Wives Not Sisters

Queer Culture: Queer Ultimatum

• Kayla Nielsen and Alix Tucker • Season 1 • Episode 3

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Alex & Kayla break down The Ultimatum: Queer Love—from boundaries and exes to chosen family, romance, and what true compatibility looks like. Expect laughs, hot takes, and some real talk on queer representation in reality TV.

Timestamps

    •    00:01 | “This or That” game to kick things off

    •    07:36 | Why queer reality TV matters (even when it’s messy)

    •    15:22 | Boundaries, exes, and “open energy” in WLW relationships

    •    26:16 | The “cake” conversation: monogamy, polyamory, and doubt

    •    33:46 | Family acceptance, chosen family, and queer representation

    •    41:23 | Romance vs. real intimacy (bubble baths or secure attachment?)

Connect with us on social media: IG: @wivesnotsisterspod

Follow our hosts on Instagram: @kaylalanielsen @alix_tucker


SPEAKER_02:

Hey guys, it's Alex and Kayla. And we're married, not related, definitely codependent.

SPEAKER_00:

But in a cute way. And we are so excited to have you here with us again. We're back

SPEAKER_02:

again.

SPEAKER_00:

We are back. add it. And what do we have today? It is your turn to lead us. That means we're not doing the chit chat, the weekend recaps. We're just jumping straight in. I have a feeling

SPEAKER_02:

people are going to start asking for the weekend recaps. No, no,

SPEAKER_00:

no, no. Don't flatter yourself. We're not going to

SPEAKER_02:

give it to you.

SPEAKER_00:

You will never know what we're doing on the weekend ever.

SPEAKER_02:

Okay, honey, I have a game for us today. Okay, what do you got? It's called this or that.

SPEAKER_00:

Pretty straightforward.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, I'm not even going to explain it. Okay, honey, are you ready? I'm going to ask you some questions. questions and you're going to tell me which one you'd pick.

SPEAKER_00:

Okay.

SPEAKER_02:

All right. Accidentally liking your ex's Instagram from 2013. That is far back. Or send your mom a spicy meme meant for your friend.

SPEAKER_00:

Oh, I think my mom. I mean, how spicy? It's like I'm not sending my mom my own news or something. That's that would be then. No, a spicy meme. I know. Exactly. So I'm like the mom for sure. Oh, definitely.

SPEAKER_02:

2013. That's deep. But unless they're like not a poster you I was gonna say for you 2013 is like two

SPEAKER_00:

scrolls down okay

SPEAKER_02:

have to be friends with all of your exes or not be friends with any of them

SPEAKER_00:

uh not be friends with any of them 100% this is how you know I'm not a lesbian so

SPEAKER_02:

I am lesbian and I'm okay with not being friends with my exes

SPEAKER_00:

okay are you are you we're gonna get into that at some point I'm sure we'll talk about some of that

SPEAKER_02:

today I think okay date me my ex or live together post breakup?

SPEAKER_00:

Your ex? Yeah. Oh,

SPEAKER_02:

your. Date one of my exes. Or the ex. Or the ex. I mean. I mean, which ex? I mean, date one of my exes. The most recent ex. Yeah. Okay. Or live with me post breakup. You better fucking

SPEAKER_00:

pick me. I would absolutely pick you. I mean, unless you did. Unless living with you post breakup meant you were already with somebody new or something. That'd be awkward. I don't even know how I could possibly date that person. Can you imagine?

SPEAKER_02:

No, I don't think you could.

SPEAKER_00:

I would end up in jail. In jail? What would you do to her? It's like I would kill someone or like burn the house down or something. I don't know. It would not be good. She's a

SPEAKER_02:

good person.

SPEAKER_00:

I didn't say she was a bad person, but I'm saying we are very incompatible. I

SPEAKER_02:

think that's very true. Yeah. Okay. What about U-hauling in one month or less or wait five years to move in? I know what you're going to say because we

SPEAKER_00:

did it. Well, we are impartial to a U-haul over here. But it's like, is this for you or just in general? I don't know. You are such a U-Hauler. I am a U-Hauler. You've done that with everyone you've ever dated essentially. I made a lot of dudes into lesbians. I made them U-Haul with me. They didn't object. So I guess I'm a U-Hauler. You are a

SPEAKER_02:

hardcore U-Hauler. Prior to you, I would have been like always a wait five years to move in together. Because you've never lived with anyone, right? I did live with one person, but it was kind of like just based off the situation we moved to california together so it just kind of made sense but otherwise like i'm not a i'm not someone who lives with somebody else except for

SPEAKER_00:

you enter me okay

SPEAKER_02:

yeah you turned me into a lesbian too okay get matching tattoos with the new girl you're dating or have your ex find the sex playlist you're using with a new girl

SPEAKER_00:

oh i mean ah I think the sex playlist. I guess it would be hurtful to them, but I'm like, what are they going to do when they find it? Just be like, we found it. It's also

SPEAKER_02:

not that hurtful.

SPEAKER_00:

It depends how fast afterwards it's happening. This will obviously come into play later on in the conversation in today's episode. This is a little foreshadowing to the ultimatum. Yes.

SPEAKER_02:

Oh, I like this one. Girlfriend with a motorcycle or girlfriend with a Prius and rescue cats?

UNKNOWN:

Yes.

SPEAKER_00:

definitely motorcycle

SPEAKER_02:

yeah motorcycles are hot and they're gonna be a dog person

SPEAKER_00:

I can just tell you I was gonna say I I like cats question mark I don't know it's like I we have a cat we have a cat but I'm not a cat person

SPEAKER_02:

he's feral though and we like feral cats

SPEAKER_00:

yeah and I do like Subarus but the cat this is

SPEAKER_02:

a Prius not a

SPEAKER_00:

Subaru oh very different I just rewrote it in my head they're all the same to me yeah that's way okay for sure the motorcycle

SPEAKER_02:

okay I'm gonna give you two more issue an ultimatum to your partner and get them to propose or wait as long as it takes for them to do it on their own even if it's like 10 plus years uh

SPEAKER_00:

Well, I didn't have to do that to you. You kind of issued me an ultimatum. Oh, my God.

SPEAKER_02:

You issued me a timeline, which felt like kind of an ultimatum.

SPEAKER_00:

I didn't issue you a timeline. You issued me a timeline. I didn't say this is

SPEAKER_02:

your time. You're like, if we want to have a child by age this, then we have to get married by then. So basically, you need to propose to me next month. And we'd been dating for two months. Honey,

SPEAKER_00:

that is

SPEAKER_02:

not exactly

SPEAKER_00:

what happened. That's not what happened. We were simply doing math together, OK? We were doing math. And by the way, this timeline didn't work out because I'm 37, you're 38. We still don't have a kid. Okay, but the proposal timeline worked out in your favor. I was just talking about like...

SPEAKER_02:

And I even had to... I pushed the timeline back because the timeline was like, get engaged within like four months.

SPEAKER_00:

No, it wasn't. It was by the end of the year. And I didn't... An ultimatum would say, if you don't propose to me in this time, then I'm leaving you. That's an ultimatum. I just said, both of us wanted kids. We wanted them by a certain age. And that didn't work. work out so so you

SPEAKER_02:

won't

SPEAKER_00:

issue an

SPEAKER_02:

ultimatum

SPEAKER_00:

but you

SPEAKER_02:

will issue a timeline

SPEAKER_00:

I'm not issuing it I'm just we were having a conversation you issued it and I

SPEAKER_02:

followed it so I don't know who's the problem here but it might be me okay last one for you accidentally calling her wife too soon or accidentally texting I love you too soon

SPEAKER_00:

well you did both of those things I

SPEAKER_02:

did I literally did both of these immediately oh my god Do

SPEAKER_00:

you remember? I'm so embarrassing. We first started dating and we used to– we immediately started calling each other wifey, wife. I mean, you

SPEAKER_02:

were my wife

SPEAKER_00:

in an instant. Immediately. And it just– we just already were married. I don't know how to explain it. But we knew we sounded crazy. We knew this is– we can't say this out loud in public. People will judge us. They will judge us. We knew that

SPEAKER_02:

we would be judged.

