How Hearst Networks UK Is Building a Scalable Social Video Strategy

Sam Pearson, Digital Commissioning Editor at Hearst Networks UK, joins Justin Crosby to reveal how the broadcaster is reshaping its digital-first strategy across platforms like YouTube, Facebook, TikTok and AVOD. From breakout social formats like History Crush and Unbreakable to monetising archive content and launching purposeful true crime programming, Hearst is evolving with the audience.

We go behind the scenes on the company’s commissioning strategy, platform experimentation, and what success looks like for digital-first originals. Sam also shares insights on creator partnerships, brand-funded video, and the role of test-and-learn in today’s content economy.

🎧 This episode is essential listening for anyone working in social video, digital commissioning, or the future of factual content.

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Transcript

Hi, I'm Justin Crosby. This week on TellyCast, we are going behind the scenes of Hearst Networks UK's digital first operation from original formats like History Crush, Unbreakable, and cut to the crime. To social first programming and branded content partnerships. Hearst Networks UK is building a sleigh of video programming that's smart, scalable, and platform native.

I'm joined by Sam Pearson, digital commissioning editor and lead content producer, Hearst Networks, emea. To discuss how the business has evolved, what's driving audience growth across platforms like YouTube and Facebook, and how they're tailoring content for both social and linear. We're gonna talk about branded partnerships as well, and what success really looks like in digital publishing today.

It's all coming up on this week's TellyCast.

Sam, how you doing? Not so bad. How you doing? Alright. I'm alright. Yeah. Welcome to to telecast and we've got a bit of an Yorkshire double header here, which I'm, that's right. I'm I'm delighted. Softened accents though. Yes. Yeah, they are softened Yeah. A little bit, aren't they? You know, we probably sound really broad to a lot of people, but Sure.

You know, but yes. A little bit softer than, than it is when we are up up in Leeds of Bradford. So so welcome to the show. Tell us about your role and, and and what you do at at Hearst Networks uk. 

Yeah, of course. So I've got kind of a multifaceted role really. I I head up the the first part is I head up the social media teams and the short form AVO production teams that's producing the marketing content that, you know, promotes our channels and, and, and shows.

And also our kind of like archive library driven. Content that we put push out on YouTube and Facebook that generates revenue as well as bringing eyeballs to our content into our channels. Alongside that, I also work with our kind of creative teams and our own kind of content production for promotional again, and also any kinda short form activity that we produce in house.

And then the more exciting part, part of it to a certain degree, and the one that's kinda more. Relevant today is the commissioning side where I head up digital first commissioning for Hearst Networks. And that is kind of anything from short form, mid form podcast, anything that's kind of got a digital first and social first 

grammar to it.

Fantastic. Well, you're in the right place and this is something, you know, I'm really passionate about, so I'm, I'm. Delighted that we've got you into to have a chat about it. So first of all, Hurst Network was, there was a corporate change in name wasn't there about a year or so ago from a and e. Just can you just explain that a little bit, just so people understand the relationship when it comes to a and e and Hurst and what.

You know what that name change was all about. 

Yeah, of course. Yeah. I mean, ultimately cosmetic change really more than anything. So the, you know, the business hasn't really changed and we're still very much kind of driven by the same purpose in terms of kinda sharing stories that matter, same channel brands.

But what we've done is changed the name from any networks, UK and MEF for our wider business to Hearst Networks uk, Hearst Networks, Emir really to kind of match our one half of our. Parent parent shareholder, which is Hearst, alongside the other parent, which is Sky really to kinda make it a little bit more kind of cohesive and perhaps make it a little bit more more sense to consumers and to the people and partners that we work with.

Yeah. 

And, and so tell us about, you talk about channel brands. Tell us about reminders about the channel brands that, that you are overseeing at at Hearst. 

Yeah, of course. I mean, so we, so we license channel brands from our, our kind of cousins across the pond a, a network. So we, we we, we distribute content across sky History, which is otherwise known as the History Channel to people from, you know, you know, thinking like, you know, generations previous, but also people outside of the UK where it's known.

It's known as Sky History. We also have current investigation and, and Blaze in the UK alongside a whole host of Fast channels as well. And we also have a, alongside our parent brands play channels, S four properties. Both history play and crime investigation play. So we're, we're gonna focus more on digital first.

Obviously that's, you know, that's, that's really your expertise and responsibility within the business. So give us a sense of how long Hearst Networks UK has sort of been approaching the digital first play, if you like, because you talked about, you know. You've obviously got an amazing catalog and that's something that can be monetized, you know relatively in a relatively straightforward way, but also original as well.

Can you give us a sense of how long you've been playing in, in the social video space? 

It already kind of happened or started to happen, and the thinking behind it kinda came around. Kind of beginning of the pandemic, so like 2020 really kind of, and, and perhaps kind of, you know, this, the foundation started a little bit before that, but really it kind of happened when we were all on Teams and Zoom at the beginning of the, of the pandemic.

And we were kinda looking at how we can kind of make sure we're finding as much value out of the, of our channel brands. Following the eyeballs as they're kind of starting to move away from kind of traditional TV channels into other areas of, of the media landscape. And really it was very much about kind of like finding our feet, first and foremost in the short form space by using our library content on YouTube and Facebook, primarily testing the water and Snapchat obviously, kinda making sure that we.

Utilize our content across other non monetizable platforms to a certain extent, like Instagram or, or perhaps TikTok in the early days. Twitter, you know, X threads that, those kind of places where you can still generate communities and fandoms, but you know, you're not generating AVOD revenue. 

Yeah. 

