Brand Funded Programming at MIPCOM 2024 | TellyCast Podcast

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In this episode of TellyCast, recorded live from MIPCOM, Justin Crosby hosts an all-star panel to demystify the world of brand-funded programming. The conversation features insights from industry leaders including Sam Glynn from UTA, Roberta Zamboni from Fremantle, and Javier Martinez from You First. They explore the evolving landscape of branded content, examining the shift from traditional product placements to more integrated, authentic storytelling.

The discussion highlights the importance of collaboration between brands, producers, and broadcasters, and how to create compelling content that resonates with audiences while meeting brand objectives. The guests share their thoughts on balancing creative and commercial goals, maintaining brand safety, and finding new growth opportunities in a rapidly changing media environment. Key takeaways include the need for a translator role to bridge the gap between brands and producers, focusing on authenticity, and understanding audience expectations to ensure successful brand integration.

This episode is sponsored by ITV Studios and Shooting in Spain, a brand of ICEX Invest in Spain.

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Transcript

Justin: Considering Spain as a shooting location for your next TV project? Looking for a Spanish partner to join your international co pro? And need help to identify business opportunities and set up in Spain? If you're coming to Mipcom, make sure to meet the Shooting in Spain team, powered by ISEX Invest in Spain.

They offer a free public service specialised in attracting TV productions and supporting foreign entrepreneurs looking to establish in the Spanish media sector. Ask for Shooting in Spain when visiting the Audiovisual from Spain stand at Riviera 7. Or request a one-to-one meeting by email to invest in Spain at Isec es.

That's invest in Spain at ic, ex Es shooting in Spain. Making it easy for you.

Hi, I'm Justin Crosby and welcome to another TellyCast. This week from MIPCOM, we have an all-star panel from the world of brand funded programming. to help demystify the rapidly evolving and increasingly important sector of the content industry. My guests are Sam Glynn, Head of Vermeer Entertainment and Culture Marketing at UTA, Roberta Zamboni, Global Head of Branded Content and Sponsorship at Fremantle, and Javier Martinez, Director of Originals at U First.

Thanks to our sponsors, ITV Studios and Shooting in Spain, a brand of ISEX Invent in Spain, for making this show possible. Welcome back to TellyCast Live from the Palais. We have an all star panel now from the world of brand funded programming to help demystify this rapidly evolving and increasingly important sector of the content industry.

My guests are Sam Glynn, Head of EMEA Entertainment and Culture Marketing at UTA, Roberta Zamboni, Global Head of Branded Content and Sponsorship at Fremantle and Javier Martinez, Director of Originals at You First. Hello guys. Welcome to the show. How are you? Thank 

Roberta: you, Justin. 

Justin: How are you finding Mipcom?

Are you having a good time? Are you, uh, you guys like back to back with meetings? 

Sam: Well, it's a funny market for us because we deal with brands and there aren't many brands here. Yes. So I think that's a shout out, Justin. It's up to you to bring in a contingent of brands and, And then they'll have new toys to play with.

Justin: Yeah, well we'll do what we can. Last time I was here was at, uh, at Cannes Lions, which is a very different affair, obviously, and, uh, the croissette is full of brands doing, uh, remarkable things in entertainment. Um, but, um, let's, let's, let's start talking about, um, uh, the growth that, uh, that brand funded programming has had over the, uh, the past few years.

Um, from your perspective, starting with you, Roberta, what's driving that shift? How's the landscape? Change for brands and and content creators. Do you think 

Roberta: actually I think we are in a very interesting moment for the rented funded Life cycle. We are kind of a third stage right now It's like if we were playing in a second in a third league in a new league at the moment We started basically from product placement.

So, you know, putting the place that products in in the stories that we moved on into brand funded programming from scratch to be able to find premium slots in broadcasters. And now we're jumping into a new way of working together with brands and broadcasters like co producing programs. So I think this is a, you know, nice time to be in this in this business because you can play a lot with business models.

So you can find hybrid spaces to work with them. So I think it's very interesting to test something new also, uh, in financial modeling, uh, and I find this very interesting and exciting. 

Justin: Yeah, yeah. It seems like a brave new world, but obviously it's not so new, is it? I mean, brands have been involved in entertainment right from the very beginning and soap operas were actually, you know, created from, from bands, brands going back many decades.

