Sweating the Small (Big!) Stuff - TellyCast Digital Content Forum Panel

Join us for this panel session from the TellyCast Digital Content Forum, titled “Sweating the Small (Big) Stuff ”. 

Moderated by Annabel McCleod from Love Productions, this session features leading experts in digital content: Anna-Lee Bridgstock from Jungle Creations, Victor Bengtsson from The Sidemen, and Graham Swallow from Little Dot Studios. Together, they discuss how to grow and monetise digital-first content, optimise audience engagement using data and AI, and crack the YouTube algorithm. From building a lean data team to mastering thumbnails and creating mid-content, this session covers everything you need to succeed in today’s content economy.

Transcript

Justin Crosby: [00:00:00] Hi, I'm Justin Crosby and welcome to TellCcast. We're taking a trip back to November's Telecast Digital Content Forum this week for a live panel session entitled Sweating the Small Big Stuff. Moderated by Annabel McLeod from Love Productions, this session features leading experts in digital content.

Anna Lee Bridgestock from Jungle Creations, Victor Benson from The Sidemen, And Graham Swallow from Little Dot Studios. Together, they discuss how to grow and monetize digital first content, optimize audience engagement using data and AI, and crack the YouTube algorithm. From building a lean data team to mastering thumbnails and creating mid form content, this session covers many key aspects that creators need to master in today's content economy.

You can check out the video from this session and many other panels from the event on the Telecast YouTube channel. [00:01:00] Just search Telecast TV on YouTube or click the link in the episode description. So, here's the panel session. I hope you enjoy the show. 

Annabel McCleod: Hi everyone, I'm Annabelle, um, and I'm joined by some very impressive people.

Um, we had like a conversation just before this and there was loads of good stuff that came out. So, rather than kind of going through what, you know, Everyone was here, which is brilliant. I'm gonna ask some questions and hopefully you'll see how brilliant I think they are as well. So between them, their business has managed over 10, 000 channels and pages, and they've also published that equivalent alone in the last month.

So there's a lot of knowledge in this room. We'll be talking about how to build audiences, data, AI, that Mr Beast hand, but leak, um, and probably towards the end of the, um, Of this. I'll also kind of ask some questions as well. So welcome. Thank you for joining me today. Um, let's start with zero from zero. So, Victor.

Victor Bengtsson: Yeah. Hello. So [00:02:00] 

Annabel McCleod: imagine you've got a YouTube channel. 

Victor Bengtsson: I do. 

Annabel McCleod: Um, and there's like zero followers on that. What actually works? What's commonly done wrong? And what's something that people think is important, but actually it really is? 

Victor Bengtsson: Um, obviously we have collectively over our channels around 210 million. So the boys have done well, um, when we speak to brands and we speak to people who are about to start channels, especially stakeholders, the question that we kind of ask back is, do you know why you're on YouTube?

Um, and I, I would say nine out of 10 times they don't. Um, and the question then becomes, do you want me to tell you how YouTube channels work and how you actually make them function? It's going to be. No answer fits all of the questions, right? But things that we immediately talk about is, is your channel aiming to be niche and, uh, finding your niche or applying a niche to your strategy?

That's the first question. YouTube is not an algorithm that functions like a social platform. It's a broadcasting platform. You [00:03:00] have to be consistent in what you put out. But finding the niche is the first step we do. The next thing we look at is, if your team is, and this is the most common thing, most people are really, really mediocre at their jobs.

Um, and because they don't do this for a living. They do this eight hours a day. Creators do it 24. And they don't have unions. They don't have rules that govern them to stop when it's time to stop. They burn out on purpose to get better than you. Uh, we can't compete against that. So, when we sit down, is to figure out, do you have team members that can actually compete with people who are doing what the creators are doing?

And then, when we got that established, the final thing to figure out is, are you answering questions, or are you trying to be the recommended that comes after a video? Because you have to break into one or the other. And search is simply questions that people have. Uh, recommended is I've watched something I liked.

YouTube then services you something. Can you be that, uh, video get serviced? Uh, so those are the three things that we need to look at. If you were to look at, like, you have zero followers. Where do you go now? 

Annabel McCleod: Okay, amazing. And I know you [00:04:00] talked a little bit before about kind of like, Thumbnails like people often kind of over complicate them sometimes as people think about cadence in one way But actually it's something else like Jonah talk a bit.

