How Spud Gun Studios Took Mashed Independent and Built a Digital-First Powerhouse

This week on TellyCast, Justin Crosby is joined by Tom Jenkins, Creative Director of Spud Gun Studios, the digital-first indie behind the hugely popular animation channel Mashed. Fresh from taking full ownership of the brand from Channel 4, Tom reveals how the studio is building on Mashed’s global fanbase of nearly seven million followers, striking new brand partnerships with the likes of Xbox and Baldur’s Gate, and winning four awards at the inaugural TellyCast Digital Video Awards. He shares insights on developing fan-focused animation in the new production economy, diversifying revenue through branded content, Patreon and FAST channels, and why staying human-made is central to their creative ethos in an era of AI-generated “slop.”

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Transcript

Justin Crosby: [00:00:00] Hi, I'm Justin Crosby. This week on TellyCast, we are joined by Tom Jenkins, creative director of Spud Gun Studios, the Digital first Indie behind the hugely popular mash channel, fresh from taking full ownership of MASHED from Channel four. Spud Gun is enjoying a run of strong growth. Brand partnerships with the likes of Xbox and Aldos Gate.

And four big wins are the inaugural TellyCast Digital Video Awards. We'll hear how Spud Gun is building on mass Global fan base, why independence matters, and where the studio sees the future for fan focused animation in the new production economy. Tom, welcome to Telecast. How are you doing? Thanks for 

Tom Jenkins: having me.

Yeah, I'm doing good. Yeah, 

Justin Crosby: great to have you here. Thanks. And this is, I think I'm trying to. Think I you, you might be our first ever animation studio on telecast after 240 episodes. Wow. 

Speaker 3: Yeah, I think 

Justin Crosby: so. Pure animation. Anyway, but yeah. Well, welcome to the show. Yeah, thanks. And, uh, you know, amazing success that you've had.

I'm really looking forward to getting into that, [00:01:00] talking about that in a little bit. But, um, first of all, tell us, tell us about Spud Gun. Tell us about the, uh, you know, the origin story of Spud Gun, where it comes from. 

Tom Jenkins: If I told you the whole story. Probably that would be it. This would be the one answer pod.

We'll be finished by the time that I finished, honestly. So I'm gonna try and tell a really condensed version. So mashed was initially an end of year kind of like TV show. Uh, it was actually four studios precursors, I think first broadcast commission. So ultimately what it was, right is it was, um. An end of year review show that worked with online kind of creatives, comedians, puppeteers, animators, live action musicians to kind of create short sketches and videos about, you know, the events of the year that ultimately was commissioned as a YouTube channel in 2013 and over.

Its history mashed shifted from something that kind of co covered current affairs and kind of politics and, and kind of, I guess, wider [00:02:00] news in the UK to something that focused exclusively, exclusively on video games and gaming. So, right. What is Mashed now? Mashed is a, a large kind of animation channel across YouTube, Snapchat, TikTok, Instagram and we make narrative driven comedy content.

About games and video game culture with a sprinkling of internet and pop culture. A really lec eclectic range of genres from like music to drama to horror to sci-fi. So yeah, that's kinda what what we do. 

Justin Crosby: And so mashed is run by the connected set and was originally run by the connect set. Just explain that a little bit.

Correct. 

Tom Jenkins: So the connected set were commissioned by Channel four to. Like develop and make mashed both as the broadcast show and as the YouTube channel. So yeah, that was me working for the connected set with a, again, a, a vast range of people over its kinda history. But that was myself, Jason Mitchell, a number of other kind of [00:03:00] people who were involved.

So yes, it was run via the connected set for most of its history until. April of this year when it was taken over by SP Gun Studios, which is like the new company, uh, that owns and operates mashed. 

Justin Crosby: Okay. And that sits 

Tom Jenkins: within 

Justin Crosby: Connected 

Tom Jenkins: Sets? SP Gun Studios? No. SP Gun Studios is a standalone new co, right? Yes.

Okay. So still with the involvement of some previous people within the connected set, but yes, it's a brand new company. Right? It's a new era. 

Justin Crosby: Exciting. It's a new 

Tom Jenkins: era, isn't it? Yeah. I've been saying era for I think decades. And I found out recently that it's not how you say it, so Yeah. You say it how you 

Justin Crosby: want.

Yeah. So you basically bought, bought the company out of Channel four. Yeah. Um, and that was after about a decade you say something like that? Yeah. Of, of, of being owned by Channel four. Why was the time right for MASH to become independent of Channel four then? 

Tom Jenkins: Well, I mean, I think ultimately Channel four decided.

They no longer wanted [00:04:00] to kind of recommission and, and proceed with mass. You know, like, I guess strategies and kind of directions change, you know? And I think in some ways it's crazy. I think we were maybe Channel four's one of their longest running commissions, you know? Yeah. We, we launched August, 2013.

Right. Um, so we've been going for a long time, you know, and I think ultimately they decided they wanted to do something different and Four 

Justin Crosby: Studio, their focus on four studios, obviously taking them in a bit of a 

Tom Jenkins: different direction. Yeah, exactly that. And I just think that we. Well, we see the potential, like it's got a massive audience kind of video.

