide some insight. As always, we can never we can never tell anybody, hey, go or hey, stay, except in very rare cases. And we you know, you're you're all our listening audience, you're not any one of our uh clients, and so we don't operate in that purview, but we hope that what we can offer today gives some insight and and helps her to ask herself some questions that maybe can lead her to an answer that's authentic to her in terms of you know where to where to go and what to do, because there's obviously a lot on the line. Anytime a family unit's on the line, I mean that's that just adds to the pressure, right? We I mean we never want to see a family unit break up. There's the cost of the parents, the kids, the everybody, but that always has to be weighed at the same time, right, against everything else going on and the compatibility among among other other things.

SPEAKER_01 9:24

Yeah, because I mean some would say, well, there's a basic question, can he recover? But it's it's it's a lot more than that. Right? We're we're hearing her say, can can I s can I safely stay close to him in his recovery journey without losing myself, my sanity, my stability, my ability to parent? And and what about the three children? And how how does all that come into this process? And we can hear her exhaustion, her hopelessness, her confusion. Um, all of it makes total sense. And so she says there's a there's a good man somewhere in there, but how does she also move in the direction of uh of safety? What what is her capacity in all this? Well, all the treatment, all the boundaries, all all the things, right? You can just hear all these balls in the air.

SPEAKER_03 10:17

Well, with any situation like this, right, you you're dealing, you're dealing with when you're dealing with this kind of complexity, there does have to be kind of a triage order to things, right? For lack of a better term. And it's unfortunate that's the reality, but that is still the reality. And where Mark and I always recommend to clients where where we have to start, because it's the only way the brain operates effectively, is if we're even going to get in touch with our authentic selves, if we're gonna ask ourselves authentic questions, if we're going to try to examine hard things like do I end a relationship, right, or do I stay in one? The first and foremost thing that you have to address is this is the safety question. Right. And that is a real question in this case. Um, we've got a dynamic where one partner has been hospitalized, the partner's been hospitalized already once for what she describes again as a breakdown in the psychosis issue. We've got uh the addict who's had a recent suicidal episode, you know, culminating in his own significant treatment. Um, these are huge red flags. Speaking as a guy who used to work in the in the ER crisis unit once upon a time in his career. I mean, these kinds of issues, when you have these kinds of things floating around and the questions that associate themselves with it in terms of how are we even going to function on the day-to-day or get day-to-day needs met, it makes when you're navigating those kinds of baseline issues, trying to assess long-term trajectory is almost impossible. Yeah. Um, you've got to navigate and figure out the safety piece first. Now, we're not sure what that means for this couple because there's not a ton of detail about that, but there does need to be some sort of psychiatric and mental health stabilization for both of them to the point where hospitalizations are occurring. He's not having suicinal episodes or or or ideation to the degree where that's needing to be assessed consistently. And we need to focus on those basics. Usually that begins with some sort of medication intervention and then progresses from there into therapy. So that would need to be done first and foremost, uh, before we can really look at any term, any anything in the long lines of, you know, does this marriage have hope or not?

SPEAKER_01 12:27

Yeah, because you want to go to the conversation of, you know, do we stay, do we separate, do we do what does rebuilding look like? But before you, because part of this was not just his suicidal event that hospitalized him, but she describes alcohol-fueled rage, property damage. Right? This is this is really serious stuff. So there has got to be uh professional guidance, there has to be a clear assessment of risk, and then there has there has to be a detailed safety plan that has to be brought into play before you can talk about any of the other stuff. 100%.

SPEAKER_03 13:03

Yep. 100%. So setting that kind of aside, because that that needs to really be navigated first. But but if we if we go beyond that for the purposes of not just this couple, but for anyone who finds themselves maybe in some sort of a similar predicament, who is weighing these kinds of options. Um, one thing that really stuck out to us in here, and again, this is according to just her her retelling of this, right? Is and and it was a trigger point before we even started to talk about it, Mark and I, prior to you know getting ready to do the podcast today, is she talks about how his recovery, even though he's had some recent success with recovery, it immediately started to turn when she took her hand off his recovery wheel, so to speak.

SPEAKER_01 13:45

Yeah, she says, When I stopped managing his emotions, yeah, things started to fall apart really soon.