Victor Bengtsson: Oh, yeah I mean we the number that we have another this is obviously some of you may be really good at your jobs I hope you are. I'm not necessarily. I'm a cow farmer from South of Sweden and now I'm running these channels So something went wrong or something went really, right? But when it comes to things like thumbnails titles Stuff like that.

The number one thing is kill your brand your brand has no value You No one cares about that you made this. I'm really happy for you and your team that you made this video. Congratulations. But Peter and Scunthorpe doesn't really care. So kill off all brand. We don't need to know that this thumbnail is from you.

We need to know that it works on the platform. So figure out how you use what we call contrast technique and contrast is that you need to understand if your main focus of the picture is doing what it needs to do with the background and then does it communicate with your title? You One of my favorite thumbnails that did really well, [00:05:00] two, maybe one and a half, two years ago, is a person who said, I walked across an entire country, and then it's a picture of his feet.

One has a shoe on it, bright, new, sunshine. The other half of the thumbnail is just his foot, but it's completely broken toes. Um, I don't know who he is. I watched the video. Maybe I'll return to some of his videos. I don't know. But the packaging, that's also what we refer to it as, was perfect. Um, so when it comes to thumbnails, It's very simple.

Be simple. Be almost dumb. You're communicating with four year olds. Make it 

Annabel McCleod: that. Okay. Alright, so, um, let's imagine you're working with a brand with an established IP. Um, there's an ambition to generate some serious revenue. I was thinking, just for the TV people, like, six to eight figures. Um, is there really money in social media?

I think that's the first part. And if you had that brief, what would you do with it? Which platform would you focus on? What would you invest and how long would you actually need to spend in order to kind of get back a meaningful return? And I'm going to go to you, Graham, because I think you've [00:06:00] got a good answer on this one.

Graham Swallow: Uh, yeah. So can you make money on YouTube? I think probably yes. Um, it does work sometimes. Uh, this, this surprised me recently. So I'll try and kind of overlay TV audiences in the UK with what that might look like on YouTube. So let's say you've got a top 10 show. Each week does about 5 million views. Can you get 5 million views on a one hour YouTube video?

Well, yes, you really can quite easily. Um, and lots of, lots of creators and brands and publishers do. Um, but what does that, what might that mean in terms of money? Um, so this is at the very top end, the, the extreme end of stuff that, that I've observed very recently. We've had a video that's hit over a hundred dollars.

R-P-M-R-P-M is revenue per thousand views. Now granted that is. Insane numbers for YouTube, and it was specific to TV viewers in the US. So clearly the richest market at probably the [00:07:00] richest point in time for there being advertising on YouTube, i. e. election week. But even if you half that and say, right, I'm going to get five million views on a one hour video at 50 revenue per thousand, that's a quarter of a million dollars.

You're also probably not going to get that much. Half it again. Well, you're still over a hundred thousand dollars. Now it's not necessarily that easy to get people to watch a one hour piece of content on YouTube. The trick is start with a two hour piece of content and you'll get one hour worth of viewing.

But it's really not that hard to get five million views on a show. So yes, you can absolutely make it work. 

Anna Lee Bridgstock: Okay, Emily, I was gonna say the same thing, actually. So we've got multiple long form episodes of series which have made in in excess of six figures. Um, and I think the other part of that is around the production costs of a TV or the series on social.

It's much, in most cases, a lot less than on TV. So if you say it costs 100 grand for us to do an eight episode series for social, um, but we make 500 grand off the [00:08:00] back of those eight episodes, you've got a 400 grand profit straight away. So definitely can make money for it. And I saw a stat yesterday that was like 95 percent of Gen Z looking to social for TV viewing.

And then they actually then go on to TV to watch that series as well. So you're not only creating a new revenue stream, you're also creating. More audience for your existing revenue stream too. So I think, um, yeah, definitely can. Okay. Victor? 

Victor Bengtsson: Uh, I mean, yeah, that's where I make all my money. Um, we, we, we have some rules.

They're quite simple when you, obviously we look at TV and the summer we created a reality TV show called inside and when the company runs, uh, and just give you some quick context, we are on, 34. My average age is 24. I hire primarily on personality. Uh, I think most people can learn their jobs within the first three months, unless it's a hard skill, then it takes longer.

