Inside Channel 4.0: Evie Buckley on Digital Commissioning and Creator Culture

This week on TellyCast, Justin Crosby is joined by Channel 4’s Digital Commissioning Editor and Channel 4.0 lead, Evie Buckley. 

In a wide-ranging and insightful chat, Evie reveals her latest exclusive digital commissions, shares her evolving commissioning strategy, and explains how data, talent, and creator-first thinking are transforming Channel 4’s approach to digital content. They also explore how traditional producers can break into digital, what makes a pitch stand out, and why creators shouldn’t be labelled as influencers. Plus — Hero of the Week, Story of the Week, and what Evie thinks needs to go straight in the bin.

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Transcript

Hi, and welcome to TellyCast, the podcast dedicated to the business of TV and digital first content. I'm Justin Crosby. This week I'm joined by commissioner who's helping shape Channel four's digital and linear content slate. Evie Buckley, digital commissioning editor and Channel 4.0 lead is here to talk about her current.

Commissioning strategy, how Channel four is evolving its content. Mix in a fast moving landscape and exclusive reveal her latest commissions. Plus, as always, we've got here of the week, story of the week and something that needs to get in the bin. That's all coming up on this week's TellyCast. For videos, featuring the moves and shakers of the TV and content industry, just search TellyCast TV on YouTube and hit subscribe.

Hi, Evie, welcome to the show. 

Hi. Thanks for having me. 

Not at all. Great to see you. And, uh, how are things with you? How's, uh, how's everything over at, at Channel four Towers? 

Yeah, it's good. It is busy. It always feels like it's busy at Channel four. Um, but that's a really good thing for me. Um, we've just commissioned quite a few new shows.

We're sort of full into the year now. Uh, I've just got off a sort of three day mega shoot. Um, so it's, it's good. I'm, I'm sort of back in the office and, and ready to sort of wage through the thousands of emails. All right. Sort of accumulate, but very happy. It's 

good. Fantastic. Well, you're very welcome.

Let's start with your role then. Can you just give us a bit of a sense of what your role is within Channel four and what, what your remit covers? 

So I'm a digital commissioning editor and the Channel 4.0 lead within commissioning. So most of my day is. Been sort of taking pictures from production companies, working on those ideas that come through, working with the, um, sort of four studio team who inform our sort of data marketing and strategy, um, as well as sort of like meeting lots of new talent and, uh, working out who is gonna be a next big face on Channel 4.0.

Um, that's sort of it. That's, that's the sort of. The, the main bit of my day. Yeah. 

Okay. Fantastic. Well, you're much in demand, I can imagine. I bet your email list is pretty big when you, you know, you've gotta get through it. So let's talk about commissioning then. You know, things are constantly evolving, particularly in this digital first space.

Can you give us a bit of an insight into how your commissioning strategy or approach has changed perhaps over the last 12 months? 

Channel 4.0 has only been going for two and a bit years, two and a half years. And we've learned so much in that sort of amount of time. We started off commissioning quite broadly, I guess, to a 13 to 24-year-old audience, but have really over the course of, I guess like about 40 plus series, refined in on exactly what is resonating for our audience particularly.

So, um, I guess one of those things is. Target age demographic. If you're a 13-year-old, you're very different to a 24-year-old. So I'd say we've sort of honed in on that sort of 18-year-old sensibility. We know that younger people like to watch up and, and that kind of, um. Tonality and tone of voice is really important for us to achieve and see within the content.

Um, we're really focused on thumbnails and titling. I'm sure you've heard this a lot on that on, on this podcast in particular, but it is so important to get that right. Like when you are opening YouTube, you're flooded with sea of different types of content that you could click on. Why does. Our content cut through.

Um, so increasingly we're looking at thumbnail and titling and packaging at the very start of the commissioning process, which I think something that we've learned increasingly over the course of the last 12 months. Um, I. Pretty solidly into creator comedy entertainment, I'd say is the best way of describing it.