Gaming as an industry is obviously kind of going from strength to strength regardless of, you know, I guess the kind of chaos that's at the very kind of upper echelons of video gaming. It's still a massive entertainment industry. It still makes more money. Than any other kind of entertainment industry, bigger 

Justin Crosby: than movies, let's written not, you know, not forget that it's bigger than movie industry, bigger than the TV industry and you know, just Yeah.

The enormous entertainment juggernaut. Really. 

Tom Jenkins: Exactly. And you know, and I think, you know, we, we [00:05:00] love, we love mashed, we love making the content. We've got a really dedicated and large audience. You know, we've built that over like a long period of time and we felt like we wanted to kind of carry on with it because we can see where it can kind of go.

Yeah. You know, and, and I think in a lot of ways. We've barely scratched. Where it can be and what his potential is. 

Justin Crosby: Yeah, 

Tom Jenkins: yeah, 

Justin Crosby: yeah. Well, that's it. You can now take that brand in any direction you want, which is really exciting. Let's, let's talk about those numbers for a second. Most recent stats I have here are for March, and that's 45 million views for mashed in March alone.

Yep. During that period, you had a hundred thousand new subscribers and you've got close to 7 million cross platform followers. So that's a huge community. So I can see why you wanted to take on and, uh, and build. So, you know, being independent, what, you know, what, what does that, what's that gonna look like?

Now? You know what you said you can take mashed in lots of different directions. What is that? Is that new? Is that new [00:06:00] shows? Is that, is that live events? Is that. Is that really utilizing the different opportunities that the new production economy can lend you because it's, you can do anything you, you like actually and bring that, bring that to life and meet the fans, 

Tom Jenkins: right?

Yeah. I mean, I think for us, what it means is, is really making the most of the commercial opportunities that we feel were, we're kind of there. I mean, we can be a lot more nimble, we can strike more interesting deals. Obviously we don't. Have to move through the same structures that we were kind of used to, which could sometimes, you know, slow us down, which is kind of understandable.

But just the nature of working at large organizations and the chains and the procedures that, you know, need to be kind of followed and kind of gone up, you know? So 

Speaker 3: yeah, 

Tom Jenkins: we've already, we've already done more commercial deals since we took over in April. In the last, what, three, four months then we've done in probably the last two years.

Before that. Wow. Yeah. And that's a real range of deals as well. You know, everything from [00:07:00] integrations to full blown pieces of branded content. Some have sat on mashed, others have sat on respective channels, and yeah, there's a number of other kind of conversations going on. 

Justin Crosby: So that's great. Branded content.

Animated, branded content is, uh, I mean there, there's, there must be huge opportunity there for you, you know, in, in, in that space. Te, tell us about, I think there's a, there was a recent project that you did as well with a, a gaming. Business. Tell us about that one. 

Tom Jenkins: Uh, we talking about, there's so many we talking about God's tv.

Justin Crosby: Yeah, yeah. Well could you talk about God's tv? There's, yeah. As you say, there's two or three actually, but there's Crystal of Atland as well, I think. Yes. Yeah. So I mean that's, 

Tom Jenkins: so that's an interesting one 'cause I guess it feeds back into what you were asking about what can we do now? So ultimately, kind of what we've been trying to do is our publishing schedule.

We actually publish less content. At the moment than we did when we were kind of under channel four. I mean primarily about kind of like funding. But what we've been looking at when we're commissioning content is where is the value? You know, like how does this [00:08:00] give us a return? So like that comes down to does it serve the health of the channel?

Does it bring in revenue? Does it have a strategic benefit to us? Maybe in the medium to the long term? Right? So with the Crystal Atland deal, that was really interesting because. Yeah. That is based on a series that actually won an award at the Telecast Wars, which is the Donkey Experience. Yes. Which is like a, a, a fictional podcast show that kind of taps into both video games and like the culture wars that seem to be kind of fought very much on podcasts as like one of the front lines of the, of the culture wars.

Right? Yeah. So. 

Justin Crosby: So it's like the, to, to anybody that hasn't seen Donkey Con experiences, basically it's like a Joe Rogan animated, uh, gorilla in a podcast show, like a bit like this interviewing different video games characters in many cases. Yeah. So it's, so it's a Joe 

Tom Jenkins: Rogan coded comedy podcast, right? Um, yeah, with a series of different kind of guests.

And I guess what we look to do is we try and [00:09:00] combine. Kind of like humor based around kind of gaming and you know, the kind of the characters and their backstories, you know? Yeah. With, yeah, with, with kind of cultural war and more kind of, I guess, relatable, broader kind of subjects, you know, so kind of like everything from, I guess, the economy of bananas.

What's an economy based purely on bananas? What does that look like? You know, kind of how does that work, you know, to kind of, I guess the slightly more kind of cerebral like. What happens when you die? If you're a character, a game character, but you respawn, what does death mean to you? How do you kind of pass that out?

You know, it's kind of like, it's something that I like to do quite a lot, which is like, it's like high concept, but lowbrow. Yeah. I guess is probably the way to describe it. Yeah. But obviously one thing that everybody has a podcast tries to do is they wanna sell product as well. So that allows us to then place integrations.