SPEAKER_00:

We are judging ourselves from the outside. So this is like in private we would say this. And then I was– I had made this huge explosion in the kitchen. Remember? And I was– filming or you had done something happened in the kitchen and so I was like taking it on my story I was

SPEAKER_02:

filming you yeah

SPEAKER_00:

yeah and you were like why because you went to go say like what are you doing what my wife and then you realized you were filming and I was like oh my god everyone's gonna be like are you see that was six weeks into being together

SPEAKER_02:

yeah yeah we basically did all of these things

SPEAKER_00:

okay well that was fun okay those are good answers those well I mean you can't really I'm feeling really gay now that's That's the moral of the

SPEAKER_02:

story.

SPEAKER_00:

Feeling super gay getting into this episode, which is a good thing because today we have the Queer Ultimatum.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

Or is it really called Queer Love? I don't really actually know what the title is. I always see it different. It's like Queer Love Ultimatum. It's like the

SPEAKER_02:

Ultimatum Queer Love, I think.

SPEAKER_00:

Okay.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

So just so everybody knows, every month we're going to do an episode called Queer Culture, and we're going to cover whether it's a TV show like today or a book or a but we're really, we're getting into our roots. Where do we come from? Why are we the way that we are in our relationship dynamics? And something like the Queer Ultimatum, which is new, you know, there's a lot of talk about it and everybody's wanting to add their two cents about what they liked and didn't like and what they thought was important. So we're just chiming into that conversation. But most importantly, because this is a podcast about relationships, so we're going to be looking at relationship dynamics specifically through that lens of of being queer because it is there's some sameness as straight relationships and there's also a lot of differences so we really want to be able to point those out but most importantly okay and listen here everyone if you're like i didn't watch that show or that looks so stupid or i hate reality tv or i did watch it and i thought it was toxic because there's a lot of chatter online about how this show is not good for lesbians or you know doesn't make lesbians lesbian relationships look healthy.

SPEAKER_03:

And

SPEAKER_00:

I understand that. Like there's some truth in that because reality TV is supposed to be toxic. Otherwise, it's boring. So they're just doing their job, first of all. And people are also saying like, oh, it's fake and it's not, you know, not everybody was really in a deep relationship, all this stuff. It's like, again, that's reality TV. That has nothing to do with people trying to make gay people look worse because they're on TV. But I think that the most important thing to remember here is that we as queers are constantly like, we want more queer representation. We want more queer media. There's Love Island, you know, as a major example. There's huge reality dating shows and we're always like, why aren't there queer versions? So then they're like, cool, here's a queer version. And then what do we do? We complain

SPEAKER_02:

about

SPEAKER_00:

it. We're like, it's not good enough. I can't believe you would do that. We've

SPEAKER_02:

been literally wanting this for like 15 years and all we've gotten is Tila tequila. Nobody wanted that. Now we have the old made them which is this was a straight show first and now we get the queer version of it and we're like no this is not good enough

SPEAKER_00:

it's not good enough what you're making lesbians look bad and it's like it's not perfect but by the way the straight version isn't perfect either it's also toxic for all the same reasons the it's exactly the premise is toxic

SPEAKER_02:

but

SPEAKER_00:

it's an amazing

SPEAKER_02:

show and we're here to support our fellow queers

SPEAKER_00:

yes that's the thing it's like we need to support queers even if we think what they're doing is stupid and wrong we support queers rights and wrongs. Okay? Both of them. That's right. And if they want to be a trashy reality TV star, then we are there applauding them. Because if we're not doing it, then the straights aren't going to do it. So it's like we need to give them the numbers. Otherwise, the network is going to pull the show because they won't have the numbers. And then we won't get more shows. It's our duty. It's our duty. It's our duty to indulge. So we're here to

SPEAKER_02:

talk about it and dive in to all things queer ultimatum.

SPEAKER_00:

Yes. That

SPEAKER_02:

was an amazing rant, by the way.

SPEAKER_00:

I feel very strongly about this

SPEAKER_02:

yeah i do too i'm with you because i'm like i want more queer tv shows and queer dating shows and the only way that that's going to happen is if we all watch and celebrate

SPEAKER_00:

our well and this is one more thing on that is that it's like any of these people who are on this show they couldn't have signed up for something like love island or for you know another dating show because there isn't a queer version and it's like maybe the the premise is toxic and it's a little bit trashy and all this stuff but it's like if that's what they want to do then let them do it Do that. Thank you for serving us this entertainment.

SPEAKER_02:

Yes, let them fulfill their reality TV dreams.

SPEAKER_00:

Exactly. We're here for it. Because otherwise, they won't have that as an option, genuinely. It's like they'll make a YouTube, they'll make a podcast, they can make their own media, but they won't be able to be on TV. So let them be on TV. We need more queer media. Let them be toxic.

SPEAKER_02:

Okay, so we've talked about this a little bit, like the premise of the show. But basically the premise of the show is that couples come on and one person in the couple has issued an ultimatum to the other person. So they've all been dating for various lengths of time. And

SPEAKER_00:

a real ultimatum, meaning if you don't propose, I will leave. Not a timeline. At the end of

SPEAKER_02:

the show, you break up if you're not engaged, essentially, to your person, to someone else, right? And so that's the main premise of the show is you get an ultimatum. And so people will come on. And the way that the show works is that it's six weeks. And there's like one week of dating. where you actually go out and meet people beyond your partner. And part of what makes, I think, the queer version of the show so much better is because there's more options. So if there's six couples, there's 12 people, you can go out and date so many more people than basically having five people to pick from if you were in the straight version.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02:

And so the first week is you're actually dating other people to see what's out there. And then you make a commitment to somebody who's not your partner and you go into what they call a trial marriage.

SPEAKER_00:

Just the it's so funny how it's so serious like it's not just like oh then you partner up with this person it's like a trial marriage and you're

SPEAKER_02:

supposed to literally treat this person as if they are your spouse and you just met them like three days ago what amazing so you go into a trial marriage for three weeks after which you then go into a trial marriage with your original partner for three weeks

SPEAKER_00:

yeah so then you make a decision i think it's actually seven or eight weeks

SPEAKER_02:

total yeah yeah you're right

SPEAKER_00:

um but it's whatever it doesn't

SPEAKER_02:

really matter and so then at the end you've now experienced two trial marriages and you have to make a decision of like do you want to be with your original partner and get engaged do you want to be with the person that you partnered with who you didn't come to the show with or do you want to leave on your own

SPEAKER_00:

those are your only

SPEAKER_02:

choices that's right

SPEAKER_00:

yeah

SPEAKER_02:

very spicy yes gets dramatic quickly because you're immediately like dating other people well

SPEAKER_00:

yeah in front of your partner i feel like the the first thing that people think is like okay if you're supposed to treat it like a marriage at least it's is where my mind goes. It's like, does that mean you're having sex with them? Because that's what you do when you're married. Like there's obviously that level of intimacy. It's not just talk. I mean, we are lesbians. Yes, there's a lot of talking involved, but there's intimacy beyond that as well. And that's where, of course, most of the drama lies because those boundaries are murky and different for every couple that goes into it. So it's like, okay, there's all these loopholes of like, oh, it wasn't really cheating because I was in my new trial marriage and I'm just playing the game. I'm just playing the show this is what I'm supposed to do but it's like you're not yes you are technically broken up with whoever your person is that you came in with but ultimately you