Um, it's never punched down, uh, but very, sort of authentic to the creators that are featuring in our content. Um, I think lots of people would've experienced tone, like, I dunno, I guess authenticity being, um. I guess watered down by brands or broadcasters in the past, but I'm so proud that the content that we make, hopefully lets creators speak in the way that they would to their own audiences, and therefore that translates across to our audiences and they're like, oh, great.

I love that creator on their channels, and now I can enjoy them in this new format that. Maybe sees them in a different light or allows them to explore a slightly different genre. 

Yeah. What it also, your PSB remit is really to, you know, to serve underserved audiences essentially. So it should sort of dovetail perfectly with what creators are creating and, and what works on your channel as well.

Exactly. Like I'm really proud that the type of content we make has authentically been speaking to those young audiences and not sort of, I dunno that there was this trend where, I guess. People were trying to overexplain to young audiences and they'd sort of use a slang word and then put a graphic on screen to explain what that slang word meant.

But you don't need to do that. Like our audiences either know what it is already, or if they don't, they'll just Google it or go on TikTok to work out what that reference point is anyway. Yeah. Um. So, yeah, I think it's speaking. I, I think the best content on YouTube either is like universally relatable or really proud of its niche.

Yeah. And when we are doing things a bit in between those two things, they weren't connecting with anyone. Yeah. Um, so that's my biggest sort of like, takeaway over the last six, 12 months I guess, of like being proudly one thing and going for it and everyone else will catch up. 'cause they want to be part of.

I guess, 

yeah. And that's, that's very much what we've heard on TellyCast over the last couple of years when we've speak to, uh, digital first creators is, you know, find your niche and double down on it, find out what works. But just coming back to your earlier point about thumbnails and titles, et cetera, the world of a Digital first creator and digital, digital first producer.

You know, it's very much different to a traditional TV producer, isn't it? And, and it seems to be, you know, changing evermore speed. So in terms of your role in Channel four and understanding what's gonna work from a data perspective, then you must be really embedded across all of that production workflow because it's really important to know.

Exactly. You know, starting from the thumbnail and starting from the title why that's, you know, why that's gonna inform what the content you are creating. So presumably work, you're working with your data teams to actually find out, okay, this is an opportunity, this is a niche, this is some, this is content that isn't being served to this sort of audience.

There's an audience there, let's go and make it. Is that, is that the sort of, the approach? 

Yeah, definitely. Like obviously commissioning we're, we are responsible for the sort of editorial output primarily and. Of the sort of legal and business affairs stuff and all, all that comes with a traditional relationship between a TV producer or production company and us.

I'm really blessed with this amazing team, um, who are sort of four studio leads based team, and they have all that data. It's a massive warehouse of amazing, uh. I guess like some things I really understand and some things they'll tell me how to sort of interpret that data. Um, but because of that we can exactly see what's spiking with our audience, where the crossover interests are, which creator we should be bringing on.

And we are not expecting our production companies to know all of that 'cause they can't see under the hood in the way that we can. Yeah. But we do try from like maybe the second meeting after Green Light to get everyone in a room and be like, cool, this is gonna resonate with this part of our audience.

Or we should maybe skew slightly female hit, or we should skew, we should try and use this as a play to bring in new talent. And with, um, for studio's team, I'll sort of bounce ideas off them and, and they try and inform sort of as sort of. To the, I guess, minutia detail of, of what we can be doing to improve our content.

For 

a commissioner though, that must be quite empowering to know, you know, to, to, to be making data led decisions rather than a traditional linear commissioner, maybe of five years ago or so who are making that. Risky decision on gut feeling alone, kind of, right? 

Yeah. Yeah. And it, it definitely still has, your gut has to be strong.

But for instance, when we, we've got sort of four series with some of our, our sort of top shows and, um, an example of one of those is a series called Harry's Worst in Class, which is a quiz format where, uh, creators go back to school in a very sort of like, uh, I guess anarchic, chaotic detention, uh, as run by Harry Panero.