So that's kind of like really where it started and we saw some really decent success, not just in terms of making some, you know, some, some, some revenue.

That essentially kind of covers the, the, the activity itself, but also finding new. Eyeballs for our content that ultimately ladder up into our kind of more traditional TV viewing experience, driving people to kind of watch our shows and, and, and channel brands and, and, and in, in, in, in places like the SVO space play or history play and conversation play.

Or on Sky and Virgin and those kind of, those kind of areas. Yeah. 

So was it a bit of a, a real sort of test and learn approach really? You talk about building communities, it was, which is super important and a lot of networks don't necessarily have that relationship other than, you know, basic, you know, social feeds.

But it seems to me that you, you guys have really kind of. Grasped the nettle on this and really sort of iterated and moved forward in a, you know, quite quietly, but now it's quite substantial, the amount of work that you're doing. 

Yeah, well, I mean, we st you know, I think the, I certainly wouldn't want to claim that we were kind of like, you know, ahead of the game.

Certainly there was a whole lot of other broadcasters doing exactly the same thing and thinking exactly the same thing the same way as us. You know, we did some stuff that was, was, was, was slightly different and, and made, you know, mistakes as everyone, as everyone has done and, and learned from them. But for us it was very much about kind of getting on that front foot and making sure that we're understanding.

Kind of how our audiences kind of consume the content, and that then ultimately when you talk about kind of test and learn, then led to the kinda the more commissioning style stuff. And so as a project, we've, we've we've set up the, our, what was kind of confirmed as our digital originals, but our kind of digital first kind programming you know, short form, mid form or podcast content.

We have produced short form series and podcast series. Before this, but ultimately it wasn't done with a kinda concerted effort. And really that was in the last kind of three years, two and a half, three years. And for us it's really about test and learn in that space. Producing new series, new formats working with new talent, really kind of understanding kind of themes and topics and tone that our audience want to kind of consume, but using.

The our social platforms or the digital first landscape or the narrative that kind of comes with grammar, that comes with digital first to like kind of play around with it and be a little bit of a sandbox. So it kind of gives us that a little bit more flexibility. What we were looking for obviously is to double down on something that works.

We want to kind of chase ultimately views and revenue further down the line. But the initial kind of motivation is very much about what we can learn and that kind of comes from. You know, talent that we can kind of test that we have an idea about, that we maybe want to kind of like, push through to a linear show that we, that's coming through from a, a pathway that perhaps is a little bit less traditional for a, kinda like a, you know, a traditional factual communicator.

Mm-hmm. 

Or, or it might be or it might be a new format that we perhaps wouldn't have had the appetite to maybe test in a traditional landscape first and foremost, but allows us that little bit of flexibility to try out first or partnerships and working with new content creators or or producers that we maybe not necessarily have the budget to kind of like to work with everybody because we'd love to, but we are.

Slightly, slightly smaller and niche in our, in our outset. So really it's very much about that. And then ultimately when it kind of goes to audience, then learning from how they kind of consume it. And that would be making sure that we're kind of paying as much attention as possible to thumbnails and titles really kind of.

Over analyzing to a certain degree, the retention curves and really kind of thinking about where those drop off points are or where those spikes are really gonna go into intense detail to kind of like understand what it is that our audience likes. And trying not to kinda get too obsessed with views and, and, and numbers.

That perhaps a little bit more kind of. Ego driven or vanity and really kinda making sure that we're kind of focusing on stuff that we can learn from and then iterate into the next project. 

Hmm. So, loads of interesting things there. So let, let's first of all talk about library. And obviously that was a place that you started Sure.

Was most of, I mean, obviously the different, you'll have different rights positions with different shows, for example. I, I, I can imagine that. But is you know, has that. Library exploitation on social channels, has that led you to thinking in different ways about the, the sort of linear commissions that you make?

So, you know, for example is there the possibility or has there been a possibility of some library shows doing really, really well on socials and, and, you know, giving you all the right sort of indicators to think, okay, we might need to reboot this, or we might need to, you know, create a new series of this for linear as well.

Is that, is that the way that you're thinking? 

Yes. And it's not my place to kinda talk about that. 'cause the long form responsibility kinda sits with, you know, my colleagues Dan and Di. Although I do kind of work on a couple of the long form commissions that have that kind of like digital first narrative.

Mm-hmm. And we do have a couple of examples of that where. The content that thet, the short form team and the AVO team, the social media team are put putting out, has really driven the conversation in terms of talent and formats that are perhaps, you know, years old that maybe would've just been left in a box or, or packed away in a, in a, in a, in a storage somewhere and then never really kind of considered it again.

But actually it's brought up those conversations again, I can't talk about any of them. 

Right. 

But it has, it genuinely has kind of like driven some of those conversations and hopefully fingers crossed. You know, the next time I'm on here I can kind of point those okay. Those, you know, those you know, those, those those 

shows out.

Interesting. Okay. So well let's, let's talk about the original content and the original commissions that you made. So there's, there's quite a few, right? There's quite a few projects that you Sure, that you've commissioned. History Crush is one of those. Tell us a little bit about that and how that came about and and, you know, ex explain that, that, that show a little bit to us.

Yeah, absolutely. So History Crush has been a a show, well actually kinda like the germ of an idea for probably the best part of a year and a half. We've worked with Katie Kennedy, who is otherwise known as the history gossip on TikTok and Instagram. We've been working with her and speaking to her for, for, for a number of years now.

