Is Hollywood Broken? Peter White on YouTube, Netflix and the Future of TV

This week on TellyCast, Justin Crosby is joined by Peter White, Executive Editor at  Deadline⁠, for a wide-ranging conversation covering the biggest issues facing the global content business.

Peter shares his perspective from Los Angeles on the changing fortunes of Hollywood, the impact of YouTube on traditional television, the future of late-night programming following Stephen Colbert’s departure from CBS, the economics of streaming, and why production companies need to rethink how they make and monetise content.

The discussion explores major industry developments including the Paramount-Skydance deal, the rise of creator-led content, YouTube’s growing dominance in the attention economy, the future of unscripted television, and whether vertical drama is genuinely the next big thing or simply the latest industry fad.

Peter also explains why he believes the next generation of media talent will emerge from YouTube rather than traditional television, reveals why Deadline has expanded into live events, and shares his thoughts on the future relationship between creators, broadcasters and streamers.

A candid and insightful conversation about where television, social video and the wider creator economy are heading next.

In this episode:

• Is Hollywood really in crisis?
 • Why YouTube is winning the attention war
 • The future of late-night television after Stephen Colbert
 • The Paramount-Skydance merger and industry consolidation
 • Why production companies must reduce costs
 • Creator-led content versus traditional TV models
 • The rise of YouTube-first entertainment
 • Why Peter is sceptical about vertical drama
 • How Deadline is adapting to a changing media landscape
 • The future of TV, streaming and social video

TellyCast is the podcast exploring the future of television, social video and the creator economy.

Visit Tubular Labs

Sign up for The Drop newsletter

Enrol on the TellyCast Digital Bootcamp

Buy tickets for the Digital Content Forum

Subscribe to the TellyCast YouTube channel for exclusive TV industry videos
Follow us on LinkedIn
Connect with Justin on LinkedIN
TellyCast videos on YouTube
TellyCast website
TellyCast insta
TellyCast Twitter
TellyCast TikTok

Transcript

Justin Crosby: [00:00:00] Hi, I'm Justin Crosby, and welcome to another episode of TellyCast. My guest this week is an old friend of mine, and he's just straight in from LA. He's Peter White, executive editor from Deadline. How you doing, Pete? 

Peter White: Hello, mate. I'm good. I'm good. I was just thinking this, we're really sort of going back, uh, a while because when you first launched this, when it was in just audio form- 

Justin Crosby: Yeah

Peter White: we were doing this over Zoom in the end of 2020. 

Justin Crosby: That's it. 

Peter White: And we would do sort of 15 minutes in, uh, from LA just after I'd moved there, and you'd just started this. So it's nice to... You've upgraded to sofas. You're looking like Alex Cooper herself. 

Justin Crosby: Yeah. Thanks for that. Yeah. Yeah. And what I'm really looking forward to catching up, I mean, we're gonna go have for a beer afterwards, so we- we...

But but this is our first proper chat that we've had for ages. Yeah. And thanks for coming on in and having a chat. And you're right, I think, you know, you're going... 'Cause you went [00:01:00] to LA just before pandemic. Just, you were on the... Was it, like, you were the last flight out of London before lockdown happened, right?

March- To 

Peter White: LA ... March 17th, 2020. We were the last flight out of London Heathrow the day before the, or the day of the Trump travel ban. And yeah, stayed there ever since. 

Justin Crosby: Wow. 

Peter White: Yeah. 

Justin Crosby: We've got loads to talk about. All that change in the last five years- ... f- uh, which is, you know, the, the TV industry's some bits are recognizable, some bits not so.

Um, huge changes are happening. so I'm gonna start with this question. Is Hollywood burning down right now? 

Peter White: Uh, well, I hope not. I haven't been there for 24 hours, and it does have- ... a, uh, tendency to burn. But, um, no, I don't think it is. I think, uh, th- there's some challenges, don't get me wrong, and, and there's some things going on that aren't necessarily making it particularly fruitful for the people who live and work there.

But, uh, Hollywood's always been cyclical and people will figure this stuff out. I mean, it depends what you mean by Hollywood as well. There's a fi- you [00:02:00] know, a literal place. One of the challenges at the moment is, is production in Hollywood or in or around California. And then there's Hollywood, the sort of greater being of the studios, of which, yeah, since we last spoke, there's, uh, been some new owners and so forth, so there's still a lot of consolidation, uh, going on.

But no, it's, uh, it's, it's still a pretty exciting place to, to live and work. 

Justin Crosby: Yeah. But there's no getting away from the old industry is... You're right saying it's cyclical. But this feels more fundamental, I think. You know, the changes that we've seen over the, since the pandemic, you know, and, uh, in some cases, you know, accelerated by the pandemic as well.

We've seen obviously streaming come through, and now we're seeing YouTube as being TV. And, you know, the whole o- you know, the whole structure, ca- cable cutting, the whole structure of the of the US TV industry is changing, right? And, w- there's always gonna be people that are [00:03:00] gonna profit from that.