Um, Javier, how are you seeing growth from your perspective? Yeah. Absolutely. 

Javier: I think there are several factors, but I would point for a first of all, it's a authenticity and consumers are looking for content that is real, is credible and brands know it and they need to reach their targets in that way.

They want to get them engaged. The second is the results. The results are proven and the brands are realizing about that. So they are investing more and more. Um, well, because they see the results and also there are less barriers of entry. And now the brands are becoming more producers. So they do their own content.

They don't have this kind of intermediaries to do their stuff and to launch and to get the content distributed. Uh, in many different ways. Um, and yes, it's, uh, like a D to C, uh, model, uh, somehow. So I think these are the number of factors that, uh, well, the industry is changing, there is a shift in perspective, uh, in that way, and we are eager to embrace it, even though it's not, it's not, it's not easy, uh, as, uh, you mentioned.

There's an evolving, uh, from the product placement to branded content. Uh, and, and this is a very interesting and very, we need, we need to embrace it and we need to keep pushing, but of course, uh, still a lot of work to 

Justin: do. Yeah. And obviously the advent of social media and YouTube in particular, we've seen lots of brands becoming entertainment.

Uh, providers in their own right really in creating their own programming, which is, uh, which is perhaps the next phase, but maybe we'll talk about that in a second. Um, Sam, now you work with some of the biggest global brands out there when it comes to, uh, integrating entertainment into their strategies.

Can you tell us a little bit about, uh, the brands that you work with and how you ensure that they make their, uh, their content authentic? 

Sam: Authentic. We're going to keep coming back to those words, aren't we? Um, so I think the power of UTA is we know what's coming next. So we have upstream knowledge of every project in development because somebody has called one of our agents.

Can I have your writer, your producer, your director? So I also represent brands as well as the rest of the agency representing talent. So I can say, Hey, Brand X, your brand values are this. And here are 15 projects across the world that I know are coming through. Let's, let's start talking to the producers or the writers early on.

Let's get into the writer's room. Bye. Let's speak to the showrunner and let's see how we can really make it an organic and authentic integration rather than just shoehorning in something at the last minute. And that's 

Justin: really important, getting involved right at the beginning of the project, which I imagine is something you might all agree with, rather than that sort of badging of yesterday.

This is, this is very much about integrating brands into, into, uh, into content right at the inception stage. 

Sam: DNA plus 

Justin: DNA. Yeah. Yeah. And, um, uh, can you give us some examples of, of brands that you're working with and some of the, uh, recent campaigns that you've, you've worked on? 

Sam: Well, as Roberta said before, it's all about reinventing the business model.

And, um, I know she's the queen of doing that. Uh, you have to be creative. We've seen, I mean, we, we were laughing before this and saying it's being like they've got talent hosts with the, uh, branded water on the desk. 

Yeah. 

Sam: So that, that's one way of doing it. But another way is if you are a strong category leader as a brand.

Can you make unbranded content? But your brand values are so embedded in the content that they shine through. And then the brand composed sponsorship bumpers and ads around it. So one client I work with a lot is Ancestry and they are fantastic. And they do shout about unbranded running content. They will do shows about genealogy and family history and DNA that do not mention the brand Ancestry.

com do not show the website or someone spitting in a tube, which they're never going to do anyway. But because They are market leaders in that category. They know once that program as there'll be a massive upside for them as a brand. And that's smart, 

Justin: right? And they have that confidence of knowing that as they're a brand leader, they're the first brand that anyone turns to talk about it.

So they'll put 

Sam: sponsorship bumpers at the beginning of the end. They'll buy advertising media around the show. They'll use social and digital to amplify it. But the show itself remains intact. 

Justin: Right? Okay. Um, Javier, so you first originals operate at the intersection of sports and, uh, talent and media and lots of, lots of different areas.

How do you tailor brand funded content within your business in a, in a way that resonates with, uh, the right audiences and delivering value for the brands at the same time? 

Javier: Keep the content first, uh, keep it original and work with the brands, uh, since the beginning in a very, very early stage as, as you mentioned, um, because this is the key to success.

You have to, to keep the content very natural and enjoy the brand, uh, in a way that, that feels very organic. Um, well, uh, this way ensures that the content is still valuable for the audience. And also then you can amplify and build. Transmedia products around the content itself to where The brand can have more presence, you know, uh, so it's a combination off.