Within the podcast in a quite natural way the viewers are already used to experiencing when watching other podcasts. Yeah, so Crystal of Atlan was a advert for a, uh, kind of an [00:10:00] action RPG video game, and we placed that advert, which was also a comedy advert. Never a straight advert. We never do straight adverts.

We never try and sell hard. It's just madness. 

Justin Crosby: Yeah. Um, so you'll script, you, you'll come up with a, with a, uh, with a, a creative solution for, for the client. Yeah. Essentially. Correct. 

Tom Jenkins: So what we are then able to do is. That goes out as like a long form episode, right? 'cause what we're doing is we're doing less releases, but we're doing longer durations for watch time, for mid roll ads, et cetera.

And then we place the integrations in there, but then we also place that integration as a standalone short as well. So it allows us to kind of like leverage the audience in the different ways that we can distribute that content. Yeah. So as like a force multiplier, you know, for kind of like, uh, impressions and views.

Speaker 3: Yeah. 

Tom Jenkins: So yeah, they were incredibly happy. It's good for us. Yeah. Helps fund other kind of like directions that we want to go in. So yeah. 

Justin Crosby: We've talked about enormous success, you know, 7 million, uh, cross platform. Followers, Tom, [00:11:00] I mean, what is it that's driving that momentum?

You know, obviously it's super long established, been established for a decade or so, but you know, are you seeing that growth speeding up and what do you, what do you put it down to? What do you put down that, that success down to? 

Tom Jenkins: I mean, I think we, we really know our audience. We know our audience and, and what they like.

Uh, I think it's that we still continue to make content that we enjoy. Making. And I think kind of, obviously gaming is an area that's like incredibly kind of popular and it's something that we do and we still kind of play kind of quite a lot. So I would put that down to, you know, like a really great team who follow data and do look at how kind of audiences engage with that kind of content.

And I think also we're quite unique in that our content offering is, is pretty eclectic. It's quite wide and varied, you know, and I think that what we're trying to do with all of our content is. What are the hooks? What are the things that are gonna make people interested, uh, in what we're doing? And I think one thing that we do really well is we kind of [00:12:00] genre bend.

You know, like I think we look at a story and it's like. What is that relatable arc throughout the story that anybody could approach without any issue knowledge and still understand then what are like the onion layers over that? The little in jokes, the knots, the kind of the deeper stuff, you know, that's kind of really for the super fans as well, but then it's like, can we take this story and can we tell it through the genre of anime, but can we also make it musical and tap into an audience that likes music, you know?

So I think we're always looking for like 5, 6, 7 hooks. That can kind of get an audience. And I think that that's something that we've honed over years. Yeah. And got very, very good at. And even with our content, understanding how we can take one piece of content that works successfully as an eight minute episode, but then how do we work that out into shorts and other platforms and see how that does.

You know, and I think with Dokey Kong experience as an example, quite often are shorts. Do five, six, 7 million views in addition to the main release. You know? So I [00:13:00] think for us, when we're commissioning now to looking at the ecosystem, understanding how a piece of content can work in each platform in each way, and how you need to kind of like finesse that to make it, make it work.

Yeah. 

Justin Crosby: It's a great example of understanding your audience, doubling down on your niche and providing. Amazing content for, you know, the wider fan audience, but also the super fans all at the same time. And it's, uh, it's really smart and, uh, you know, you talk about creating different amount, different content for different platforms.

Yeah. And just in terms of your series brands then. Yeah. Uh, how many different. Shows do you put out per week a different, and, and how many different series brands have you got and how many releases are you putting out on a, a week? 

Tom Jenkins: So we're putting out, in terms of kind of like full length releases, it, it's, it's one to two a month?

Yeah. It's normally one original and then a, a different kind of release. Right. So that's kind of like the longer kind of content and that is like [00:14:00] there to sit for, watch time, you know, for retention, for kind of channel health. Right? Yeah. And then we have maybe three. Different shorts that go out per week.

So that's a mixture of new content and kind of like existing like library content as well, like recut or reedited or reworked, depending on Right. What's required. And then that content is frequently augmented by commercial deals we then do, where kind of clients want us to publish the work on the YouTube channel and the various kind of other social platforms that we Yeah.

As well. 

Justin Crosby: Yeah. Okay, but, but in terms of different series brands, then you have Donkey Kong experience, so there's Dokey 

Tom Jenkins: Kong experience. Yeah. And there's something about that. It's, there's something about, okay. 

Justin Crosby: Yes. 

Tom Jenkins: Right. So this is a kind of like a, a sonic parody series that we first launched a number of years ago, and that has just built like a phenomenal audience.

So it's actually kind of like for us. [00:15:00] Quite at times, quite intense. Kind of like drama, quite heavy. It's gone in a direction where the characters barely reflect the characters in the games, right? 'cause that's one thing that we always wanna try and do with all of the content we make, even with parody, like.

It has to be transformative. It has to have its own kind of like vibe, its own kind of like approach. So that is the other, kind of like the premium series that we're working on at the moment. Right. So that is kind of eight to 12 minutes an episode. Yeah. Every other month we publish, right? A new episode of that.