SPEAKER_02:

came here to like decide if you're going to get married to that person so you might want to respect them throughout the process

SPEAKER_00:

yeah it's like you don't decide by just fucking it out with a bunch of different people and then you're like yeah I'm good actually I do want to get married but that's like the final

SPEAKER_02:

hall pass

SPEAKER_00:

yeah that happens sometimes and that's what makes it a great so

SPEAKER_02:

we're not going to go into like a deep dive recap style yeah but what we're going to do is we're going to pick out like the main themes that we really talked about because like when we watch these shows we basically do we will pause mid-show and we will debrief and we will go so deep on a theme

SPEAKER_00:

for example sometimes we even argue about it we'll be like no that's not true because they're this way we're like psychoanalyzing we get like we

SPEAKER_02:

get all upset so we're going to do that live essentially with you guys on the main themes that we kind of like debated yeah as we watch the show yeah okay so the first one is boundaries especially in a women on women relationship women on

SPEAKER_00:

women you put wlw and i'm like i don't know what wlw means we're changing it to wow dub women on women what is wlw even mean i don't get it honey women love women women loving women i literally always

SPEAKER_02:

read it as like women like wednesdays

SPEAKER_00:

oh

SPEAKER_02:

my god i don't know the least sexual thing i don't get it okay so do you like wednesdays female queer relationships especially I feel like have really, I've experienced some really interesting boundary situations.

SPEAKER_00:

Interesting is a generous, generous word. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02:

And so let's go into some of the things that we noticed around like some of the boundary challenges that we

SPEAKER_00:

noticed in the show. Yeah. Well, okay. So what's the first one that you have?

SPEAKER_02:

Okay. I think like the first one that I have is the concept of like having open energy. So you're in a relationship, but But the energy that you're giving out to the people around you is actually that you're open to flirtation or to potentially more. Especially Mel immediately is like, I'm open to you. And I think that created a lot of problems and a lot of insecurities in her partner immediately because I think Megan could sense that from her. And it gave– it created a lot of insecurity and panic for her, especially through the dating

SPEAKER_00:

process. It's so interesting too how you can see that through– like it doesn't even have to be through her words. It's that energy where it's like you can feel that and see that through a screen or the same way that if it's in person with someone, how you can just feel that openness where you're like oh you're if you're surprised to find out they're married or in a relationship it's because they're giving you

SPEAKER_02:

open

SPEAKER_00:

energy and it's not just because they're like yes it could be outright flirting sometimes too but it's it's so subtle but it's also so obvious

SPEAKER_02:

yeah

SPEAKER_00:

it was very a la vanessa season one ultimatum where it's like you're very excited to be here you are super stoked 100 but but obviously then megan ended up having that same open like once she kind of hit that wall then hers it turned because i felt like dana's was more open to the experience and that more hall pass kind of vibes is what i was getting for like just wanting to have fun and experience things whereas megan is more of like all or nothing she went from i want to leave this show having panic attacks to then like i love you to her trial person

SPEAKER_02:

yeah but i feel like she wouldn't have gotten there to the point where she would be open to somebody else if her partner didn't have that open energy and she could sense that from her Because it was like seeing that in her, she's like– it almost like created like a threat or an insecurity in her mind that she should go and pursue something else as well. I mean,

SPEAKER_00:

yes, but also she has to take responsibility for her own self. You know, it's like her partner can't– it's like she still could have decided, hey, you want to be open like that? I don't respect that. I don't fuck with that. And I'm not going to do that because, you know, like she still is responsible for herself.

SPEAKER_02:

Have you ever dated somebody and the person you were with– open energy or you had open energy oh yes

SPEAKER_00:

yes and

SPEAKER_02:

what how did that end

SPEAKER_00:

well here we are so didn't end well with them but yeah it is I don't know it's never it's and that's what I'm saying it's it can be so hard to point out to your partner because it is this energy it's not just like oh you said this direct thing to them and so it makes it really easy for them to gaslight you in return and be like that's not true you're being crazy I didn't even do anything oh I still have you know if you're married I still have my ring on you know whatever it is it's so easy to kind of override that and it's so easy for you to feel like okay maybe I was overreacting maybe I was being sensitive but No, if you feel that, it's real. It's

SPEAKER_02:

real. It's

SPEAKER_00:

real.

SPEAKER_02:

Okay, what about being friends with exes?

SPEAKER_00:

You tell me, honey. You tell me. Why are you putting me on the spot like that? Are you a little nervous? Well, now I am. I'm a little sweaty now, but I don't

SPEAKER_02:

know why.

SPEAKER_00:

What's happening? What's happening? What happened with your last ex? Well... We decided that we would be friends. Okay. Just in the truest lesbian fashion. You're like, we broke up and we decided we would be best friends forever. We didn't say that. Okay. But basically. We

SPEAKER_02:

said that like, yeah, we'll stay in each other's lives.

SPEAKER_00:

We'll be

SPEAKER_02:

friends.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah. And then I entered your life. And this is, okay, I don't, I actually do think you can be friends with an ex sometimes. I think it takes a very specific instance. I'm not somebody that's like always yes always no I think it's it's so individual for sure but in that specific case it wasn't as much where I was like I don't want you being friends with your ex it was like I've never heard actually anything great about this person and she hasn't treated you super well in the relationship or post relationship

SPEAKER_02:

yeah and she wasn't maybe being very respectful of our new situation

SPEAKER_00:

maybe maybe no she wasn't and And you were blatantly asking her like, hey, please stop in these certain ways. And she wouldn't. So there was just, yeah, not respect happening. But even beyond how she was being with us, she had been that way with you from what I had heard at least for a very long time. So my thing was more like, why do you want to be friends with anyone? Whether you dated them or not, why would you want to be friends with somebody that isn't treating you with respect?

SPEAKER_02:

What is it about lesbians where we're like, we have to stay friends with our exes? What is that?

SPEAKER_00:

I'm not a lesbian so I can't answer that for

SPEAKER_02:

you

SPEAKER_00:

because I

SPEAKER_02:

feel like in the straight world it's much more common to just be like yeah we're moving on unless you're like in the same friend group maybe that's what it is is because like

SPEAKER_00:

yeah some of it is just ease where you're like I don't want to make it weird for everyone

SPEAKER_02:

and so yeah you don't want to make it weird

SPEAKER_00:

I can see that or is it because we're

SPEAKER_02:

bad at boundaries

SPEAKER_00:

I think both because it's also like everyone is dating everyone the lesbian world is so small you know like worldwide but even once you're in your city assuming you don't leave that place once you break up then it's like you're gonna be circulating around each other you're probably gonna date the same people so it's easier to just be cool cordial but that's different than friends

SPEAKER_02:

yeah

SPEAKER_00:

it's different like best friends for sure different than best friends

SPEAKER_02:

yeah definitely so yeah not for me okay this is another one I feel like falls in the boundaries category but do you remember when Mel and Dana you get together and they're just like like you said they're like so excited they're they definitely have a connection and they have this like hall pass energy going on and this is something that i really hate when people say this oh no like oh we're gonna make bad decisions together vibe it's like it just like makes me want to roll my eyes so hard you're like you've now found this person where you can go and like cause trouble with and i don't know it's just

SPEAKER_00:

yeah

SPEAKER_02:

it just feels like we are two people who don't care about our relationships we're ready to cross boundaries and but we're gonna like make it this fun thing and like we're gonna cause trouble you