There's always gonna be people that, unfortunately may say that their time's over in TV. But overall Do you sense excitement in LA, in the LA industry in TV or, you know, uh, uh, or is there a certain amount of fear? 

Peter White: Oh, I think there's always fear, but I think you're right. I think there's two types of people who, uh, in the industry.

There's the people that, that... Everyone sees the change coming. It's those who can adapt and figure it out, and figure out the new world, and those who are still holding on to their, three-part Animal Planet commissions. I think that world is, is definitely dying, if not dead. But I think a lot of the people who are seeing...

As you said, we're living in YouTube's world now. We're living in this world where social media is, is so important. I think there's a lot of people from the old world that have just adapted to that and are doing exciting new things. The thing about Hollywood i- is over the last few years, it's sort of been run by dinosaurs and it's been run by [00:04:00] very old people, often old white men, and Hollywood is a young person's game.

There's some really exciting things going on. I mean, just... I don't cover the movie business per se, but you see what happens with Backrooms, this new A24 film. The guy was 18 when he directed it, and it's now on par to be A24's biggest movie ever. So you sort of need to find the youth and, and yeah, he came out of YouTube.

He came out of, uh, 4chan. And I think the, as long as the industry makes sure to find those types of people, they could still release theatrical movies. They can still make television in a sort of, quote-unquote, traditional form. But yeah maybe there's... Maybe some of the people who are worried are the people who are worried that's, uh, things have passed them by.

Justin Crosby: Yeah. Yeah. Well, I think that has been... I think the leaders of a lot of these corporations have seen the change coming, but maybe it was inconvenient for them to make potentially the change that they might have needed for the good of the company, rather than perhaps the good of their own pension pot or...[00:05:00] 

You know, it seems like there's very few people in the UK and also in the US that have, th- they will have known that, the changes were gonna happen and the speed that it was happening, but they didn't seem to be able to react, right? 

Peter White: I- In television, a- and I sort of understand why.

You're absolutely right. You look at the, what we used to think of as the cable world, which- Was responsible for the, the vast you know, this huge volume of, of original orders, original series, which allowed producers to, to make hand a, you know, m- a lot of money. And yeah, if you're still relying on that world, yeah, it- things are over.

If, as I said, if not dead already. But the problem is those businesses still throw off a lot of money, and they still throw off a lot of cash. So I do understand why it's hard for those companies to say, "You know what? That's not our business anymore, and we're just gonna go digital first. We're just gonna go social first."

So I sort of see... it's a, it's an oil tanker, right? Yeah. It just take... It, it is very slow to turn. I [00:06:00] think it's easier for some of the newer companies to be able to do that because they're, they have less baggage basically. And that's why you get some of the, you know, there's always a hot new company every few years.

But when you look at the studio system, yeah, you know, Warner Brothers Discovery and Paramount are merging, or David Ellison's buying Warner Brothers. But a lot of that money still comes from some of those cable networks that we hardly ever talk about now, you know? Y- the HGTVs of the world you know, the Science Channel and, and Discovery Channel and, and some of those things.

So I get why it, it can seem scary to those people. But I also know that they really do need to, you know, a lot of the traditional production companies are starting to make YouTube first TV shows or, quote-unquote, "TV shows." So it depends the scale of you are, but- 

Justin Crosby: Yeah ... 

Peter White: yeah. 

Justin Crosby: Yeah. So who's, who's thriving right now in, in LA in the TV business?

Peter White: I think the people who have figured out how to bring production costs down. That is the number one thing you hear across the board, whether that's from the movie business, from the linear TV business, the streaming [00:07:00] business. The problem is, and, a- and some of these Traditional companies it costs a lot of money to produce these shows 'cause this is the way they've always done it.

If you can find a slightly smarter way to do that... Now, you know, a few years ago, that was taking your show and making it in Ireland 'cause it was cheaper there, or making your sitcom in Wales even though it's for a US broadcaster. But even that's probably gotta come down now because the costs are so high and the viewership is so fragmented, that if you aren't able to make a show cheaper than you used to be, yeah you're dead.

You see what these kids can now make on- online and, and they're, they're absolutely wiping the floor with the, uh, with the old people. 

Justin Crosby: Yeah. So you me- you mentioned Paramount and the deal for Warners which is... I think it's just a... Has it been rubber-stamped in, uh, in the US? 

Peter White: No, it hasn't. It's not, it's not complete.

I mean, it's gonna happen any day now really. We don't quite have a timeline, but yeah, he's sort of got to tick all of the boxes before he's got the full keys to the kingdom. 

Justin Crosby: Yeah. Yeah. Well, I, I saw a a piece the other day which was talking about [00:08:00] EU and there's a whole load of regulation in the EU that are, you know, they're gonna investigate it as well.

So it feels like it's gonna rumble on for another year or two. 

Peter White: It'll rumble on. By the time it all finishes, it'll probably be, you know, someone else will try and buy it. Yeah. It tends to be. But no, it's, uh, it's funny, you, you, you mention Europe and the, all of these things. I think David Ellison doesn't really care about the rest of the world.