And that obviously does really well views wise, but that's what also drives a lot of our audiences to things like Patreon and kind of other places as well helps us with merchandise. So, yeah. Yeah. As you can see, each original that we self-publish and fund is serving 2, 3, 4. Different kind of like objectives for us as a company.

Justin Crosby: Yeah. Yeah. And, um, and where [00:16:00] are your audience then? I mean, what is it? Is it mainly UK and US or can, can you give, break us down roughly across, across, across both of those brands? 

Tom Jenkins: Yeah. So like the, the audiences is like. Our largest audience is in the US and then we have like sizable audiences in the uk, Germany, some other parts of Western Europe, south America.

There's a few countries in South America where we have quite a large audience, almost exclusively driven by our musical content, which is kind of interesting, right. Um, so yeah, that's where our, our audience really kind of is almost, uh, proportional to population sizes in each country. That's how we kind of.

Look at it. Okay. For the most part. Yeah. Okay. Obviously not big in China. Not big in China yet. Yeah. Um, but maybe they're watching it via other means. Yeah. 

Justin Crosby: Yeah. And, and is it dubbed then, or how, how do you localize content then? 

Tom Jenkins: So we don't currently dub audio. Uh, we do, however, have lots of different kind of subtitling [00:17:00] options.

Yeah. Um. But I think that YouTube has currently, or recently rolled out a feature that does create it's 

Justin Crosby: auto, 

Tom Jenkins: auto thing, right? Auto, yeah. I, I, I, I, I haven't listened to how good it is, but I imagine it's. Serviceable, uh, is what my guess would be. 

Justin Crosby: Well, yeah, I, I saw that come, come up on the telecast a few, uh, a few weeks ago, but I'm not seeing any noticeable spikes.

It'd be interesting to see if, you know, if, if there's any, you know, any, any, I'm guessing that you, there's no noticeable spikes that you've seen, you know, in terms of once that, once that function's 

Tom Jenkins: been turned on. Yeah, I mean, uh, we haven't seen like a massive kind of change, you know, and I think that if you really wanna kind of make the most of, uh, non-English speaking audiences.

You should go for a, a proper dub, you know? Yeah. Like something that feels premium. 'cause like our content is premium and I think that we always want it to be experienced in the best way it can be. 

Justin Crosby: Yeah. Yeah, yeah. So talking about, we, we were just talking before we started recording about you went to Gamescom recently?

Yeah, yeah, yeah. [00:18:00] And uh, and obviously. That is another huge industry event that many in the TV industry probably won't be aware of. But that's almost like the, uh, the Glastonbury of, uh, of the video gaming industry when it comes to, you know, it's almost like E three and. Cannes Lion and Miko and everything all rolled into one for the tea, for the gaming industry and it's over in Germany.

So, uh, how was that? How was your, I mean, it was 

Tom Jenkins: phenomenal. I mean, I think it's the biggest gaming event in the world now. I think now that kind of E three and like the big American events have kind of, you know, shut down and lots of kind of, um, manufacturers now in gaming in the US have running their own kind of more curated.

Kind of console specific events. Yeah. Gamescom is the last one standing. But yeah, it was an absolutely incredible event. I mean, this place, if anybody has goes and has look at the venue, it, it makes Excel. Excel looks like a, like a cottage, you know? Yeah. It's absolutely huge. I think. They had over half a million people kind of go through it.

It's [00:19:00] uh, it's Wednesday to Friday, but there's on a Monday and Tuesday there's like a devs com, like that's kind of developer only as well. But yeah, we went there. So like mass business to business space. Then there's a big kind of consumer facing space as well, but like, you know, developers and trade bodies from literally all over the world.

Like Yeah. Most countries are there, are represented all kind of regions. Yeah, absolutely phenomenal. Pretty much any game. That you can expect to come out either now or in the near future will be there represented somewhere or other, you know, from like one TV and a small little stand, you know, and kind of like hopeful.

Hopeful people. Yeah. Big grins to absolute monster games. Yeah. With 10 foot statues and kind of, yeah. 

Justin Crosby: But yeah, it was brilliant. 

Tom Jenkins: Yeah. 

Justin Crosby: And for you, obviously there's, there's, uh, brand partnership opportunities with a lot of those video games companies There. But also you are looking to create animation for cut scenes in games as well, so that's another, another area of expansion.[00:20:00] 

Yeah, 

Tom Jenkins: I mean, so we, when we went out there, we had like, you know, a load of different meetings to kind of, yeah. For people to talk to. Some people we worked with already on previous projects who wanted to kind of talk to us about like, what do we do next? Which was kind of great. We found out that we're. Big in Poland.

That was quite fun. So like we made a, uh, cartoon for a game called The Altars kind of quite recently, which is kind of like this kind of really unique game, like a philosophical sci-fi game where you can clone different versions of yourself who made different life choices and therefore ended up with different careers.

So you have a minor, you have a scientist, you know, you have a botanist, you know, so you can kind of clone. The right person to kind of fix whatever problem it is you are facing. So, okay. We went to meet them 'cause they were really happy with kind of what we'd done with them and, um, a bunch of the company who we hadn't met, piled into this little booth to kind of tell us, you know, how great we'd been doing.