We've been working with her on a couple of kind of. PR activities on some of our social content, and we've known how great a and fresh a communicator she is. You know, she's authentic. She speaks in a language that is very, very different to kinda like a traditional factual history kind of presenter, but also has the authority because she is a historian herself, to be able to kind of talk to the insight and the intelligence that kind of like, you know, the factual the factual content should, should, should deliver.

So we know there's something that, there was something in there for us. It was about get, you know, finding the right, the right partner and the right format. And, and, and in the right time we just kinda bring it all together. And so in the early development, we were talking about how to pull the, the, you know, the, the, the, the idea together.

And we were discussing, you know, Katie's strengths, innumerable strengths, and really kinda like the initial kind of development conversation was going along the lines of chicken shop dates, Emelia Boberg meets Philomena Kunk. But keep it factual, real. 

Yeah. 

And because Katie has that kind of style, that kind of like off the wall disarming, slightly uncomfortable kind of like style to which I think is really interesting and kind of grip your, can, grip your attention and, and really deliver something in a very new and interesting way.

And what the, kinda, the team, Tom and, and, and Dom who, who worked on it, who exec, who exec the idea what they kind of brought together and the rest of the team that worked on it. It's something really kind of like exciting for us because it's not something that Sky History would produce normally. We'd maybe kind of touch on something and we'd maybe kind of go halfway there, but for us it's completely new.

Like we would never talk in this kinda language before and we never put something like this together. So for us, it's a real test in terms of whether there's an audience appetite for that, and ultimately allows us to then work with Katie. Right at the inception of her career and kind of like hopefully develop her a little bit in terms of that, those kinda first initial steps into tv, because whether she stays in TV or whether she goes off and does bigger and brighter things elsewhere, she will do those bigger and brighter things because she has that kind of, that you know, that magic.

Stardust that, that quality, that will that will kind of define them, I'm sure, the rest of her career. So for me, you know, I'm really excited about it and it's just, it's just launched and, you know, the early signs are from a social perspective that it's landing really well, and we're seeing some really kind of great great insight from our from our VO channels as well.

And hopefully, fingers crossed, in a, in a few weeks, months time, when we're kind of digging into the data and looking at it, then we'll see some really interesting stuff and some strong lessons. 

And this is so give us a, a, a sense of the, the format then for the show. Is it, it's social first social video, essentially give us an idea of, you know, length and, and what the show is.

Of course, 

our kind of short form slash mid form content is, is roughly three to eight minutes. We have a cap at eight minutes that's based on our carries deals with our, with our channels. So it's, it's hard and fast rule for us, which is a, a challenge when it comes to distribution across YouTube and other platforms which want.

To kind of go a little bit longer if ideally, as long as they're kind of, you know, viewers, you retain your viewers. But for us it's a challenge that kind of like allows us to then be kind of more creative in terms of the content that we produce. So History Crush is a, an eight minute show. It's is social first, but it has that quality and delivery of a, you know, of a TV show, but obviously it just doesn't have as many kind of bells and whistles and cutaways and vts and everything else that would kind of, that would build up to make a commercial half hour. And it's, you know, it's produced in a way that allows us to kind of go vertical very easily, but done in a way that people would feel comfortable watching it in.

Horizontal and or, and or vertical. And that really kind of like comes down to kinda like the ethos of what we're trying to do as well is try to be slightly strategically unstrategic in the way that we distribute and try and kind of work out how we can kind of reach as many different people as possible across different platforms and, and, and, and work out how they want to kinda consume content and, and learn as much from that as possible.

And ultimately is the, the opportunity then. If the, if if all the data's right and looking at, you know, in, in six months time or however long that period is, that it could ladder up to be, become a, a full blown linear show. Is that sort of the idea, the ultimate aim? Or, or, I. I mean, how, how, how do you view that?

I would, I mean, my personal ambition, absolutely. For sure. I mean, obviously it's gonna be driven by success of the show. It's gonna be driven by budgets and schedules and you know, the right, all that kind of stuff. All the good stuff that kind of comes into kind of broadcast decisions, right? But from a selfish perspective, I wanna see it work.

I wanna work with Katie again on another series. Obviously, if it, if it does work, I'd love it. If that relationship then ladders up into a, either a linear commission of something similar to History Crush, or. Katie working on a different series, you know, as a host or contributor or something else. And for me, that's kinda like at the heart of everything that we're doing is, you know, we're talking about kinda like how we work with talent and develop talent and develop those relationships.

Whereas Kate, Katie's place within our brand, you know, at the same time I'm also kinda looking at her and thinking, you know, she, you know, there's no holds barred for her in terms of where she can kind of go and work with. In terms of other broadcasters. It'd be great to kind of see her go onto bigger and better things and work on massive projects elsewhere.

But at the same time, you know, it'd be nice if it, if that's with us and, and it'd be great to kind of see her on some linear shows for sure. History Crush in itself is a, is a, is a a interview series with, with Katie sat opposite, a historian contributor looking at, I. Characters from history in deciding based on their positive and negative crush points, whether they're a crush or a burn.

Really it's about kinda Katie dissecting with her own style. The, you know, whether Charles ii, Napoleon, Elizabeth, I Cleopatra are worthy of a, of a date or whether, you know, they're worth, you know, sticking in the bin in, in, in your phraseology. Yes. And and, and, and, and Katie's kinda set opposite, you know, an expert historian who's gonna help kind of guide her along what that decision making journey.

But at the same time, you know, it's, it's done with a nice kind of like wink and a, and a and a and a and a glance, and it's, it's it's very fresh, it's energetic and it's, it's is genuine and laugh out loud funny. 

Yeah. 

And obviously at the same time you're learning something, which is really interesting.