He's a brilliant host and. We were, we realized that the sort of retention levels at the top were tipping off a little bit in the intro. We had a quite traditional tele one minute pre-Title intro over explaining the format and kind of showing lots of clips to try and make sure people were watching. And, um, kayo, who's the commissioner on that now?

We sat down with Sasha and looked at it all with the four studio team, and we're like, right, how can we make this more addictive, more instantly? And the solution was to cut down that intro dramatically and feed in the rules as you go. A lot of our viewers are returning, but we don't wanna isolate those that are new.

But like, yeah, I guess linear commissioners don't always have the luxury of being able to see that. Um, on that same show, actually, we, uh, there's a, there's a round at the very end where a kid comes out and they, they're. They're like very cute, but probably quite mischievous. Um, and they're a clip. The clips that were just performing the highest of all, all the clips on that show.

With the kids sort of taking down these creators in a quite charming way. Um, so working with the sort for DJ team, um, I, I just wanted to prove that actually we could make more of that. Um, so it kind of resulted as in briefing the production company who made it, who was so good at connecting this sort of like, tone of voice with these kids.

Uh, we made our biggest hit show, which was, um, minor issues, which is essentially kids rape. Celebrity groups that kids rate rappers, kids rate comedians, kids rate singers, kids rate dancers. And the formula worked and it became sort of a massive hit, like, like hundreds of millions of views across, across platform.

Um, so using that data, I could make a really informed decision on what I wanted to brief out and commission next. Uh, yeah, and it is, and you, you try not to get too obsessed with the data 'cause. Sometimes ideas come through the door and you're like, that's fantastic. We've never done anything like that before.

I wanna give that a try. But it definitely does help to, um. I'd guess give you confidence in how to dial in even more. 

Yeah, absolutely. Well, both those shows that you mentioned are shortlisted for, uh, TellyCast Digital Video Awards. Brilliant. Uh, so, uh, looking to see how they do in June. So you've got some new commissions to announce exclusively on the show, which is brilliant.

So, um, tell us about those. 

So, yeah, really excited, um, to announce the, the first is, um, hear Me Out series. Two. So, uh, hear Me Out is made by After Party Studios, which is a creator, um, LED company. And I think you've had the MD on the podcast before. Yeah, 

that's right. Um, 

we love After Party. They've, they've made some amazing stuff for us and Hear me Out.

The first series, uh, did so well for us across all platforms. When we commissioned it, um, we knew that it was gonna. Do Well, it was quite a data led commission. Um, it's a sort of debate format where, uh, creators argue their hot takes to a panel of a quite, I guess, a counterintuitive group of people. Um, so you might be arguing your hot takes about education to a group of teachers, or you might be arguing your takes about the older generation to a group of aunties.

Um, and it is designed to be, I guess, like. A little bit risky, fun, um, again, never punch down, but also it has that YouTube spirit of like, what if I did this? Which I think is a lot of the YouTube formula. So Hear Me Out. Series one did so well. Um, after Party pitched in, hit Me Out series two with sort of even bigger scale with more, with more panelists, with real, really taking the learnings from what we'd seen over the.

Series one performance and amplifying it to be bigger and better. Um, and we've just finished shooting it and it went really well. 

Alright, fantastic. And how about the other, uh, commission then, Evie? What, uh, what else have you got to announce? So 

the second commission is the Snake, uh, which is made by strong watch, um, studios who are brilliant digital first production company.

The snake essentially sees six creators, um, playing a quiz to win money. Uh, two of those creators know all the answers and the aim is for them to sabotage. The other creators to choose the wrong answers. They accumulate money depending on how many wrong answers are sort of achieved. All the while they're being watched by two experts in lying.

So one episode that might be ex-police officers, one episode, it might be psychics, one episode, it might be ex gangsters. So for me, that commission is. A really, again, sort of YouTube first approach to quiz. You've got, um, counterintuitive pairings. You've got sort of factual contributors meet high entertainment values.