Let's say more traditional, uh, advertising on the pure run. The content is with that is what the brands are actually realizing. They didn't want to invade the content with so much product or logos. They want to keep it real and authentic on keep it out is engaged. So that's our our model. That's what we try to do.

It's not always easy because, well, you know, you have brands that it. I know that, uh, with, with that mindset, uh, but yes, that's our, our focus. 

Justin: And actually let's take a moment to talk about your business. So you first, can you just explain anybody that hasn't come across you first? Good. Tell us about your business.

Javier: Okay. Because you know, it's not easy to explain. I will try to be, uh, short and clear. Well, you first is a 22 almost year old company. It's a talent agency. We represent over a thousand talents worldwide. Okay. Amongst NBA players, soccer players, basketball players, uh, now in Spain we have a big portfolio of celebrities and influencers, other verticals such as DJs, uh, or now we are entering the actor's scene as well.

So this is the core business and then we have three more business, uh, units which are also big, uh, brand services of course. We work in seven countries, um, with a With over 100 brands in a daily basis, with a workforce of 50 people just in Spain, um, and then we have the content business. In the content business, I try to summarize, sorry, uh, is divided in three different lines, branded entertainment, a podcast company that we acquired last year, originals, which is the unit that I'm leading.

We is a podcast company. premium outfit, uh, talent driven content, um, for especially for streamers. And, and also working with grants and, uh, YouTube company that we handle over a hundred, 200 YouTube channels worldwide amongst sports and content creators, et cetera, and a big data company in the UK. Eh, so just to summarize the picture, it's.

Talent, brands, content, and big data, uh, as a brief summarize, well, uh, kind of everything. Of course, the, the, the talent is our DNA and, uh, it's our value proposition. And, and this is what we are built for. Now we work for talent and, but we also work for brands and properties and, and, and, and we utilize this value to propose something unique to the market.

Yeah. Yeah. Well, it's in brief. Hopefully it's clear. 

Justin: Certainly. Yeah, I do. I mean, it certainly seems like a developing model and much in the way that I think UTA is involved in creating content and managing artists and working with brands. I mean, it really feels like it's, you know, it's a next generation of branded content.

So very exciting businesses. Yeah. Um, Roberta. Now, Fremantle is obviously a very long history of creating, uh, content across multiple genres. Um, how do you approach the creative, uh, uh, process when working on brand funded projects? And I know there's a number that you've launched very recently and, and you're, and you're working on at the moment.

Um, Do you find it challenging to, to, to balance those creative and commercial goals? 

Roberta: Yeah, this is very tricky. And this is a not the point of contrast between the producers and the brands. And we are just in the middle of that facilitating this process. We are again the experts of this process that is changing a lot.

Luckily, we have over 65 labels across the whole company in all the territories, so we are able, once we receive a brief from a brand, to basically select and assess all the projects from the pipeline and slate of every brand, of every label. That might fit with the brand's brief. So this is a very long process, but in the end it's very effective because we can select, we can cherry pick what it's most fitting with the brand's brief.

Uh, so we have this lack of having this whole network of labels working for documentaries, scripted and unscripted, and fast channels and digital. So we can really tap into what it's been under commission and jump into those projects because it's always better not to, you know, start from scratch with an original content, but to tap into project that are already under the radar of the broadcasters or platforms to be more effective in the last part of the funnel.

And also there's a chance for all the labels. to, um, put forward projects that are in the back of their minds that have never been released or presented to broadcasters or platforms, but they want to put forward because it really fits with the brand values of the brand involved. So it's really a very dynamic approach.

We go back and forth. We assess, we select all the labels, and then we come up with a very compelling project, selecting what we think is the best one. 

Justin: Yeah. And, and are you, I'm, it's a huge business, uh, that you have at Fremantle. I mean, are you finding that, uh, brand funded programming is becoming more and more?

important within the overall business? 

Roberta: I do think so. Um, it's very, you know, it's very difficult to balance again the storytelling against the brand presence. We don't want obviously the brand to overpower the content. So we have to be very careful and select, as you were saying, the right brands that want to do This jump into the unknown because you never know if it's gonna be successful, if it's gonna be effective, the ROI, all the measurement thing that it's a big issue at the moment, and it will always be, I think, um, so it's a matter of finding the right project, the right brands that fits with, again, a certain type of storytelling, which will be, again, authentic, meaningful and very organic and seamless to the content that we want to deliver.

