Wives Not Sisters
A playful, unfiltered podcast where a married wlw couple dives into the chaos of modern relationships, pop culture, queer lore, and all the little things most people wouldn’t admit out loud.
Wives Not Sisters is a queer-led podcast where marriage meets humor, honesty, and a little too much sharing but in the best way. We’re here to normalize nuance in relationships -- from romantic, platonic, familial, and everything in between- and to create a space where deep conversations and dumb jokes can coexist. Through real talk, playful debates, and just enough oversharing, we’re building a community that’s reflective, ridiculous, and radically relatable.
Wives Not Sisters
Our Queer Fertility Journey: IUI, IVF, Pregnancy Loss, and Choosing Surrogacy
In this episode of Wives Not Sisters, Alix and Kayla unpack the “propaganda we’re not falling for”—from self-help catchphrases to fitness influencers and even avocado toast—before diving deep into their three-year fertility journey. They share candidly about choosing a sperm donor, navigating IUIs and IVF, pregnancy loss, and ultimately turning to surrogacy. Honest, funny, and vulnerable, this episode is a must-listen for anyone curious about queer family building, fertility challenges, or simply enjoying heartfelt conversations on love, resilience, and partnership.
⏰ Timestamps:
00:01 – Intro & what we’re not falling for
04:16 – Fitness influencers & unrealistic promises
06:46 – Heterosexuality as “propaganda”
08:35 – Avocado toast and Mercury retrograde
12:38 – Eight-step morning routines & mouth tape
13:11 – Beginning our fertility journey
15:15 – Choosing a sperm donor
23:43 – Painful procedures & women’s health advocacy
33:14 – Costs and realities of IUI
38:34 – Shifting to IVF and mental health challenges
53:10 – Pregnancy loss and moving forward
58:29 – Choosing surrogacy over adoption
01:02:06 – Strengthening marriage through challenges
01:04:57 – “Who’s the problem?” popsicle edition
Connect with us on social media: IG: @wivesnotsisterspod | TikTok: @wivesnotsisterspod
Follow our hosts on Instagram: @kaylalanielsen @alix_tucker
Hey guys, I'm Alex. And I'm Kayla. And we're married, not
Speaker 00:related, definitely codependent. But in a cute way. Definitely a cute way. And we're so excited to have you back here with us once again. Welcome. Welcome. Back at it. So this week, it's your turn to lead. That's right. That's right. We're not going to talk about our boring weekend. We're not going to talk about all the chit chat that no one cares about. We're just going to get into
Speaker 01:it. I had an exciting weekend, so maybe the people want to know, but you guys still get to find
Speaker 00:out.
Speaker 01:Okay. Gatekeep that weekend, honey. This week, we're going to be talking about propaganda we're not falling for. Okay. Which is a very hot trend at the minute.
Speaker 00:No, it's not. That was a hot trend. like months ago i don't know things about the
Speaker 01:internet
Speaker 00:you are basically living on a facebook timeline at this point you're quasi a boomer practically i don't know anything but we're gonna
Speaker 01:be talking about propaganda so okay i want to know three things that you're not falling for
Speaker 00:okay let me pull out my list because my brain is a little foggy today so
Speaker 01:is mine i hope i remember mine
Speaker 00:i hope I remember who I am and like what is happening okay so the first one is let them you knew I was gonna say that
Speaker 01:gosh you've been talking about this
Speaker 00:for months don't even get me started on let them better yet don't get me started on Mel Robbins like I can't I can't handle any of it
Speaker 01:why why are you so riled up about the let them thing
Speaker 00:okay i will say that the idea of let them is essentially repackaged stoicism i'm on board with that i'm on board with stoicism you're
Speaker 01:a stoic
Speaker 00:am i
Speaker 01:i don't know but
Speaker 00:i think you want to be one i would like to channel my rage into peace that is for sure so i you know i try to read some stoic stuff now and then but i don't know like the I feel like we could literally do a whole episode on this maybe we will how and it's not just Mel Robbins I think this is in general big big figures of I don't know if you want to call it personal development spiritual development it could be both either or where they make these blanket statements that are like oh this is the formula this is the formula to how to improve your life no matter what and there's just no nuance there immediate red flag
Speaker 01:because