Um, and there's those like authentic stakes 'cause the creators are really going for it. Um, and I think actually Tom Goldman Armstrong Watch said this phrase about our strategy back to me, but, um, it's sort of, it's like a shortcut to familiarity 'cause it draws on lots of familiar, um, I guess. Format beats and, and ideas that we've seen and, and have loved for generations, but it brings it into this very sort of YouTube, um.

Tone of voice, I guess, but for our, that's perfect for our platform. 

Two new commissions then. So what is it that really stood out about those two shows? Obviously you talked about after party and you know, looking at the data that, uh, and, and obviously how, how Well First Season did, presumably this is also about the studios that are making them because though they are too.

Really experience studios when it comes to digital first. So that also must give you an enormous amount of confidence that they're gonna be able to pull off what, you know, what they're promising, which is always, for me, it's always really interesting, you know, that you're going to a commission. And it's, it's a lot about, about that is about trust, isn't it?

That you know that a company's gonna be able to deliver what it promises. So yeah. Tell us about why, why those two commissions? 

Yeah, I mean exactly like you're kind of essentially gonna be working with the people that are pitching to you for the next 12 weeks to six months, depending on how long the production period is in a high pressure environment, in a high pressure environment.

And I think both of those companies have, from the start, and, and all of our producers actually totally show that they really care about the content. I really care about our content. I read every single comment on every piece of 4.0 content, which is. Quite sad, but that is millions and millions of co comments.

And if they've, both of those companies really show that they understand like who we are, who our tone of voice is, who our audience is, what we're trying to achieve. And that's right from the pitch deck, that's with like strategy upfront. And it's not just the idea, it's understanding why that's gonna perform and who it's gonna speak to and that.

Just shows me that they're like, oh, okay, cool. I understand as much or, or I care and understand and I'm, I'm willing to be sort of fed extra info that, um, we can bring, I guess the ideas feel unique. Um, they. Even if some, some aspects are familiar, they have really thought about why it feels 4.0. I get pitched a lot of ideas that kind of, I guess, have dusted off from the hard drive and put a 4.0 logo in and maybe change the talent, but they don't fundamentally feel like the channel.

And I think both of those production companies managed to. Include elements that really, really spoke to me and our audiences. They've done the homework, they've done the homework. Think a good example of that with after party. With he me out is I get pitched a lot of debate shows. Like, like every commissioner gets pitched a lot of sort of debate, like hot, hot take kind of shows.

Yeah. Um, but there were multiple layers on He Me Out that made me want to go for that show. But something that really elevated it was having Specs Gonzales as the host. So Specs is known for his wild hot takes. Um, and I think if you were doing that show in linear, you'd probably have someone with loads of credibility in their sort of like knowledge base.

Yeah. Digital. I want the absolute opposite Specs thinks Australia isn't real. And I'm like, who better to host a show about what takes than the man that I think jokingly Yeah. Has come out and even appeared on Australia News to say that he doesn't think Australia's real. Which, um, you know, like for me that, that's funny.

It's mischievous. Uh, it, it has all the elements of like. Playfulness before you've even clicked. If I'm seeing specs with Hear Me Out, my audience is probably like, oh my God, what madness is he gonna say now? Yeah. And he's the host, so what are the other contributors gonna say? They also, um. Both work as new talent vehicles.

So we've worked with over 150 creators in the last two years since launching 4.0. Um, and it's really important to me, like both personally and professionally, that we're, we're continuing to work with new onscreen talent. So a lot, both of those shows have sort of, um, bigger casts and. Uh, having those spots where we can try out a newer creator means that I'm like, okay, cool.

They can handle themselves in this sort of more highly produced environment than perhaps they do on their own TikTok or YouTube channels. And then I can think about booking them for future shows as well. 

Yeah, well I was gonna ask you about that actually, because, you know, it is quite a leap for them. I think.

You know, when, and a creator is just used to. Perhaps producing themselves or with a very, very small production team, and that's how they've become successful. And then to come into a much, you know, much bigger production environment. You know, I guess that, I guess not everybody can make that transition, right?