SPEAKER_00:

know it's like you're only driven by that yeah which it's like okay i mean i guess if you have some kink where you want this oh we're gonna get caught or like that's one thing do whatever you want but it's it's more when it's just like but you're doing that and it's you're hurting people yeah as a result but then you're also playing the innocent game like oh we're just following the rules of the show we're just you know and to me that was the thing that was annoying to them and I actually I don't think that Mel for I didn't see her having just hall pass energy I think she really liked Dana I think she had real feelings for her yeah she did and then Dana was the one that was a little bit more wild child like woo let's fucking do this and yeah I think it just came off as very it was very convenient too for them to be sort of like victim-y about it is what it felt like when they would get caught doing some of the weird stuff that they were doing and then they would be like oh but it's it's okay because and they would always have this loophole reason why but it's like but what you really want is to be this deviant little troublemaker you know I don't know it's just like if that's what you want then do that

SPEAKER_02:

yeah

SPEAKER_00:

follow through with it don't just be I don't know there was it kind of felt like a cop-out sometimes and I didn't like that

SPEAKER_02:

I don't know there's just

SPEAKER_00:

something about that energy

SPEAKER_02:

of like oh we're gonna like get in trouble and like you know i just i'm just like grow up i

SPEAKER_00:

don't know i just well to be fair they are children they're all in their 20s i don't know i don't know how old they're they're like 25 or something so that's very you know i'm like if i if my relationship was being filmed at that age i would be doing the same embarrassing shit that is for damn sure that is very and i will say i have this running list in my phone of x for guys and girls just like weird ones that come up because i'm always like oh i want to remember that my list for Ooh. Yeah. ew that is a hardcore egg it's just like seriously seriously get a better line that's no I don't probably have

SPEAKER_02:

used that line before

SPEAKER_00:

you 1000% have you probably definitely

SPEAKER_02:

my 20s

SPEAKER_00:

I can see that oh god I'm so embarrassed we're gonna get DMs from girls like Alex Tucker oh please

SPEAKER_02:

don't please don't DM my wife that oh my god you would love it speaking of boundaries please don't DM my wife

SPEAKER_00:

that

SPEAKER_02:

okay let's talk about the cake conversation okay because this was really interesting do

SPEAKER_00:

you have the i'm gonna should i read it yeah i want you to read okay

SPEAKER_02:

so this was a conversation that happened between kyle and pilar and i think it's just really interesting so i'll just read read it kind of like quote for quote okay so kyle says to pilar you're eating a good piece of cake are you sure this is good as you think it is yeah i am and pilar says but you're gonna eat that cake for the rest And Kyle's like, And Pilar says, You've only had bad cakes your whole life. And then you have a good cake and you're like, I'm going to eat this cake for the rest of my life. That sounds insane. You would want to try another cake. You'd be like, this is a great cake. I'm sure there's other great cakes. And now I want to try great cakes. I love cakes now. Kyle says, really? That's what you think? And Pilar says, if you were to simplify it like that, if something is bad and then you have one good thing and you're like, that's it. that sounds for a realistic person crazy. Does it not? And Kyle's basically like, no, I don't think so. If you have it and it's really good, why do you need another one? And Pilar's like, it's not that you need another one. Why is that the only one? How are you so sure?

SPEAKER_00:

What do you think about that? The last line is the one that gets me because I was very team Kyle up until the last point where I was like, oh, that's a different, because I was seeing it as like, why does it, the grass is greener you know where it's like why why is it not good enough that's immediately where my mind went and then she's like well no it's not that it's not good enough it's just like what about what what was exactly what she said it's not that you need another

SPEAKER_02:

one why is that the only one

SPEAKER_00:

yeah yeah so I was like oh that's I kind of get that but at the time when we were watching it what I said was I don't think this is I don't think this is a conversation about commitment or a an ultimatum I think this is a or about sexuality this is a conversation about polygamy or polyamory what's the difference polyamory polyamory like that's what it seemed more like that it's like oh maybe you're poly yeah and maybe this has nothing to do with your ability to commit that's what it sounded like to me at least I have no idea what she

SPEAKER_02:

well that was my initial take as well it was like it seems less about sexuality and more about like the concept of monogamy versus polyamory but then at the same time it's like I also understand because I've had the same experience right so I had I don't know three or four like major relationships before I met you no

SPEAKER_00:

you

SPEAKER_02:

didn't and they were all toxic and I think you had the same experience as well we basically just had toxic relationships and then we met each other and then it was just like beautiful and awesome and so it's like well but how do you know that like you wouldn't have other great relationships like this is just like the first time you had a great relationship but I don't know like for me at the end of the day it was just like at least with us I just found that It felt like it was like what I had been looking for my whole life. And now that I had it, I knew that I wanted that. And it wasn't– it didn't feel like a need to see if there was more out there. So I don't know.

SPEAKER_00:

Well, I feel like I can kind of relate too because you were the first girl who I've seriously dated or been in a relationship with. So it's like there's times– we talk about it all the time, you know, where I'll be like, oh, what do you think it would be like if I had been single and been out? And I

SPEAKER_02:

– I think you would have terrorized so many women. You would have broken so many hearts.

SPEAKER_00:

That's

SPEAKER_02:

what

SPEAKER_00:

I genuinely think would happen. Yeah, I just think– and we openly talk about that all the time. But at the same time, I don't want that. It's like I wonder just because it's like, yeah, my whole life would have been different if I was out before you. It's not just about hooking up with other people. It's not just about the sexual part of it or the relationship part. of it it's about my whole life would have been different you know if I had come out earlier so I kind of get that where it's like you wonder but at the same time wondering is different than doubt in my mind you know it's like I can wonder oh what would that have been like but that still never made me think maybe I shouldn't get married to you because I want to have other experiences

SPEAKER_02:

that's such a great point because the thing is when we met each other there was and still to this day there's never been a doubt in my mind that you're the person I'm supposed to spend my life with

SPEAKER_00:

yeah

SPEAKER_02:

and that's interesting because it's like she is in a way expressing doubt

SPEAKER_00:

yeah

SPEAKER_02:

um i think i mean that's how it sounds that's

SPEAKER_00:

how it sounds i don't know if that's how she feels but that's how i interpret it yeah and it's like okay to me that's where it's like well that's worth looking at that seems like a little bit of a red flag not that you have those feelings but for yourself if you're feeling doubt i don't know i'm sure there's people that have felt doubt got married and had a great happy life i just i don't know what that's like so I to me if I if I hear someone expressing doubt to me that feels like a red flag like ooh you should look at that maybe pause maybe don't get married you can keep dating but figure it out don't get married to try to override the doubt no that's the worst possible solution

SPEAKER_02:

yeah it was a really yeah it was a really interesting conversation

SPEAKER_00:

yeah

SPEAKER_02:

because just like Kyle was so sure she's just like no I know this is what I want

SPEAKER_00:

yeah yeah but I think and I think sometimes not just on this show but just in general there can be confusion between what is sexuality and then what is a relationship orientation you know and there's also assumptions where you know all queer people are poly or for sure all bi people are poly and it's just like none of those stereotypes are true they can be true some people might have those preferences but they're not always this way or that way so I don't know I mean she's obviously engaged now but hopefully it's something that she looks at it is interesting too because

SPEAKER_02:

for her I kind of understand where she's coming from because it's the first girl that she dated they've been together for like 10 years yeah they met at like 19 years old so maybe it is coming from that place of like wondering like you're saying yeah this is like the first person the first woman I've ever really been with like how do I know for sure but

SPEAKER_00:

which I mean even in a straight relationship if you met someone at 19 that's your first serious adult relationship and then that's who you ended up with I think it would be kind of crazy to not wonder. Genuinely. That's

SPEAKER_02:

true. Because like then if you're Kyle and let's say you're in your early 30s, you've had many relationships. It's a totally different experience than meeting someone at 19, being with them for 10 years. So I think that's just, yeah, it's like a lack of experience as well.