But we then found out from a number of other Polish developers [00:21:00] who we'd met. That they'd been talking about us and you know, had vouched for our quality. And yeah. So it is kind of, you have bizarre scenarios like that, you know, where you meet people and Yeah, find out. But yeah, big in po very good. But even down to like, um, I met up with the creative director of, uh, company called Digital Extremes, somebody called Red Ford and MA's first ever bit of branded content we made.

And it was called a hundred Days of Warframe, and they still use it as a benchmark internally to show how kind of branded content should work. And that was 2015 I think, that we did that. And um, I met up with her and she was just like, it's great to meet you. We need to do a follow up. What's happens next?

But it was so cool that we created something that still resonated and made such an impact on them as a company. Yeah. That like 10 years later. They want to kind of get the band back together. Fantastic. Yeah. 

Justin Crosby: That's great. That's great. And so you mentioned Patreon. Yeah. Uh, [00:22:00] so any digital first production business, uh, these days has got to have multiple revenue streams.

You talked a bit about merchandising. Yeah. Tell us a little bit about overall, you know, what are those revenue streams that you have over and above obviously what you're working on the brand funded side. Yeah. And also potentially work for higher stuff when cut, cut scenes and also the advertising revenue generating through YouTube and other social channels.

Tell us about Patreon and perhaps other, other 

Tom Jenkins: interesting areas. Yeah. Well, I mean, I think. With Patreon, and if viewers dunno what it is, it's kind of just a service where people can kind of pledge to support, you know, an artist or a creator that they kinda like, and then they get access to either the creator or kind of, you know, early access for content, you know, pre-production stuff.

You know, I guess it's a way to kind of join, be like a super fan, you know, like, and it's also a way, I guess, to support creators financially who need that support to make the content that they kind of consume, right? Yeah. But the whole reason that we launched the Patreon is because. [00:23:00] Mashed, for better or worse, mash has been a faceless brand to an extent since its inception, right?

Mm-hmm. Like we are, we don't, we're not gonna create a lead like face first. And I think, like for us, that in some ways has been, has allowed us to kind of continue to evolve and change in a way that maybe individuals can't. Right? However, now that we've kind of gone independent, we thought it was really important that those who backed us got a chance to actually meet the team, you know, because, you know, there's a, there's a team of like.

People who are really dedicated to the channel success and to SP gun success, who, you know, are really talented and nobody ever knows who they are. So we're kind of pulling the curtain back a little bit and being, I guess, a bit more authentic and honest about. These are our challenges. These are the things that we wanna do.

Yeah. You know, so as well as kind of seeing how we make things and getting access to model sheets and character designs and, you know, all these other kind of like behind, you know, behind the scenes production stuff. It's a chance for them to connect with us directly and hear what we've got to say. And I guess tell us [00:24:00] what they wanna watch 

Justin Crosby: and does and, and how does that manifest itself?

Is that like studio visits and things like that? Do you, do you, so 

Tom Jenkins: at the moment we, we have kinda like two. Kind of like live, I guess, series that we run. One kind of looks back at kind of like some of our biggest stuff and kind of like tells people, you know, what went, what went right, yeah. What definitely didn't go right.

Yeah. Um, kind of like mistakes that never got noticed as well as the ones that did, you know, kind of, I guess the stories of a lot of the talent involved at the time because some people have gone on, you know, and done some really kind of fantastic things. So we have, uh, inside mashed. Which is me and Tom Payne, who's the MD of SP Gun.

Yep. Just talking to our audience about what's coming next, what they should get excited about, how they can support us, uh, and then making mashed, which is yeah, a kind of a look back at content. And these video are, 

Justin Crosby: these are video, uh, exclusive videos, essentially? 

Tom Jenkins: Yeah. These, they're, yeah. So these are exclusive videos that are available only on Patreon or to our YouTube members, but also allows us to kind of like gauge.

How interested are they in a specific bit of [00:25:00] merchandise? Like what series do they want us to kind of like, push ahead in, you know, and that gives them access to the discord, you know? So I think that is a revenue stream, but really that's much more about connecting with the audience in a, in a more meaningful way.

Yeah. But in terms of revenue beyond Ad Rev and yeah, kind of branded deals, we also distribute music. So we have published over the years a number of, kind of like pretty popular music tracks. Um, so they're. Distributed over various different kind of like digital storefronts as well. Right. So we also get revenue from music streams as well.

So, and is 

Justin Crosby: that, how is that related to 

Tom Jenkins: the channel then? So we have a track record for incredibly popular animated music videos as well, right. So they will launched obviously as videos un mashed, but then also made available as down purchasable and streamable music tracks as well. 

Justin Crosby: How did they, I don't wanna get too granular here, but how did they come about?

Were they, [00:26:00] was that you producing music videos for tracks that by third party artists and then that you were distributing it through your channel or, yeah. Yeah. So no, no. None of us music or I can't sing. 

Tom Jenkins: I can't sing. No, no, no. I can't sing. So that was us working with like musicians who I guess sat in the same space as us, you know?

Yeah. Because like in terms of. Music about video games is like, I think nerd core is kind of like a blanket, kind of like term. Yeah. But this is like a burgeoning kind of space in music. Yeah. With like more and more interest and kind of audiences, you know, every day. So, and some of 'em are scientists and major labels now as well as there being some like major live events, um, like Mag Fest and um, yeah, a bunch of others.

