TellyCast at MIPCOM (Part 3) - Warren Brown, Joe Churchill, Luci Sanan, Robbie Lyle & more

In the final TellyCast MIPCOM special from Cannes, we hear from the people shaping the digital-first future of TV. Fan Club’s Joe Churchill talks about brands becoming broadcasters and his upcoming session at the TellyCast Digital Content Forum. Luci Sanan from Cowshed Ventures reveals her new YouTube adventure joint venture with Propagate Content. EndemolShine Nederland’s Sil Geurtsen explains how hit format Let’s Play Ball made the leap from YouTube to TV, and Arsenal Fan TV’s Robbie Lyle shares how he built a global fan-led media empire.

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Transcript

Justin Crosby: [00:00:00] Hi, I am Justin Crosby and welcome to the third and final mcom special from Cam. On this week's show, we've got Joe Churchill from branded Content business fan club actor Warren Brown, and writer Matt Baker. Lucy Sanon from Cow Shed Ventures. Robbie Lyle from Arsenal Fan TV and Sil Geron from EndemolShine Netherland.

I hope you enjoyed the show. So I'm here with Joe Churchill from Fan Club new company that you've just, uh, set up six months ago, wasn't it, Joe? Uh, 

Joe Churchill: just under, I think we're in like month four, just the beginning of month four. So we're still kind of. Stretch, fresh out the gate, I would say. Yeah. And, 

Justin Crosby: uh, STV, uh, they invested in the business.

Tell, tell us a little bit about, you know, what, what the purpose of your business is and you know, what specifically you are gonna be offering the market. 

Joe Churchill: Yeah, absolutely. So, uh, fan club is a digital agency, uh, and our mission is to turn brands into broadcast. Um, it's a snappy tagline, but it, you know, it could mean lots of different things, but essentially what we do [00:01:00] is we take the traditional brand partnerships model where brands would go to media owners and effectively kind of rent their audiences and reach their audiences through content.

Um, we do that whole end-to-end, um, service, but we're a kind of plugin media partner to the brands. So we create the content craft, their channel identity, produce all of the content. And then we distribute it on their own and operated channels. So YouTube, Instagram, TikTok, Facebook, um, and then we work with them to manage those channels, grow the community, grow the audience.

Um, and I think, I think the difference between us and a traditional partnership, even though it operates in much the same way, is that they get something of lasting value at the end of it. So we'll give them all of those key metrics that they would get with a brand partner, but we also guarantee them an audience.

Which they own after that, so they can, you know, there's lots of kind of value and ROI that they can get from owning that audience rather than renting. 

Justin Crosby: Okay. So, um, so if we look at a great example of that, I mean, foot Asylum, I suppose is, is one of the brands that's really [00:02:00] sort of, uh, leaned heavily into creating their own channel to their own formats and their own content as a way to, uh, engage their audience, have a direct relationship with the audience, and then off the back of that.

Um, it's all about app downloads for them and lifetime value of, of, of customers. So it's, uh, so it's, uh, it seems to be, you know, very smart way of building your brand and having a direct relationship with that consumer, right? 

Joe Churchill: Yeah, absolutely. And yeah, I mean, foot asylum blaze the trail on this, like Absolutely.

And then you've also got, you know, JD Sports pretty little thing, Boohoo man all kind of playing in that space and, and, and creating their own content for their own audience. Um, that's very much in one kind of niche of, of content. You know, it's, it's youth focused, it's Gen Z, it's creator led entertainment formats, which is one way to go.

And I, it's fantastic to see what they're doing, but what we do is much broader than that. So we've certainly reached a critical mass now where everyone is online. Uh, the fastest growing demographic on YouTube is the over fifties. You [00:03:00] know, my mom is on Instagram. Um, so whoever the brand is, whoever their target audience is, you can reach them really effectively on these platforms.

Um, and it's interesting to see people like Marks and Spencers have just launched their own YouTube series called Love That. Um, and that's been really successful for them. You can see the comments, uh, popping up, uh, popping off, sorry. Um, and that is, you know, a much more kind of a broad grownup brand. Um, and you know, the briefs that we've been getting, the brands we've been talking to.

It's a really diverse array who want to speak to very different audiences in very different ways. Um, and that's what is really exciting for me about this space is to, to broaden it out from that kind of youth culture, uh, to take it in lots of different directions. 

Justin Crosby: Yeah. Well that's really interesting 'cause uh, 'cause obviously the, the, the brands that you mentioned, they're all of a similar.

Uh, obviously as you say, demographic, they're looking to the, but they're all, you know, clothing brands or, or footwear brands, et cetera. Um, so you mentioned Marks and Spencers. I mean, what are the [00:04:00] sectors, do you think, outside of, uh, uh, like supermarkets and uh, and clothing brands do you think that are really ripe for, uh, creating their own channels?

Joe Churchill: Yeah. Um, so there's a, there's a few kind of key perennial sectors that I think keep coming up. So, uh, like DIY and kind of home interiors, um, those kind of big brands. That's a really good space to play. And, um, we, we were talking to a lot of those people when I was at Channel four. Um, certainly, uh, kind of tech brands, um, and, and electronics brands as well.

Um, they, you know, I think they, they are looking to play in this space and they're a big kind of target for us. And also automotive. Um, you know, automotive is very kind of stuck in a particular form of advertising a lot of the time, which is. Very premium, very expensive. Uh, not really designed to connect with an audience, but just showcase the car.

Uh, but cars are literally vehicles for brilliant content. Like they're very, they're [00:05:00] very useful to kind of integrate into, uh, a content series. So that would be a good one we would love to be working in. Uh, and then travel, I think travel as well is a perennial that can be everything from tourist boards to kind of easy jet style, uh, airlines to, uh, like package holiday brands.