SPEAKER_03 13:52

Because there's a lot tied up with that, right? The management of emotions. There's the protecting him from consequences for many partners, right? There's trying, oftentimes partners will go to great lengths to cause chaos in their own world in in an effort even to try to stabilize his, right? And and she says as soon as she started to back off from whatever she was doing, that's when he immediately started to nosedive, reactivity went up, he became very defensive, uh close-minded. Uh, she saw a lot of the volatility return, which of course impacts safety given the history of this couple, right? And that really is is kind of, I think, for both Mark and I, in some ways, not the factor here, but is an incredibly huge critical mass factor because Mark and I have done recovery. We we say oftentimes in our one of our monikers for our Dare to Connect program for addict spouses and couples, is that come work with us because we've already done it all the wrong ways, so you don't have to. And we don't say that kind of as a cute jingle, like that's true. We can both relate in many ways to what's going on in this coupleship. And we know first and foremost, I mean, I'll speak for myself, as a guy who drug his feet and resisted recovery in all sorts of ways, ranging from blaming blame shifting to my partner to being vague about my recovery efforts to kind of half-assing it in different ways. The one inalienable truth that every addict has to face and every partner has to face with them is that recovery has to happen for an addict has to happen on the addict's terms. He it will not be effective unless he is willing on some level to pick up the sword and begin to proactively navigate that recovery and sustain it on based on his own efforts, and that he progressively very quickly moves away from external consequences, guiding that and moves quickly towards internal motivations of doing that because he's wanting to, he sees the necessity. Until until and unless he does that, we have seen partner after partner. I mean, Mark and I, we could we could we could recount hundreds of examples of this, and our own marriages are almost examples of this, where partners will give everything, all the way up through their own authentic selves, where to the point where they've given away so much there's nothing left uh in the in the fight to try to get him to change.

SPEAKER_01 16:09

And she said all all of that, all of that resulted in her her nervous system completely breaking down. Yes, exactly. She she had a complete breakdown and had to be hospitalized. You can just imagine the the the years that led up to that.

SPEAKER_03 16:24

So, unless he's willing to do that or is at least open to that process and getting the help externally to make that happen, to the point where she is no longer the recovery coach, let's say, for lack of a better term, this relationship simply does not have much chance for success. It just doesn't.

SPEAKER_01 16:40

No, and and and as we as we're doing this podcast, I'm thinking of all the trade partners out there who are trying to support their addict partner, trying to be in healing. But it's really easy for a betrayed partner's overfunctioning to look like supporting his recovery. Oh yeah, 100%. And it's it's it's not. It's it I know this is hard to hear, but but when a when a when a betrayed partner is overfunctioning to try to support him, it actually can easily create an an and a system of enablement for him. And the only way that that system of enablement stops is the partner just has a complete collapse. So so she she can't do it anymore. That's kind of what that's what kind of brings it to a to a temporary end.

SPEAKER_03 17:30

Or she prime or she vocalizes it, right? In the in some sort of way, like what may potentially be happening here right now. I mean, those who've been listening to this podcast for a long time know Mark and I's story. We our recoveries became successful when we started to do the do this, what we're talking about. But you know what preempted that? The thing that saved Mark and I's marriage, I and Mark, tell me if you disagree. At least I'll say it for mine. The thing that saved my marriage wasn't me starting to work on this proactively, yeah. But the thing that saved it before that was Brittany finally speaking up and up enough to say, no more, and no more. And this is we're not I I can't give any more on my end. You've got to start. Yeah. And and that so that was the real precursor.

SPEAKER_01 18:14

Yeah, and my you know, we we sometimes joke about it with my wife's statement, you know, talk is cheap. Show me. I'm tired of your talk, I'm tired of your your your broken promises, I'm tired of your good intentions. I need to see that you are taking charge of all of this.

SPEAKER_03 18:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 18:31

Because I'm I'm done. I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm learning what healthy boundaries look like and I'm holding them.

SPEAKER_03 18:38

The ocean of good intentions has sunk many a recovery boat. Oh my gosh, that's so true.

SPEAKER_01 18:44

Hey everybody, PBSC podcast hosts Mark and Steve here with a special message about our revolutionary online recovery program for addict spouses and couples called Dare to Connect. Multiple times every week, we get messages from subscribers in the program. They're people just like you. They're trying to heal from the devastation of sex and porn addiction and betrayal trauma. And here's a few of our most recent submissions. Here's one from an addict in recovery. It says D2C has principles that everyone should utilize regardless of their circumstances. It doesn't matter your coping mechanisms, it matters that you want to work towards genuine connection with your partner. That's awesome.