Speaker 00:if life was that easy then I think we would have figured it out by then like if this one formula could just apply to everyone in every situation at all times wouldn't wouldn't we have figured that out already you think you're trying to tell me that you figured out how to make everybody happier and healthier feels a little
Speaker 01:bypassy
Speaker 00:super bypassy
Speaker 01:yeah
Speaker 00:and I think it can also make people it can be an easy excuse to be like oh it's not my problem you know kind of apathetic to that point of just like it's not my problem And
Speaker 01:almost like not engaging in your own life
Speaker 00:in the way that you like should. you are correct maybe I should okay maybe she covers all the nuance but usually like when there's these huge moments and this whole movement that happens then most people aren't reading the book and a lot of that gets lost and kind of watered down so
Speaker 01:yeah
Speaker 00:I agree with
Speaker 01:you okay coming for Mel Robbins this week I love it
Speaker 00:okay so number two I'm already heated I told you I need to channel my rage into
Speaker 02:piece
Speaker 00:so this is another one that is related to online figures okay i think it's i'm gonna say the girlies even though guys definitely do this too i'm talking about the fitspo world the fitness influencers okay and i'm just saying the girlies because that's i follow girls i don't follow male influencers period but especially yeah i mean enough said but girls who it's like you have the six pack or you have the nice ass or you might have a banging body okay that doesn't mean that if somebody does your program they're going to look like you
Speaker 01:no
Speaker 00:and it's like using your body as a way to be like oh you want these abs i can do that for you it's like can you share your genetics with them i don't think so it just doesn't work like that it's
Speaker 01:literally like 90 genetics
Speaker 00:exactly and it's like yes and i guess probably nutrition also comes into play i I'm saying like nutritionists can also do this sometimes where they're like really using their body to sell certain programs. And I'm just not falling for it. I'm like, you look amazing. I'm not saying that you don't. But I also know if I do your ab program every single day, five million times a day, my abs are never going to look like that. Like they're just not. So not falling for it. I
Speaker 01:love it.
Speaker 00:you're gonna like number three i don't even need to look at my phone for this one
Speaker 01:okay what is it
Speaker 00:and this isn't a joke this sounds like it's a joke it's not i'm not falling for heterosexuality okay i know this is a queer podcast yes and i'm not just saying like oh we're gay and so we don't believe in being straight i'm being serious in the sense that like like you are the gayest person i've ever met in my life probably okay yeah i probably agree with that and People talk about a spectrum and everything and I'm like, and I am much more sexually fluid than you, you know?
Speaker 01:Yeah, that's an understatement.
Speaker 00:Yeah. And when people are like, you can't be 100% straight or gay, I'm like, but I feel like you really are 100% gay. I feel like I really am too. Whereas the straights, I don't believe anyone is 100% straight. You know what I mean? Like, I've never met someone that I'm like, yes, For sure, they're 100%. Ever. Ever.
Speaker 01:Ever.
Speaker 00:Just like energetically, you can feel that in someone, right? I think
Speaker 01:I've met 100% straight people. No, no, no.
Speaker 00:No, no. Really? You'll have to tell me who after. You just think
Speaker 01:everyone is...
Speaker 00:Open.
Speaker 01:Open.
Speaker 00:Yes. It's like I do... Open to the possibility. I believe in 100% gayness, not 100% straightness. That's all I'm saying. I
Speaker 01:love it. I mean, yeah. I mean, you've been saying this forever and especially when you were coming out, you're like... This is just– everyone's gay, right? I mean, everyone has queerness in them.
Speaker 00:Our friend was asking me about this, speaking of our weekend, over the weekend. And she was like, oh, when– she was asking some stuff about my coming out. And she's like, oh, like, when did you know? And I was like, well, yeah, like, I kind of dated a girl for a while. But I still thought I was straight. Like, you– this is what I'm saying. I thought that you do those things with girls, but you're still straight. But I just realized– No. No. You don't hook up with your friends. No. Those two things don't go together.