Yeah. And it's obviously centered around her personality as well. Absolutely. So there's a few other. Formats that you've also commissioned. Tell us about unbreakable. That's another one, isn't it, Sam? That that you commissioned 

for sure. Unbreakable is one that I hold quite dear to me because it's holds so much power as a series in itself.

A lot of the commissions that we produce for crime investigation, crime investigation, sky History being the two main channels that we produce for that, the short form, mid form content, the, the, the crime investigation side of things really allows us to kinda make sure that we're. We're being really purposeful with the content we produce and really making sure that we're, you know victim focused, sensitive in our approach.

Making sure that what, you know, what we're producing is, is valuable from a, from a viewer perspective. And that's at the heart of everything that we do as a brand. But on the, in the short form, mid form space, obviously. Where you're playing with tone and you're playing with themes and formats, you want to kind of push those edges a little bit, but obviously kind of hold to the heart of that, kind of, that true value about why true crime exists.

You know, it's not a entertainment, you know, format. It, it may be entertaining, and that's my maybe why people watch it. But from my perspective, the reason why True Crime exists is because it's giving, you know, voice to the voiceless. It's helping kind of tell those stories that maybe wouldn't be told otherwise.

It's really helping, you know, people kind of understand what people kind of go through in really kind of ho horrifying and traumatic circumstances. Mm-hmm. And for me, unbreakable really does do that. It, I. It's a series where we have Nina, the host Nina Nina lk. She is a victim, a survivor of domestic abuse and, and on a, on a killing survivor.

And she's now a, a, a wellness coach and a really great I. Vehicle for kind of understanding kind of how people can process trauma and kind of go on a journey, a positive journey where they can see kinda like a light at the end of the tunnel. And Nina host a series where she sits opposite a, a different person who's been through a different traumatic experience, something that ultimately has kind of gone to define them, but also a process that they've been on, a journey they've been through, where ultimately has led to some kind of, you know, positivity, germ of positivity and the.

Stories that they've got to tell are truly kind of, you know, disarming, horrifying, traumatic stories that really do need telling. We've got he aire who talks about female genital mutilation in a homeland in Somalia. We've got Ilia Ab Batista who talks about sex trafficking from the UK to, to her, her, well, her journey from the UK through Amsterdam, and some of the kind of like the anecdote anecdotes, some of the, the, the, the stories they tell are quite, quite horrifying. I was watching rough cuts on the train at seven in the morning trying to hold back tears, watching kind of those cuts and they're, you know, they're really quite hard to watch and that is a challenge in its own right, really when you're making those shows is how to kinda make it kind of, almost kind of palatable to a, to an, an audience member, but really kinda keep hold of the truth behind those conversations and those stories.

So Unbreakable has a real kind of purpose to it, and it's really driven by that purpose. And I was really kind of thankful that we were able to kinda get that that format across and produce in a way that was, I. At its core, really kind of so close to that initial kind of development idea about the rawness and the sensitivity and the energy that those stories needed to tell 'em, you know, truthfully and honestly and thoughtfully.

Well, it's really, I think it's really important, important when it comes to true crime on social media because. There's, you know, there's no rules, right? And there's a lot of content creators out there who are perhaps, you know, pursuing true crime stories in a way that in a very different way that, you know, a broadcaster essentially, of course, do as well.

And and I think that's really underlines the value, you know, of being able, producing responsible production when it comes to true crime and, and lots of other types of content, you know? And then that's, that's something obviously you pride yourself in. 

Absolutely. And that, you know, look, looking at the way that.

Podcasters talkers who focus on true crime, the way that they're communicated that to their audience is really interesting to us as a broadcaster, because the whole different way of kind of consuming these stories and translating these stories out there, it may not necessarily be a way in which we, based on our values, can see a way in which we kind of, we can take a slice of that kind of, that, that v viewing or, or, or, or listenership kind of pie.

Mm. 

And it's perhaps not the right thing for us to do, but part of kind of the project that we have is to really kind of test where those boundaries are for us as a broadcast, as a responsible broadcaster. Yeah. Where it comes to kind of testing the, you know, the tonal boundaries of thematic boundaries and the, and the, and the topical boundaries.

Yeah. You know, bearing in mind obviously all the compliance and legal and duty of care as well. Duty of care, exactly. All that stuff that, you know, not just because we have to a adhere by it, but because we should. And, you know, that's, that's, that's really kind of at the core of, of how we're looking at true crime and how we're really trying to make sure we kind of stay, it stays kind of core to everything that we do commission and, and at the core of everything that we do produce, but at the same time, trying to kinda work out where those boundaries are.

Sometimes we may end up making a mistake and maybe kinda pushing things too far, but that's. Part of the test and learn remit and understanding where we should sit and how we can kind of talk to a digital first audience that doesn't feel exactly the same as one of the documentaries that we produce that you'd see on a TV channel.

Yeah. So it's a real, kinda like wrestling for us in terms of how we, how we approach that. 

Yeah, I can imagine. I mean, I, I think one of, one of the things that occurred to me, we had a, a conversation a few months ago on, on telecast about true crime on socials and actually true, true crime on streamers as a whole.

And the, you know, the, there is that difference that certainly, you know contributors who, you know, that content is there and living. Out there all the time. It's been discovered all the time. It's not like a linear broadcast when it's sort of, it's there and then it's gone again. Yeah. So it's a very different sort of duty of care consideration.

That, and when, when that sort of content is, you know, is in the streaming world, whether it's be YouTube or whether it be, you know, a, a, a, you know, an svot. So it's a, it's a, it's a very different approach to it, isn't It 

Absolutely is. And you've gotta kind of consider it in a very different way because mm-hmm.

