How to Work with Digital Commissioners and Succeed in Social Video | Live from TellyCast How to Make Money in Digital

Top digital commissioners from MTV, Channel 4, and A+E Networks reveal exactly what they’re looking for - and what they’re not - when commissioning social video content.

Recorded live at the TellyCast How to Make Money in Digital event, this expert panel explores How to Work with Digital Commissioners and What They Want. Featuring Amie Parker-Williams (MTV and Comedy Central), Sam Pearson (Hearst Networks), Evie Buckley (Channel 4.0), and Joe Churchill (Channel 4 Branded Entertainment), the session dives into what commissioners look for in social video content, the opportunities for production companies and talent, and how to pitch winning ideas for YouTube, TikTok, Instagram, and beyond.

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Transcript

Hi everyone. So yeah, welcome to this panel how to Work with Digital Commissioners and what they want. I will be asking the questions, but if you guys wanna ask questions too, then there is this thing called a Slido app and you scan the QR code and then some questions will appear here.

And I'll try and ask some of those too. We'll start with an easy question. So if you could all introduce yourself and talk a little bit about what your role is and maybe how you got into commissioning. 

Yep. So I am Amy. I'm director of commissioning for MTV and Comedy Central. And I guess it's my job to curate and create compelling, hopefully compelling original content and build fantastic experiences across all of our social platforms and how I got to be a commissioner.

I. I don't know. No, it's just naturally evolved. I started MTV nearly 10 years ago as a producer. I came on to take MTV news off linear and oversee the, the digital evolution. And as I said, my role's evolved over the years to, to start creating short and long form original content. Great. 

Hello everybody. My name's Sam Hearst Networks.

I'm the head of short form commissioning there. My role is a is a bit more multifaceted, so I I. I work within the programming team, commissioning anything that's like digital first programming in terms of kinda narrative, short form, mid form podcasts some long form stuff that is kind of digital first it's narrative as well.

But I also oversee. The digital commissioning. Digital production, sorry, in the creative team and the social media teams as well. How I got into commissioning, started out in production thinking that I was gonna be working in the as center of nowhere on wildlife documentaries, and then brands got into social media and then everything changed and I started working in social media and got to where I am now commissioning digital content on for broadcasters.

Great. 

Thank you. I'm Evie. I am a digital tool commissioner at Channel four and also the Channel 4.0 lead. Most of my day to day is making sure Channel 4.0 is running smoothly, commissioning content onto that, working with our small team to make sure it's distributed and marketed correctly and with the production companies to make the shows great.

And I got into commissioning. I was in development for most of my career. At quite a small indie set up, a digital department at that indie, started pitching to the Channel four branded entertainment team at that time, and now they sort of nicked me over about four years ago. 

Hi. Yeah, I'm Joe Churchill.

I'm also a digital commissioning editor at Channel four. I look, I look after all of our social branded entertainment. E and I joined probably almost exactly the same time four years ago. I guess I got into commissioning through a bit of a wiggly career. I started off in kind of traditional TV development and production, and then about.

Nearly 10 years ago launched a production company with some people in the advertising industry to kind of try and carve out a bit of a space in social branded content. And it was through that kind of joint skillset of, you know, the branded space, but also the broadcast space. That brought me back to channel four, first to pitch into the same department and then, and then to join as a commissioner.

Great. And look, digital means lots of different things to different people whether you are producing it or whether you're commissioning it. So if I start with you, Jay, do you wanna tell us what you are looking for content wise? 

Yeah, absolutely. I guess I quite lucky in a way working in branded entertainment because.

There's a huge variety of content that we commission. So brands tend to come to Channel four as a whole entity, rather than coming saying we really wanna do something in social. And depending on the brief, depending on the ask, that'll get triaged down to us. Where where we will kind of. Find the right idea that's been pitched to us by an indie or brief out based on, on that brief and, and get the right idea pitched to us on spec.

Or in some cases if it's really fast turnaround, we'll crack the idea ourselves and then bring in a production company to produce it if, if we get it over the line. But because they're coming to us as channel four, first and foremost. Some of those briefs will be kind of very much about youth culture and connecting with people who overindex on those social platforms.