Uh, but that team now around 40 worldwide. We made a reality TV show with the intention of how hard is it to make Love Island? And, turns out it's pretty fucking hard. [00:09:00] Uh, which, which is great for the people who work in TV. Uh, but we made that from an ideation session in January. Uh, we released, we then went into production in May.

We shot for 24 hours, seven days. Then we released it from last camera press. It was eight days of edit and marketing strategy. And then we released it eight days later. Uh, and then we calculated spend versus revenue. And then we laughed and just sat there and had a great time. Uh, we obviously uploaded this on YouTube.

Uh, we got 55 million views in the first 10 days. Um, And, yeah, the person who made it had never done a TV show in their life. Uh, so that was terrifying, but at the same time, it proved a point, which was like, If you kind of just get down into the trenches and you get going and you try to make it, there is a formula that can make a lot of money, uh, but there are still, and I will be rough around the edges as fuck, like we really are, uh, but we learned a lot from it and I think one of our key things is moving now towards making more productions that could almost feel TV esque, but nowhere near the production [00:10:00] levels of what a TV production is.

Annabel McCleod: What is the formula? 

Victor Bengtsson: Just spend less on people that shouldn't be getting paid. Um, uh, yeah. Uh, so I think we were pitched by some production company for story producers and we're like, what are they possibly going to do? Um, so we had one story producer and, uh, we, we basically had a production team that came in, we tried to run it as lean as possible.

Uh, the team from our side was 12 people for seven days. Obviously in the post production and the pre production, we had an editing team. Uh, the editing team made the entire season in 8 days, which I won't be doing again, it was more to prove a point, and I mean, if any of them see this, I'm sorry, guys. Uh, but the formula is to understand that TV has systems in place that protect the world of TV.

And they're correct in a lot of it, but they're wrong in some of it. And we're trying to basically go in and say, what are the things they're wrong about and can we lower the costs there? 

Annabel McCleod: Okay. And moving [00:11:00] on to data, we've got to date ads here. So Annalie, um, you've built three data teams. Now you built the team at jungle creations.

Is it possible to build a lean data team? What does that look like? And also if you cut, you're starting from scratch and actually you can't afford to kind of bring in those specialists, what could people actually do right now? Yeah, 

Anna Lee Bridgstock: cool. So yes, you can build a lean data team and a lot of the time you have to obviously in these businesses.

So I always hire. Actually, you kind of summed up really perfectly. I always hire on personality first because Your budget is low at the beginning. You don't know where you're gonna go, which direction it's going to take, you know, what days you even got, um, what the business objectives might change halfway through your build as well.

So I always hire based on someone who's got that hunger, that energy, the skillset that can kind of shift and grow as well. So they might be in insights and research, but actually really interested in doing, you know, more analytical stuff. And actually then they span across multiple things. So I've always hired on personality.

I do [00:12:00] generally hire insight first because that will give you. I guess the commercial value. So I think a lot of people who signed the the budgets off want to see the commercial numbers at the end. So they want to see it and they want to see like the storytelling behind it. So generally, I hire insight first, then build the road map, which then will give you the outcomes of what you need from a more technical perspective.

So you work out what you have, then you build that way. Um, there was one more question at the end. 

Annabel McCleod: Yeah. Um, if you're if you don't have the money to kind of bring in specialists, what can you do more practically? 

Anna Lee Bridgstock: Um, I think So one thing I would recommend is just having a really quick look at implementing a model like daily, weekly, monthly, quarterly.

So even if you go to a creative team and you say write daily, what's one answer or one insight that would help you every single day? And it could literally be, I'm looking at this post that I did yesterday or a hundred posts I did yesterday. Are any of them above benchmark? Yes, no, why? One thing and then share that back.

And then they get more and more curious every day because you tell them like one guiding [00:13:00] question every day. Same with the weekly question. Same with the monthly question. And then just start really small and just guide with what the outcome should be rather than like looking at the big data, I would say.

Annabel McCleod: Okay. And then if you are kind of starting that way, is it literally like an Excel sheet? Are you kind of looking at what does that? What is that? 

Anna Lee Bridgstock: Yeah, I think we talked about this before this panel. It was I when I was a very big social publisher and actually even even our current one. Now we We just look at the most basic numbers.