The kinda the guidance and the, and the regulations that kind of help steer and make sure that you kind of make the best possible ethical and decisions in terms of how you approach po productions and, and distribution and everything else. Ultimately, they're kind of like changing now, right?

They, you know, because there's new platforms, new landscapes, new way of comm, new ways of communicating, communicating with an audience, and we're learning with that. I think that as a broadcaster. You know, and I'm speaking for my colleagues here, really more than myself. We're really good at. The, you know, when we kind of, when it comes to true crime in terms of how we're distributing the decisions that we make, mm-hmm.

I, I know that 'cause I can see it and I can, I can see the, you know, the language that people use and the way that they approach it and how we really wanna make sure that, you know, a core principle of how we approach true crime is, is, is, is value driven and is, is is, you know, is, is is purposeful at its core.

I mean, I dunno whether, whether we're gonna touch on it, but a new commission that we've got kinda coming up with, which is in production at the moment called, I made, I made a murderer that's, say a working title with fork Studios for us. You know, it, it was commissioned before, but when we, when Ad Adolescent came out and there was the whole story in that about the, the, the perpetrator's family.

I. That for us really kind of like lined up in terms of from a zeitgeist moment, a kind of a conversation that was happening quite coincidentally, but also quite happily for us in terms of how we can get, how we can make sure that we're delivering different stories, but still really purposeful and Dr.

Like driven stories that really should be told. And for us, that's what really about. Meeting essentially another victim behind these crimes, and that is the perpetrator's families. Ones that ultimately don't have perhaps as much agency or the ability to kinda speak in their own words as everybody else that's been affected by the crimes because essentially that power has been taken from them or they don't feel comfortable in that situation.

And for us, being able to kind of tell that story, but still do it sensitively in a way that you know means that we're not undermining. The the victim's family or, or, or the, the, you know, from a a process perspective, anything else that kind of haha has come across from the, from the crime itself is really valuable because we're kinda giving a voice to the voiceless.

And for me, that's really, that's really important. And something that, again, kind of comes back to the call, why we're doing true crime and is something that I'm, I'm, I'm really driven by and motivated by. 

So tell us what are the. Channel brands, you're commissioning digital first projects for then Sam. 

So as, as I I've mentioned SC History and Crime Investigation, those are our two core channel brands really, and they have SO extensions history play and crime investigation play, which are kind of probably two of the most important kind of TV viewing experiences for our audiences.

Content does go dis gets distributed on, on, on broadcast abroad, on On Sky and Virgin and wherever else you can kinda get a hold of our. TV channels, but SO is, is is equally important for us in terms of how we access our audiences. We do have Blaze as well a free to air channel, but we're not specifically commissioning content for that or otherwise.

But, but content may end up kind of migrating over to there, depending on rights and, and that kind of thing. And, and obviously a theme and topic, but it's really focused on those two channels. Okay. 

And is the, have you got a particular focus right now that you're looking to commission for those two channel brands?

Have you, can you give any producers, digital, first producers out there, some sort of clues about what you might be looking for? 

Yeah, of course. I mean, we, so we've, this year has been our kind of big move into doing more history. Crime, crime investigation and true crime has been our focus primarily over the first year and year and a half.

So we are looking at more history format ideas, but at the same time, still looking at true crime where. Looking at kind of studio based ideas, you know, how we can kind of be focused in how we can kind of make as much get, get as much value on screen as possible based on the budgets that we're offering.

Really kind of be, make sure that you know that, that the producers, the partners we work with are, are getting their value back from the ideas that we're kind of handing over. But otherwise, you know, what I'm excited about kinda like next is, is perhaps, you know, different ways that we can kind of tell history stories, different ways that we can tell true crime stories we haven't done yet for history.

That might be like panel shows. I. Quizzes, it might be formats where you can kind of more experiential formats where you can really kind of touch and feel history with your hands that, you know, that might be studio based on a table or it might be metal detector in a field. But for me, that kinda experiential idea I think is really interesting in a real, kinda like digital first way of kind of communicating, communicating history stories.

And, you know, I'd place underneath all that goes without saying, obviously with the, you know, with the, the, the studio, panel or or quiz show elements that there's kind of like, we want a sprinkle of entertainment underneath all of this. Yeah. We don't want it to be dry. We want it to kinda make sure that we're kind of being entertaining and, and, and, and, and speaking in the right kind of language.

Then the true crime space, it's really about how we make sure that stories first and how we can kind of find the right formats to tell low stories in a similar way that we did with Unbreakable. Making sure that we're kind of doubling down on the success that brought in terms of kinda like. Format driven piece in terms of the value that it brings, but also just making sure that we're.

Finding the right people to tell those stories as well and, and, and new and interesting ways that say, haven't been told elsewhere by other content studios or other, other broadcasters. For me, that's kind of where we're kinda sitting at the moment. 

Okay. And, and, and when you are talking about the, the platforms that presumably it's mainly YouTube that you are thinking about commissioning for or, or does, does Facebook play a role as well?

It's, it's actually yeah, I mean it's not really, YouTube is a, is a key platform for us, but it's not, it's certainly not a key focus I mentioned before about being kind of strategically unstrategic in the way we distribute and that really kinda plays into everything that we do produce. I don't think I can think of anything that we haven't posted everywhere and that really is kinda like a key remit under the kind of test and learn.

Project kind of ideology for us, how we can make sure that we're kind of producing content that's gonna go on broadcast, avoid on subscriber, avoid on YouTube, on Facebook, on TikTok, on Instagram, on Snapchat, on everywhere, so we can really kinda make sure that we're kinda learning as much as possible.