But then some of them will be, you know we sponsor homes on four, on, on the linear channel. So we wanna do something that is content in the social space that is a bit more aligned to channel four homes and might be wanting to target a bit more of a heartland channel for audience. So I'd say that means that there's pretty much no genre that.

We do on linear that we wouldn't do a version of in social branded entertainment. And then there's also a lot of kind of social first genres that you probably wouldn't see on, on linear, but we would also do those kinds of things. So everything from like big creator kind of game shows to quizzes to.

Scripted comedy, travel logs, factual entertainment. We even did a scripted show a few years ago, so like a, a real, real kind of range of stuff. Which means that, you know, I would always say kind of pitches a real range of ideas. And yeah, like the, the best ideas for us that get pitched to us.

Are the ones that are Pivot Pivotable is, is the way I kind of talk about it, like versatile and adaptable because we get so many different briefs in the real kind of gold nuggets are the ideas with a really simple format that's gonna work on social, that feels channel four, but has the potential to be adapted to a food and drink brand, a car brand, a travel brand.

A cat litter brand actually in, in one instance. So yeah, the more kind of versatile the idea, the better for us. Great. Evie? 

So Channel 4.0 is purely youth audiences. Like when I say that it's 13 to 24 year olds, but we're looking at about like the 18 year olds taste point. Like you don't, if you're 13, you're not trying to watch content for 13 year olds.

We're watching up a little bit. It's very much comedy, entertainment with a creator focused. We want format. And those, again, kind of like Joe said, very simple to sort of get before you've even clicked. We wanna know where the humor's coming from, from just that title, just that thumbnail. Your audience is sort of blessed with a sea of content when they open YouTube and your content has to cut through.

And actually that's how we make a lot of our commissioning decisions. Does that cut through when I'm reading it in an email or a thumbnail comes through or a title comes through? And yeah, we, we are looking for more of the same. It has to feel Channel 4.0. We are a brand and ourself, we're very much part of Channel Four's values and the PSB broadcaster, but Channel 4.0 has its exact tone of voice and knows who its audience is and tries to speak to that really directly and authentically.

So yeah, that's what we're, what we're looking for in Channel 4.0. 

So as a broadcaster we have two main channels that we commissioned for Sky History and Crime Investigation. So we have. A focused view from a genre perspective in terms of what we're looking for. So true crime and history, although the history side of things is a little bit more kind of fact.

10. But for us, in, in, in the, in our space, we're looking. For on the digital first side of things, the formats that can sit on the edge of that those genres so that where the Venn diagrams kind of intersect. So how kind of comedy and entertainment and kind of more structured investigative documentary can kind of sit within those kind of more mainstream heartland.

True crime and history spaces for us, it's very much kinda like a test and learn opportunity on the, in the digital space when it comes to kind of format and thematic and tonal approach. And likewise, on the format side, it's very much like social first. What can we learn in the digital space that we can then translate up to our channels?

You know, that is a hard ask, not, it's not what I'm gonna do with everything, but it's more about, is there something like a little nugget that we're gonna find over the course of, let's just say, you know, three years. That then translates onto our linear screens, that would be pretty cool. And likewise, talent.

So, you know, we're looking for new and interesting communicators that might be coming through on TikTok or, or podcasts or any other platform. There might be expertise, say in the history space, new academics that have found a new way to kinda communicate historical subjects. Or they might be just really, you know, interesting not authorities, but or expertise, but just interested parties, people that have a.

Real passion and compelling kind of attitude and communication style that allows us to kind of talk about true crime and, and history in an, in an interesting way. And then the kind of final one for us is to be a little bit more kind, provocative tonally as well. And the interesting one, there is true crime as a brand we have.

Sensitivity and victim focus is our kind of core principles and we don't wanna unsettle that and do anything different in the digital space. But we can see some of the examples we've just seen just then. You can see how there is more opportunity in the digital space to be funny, to be lighthearted, to be community focused on the true crime space.

And it's really interesting opportunity for us to kind of test and learn. In the digital space with true crime, but maintaining kinda the sensitivity and the victim focused angle, that how can we kinda be much more kind of community focused and speak to people in a different, in a different way. 

Perfect.