It could just be a post goes live, and then we would have a slide and a sheet and it would be benchmark yesterday, benchmark today. And I was like, Why are you doing it manually? And they're like, because I'm learning as I'm writing it down. It was the littlest thing, and it's not as efficient, obviously, as having a dashboard, but actually it works for them.

So it can be as simple as I'm writing the number every day, because that's how my brain works. And just Yeah, whatever is simple, whatever is basic just works, but we can automate things as well. 

Annabel McCleod: But yeah, interesting. And Graham, This is a question for all, but I'll start with you, Graham. Um, can you share an example of how data has transformed your business?

Graham Swallow: Um, [00:14:00] yeah, plenty. Uh, I'd just, I'd just say about building a lean data team. Little Dot Studios is about 500 people and about 490 of them are creative. Um, and the other 10 are the data people. So we are lean in that, in that world. And so, Step out of creative decision making towards looking at some numbers and thinking, how can I make a creative decision off the back of that data point?

That's telling me something. Um, that's uh, that's a step forward. Um, an insight that's changed. So we, I don't want to give, I don't want to give away the entire secret source of little dot studios. Um, but, uh, You can, you can upload any length of content you want onto YouTube. You could upload a one minute short and enjoy your five cents a thousand, or you could upload a five hour video and enjoy your hundred dollars a thousand.

Um, but therein lies a problem. How do you know what to upload? Should I be uploading thirty minutes, sixty minutes, five minutes, two hours? Um, and normally the answer is well it's a blend of all of those things [00:15:00] because everyone's different and they might want to watch different lengths of content. And, uh, what we're able to do is analyze at scale all the different content lengths we're uploading on a ton of our own channels and recognize that we're underserving a particular part of the audience.

And by switching away our focus from, uh, from one particular content length to another, we doubled the revenue over the course of about 30 days. And when you're in our business where we've been doing this for about 10 years, doubling revenue over 30 days across 100 channels, It's a massive change. It was a huge impact and none of that came from the creative teams and all of it just came from crunching numbers, so it can be enormously powerful.

Annabel McCleod: Okay, I've got a short amount of time, so I'm going to move on. Um, but I know that you probably had some great answers for that one, but moving on to the content. Um, so in the Mr Beast leak, he said your goal here is to make the best YouTube videos possible. It's not to make the best produced videos, not to make the funniest videos, not to make the best looking videos.

Not the highest quality videos. It's to make the best [00:16:00] YouTube videos possible. So, Victor, in our pre chat, you talked about how, um, your interest in making mid content, and also that you like to create YouTube first rather than digital first. And that one of the key world is rules is that it's our entertainment.

So can you just explain what that means? Really? From a content perspective, 

Victor Bengtsson: we have a couple of rules that we follow, and one of them is that it's, it's, it's not art, it's entertainment. And if you want to work in art, there's so many places that don't make money that work in that. And you should go there.

Uh, Because we cannot have pretension at this point. We don't have the budgets. We don't have the system. We don't have the community that will support that yet. Um, so the idea is that whatever we're creating, the idea is that it has to be entertainment for our audience before it is fulfilling any form of purpose on your artistic aspirations.

And YouTube right now, as we just mentioned, you have to figure out how you get the most amount of money out of a format. So when we sit down and look at what we now call mid content, it's essentially We need to make a [00:17:00] video that gets the same laugh as an expensive video does. So let's start by trialing how far back we can pull production, for example.

So our second channel is very much about formats. If there's a format that does really, really well on the second channel, then that will graduate up to the first channel. And if it does really, really well there, then it goes into production to potentially become its own stand alone show. So mid content is not saying that that's the end goal, but it's basically saying if I, my advantage is that you, um, Well, not you guys, but people who make TV needs to get commissioned and then put it up or needs to secure budget to shoot it or try it.

I can just try the format itself without any budget I'll spend sitting in a sofa in a living room and then pushing it out. And if it gets six million views instead of two million views, then I probably hit something here. And then that goes into further. How do we now spend more money on that format to make it better?

So the idea of mid content or. It's entertainment first. It's simply that we don't have time to do anything that doesn't make money. And I'm talking to the level of like, we have a profit margin that we try to hit on [00:18:00] every level of every video. And if you're a creative that comes in and gets told the only purpose of your creative is profit, it's really tough, but I might be able to give you that budget to do something purely fun five years from now, when we've established this scene.