Yeah. I, I think, you know, there's probably a few bits of business elsewhere that, you know, makes a bit of money for him that'll be nice, but he's focused on making- Yeah ... making 30 movies a year. He's not focused on what's, uh, what's happening in, uh, on the continent in Europe. Yeah. 

Justin Crosby: Yeah. And what... So what, what...

Looking at that merger- and what's gonna come out the back end of that? What new company's gonna come out back, back of that? Number one thing is, is, it's, there's gotta be a huge number of redundancies, I would imagine. You know, it seems to, ev- there's no merger that happens without, 20% at least of staff going, but- 

Peter White: Well, a- and you have to remember, he, he only just bought [00:09:00] Paramount, and he's only still going through some of the layoffs for Paramount.

And he's gotta find 6 billion in savings for the new business. Now, he says he's gonna do that without making layoffs. I think you and I have been around long enough to know that's not gonna happen. 

Justin Crosby: Yeah. 

Peter White: There will be... You know, and, and there, of course there, there should be because there are gonna be a lot of people who are doing the same jobs at those two businesses.

But yeah, there'll be layoffs. It'll be depressing for a little while until, until the s- ship can steady. 

Justin Crosby: Yeah. So one of the... Now, you're executive editor now. Does that mean- ... that you still do the late night shows beat? Or is it, d- have you given that- ... to somebody else 

Peter White: now? No, I, uh, um, I haven't, yeah.

It's a pretty silly title really- ... uh, as Americans are want to do. What do I cover? I mean, I cover all of television. My boss, Nellie Andreeva, knows the scripted TV business better than anyone else, so I realized there was no real point in trying to, trying to compete with her for the scoops on that side of things.

So I sort of, yeah, I lent into [00:10:00] late night, which is having a really strange time, and, and, and I wanna come back to that in a second. Do a lot of unscripted, cover a lot of the reality TV business. And the reality TV business, in fact, we just launched an event in LA about a month ago called the Deadline Reality TV Summit.

And Yes, it doesn't get quite the attention that the scripted world does. But when you think about some of the unscripted shows, The Voice is the thing that's, you know, often propping NBC up. Love Is Blind is one of Netflix's biggest shows. MrBeast's Beast Games is Amazon's, biggest... They say it's a big unscripted show.

I'd say it's probably just as big as some of their, white men with gun shows. So these are unscripted titles that really prop up a lot of these places, and I think unscripted is gonna have a, a real place when it comes to YouTube. I just came from the upfronts in New York and YouTube does their annual brandcast, and it looked like an old-school TV presentation, and there was one or two scripted things.

But you know what it was? It looked a lot like cable of, of the olden days. It was, it was [00:11:00] unscripted formats. It was documentary series. They were cheaper to make, and they were being, 25-year-olds rather than 45-year-olds. But I think unscripted is where the initial rush in that YouTube world, in, in that, you know, whatever we're gonna call that is gonna come from.

And whether a format or two can pop out of that is what I think people are gonna be looking for. 

Justin Crosby: Yeah. Well, I yeah, w- definitely let's come to, on to talk about Late Night in a second. But but yeah, it was really interesting to see you launch that un- unscripted event. And, it's g- I love to see, you know, companies launching new events 'cause I know what goes into that and, uh...

But that, I thought that was a really interesting move because obviously we've seen Real Screen. Um, and, uh, and that p- you know, sadly fold, but, you know, which felt like a bit of a bellwether for the factual space in particular. But so what was the thinking behind that? 

Peter White: Well, I'd been pitching this event for 18 months.

It's funny, we announced our event the day that Real Screen announced that they were no longer, which I think a few [00:12:00] people sort of saw the correlation. But in fact, I, I just... firstly- That 

Justin Crosby: was purely by chance ... 

Peter White: it was purely it genuinely was a coincidence. Right, 

Justin Crosby: okay. 

Peter White: But I think we'd seen where things were going.

And honestly, I hate Miami with a passion, and Real Screen's been in Miami for the last few years. So I figured if I can create an event where I don't have to go to a city of crypto, then- ... then I'd be happy. But the other thing that or one of my main reasons for doing it was it used to be the case the unscripted business was East Coast and West Coast.

It was kind of 50/50 when I started writing about TV, and I would hazard a guess that it's probably now 80 to 90% on the West Coast. A lot of those production companies are based. And everyone was sort of saying, "Well, why are we flying all the way to Miami or New Orleans or all these other places? Why don't we do something in LA?

We've got better access to talent. We can get all of the top execs." We, you know, one of the top things that we had at, uh, at the Reality Summit was we had the buyers, we had the unscripted buyers for all of the major platforms and, and broadcasters. So we had the- Jeff Gaspin from Netflix, Jen Levy, who'd [00:13:00] just got the job at Amazon, and we had Fox and NBC and CBS and, and ABC.

And, and those six people were on a panel together for the first time, and it's really interesting to get those decision-makers together. And I sort of figured we could do that if we do it in LA. And we had access to talent. As I said, we had Andy Cohen, who ironically is an East Coast talent but happened to be in LA.