That's something that is always, is geared towards fantastic content. Um, and you've seen, you know, brands like Jet Two just going viral with, uh, yes. With their theme June last year just shows that, you know, there's so much ev everyone loves traveling, right? So for an audience like they're brands that, that, you know, inspire a bit of joy in us already.

Yeah. 

Justin Crosby: And, and obviously the, the, the, the way that people u use YouTube as a search engine, obviously to, you know, how to content, et cetera. It sort of suits itself very well to, like you said, DIY brands or, or other brands like that because it's, that's the beauty of YouTube as opposed to just being, you know, a broadcaster if you like.

It's also the search engine and it's also, you know, that community around content that, uh, that, that, uh, you know, that separates it from [00:06:00] many of the other. Social platforms. 

Joe Churchill: Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. And I, you know, I think this is what we always say to brands is like, start niche, find your niche, speak to that niche and build your core community there.

And then once you've nailed that, you can grow and broaden out in lots of different directions. That's what, you know, I think a lot of the most successful creators have done a lot of the most successful channels. Things like super carb blondie, starting with one super simple thing, and then, and then you can, you can grow and, and you can go in all sorts of different directions.

Yeah. 

Justin Crosby: Um. Now, um, you were at channel four. Yeah. Um, what did you learn at Channel four then? Do you think that you are applying to fan club? You know, what are the key learnings you took from your time there and obviously applying it now to your new business? 

Joe Churchill: Yeah, I mean, uh, I learned, so I come from a kind of TV production and development background.

Um, I was running a production company before I joined Channel four. Um, I think that was my first kind of immersion in the world of. Media agencies of, uh, kind of sales teams of [00:07:00] like real kind of deep brand strategy and platform strategy. Um, so I mean, I was a sponge for like four years there, just like really absorbing all of this information, working with genuinely some of the best people in the industry who have been, you know, at the cutting edge of, of digital publishing.

Um, and what. You know what our mission always was there was to bring that broadcast quality, you know, the, the kind of craft and the storytelling, and also the rigor and the kind of checks and balances of compliance that comes with a big service public, uh, public service broadcaster that combine that with the reach of social and, uh, the expertise in optimizing for those platforms that enable you to really successfully.

Land content that doesn't just, you know, it's not just about the views, it's not just about hooking people in with, um, with click bait at the start. It's about grabbing their attention, but it's also keeping their, their attention. And, you know, we saw very high retention rates across all of our content in, in branded end.

Um, and so yeah, I learned a huge amount [00:08:00] from that and that's definitely something that, you know, I'm bringing through to fan club. Like we've been very clear from the start. Um, whilst, you know, in some senses we're kind of unshackled from, you know, the self-governance that comes with a big organization like Channel four, we're absolutely gonna be re retaining those editorial standards and making content that is.

Exceptional that has high standards of duty of care, um, you know, that has that kind of trust and credibility. Um, but we're a little bit more freer in how we operate with the platforms and how we lean into the different kind of functionalities on, on each of the platforms to really drive, um, kind of awareness, sentiment and, uh, recall for brands.

So, you know, we can be a little bit more on the nose with, with the brand integration. Um, but I think we can do that in a way that doesn't disrupt the, uh, show for the audience. Um, and I think audiences are very savvy now. Like they're very used to branded entertainment and they don't mind if the content comes from a creator, from a brand, from a broadcaster.

So if it is from a brand, acknowledge that straight away. And as long as you are then showing them something [00:09:00] that's entertaining or useful or educational, they'll still stick around. 

Justin Crosby: And, um, who is it, uh, that you are? Predominantly dealing with, uh, when it comes to brands, are you speaking to brands direct or are you speaking to media agencies or PR agencies or advertising agencies?

You know, who are the, who are the key decision makers? 'cause presumably, you know, there's a huge amount of disruption going on in the advertising industry. Mm-hmm. Um, and brands are starting more and more to. Build their own in internal agencies and actually take back that control a little bit. Is are you seeing your conversation to director brands more than ever?

Joe Churchill: Um, it, it's a real, uh, kind of mixed ecosystem actually. Uh, so we've got really good relationships with, um, the media agencies and they were our kind of main customers when we were at channel four. Um, and so we're working a lot with media agencies, um, uh, trying to. You know, help 'em identify the brands who are ready for this kind of evolution of their branded entertainment.

Um, but [00:10:00] we're also talking direct to brand as well. Um, and you know, I, I, I would say both of those approaches can really work and, and really, uh, bear fruit, um, media agencies. You know, are brilliant at kind of educating their clients and taking them on that journey so that when you engage with 'em, they already kind of know what they're getting into.

Um, and whilst, you know, going brand direct, uh, can sometimes be a bit kind of quicker and cleaner. Often there's a bit more of an an education piece that you need to do because they're jumping into something that they might not be that familiar with. Yeah. Um. So, yeah, we we're doing both of those and, you know, we're, we're a startup, we're in very early stages, so really we're out there just talking to everybody.

Um, at this, at this stage. 

Justin Crosby: Well, you're also gonna be, uh, a partner for the digital content forum. Of course. Yeah. Which is coming up on 6th of November. Um, tell us a little bit about what delegates can expect from your session. 

Joe Churchill: Yeah, so we are gonna do a hot take session, slightly inspired by, uh, subway Takes, which I'm sure everyone's familiar with.

Um, we want to. Get people [00:11:00] talking and get a little bit of debate in the room. Um, so we are bringing down some brands and, uh, someone from an agency, and we are gonna go through some hot takes on what the future of branded entertainment might look like. Gonna throw some quite provocative ones out there.