And when you look at Mr. Beast, they're completely different to how we operate. They're also a much bigger machine. Uh, what he's talking about is that YouTube is lower end production When you look at the things that are being spent on in tv So he's spending insane amounts of money of getting 10 laborghinis to throw them into a fire pit You don't do that on tv.

It would it would be weird spent Uh, I don't even know if that's correct from his side But that's what he's talking about when he's talking about his ideology and how he approaches it. Um, so youtube first is almost Explosive to him and it's slightly changing now narrative is coming back in a bigger way Um But we're slightly different, but that's what he's talking about.

Annabel McCleod: Okay, and then thinking about data Um, obviously Henry Ford said if we if I asked my customers what they'd want it They'd build they'd say they wanted a faster horse. What's your view on that kind of [00:19:00] line between data driven versus like creativity?

Graham Swallow: It's not a line It's a false dichotomy not to challenge the question particularly Um All information can be broken down into data and data can be turned into a creative insight and creative insight can be turned into numbers. Um, so it's really what is your inspiration for making the decision you made about any aspect, whether that is an edit of a pre existing piece of content or a decision about how you're going to create the thumbnail or title it or write the description or or create a compilation of these 20 assets that I've got.

Um, And you can use data to help you in that decision making process. Um, you can use data to, to get you off the ground and say, right, um, let's take all the elements of this particular IP that are about this character. And then the creative execution of that is fully, fully without data. Um, [00:20:00] in that sense, or you could go about it the other way entirely.

So, um, it, I understand the premise of the question, but it's, it's just false. If YouTube. If YouTube didn't have data, it wouldn't exist as a platform, right? It would just be another failed TV station, right? It would just show, show videos and some people watch them and then they didn't and that would be the end.

Um, so it, it's kind of, um, it's built in. 

Annabel McCleod: And Annalie, so you consider the bottom line of every asset. How, can you just explain how that works? Um, and how that's informed output in the workflow? 

Anna Lee Bridgstock: Yes. So we have two really incredible data driven programs at jungle creation. So one is what we call video macroeconomics.

It's basically looking at every single asset line by line. How much it costs to deliver that one asset, time span, hard costs, whatever it might be. And then it's all connected into a system that we also built, which has revenue per line, basically. On a actually monthly basis and actually even even [00:21:00] fortnightly as well.

We actually look to see what channels performing what assets performing formats that aren't working are working and we do choose to rest a lot of those. So yeah, just just because it's not making us money or we do optimize as well, quite quickly as well. So that's the first one. The second one is we've got a data driven solution called jungle IQ, which is essentially an AI powered solution that looks at every single frame of every video that we upload, including voice as well, and it tags Thumbnails, items, uh, images, voices, brands, celebrities, emotions.

And then we tie it all in again to that economics piece. So what has driven that revenue? Are there any correlations that we can kind of move on? Make, make better, you know, push out further. So yeah, 

Annabel McCleod: and that's a lot of data. Like, yes, how do you, are you both like drowning? Are you all like drowning in data?

Like, is there any kind of like data points that you're like, everyone keeps asking me about this, but actually I'd rather never look at it again. I 

Anna Lee Bridgstock: think it's I sort of start a couple of months ago. It was like 95 percent of what we collect. We don't use as in not way the world. But, um, [00:22:00] say I use, um, but I think there is too much.

And I think what? What? What? What I is doing really well is helping us Find the trends that are happening. So instead of having to look for something, it kind of flag something up. This is a correlation. This seems to be happening more often than not. So that is definitely helping us kind of see through it rather than just leaving it 

Annabel McCleod: there.

Thank you. So there's a question from the audience around what's the best sources of data to make decisions. What would you say to that? It depends on what you're 

Victor Bengtsson: trying to do. I mean, as we just mentioned, I think the USP of YouTube is that the back end has a lot of valuable data. And if you know how to handle that data, then you can make a really educated decisions on what you're going to do next.

There's also things that don't really matter, like there's a CTR that tracks your CTR click through rate. It's really not that important. That important in general. Meanwhile, what you look at when you create something is how long, how many views did he get on it and how long was the average duration that basically tells you if you keep the attention of the [00:23:00] viewer and that means how many ads can I show this person?

Uh, I mean, it sounds horrible in that sense, but it's like average iteration is almost the governing stat for us in terms of data. 