SPEAKER_00:

But it's like wondering versus doubting. What is that? And obviously, ideally, you have a healthy enough relationship. You could talk to your partner about it, express those things. Maybe you are comfortable having some openness in your relationship at a certain point or you know whatever however it is you decide to solve that but i would say just make sure you're talking about it at least instead of shoving it because i feel like otherwise that's how cheating can happen or you know all of that kind of stuff okay

SPEAKER_02:

let's talk about family acceptance and how it shows up in the show especially because there's a there's like a few instances where for example megan's family is like a very conservative lebanese family does not accept her They accept her as a person, but they don't accept the fact that she's queer and that she's going to one day marry a woman. Yeah. And then you have Pilar's family who I think she's like half Nicaraguan, half Filipina.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02:

And her family like does not accept their situation whatsoever. I think she said that she was in the relationship with Haley for eight years before she even told her family. Yeah. That is wild. Which is really wild. And so this concept of like the family acceptance and how that impacts like maybe you're your own self-acceptance, self-confidence, but then also your relationship with your partner. I think like there's a big theme here. Well,

SPEAKER_00:

the other thing too that I'll say, just kind of piggybacking off of the last point, is it makes even more sense if you were in the closet for eight years, you know, and then finally now you're out. And even if your family doesn't accept you, it's not what you would like from being out, but you're just able to fully be your true self. Then I can understand even more why you would be like, well maybe I want to have some other experiences before settling you know so

SPEAKER_02:

okay so one of the biggest points of feedback that people had about the show and I think people kind of bring this up a lot is like why can't we have like happy queer stories like why does this always have to be about trauma the trauma that we've experienced with our families and like you know are people even experiencing this type of trauma anymore because it's 2025 and it's so common So there's like a lot of negativity a little bit online, but it's still such a real part of our stories. It affects so many people. And so I'm curious like what you thought about that.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, so I think it's two parts. I think that what I see at least more is queer commentary coming in of we're sick of only trauma coming out stories. And most of that is revolved around families and acceptance, maybe religion. So that's what I kind of see from the queer side, more from the straight commentary I see like, that's not really true. That's not how it happens anymore. It's 2025. No one cares if you're gay. And yeah, I agree with you to where it's like, okay, the fact that there are 12 people on this show and two out of 12 of them, I can't do math, but you can, you can tell me what the percentage is. Two out of 12 of them have families that didn't accept them. That's, I would imagine probably even on the low end of a representation of what it is like still to this day in, I mean, we're talking about the States, this show, is American and everyone on there was American so yeah it's like I think that it is still important to showcase because it's it is very real it still happens all the time it is you know we've had experiences of this with our friends from me personally so yeah I think I think I can understand why queer people are like look we don't only want to have the sob stories we want to show the full spectrum of coming out and there's so many people that have great coming out experiences it doesn't always happen to be this like trauma porn you know but also

SPEAKER_02:

it's still so real yeah

SPEAKER_00:

you can't negate that you can't pretend like that doesn't happen anymore though because it definitely does so I kind of like that I mean I have no idea if this is why they chose people or not was based on these things but I felt like okay that percentage is probably pretty reflective maybe even lower than what how it actually is I

SPEAKER_02:

think it's it's nice to see the full representation yeah because it is like we said it's still so real it's still so many of us have to go through this at some point even if it's a short period of time with our families and and so for me i thought it was like really important also to see like that the full spectrum because you had some families which were extremely accepting like they were almost leaders in that way you had kyle's mom who oh my god you know gives a speech to to polar and you know in short kind of just tells her like you know, I understand like how hard this is for you, but just know that your parents are loving you through this, even though you may not have the relationship that you want with them at this time, like give them the space and time to hopefully come around and accept this. Like don't rule them out forever. And it was a, it was a, just a beautiful moment. So you have like that happening. And then you have like the experience of, of the folks who are, you know, having a challenging time with their families. And I think it's like, it's nice to see both and how people are navigating through that.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, I mean, something as queer people that we're constantly advocating for is representation. And, you know, in this case, we're talking about in the media. And so I think it is important to represent the whole picture, you know, where it is everything, the ultra allies to the total abandonment, you know, and everything in between. Because as a viewer, I was just thinking of this as you were talking, it's like, oh, I wonder how I would have felt if I would have seen a show where where that wasn't on there at all. I would maybe feel not represented, you know, like, oh, so just everyone's families is okay with this. That would actually be surprising to me if that was the case. And it's like, you don't obviously want someone else to go through that, but it can, it helps you feel as cheesy as it is. Yes, less alone and kind of validated and like, okay, it's not just a me problem and a me thing. And it can really add that feeling of community, you know, which is something that is so strong about our world and

SPEAKER_02:

yeah the other thing that it really hit home for me is like the concept and the idea of chosen family and why that's so important still today in our culture because not all of us have families that we're close to or that do love and accept us and for me it was watching the moment where Haley's dad so it's like Haley and Pilar are now back together and Haley's dad comes over and Haley had fallen in love with somebody else but he's been in Pilar's life for 10 years and he literally looks at her and he's like you know I know that you don't have parents who can be here through this experience for you but he's like I'm here just like for you just as much as I am for my own daughter and like she's just like it was a really emotional moment because it's it really highlights the importance of like having that love and support around you whether that's through your friends whether it's through you know your partner's family that having that chosen family it it just is such a central point to being queer

SPEAKER_00:

yeah and I mean just being human we literally need community we need love acceptance support and we it doesn't matter how old we are like we said we're 37 38 we still crave that approval and acceptance from our parents that is I think just biological it's ingrained in you even if you're like I know I will be okay without it but you you crave those kinds of relationships so yeah it was really it was definitely emotional to watch that and I And I am glad that they included all of that. To me, it didn't feel like, oh, they're just dramatizing the queer experience again. It felt to me like they were really showing the whole spectrum of it, and that felt important.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah,

SPEAKER_00:

me too. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02:

Okay, let's talk about romance.

SPEAKER_00:

Oh, God. I

SPEAKER_02:

feel like this might be a hot take because I feel like we're just not romantic people at all, or I don't know what it is. No, we're just elder queers. We're just married and romance is dead. No, but Marita and Brittany. So they're paired together kind of not by choice. They didn't necessarily choose one another, but were kind of like left over at the end. So they got paired together. And Marita and her relationship with her like original partner, Ashley, one of the things that she was really craving was romance.

SPEAKER_00:

And those were her words. She would say that all the time. I just want more romantic gestures, more romance, more romance. She's

SPEAKER_02:

like, I want flowers. I want bubble baths. Like I want like candlelit dinners, like all the cliche things that you think about when you hear romance. Valentine's Hallmark moment. Exactly. And so let's talk about like romance and how it showed up in the show for us. Because I think there's like a few interesting things where Brittany... Can we talk about the fork? No, let's talk about Brittany's daddy energy that she decides to bring.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, that was really cute. But can I say the fork thing first? Yeah, of course. Because... Because Marita was so desperate for romance. So Brittany– and Brittany had said– so this is tied into the daddy energy. She's like, okay. And both of them are femme. They both are, you know, very obviously femme and identify as femme and everything. So she's like, yeah, I'm going to bring her that daddy energy because that's what baby girl wants, you know? Like, let's do this. And it was so cute when she said that because it was just like, oh, like you just– in some ways, it's like even though you're bringing daddy energy, it was like very nurturing for her. motherly energy in my mind because it was like you just want to take care of her and make her happy and it was so cute but so she had made her dinner one night and literally all she did was hand marita a freaking fork she just said here like you don't have a fork here's a fork and marita was like oh thank you thank

SPEAKER_03:

you

SPEAKER_00:

oh my god and i was watching it like what like your bar it is in hell it is in hell that you someone just has to hand you a fork and you're like that was the cutest thing literally could have been

SPEAKER_02:

anyone who would hand you a fork and you'd be like

SPEAKER_00:

what how is that even possible that's all it takes yeah

SPEAKER_02:

yeah but i don't know i think it's interesting like watching their dynamic and watching britney meet marita's need of romance like she bought her flowers she you know made her dinner with like candles you know did like these really thoughtful gestures um for For me, it's just like really, I was like, is romance immature? I don't understand. Is this just something that I don't need anymore or what it is? But I just don't, like if you drew me a bubble bath with candles and then like puts flower petals on top, I think I would start laughing.