Then there's a whole evangelization towards the producers that we keep doing. It's, uh, you know, it's lasting for years. I think we last forever because producers are, you know, um, do want to have their own content in place. But we need to translate the needs from the brand. So for example, we had a person, a creative specialist in our team that is just translating the needs from the brands to the producers and back.

Justin: Right. 

Roberta: And I think this is key. Uh, it's becoming very, you know, key for this process to have a link 

Justin: person, essentially a 

Roberta: link person in our global team, the brand team, uh, to really translate those briefs into producers. What do you want to do with that? Uh, you have to deliver brand values. You have to match those brand values, uh, and forget about the brand placement, uh, in the content.

It's something else. This is not easy because producers have something in mind that doesn't relate with what the brand wants sometimes. So you need to have a facilitator. Uh, let's say an enabler in your team to be able to do so, and it's a whole team effort again on a daily basis. It's all about, you know, 

Justin: the last thing is a difficult marketing director and getting involved in a very delicate production.

It's sort of, you know, it's a there's lots of potential pitfalls there, but that sounds very smart that you've got some of the in place to do that. Um, so, Sam, coming to you. Looking at the advantages then of brands investing in brand funding for programming as opposed to traditional, uh, advertising, what do you see, uh, the main benefits for, for brands, uh, from a cultural perspective?

Sam: Who watches ads. 

Justin: Who 

Sam: watches linear TV? Yeah, I think there's the two key questions. And so if people aren't watching that type of content, you need to be inside of the content in order to get eyeballs. And I think what's key is finding the right content. Like there's little value in making a great piece of content that goes on a really tiny channel and no one sees and isn't going to break through in culture.

There's a lot of value in identifying what is going to be a culture defining moment and being inside that particular show. So you don't always know. I mean, I would say White Lotus because it's such an incredible show. But imagine if you'd read that script and said, okay, some really rich people go to a hotel at completely sports and someone gets murdered.

You know, would brands want to be inside of that? Hell no. Um, however, it's been extremely successful. Brands are all over it by series three and it's, it has been a culture defining moment. So can you, you know, there are tools to kind of detect what might break through, but it's also the magic. Who thought squid game was going to break through?

Yeah. 

Sam: So. Sometimes there's a bit of luck. Sometimes there's a bit of data and insight and, and, and all those tools that can help you detect those, those gems, but you, it's important to be, you know, either in something that's really solid. So we've got the big brothers and they've got talents that will keep on delivering audiences, even in a.

A nonlinear world, and then you've got these, these little cultural moments like traitors or 

Justin: yeah, 

Sam: or squid game that you would never would have guessed. 

Justin: Yeah, yeah. And the algorithm won't necessarily pick those up, right? And, uh, yeah, AI is not going to take over, uh, content creation just yet, hopefully. But, uh, um, uh, have, you know, audiences are more discerning now than ever before when it comes to, uh, uh, content creation.

Content and, uh, I think there's ever raising expectations about the quality of content. Um, how do you think that, um, You maintain trust with viewers, uh, when you're creating shows. I mean, um, what's the secret to ensuring that content doesn't feel like that extended ad? And we touched on it earlier on when Sam was talking about Ancestry, this unbranded content, which is Seems a super, really, really brave move on part of a brand.

Um, I mean, is that the future? Do you think? And whereas that was a brand actually activates it outside the actual show itself? Or what's your views on that? 

Javier: Well, I think the models are very different in each case, no? But yes, I think the future is Just working, uh, with brands that understand, uh, that if they want to enter in the brand content, uh, universe, they need to focus on telling great stories.

And the rest, uh, you can build it in a way that it can impact your audience in, in different ways. Uh, like as I said, uh, transmedia products, uh, with the talent in themselves. Uh, with other type of active action. Activations that the brands can have more presence in the, in the content. Uh, it's not like, okay, uh, you're gonna.