I would say that when we're producing a piece of content. There's always perhaps two platforms that we've got in mind that we want to kind of really kind of hone in on. For example, with History Crush Katie is a TikTok and Instagram vertical creator. So we know what, when we're producing that, we need to make sure that it works in vertical.

But at the same time, we want to kind of look at how we. Can translate her into a TV viewing experience, a more perhaps lean back experience. And so for me in that, when we're kind of producing that content, it's how do we make it so it works on bvo d when you're on Sky and you download, you know, piece of content and you watch a, a show how it works in that environment.

But also as just scrolling through TikTok and, you know, you, there's a bit of. Thumb stopping content that you kind of get go past because Kate is saying something kind of outlandish. It's those two really for me, in terms of how we kinda make that piece of content. But that's not the same for everything.

We'll have different kind of like goals in, with 

each piece of content. Yeah. And, and, and what does success look like then for a piece of content? I mean, are you, I mean, I, I imagine it's, it's, it's a, it's a range of things, but, as you're testing and learning, is it the engagement, is it the view view figures?

Is it, you know, watch time? Is it, I mean, I suppose it's a, it's an element of all of those, but you know, what, what are those key measures of success for you when it comes to digital first content? 

So so, so, well it's, it's kind of, again, it's kind of a bit project based, but it's really, kinda broken down into a few different things.

It'll be, for us, it'll be the kind of like the format talent, topical thematical point that I said right at the beginning about how we can kind of make sure that we're kind of finding something about out, about something within the production. So we'll do kind of like survey rounds afterwards, or we'll dig into kind of sentiment data and comments or, you know, we'll do as much as we can to kind of find out.

How it's being viewed by our audience so we can kind of make insight based insight driven decisions for the next piece of content that we might produce or wherever else it might be based on. Those, based on those points. And there's kind of like a an audience platform part of it, which would be more the kind of the engagement.

Side of things. And that for me, because obviously we're looking specifically at the content, obviously there's a whole load of other stuff, like click through rates on thumbnails and that kind of thing. But for me it's very much about the engagement stat. So watch time or the you know, the retention rate completion percentage, depending on the platform, which, you know, whichever one works best.

But for me, they're kinda like those retention graphs, those retention curves that you get on most platforms. They're the ones that are most insightful for me because they're really about looking at the quality of the content and where people are jumping off, where you're kind of seeing extra levels of engagement where people are going back and watching it again.

For me, that's the kinda like, that's the holy grail element of, of, of, of insight for me and making sure that we're honing in as far as possible onto those, insights, the positive and the negative to make sure that in the next show we're iterating that and again, and again, and again and again. 

Yeah. So it's so, so the lessons you're learning don't necessarily just apply to the, to another episode of that same show?

It could absolutely, it can relate to new show that you absolutely producing. 

So it's, and it's, you know, the kinda, the fundamental, like first kinda key thing is, you know, is, you know, no fear of failure. You know, don't get worried if you don't see views on something. For me, it's very much about like. You know, leave the ego at the door kind of thing.

Well, that's, that's brilliant. But that's rare, isn't it? I mean, especially with a big media organization, it's almost contrary to how a, how a major media org organization works 

per, per perhaps. I would say that, you know, the vast majority of people I speak with at Hearst Networks are definitely on that journey, and they understand it and they're kind of like, and they're with it for sure, because you can see the insights you get, you get from it.

You can see the value that you get. From it, you can see the journey and the, the narrative that you build from it. Yeah, and I would say, you know, outside of hers, like I'd imagine every single person that you speak to is definitely within that kind of mindset, because there's no way that you can succeed if you don't think in those terms.

Yeah. Your previous episode with, with Evie from Channel four, you know, one of the, kind of the really great bits in, in, I can't remember what, what point it was in maybe 10 minutes, in 15 minutes in where Avi's talking about, kinda about learning about the, the, the first, you know, first one minute, the first 30 seconds.

Almost like, and we learned we had exactly the same experience, but you know. Two years previously where we were putting kind of context, you know, explainers, intros at the top of the content that we're producing, almost thinking kind of slightly more TV production focused recaps, kind of re Yeah, kind of, yeah.

Kind of thinking in the same terms, kind of thinking like, you know, almost taking a, a. You know, 30 minute, hour commercial like TV script and kind of just trying to kinda shorten the whole experience to eight minutes when actually it's a completely different language and it's a completely different viewing experience.

It's so much more front loaded. It's, you've gotta ride the wave all the way through, you know, whatever duration you kind of, you you're pumping out. So 

it's like the reveal right up front and then Absolutely. Then how you get to the reveal. Yeah. Almost is, is the, is is the, the the design of the show for sure.

You, you've gotta make sure that you kind of hit people right from the very start. You know, there's, there's, there's, there's so much about, it's kinda like, is is making sure that you kinda get that, that, you know, that retention, those first three seconds, but then keep riding that wave for as long as possible.

Making sure that you kind of like leave as much as you can to assumption because what you don't wanna do is overexplain things. 'cause there's a century jumping off points, they're points at which people would make a decision to stop watching. And you wanna kind of cut as many of those out as possible.

Like I'd imagine right at the beginning of this. You know, the YouTube video, whatever, or the, or the, or the short that you produce, you're gonna start with kind of like me or you saying something, you know, quite energetic and revealing. Yeah. And like, and that is kinda like the right kind of, you know, thought process and making sure that that is, you know, we do that as much as possible.