SPEAKER_00:

You'd be like, are you having a stroke? What is happening right now? But this was one of the moments we paused it and we had this whole conversation about romance because we were just like, I almost, yeah, I feel like romance is almost immature, but it's not that romance is it's those quintessential acts are because it's like what do you really want like what is the motivation behind that what is the need that is being fulfilled which i think is like you want you

SPEAKER_02:

really want real intimacy and connection which for me doesn't show up through those types of acts if you will of like giving flowers or something for me it's like it's really through the connection with another person and sharing of a life with another person

SPEAKER_00:

yeah i okay so this is something because it's It's like love languages are real. We know that. I am an acts of service girly. So you're saying, you know, you're like, I don't get it through the acts, but you, I don't, to me, the acts, it's, it's more like you emptied the dishwasher. You like took something off my plate. You helped me out. Girl, I am romantic

SPEAKER_02:

every

SPEAKER_00:

day then. I took out the trash. Exactly. It's like that stuff. It's like, oh, I didn't

SPEAKER_02:

wipe out my crumbs today though. So I feel like that

SPEAKER_00:

may have sparked anger in my

SPEAKER_02:

life.

SPEAKER_00:

But also I, gifts is really low on my for receiving, but I love giving gifts. I love finding the perfect gift and making it super personalized and then really having that be this representation of my love and appreciation for that person. So it's like I get it to a degree, but it's just like And maybe it's just that it's like not creative. Like this is how we're going to be romantic is through roses and chocolates. And it just feels like, what do you really want out of that though? You know what I mean? A hundred percent. And I don't know. And maybe this is a maturity thing that they don't know how to articulate that yet. Maybe they don't know what they want yet. Maybe they're not sure what they're looking for, but it just felt like, dude.

SPEAKER_02:

Because the thing is, is like, I understand wanting that romantic spark feeling, but that's not going to come from somebody giving you flowers in my opinion that's going to come from the way that somebody makes you feel yeah and that's going to come through like deep connection and intimacy and building that bond with another person and more so than like i got you chocolates and a card what

SPEAKER_00:

no yeah and it's just like the most romantic thing that you can do is provide secure attachment style to your partner or be in a securely attached relationship don't you love i would tap for you watch out but yeah I feel like that to me and maybe this is just a sign of our honesty our elder years I'm so with

SPEAKER_02:

you the most romantic thing you can do for your partner is provide a safe space for a secure attachment

SPEAKER_00:

yeah

SPEAKER_02:

amen

SPEAKER_00:

to that hot hot as fuck that is the

SPEAKER_02:

sexiest thing that you can do in a relationship yes I'm a little hot and bothered right now oh my god relax okay I love that one okay what about let's talk about the concept of like expectations needs and wants and compatibility in a relationship and how these things kind of like come to fruition in the form of like whether you are compatible or not with somebody potentially

SPEAKER_00:

well I feel like this is perfect after the whole Marita Brittany thing because the thing with Marita and Ashley her original partner it's hard to say because there is editing and producing and we don't really know these people right but it and so I don't want to say that we one was right or wrong it seemed like they were just incompatible they were not compatible marita wanted romance and what it appeared it appeared that ashley based on what she said was you know i'm doing my best i'm giving you everything i can and it's not good enough so then she just didn't really have that motivation to keep trying and so then it started feeling like she was actually like withholding any sort of romance or just like kind gestures like she wouldn't have handed that fork to her she would not have handed her that fork because she just and I don't love that but I also kind of get it because it's like I do understand if you're trying super hard and someone is still like not good enough not good enough not good enough then you're like then what's the point of trying you know I've done that

SPEAKER_02:

before I've definitely I call it

SPEAKER_00:

yeah you've done that to me you've done that to me in

SPEAKER_02:

therapy I call it like we call it like me being a rebel essentially it's like when you feel like you are giving everything you can to somebody you're you're going above and beyond you feel like you're doing it but it's not maybe in the ways that they want or need which is why like you said you know the what is it called the love languages is so important yeah because if you're giving love in the way that you want to receive it not the way your partner wants to receive it they don't even see it you feel like you're giving them everything how could i possibly give you more and then you're giving me feedback that i'm not enough right i'm like how is that even possible yeah and so that naturally makes you feel like well I'm just gonna rebel now I'm just gonna not I'm not gonna give you that thing which is not the healthy response

SPEAKER_00:

yeah

SPEAKER_02:

but I think that that is what's happening with Ashley because she's like I'm being such a good partner to you and you don't even notice the ways that I am showing up for you and you just only criticize me and telling me the things that I need to do differently it it I think for people it doesn't feel very motivating because you're not being recognized for the work you are putting in

SPEAKER_00:

yeah yeah and I mean probably I would venture to guess most couples on this show are actually not super compatible I'm like trying to think about it I don't know who maybe Kyle and Bridget are the most compatible it seems yeah but I think a lot of them it's like yeah you're neither one is a bad person or a good person and maybe even at least I've had this experience too where I've had toxic relationships where I have been toxic as fuck the person I've been with has also been super toxic and then together the third entity that is the relationship is also toxic but I've had relationships where I feel like individually we actually were okay like we're good people we're not doing bad things to each other but the it was like when you bring us together it is toxic and that third entity that relationship is toxic you know and I don't know I think that that can be really common too where it's like someone just because the relationship isn't good doesn't mean the other person's a narcissist doesn't mean they're a sociopath all of these words doesn't mean they're gaslighting might just not be compatible exactly

SPEAKER_02:

I had a girlfriend where she literally wanted to be with people 24-7. Like her ideal situation was like always having a friend group around. And so we really didn't have a lot of one-on-one time. This went on for years. And I'm a very like, I want one-on-one time with my partner. I'm like, let's go out with friends. And alone, just totally alone too. Let's go with friends once or twice a week. But like, I want the core of our dynamic to be one-on-one. Quality time. Whereas for her, it was, I want to be with people all the time. That's what makes me happy. And like, having you there with me makes me happy. We were just fundamentally not compatible and it caused so many problems in our relationship. Whereas if she could just be with somebody who wanted that same thing as her and I had somebody who wanted the same thing as me, we'd be so much happier.

SPEAKER_00:

But it's also, it can be confusing because sometimes I've, I mean, all of my other relationships ultimately weren't compatible. But then you also get this messaging of relationships are hard. Don't quit. You have to compromise, you know? So it's confusing when you're young and navigating this of like how do i compromise without losing myself you know how do i compromise and also still have needs that matter you know but how do you feel

SPEAKER_02:

like women fall into that even more so like especially so it's like two women in this relationship both fighting so hard to make it work because we're told as women to like

SPEAKER_00:

make

SPEAKER_02:

others make others happy comfortable and to like yeah like compromise

SPEAKER_00:

in a

SPEAKER_02:

relationship to make

SPEAKER_00:

it work probably probably yeah I think I I mean I can only speak from my own experience and I definitely felt that where things would be hard and I'd be like well it's okay relationships are supposed to be hard and I don't even agree with that I don't think relationships are supposed to be hard I think they can have hard moments but it's more like they are work but ultimately it should actually be easy I think yeah I mean we still have a long ways to go but there should be peace in the relationship there should be peace and ease and there will be hard moments, but it's not supposed to be this uphill battle. No. It's not how it's supposed to feel. I did not understand that when I was in my 20s. At all. At all. I thought I was doing the right thing. I was like, oh, you just have to fight harder. Yeah. That's what you have to do. You can't quit. You can't give up. And I must just keep accepting this bullshit that I hate because otherwise- Let's normalize quitting

SPEAKER_02:

when we're not compatible.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02:

Please.