And then for me, we are looking for content that tackles societal issues through an entertainment lens, and that speaks to a youth skewing audience. What are the conversations that aren't being discussed enough that are often rele relegated to private messages? Dms, WhatsApp, but deserve a bigger platform in the mainstream media, and that can be presented through a number of genres from factual, factual comedy.

I think factual and fact and is an area that I'm keen to to build on. And beyond that, I am also looking for formats that reimagine Paramount's iconic ip. We know that the value of fandom is increasing measurably, and in some ways we are set up for success 'cause we have these built-in audiences. Truly obsessed with Paramount's, tremendous IP heritage from Jordy Shaw, ex on the beach team, mom and so on.

And so looking for formats that. Unlock the full potential of these ips and find new and meaningful ways to connect with existing audiences, but bring in new ones too. And Darren, this is I guess, a great opportunity to share our project that we worked on last year together. Every Woman with Sophie Kasai, and it's our fertility docuseries, which is fronted by Jordy Shaw Star, Sophie Kasai.

She's known, I guess, as the party girl, life and Soul of the Party. But this series shows her in a more vulnerable way, in a more nuanced light, and. What this was great at doing was, you know, I've known Sophie for a number of years, worked with her across a number of digital projects and so I knew her desire to, to become a parent.

And she's been quite vocal over the last couple of years about her, her fertility journey and how it hasn't happened for her yet. And so, working with you, Darren and Dare picks, we followed her journey through actuality. We went to fertility appointments, we met with other women experiencing reproductive health conditions and or emotional trauma from that.

And what this did and did so well was not only fuel existing fandoms, those that are truly obsessed with Jordy Shore universe and wanting more, but might not have watched a documentary but did so because Sophie was fronting it. But it also brought in a new audience, ones that might not necessarily watch reality TV or even Jordy Shaw, but were deeply passionate about the subject matter, which was fertility.

And I think that's something that I'm keen to build on using brand talent at the helm of societal issues and exploring the unexplored. 

Thank you. And look, it's always nice as a producer when a commissioner says yes to your idea. And I think after a, a yes, the thing that I like as a producer is a very quick no.

And so I always think it's helpful for people to know what it is that you are not looking for. So who wants to take that one? 

I can go first. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm not looking for food game shows, studio based formats. I think really it's just in that societal area for me. 

We're, we're solely looking for unscripted comedy, entertainment formats, and I would also say that they have to be bespoke for YouTube.

We get a lot of sort of like dust off the hard drive. Take the ITV logo off, slap a 4.0 logo on and see if we notice. We notice. And it is not to say that for a great format can't be repurposed for a different tone of voice and a different brand, but you need to really be checking that that screams youth culture for us, and that is like directly authentically speaking to our audience.

So yeah, we, we are not sort of looking for docs or scripted or anything that doesn't fall into that unscripted comedy entertainment format bucket. 

Probably be too easy for me to say. Not anything but true crime and history. But like, I guess on, on, on, on my side, it's, it's, you know, we're looking for stuff that oh, we're not looking for stuff that is is too niche.

It has to kind of have a broad appeal. You know, we we're not looking for things that are, you know, really, you know niche kind of investigations or, or really specific subject areas that aren't gonna have that kind of, broad appeal or kind of like mass audience, mass audience appeal and, and likewise you know, alongside that accessibility, we're looking for communicators within there.

They might be contributors or, or talent. They've gotta be real not necessarily an authority, but they've got to have that enthusiasm they've got, you know, it's got to be understood. We don't really want a name with a big platform and a big profile. Someone that's just basically kinda looking to kinda get it on TV or, or, or, or, or on a social media platform, which work, work with us.

We're really looking for somebody that has a, a really vested interest in the stuff that they're talking about. 

Right. 

I mean, everyone knows Channel four was born risky. Most brands were not born risky. So you know, anything that's too kind of hard hitting. We do like to try and take risks and push the envelope as much as we can in branded, but for, for kind of brands, risky, you kind of need to dial it down probably about.

25%. So yeah, any, anything that's kind of hard hitting docs I would steer away from. I would also say anything that is too kind of time sensitive. If it's like access to a thing is happening now, we've gotta get this away now or never is, is probably not great for us because, you know, we, it takes a while.

A lot of the time it's a slow burn to match the right brief to the right idea. So more kind of evergreen formats that, that we can pick up, we can adapt and we can do whenever we get the right brand on board. 