And then we're gonna see who, who, who agrees and who disagrees with these hot takes, uh, and, and use those as kinda launch pads for discussion. We're hoping to make it a bit interactive as well. So we'll hopefully get the audience playing along, uh, and, and find out, you know. What percentage of the room agrees with, uh, some of these spiky things that we're checking out?

Fantastic. 

Justin Crosby: We're looking forward to that. It's gonna be, uh, a lot of fun and, uh, you know, I think, uh, uh, you know, very valuable. That's what we're always trying to do in the digital content forum is about insights and learning. So, uh, uh, so that's gonna be a lot of fun. Um, Joe, thank you so much for joining me, uh, on, uh.

Telecast Mcom. Special. Great to see you. Yeah, pleasure. Thanks. Thanks for having me. See you on your 6th of November and, uh, enjoy the rest of, uh, MCOM in Cannes. Thank you. We'll see you for a glass of rose before 

Joe Churchill: that, I'm sure. Absolutely. Cheers. [00:12:00] 

Justin Crosby: So I'm here with Warren Brown, who's the star of a Taste for Murder, brand new drama series from ICB studios and Matt Baker, who's the writer of, uh, A Taste for Murder.

Welcome guys. Great to see you. Thanks for having us. Mark it's time with you. Tell us about, uh, the story of a taste for murder, because this is something that you wrote in lockdown, uh, and it's a, a really different, different kind of drama series in terms of being, setting Capri and the elements of food and interesting mashup, if you like.

It is a 

Matt Baker: mashup, it's a good way of putting it. Yes. So it's, um, the, the origin of the show is, um, that I went on holiday to Italy with my wife and, uh, we had a friend who had. Worked, been very lucky and worked on a documentary about Italian food and culture. And we were going to Italy and we said, where should we go?

You know, where you've been to a lot of great restaurants, where should we go? And he sent us to this seaside restaurant, middle of nowhere, miles away, cursing him. Got there [00:13:00] best food experience of our, of our lives. And it, it was something about the way the Italians do, uh, uh, really, uh, do food, do restaurants, you know.

Uh, but also the, the sort of family nature of it. So it's a family restaurant, little quiet place. Granddad, the patriarch was in the kitchen. You know, daughter-in-law was waiting on tables. Mom was front of house, grandkids, you know, it was just, it was just a brilliant location and we thought, how can we get this into a TV drama?

And then when we were thinking about, I've, I've written a number of, uh, crime procedurals, which have been adaptations of shows, shot in other languages, and wanted to do our first, um, original crime procedure, if you like. Thinking, how can we make it different? We thought about the restaurant and, and the sort of, the idea sort of germinated from there.

How do you, how would you build a food dimension into a show like this and, uh, make it the sort of beating heart of the show, if you like. So that was the genesis of the idea. 

Justin Crosby: Yeah. And, uh, Warren, so what, what attracted you to the, to the role? Tell us about your character as well in, uh, [00:14:00] in a taste for murder and, and what attracted you to the role.

Warren Brown: Uh, so I play Joe Mara, who is, uh, a detective. With the Met Police in London, but after, uh, tragically losing his wife in an accident, um, he and his teenage daughter, uh, embark on a journey to Italy to spend time with the in-laws, uh, I guess with the hope of. Taking time out of work to try and reconnect with his daughter.

Obviously with the, with, with the, the, the, the mom and wife no longer around the, it's fair to say, you know, that their relationship is kind of under a lot of pressure. So the hopes to try and, you know, take some time off work, try and reconnect, try and spend some time and, and improve this relationship.

But, um, you know, that kind of goes a little bit wayward when they. Once they arrive in Italy and his dead wife's, I'm getting it right [00:15:00] this time, cousin, not, not the wife's dead cousin. His, um, his dead wife's cousin is. Arrested. Arrested and accused of a murder. So then Joe is kind of drawn back into the, the police world that he's trying to, I guess, avoid at this moment to try and help the family.

You know what one you asked that what, what, um, attracted me, you know, brilliant scripts, but also just the, so many different ingredients than. I think we've certainly in, in my own experience of, of having been involved in crime procedurals, that this was kind of, it wasn't at the forefront. The actual, the, the, the, the heart of it was.

It was a, a family coming together, you know, trying to grieve a loss and then an extra element of that. They run a fantastic restaurant and bringing together these two cultures. And two, I guess certainly for, for Joe's characters, you know, different attitudes towards food and, and what it means and what it [00:16:00] represents.

Yeah. You know, the Italians in this restaurant are so passionate about it, and it's such a, a big part of, of life actually sitting down and, and, and not just eating that we, that we all do every day, but, you know, taking your time with it, putting, being passionate about it, actually connecting and, and really talking and getting through things through food, which, it's a family unit really.

Is it? Completely, yeah. Alien towards, uh, he's completely alien for Joe because he, he admits in the first episode that. You know, we don't, we don't sit down and talk and, and they're flabbergasted that he doesn't cook. So they, uh, again, kind of attempt to, to rectify that. So he also goes on a bit of a. A, a, a journey trying to learn to cook, uh, with the hope of, you know, being able to cook for his daughter and hoping that that could be a way in for the relationship to, yeah.

To start rebuilding. 

Justin Crosby: Yeah. And, and how, how much of a role does Capri and food have within the drama? I mean, is is it an, is it, is it playing an [00:17:00] integral role? 

Matt Baker: Well, so Capri obviously, yes. Um, it's set in Capri, um, and. I think when you're, when you're trying to write these kind of shows, you're trying to, um, obviously I, as I said a little bit earlier, you're, you're spending a lot of time thinking about how to murder people.

Uh, and your internet search history gets full of, you know, name me a poison that's undetectable after five minutes, you know, all that kind of stuff. So. Yeah, if I joke a lot that if, uh, if anybody close to me ever does turn up dead, I'm absolutely stuffed because, uh, the Met Police will have me, uh, bank to rights within about five minutes.