Annabel McCleod: Okay. And let's talk about how so, Graham, um, you've mentioned in previous interviews that you've used a I to kind of inform titling. So what does that what did that look like?

What are some of the headlines from that test? 

Graham Swallow: Uh, yes. So very quickly, what we did was, um, we took a bunch of existing video assets, took their metadata, so titles, descriptions, tags, any other information I'm simplifying, um, Gave that to Open AI, ChatGPT, asked it to generate a bunch of keywords that were relevant to that, that kind of content.

And then we optimized the tags on the videos, um, using machine learning model over a period of weeks. And that, nearly in every single case, improved the performance of the videos. So then we trans we've transferred that to a titling model. Um, [00:24:00] so we asked ChatGPT to generate ten candidate titles. And then we cycle through those titles to see if any of those work better or worse than the human generated titles that we were foolishly using up until that point.

Annabel McCleod: And what did you, what's your, 

Graham Swallow: what's 

Annabel McCleod: your view? 

Graham Swallow: Um, titles, titles are a tricky one. Um, some people can be quite protective about titles. They're being some kind of structure to how you title your videos. Um, so it requires quite a lot of flexibility on behalf of the rights holder or the channel manager or just being relaxed about how that works.

Um, I'd say that it's not conclusive. They, they are a little bit better, but it's not really a huge improvement. Um, but also if you can save time by not having to bother titling videos, then there's a saving elsewhere. So it's as good as. Decent title generated by somebody who's good at writing titles.

Annabel McCleod: Okay, I've got one minute left, so I'm gonna ask you an audience question and [00:25:00] maybe one of my final one. So the question is, how do you get insight into what's happening beyond your own channels? Like, what do you do in your businesses? Should I take that? Yeah. 

Anna Lee Bridgstock: Um, so there's a number of tools that are free, but also So there's there's ones like social blade.

You can get lots of logins for that. Um, trials for that. Um, tubular is very good for social competitive data. Um, matters remove most of their competitive stuff. So yeah, tubular is a very good one. Um, but yeah, there's a lot of public publicly available. There's lots of plug ins like upfluence that give you engagement rates by brand and organically for every single tick tock and Instagram page.

So there's a lot of free stuff out there. But, um, Yeah, I'd say they're the main ones for competitive data. 

Victor Bengtsson: Oh, sorry, just on human level there, we have a title in the company called the YouTube Neek. You look for people who watch Minecraft videos when they were young, and we just get them in and tell us what do you watch, and then tell us what your friends are watching, and then just collect channels.

His name is Finn, he's [00:26:00] great. 

Annabel McCleod: Amazing. Um, there were a few questions. Oh, there were a few questions for you, Victor. But because we don't have loads of time, Victor's hopefully might be around, so please find Victor. Um, but one last question that I had, um, was, can you share something that you've learned about the algorithms that, um, Some might be surprised by.

We'll start with Victor. 

Victor Bengtsson: Uh, the algorithm doesn't matter that much. Uh, you're probably just not good enough at making videos. Uh, that is the number one thing we learn. Uh, we are not good enough. And I know we're not good enough. And that comes down to how you approach the first 60 seconds of a video.

Those things are important for YouTube creation, but most likely the reason you're not breaking through is because you're not good enough at making YouTube videos. So don't worry about the algorithm. You will find someone who can help you with that. Figure out how you make good YouTube videos first. 

Graham Swallow: Uh, no one understands the algorithm, including YouTube and Google.

If they tell you they do, then they did for five minutes on one particular area, and then after that it was out of date. And finally, 

Anna Lee Bridgstock: I don't even know I can add to that after that, but I think the [00:27:00] one that we have noticed that has made a genuine difference in the past few weeks is the Increase in the importance of community metrics.

So we are seeing shifts in reach if you're more engaged by community management. So actually getting people to engage in comments and bits like that. So there's definitely a shift on that on Instagram and Facebook at the moment. But, uh, yeah, this could be for today and it could change tomorrow. But that's what we've seen the past two weeks.

Amazing. 

Annabel McCleod: so 

Anna Lee Bridgstock: much. 

Justin Crosby: Well, that's about it for this week's show. You can enjoy more content from the Telecast digital content forum on our YouTube channel. Just search Telecast TV on YouTube or click the link in the episode description. Telecast was produced by Spirit Studios and recorded in London. We'll be back next week with another show.

Until then, stay safe.