It's worth saying as well, actually in the wider channel for digital commissioning team, we do have a factual team that does look for those hard hitting docs, so it's worth going on channel.

Sorry. To plug Channel Four's briefing page, and you'll see information about the factual digital commissioning priorities, which are that sort of really risky, really hard hitting digital docs as well. 

Great. Thank you. I guess one of the other things that I'm conscious of as a. Producer is like, you're trying to make money.

Right? And that's partly what this panel is about. We've got a question that's, that's come in which says that digital commissions have very low budgets compared to broadcast. And also were huge, if not all, as slice of the pie when it comes to copyright. I guess it would be helpful to answer that question in the context of the difference or the distinction between a broadcast and a digital commission and a, and a brief.

Yeah, I, I can take that one. I'll take it first at least I think. The level of flexibility when it comes to length is one of the key D differences between linear and digital. I think with our linear programming, we're working towards time slots on digital. I guess length no longer is a barrier, and I also think the term premium means something different on a digital brief.

I guess historically, I've chased super slick, high-end broadcast level productions, and while we still do uphold the traditional media quality, and it still has its place on digital sometimes. That's not necessarily the right approach as it's the wrong visual language for online platforms and viewers in particular Gen Z, they value and adore, unfiltered, rough, and ready, you know, humanized content over perf, over perfect productions.

And I think this rejection of. Perfection really stems from Gen Z coming of age at a time where the world was anything but perfect. And there's this sense of realism that's instilled in them. And so we are leaning into that too by embracing the imperfections, humanizing art content, creating social first.

Formats that bring viewers closer to the action. And I think when you see the term premium on a digital brief, it's likely referring to the values of access, connection, cultural relevancy as opposed to polished aesthetics. So I think that's the difference I can see 

on the, on the, I mean, because there are, there aren't.

The differences are, are kind of specific, but also slightly few and far between. 'cause I think on the, on the long form briefs or at least the ones that kind of go to linear producers are still trying to get, you know, the, the, you know, you're still trying to kinda make a profit on your, on your, on your on your investment.

And also understand kind of what the, you know, the, the benefits are downstream, either from the. You know, from syndication or from a rights perspective afterwards or perhaps multiple series. I think that's obviously still the case on the, on the digital side of things. 'cause both parties on a broadcast perspective and a production perspective are hoping for success that then meet leads to, you know, multier multi episodes.

Ideally, you know, let's say, let's face it one a week, kind of like in perpetuity series. And I think where perhaps this kind of slight difference is, is about understanding how you can kind of maximize. The opportunity for both parties kind of going forward into the future. So it might be a case of kind of understanding from a broadcast perspective how we can make sure that we're getting what we need out of our investment, which, let's face it, on the, on the, on the whole isn't gonna make us money.

Very unlikely to make us profit. And but on your side, making sure that you are kind of putting in your, when you are making your investment that you're gonna. Hopefully, or in your, in your position, hopefully get you know, the opportunities in the future either to kinda go out and sell it worldwide perhaps, or sell future series if, if the IP investment isn't there.

I think it's very much kinda like a bit of a, kinda a shared risk, shared reward opportunity where on both sides it's about kind of maybe looking to create IP on both sides that can hopefully kinda live on, it's in my view, kinda a slight difference to a linear brief, to a digital brief where we're kind of essentially kind of both looking for that.

Long running IP series, perhaps a little bit close to maybe what Evie's doing, which is kinda more, maybe not necessarily from a format perspective, well may actually from a format, but the relationships with the, with the creators where you've got that long running series or the long running investment where you can then kind of reap the rewards or you can kind of syndicate it further, or you, the producers get that relationship further down the line.

Unfortunately, we don't. We don't get to do that as often because we're such, say, niche broadcaster with limited budgets, but that's certainly what we're aiming for and the aim is for both parties to benefit from it. 

Yeah, I guess that's right. Like for me, the dream is that we'll commission something that is sort of like six episodes of sort of a pilot run first series, but then we've gone on to commission 20 episodes of that same series and the tariffs.