Yeah. Like it's, it's interesting 'cause I think. Some people just have that natural star quality. If they'd have been around sort of 15 years ago, they might have been presenting T four or something, but, and they would've gone through this sort of stage school route or whatever. But actually I feel really lucky that I can kind of see from their body of work that they've already.

Produced on their channels, who's gonna work for what show? Um, of course there are some people that struggle with the more produced nature, but I do think our formats allow people to kind of be themselves. Like we're not giving them scripts, we're not writing for them. We're encouraging them to, to. Be themselves.

But yeah, of course there are some that actually are way better suited to connecting with their audiences who are there in the millions, um, when they're just in their bedroom talking to them really naturally. 

Do you think new talent, because they're, they've grown up speaking to camera and being on camera right from, you know, from uh, let's say, you know, five or 10 years, for example, do you think the average new talent that's coming to channel four now is.

Is perhaps more adept at working with camera than, than perhaps and there might have been five or 10 years ago. 

Yeah, definitely. I think, I actually think it, it's a bit similar to the music industry where getting famous was quite an elite, um, privileged. Pathway, I guess like you, it's way more accessible now for a young creator to be able to become big overnight.

Um, you know, you just need a phone and that's why we see such a bigger range of more diverse voices than ever because it's so much more accessible and, and I'm really proud that we can sort of. Give those people a bigger platform. It does mean they're more refined and polished when they come in. And also they're obsessed with the other creators.

Like they all know each other, their heroes aren't Your Graham Nortons. Graham Norton's great. But like a, a sort of 16-year-old creator's hero is probably Chunks or Nella Rose or GK Barry. It's, it's the people that they've grown up watching. It's why the Sidemen are so huge. It's like the fandom is, I guess, like Beatlemania equivalent for the Sidemen or Beta squad.

And therefore those younger creators are really refining their craft and watching and like studying and learning and, and actually collaborating a lot. Like there's a lot of young creators who will go to each other's unis and sit there and make a sketch show together and you're like, oh my God. Like, I mean, my for you page is definitely a 14-year-old boys for you, Paige.

But it's like, you know, oh my God. Like that group is collabing with that group and it's creating something wonderful. So by the time they get to us, there is still, you know. We wouldn't go super, super green, but we have taken chances on people of like lower follow account or that we can see there's something really special.

And, um, channel four, not just Channel 4.0 about, but channel four about from quite a young, like, I guess a grassroots part of their career 

for all of the digital producers out there who are. Desperate to pitch to you and, uh, wanting to know what you're looking for. Can you give us a bit of a sense of, obviously, you know, you've given us a really good example with after Party and Strong Watch and what they've just had commissioned.

So what, what other opportunities out there? What are, what else are you looking for 

on four Point? Uh, I mean, there's a brilliant digital commissioning team just worth saying at Channel four who aren't solely focused on 4.0. We've got our sort of branded team, we've got a factual team, we've got comedy team, um, and they're making amazing content, um, with production companies.

So. If, you know, comedy, entertainment or entertainment isn't for you, there is a lot of other, not loads, but like, there's enough opportunities across our other digital commissioners. It's definitely worth reaching out to us. Um, channel 4.0 we are looking for, I think it's more of a tonality within an entertainment format than it is anything else.

Um. I, I don't wanna say we don't want a dating format because once something might come through my door tomorrow and it's like got that perfect magic of all the things that, um, we are looking for, but it is, it is about having a sort of inherent understanding of. They're like, not necessarily the in jokes between creators or Channel 4.0, but just knowing sort of what is gonna resonate with that audience and giving space within the format to do that.

Saying that we do, we love competition. Um, we do love quiz, uh, we love sort of head to head. We've had conflict resolution shows. Um, we've had, we have had dating shows, um, in South Korea. We're baddest in the world. Um, we've done a lot of prank. We've tapped out, um. The, I guess the genre specifically is, is quite broad, but yeah, just making sure that it feels, I guess, mischievous, uh, authentic and never punched down is the type of format that I really love.