So we would often go to them and say, we've got an idea for a song. Can you help us make the song? Sometimes a musician will come to us and be like, we really wanna make a song about X game. Do you guys wanna do the video? So, but yes, we, we would commissioned and worked on, I love [00:27:00] music. I like dj. Yeah. Very sporadically.

I've always been really into music, so it was a chance for me to kind of like pretend. That I'm a producer and I know the difference between like a baseline and, but yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So I kind of, I, I know what I like and I know what, you know, I, I, I think I know what, you know, kind of good music sounds like.

I like to think. Yeah. 

Justin Crosby: Uh, yeah. 

Tom Jenkins: Yeah. 

Justin Crosby: Very cool. Yeah. And so what, so what about new, new opportunities sent, revenue opportunities going forward now that you are newly independent? Yeah. Um, what are the biggest opportunities that you see there for, for mash and spud gun? Commercially. 

Tom Jenkins: Yeah. Well, I mean, I think kind of like for us it's, we don't want to kind of settle on one revenue stream.

Like we don't wanna become comfortable with one way of making kind of money, because I think that that's kind of like incredibly dangerous. Yeah. With how volatile like the market and the industry is and will like continue to be. So I think for us, we want to continue to build commercial partnerships, you know, [00:28:00] like we have great.

Relationships with our commercial partners. We nearly always make follow up content with them after we've kind of established that relationship, whether that's kind of immediately or a number of years later. You know, we always leave a really great impression with the people that we work with, but like we want to go bigger than that with our commercial partners, you know, like we have some plans.

Certain approaches that kind of work in a way that's maybe a little bit different or a little bit of a larger scale than what we are used to doing now. And then we also wanna make original content. You know, like I think that that is a major focus for us and it's something that we've dabbled with in the past.

But, you know, we, we never were really able to kind of focus on it in a way that we wanted to because of the nature of the channel at the time and the objectives that were set to us. But yes, I think original content is. Absolutely where we want to be soon. So 

Justin Crosby: new, potentially new new series 

Tom Jenkins: brands.

Exactly. Fully original. No reliance on any existing [00:29:00] third party ip, longer form 

Justin Crosby: movies. 

Tom Jenkins: Yeah. Uh, I, I mean movies, maybe not movies kind of quite yet. Certainly longer form. 

Justin Crosby: Yeah. 

Tom Jenkins: Yeah. 

Justin Crosby: Okay. Yeah. Okay. And you recently moved into the Fast area, didn't you? Fast tv. So tell 

Tom Jenkins: us about that. Yeah, so we were approached by a channel called Animation Plus.

They're a US based channel. They're available on kind of like a bunch of different smart TVs. I think they're also available, they just done deal with Roku as well on the Roku box. So ultimately this company. Saw an opportunity and a massive appetite for adult animation and I guess kind of creator led animation.

So they approached us about licensing our content amongst other kind of creators content. And now it can be watched across, you know, millions I guess of kind of smart, smart TVs and kind of devices. Yeah. You know, like beyond kind of YouTube. So 

Speaker 3: yeah, 

Tom Jenkins: we signed up with them. I, I think actually just read quite recently, there was another announcement of another adult animation fast.

Channel, I think on, on the drop. Actually I saw it the other day, so like this is obviously. An [00:30:00] area where brands and companies can see like a, an audience and, and revenue opportunities. Yeah. So yeah, that was our experience as it stands with fast. 

Justin Crosby: Yeah. Yeah. And, uh, and finally, uh, congratulations again on the Telecast Digital Video Awards Thank you.

Four awards Yeah. On the night, the big winners of the night. Yep, yep. How was that? Was that, uh, was that a surprise? I mean, what, what, what, what did, what was, what was the 

Tom Jenkins: experience like? Yeah, it was, it was surreal for us. I mean, like, I mean. You'd, you'd have to, I think, be a real. Digital OG to kind of know our history amongst award ceremonies, but like we are the absolute perennial award ceremonies bridesmaids.

Um, we've been, we've been nominated many, many times and never kind of quite got it, although we did win a pro a promax silver award. Okay. So like, that's what I've been waving like desperately for years. Like, look guys. Okay. But no, I mean, it was brilliant for us. I think kind of like, you know, weed. We'd just taken full control of mashed.

We were obviously kind of like still in the stages of figuring [00:31:00] out how this was all gonna work once we kind of hit reality. Yeah. You know, we were nominated, I think for five, five awards. Yeah. On, on, on the night. We weren't sure if we were gonna win any. Um, so when the first one was announced and the judge, you know, the judging criteria was announced.

Yeah. I was kinda like, hang on a second, I think like. Yeah, got a pretty good, there's a pretty good shot here. So yeah, when we, I mean, it was great. It was like, I won't go into the whole like, you know, each one of the awards, but for, for us, I think it was like real vindication of like the content that we make, the direction that we are taking, the fact that we, the risk that we're taking in terms of, you know, acquiring mashed and yeah.