Compared to broadcast, like sort of Amy said they're not as high, but within the digital space they're very sort of, I think, favorable and sort of quite competitive with other digital publishers. It's just how you look at things in sort of two different worlds, I suppose. And our rights position, ideal terms, are on our website.

They're very open. We send them as soon as an indie will pitch to us. If we don't, please ask for them. But you do own the ip. It's just that we have a sort of longer exclusivity window because YouTube, if you're putting it on someone else's YouTube the next week, we are then sort of competing with ourselves for views.

And we've sort of initially invested in that, that program and putting a lot of sort of energy and creativity and knowledge on our side to try and make that shine for our platform. So yeah, although it's not. The sort of same as linear in the sort of digital landscape. It's, it's something that we're always looking at and always evolving and our sort of business affairs team are trying to keep alive to and, and see the pressure points of those indies as well.

Great. Thank you. I think, you know, from my perspective, you know, I, I'm making digital content and I'm making traditional content and I guess whenever I'm making something I try and have some sort of meaningful motivation behind it. So I guess. As a producer, I'm making digital content because it's a, a space to experiment, it's an opportunity to maybe build a new relationship with the broadcaster and maybe help develop talent.

So I just wondered from your perspectives what your sort of motivations are when you are commissioning ideas, but also commissioning companies and people. Sorry, you gone? 

Well I think like, I'm so proud of the sort of community we've built on 4.0 and like we've worked with over 150 new creators that haven't worked with Channel Four at least before over two years, and I'm so proud of that.

There are a lot of people that, you know, traditionally been overlooked by media sort of. Traditional outlets, but we've given that space where they can be their authentic selves. And by doing that and achieving that, we've also worked with offscreen talent and made sure that we're working with editorial voices in senior positions that authentically, truly reflect the voices of the creator.

So things aren't being diluted. We are not overexplaining what certain words mean. We're not changing that talent's, voices. And as a result, the feedback we are getting both from our comments, which I have read. Every single comment on every single piece of content, I reckon, which must be quite sad, but that's like millions and millions and millions of comments and, and hearing our sort of direct feedback from our audiences and feeling really seen and heard.

Sort of the most rewarding part of the job. And also working with those offscreen talent who haven't always sort of been necessarily taken seriously by mainstream media before, but actually, okay, cool. We're gonna listen to you and we're gonna trust that your voice is exactly what our audience want, and working with them to find that editorial balance that works with our brand and also keeps to what their sort of production company holds most true to themselves.

I think, I mean, the vast majority of people here will be kind of, you know, in the, in their heads kind of thinking like storytelling is one of the main kind of motivations, reasons why we're doing it. And I think deep down, selfishly, if you look in woods, it's probably egotistical as well in terms of kind of, you know, getting out there, getting your name out there, you know, putting, you know, being able to kinda create something that other people watch.

But I think the, kinda the main one for me is really about like the value of the stuff that we produce. And it being valuable to a, to an audience. And I think I am, as a viewer, a bit close to our history brand. Because that's the kind of stuff that I consume and I don't consume very much true crime.

But I think the value element is a real interesting challenge for me when it comes to the true crime because it can be easy to kind of dismiss true crime as a, as something perhaps that is slightly kind of salacious and is a little bit of a bit opportunistic in some instances. What it does do is it really does speak to it when it's done.

Well give, it's really valuable from an audience perspective because it allows you know, contributors and stories to be heard that are really important. It gets, you know, it gets stories out there that are sometimes marginalized or misrepresented or misunderstood. Like I'm thinking, like recent commission for us on Unbreakable, which, you know, incredibly powerful, really hard and challenging to listen to.

That's, you know, those stories are really worth your time. Really valuable to listen to. Another one that we've got coming up called I Made a Murderer, which kind of has kind of like echoes of adolescence and some of the themes in there. And for me, those are, that's the reason why True Crime exists as a genre.

And that's the reason why it needs to kind of continue existing. Because it gives it gives an opportunity to kinda tell those stories. And and for me, that's the value element in terms of why we, why we create the content that we do and why the entertainment side of the, our industry is, is, is so important.

Yeah, I would say branded is a great space for us to be working with new talent as well. And what we often do is try and build a bit of an ecosystem of kind of recognizable Channel four faces, because that's kind of what brands expect when they come to Channel four. But paired with you know, social talent that, that we really wanna work with or that we've worked with on 4.0.