Yeah. Watch the channel, right? Watch the give, watch the channel. Yeah. 

I've actually, um, you know, if I get, I get a lot of pictures like a week. Sometimes it can be like, it can be hundreds a month. If, if people are sending sort of in batch and, you know. Some of those ideas are bang on and you're instantly excited about them, and you're like, I can't wait to pitch this into Sasha.

And then, and then, you know, we, we get the ball rolling on it. Hopefully if everyone's aligned, there's a lot that, there are some that fall a bit in between and you're like, okay, cool. If you tweak this slightly, um, we can maybe get there. And I, I love that back and forth with producers. I'm sort of development at heart, so it's like I love it.

Um. And then there are the ideas that I'm like, I just don't think you've even ever clicked on the YouTube channel, and that can be 

frustrating. Yeah. Well, I wanted to ask you about that as well, because I can imagine now there are a lot of traditional TV producers or producers are used to producing for linear channels.

Obviously a lot less commissioning happening in that environment now seeing digital as an opportunity. But is it very clear that the. Pitches that you're perhaps getting from them as opposed to more experienced digital first producers are, you know, there's, there's, there's a gulf. Is that, is that what you're talking about?

Is it is a bit of a, yeah. 

I don't think, I'd just say it's traditional. Um, production companies, 'cause I've made amazing shows with sort of the big, the big indies. Um, uh, I think it's more about the person pitching, really appreciating and understanding digital and not seeing us as a last resort. That's the thing that's really hard for me to give credible feedback on because I understand that it is difficult out there and like you want your ideas to be seen, but.

We are a very specific part of, you know, I would say the digital landscape, which is doing really well in lots of places. Um, so it's not really, I don't think it's really my job to turn a sort of linear focused idea into what could be digital. Like I need that to come from you. 'cause then I can enter into this trusting that you understand the content.

'cause at the end of the day, I'm not in the office making the content. It's, it's, it's down to you guys. So, um. It's not so much just traditional companies. 'cause like I said, like lots of those have adapted and have amazing people on their team that are passionate about that. But I think it's more like, why do you want to be pitching to us?

And I. What is it about your idea that matches what I'm looking for? Um, 'cause we're not as broad as channel four. We're not as broad as ITVI don't really see my competitors as BB C3 or ITV. I see them as the other creators and if they win, I win. And actually, brands as well, like it's, it's the people operating the YouTube space that their, those ideas might be most similar to what I'm looking for over the quiz show that you once pitched to.

Ex commissioner and, 'cause you've made a really great show for linear, I really respect that. But it doesn't necessarily mean it's gonna be. Easily translatable for YouTube. 

Yeah. So they should be looking at other creators and Foot Asylum and what Jeti Sports is doing. And Side Men and Data Squad, as you said.

Absolutely. As opposed to, you know, what's necessary happening in digital versions of linear. Yeah. 

And we've had creators become execs on our shows before. Um, and that's like elevated in a, in a whole new way. Like we had, um, a, a creator sort of come into exec with a, with a production company and it just.

Took it to a, a whole new height and it was like, okay, amazing. Actually, that's really exciting to me that, um, we can have, I guess, creators that are offscreen talent within our content as well. Um, so yeah, I, I guess if you are a more traditional production company, you can definitely pitch to us, but probably make sure there's someone on your team that is digital native or sort of at least like.

Obsessed with YouTube. 

Yeah. It's got that understanding. Yeah. So channel four as a brand has been, you know, known for risk really over the years, and, you know, pushing ideas that, that, uh, might not work on other traditional channels. Do you still have that DNA do you think, when it comes to digital and, and your YouTube content?

Yeah, I think so. I mean, like. I think tapped out. Our prank show that was made by Wool of Entertainment, um, is a good example of being able to push boundaries a bit with the right people, telling the right stories. Um, I think on the whole, our content is pretty risky just in terms of, uh, working with newness all the time.