I would say we're still making that mistake. We're still putting too much kind of context and too many jumping off points and too much low energy at the start, and no doubt we'll continue making that those mistakes. But we're certainly doing it a lot less than we used to. Yeah. And as long as we kinda keep on looking at those engagement stats, then we'll kind of keep on making those, we'll keep on making those mistakes less often.

And it's about kinda continuing that journey. 

And now it's time for Story of the Week where my guests get to nominate the content industry new story that's caught their eye in the past seven days. Sam, what's the story of the week? 

Well, I sent you two just in. Because there was two, there were two stories that kind of caught my attention that I, you know, I wanted to dig into.

They're very, a very similar kind of like angle, but we'll start with the, you know, with the, the, the more boring one, I guess. Yeah. Which is the, the acquisition of Captivate by Publicists. Mm. And it's, for me, you know, it's a kind of like, it's the news that kind of you know, gets you see it in all the, kinda the major kind of, you know, marketing, social media, digital first kind of publishing publishing outlets.

But for me, that's kinda like, it shows kind of where we're at as a wider media industry. 

Yeah. 

There's so much value being given to, you know, the creator network. The fact that, I mean, I, I had, I had actually not heard of Captivate before. 

Mm-hmm. 

And, but it covers, I believe I read 95% of, of of content creators with over 5,000 followers.

And for me it's just kinda like mind boggling that the, kinda like the reach of that has and then them joining publicists with their extended kind of network of different other I. Content creator platforms and, and they're obviously legacy of working with talent and nurturing them and kind of send them out.

For me, that whole story of creator straight to brand is quite kind of scary for the broadcast industry, but also I think is a, kinda like, is a bit of a. Should be kinda seen as a bit of a shock to the system and one that we should really kinda look at and think, well, actually we need to make sure that we're not getting left behind on that.

Yeah. So if we're, as a broadcaster trying to kind of invite creators to us, but we don't necessarily have the budgets that, you know, an FMCG kind of company has to pay for them on their platform, how do we make sure that. Either we're bringing the brand money in by delivering, say, trust or whatever scalable value that we can offer as a broadcaster.

Yeah. Brand safety. Brand safety, essentially. Yeah, exactly. Or what can we offer the, those creators from a experience intelligence perspective that helps them kind of go on their journey through as a, as a communicator or maybe find people at the beginning of their journey. And that to me is quite exciting because that's about kinda making sure that we're being kind of.

Future focused in terms of our, our journey on what is gonna be like a new world in five, 10 years. Yeah. So that's, that was the one that kind of jumped out to me probably the most, I. 

Yeah, I mean it's, it is interesting 'cause you look at, you know, one of the publishing brands that that, you know, you could say sort of almost created the format for a lot of social video and brand funded social video.

Lad Bible, for example. Yeah. It's really interesting to see how they're going to. Adapt to, you know, creators and brands working directly together. And I think it's same for publishers, but it's same for broadcasters. It's actually the, the, you know, it's the same challenge, isn't it? It is for sure. And that's, you know, the, it 

might be that we ultimately, you know, that the kind of like the, the.

The, the, the brand funded content ultimately kinda gets you the, the, the higher value hosts because you can kind of pay for their costs, which are obviously kind of rising. But certainly in our world where we don't have the budgets that can stretch that far, we wanna make sure that we're making honest decisions in terms of where our producers budgets go.

And that we're not kind of like really focusing on. Portfolio on, say, talent or whatever, that's gonna kind of calve up X percent of, of, of their of their budgets. It might be being much more kind of like real people focused and not really kinda focusing on those hosts. So it might be more kind of unbreakable, like how we can kinda make sure that as a brand we're using our value and legacy and platform to tell.

Human stories. 

Mm. 

Or to be able to kind of tell stories, say, and that obviously true crime example, but it could be kind of historical stories or even kinda any other kinda factual, factual story itself. And for me there's, there's a real interesting kind of challenge in that it's scary, but it's also, you know, any kinda like scary challenge is also an opportunity to kinda like to be seized.

Right. Yeah. 

Disruption. Does create huge opportunity, doesn't it? For sure. And there's, there's, as long as you're willing to step into the unknown a little bit, and as you're doing test and learn, then you know, that's there's, there's, that's the only way you're gonna succeed, right? 

Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah, yeah.

Yeah. And how about your other story of the week? 

Yes. So the, the second news piece was the PSB comedy heads from BBC Channel four and ITV talking on a panel recently about, about where kind of comedy, where sketch comedy is kind of going and you know, there was nothing. You know, I certainly don't want to kinda challenge anything that they said because it was, you know, it came from an honest place and I can kind of see their REIT for it.

But, but part of the story was very much about how we can bring more sketch comedy back to our our. Tv, our TV channels. And f from my perspective, I think there was something missing in the story there, which is about how certainly ITV Channel four and BBC can maybe kind of go to social platforms to really kinda make sure that they're nurturing and owning social first sketch comedy on those platforms first before thinking about how they can get the right kind of development ideas or treatments.

For that goes direct to tv. Like for me, I, you know, I think about like the sketch comedy that I've watched recently say, like Key and Peele, I can't remember the last time I watched A Key and Peele on tv, but I've watched it on TikTok and on YouTube shorts. And for me, that's kind of how I consume that content now.

And I'm not even kind of, you know, the, you know, the main demographic, age demographic for for those platforms. Mm-hmm. And I think if we're thinking in those terms, it's gotta be how you build that kind of brand loyalty and that trust to then ladder them up into kinda like a much more lean back long form viewing experience and how you can get them through to that.