You know, that talent. Doesn't need to work with us. Like they, you know, they're, they've got their own audiences. They, they're not, this isn't a training slope for coming to broadcast. But having, you know, being able to work with 'em in the social space does then you know, put them on the radar of commissioners and then, you know, quite a lot of the time they end up doing stuff on, on linear as well.

So, and, and you know, the. The benefit of that is obviously we are doing it with a brand's money, you know, it's incremental on top of the commissioning budget that we have originally. So, so there's kind of no hard limit on how much we can experiment in that, in that space. 

Yep. Similar to the other three I've just said, but yeah, for me, I'm just incredibly passionate about.

You know, giving new talent in particular the, the platform to showcase their brilliance. And that's largely for underrepresented groups. We're very passionate about making change, and I think if we can. You know, add to change in the industry and seeing it offscreen as well as on, that's something that I think that's a job well done.

And, you know, we wanna be able to reflect the hardships and the struggles of our youth skewing audience on screen. And I think what we do very well is pair that with celebration, joy, and individuality. 

Thank you. We've got another question here, which is directed to Joe, but I think can be, can be widened out.

So. It asks about whether companies can bring an idea with a brand or company already on board. And then the second part of the question is, is that the only way that a smaller company can get a shot? So I guess it would be helpful just to hear any anyone's perspective on working with brands and what your feelings are about working with brands, but also about whether the size of a company is determining.

Opportunities before Joe jumps in. I just wanna ask that very quickly. 

Yes and no. Like, yes, brand first. We can do that. And no, it doesn't limit us for working with small companies. 

Yeah. Well, he said yeah, yeah. AB absolutely we're very open to production companies coming to us with brands that they've already got a relationship with.

I, I would. Probably caution people to try where you can to talk to us early doors because we will likely try and steer the development of the idea. And we have been burnt a few times where. In doing that, the brand goes, oh, that's not what we bought into. But we have to make sure that it's gonna work for our platforms as well.

So yeah, come to us early doors with the idea and the relationship. We can take it from there. And yeah, absolutely, we'll work with small indies. We, we, we work with big legacy indies, small kind of two man band, very kind of new startup indies and everything in between. And yeah, like, there's no, there's no kind of limits on who we work with.

Our, our, you know, our door is very much open. 

Anyone else wanna comment in on that? Okay, cool. Okay, so in terms of like a digital producer, like what are the characteristics you look for?

I guess for me it's like I. We work with, obviously we get pitched to from your sort of like mega super indies down to your sort of like properly raw digital companies who haven't really worked with corporate brands before. And what I kind of look for is like obviously collaboration. Like we're essentially all going into this together.

We might be working together for like three to six months, maybe longer. So it's really important to have a trusting relationship and that works both ways. We're all trying to make the best content. I'm not trying to give feedback to make something worse. Like that would be really silly of me. So it's like if we can have that collaborative approach where we're sort of sharing knowledge and, and having healthy back and forth and push and pull on what works and what doesn't, that's so important to us.

I. An inherent understanding of YouTube. I'm sure there's lots of people here today who, who maybe are trying to get into, to digital and YouTube and might not have like your, your, your core YouTube native team set up yet. But having those people that have grown up watching YouTube and are obsessed with it and it's their main source of entertainment on your team is so important in a, to sort of like achieve what we need for, for our platforms.

And then I, I'd say also just like. Coming to us if something's going a little bit wrong or if you need sort of to discuss budgets or schedules or things haven't quite gone to plan like we are trying to be there to support you as much as possible. While sort of making sure that the content is both.

Editorially. Perfect. Perfect. Duty of care safe. And also I guess like the, the talent, both on and off screen are really feeling comfortable and happy. And don't be a dick. Like, I think that's what my boss told me when I first started being a commissioner. That goes for me and for the producers.

It's like we can all be kind to each other and have a laugh and hopefully have a good sort of time making something. 'cause it is intense. It's intense. Making these big series for 

us. Yeah, I agree with Evie when you said on the collaboration front, I think that's super key. I think the better relationship you have with the producers, the indies, I think the better the content will be.