Speaker 01:Definitely not.
Speaker 00:So, yeah, I'm not falling for that. I like
Speaker 01:your propaganda that you're not falling for. What do you got? Okay. The first one I have is... So I'm a big brekkie girly. You know this about me. Yes. And I am not going to fall for avocado toast for breakfast ever. Come for me. I don't care what you say. I'm not having it for breakfast. Your arms are crossed. This is my energy when it comes to avocado toast. I want protein. I don't want just like a piece of bread with some avocado on it. Don't get me wrong. It tastes good. But like, why is it so expensive? It's like $20 at a restaurant. Like, why are we spending so much money on this? In a restaurant. Absolutely ridiculous. Out of control. So no, I'm not falling for it.
Speaker 00:What if there's egg on it? No. So you have protein. No. That's a clear answer. I do not want that. I thought you were going to say like a smoothie or smoothie bowl. You hate those even more. I don't want that either. You don't even want to give me a
Speaker 02:smoothie
Speaker 00:ever. Look at how angry you're getting just thinking about it. Breakfast is not a smoothie
Speaker 01:or avocado toast. Or a chia pudding. Fuck no. God damn it. Don't give me these things. okay i want to start the day with like some serious protein
Speaker 00:yeah we know you're a little joe brogan okay
Speaker 01:okay so that's number one and number two is
Speaker 00:and
Speaker 01:don't get me wrong because
Speaker 00:i don't even preface it just go for it honey you got this i don't don't preface it no just say say it with your whole chest
Speaker 01:okay the people that are out there blaming mercury retrograde for all the shit that's going wrong in their lives. I'm not falling for this, okay? And I'm an astrology person. I think it's great. I love it. I think it's super fun. Well,
Speaker 00:you're obviously not if you don't believe in Mercury retrograde. If you're out there believing
Speaker 01:everything that's going on in your life in Mercury retrograde, I'm like, take some accountability for your life.
Speaker 00:Yeah, yeah. Fair enough. And now I know why you were trying to preface it. It's because Lex, our producer, you're wanting to apologize to her. She's like, what do you mean you don't believe in that?
Speaker 01:I'm sorry. I actually am not sorry. Yeah. But I'm getting very heated about this because I'm like, what is it? I'll be like at a restaurant and just hearing people talk about this. I'm like, take some accountability for your life. Yeah. Like it can be a reason. Like you showed up to the airport late. Like that was your fault. Like, come on, this is not Rookery Retrograde's fault. You are bad at like timing and planning.
Speaker 00:And also like, why did you also show up late five months before when it wasn't in Retrograde? It's like, that just seems like your personality. Yeah. Okay.
Speaker 01:I get that. I get that. And my last one is... Maybe coming for you a little bit. Coming for me. But, okay, you know the influencers that are like, if you do this eight-step morning or evening routine, like, your life is going to be a million times better. Are you trying to say I do that? And, like, part of this is mouth tape. Why does it have to include mouth tape every night? And I'm just like, I've tried it. I don't get the hype. You liked it. I'm not falling for it. You liked it. You just ran out. No. That's literally what happened. of mouth tape. Well, then give it back to me. I just got over it. I'm like, I don't see any material benefits to this. It's just adding another step into my life that I don't need. I want simple. I don't need an eight-step routine to make my life better. My life is awesome.
Speaker 00:It doesn't sound that awesome because you sound pretty mad. I'm so
Speaker 01:mad
Speaker 00:because I'm not going to fall for this. I'm telling you. Okay. The people
Speaker 01:were like, I have to start at 4.30 in the morning and do these eight things before I
Speaker 00:even start my day. You mouth tape in the morning. You mouth tape at night. I know, but I'm saying– And that takes– Or
Speaker 01:the
Speaker 00:nighttime routines. Approximately five seconds. It's the last thing I do right before I fall asleep is put it on. Yeah. That's not that crazy. And I like it because I will open my mouth when I sleep, and it actually hurts my jaw when I sleep with my mouth open.
Speaker 01:Yeah.