And in the same terms about kind of like thinking if there, if there is a perceived decline in. In character comedy, how you can kinda make sure that you are developing that on social platforms? Because I don't see that decline. I can see kinda character comedy on TikTok. I, because I follow some of them, they're developing characters.

It doesn't naturally translate to TV because it's not thought out in the same way that. You know nineties and, and, and two thousands. Well, and, and earlier obviously kinda sketch comedy was, was, was pulled, pulled together. But those germs of ideas can be developed on social platforms first and BBC Channel thought.

They're definitely, you know, I know BBC are doing this because you can see what's BBC studios are doing. Yeah. But I think there's, there's a, perhaps a narrative from a commissioner to producer line, and also the rest of the business, you know, the, the social teams and marketing teams and, and programming teams about how to make sure that they're reaching the audience in the right possible way and not trying to kind of force the viewing experience when essentially the eyeballs are already moving.

And it's about making sure that you've got that kind of, that right user journey. 

Yeah. No, it's interesting. It's, almost seems like it's, you know, that, that that battle's always already been won and lost. Right. And it's kinda moved on a little bit, but but it's not, that's not to say there's, there isn't great opportunity for sketch, you know on, on the PSBs.

Right? 

Absolutely. I completely agree. I completely. Buy into that for me, there's a massive opportunity still, but it's about kind of approaching it with the right kind of mindset in my view. And it's perhaps about kind of putting, you know, development opportunities like BBC three or you know, those, or you know, what would've been kind of like radio and radio four, those opportunities where people would've, would've honed their craft previously.

How you make sure that they're using the. Platforms under the BBC arm or the Channel four name or IV in a different kind of way. And you know, they're doing it, but it's about kinda making sure that we're driving producers towards that as opposed to kind of thinking about how they can go TV first, in my view.

Yeah, interesting. And, and how about your hero of the week? Here of the week was a a difficult one for me. Not because there aren't any heroes, but because I just wanted to, I didn't wanna be as that, that, you know, earnest and be like, you know, Justin, you're my hero of the week. So I'm going with walking me dinosaurs in BBC, 

right?

Jurassic Park's coming back, walking me dinosaurs back. It's a big time to be a dinosaur fan. Very excited about it. There's been a little bit of, you know, discontent. You know, should Jurassic Park be well Jurassic World, obviously be returning, should walk in with dinosaurs, be done in the way that it's been done.

There are those kinda rumblings, but for me, I'll watch dinosaurs in any kind of, like any form and I'm still a kid at heart. And, alright. What's your favorite dinosaur? Favorite dinosaur? Well I've got two answers for that. So this is so boring now. One is, one is, one is barons. Right. And it like, you know, my, my head exploded when, when it, when the barracks came outta the lava in in in one of the Jurassic World films.

It's a, because it's a, a uk dinosaur, but it's still kind of like, you know, meat eater. It's still got the claws, the teeth, everything. Yeah. I love the fact when I was a kid that there was like a big, you know, UK based kind of carnivore. Dinosaur. Yeah. So that's, that's still one close map. 

Britta Saurus.

Yeah. And 

then, and then and the second one is, is a CAMA sous, because I did my my dissertation on on modeling. Where it's kind of air sacks would've been and how, whether it could have floated and whether it could have stood up its hand legs, whether it could have run. 

Okay. The 

boring stuff.

That's where that's, so I've still, 

I've got a bit of a soft spot in my heart for Kaari Soros. Okay. Well, it's the first time I've ever asked anybody what their favorite dinosaur is. You need to make a feature. Yeah, yeah. Absolutely. You gotta, you gotta have one. It's dinosaur of the week. Yeah. And and what.

Who or what are you telling to get in the bin? 

Getting in the bin is the, the phrase TV is dead or TV is dying because I, I absolutely hate when I see that phrase, and sorry if I'm if anyone has, anyone close to me has, has put that on LinkedIn and, and is now thinking that I hate them. 'cause that's not, not the case.

The phrase is the thing that I hate. 'cause for me, TV's not dead. It's not dying, it's just changing. Yeah. And it's evolving. And TV will always exist. It's just gonna disappear. You know? It's gonna be in a different form. Yeah. And what the term 

TV means is exactly. Is 

changing probably. Yeah, exactly.

Everything changes, everything always evolves. The way that people kinda consume video is gonna continue to evolve. And so for me, like whether it's still on what we kind of continue, we we term as a linear experience or whether it's VO or, or whether it's on TV or on your mobile, like who cares? It's still TV in my head.

And. I think to a certain extent TV will kind of continue in terms of some of the stuff that we hold dear in terms of the viewing experience. Like live sport is like, is always gonna be live sport. Yeah. You can't view that in any other way really. You know, maybe the platform can change but, and maybe kinda like the data that's afford can kind of change, but ultimately the experience is still the same.

Yeah. It's still a linear experience. Yeah. And so from my perspective, you know, 20 years in the future. It, things will look different, but TV will still 

exist. 

Yeah. 

Okay. Well that's a good, good good place to end. Sure. Sam, thank you so much for joining on. Thank you. That's been brilliant speaking to you and all the best with all the shows with Hearst Networks uk.

Okay.

That was Sam Pearson from Hearst Networks uk. Given us a real insight into how digital first strategy is being put into action across the entertainment factual. And history brands. If you enjoyed this episode, don't forget to like, subscribe, and share telecast with your network. We're on all podcast platforms.

Just search telecast TV on YouTube as well. Telecast was produced by Spirit Studios and recorded in London. We'll be back next week with a special show. Rounding up all the highlights of the TellyCast Digital Video Awards. Until then, stay safe.