But it, you are looking for different, you're looking for different ways for doing things. And the thing about Capri is it's got amazing history. It's also got amazing geography. So it's this had of beautiful kind of limestone jewel, Azure, kind of Bay of Naples. It's a gorgeous place. Uh. But it's very hilly.

It's up and down, so you've got cliffs, you know, so you are, you are, it's just, it's a great playground for your imagination. It's also got great history, so got, you know, palaces from Roman [00:18:00] emperors, but also it's got the Hollywood connection from the fifties. So you've got all these different elements to play with, and so when you're trying to come up with murders, it, you've just got a lot of, a lot of, a lot to work with.

You know, a lot of things that can distinguish and differentiate the show. Uh, you know, 'cause at the heart of these types of shows, every week someone gets killed or someone dies In unexplained circumstances, you've got to find a way to refresh the formula. So that was the Capri element, the food element is it, it's, it's the thing that binds the two halfs of the show together, I would say.

And I think as Warren Warren articulated very cl nicely, it's that sense of, um. Food is, is the emotional heart of the story. It's how families connect. How do they express themselves to each other? And, you know, Brits, let's be honest, are less good at that. Um, and I think men in particular, British men aren't the most known for being the most emotionally articulate people in the world.

So how do you learn that? How do you, uh. The, there is a, there is a sort of, you know, you [00:19:00] don't wanna make two completely separate shows. So there are always elements in each episode where something about the food dimension helps, provides a bridge into the crime. So it's something about the recipes cooking or the circumstance in which he's eating.

Which helps him gain emotional insight that helps him do his day job. So yeah, the two parts of the show work together in quite, hopefully quite clever harness like that. 

Justin Crosby: How long were you in Capri filming then? Uh, Warren. Was this, uh, was this, uh, I I imagine quite a, a nice experience being there for a while.

Well, just remember 

Matt Baker: we were filming off season, weren't we? Yes. So it wasn't as nice as you did. 

Warren Brown: Yeah. And, and often yeah, you are do dodging weather and, uh, as I say, outta season. But, um, if you are in that location and you've got those stun in Vista Yeah. Um, and as you see on, on, on camera, it just, it looks incredible.

It does. Yeah. 

Justin Crosby: Yeah, it really does. It's beautiful. Um, well, um, you are here launching the show at Nip MCOM to international buyers. Um, so I wish you all the very best with it. Thank you very much for [00:20:00] joining us. Thank you. Thank you so much. Thanks Justin. Cheers. So I'm here with Lucy Anne, who's head of cow.

She ventures part of the overall cow shed group. How you doing, Lucy? 

Luci sanan: Hi Justin. I'm good, thank you. How are you? 

Justin Crosby: I'm all right. This is all right. Isn't it's up there. Beach Beach's. Not too bad. Yeah. And, um, so you've got a new, new story cow share, and we'll talk about cow, she in a, a, a little bit more detail.

But first of all, let's get to the news that you've just announced. So, um, tell us about this new deal that you've struck. 

Luci sanan: Yeah, so we're really excited, struck a deal with Propagate, um, out of LA to set up a joint venture of a new YouTube channel called Survive Plus, which is gonna be the new home for musty adventure content with Bear Grills, Jack Randall, and lots of content that you know, and original content as well.

Wow. 

Justin Crosby: Okay. And, uh. So it's, it's, there's obviously huge catalog there from Rills, obviously, which is, uh, well known all over the world. I mean, uh, tell, tell us about some original content you might be producing as well. 

Luci sanan: So I think [00:21:00] it's, it's, it, it's an interesting model because it brings the digital first production expertise of cow.

Together with the known and love names, like Bear Grills of must see adventure content. And we've managed to tap into some really authentic original creators like Jack R Her who's a zoologist, who goes around the world discovering new, wonderful creatures and places to bring to his audience in a really engaging way.

So we're doing some original content with Jack, um, the Bear content, um, must see series like the Survivalists and hopefully touch towards some new great adventure content going forward. 

Justin Crosby: Well, this is, uh, kind of indicative of this move, uh, from the traditional media industry into Creator world, but also digital first studios, and it's all starting to sort of meld and mash mash up together and, uh, some interesting models.

So, um, so it is, uh, where did this relationship start? Was it something that, uh, that propagate, approached, care shared, or just give us a, a, an idea of where [00:22:00] it That's an interesting 

Luci sanan: question. I think that, um. Working with cow sheds, I have lots of conversations with people from the traditional broadcast world about how to work in digital and how to collaborate in that digital space.

And we are really open to collaboration. So Dan and I, um, Dan at Propagate and myself were talking about, you know, is there a way to look at the content that propagate distributes and the great relationships they have with the big. American Broadcast series and bring that together with cow shed's, digital expertise, and we said, why don't we set off the channel together?

Why don't we look at the great catalog content that propagate have got and third party that we can go after and combine that with some digital expertise and the. Not just the production expertise on the cashed side, but the publication expertise, the ability to reach audiences, not just on YouTube long form, but also across all social and optimize that and use our brand expertise to bring in brand sponsorships and hopefully make the stars align and, and [00:23:00] create a must see audience.

And must see location for audience wherever they are across social, uh, YouTube, and you can go and watch it on, on linear as well. 

Justin Crosby: Oh, right. So it's not purely, it's not purely YouTube, it's like multi-channel. It's multi-platform. 

Luci sanan: Yeah. I think it's, it's. Always important to try and reach the audience where they are.

And yet, YouTube's incredible. That's the number one starting point that we're starting with. But we're also launching across all social channels. And yes, I think the, depending, you know, there are rights restrictions on some of this content because it's bear grills, so of course you'd expect that. But where we can, we'll be exploiting it.