What that kind of takes in order to make it successful. Yeah. So yeah, I mean, it was. Brilliant night. Like, uh, yeah, winning awards is, is really fun. Like in, well, I guess is a massive shock to, to absolutely nobody. But yeah, it was great. Yeah, felt really happy with it and timely 

Justin Crosby: as well, I suppose, as should say.

It was, the timing was just right with the, [00:32:00] you know. Yeah. I've, I've been in a 

Tom Jenkins: situation in my life where I'm like, okay, which, who's taking which awards? This is me and me, me and other Tom, you know, so, uh, yeah, yeah, yeah. They're still pride of play, so if you ever watch one of our Petron videos, you will see them.

In the background. They're part of my kind of like DIY, brilliant onset, yeah. Stage set. Yeah. Excellent. 

Justin Crosby: So finally, you know, looking at the wider digital first landscape. Yeah. How do you see this whole area developing? I mean, you are, you are, you are in, you know, you. You've got all the right components to be successful in terms of fandom, in terms of, you know, experience, in terms of understanding your audience and, and, and really super serving them, uh, as well, you know, with the right sort of content.

I mean, you know, this digital first space is, you've been in it for 10 years, but you know that really it's becoming to most of the wider TV industry's consciousness over in [00:33:00] the last. 12 months, 18 months or so. I mean, how do you see developing? 

Tom Jenkins: I mean, I think what you are, I think for me what you're probably gonna see is audiences further gravitating towards kind of creators.

And I guess I think what ultimately what you're gonna have to start seeing soon is some sort of kind of like coalescence of different kind of brands. I think that things are still incredibly disparate and I think that there is, like on the horizon, the near horizon there is like a. Slot apocalypse coming, you know, with kind of like AI video and kind of content.

And I think that soon, what viewers are gonna value more than anything is gonna be like authenticity and I guess like a taste maker, a creator who can kind of, they know that the content that they're gonna watch is authentic and from them and they can kind of trust where it's gonna come from. And I think, yeah, where the industry is going right now is.

Using these audiences and I guess building out, and I guess what is the right direction for that content creator? You know, is [00:34:00] it live events? You know, is it kind of like live action? Is it animated series? Is it games? And I think what you're actually gonna start seeing is far more crossover in the, in a similar manner to the deal that we signed with Mebo.

You know, where you have kind of like creators either sitting within three or four. Different digital kind of entertainment spaces or collaborations between companies who have complimentary kind of skills, um, in specific areas. 

Justin Crosby: Hmm. Interesting. And, and my last, last question, which just occurred to me and I should have asked you earlier, earlier on, but, um, AI might be a dirty word for you when it comes to 2D animation, or, or is it, I mean, because.

You know, the a, uh, animation is, you know, typically so painstaking. Yeah. It's such a long process. Surely AI will just, you know, supersize everything that you do and you create and enable you to. Triple your out, uh, [00:35:00] production output really easily. Um, are you gonna do that? 

Tom Jenkins: I mean, so mashed will, we will never use an AI animation or create an AI animation that will go out on mashed.

Like mashed is, is gonna be human made kind of content, right? Um, I'm not anti ai, but like, I think for me. AI has to be used in a, in a way that feels kind of like ethical and kind of like, correct. So like, would I use it as a tool to help me maybe look at a range of different color palettes for a set of backgrounds?

You know, like at a pre-production stage, you know, yes, I would, but would I use it to kind of create animated content? I think for us right now, the answer. No. And I think that our audience really values the fact that what they're seeing are made by people that they kind of rate and they look up to. So I think, yeah, for us it's probably, it's not a direction that we'd, we'd go in Yeah.

At this moment in time. 

Justin Crosby: And that A USP really, the fact is it's, it's, it's a handmade, it's [00:36:00] craft really, isn't it? And it's, uh, and, and that's what sets this apart from. You know, AI slop, I think is the term that's gone. 

Tom Jenkins: Yeah. I mean, I mean, I guess like I, I, I watch AI slop and some of it is incredibly funny.

Yeah. Even if it's kind of like disturbing. But yeah, I think for us, we've spent a long time. Building up, like audience loyalty, you know, and an audience who really cares about what we do and the content that we make. And I think that, I think they would also be very disappointed if we, yeah. If that was a direction that we went in.

And I think kind of like that relationship with our audience is, is important. Yeah. And I don't think it's something that we would. In danger, you know? Yeah. Dabbling in that, in that space. But it's like I was saying to you earlier, I think there is no escape from it. It is coming like in some shape or form.

And I guess the question is gonna be soon, like how audiences manage to find what they want and are even able to discern between what's AI and what's not. And I think there's a lot of AI driven content in [00:37:00] big films and other things that people are watching already and they just, they just don't. Know it yet.

Yeah. I know that there are lots of rules and procedures about how broadcasters want it to be used and stuff, but I have no doubt that it's, it's seeping. It's seeping in, yeah. 

Justin Crosby: Yeah. Yeah. But, uh, but not, not for you? No. 

Tom Jenkins: Oh, yeah. 

Justin Crosby: No. Okay. Tom, now it's time for Story of the Week. Which is the part in the show where my guests to get to nominate their, uh, their most interesting TV industry story from the past seven days.

So what's your story of the week? 