UNKNOWN:

Please, God.

SPEAKER_02:

Okay. What about the types and the labels that you see in the show? like for example we had Brittany and Marita like you said before two femmes ended up in a couple together and that wasn't necessarily their natural type if you will they both you know their original partners were more masc and you kind of like see that concept throughout the show and obviously in queer culture like how types and labels play out

SPEAKER_00:

it's so interesting because I think there's again two parts like I always see things from both sides I have a ton of straight friends and I have some queer friends and I was also thought I was straight for most of my life so it's like I feel like I have both sides of my brain that are always on where it's like straight people really want to understand that you know like but how could you like someone who is a woman if they look like a man and it's like just because they have short hair that doesn't mean they are a man just because they have short hair they wear pants or like how could you like someone that looks like that like if you like people that look like that then why don't you just date men or you know there's so many questions because straight people don't typically express their gender identity the same way that queer people do

SPEAKER_03:

and

SPEAKER_00:

they don't there's not a lot of fluidity there whereas I think like queer people are more comfortable being like yeah I felt really masked at this time and now I'm like growing my hair out and trad wiping it up you know whatever these things and I feel like we feel more comfortable with that there tends to be to be more fluidity in the expression. But I think some people are still very fixed on their type, which I don't think is inherently right or wrong. It's like it's no different. You like what you like. You like what you like. In a straight relationship, you can have a type. You could be into blondes or into, you know, I think it's fine. Like whoever you like. I personally can't really relate because I feel like I just like people and then they look however they look. You know, it's like I can like all different kinds of people. so I don't understand it's like I understand it to the best of my ability but yeah I think that that identity piece is really interesting in queer culture because it is this core component where people can really identify with femme for femme or I will only go for masks or I will only go for non-binary people whatever it is you know

SPEAKER_02:

and I think what's cool about the show though is like like you were saying about the the fluidity and like what you're attracting I think one of the nice things is when you're in these trial marriages, maybe it's maybe the person looks differently than your normal type, but they're able to meet your needs in different ways and that gets explored. And I think that's really like unique and interesting where it's like, well, maybe I never thought I'd date a femme, for example, in Brittany and Marita's case, but like she's actually giving me this romantic energy that I really wanted. And now I know that's something I, it really reinforced her need for that. And so it's like being able to explore those dynamics with different types of people I thought was really cool.

UNKNOWN:

you

SPEAKER_00:

did you just see my face have a really weird yeah as we were talking i just realized they need a queer love is blind for exactly that reason so that it's like you're talking to somebody and you're meeting them as they are without knowing how they necessarily i not identify but how they present yeah

SPEAKER_02:

because that would be really that's why my face and you know what's so interesting too i'm so with you on this because first of all a Especially the women. Us women really like to talk. I mean, how about a stereotype for female queers? It's like, we love to talk. So I, and the other thing is we can fall in love in two seconds. Yes. through talking alone the whole love is blind concept would work so well for female queers i think

SPEAKER_00:

see this is why we need to support queers in the arts aka reality i think it would

SPEAKER_02:

blow people's minds to watch that happen without like for the same reasons

SPEAKER_00:

but also the participants to be like oh my god i thought i only liked people who looked this certain way because that's that's so different than just how you look like this is your identity expression it's different than the straight version where it's like oh you actually are this size or whatever because

SPEAKER_02:

like in the straight love is blind oh my god I'm so glad you brought this up what you see often play out is that they will fall in love without seeing each other then they meet each other and they're disappointed yeah in the way the other person looks

SPEAKER_00:

yeah

SPEAKER_02:

and I think actually that that wouldn't happen with queers in a way because When you fall, my experience of queers is like when you fall in love with somebody and also because we're women, I think we're more open to a wider range of expression than straight people are. I agree, for sure. 100%. And so I think you wouldn't see that as much.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah. I think it could be conflicting to your own maybe sense of self and identity of whether it was the Brittany Morita thing, for instance, you know, if they're like, well, I've only been with masks and now I totally fell for a femme and that how is that going to change the dynamic of our relationship you know it could be confronting that way but that's it doesn't have anything to do with how they look it's more about how they are and showing up in their energy in the relationship but I mean Netflix take notes we need women loving women not women loving Wednesdays love is blind okay

SPEAKER_02:

hell yeah okay one last topic we start before we start to wrap things up is this concept of like having success before settling down and not something that AJ really expresses with Brittany that's one of the reasons why she's not ready to settle down is because Brittany has had so much success in her career I think she opened up her own med spot and AJ just isn't where she wants to be yet with with overall success and I really see this show up a lot in straight relationships like a lot of you know my female friends are in straight relationships you know the guy will be like I'm not ready to settle down yet because I don't feel like I'm I've achieved the success I need to to take care of family and so you really see that play out and i thought that was really interesting that aj was expressing that in a queer relationship have you have you seen it in

SPEAKER_00:

any queer relationships i haven't seen it as much i am trying to think i don't feel like i have either but i also think it's like if you like let's say i was even more successful you know i'm like normal amount of successful but like let's say i was somewhere off the charts and i met you I could see you feeling that way. I think I would feel that way. You would definitely feel that way.

SPEAKER_02:

Because I just have it so ingrained in me that it's like, I am the provider. I'm going to take care of my family. That is like my duty. I feel that so strongly. And I think that's something you find attractive in me. And I think if that was like flipped, I would be like, what is my purpose? What is my duty? And I don't know why I feel that so inherently. It just is like a part of who I am. But I think it would make me feel... A little insecure.

SPEAKER_00:

But even I feel that a little bit, you know, like I also I don't have the same sense of, oh, I need to be the provider. But I have never been someone that's like, oh, cool. Now I'm I married to somebody who has a certain job and I can have this lifestyle and I'm just going to kick back. And that's not me at all. It's like I also like providing for our family. Yeah. You know, so I can. And even once I when we first got together, being with somebody who was so successful and so motivated. it pushed me, it's like, oh, I want to be better and bigger and more too, you know? Not in like a competitive way, but it was just like this kind of, I guess, I don't know if inspiring is the right word, but something like that. And so I get that if you're feeling, I think, yes, ideally our worth is not tied to our paycheck, but that happens. It's happening to me. I know that firsthand. So I can understand if you were with somebody who was super successful and you're feeling like, oh, I don't know if I'm worthy of you. Like that's essentially what it is. It's like, I don't know if I'm worthy of being with you because they're equating their worth with how much they're making. Yeah. It's really what's happening.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, it was interesting too because Brittany's like, that's not what it's about for me. I just want you to be who you want to be and have your purpose fulfilled. And Brittany

SPEAKER_00:

has that daddy

SPEAKER_02:

energy.

SPEAKER_01:

She's got that daddy energy.

SPEAKER_02:

Okay. And reunion. Yeah, hitting the reunion really quick. we need to talk about the hosting situation of the show.