They understand what your audience are 'cause they're listening, but we're also hearing their ideas that we weren't thinking about. And I think it's just being agile, being deeply audience centric and being platform fluent. And by that I mean understanding that all of these platforms. They speak a different language, they operate differently, and they have different audience behaviors that don't necessarily shift across platform.

So I think it's key to understanding that and presenting that early on how, how you think it's gonna fly on YouTube, it's gonna dance on TikTok, it's gonna sing on Instagram. I think that's key to working with digital producers and seeing if this format is gonna be successful. 

Evie and Amy have really nailed it for me.

'cause I think that's exactly it from a production perspective. We're looking for people that really like live and breathe the, the platforms and think about it in a, in a very different way. To say that we would do from a long form traditional perspective. And for me, like I'm not gonna repeat everything that vie and Amy said, but for me it's like.

The, the, the edit language, like the narrative language. Like what's the hook of the, of the, each episode. Even think, like, I love it when a, when a, when a producer kind of comes with an, an idea that's literally just like the title or even like a thumbnail first. That for me kind of like speaks to kinda platform first and what creators are doing and it kind of like, then, you know, that's not a contract.

I mean, don't have to like go, gonna achieve that. But what it gives us is an opportunity to kind of think about how we then go into the edit. Thinking something might gonna surprise us going into the production. Something might surprise us, but at least we're aiming for that hook. Like what is it that's gonna grab people's attention?

And then it's very much about the edit, thinking about like retention and all that kind of stuff. And then one of the other things that we, we, you know, we talked about literally in the green room before this was about making sure that you guys like, lean on like junior members of staff, people that live and breathe and talk the language.

I'm looking at myself in terms of limitation here, because I don't have the dictionary either. And I think it's about making sure that you kind of like really lean into your teams and think about like, you know, the language that they talk in, the emojis they use, the, the graphics and, and, and that you would expect to see on screen the, the, the edit language and the narrative structure.

Like, that's so useful and important. And what you gotta do is make sure that you don't think to, like, you know, you know, look outside of your blinkers and make sure that you kind of don't have any blind spots. 

Yeah, I, I'd agree with all of that. I, and the only thing I'd add is that I think the best kind of digital savvy Indies, when they come with an idea, it's not just an idea for a show.

It's a big creative idea that could be unpacked and distributed in lots of different ways across all the different platforms. And so the people who come up, you know, and they go, this is the YouTube. This is how it's gonna be, you know, on TikTok, these are the Instagram, here's the stories we could do.

Like pitching beyond the brief that you've been given and coming up with loads of innovative ways that we can lean into the platforms is always gonna be the thing that, that really makes you stand out. 

Mm-hmm. 

And what 

would you say is the size of the prize? 'cause I guess in, you know, traditional broadcast, you talk about like hours, slots, you know, what is, what, what sort of prize are we talking about for all of you guys in terms of maybe it's a, a volume of series or.

Just tell us a little bit more about that. 

On 4.0, we release about two to three episodes a week. So you can sort of imagine how many EPS that is a year. We are looking at like one K to three K per minute, but our series lengths range from sort of like eight minutes up to 25 minutes. Or we've got a new series in production that's a bit longer than that.

So we. We try and work on that basis, but there is flex a little bit. We've commissioned, as I said before, like six episodes for the first series. But that can extend to like, I've commissioned sort of 12 episodes in a row before of like third, fourth, fifth series. And yeah, our talent fees are included within those tariffs.

We have caps on our talent fees. We know that a lot of these creators are getting like. Ridiculous money for like one Instagram post from a massive brand like Nike or Adidas. But for us, we we're we, we kind of help you to have that conversation with those creators that we are the end destination entertainment's the end destination for, for originals.

We're not trying to sell anything off the back of you being on our shows. And. That sort of helps with those sort of talent negotiations, but we have those really close relationships with them anyway there is a bit of a tie in with what Joe does in that if there's a sort of brand attached to one of our original formats, we try and give sort of like an uplift or in theory.

But yeah, Joe, I guess. 

Yeah. So, so branded, it's, it's massively variable. So we do everything from kind of short campaigns. Which are kind of 62nd episodes, and they'd be around, around about a kind of 10 k an episode budget. But then from there it really scales up. And, and you know, this guy's kind of the limit, like we've done you know, six part kind of YouTube series that also lived on streaming that we also had a six part linear a FP series out of.