Cut downs, must see moments across social, um, and the jack content as well. Um. And Jack's always off to, whenever I hear from him, he is always in Indonesia or he is going to Namibia or Australia with his, with his camera, and we know that he's gonna come back with some good stuff. So excited about that as well.

Justin Crosby: Yeah. And, and, uh, so the Bay Grills content, has that ever been on, published on YouTube before or is it, [00:24:00] is it, you know, there 

Luci sanan: is, there is some, um, exposure on YouTube, but I really don't think that matters. I think we live in a amazing. New digital economy where the more you are published and the more places you are published, then the more incremental your views are gonna be.

Yeah. So we're gonna be working to cross promote new bear series and it shouldn't like. Often you hear broadcasters or people coming from the traditional broadcast space worrying about cannibalization of content, and I, I don't think that's, I don't think that's a thing. I think that was a thing in back in the exclusive world of linear where it was very much, those are my rights for the next 10 years and everybody else can go away.

It's more about, well, my audience is in lots of different places and you see a rise. Of linear transmissions, of linear viewership when things appear on YouTube. There's lots of case studies to support that now. Yeah. So hopefully we'll be able to work together to promote the new series as well as the existing content that we are publishing across digital and social and get [00:25:00] more viewers engaged in the, in the content.

All in on. 

Justin Crosby: And this, this really sort of underlines the power of a channel brand, doesn't it, really? And the importance of a channel brand. It's interesting what you're saying about, uh. Non exclusivity. It seems to be the last two years there's been a big shift in that. And we started to see a lot of distribution companies, even digital distribution companies actually licensing content to each other.

Yeah. Um, so that's, you know, that's a, a completely different way of approaching things. And was five years ago, for example, 

Luci sanan: it's, but it's super exciting. I mean, you still have conversations, mainly I have to say, with the biggest studios who are like, no, no, no, they're our rights. We're gonna put them on our channels.

Thank you very much. But more and more you're seeing an openness to like, why not? Like what is there to lose? I understand you might wanna keep some exclusivity for your. Your broadcast window. Great. Let's look at it in six months. Let's look at it in a year. Yeah. And look what happens. Yeah. And okay, you're not gonna get an upfront massive license fee like you might with a linear channel, but those are [00:26:00] few and far between now as well.

So why don't you look at what rights you've got and look at, are you fully exploiting them across all channels? Like what can you do? And I think it's just a different mindset, but the people that have really. Given it a go. Sometimes the proof's in the pudding, right? And you look at your royalty statements and you think, well, why didn't I do it earlier?

So I think people might as well just give it a shot. 

Justin Crosby: Absolutely. And we've seen some, uh, some examples of actually shows that, even formats that have actually, um. Become surprise hits in various territories around the world that have actually been then rebooted as a linear show as well. Yeah. So there's, you know, 

Luci sanan: see more and more of that and more and more things moving from digital or social to, to linear.

Yeah. And I think it's great. 

Justin Crosby: Yeah. And, um, so for those who dunno about cow shed, I mean we cover them a lot in the drop obviously. Um, but, but for those who aren't, uh, uh, aware of cow shed and, and the overall business. 'cause you run the venture side of the business. I do, yeah. But, but tell us about the other, uh, parts of Cow shed.

Yeah, 

Luci sanan: cow shed are quite a, [00:27:00] an exciting business that have been around since 2019. Set up by two bodies called George and Ryan. I think they're becoming more and more familiar faces in the broadcast facing industry as well as the digital roots. And they started, uh, in social, started producing content for a lot of brands.

That's when I met them. I was working in the media agency side at the time and they were the cool guys making loads of content for brands, um, and became friends, started consulting for them and now. On a long-term consultancy basis, I'm running the Ventures division, um, which is part of the overall group.

So there's cash and studios that produce a lot of original content for social, for brands, very well known for producing, um, a lot of original formats for the foot as sale asylum, uh, brand channel 2.9 million subscribers, so it's quite well known. Um, they produce the first three seasons of Inside First on YouTube, and then first side men.

Um. Uh, on Netflix. Um, they produce shows for 4.0 produce for [00:28:00] brands like Jet Two, Boohoo Man, Bacardi, McDonald's, so lots of brand clients. They have a, a creator division, cashed creators that have quite a lot of interesting entertainment. First talent, which we hope to be working with on the channel and on other channels that we're launching.

Um, they do their own post. They do everything sort of end to end and it's, it is really exciting to be in that digital space where so much is happening. 

Justin Crosby: Yeah. Fantastic. Well, Lucy, thanks for joining. It's great to see you. Thanks so much. Thanks for your time, Angie. And, uh, and it's, it's good to have, hear, hear Elise accent on the crot.

One question for, for you before you go. 

Luci sanan: Yeah. 

Justin Crosby: Are we gonna stay up? 

Luci sanan: Absolutely. Definitely staying up. If we carry on playing like we have. Then no doubt about it, we were the better team against Spurs. Um, so watch out Burnley on Saturday. That's 

Justin Crosby: exactly, that's exactly right. I sp I saw Danny Fenton the other day and he, he, he, he surprisingly had a different view of, uh, of that game.

But anyway, um, Lucy, thanks for joining us. Enjoy Mcon. We'll see you soon. Thanks Justin. [00:29:00] 

Luci sanan: Take care. 

Justin Crosby: I'm here with Robbie Lyle from Arsenal Fan tv. You faced familiar to many? How you doing Robbie? I'm good. I'm good. Enjoying the sunshine. Yeah, it's beautiful, isn't it? 

Robbie Lyle: Bit of a bit of how I left it in the uk, but yeah.

Yeah. Nice. Yes. 

Justin Crosby: And uh, you are, uh, but you're no stranger to canne. You, you come for lions, don't you? 