And I knew that the people who were gonna come to that event are based in LA. They don't need to spend too much time. It was, it was a, a one-day event. In fact, we're doing a, a spinoff in London next week, um, as part of South by Southwest, which is owned by PMC, which is the company that owns Deadline.

So we're sort of seeing it as this brand that we can do in the UK, we can do bigger in the States. I know the plan for us is to... The, basically the first one we did was a bit of a pilot. We wanna see if it works. Can we blow this out? Can we make it a bit bigger? And you know just better than anything, uh, Justin, events are, are the future because, you know, digital, uh, journalism doesn't necessarily make as much money as it used to.

Justin Crosby: No. Even with a, uh, [00:14:00] with the circulation of what, 22 million or something- ... I think Deadline, uh, has. There's 

Peter White: a couple of people that read us, yeah. Yeah, 

Justin Crosby: Yeah. So yeah, let's, so let's go back to Late Night then. Yeah. 'Cause there's been a huge amount of flux and, it seems like Donald Trump has had a hand to play in the change of, uh, the late night landscape.

Peter White: He would like to think he has, and, and obviously The Late Show with Stephen Colbert ended last week, and I was covering that last show. And, and you know, he'd been calling for Colbert's cancellation, he's been calling for Jimmy Kimmel's cancellation, and you know, uh, uh, Seth Meyers. He hasn't quite touched, uh, Jimmy Fallon as much or, or The Daily Show.

Mm. But Daily Show's cable, so maybe he just watches broadcast TV. Mm. It was ... There was an interesting statement that CBS put out yesterday, because if you remember the timing of, of the Colbert cancellation, it was last summer. So they gave him quite a long amount of time to, to run into his last shows.

It had come days after Stephen Colbert had said on his show that [00:15:00] Paramount had paid a big, fat bribe to the Trump administration. It was in relation to a interview on 60 Minutes, or the editing of an interview on 60 Minutes. And so, you know, the conspiracy theories were like, "That's why they've canceled the show.

The- David Ellison's come in they wanna make good with the Trump administration, they wanna make good with Donald Trump himself. So if we cancel Colbert, that'll go some way to do it." I think two things can be true at once. I think that probably had some influence, even though CBS has said it's not.

But the other thing is, it was clear that late night, and particularly on CBS, was costing a lot of money. In fact, CBS actually put out a statement yesterday that said they were losing $40 million a year to make that show, and that's a lot of money. And I don't necessarily think a late night show has to co- cost quite as much as maybe they were, were spending on it.

But they basically decided to get rid of late night because what was in its place now is a show with Byron Allen. But it's an, it's a ad buy. He pays, he, he [00:16:00] pays for the... He's a time buyer. He pays for the slot. He sells his own advertising. He can put whatever he wants on there, and they made the point that he's paying $15 million.

So there's a $55 million swing from losing $40 million a year to making 15 million, and it was a, it was better for them. So I think two things can be true at once. I think there was some political pressure, but it's clear that late night, you know, it just isn't what it was. People are... Fewer people are staying up to watch it on television.

Most people are watching it on YouTube the next day, and it costs a lot of money. 

Justin Crosby: Yeah. And and what's, what's what's his next move then? I mean, other than, I think... Did I see he's writing some Lord of the Rings- ... 

Peter White: movie? Yeah, he is a Lord, a huge Lord of the Rings fan, and he is writing a Lord of the Rings movie.

Justin Crosby: I mean, is it... First of all, is he a writer? I mean, I, I 

Peter White: Oh, well, yeah. No, he was, but long before he got into late night, even before The Colbert Report, yeah, he, he had written Strangers with Candy, was a program that he had. I think Amy Sedaris was in that. Fact check me on that. But, um, yeah, he is a writer, and he's one of the writers of his show.

I think that's some [00:17:00] fun. I mean, he clearly knows a lot about Lord of the Rings. But the interesting thing last week was he set up his own YouTube channel. 

Justin Crosby: Yeah. 

Peter White: Now, there's only one video that came, has... That he's put on it, and it was filmed the next day. It was almost like a public access TV show.

Looked like a low-budget version of his show. Uh, the slight difference was that he had Jeff Daniels and Eminem on it, which I'm sure if you're doing a cheap late night show, you can't do every night. But it was interesting that, that was his first move. Again, talking of late night Trevor Noah, who used to host The Daily Show, is now considered, quote-unquote, a creator because he's, he's doing a lot of work with YouTube.

So I think that's a, an obvious place for these people to go. They clearly have an audience. They clearly have a lot of fans, and they can do it themselves, and they are... You know, they have a lot of money because traditional broadcasters have paid them a lot of money. Yeah. So- 

Justin Crosby: Yeah ... 

Peter White: I think that's, whether that's what Stephen Colbert does full-time, who knows?

But in- interesting that that was his first move after leaving. But 

Justin Crosby: it feels like a logical move in the way that, Piers Morgan, again, you know, he's, he's almost created the blueprint there, hasn't [00:18:00] he, really? 