Uh, the topics being, I guess like, yeah, mischief is such a, a part of, of the, the content strategy. Um. I think we've tapped out, we've, we've explored prank in arenas that maybe traditionally other broadcasters wouldn't, and just understood that actually it's really funny to prank people in the middle of CRO and High Street if the people that are doing the pranking have an affiliation to CRO and High Street.

'cause there's more stakes and, and it, for them, it's like they can speak to that. This is gonna be funny because X, Y, and Z. Um, I think we've got a luxury of, you know. I guess a creator on our channel can push it a bit further because they might be making a joke about their own sort of experiences over.

Projecting onto someone else and, and that feeling mean, um, so our content, I would say is really funny and risky, but still is safe and has a real duty of care responsibility to the people that are in it. 

So let's talk about tariffs then. 'cause that's obviously what, um, a lot of producers really interested in is, you know.

What sort of figures are we talking about for making, making digital first shows? C Can you explain your, your tariffs a little bit? Give us some clarity on that. 

Yeah. It's not super rigid, but um, I guess our content ranges from two camera set up with a table. I mean even like sort of this is, would be quite an advanced set set up for some of those, I guess.

But like you're looking at like one to three KA minute, depending on the scale of show, um, and talent, of course. Uh, but within that, we've commissioned shows from sort of the eight minute mark all the way up to the 30 minute mark. We also commission in quite high volume. So a standard commission would be about five to six episodes in the first run.

And I'd see that as a pilot. Um, well not a pilot, but like a kind of a good. Way of me measuring how well a series is gonna do. But we've gone on to commission sort of like 10 ups in a row to, to sort of like six po six, um, six series sort of, of, of one show. Um, we also do often do some like shoulder content to bolster budgets a little bit.

So if we were to commission a six part series and you've got loads of talent who are sort of milling about and. You know, we paid them for a day rate, so we might as well do more with them. Uh, there's the opportunity to pitch in for our, our strand called Creator Clash, which is, uh, a lot sort of like lower production value, um, and not lower production.

Oh, I guess like just a more simple setup and that allows producers to get, I can get more episodes and they can get more budget, but it's not sort of. Putting too much strain on the production company. 

And finally, how about, um, when it comes to format rights, for example, so if I've got a format, got a great, you know, maybe a, a unique quiz show format, I come and pitch it to you.

How does that work in the digital world? You know, can I, if that's a success, can I then take that and, uh, remake it internationally with an international distributor? How does, how does that work? 

So all of our, um, sort of format and deal terms are on our website. So they're definitely not a secret. Um. For us, like producers still retain the ip, it's just that we have a longer exclusivity period within them.

There have been lots of times when we've um, we've encouraged producers who, who have made stuff for us to, to sell their, their format. So I think object and, um, cow shed have done that. Before, uh, it's something that we're always open to discussing, um, but just due to the nature of YouTube, we need just that sort of exclusivity window because we are putting it on YouTube worldwide in perpetuity.

So, um, yeah, it's, it's always something we're open to discussing and like I said, like it's on the website deal terms are available for anyone that wants them. 

So where would you go to actually find this information out? 

So it is on our website, so it's channel four.com/four producers. For the number, 

and now it's time for Story of the Week where my guests get to nominate the content industry story that's caught their eye in the past seven days.

What's your story of the week, Evie? 

So I don't mean to make, it's all about channel four, but, uh, the story that I'd like to discuss is Ian Katz, um, saying that. He's now going to encourage people to credit their development teams, uh, within content. 

Yeah, I saw that. And, um, I mean, I, I guess where do, do they not currently get credited or was, was a bit unsure about, you know, how that, 'cause obviously there's the end credits.

Let's talk about traditional TV for, from, so they don't typically get credited within normal end credits. 

No, you don't. I, I sort of started my career in development and, um, had a few execs that were amazing and would sort of. Put us in the credits if, if it had been a particular sort of strong effort by one person or a group of people.

But generally development teams don't get the credit. And I think that's, it's can be a shame because those teams will have worked really hard to get an idea over the line and actually done quite a lot of the pre-production, often to prove ideas. Credible. They're 

often freelancers as well, right? They're often, 

well, yeah.