Robbie Lyle: Yeah, I, I, I was here, um, in June for Cannes Lions, so, um, which was great. It was a great event, you know what I mean? So it's great to be back here. It's a lovely part of the world and, um. You know, to meet up with so many people, uh, industry people.

Yeah. Because it's a slightly different industry to the main one that I'm in, but yeah. Um, it's been really good. Yeah, really good. 

Justin Crosby: Great. Well, let's talk about that. Let's talk about Arsenal fan tv. So, um, uh, it's, it's so well you explain how, how would you describe it to, to those who haven't seen it? 

Robbie Lyle: Um, biggest football fan channel in the world.

Uh, we, we give fans a chance to. Have their say on the football club they love. So, um, yeah. And, uh, started up [00:30:00] pretty small, you know what I mean? It was just a two man operation to begin with. Uh, we rocked up outside Arsenal, started interviewing fans. I'm a lifelong Arsenal fan. Started getting fans opinions after, um, games and over that, that was, uh, 12 years ago.

12 years ago, November. Wow. And. You know, over a period of time, you know, it just become very, very popular. And, um, we're still doing it now. And, uh, now we've sort of turned into like a, a fully fledged media company. We've also got another channel called D Sports, which is like all football. We've got studios in, uh, north London, um, where we have A-A-F-T-V studio.

We have a studio for Dr. Sports, and we create a lot of content. Yeah, we make a lot of content, um, around, uh. Social media for all the social media platforms. Our biggest is YouTube. But you know, we are, we, we, we are, we're pretty big on all platforms. TikTok, Snapchat, um, you know, [00:31:00] uh, Instagram, Facebook. We've got over millions of followers across over 6 million followers.

Across those platforms. Yeah. Wow. 

Justin Crosby: Okay. And, um, now obviously Arsenal fans are, you know, first of all they're, they're the natural, uh, audience for you. But I mean, do, do you find that your content, um, extends outside that, that that Arsenal fan base? 

Robbie Lyle: Yeah, 100%. Especially now with D Sports, because on d sports, we, we feature influencers from all football clubs, but, um.

Yeah, you know, we've transcended, uh, the whole, the whole football industry. I mean, it's not a place you go in the world where people don't know, um, A FTV. So, um, we've recently been doing a lot of stuff in Africa where we've been going to, um, countries in Africa and doing what we call these watch parties where we'll watch a game with fans from Africa.

So we've done it in Nigeria, Ghana, Sierra Leone, we did it in Kenya. And like, I [00:32:00] mean, the one we did the other day in Kenya, we had over 2000 people watch a game with us. We had over a thousand in Ghana, a thousand in Sierra Leone, and the one in Nigeria had to do it in a secret location over being mobbed.

So, you know, and, and one of the things is like we've gone round the world with this and football fans, wherever you go, they're passionate about their football wherever you go around the world. So. That has been really exciting. This the, the recent stuff we've been doing in Africa, because I felt like nobody goes there.

You know, like we go to America, we go to Australia, China, everywhere, but we've not really been to Africa and there's so many passionate fans there. So it's been great to go around the world and speak to football fans. 'cause they love their, you know, they're just as passionate as I am. I'm just lucky that I can get to go to games.

Yeah. 'cause you know, they're, you know, I'm. In the uk. Yeah. 

Justin Crosby: And, and, uh, are, uh, are your, is your channel probably, you know, competing with the official arsenal, uh, channels? [00:33:00] I mean, is it, you're probably bigger now, aren't you? They've got more, 

Robbie Lyle: I'd say they've got, they've got more subscribers than us. Um. But I'd, I'd say we're, um, we've got more engagement than him.

Um, yeah. 'cause we talked to our 

Justin Crosby: audience 

Robbie Lyle: every single 

Justin Crosby: day. This is about opinion, isn't it? That's the the thing. Yeah. It's passionate opinion, uh, on, on a, on a kind of what you'd say. Niche, niche subject. But it's actually a very big niche. 

Robbie Lyle: Yeah. And you know, I, I feel like, uh, we've, what we've done, we've kind of changed the industry, you know, I mean, 'cause when we sort of first started doing what we were doing, we were the only people that were.

Focusing on fans, excuse me, and getting fans' opinions in the way that we do it. So, um, and over the years now, lots and lots of different people are doing it for different clubs right around the world. So, um, it has sort of changed how we, how we, um. Speak to fans. Yeah. Um, when it comes to football. 

Justin Crosby: Yeah. And, uh, 'cause up to, up to that point, it's very traditional kind of media operations around clubs, very sort of corporate [00:34:00] business like Yeah.

Uh, and, uh, sort of, uh, you know, focused on their own brand rather than. Uh, I mean, what, what you bring to this is that, you know, if you're a win, lose or draw, everyone's got an opinion. Uh, and yeah. So 

Robbie Lyle: authenticity. 

Justin Crosby: Yeah, that's right. Yeah. And it's, and, and that's, that's the secret for the success, isn't it?

Robbie Lyle: Excuse me. Yeah. The authenticity, the fact that you give, um, fans a chance to have their say. Um, and I, I think that's why people love it. You know what I mean? You get some 

Justin Crosby: pretty, pretty, uh, passionate, uh, responses that I've seen. Some, some round. You can, 

Robbie Lyle: you can, I mean, uh, football's a very passionate game, you know what I mean?

Like, it really does get your emotions going, you know what I mean? So nobody wants to lose, and I always say, you know, sometimes we go a bit overboard when we lose and we go a bit overboard and we win. You know what I mean? That's football fans, you know, it's, it is not always much of a middle ground, you know.

But, um, yeah, it's, it is football's, it's one of the, it's like a religion, isn't it? 