Play this game. Yes. Uh, in your way. No, this game is different. Uh, you have to understand that you are telling stories because you want to build your audience. You want to create a community of fans. Uh, you want to well, to show your customers, uh, that your values and your, uh, Brands propositions is cool, uh, and they're going to like it, uh, your story is amazing.

And yeah, that way, uh, well, it's, uh, it's, uh, it's, it's, it's only about content. So the more organically you keep, uh, the story and the brands involved in the, in the content, uh, the better for the, For the, well, for the, for the purpose. No, so, um, yes. And then of course, uh, amplify these, uh, opportunities with other type of products, transmedia elements, talent, social media, et cetera.

Then it's another, another thing. But brand content itself, uh, you have to keep it, uh, real, authentic. You want to do the, well, look at Red Bull, for example, no, uh, uh, Well, it's amazing. No, there are pioneers and 

Justin: well, they're really created. I suppose that, you know, a new generation of brand funded programming, didn't they?

And they still do. And it's amazing content you see right across platforms. Absolutely. Yeah. Um, Roberta, um, brand safety is really a hot topic, especially with the rise of digital platforms. Um, how do you navigate, uh, ensuring that both the content and the brand align? Um, with the values of the audience and the platform, how do you, you know, how do you make sure that brand safety is, you know, is at the forefront of what you're, what you're working on?

Roberta: It also depends on the, let's say, off come regulation in all the countries that we are working with. So we are very careful about, um. Delivering a content that is really aligning with the local regulations, but also in general, this is very key now to, uh, to understand, to take care of with our producers and writers to come up with a content that is brand safe and it's, um, you know, can be an issue and a broad one, but it has to be in line with the brief, as always.

I think with the rising of the platform. So this is something very, um, that we need to address a lot more. For example, with Ferrero, we have developed this short series on YouTube on their YouTube channel for kids, and it's about the wildlife of cubs in their ecosystems, and it's all pure editorial content.

Yeah. And despite the off come regulation that way, we Don't where we can't have this content live on YouTube because it's for kids and it's chocolate. But we find a way Doing that purely editorial to deliver a great content for kids. That is, you know, brand safe and it's really really nice And then besides the YouTube channel, it will be also distributed on platforms So it's really up to you know, touch multiple platforms for different target audiences like kids and Gen Z You You know, this is multiplies the opportunities for our world for our branded funded ecosystem.

Justin: Yeah. Um, now as streaming services and digital platforms evolve, Sam, um, where do you see the biggest growth opportunities now for brand funded programming? 

Sam: Well, streamers are going to have to change their tune a little bit. Um, I mean, there's all kinds of ways to get into streaming content, whether it's through a off air brand partnership, or we've seen Emily in Paris, which is chock a block with product placement and branded integrations.

But it's still a little bit fuzzy. People aren't sure. Um, the way most of my clients get into streamers is through prop placement. So there's no payment involved, but we look after the brand. And we, we gift the product to the production. 

Justin: Well, that's interesting because there are different types of Because there's no compliance then.

Yeah. I could do 

Sam: that for BBC as well. 

Justin: Right. Okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. So you've got prop placement. Yeah. You have brand funded programming. And, uh, what are the other ways that you work with brands getting Product placement. Yeah. So the 

Sam: product placement will be paid. And we were talking about brand safety before.

Justin: Yeah. 

Sam: And that will be working very closely with the costume designer or the set designer whom we know. And saying, you know This is going to be on air for this many minutes, touched by this particular character. And once you've paid for that, you've got those guarantees. 

Justin: Right. 

Sam: Or you give it to them and 

Justin: You see if it actually makes the 

Sam: yeah But if you have a good relationship with the people who are creating the show Then there shouldn't be a brand safety issue because you've already checked all the boxes and 

yes 

Sam: You're helping them because they need to decorate their set.

Yeah, 

Sam: and they need authentic products to make it look real. 

Yeah 

Sam: And then brand funded, which is from the bottom up, but the brand gets involved. And it can be, it can be money, but it can be in kind. So back to Ancestry, they'll provide research or DNA testing kits or genealogists that may not put cash in.

And then the fourth way is co marketing. So the show's gone on air. How does the brand maximize that IP and, and use it for their own gain, but also driving viewers back to the show itself? So that's a really nice symbiotic way for brands to work with any piece of content. 

Justin: Yeah. Now, um, As I just mentioned, there's different types of, of, of ways that brands can get incorporated into programming.