Peter White: I, I'm sure Stephen Colbert would love to be compared to- Yeah ... 

Justin Crosby: Piers Morgan. So let's talk about other new developments in content then that everybody's talking about right now.

I'm assu- and I can, see loads of deals being done in, uh, in Hollywood, is vertical video. And- 

Peter White: Yeah, okay ... 

Justin Crosby: and so, you know, the, we- we've seen lots of deals being done. I mean, I guess the most notable one of the last... it's a bit, a little bit of, a while ago now, but was Fox Entertainment investing in Holywater.

Peter White: . I can cut you off there because I don't buy it.

I don't buy vertical video. Do you remember a few years ago we were all talking about NFTs funding television? Yeah. I can remember back when 3D television was gonna be the- Yeah ... the hot new thing. And w- you know, when was the last time we said that? I think vertical video will exist. I think, that we- Obviously a lot of people watch content on their phone, and that's not gonna change.

I think it's, you know, it's a very particular genre that's done well in this. You take out the China [00:19:00] side of things and it's- Well, 

Justin Crosby: it's a very different business model in, in very different territories where- It- ... you've got people paying, you know, v- tiny amounts. Yeah. Huge numbers of people paying tiny amounts who are p- perhaps don't have access to regular TV.

Yeah. They're, they're just watching on their phones, have a good Wi-Fi signal in the, in the middle of China, rural China or some- People 

Peter White: are always gonna, e- even in, in the States, people are gonna, you know, on Instagram, yes, they might watch 30 seconds of my boyfriend killed my mistress some 60-second microdrama.

Is it gonna be a, a real business that we're talking about in a few years? I very much doubt it. Now, I think what will be interesting is I think you'll see a lot of the likes of... bravo just did this a few months ago. They announced a couple of shows. You know, Netflix might do some, some stuff in that world.

I just don't think it's gonna be, you know, it's not gonna be these soapy titles. We haven't had a h- an English language hit in the vertical space. No. And h- honestly, I think we won't be talking about this in two years. 

Justin Crosby: Well that's, I mean, the question is, is it is it basically gonna be content that's [00:20:00] gonna be focused on the, already the social platforms that are featuring this, whether it's Instagram or TikTok- Yeah

or whether there's a, a one app to rule them all. I mean, obviously that's what sort of Netflix and Disney+ is starting to- Yeah ... lean into. They're making it available. It probably is a test, but- 

Peter White: Exactly, because they're trying to take on TikTok. 

Justin Crosby: Yeah. 

Peter White: If you've, you've noticed over the last few years, Netflix has been taking on YouTube very aggressively.

You've seen what it's done in the sort of podcasting space, video podcasting space. They, you know, talk about YouTube all the time on their earning calls. Ted Sarandos calling YouTube a little bit of a farm league, which is ironic considering, you know, he's actually taking the talent from YouTube to try and pay them more to, to go to Netflix, so I guess in that sense it is.

I think the next one they'll try and take on is TikTok, because TikTok is clearly the place where most people watch these kind of vertical videos. Yeah. Saying this as two, uh, two men who don't watch a lot of TikTok. 

Justin Crosby: Well, I don't know. I d- I, I seem to scroll, do scroll- ... quite a fair bit, I have to say.

But yeah, , that's [00:21:00] really interesting. I, I think- I'd, I'll tell you what I also thought was interesting. There was a deal a week or so ago, by a company called Rosebury. Are you aware of, aware of Rosebury? No. So Rosebury did a, a deal with A&E All3, Banijay, Cineflix, and Fremantle, um, to basically verticalize selected catalog titles.

And basically using AI to sort of chop that content down and make that more appropriate, suitable for vertical viewing. Sure. So that that kinda makes sense g- because it's a low-cost production pipeline of content that's already there and it needs monetizing, and obviously all these b- businesses are like, "Yeah, yeah, let's feed into that."

But, how that gets monetized is, still the question, isn't it? 

Peter White: Yeah, I can't wait to see Mayday in my Instagram For You page. Yeah, that's gonna be really exciting. I think those deals have been going ever since, you know, we've been in, in this business. Every few years, whatever thing, new thing comes [00:22:00] around, you get the big distributors who have these giant catalogs of content- Yeah

and they figure out how to sell it again, whether that's selling it to subscription streaming or whether that, AVOD or, or now w- with this. They'll be do- they'll be flogging this stuff for forever, but it's, you know So 

Justin Crosby: you're call- calling it as a hoax, vertical video or- I 

Peter White: wouldn't say a hoax, but I don't think, I don't think we're gonna be talking about it in a couple years in this sense, no.

Justin Crosby: Yeah. No. Okay. And all right, well, so what, what do you think is the biggest opportunity that... You know, we've talked about the threats that's facing Hollywood and the U- US TV industry. What do you think the biggest opportunity is now, looking forward for, you know, where, where's this growth gonna come from?

Or is it? Or is it, is it purely a case of managed decline? 