SPEAKER_03 19:26

Another testimony from an addict continues on. Wow. The way Mark and Steve apply what they've learned is always so redemptive. D2C has opened doors for my relationship that I thought would be shut forever. Mark and Steve are an incredible resource of information on the subject of sex addiction and betrayal trauma. We could not do this journey without their help.

SPEAKER_01 19:55

Here's one from a partner who's been with us for nearly a year. I want you both to know that it is because of you guys and D2C that I'm able to be in the place that I am today. I will always be grateful to you both for your feedback and prompt replies to my questions. I can't even come close to putting it into words how valuable my time spent with y'all this past year has been to my life. Thank you for everything you taught me about betrayal trauma and boundaries and thinking errors and loving myself and making myself a priority and standing up for myself.

SPEAKER_03 20:30

Love that, love that submission. And then as we close out here today, guys, one more account from another addict in recovery. I wish I had a platform like this 14 years ago where I could have learned and done the hard work of recovery before I had done all this damage to myself and to my spouse. And to be candid with all of you, that's exactly why we created Dare to Connect. You know, Mark and I found ourselves in that place. You know, messages like these, and the others like them, they're what Dare to Connect really is all about, guys, and why Mark and I do what we do. Whether you're an addict or a partner of an addict, and no matter where you find yourself in the recovery process, Dare to Connect can take you to the next level. Don't wait another day to catapult your recovery forward. Today is your day for change. Visit us at DareToconnectNow.com to pick up your free two-week trial of Dare to Connect today. Yeah. And so that that's an absolute critical necessity. And so I we've probably said enough about that, but hopefully we're we're being clear there. Um so let's talk about the clinical side of this for just a second. You know, again, we're not anybody's therapist in in the in a capacity that way on the podcast, but you know, diagnoses are important. They are. Um, she talks about you know being diagnosed with PTSD and with the bipolar disorder. He he she goes on to describe his diagnosis with borderline personality disorder, which are very difficult to manage in and of themselves. But and even though those things can help to explain. Right? What's going on? One of the foundational concepts, if you have not come and joined our Dare to Connect program yet, you need to. Um, because one of the foundational concepts that we teach in Dare to Connect uh at DareToconnectnow.com, come grab a two-week free trial. We'd love to have you join us, is that there are absolutely reasons for the things that we do, but there are not excuses. I can I can give you a very detailed accounting of the reasons that are very logical as to why I treated my wife the way that I did. Right now, again in Dare to Connect, we're talking about managers and firefighters in terms of protectors as they as they relate to the internal family systems concept behind recovery. Great unit. We'd love to have you come join us for that. But even if I go through and explain that, does that diminish my accountability? Of course not. Right? And something really critical, she she says something really critical in there that this gentleman, her husband, has demonstrated a capacity to back off from the reactivity and to better regulate when the pressure is high. And that's really important to pay attention to. And something, like I said, as a manipulative recovering addict myself, I had that same thing. It was easy to sometimes say to myself, Oh, well, I can't do this. What was amazing when the right motivation appeared, how I could really make some changes in my behavior, at least for short periods of time. Which, among other things, leads one to conclude logically that there is a capacity for shift, there is a capacity for greater effort. Can he completely regulate things on his own? Maybe, maybe not. That remains to be seen. But could he be doing clearly more than he is? Absolutely. And he's choosing not to, again, based on what we're being told here.

SPEAKER_01 23:41

Yeah, because you know, we're talking about him. If he's going to step into the lead out position, he's going to go and establish his support system, his outside support system that's not her, right? He's going to build get involved with the community. He's going to find people that he can engage with who are farther down the road than he is. He's going to take, he's, he's going to take proactive management of his mental health, if that includes medication, etc. He's he's got to lead out, right? His recovery can't depend on her management of the whole process, right? Her overfunctioning. No. This is something that he he has got to do. This and my heart goes out to him. I I I've I've suffered with a lot of mental illness in my life, clearly from the time I was a little kid. And it took, it took decades to get that all figured out. For too long, my wife also managed the whole process, right? Walked on eggshells, managed my emotions, tried to make sure, you know, tried to gear her life when she would look to see where I was at, would determine what she did that day. We we went through all that.

unknown 24:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 24:58

The thing that, and and while I can absolutely relate to all the pain he's going through, which is legitimate, because he's got you know borderline personality disorder, p complex PTSD, she says, ADHD, depression, anxiety, addiction. That's a boatload.

SPEAKER_03 25:14

It is.