And, and I imagine there's quite a few misconceptions, uh, you know, in terms of from a, from a brand perspective, and also potentially from a producer perspective as well. What, could, can you, each of you give me an example of, you know, what, What the most common misconceptions you think that there are, you know, that that, that you've come across on a daily basis?

Have you, have you, the, 

Javier: the very common is the expectations that the brand has, uh, against the, the, the talent and, and the, and what the producers we want and, and, and the streamers. So, so, so while this is a complex equation, uh, you need, need to be in the middle Yeah. Juggling with all interest. Uh, and, and this is always the same.

I mean, it's, it's very, very common and it's very frequent to have this kind of. Let's say situations in which you have to put everything in order, uh, especially the brand's expectation. No, they had to be really aware of what they're going to achieve, what they are going to have, and what you're going to be able to provide at the end, no?

Both in content, distribution, promotion, and everything, no? So this is very, very common, no? This is, I guess, happens to you, no? All day, no? 

Yeah. Yeah. 

Javier: Yeah, it's the 

Justin: same for you, Roberto, is that? Absolutely. 

Javier: Oh, sorry. You mentioned before, um, the combination of teams that know the language of brands and content is key.

And nowadays, there is a lack of people that are experts in both worlds. In our case, we have a workforce. With brands and in content. So we are very well integrated, but it's true that the traditional TV producers or producers, well, they have not that much expertise because it's normal. And when it comes to a brand funded programming, They have these kind of issues because they want to defend their content and the brand want to defend their interest.

And, well, it's a process. It's a process. So, either you have someone in the middle that address that situation, or you have a combined team that understand the whole situation. Uh, thing I can't read it properly. No. So 

Justin: communication sounds like very important, right? It's the key 

Javier: watchword from the program people that are really, really aware of what they are doing and what they want to achieve, you know, because otherwise it's nightmare.

No, you have Teams, uh, against teams, you know, uh, but I think now I think that it's changing, especially because of the need of money. That's true. The industry is suffering on what we should need funds to, to get things away on what the brand funding seems to be an opportunity. 

Justin: It seems like a perfect time because there's less and less money for content and, uh, there's still a huge appetite for, for content.

Um, 

Sam: But Justin, the problem is that sometimes producers think that a brand is going to come along and fund whatever, 100 percent wherever it goes. So that's 

Justin: a misconception on the production side. I was 

Sam: about to tell 

Roberta: this. And they think they have a lot of money to invest. Sometimes it's 

Sam: just, uh, you know, for tiny digital channel and they think they're going to fully fund something versus being on Netflix, not understanding that it's all about the ROI investment.

Well, 

Justin: I mean, I mean, that's, that's, that's really interesting. The, the, the fact of new brands coming into the marketplace and becoming entertainment brands in their own right. But, um, I mean, how, I mean, I'm not going to ask any figures, but how do you calculate the value of brand, of a brand funded programming deal, whether it be, whether it be product placement or, or, or, uh, prop placement, should I say?

How do you calculate it? I mean, where, where does a, how does a producer know to charge 10, 000 or 100, 000 or a million dollars? 

Roberta: When it comes to brand funded, it's about, uh, you know, production costs, uh, uh, basically on, uh, on the program you are developing. So it's up to the label to come up with the cost based on the 

Justin: budget.

It's, it's, it's, it's, it's the 

Roberta: budget. It's yeah. Yeah. It's the budget given, uh, how many episodes of the structure of the, of the program. Uh, and also what it's going to be live. It's going to be on air because it depends from streamers to broadcasters. I mean, the, the time slots, uh, whether it's daytime or prime time, it really depends on.

The level of production effort you're doing, uh, and then there's the media value, obviously. So the fact that you're, you know, going to a premium slots or daytime slots, it really, you know, varies the media value of the project. But this is for, let's say, brand funded and product oriented. Placement, but it's easier because it comes with a broadcaster, no commercial team.

So there are rates, there are, you know, precise price list to match with the media value of those broadcasters. So that's easy. It's different from when it comes to scripted, for example, scripted is a whole when I talk about that tomorrow, I think. Yes, 

Justin: we 45 in the producers hub. So Uh, if you're in, uh, can come down and, uh, we're going to go into lots more detail and lots of different aspects.