Freelancers I think. Quite a lot of people in development are in-house or on like a longer term freelance contract, but it can still be really frustrating and it everyone wants to be recognized. Everyone wants wins. Um. And I think, yeah, I think that the move to including them will mean a lot to a lot of people who, who work really hard at that stage of things to get ideas moving.

Yeah. Well, how does that work in digital though? Because there's no end credits in digital, the others, 

interestingly. Yeah. So I guess that's the sort of conflict is that in digital, you are always looking for retention and to get people watching right till the end. And to get people, I guess, clicking onto your next video before they've even thought about it.

So most digital. Producers or, or platforms don't have any credits unless they put it into the copy of, um, the body of the video and whether or not your viewers are interested in that is something you always have to sort of weigh up. So I think it's something that a lot of people that have been putting content on YouTube for a long time haven't even really thought about.

I think it's just like, oh yeah, why would we do that? That's a really odd thing to do. We credit people in other ways, be that on our Instagram and we'll tag all of the crew or. Or in LinkedIn. Um, but it's, it's definitely not something that's part of the YouTube landscape at the moment. No. But maybe it could be.

Yeah. Well, um, I think anything that gives development producers a little more, bit more recognition is a good thing. Right. 

Definitely. Definitely. 

All right. Okay. And, um, how about your hero of the week? 

So I know your hero of the weeks are normally quite a high profile person, but I am going to choose, um, this content creator who is 14 years old on TikTok, who's really caught my eye this week, haven't worked with her before.

She's called, I think she's called little me, um, on TikTok, and I think she's 14 and she says she is in one of her videos. Um, but she's. Unbelievable. And she's so funny. She does these mini sketches about being at school and like your year six supply teacher or the rival school meet you at the football match or whatever, and.

I'm no longer a 14-year-old girl, but I am pissing myself watching it. Yeah. And I'm like, you are so talented and so raw. Her only props are some like sort of fake eyelashes and bad blusher to, to represent her teacher. And I'm just like, this is amazing. And she's already started collaborating with some of the bigger content creators out there.

Um. But yeah, like I, I dunno if she's quite ready to go on Channel 4.0 yet, but just I think as an example of someone being able to reach millions of people with just their, like we were saying before with just their phone and some very minimal props. Yeah. And like that is raw talent that is. Amazing that I get to see that on my phone when I'm scrolling.

Oh, right. Okay. And just called Little Matt. Did you say Little 

Matt? Yeah. Or like, good vibes only in her handle, but um, I'm, yeah, I'm sure we can get a, a link. Okay. 

Alright. Fantastic. Well, uh, want to watch. 

Definitely. 

And who or what, Evie, are you telling to get in the bin this week? 

Similar theme, but I am telling.

The industry that we should stop referring to creators as influencers. Ah. Or at least differentiating between them. Both are very credible ways of making money and in your profession, but for me, it's a real bug bear. When people refer to, I guess, the side man, or Max Foss or Nico, Nicole and Milana or Nella Rose as.

Just an influencer because that's not what they're doing. So that's my getting the bin. 

Absolutely. The term influencer getting in the bin or when it's referred to when we're referring to a creative Yeah, like 

the girlies who are doing their thing on Instagram and promoting the brands. Great. Like, think that's a, a great thing for them in the influencer bag.

But when we're talking about really sort of, uh, I guess craft, craft, people who know what they're doing, um, and are producing, directing, editing, writing, they are creators. Yeah. And we should really respect them for that. 

Yeah. Quite right. Evie, it's been brilliant speaking to you. Thank you so much for coming on TellyCast.

It's been, uh, I wanted for having to have you on the show for ages. Thanks so much. And, uh. Good luck with everything over it, all the, uh, parts of Channel four that you're working 

on. Thank you. Thanks so much. 

Well, that's about it for this week's show. We'll be back next week with another episode. TellyCast was produced by Spirit Studios and recorded in London.

Until next week, stay safe.