Peter White: It's not managed decline. Make cool shit and make it cheaper. Simple as. We're due a big hit, whether that's in scripted or, or unscripted. I don't think things have changed. I think, you know, the ways we, perhaps watch things a little bit differently than we used to, but, make [00:23:00] cool shit and make it a little bit cheaper than you used to 

Justin Crosby: So I know you probably don't think about the UK industry that much anymore.

Peter White: Only when I'm winding you and our bowels up. 

Justin Crosby: Yeah, exactly. But w- historically the US industry's looked to the UK for, as a, you know, a real hotbed of talent- Yeah ... production talent but also onscreen talent, and we've seen that building over the last few years. But that feels to me that seems to be waning now.

I mean, w- how, how is Hollywood, and I say Hollywood in that wider sense of US TV industry, but how is it viewing the UK industry right now? 

Peter White: It, it's funny you say it's waning, uh, 'cause obviously before I joined Deadline I was at Broadcast and largely m- my job was to try and figure out what British production companies and British talent was doing in the States, and, and now I'm looking at it from a slightly different perception, is they still care as much.

And, and the UK is still that hotbed of talent and creativity, and Hollywood has [00:24:00] absolutely recognized it. What's changed is they used to have to go to certain people to get it, and now they can go direct. Look at the number of... I mean, even just, in, in acting circles, you know, British actors are, are widely considered, top of the heap, so that's fantastic.

In terms of formats, there's fewer formats in the unscripted world that are, are necessarily coming out of, but that doesn't mean that those people aren't. You know, there's so many... You look at the unscripted world in the States ABC has a commissioner, the, the number two unscripted commissioner, Gilly Pearce, who's British.

Fox just hired Sophie Leonard from Minnow Films, and she's a, a Brit. Rob Wade is the CEO of Fox, and he's a Brit who used to, you know, work on The X Factor and shows like that. So there's, you know, and they still employed me, so, you know, there's something about our accents and the way we, we do things is, is still very popular over there.

I just don't think they necessarily need to go to production company X or production company Y to do it. Perhaps the talent, and particularly now in this sort of ind- v- super independent [00:25:00] world I think that's it. But oh, man, the number... Americans still love coming over to London for a hunting trip.

Don't- Yeah ... don't get me wrong. 

Justin Crosby: Yeah. And so, and so what's, what's next for, for you in Deadline then, Pete? What's the, you know, what's the next, uh, or the rest of this year, we're almost halfway through 2026 already, but what's- Yeah, right ... what's the back end of the year look like for you?

Peter White: Oh, I couldn't possibly tell you what's happening anything more than a week away. But I think the thing for Deadline and the thing for me is we have to figure out... W- we still have a lot of people read our stories online. Now, we are... We face the same challenges that some of the traditional broadcasters face in that the people are just reading it in slightly different places.

We need to make sure we can monetize that. The fact that we're launching events like the Deadline Reality Summit the company owns South by Southwest, it's clear that events... I think live entertainment is the thing that joins the publishing business and the television business, and I think people want to experience that.

So I think we'll probably do more of that. But no, uh, Deadline's job is basically to make sure that we tell [00:26:00] you what's going on in the business before anybody else, and, uh, that won't change. The way we do it might change. You know, we've got three or four social media managers now in the world where we didn't when I joined because that's how a lot of people view our content and view our stories.

So there'll be tweaks to that. But ultimately, yeah, you, you read Deadline 'cause you wanna know what's going on and, and that bit of the job hasn't necessarily changed. 

Justin Crosby: What do you make of the whole Married at First Sight, scandal? Has that sort of made an impact in Hollywood? Are people aware of it?

Peter White: I'm not sure they have. Uh, I'm not sure they are. I think... married at First Sight was actually part of a huge deal at Peacock relatively recently because it used to be on A&- the A&E channels and, and Peacock bought it from Kinetic Content. There hasn't been a huge amount of chat. I think it tend, it is a very, this one is a very British problem and, and they clearly need to get to the bottom of it.

I haven't kept up to date with it, but from what my colleagues, you know, Jay Cantor writing about it and so forth it [00:27:00] looks... I mean, it doesn't look great, does it? I, I just don't think it, I don't think it's a problem inherent with the show. I think it's a problem inherent with the production, it seems.

Yeah. So, that problem hasn't, hasn't quite got... I mean, that format goes around the world, so I think, don't think it's just the US that would be keeping an eye on that. It's, the it's a b- a, it's a very British scandal, I think. 

Justin Crosby: Yeah. For an Australian show, right- ... as well,

Peter White: well, it's a Scandinavian show, but- Oh, is it?

It is a Scandinavian format. I think it came from Snowman which was the production company. But it was the Australian version which was a bit sexier, a bit faster, that seems to have basically influenced the UK. That was the 

Justin Crosby: hit through COVID, wasn't it- Yeah ... in the UK- Yeah ... and that, that then spa- uh, sparked the, uh, commission in the UK.

Peter White: Exactly, and I think that's it. But it, it, I think the format, it... I can't remember exactly which of the Scandinavian coun- countries it came out of. But yeah- Mm ... the Australian version was the thing that supercharged it. 