So make sure you're there. But yes, yeah, absolutely. 

Roberta: On the scripted, it's even more tricky, uh, because, uh, you don't know, uh, how much, uh, uh, the theatrical project will be, where it will be distributed. Because at the very beginning, you don't know exactly when you start writing that, uh, where this will be distributed.

So you don't know the value, exact value of the distribution of that product scripted, whether it's a movie or a TV series or whatever. So it's very difficult to come up with, uh, with the price. So sometimes it's, uh, you match the production needs. You match the production value. Uh, you have to really balance a little bit the presence of the brand.

Uh, 

Javier: client's budget, 

Roberta: the client's budget. Exactly. At the end 

Javier: of the day, it doesn't matter how you calculate because at the day, you have a client that is going to tell you, look, Had this and I cannot spend more than this. Okay, so you need that just and tweak and redo things. No, it's the final 

Justin: point. Then it happens is 

Javier: that's the brand's budget, right?

Because they're the ones spending the money, of course, you need to value a lot of factors and consider distribution, media, valuation, budget, etcetera. Uh, an exposure or whatever, but yes, at the day, you, you, you, you, you, you, you have to, what, to, to deal with the reality of the, of the budget. So, yes. And 

Justin: I'm sure we could go into much more detail about other different pots of budgets that are around brands and media agencies and everything else.

But, um, so one final question for each of you. Um, For everybody watching today, who's interested in exploring the world of brand funded programming, probably from a production producer perspective, what's the one piece of key advice you would give them as they, as everybody, all producers are looking for more money at the moment.

What's the one piece of advice you would give new producers moving into brand funded programming world? 

Sam: Hire a translator. So whether that translator is sitting in house or whether you're hiring an agency, but someone who sits between the brand and the producer, speaks both languages, and can make sure everyone's happy.

Justin: Alright, okay. Roberta? 

Roberta: Um, to me it's, uh, um, do programs that, uh, everybody wants to watch in the end, generally, because, uh, sometimes brands, uh, brief us on something that nobody will ever see. Watch. Uh, so it's very important to come up with ideas that, uh, are, um, competitive towards other contents. We have lots of content to watch nowadays, so we really need to be in the heart of what's interesting for the audience, obviously, and also for broadcasters.

So it doesn't matter if it's a niche project or a very broad project, but it has to be in the radar of the broadcaster and the streamers. Uh, to be able to then be distributed, uh, because you can have the most beautiful brand funded program from the creative point of view, but then if we, it's not distributed, uh, there's no point nobody's gonna watch.

It's nobody. It's no 

good for anybody. Yeah. 

Roberta: And so sometimes we try to, um, you know, disrupt the brief from the client, uh, trying to direct into other directions, um, because it's gonna be, you know, most, um, you know, likely to be distributed and to be produced by broadcaster. So, yeah. 

Justin: Okay. And, uh, Javier, what's, uh, what's your piece of advice, would you say?

Javier: You already said, uh, but I would say, um, like three pillars, you know, in addition to what my colleagues mentioned. Great content and great talent attached. Um, great distribution, uh, for us, these three pillars are, are the, the, the, the key, uh, well, to, to do this, this business, uh, absolutely. Yeah. 

Justin: Yeah. Well, um, listen, thank you very much for coming on TellyCast live from the Palais.

We could talk for a lot longer and there's lots of different, uh, questions that I have, but we are going to get to through some of those on the panel tomorrow. So, uh, Okay. Thanks. Looking forward to that. Again, 9. 45 in the Producers Hub on day three of Mipcom. Well, that's about it for, from day two of the TellyCast Live from the Palais.

Thanks a lot for watching. I hope you've enjoyed the show. If you have any questions or comments for day three, just drop them in the comments below. Thank you to our sponsors, ITV Studios, and Shooting in Spain, a brand of ISEX, invest in Spain for making these shows possible. We'll be back again for the final day of MIPCOM 2024 tomorrow at one o'clock Central European time here on YouTube and LinkedIn.

We'll see you then. Well, that's about it for this week's show. I hope you enjoyed it. TellyCast was recorded in Cannes and produced by Spirit Studios. You can check out more videos from Mipcom on our YouTube channel, which is TellyCastTV on YouTube. We'll see you again next week.