Tom Jenkins: So I'm keeping it real and staying well within MySpace. So, uh, a trailer was released for a series called The Knight of Guinevere. So that was published I think a couple of days ago. It's already three and a half million. Views on a trailer. So it is. It is. Glitch Production's first 2D animated series.

So the reason this was interesting to me and like I guess inspiring as well, is that. So Glitch started off as a YouTube channel first. Uh, they have a channel called SMG 24, which is kind of like [00:38:00] Machinima based primarily on kind of like Nintendo kind of games. But they've also had like a number of quite successful 3D shows recently.

So there was an older series called Murder Drones that did quite well. YouTube only, but obviously they've also made the amazing World of Gumball. Yeah, which is, yeah. Episodes getting hundreds of millions of views optioned by Netflix to have a window where it can kind of be shown. You know? And I think for me, it's inspiring to see an animation studio that started off as a YouTube channel that started off doing parody, moved into original content, has seen phenomenal success, and then interestingly has gone from 3D to 2D.

So yeah, I think for me it was really cool to see something obviously. So in demand and like getting so much love from a dedicated audience who, for me, I guess are, we're on a similar path. Maybe not quite there yet, but like that was what was kind of great for me. So yeah, I'm really excited to see it kind of come out.

And it's, again, genre bending. It's like a, kind of like a, [00:39:00] it's kind of like a cyber punky action based, a little bit like, um, you know, snow White and Cinderella, kind of like Disney style kind of fantasy. So like, again, they're pulling on all these different. Kind of pop culture and kind of like genre hooks and knitting it together in a brand new way.

And yeah, it looks phenomenal. It's all really well taken out. 

Justin Crosby: Well, we'll, we'll put a link in the episode description so you can, you can check out that trailer. How about your hero of the week? 

Tom Jenkins: So I'm actually gonna go old school TV and my hero of the week is Munya Chihuahua. Uh, I watched his, um, tagger Alternative Yeah.

Lecture and, um. It's really fascinating actually. So, TCS have done some work with, with mania in the past, but for me there was something glorious about a guy going up to like the, the home of, of old school television, you know? Mm-hmm. And kind of like events and kind of really laying down where mistakes are being made, how they, you know, I guess the TV industry maybe missed [00:40:00] out on opportunities with mania, you know?

Mm-hmm. And I guess like. Yeah. A a an honest and timely kind of maybe reflection of certain areas and kind of spaces where TV could do better and, and if they were willing to kind of do better or kind of try and embrace it, could probably get a lot of success Yeah. Themselves. Yeah. So, yeah. 

Justin Crosby: Well, we'll see if they heed that.

I mean, uh. Probably many, many, uh, opportunities that lots of TV industry have had to, to, to take advantage of the changes and see the changes that are happening, but, uh, perhaps haven't. But anyway, there we are. That's a, that's a whole nother podcast show. How about getting in the bin? What is it that you, I'll 

Tom Jenkins: tell you, I'll tell you what's gonna get in the bin.

And it's also Edinburgh related. Isn't the fact that there was a panel that was called YouTube, the end of tv? 

Speaker 4: Yes. 

Tom Jenkins: If we, as we know it, yes. If you note question mark, I mean this panel. Must have been running for 15 years with a different title. Yeah. And name. And I think, you know, I, I, my understanding is that it was [00:41:00] completely packed out, like no room to even stand.

And I just think it's like, yes. Like it absolutely has come, it has already changed everything. You absolutely need to embrace it. Like, but it's still being presented as kind of like, has it happened yet? Yeah. Will it happen? Yeah. Like, I think for me, that can get in the bin because it just reflects a complete.

W uh, I guess a willingness to accept the current media landscape and where young audiences in particular Yeah. Are and are watching their, their content. Yeah. And. It's online. It's on YouTube. Yeah. It's on Twitch. 

Justin Crosby: It's not on broadcast. And it's still that sense that, that, you know, that, uh, an industry still thinks this is a, as a new thing.

Right. And, uh, well, you know, your, your, your business is a great example of a, of a business has been going for a decades. 

Speaker 3: Yeah. 

Justin Crosby: Um, many others have as well. Spirit Studios been going for a long, long time. Many others in the digital [00:42:00] first space have been. You know, in this space for a long time. And, uh, yeah.

And to, to hear, you know, this is, is this the future? A bit? It's like, guys, yeah, please. Yeah. Tom, thank you so much for coming on. Thank you. This has been brilliant speaking to you. And the, uh. I think, you know, what you're doing with Spud Gun Studios is so exciting and, you know, this, it, it's, it's a really great example of, of what a digital first studio can be.

And, uh, and you know, the stuff that you're doing is obviously, you know, delivering for your audience is, is, is amazing. It's very inspirational. So thanks very much. Really appreciate it. Yeah. So, uh, congratulations on all that. Can't wait to to hear and, and see what you're gonna be doing next. Yeah. Nice.

Thank you. Well, that's about it. For this week's telecast, thanks to my guest, Tom Jenkins from Spud Gun Studios for the latest digital first industry news. Don't forget to subscribe to the drop@dropmedia.co.uk. And don't forget you can catch up on all previous episodes of telecast on your podcast, app of [00:43:00] choice, on YouTube or@telecast.com.

We'll be back with another show next week. Until then, stay safe.