SPEAKER_00:

Netflix, again, listen up. Why the hell do we not have a queer host? Literally why? For me,

SPEAKER_02:

it's more that If you're not gonna give us a queer host, then you should give us the same host that you have for the Straight Ultimatum, which is A-list celebrities. Are they A-list? That is so generous. Is Nick Lachey A-list? But like celebrities of a certain caliber, right? It's not like you gave us Mariah Carey or Ariana Grande or someone, some straight person who's like, you know. He's queer. We would take Ari. I'm just saying, you're not giving us some very famous straight celebrity. You're giving this person, does anyone know who this is? person is is she famous i don't think so

SPEAKER_00:

look it's not her fault i don't want to bash her i feel bad for her you know it's netflix it's like you wanted to differentiate the show and say look this is the queer version it is the exact same show premise everything is exactly the same but we're gonna make it different here's a new host they're not queer and it's like what but we want alice yes okay we want shane i don't remember what her last name is mccutchen okay but we this is who we want we need leisha haley leisha haley was destined for this role needs to give the people what they want please we need it but so in the reunion aj has this moment where she says to the host like i don't remember the exact quote but something along the lines of thank you for being the host and i don't know aj it felt like she was kind of just ass kissing but whatever it

SPEAKER_02:

definitely felt like that

SPEAKER_00:

you know she's like thank you for being the host for us because you being a straight person essentially like you're a bridge you're a bridge in what

SPEAKER_02:

what did she say she said that essentially she's a bridge to other straight people to like for us to get acceptance from the straight community

SPEAKER_00:

and so some people loved that i personally am like why do we have to have acceptance from straight people in order to be valid okay why stop doing those finger taps i'm

SPEAKER_02:

gonna come for you

SPEAKER_00:

but i don't know it's i didn't like that

SPEAKER_02:

i didn't like that either

SPEAKER_00:

I felt like that was really not doing what she thought it was I understand

SPEAKER_02:

where she's coming from in the sense of like oh now my parents see this straight person accepting us and you know hosting the show for us but we don't need we don't need that to be accepted

SPEAKER_00:

yeah so I really hope that they have a different host for the next time

SPEAKER_02:

yeah and then okay really quickly let's hit on the audience reaction like what people what we're hearing So people like it better than the straight version.

SPEAKER_00:

And yeah, straights. The straights are saying this too. Yeah. That they're like, it's so much better. There's a few reasons. One of them being, like you said, we fall in love very easily and it is real. That shit is real. It's heightened because you're in these condensed conditions and all that kind of stuff. But that is a pretty representative of real lesbian life, I would say, where you could definitely fall in love with somebody. We go deep quick. In a three week

SPEAKER_02:

period. And people were so impressed by the communication skills of these women most of who are in their early 20s and their communication skills are top notch

SPEAKER_00:

where they're just talking about exactly what their needs are their feelings how they got to that point just how you made me feel everything that actually just reminded me of the sex dungeon bed in Megan and Haley's room they had a plush red velvet crushed red velvet headboard and they had having these super serious heartfelt conversations in a sex dungeon. We're in your sex dungeon watching this happen. Are you

SPEAKER_02:

tied

SPEAKER_00:

up right now? What's happening? Weird choice, Netflix. Like, what is this setting? I don't understand. But yeah, a lot of people said that they really liked it for that. They also liked the same thing that you said, how in even just the dating process, because everybody is fair game. If in the straight version, you have half of the people to to choose from whereas this inevitable like already it created more drama right off the bat AJ had like five

SPEAKER_02:

girls interested in her which is like okay swaggy but it was it made it much more interesting in the dating dating scenario because it's like okay you have you have more to choose from and more to connect with

SPEAKER_00:

and then the queer reaction like I said I've seen honestly a lot of negative stuff and it makes me super bummed it makes me really sad because it's like I think something that is a part of current queer culture like woke queer culture that we see right now is a lot of perfectionism you know it's like we're focused more on perfection than progress and progress would be recognizing we finally got a queer dating show this is amazing we've wanted this forever perfection is why is it not good enough why is it still toxic why are these certain points there and it's like you guys also all of the things you're complaining about happen in the straight version too they're not just painting lesbians to look bad this is the premise of the show is toxic they're not trying to make queers look worse it's you know so it bums me out when I see stuff like that because it's just like if we're not supporting each other then it's gonna be hard to get the straights to do it because we we need to be on these mainstream channels to get the kind of numbers to stay alive do you know what is toxic what

SPEAKER_02:

the fact that the straight version of the ultimatum all these people end up going on podcasts like the vile files hello nick vile why is the queer version why are these cast members not on your podcast exactly are they not interesting enough are they exactly too gay for you like he probably didn't watch it of course because it's not interesting enough for straight people to watch

SPEAKER_00:

what i don't understand exactly it was even better all the straight people who watched it agreed it was even better and it's not just him it's all of the big pop culture podcasts don't cover The queer version. We're coming for you,

SPEAKER_02:

Nick Viall.

SPEAKER_00:

We're coming for you. And also, you see that even reflected in the Instagram kind of following and stuff after. The straight version, people on the straight ultimatum.

SPEAKER_02:

Hundreds of thousands of followers.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, and on the queer one, it's like very much a slow burn.

SPEAKER_02:

Like 20, 30K, something like that. So we need to support our people.

SPEAKER_00:

That's the moral of the

SPEAKER_02:

story. And, you know, we want to see them on big podcasts as well after the show.

SPEAKER_00:

Like maybe this one.

SPEAKER_02:

okay honey let's hit who's the problem

SPEAKER_00:

well my guess is you you are the problem why am i always the problem okay no this i think this is this is a real one okay on our periods yeah big breath we sometimes sync up sometimes we don't when we're not synced up i think it's fine we we definitely have different needs okay you on our i said you on our period you Are we enmeshed? I don't know. We just have one period together. So you on your period, you want to unzip my skin and live inside of it. Like you want to be one with me. I want to be held. I want to be loved

SPEAKER_02:

and adored. I want to be kissed on the face nonstop.

SPEAKER_00:

But you also want to give that to me. You don't just want me to give you affection. You really want to give it to me actually is what I notice more. No,

SPEAKER_02:

no. It's because you're not giving me affection. So I have to give it to you because I want it so much. desperately

SPEAKER_00:

me in my period I am like a hedgehog like the spikes just pop out and it's like you cannot get within a certain few feet of me even if you look at me a certain way I'm like what why why are you looking at me like that like what it's just so it could not be more opposite so it's like yes I know neither one of us are a problem this is just different needs on different periods but I would like to know the audience which one are you are you the hedgehog like me like a little prickly pear or are you alex who is just so cute and lovable and so sweet and perfect but the real problem i think is just thinking the period

SPEAKER_02:

that is the real problem because if we're not and it is a real thing

SPEAKER_00:

it's a very real thing

SPEAKER_02:

yeah i'd rather be unsynced i know some people would rather be synced up but i'd rather be unsynced so i can get my cuddles oh i'm so pathetic okay who's your problem it's not you this week that's right so mine is um every night we go for a walk together we've been doing this for years together yeah we go on two to three miles every single night and you know we have a really nice little path that we'll walk on and my thing is when owners let their dogs poop in the middle of the path and they don't pick it up that's option one

SPEAKER_00:

obviously a problem

SPEAKER_02:

obviously a problem and super annoying. But option two is the people who pick it up in their little green little baggies that they use and then they just put it at the edge of the path. Or in the middle of the path. Leave it there. And those bags, even though they say they're compostable, they're definitely

SPEAKER_00:

not compostable. No. I've never seen one compost away. So I'm like, why

SPEAKER_02:

would you

SPEAKER_00:

do that? Yeah. I don't know why you would want to have just a hot bag of shit on the ground. I'd rather it

SPEAKER_02:

just decompose.

SPEAKER_00:

1,000%. But

SPEAKER_02:

why are you doing that? I don't understand. I know that they're saying like, I'm going to come back and pick it up at the end of my walk, but you never come back.

SPEAKER_00:

It's still there.

SPEAKER_02:

You never come back. It's there weeks later. And at

SPEAKER_00:

that point, you're just littering. Because it's like, if you poop, it's rude. It reminds me of that sound. Pretty fucking rude, you know? But it's like, yeah, if someone is just, not someone, but a dog, if a dog is just pooping, I mean, I guess that's probably also litter. But why would you, just don't even involve a plastic bag. Why? Why? I agree. The problem is the bag people. It is the bag people. And that's all I got. All right.

SPEAKER_02:

Thanks, guys. We did it. We love you. See you next week. See you next week.