Justin Crosby: Yeah. 

Peter White: We'll see in the States whether whether it's a hit on Peacock, 'cause Peacock's had a lot of success with Love [00:28:00] Island.

It took them six seasons. Uh, it's the only show in America I can remember that they, it took them six seasons to become a hit, 'cause mostly, i- if a show isn't a hit after seasons one or two, it's done. Yeah. Um- 

Justin Crosby: Yeah. 

Peter White: Or episode one or two in some cases. Or episode one or two, yeah, exactly. With the, yeah, and streaming, uh, now season two is basically like episode two.

But, um, so yeah, we'll see if, if it has any knock on, uh, impact. I suspect it won't. 

Justin Crosby: Well, now it's time for, I'm looking forward to this, for your story of the week, Pete. 

Peter White: Well, we sort of touched on it a little bit in, in fact, we're talking of, of late night, given that Stephen Colbert, um, you know, was just kicked off the air last Thursday.

But I was gonna take this into a digital, uh, space, Justin- Good ... I know you like, uh... as I said, I came out of the upfronts last week, or the week before, sorry, and there was a couple of people doing some interesting things. There's a gu- a kid, I was gonna call him a guy, I mean, I think he's 20 years old.

His name is Julian Shapiro-Barnum, and he's launching a show called Outside Tonight. And it is essentially The Tonight Show. It's filmed [00:29:00] outside. It's filmed in New York. But it's got all the bells and whistles of a late night show. There's, there's music, there's comedy, there's variety, there's chat, and there's interviews.

And he's doing this at, I couldn't even tell you how much cheaper than The Tonight Show. But it will be interesting to see whether people connect with that because there's no real difference as to what he's doing as to what the traditional broadcasters do, are doing. And I think that will really open the door.

I mean, we've seen interview shows, you know, there's a million interview shows on YouTube. But I think the thing with late night is it's not just an interview show. It's all of the rest of it. It's the comedy aspect. It's the band at the end of the episode. And it's getting those A-listers on that, that you don't necessarily see.

So I'd be very curious just to see how Julian Shapiro-Barnum does and Outside Tonight. And there's one or two others. There's a guy called Ben Gleib, who he claims he's launching the, the first, uh, late night show on YouTube. I think he's beaten Julian by a few days. But post Colbert, and we will get to a point.

You know, Jimmy Kimmel's been threatening to retire for [00:30:00] years now, and, and Fallon and, and Seth Meyers, their contract comes up in 2028. So there will be a new generation doing this, and they probably will have never heard of Johnny Carson. They probably never even heard of David Letterman or Conan O'Brien to some extent.

But I think YouTube and social will be where some of these late night type shows go in the future. 

Justin Crosby: Yeah. No, that's gonna be exciting to see. How about your hero of the week? 

Peter White: Well, we sort of touched on it. I, I've got a couple. Um, I was gonna, I was gonna use a movie one, admittedly, this, the, you know, this is TellyCast, but I think I was gonna make the point of Kane Parsons, who is the director of Backrooms, because he comes out of this, Creepypasta YouTube world, and by all accounts this movie is gonna do incredibly well.

It's gonna be A24's biggest film. And I think that the talent that are focusing on making stuff like this, and I, and I'll give you another. There's a guy called Kareem Rahma, who many people will have seen. He does Subway Takes. 

Justin Crosby: Yeah. 

Peter White: And he did Subway Takes as a TikTok [00:31:00] series to start with because he realized that no one was doing TikTok shows, and his new show is a show called Keep the Meter Running, which he has done, on YouTube.

And I think what will be really fun to see is, so he was in development for quite a while, you know, just under a year, at CNN with this show, 'cause Keep the Meter Running is, is somewhat of a traditional travelogue. He gets in the back of a taxi, tells the taxi driver to keep the meter running and go wherever you want, and he, and, he talks with the taxi driver about the heritage and about history and, and other things.

And he decided to, get rid of the CNN development to just do it himself and do it on YouTube. And if that can be a hit, I think there'll be a lot of people who are thinking, "Well, why do I need to do this with a traditional broadcaster? Why do I need to go to a CNN or go to a cable network or even a, a streaming service a Netflix, an Amazon?

Because I can just control this. I can own this myself. I can do whatever I want. There's no [00:32:00] rules on length of episodes." And 

Justin Crosby: then I can license it. 

Peter White: And then I can license it. And I think, the success of something like Backrooms will be fascinating in the theatrical world, and I think Keep the Meter Running and Kareem Rahma If that pops you...

'Cause he's not young. You know, he's closer to my age than he is, uh, Kane Parsons' age. So I think the idea of, of new talent will, these are the opportunities for these platforms. And they're not really doing anything. They don't really have to do anything. You know, YouTube, the criticism of YouTube if you want, and I put this to Neal Mohan, the CEO, last week, I interviewed him, and I said, "You're really not, you don't have to do much 'cause people are uploading this themselves, and if it's a hit, you take credit for it."