Justin Crosby: Yeah. 

Robbie Lyle: You know? Um, and it doesn't matter where you are, it doesn't matter [00:35:00] who you are. 

Justin Crosby: Yeah. 

Robbie Lyle: Whether you're rich, whether you're poor, whether you've got a great job or you've got no job, whether you are black, you're white female, it doesn't matter.

Yeah. You got your team, you love your team, and you all get together on that one day, or not even one day no more. It's like, you know, we're in chat groups or we're watching content and we're commenting on it. And we are all talking about football. So it's, it's amazing. It's, it's, it's amazing. And I always say with football, the way in which I look at football is you got 90 minutes, that's the game.

But leading up to that game, sometimes it can be a whole week of chatter around the game. Who's starting? Who should play this person should play that one shouldn't, who's injured, but. All that leading up. Then you've got the 90 minutes and when he finishes who was the best player? Who was who, what happened there That referee ripped us off this, that, blah, blah blah.

At that, at this 

Justin Crosby: as well. Right. That continues for the next game. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Absolutely. Yeah. [00:36:00] Um, so what's next for, uh, arsenal Fan tv then? I mean, uh, you've, you've obviously, um. Would you say you saturated the market for a, for the Arsenal fan base? I mean, can it, it, it probably can't grow any more than it, than it 

Robbie Lyle: has or can.

Well, I hope, I hope so. No, we're still growing and, um, you know, we're across loads of different platforms. Um, we recently did a deal, um, for the GFN Network, which is, um, what I own, which is like Arsenal Fan tv, SD sports. There's some other channels in there as well. We, we are on the Samsung TVs, right? So, um, and we're doing more deals like that and just making so fast 

Justin Crosby: channel deals for your content, essentially.

Yeah. Fast channel 

Robbie Lyle: deals. We are, we are doing a lot at the moment and we're on every platform, so, um, and it, it keeps growing. It keeps growing, um, right across all what we do, you know, and through that, many of opportunities are arising. Hamma here at the moment. Um, because, uh, principally to speak about a documentary [00:37:00] that, um, did with, uh, ancestry and Appeal, um, which is called Discovery, uh, robbery, where they've sort of traced my, um, ancestral roots, um, right back to Jamaica.

It is fantastic. So it was on a panel yesterday talking about that. And then tomorrow I'm talking about on, on another panel talking about the creator economy, which, um. It's a major economy now. Yeah. Um, and I think I was at a YouTube, uh, festival the other day and there was government ministers and that there, and they're taking it serious now.

I I, I felt in the past they've not taken this industry serious, even though this is changing how we consume content. 

Justin Crosby: Yeah. And, 

Robbie Lyle: uh, I think at that, that, um, festival, they said 2.2 billion pounds was made. On YouTube alone. Yeah. In the creator economy in the UK last year. Yeah. So, um, it's a big, it's a big, big industry now and I think, you know, it's been interesting talking to a lot of the traditional, um.

Media [00:38:00] guys, um, here at mcom because I think a lot of 'em are realizing now that, you know, they have to adapt to it. 

Justin Crosby: Yeah. 

Robbie Lyle: Uh, because the audiences that are online, I mean, and on social media, I mean, that's, that's where young people are. Yeah. That's where they are. That's where they're consuming their content.

And if you are not there, they're not there. Yes. They're not with, they're not watching your content. So. I think you're seeing a lot of these, uh, major companies here are having to realize that they have to adapt 

Justin Crosby: Yes. 

Robbie Lyle: To this sort of changing world. 

Justin Crosby: Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. Uh, well, Robbie, thank you so much for joining me.

It's been No, it's brilliant. It's a pleasure. Uh, and, uh, I was actually at, uh, the Emirates, uh, early this season. Okay. Uh, I'm a leads fan. 

Robbie Lyle: Oh, yeah, yeah. Sorry about that. You know? Yes. Yeah, that was a, that was quite a droy money. It was five nil. 

Justin Crosby: Yeah. Yeah, yeah. That was, that was a 

Robbie Lyle: good, good performance for us that day.

I thought it 

Justin Crosby: was, it was painful, but there was some good, we got, had some good songs that we were singing. We were, you know, [00:39:00] uh, well, I'm trying to think what I can actually say, um, on the show, but I think, um, uh, second again, I think is the second, again, that's, that, that, 

Robbie Lyle: that's when the more goals started coming in mean every time.

Is We played Westham the other day. It was Neil Nal. That's what they started singing to Dick and Rice Second. Again, A lower league. Yeah. Yeah. And then straight away we scored. Yeah. You know, and, uh, people started singing to them. Um, relegate, what was it? Um, championship again. A le I don't, I think leads have, um, I think leads could stay up, you know?

But it's all on their home form. 

Justin Crosby: Yeah, that's 

Robbie Lyle: absolutely. It's all, I was really disappointed when you, the other day, first lost and to, I mean, come on man. We were, we were the better team as well. We were a better team. Both, but it's just they just had that big quality, didn't they? They had the quality, but Yeah.

But I can, I dunno. I think I, I think Lee's can, it's, it's a ground that I've been to many times. Yeah. It's a great atmosphere there. Yeah. And, um, I think leads can survive. I think. But it's, they gotta play well at home. 

Justin Crosby: Yeah. Yeah. And they can do it. Absolutely. I think, I think we can compete [00:40:00] and, you know, there's so much riding on it because there's new stadium build coming Yeah.

Uh, new owners with the, the Red Bull and all that. Yeah. The Red Bull and the 49 ERs. Yeah. You know, so it's, uh, it's, it's. It's set to, uh, to make a kind of the sleeping giant, I think could, uh, could, could reawaken. But, uh, anyway, we could talk about football, but that's, that's exactly what we're saying there.