SPEAKER_01 25:15

But that cannot that cannot excuse impact. No, it doesn't make harmful behavior acceptable. It it means that he has he has got to go to whatever extraordinary means he needs to go to to manage this process. He needs more help, not less. He needs more structure, not less.

SPEAKER_03 25:39

And if he's really serious about the change, then he is going to be, I hate this term, but I don't have a better one at the moment. He's gonna he's going to be humble enough to recognize that he needs outside help and that he's and he's going to allow that humility to override whatever pride might be operating. And again, I speak from a pride recovery place where he's gonna have to, like Mark said, own the fact that look, what I'm doing right now is not working, and so I need to be, I may not be able to fix this on my own. So I need to be proactively seeking out assistance to do it. It's not my wife's job, it's not anyone else, it's not my doctor's job, it's my job, it's my life. So I need to be doing that.

SPEAKER_01 26:18

And it's not a matter of me, it's a matter of we. Who is we? That whole system that he needs to bring into his world, and and it's not one she heads up, it's one he heads up. Yeah. Now she asked, is it worth staying? Do I stick around? I I see a flicker of good in this man. Is that flicker of good? Is is is the is the little part of his potential that I see, is that enough to keep me around here? I we can't answer that because we, you know, we're we're not we're not on the ground uh in in as professionals in their situation. But what we can tell you is the answer to that question, is it worth staying, can't be based on false promises, potentials, temporary remorse on his part. Uh, you and I talk about um hospital insight, right? Everything seems to go to a place of compassion and understanding, and we can do this while you're standing by his hospital bed. But that can't, that that that environment and scenario can't be the thing that makes long-range decisions.

SPEAKER_04 27:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 27:29

It's got to be based on sustained, observable, accountable, consistent change over time. Absolutely. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 27:40

Well, and and and as we're as we're starting to wrap this up, because we we know this is such a difficult topic, and we know that this is not the only partner who finds himself in this situation. Many of you may find that. And we hope that whatever you take from this podcast to anyone where this is tragically resonating with, that this will prompt you to take your next right thing step to do your next right thing, right? Whatever that is. You do have to examine this through the lens of, like Mark said, not just potential, but also through the lens of, is my own work, right? My own healing? Because we're not just talking about him here. That's that would be the case in any partner, uh, betrayed partner addict dynamic, but particularly in this one where where the issues are so great on both sides. Whatever uh she does, it has to be compatible with her getting help and her creating a structure for her own healing, first and foremost. Because as we say on here all the time, it doesn't matter how much you may want to show up for him or your kids or anything else. If you don't take care of you first, you're hosed. Yeah. That's a clinical term, host. You're you're you're you're toast. You're not gonna it's it's not going to be possible. You can't you can't put gas tank in or gas in someone else's tank when yours is on fumes.

SPEAKER_01 29:00

Well, well, and the thing this brings up some really uh some really hard decisions that we're we're sensitive to from our own personal situations, but also working with with couples over you know several decades. You start to get into a conversation that talks of things like uh talks about things like we need to take distance, we might need a therapeutic separation, we may need to engage in structured communication. Uh, we might have to bring in a third party for support and to navigate this. Those are those are discussions you you part of you doesn't want to have in the heat of the of the battle of life. Right? She's raising three kids, she's dealing with her own stuff and his. Now someone says, you know what? Maybe you can't do that in the current environment. Maybe there's all these interventions that need to begin to take place. Because Steve, one thing we know there has to be parallel healing, his healing journey, his healing journey, her healing journey taking place in parallel before you can even talk about coupleship work. Right? We all we all want to go to couples, okay. Let's let's let's let's heal the coupleship, let's do marriage counseling. Let's a lot of people will throw that out there way premature. And I don't you and I have never seen that succeed. We just jump to the coupleship and and how do we make this work together? And there has to be parallel healing journeys that are happening.

SPEAKER_03 30:36

Yes. So whatever she does next, right, that's the that's the key term, right? Whatever her next right thing is, her healing has to be the center of that.