Now, they will argue that what they are doing is the technology and, and the tech side of things, which, you know, as anyone who's ush- u- used YouTube knows, it is a pretty seamless experience. Yeah. Um, but they aren't investing. You know, they're long gone are the days of YouTube originals. They're just the home for these places, and they get the reflected glory.

Justin Crosby: Yeah. Yeah. And they get, uh, they get about [00:33:00] half the, uh, 

Peter White: advertising as well. 55 per- There you go. Yeah. Well, 45- 45, yeah ... 45% of the, the revenue, 55% going. And a- again, I said to Neal Mohan, "Could a company come along and say, 'You know, we're just gonna, we're gonna do a 75/25 deal,' and all those people will go?" And, and, you know, he seemed pretty chill about it.

And the reason he's pretty chill about it is he knows it's the biggest streaming service in the world. It is the biggest streaming service in the US. Netflix is desperate to be as big and have as, you know, the, the engagement numbers that YouTube does. So I can't see it going away. 

Justin Crosby: No, absolutely not. And, you know, you can imagine why Netflix are worried.

I mean, this is the attention war now, isn't it? And it's all about attention and YouTube's free. Yeah. And it's on, in everybody's, uh, front room now. 

Peter White: Yeah. 

Justin Crosby: Not everybody's, but you know, it's getting there. And who or what are you telling me to get in the bin? 

Peter White: I'm putting Spencer Pratt in the bin. I've come straight from LA where I ju- I voted, I posted my, uh, my ballot just before I left, and this is for well, in this instance, the mayoral race.

And I will not [00:34:00] say Karen Bass is doing a wonderful job as mayor, and not to get too political about it, but Spencer Pratt is very much his namesake. He is, he's basically a man who used to be very famous during The Hills. He seemed to spend all his money a few years ago 'cause he thought the world was ending as part of the Mayan apocalypse.

It turned out it didn't end, so now he needs to find more money and, and more popularity. And he's running this really... He's running a MAGA campaign. Whether he is as right-wing as, as the branch of the Republicans, who knows? But he's really not doing LA any, any favors 'cause it just makes us look daft that this guy is second in the polls and, and you know, he's quite frankly an idiot.

Justin Crosby: Okay. 

Peter White: So get in the bin, Spencer Pratt. All 

Justin Crosby: right. Okay, he's in the bin. Before I let you go I'm gonna ask you about SNL- 

... 

Justin Crosby: UK. 

Peter White: Mm. 

Justin Crosby: Obviously had a how many episode run? I think it, was it eight in the end? I think it was eight or 10, I can't quite remember. How was Hollywood viewing that?

You know, in terms [00:35:00] of... 'Cause obviously in the end, relatively small viewing figures on linear, it did pretty well on socials. But- You know, d- is that being perceived as a success? 

Peter White: I don't think anyone in Hollywood knows there is a UK version of Saturday Night Live. Having said that as a Brit who lives in LA who really did not think SNL UK would work, I was very skeptical because SNL is a very strange beast.

I don't watch it on linear because it's... I- it actually does air on Peacock, but what I do is much like everyone else's. I watch those clips, and because we are behind in terms of the time zone, on a Saturday evening I can throw up YouTube and it will give me some clips. And I tell you what, I can st- still hum that, uh, pub song that they did a few weeks ago.

And I think the thing that's done very well is the talent that's coming out of SNL. Now, here's the thing where I think Hollywood may pa- start paying attention. There are some clearly some very funny people on that cast, and I think what Hollywood will be paying attention to [00:36:00] is if any of those break out.

Because we all know that SNL is, over the years has been this, this place for talent to emerge out of and then become movie stars, and it has happened less than it used to. Yeah. But I think whether the British version can achieve something similar. I know some of the people on the SNL UK were slightly better known than perhaps new cast on the US version.

But I thought it was very funny, and I wish them all the best. In fact, the guy who's essentially the showrunner James Longman, used to be one of the executive producers of The Late Late Show with James Corden, so it has a little bit of, of that as well, and I know Lorne Michaels and Tina Fey and people like that spent a lot of time in London to get it right.

So yeah, while A- America might not be talking about it, I think they might be in, in future. I think the... I think there'll be some interesting things to come out of it. 

Justin Crosby: Yeah. Well, there's a second season of that on the way as well, isn't there? Yeah. Pete, thank you for joining me f- what, five years after the, uh, the first appearance on TellyCast?

So, uh- 

Peter White: Five, five and a half years later, so no, it's a pleasure, Justin. And it's [00:37:00] so... You know, I'm really pleased to see how, uh, how you're doing, 'cause I know this was a, a labor of love when you started it, and it seems to have gone from strength to strength, so, uh, well done, mate. 

Justin Crosby: Thanks, mate. Thank you, and, uh, should we go for a beer?

Peter White: We should go for a 

Justin Crosby: beer. All right. Let's do that. Well, that's about it for this week's TellyCast. Thanks very much for Pete White from Deadline for joining me. TellyCast was produced by Spirit Studios and recorded in London. We'll be back next week with another show. Until then, stay safe.