Maybe I should start, that's for leads channel, you know? Yeah. 

Robbie Lyle: There is actually a couple of leads channels out there already. Yeah. So there, I think there's a channel now for every single. Um, premier League team. Definitely. I mean, you see one of your camera guys got a WS shirt on. 

Justin Crosby: Yeah. Yeah. Um, 

Robbie Lyle: and there's a WS channel.

Yeah, I know those guys pretty well. You know what I mean? There's a lot. Everyone's got a channel now. Yeah. So, 

Justin Crosby: yeah. 

Robbie Lyle: Um, it's fantastic. It's great to see you, you know? Yeah. So we kind of started a movement and I love it, so it's brilliant. 

Justin Crosby: Fantastic. Well, congratulations on all your success, rival. Thank you, uh, with the documentary as well.

Great to see you. And, uh, and thanks again for joining us. Thank you. So I'm here with Sil Gertin, who's head of development at Enderol Shine [00:41:00] Netherlands. Sil, great to see you. How are you? Great to see you. I'm great, thank you. Excellent. Now, uh, we are talking about creator economy, as you might imagine, uh, at this mcom it's a really, the theme of the market and, uh, Enderol Shine Netherlands has had a real, real success with Let's Play Ball.

It's something we've covered in the drop. And, uh, uh, and on telecast before as well. So just for, for those who don't know about, let's play Ball. Tell us about the format and, and how it came to be. 'cause it's a digital first project, essentially. 

Sil Guesrtsen: Yeah. So we, we had the essential idea, the first idea, uh, about getting this huge ball and getting it from A to B with some challenges on the way.

Um, but it's always hard to really pitch something like this, crazy to network or, uh, right away. So we sat down with, uh, or um, uh, like the Siteman of, of Holland and big YouTube channel. Do these kind of challenges to [00:42:00] discuss like, is this something we can do together? Uh, can we, uh, can we work on this so that you try it.

We have a little pilot. We have our little test, we have a little promo, uh, but also to see if it works. Um, and we already got a ball, so, um. Yeah. And then they came back to us like, do you still have the ball? Let's do it. So that was really cool. And, and so we did our first test in Amsterdam just one day with three guys pushing the ball around.

Uh, they made like a 30 minute, uh, video out of it that did very well. And it was also good to see, uh, what you hear also more now is that, that it's not only that a lot of people watch it, but also that they watch the whole thing. That was also the test for us, like, do you wanna see the whole thing? Do you wanna see how it ends?

And that was. Gave us such more confidence to, uh, to take it out. And we wanted 'em to take it out. But before you could take it out, they already called us, uh, TPA in this, in this case, to make it into a show for [00:43:00] tv. So that was, uh, it worked out. 

Justin Crosby: Fantastic. Well, that's a really great example of, uh, collaboration between creators and, uh, the legacy, uh, TV industry, if you like.

I mean, uh, is that something that, uh. The wider banerjee business is starting to focus on. 

Sil Guesrtsen: Yeah, we're doing it more and more also, uh, trying stuff on, on, on new ideas, on YouTube, uh, or maybe also the, our legacy titles to, to, to see if that work on other channels. Uh, and I, uh, I really believe in it and definitely with these crazy new ideas, it's always good to try it out and, uh.

Um, you see it also with, with the company we work with, with Signal, who, um, who, uh, we produce it and, and, and developed it with together, uh, doing it more and more. And, uh, so there was a good collaboration to, to do more of these. Uh, try it first things and then bring it to the big screen. 

Justin Crosby: And so, um, so tell us about, um, [00:44:00] are there any other broadcasters or tell us about that journey then.

So, obviously it did well on YouTube and then, uh, it got picked up. Uh, by tpa, you say? Yeah. Um, and, uh, and how about other, are there any other, uh, broadcasters that, uh, that, that you're talking to at the moment? Uh, 

Sil Guertsen: a lot. So how it works is that, that we, every JE label takes it out. So every country has a JE label.

They take it out. Um, and it's already in development in the UK and in, um, with initial ze, Petron also do LOL in the uk. Um, because it's very commonly driven. Also, this, this format is that, that felt like a really good fit. And, and, and now also with Bonnie Murray in, in the US picking it up. Um, and they're all pitching it now here, so that's really cool.

And, uh, so already heard about, uh, 8, 9, 10 countries really pitching it, um, and networks asking for it also. So that's an, uh, good thing and very broad. Also streamers, uh, [00:45:00] linear channels. So, uh. We'll see where it goes. Yeah. 

Justin Crosby: And so, um, I mean, would you also consider re um. Uh, uh, essentially, uh, repeating that model if you like.

So if there was a, a creator group, 'cause obviously we're seeing a lot of creative creator collaborations and creative groups forming and becoming, like you say, the side men, uh, and others becoming hugely popular. Would it be, would you consider doing another pilot in another territory with another creator collective?

Locally? On this show 

Sil Guesrtsen: or in general? In general, no, in general. Definitely. I think this model. Everybody also likes this case and, and in this model and this, uh, uh, so no, there's definitely a chance that we do more of these. Uh, we always go from format to format to see what's the best way to get it to the screen.

Um, and, uh, if there's a possibility to do this with, with the other group or with Signal again, then uh, we will definitely do it. 

Justin Crosby: Alright. Yeah. Um, well, so thank you [00:46:00] so much for joining me. It's been fantastic to, to me you, congratulations on the success of Let's Play Ball. Thank you. And, uh, and let us know about any other creator collaborations that you're doing.

Uh, end of sine uh, Netherlands. Thank you. Thank you for having me. Well, that's about it. From this year's Mcom Telecast was produced by Spirit Studios and recorded in camp. We'll be back next week with Tom Govan from Strong Watch Studios. Until then, stay safe.