SPEAKER_01 30:44

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_03 30:45

If whatever she decides to do doesn't include that at the forefront, again, this is we don't see a way in which this is salvageable. It's just, it's just, and that's not because it's this couple, it's because that's how recovery and humanity emotional physics work. It's kind of the emotional equivalent of gravity. We've just seen it a time and time and time again. We have to be able to meet our own needs in healthy ways. We need to be able to be healthily selfish if we're going to ever step into the role of helping or assisting another person. And too many partners find themselves at the end of the. I mean, this is these these are the and that's why we're Mark and I are so passionate about this topic because we've seen in real time what happens when a partner stays through on an on on an incompatible cycle where she's giving more than she's taking in over time. She'll just one day just leave. It won't be an optional thing, she'll just go because she has to, and she won't even know why. But she will end the relationship. Her basic survival instinct will eventually take over, and that's the best case. Worst case could be something far more scary, far far worse.

SPEAKER_01 31:53

Yeah, because the the questions here is not how do I help him recover? I hope that she can start to get into a really honest analysis of all this, and and with professional help, I hope, where it becomes a matter of her capacity. She's a glass that's full and pouring over, right? So what is the what is the level of contact that we should be having? What what what is the level of communication look like? Proximity with each other. Um what what kind of responsibility can she safely carry right now? Right? Where where where's there's got to be an honest discussion about her capacities, about her responsibilities and where that actually is, not where we want it to be, where it could be, where is it right now? Right? That that has to be looked at. So we we we highly encourage if she doesn't have an outside support team that doesn't include him, she's she has got to get that put into place. Um, you know, all the various, you know, we you can talk as we wrap up, Steve, about you know, trauma-informed clinical support, uh domestic violence-informed resources, trusted family and community support, legal and protective. I mean, there's a lot happening here.

SPEAKER_03 33:18

Yes, a hundred percent. Well, and and last but not least, and we say this not for a plug, a shameless plug for us, but because we don't have a better option, we hope that this partnership, both of them, will find themselves in a place where they will give the Dare to Connect program a try so that they can have something on board for them to help navigate this this journey. There are so many amazing pieces to Dare to Connect that make it unique, but one of them that comes to mind for this couple ship in particular is the flexibility around it. You know, we have couples who both of them have really weird schedules, they work different hours. Sometimes they're almost like ships passing in the night, kind of like a couple ship where all this is they it's too volatile for them to be able to navigate, maybe even couples therapy together, right? Dare to Connect offers an anonymity and a flexibility that allows you to attend sessions, whether live or recorded, ask us interactive questions, get answers almost in real time, especially if you're in the sessions. But then in addition to that, you can watch in the privacy of your own home. You can do it anonymously, you can connect and attend with your partner, or you can watch separately and come together. We have couples in our program that have told us the only way we talk about recovery is because of Dare to Connect. Because we can't sit down one-on-one and just talk about my betrayal. It's impossible. The minute I start talking about that, his defenses come up, his, his, his protectors come up, I escalate in my trauma and we're off to the races. But when when Mark and Steve are talking about it in a third-person perspective, it allows us to tackle difficult difficult things, but in a way that's less threatening. It's it's and it opens the dialogue in ways that other things don't. And that's just one way in which we hope that you'll come and give Dare to Connect a try. DaretoConnectNow.com, guys. Grab a two-week free trial. We'd love to have you come join us. Um, thank you all for as all uh as always being here for the podcast. We wish this couple ship the best as they make some difficult decisions. Um, as always, if you would like to reach out to us and have something answered on the podcast via what we lovingly refer to as snail mail. I think we're about six or seven weeks out. We've got a bit of a backlog right now on questions, but we will take a look at those if you send them into us and see if we can bring them up on the podcast. You just go to that same website or you should be clicking on the Dare to Connect Dare to Connect link to sign up, but you can click on the BBSC podcast link up at the top, and that'll take you to a contact form, and you can send those in to us.

SPEAKER_01 35:42

Yeah. And as always, uh appreciate uh really do love and appreciate all of you all over the world. Uh our hearts go out to you and what you're what you're going through and experiencing. We know that it is nothing remotely close to easy. So we applaud your courage to even be making the effort at all, both both those of you struggling with addiction and those trying to heal from betrayal. Uh, we're just grateful for all that you're trying to do and grateful that we get to be here and be as much of a support as we can. So uh we'll uh we'll look forward to our next PBSC episode or seeing some of you in D2C. Absolutely. Have a great day, guys.

SPEAKER_02 36:23

Everything expressed on the PBSC podcast are the opinions of the hosts and the participants and is for informational and educational purposes only. This podcast should not be considered mental health therapy or as a substitute thereof. It is strongly recommended that you seek out the clinical guidance of an individual qualified mental health professional. If you're experiencing thoughts of suicide, self harm, or a desire to harm others, please dial 911 or go to your nearest emergency room.