And that would be much closer to a kind of traditional linear budget. So it, you know, it, it. Again, that's a really good reason to make your ideas versatile, but also scalable because, you know, having an idea we can make for, you know, a relatively small budget, but that we could scale it up with bigger names, you know, more ambitious locations, biggest stunts, whatever it is that's gonna give us the best opportunity to, to get stuff away.

Okay. 

I'm being told to wrap up, so I'll ask one last question. Yeah. Who for each of you is the next big content creator that you would like to have on your platform before your rivals? I. I've been looking forward to this one. 

We, we were speaking about this, we were like, yeah, we'll share, but we wouldn't share it on the call would be so no one said it until So you go first.

Go for 

it. Oh, well, I mean, this kind of feels like a little bit like football manager at a, like a summer transfer window press conference. It's like a little bit like, you know, the opposite, but come get me plea. So I feel slightly awkward about doing this, but like, well, I'll start off by kind of like by naming, this is a little bit backwards, but I'm gonna start off by naming like we've got a, a content creator that we're working with right now.

Built a relationship over a long time called Katie Kennedy with a series called History Crush. And I'm really excited about that one because it's been a long investment in terms of time and relationship. But she's fantastic. I'm not gonna do her justice. She's got a real fresh new, interesting angle of like, history.

She's called the history gossip on, on, on TikTok and Instagram. Really excited about that one. I'm glad we kind of like we've nailed that one down. But ones that I kind of think I'll be our interesting for us. And I haven't, you know, we've not, had not had any conversations around these people, like, not within, internally and with any of the producers.

So, and I'm kind of expecting maybe kinda a flurry of people kinda coming at me or even them kind of saying, I'm gonna make, I've got no interest in history or true crime. But I, I think there's a real opportunity for us in food from a history perspective. And will Hughes, is called what Willie Cook and Imran what the chef on TikTok both got really interesting kind of communication styles.

Both really funny. They do insight in a really interesting way about what they are cooking. If one of them just so happens to be like an authority on ancient Egypt and, and, and pyramids, then that, you know, that's like perfect and you know, music to my ears and then, you know, there's something in that for us.

Yep. I think I'm not being a cop out, we have already worked with this person, but I think she's gonna be an absolute superstar. And I think Kyra Gray, I think she's done some bits for you on Channel four, but I can see her, we got to work with her at the early stages of her career and I think she's gonna fly so I can, I would love to work with her again, basically.

And big man, big money. Scientist who is really making science cool for both young and old age brackets. And someone again, that I would love to, to work with. I can't 

believe no one's picked him up yet. 

I know we are. 

Well, so you're getting, you're gonna get the briefs? 

Yes, yes. We've done something with him.

Yeah. We, 

we just had just, I was living a branded show. 

Yeah. I would absolutely love that. I mean, I mentioned that we are looking for. You know, societal issues in terms of content, but anything that kind of fuses, fuses, two genres together, you know, science, how do you make science work on MTV? That's something that I'm really interested in.

I won't mention the big creators 'cause we work with a lot of them. There are a few that I'd still love to get, but there's a collective of boys called the Banter Boys. And they're all sort of between 18 and 22. They all kind of went to uni together. There's a particular creator within them called.

Paps and he just won our, we did a creator fund a live pitch session and he smashed it. He's so funny. He's does these sketch com comedies of little tiktoks and they blow up completely because people feel really seen whether or not you're a 22-year-old boy or, you know, a 50-year-old man. Like they are so funny in the sort of relatability and authenticity and tone and humor.

So of those boys, I think perhaps is the one we're trying to look to, to get next on the channel. But I'd, I'd check them out. They're the next boater squad. 

One of my favorites is a local local to me Bristol TikTok called AR four, who just does like outrageous pranks. And he's hilarious.

You should check him out. The other person that is. Like, just blow me away at the moment is Gary Stevenson who does Gary's economics, who's just like on this meteoric rise, just taking down every kind of politician and economist in the country it seems. He's like an inequality campaigner and he's amazing.

If you've not already seen him, which I'm sure most people have check him out. 

Brilliant. 

Thank you 

everyone, 

all 

of your insights. I think we're up to time. Thank you.