Speaker 00:So it's partially pain management, okay? And I feel like everyone's breath smells and tastes like ass when you wake up. Like, it just will. Always. But I do feel it is better with the mouth tape for me. I do, too. my mouth is closed yeah when it's open it feels so gross you do you i'm going to but i don't
Speaker 01:i don't want these like eight step morning routines to make my day i'll do a cold plunge and sauna and all this
Speaker 00:well that's different than i've got to write it
Speaker 01:in a journal and do all these things otherwise don't have a horrible day i'm like come on i don't no we don't need this like whatever
Speaker 00:you do you don't come for my journal either
Speaker 01:okay so that's what i got i feel like i'm like i my anger is coming out today
Speaker 00:yes I can feel that just in time for us to talk about our fertility journey yeah is this just gonna be like a feminine rage episode no I don't I hope not
Speaker 01:I don't know why I was feeling really spicy during that that whole segment
Speaker 00:yeah
Speaker 01:it started with the
Speaker 00:avocado toast it started
Speaker 01:with the crossed arms
Speaker 00:it was like alright this is the thing yeah so okay where do we begin I
Speaker 01:think we begin with the fact that with the beginning we fell in love and got married
Speaker 00:no no and then
Speaker 01:we decided we wanted to expand our our family and bring more love into the world
Speaker 00:okay so yes if you would like to hear about that beautiful love story then you can tune into episode one if you would like to hear a sad story you can tune into this episode right now no it's not all sad there is sadness in it trigger warning pregnancy loss and everything if that's not something that you want to hear about then probably skip this one but also we really the intention is to be informative because whether you're a queer person who's going to be going through fertility or just somebody who has to use fertility clinics to go through conception then hopefully this can help to clarify some stuff give you some insights things to look out for things that we have helped us that we've regretted, you know, all of that kind of stuff. I think it's so valuable to share those experiences.
Speaker 01:Yeah. We've been through a lot and we now have a lot of knowledge that we didn't have three years ago. So we can definitely share some of that.
Speaker 00:So we did start three years ago with just all of the preliminary, all the testing and stuff. There's so much fun testing you get to do. Yeah. But actually, actually where we should really start is the sperm. We should. Because everyone always wants to know yeah everyone always wants to know how you decide about a sperm donor which I will say we don't mind answering this question but I think some people do and sometimes people ask I don't know I just if you're curious about it like maybe just feel into each person's individual experience before asking because some people can get a little that doesn't it feels too invasive for them you know so I'll just say that but we're we're doing a podcast podcast about it so obviously we don't give a shit we will tell you yeah we're happy to share okay so how did we pick a sperm donor
Speaker 01:well I think we we tried to think about some of the things that were important to us but um which we can go into but with one thing that's like really nice about the sperm donor process is there's all these different sperm banks right and when you go on these sperm banks they they give you a lot of different like optionality for you to search for and look into and so that like made the process a lot easier but I think some of the things that were really important to us was one like ideally we wanted them to have somewhat similar features to me so I'm not really involved biologically in the process whatever so we're using your eggs and so for me it was important that I was like okay well I want this person to maybe have like olive skin or like dark hair like some similar features so that's like I
Speaker 00:feel somewhat represented yeah yeah and but even to just backtrack a little bit more we went with a cryobank instead of somebody that we knew that is really the first step in what you decide so there's obviously major pros and cons to both it's such a personal choice and just because we decided to do a cryobank doesn't mean that obviously you have to yeah um it's so so individual to the couple and or to even if it's a single person who's deciding to do it you know obviously a huge benefit of going with someone that you know is that it is free versus when you're paying for sperm that's free and
Speaker 01:you kind of know what you're getting because you know the person you know their personality you know you know
Speaker 00:well you can also talk to them down the line medical histories that you know like if so there's a lot of benefits to that um there was just nobody really in our life that we felt that that felt like a good fit No. There was a few people that were kind of there that we thought about, but it was just ultimately not it for us.
Speaker 01:Yeah, we thought about it and it's like we know people who have chosen people who are in their lives either actively like a family member or a friend. And for us, it didn't feel like the right option for a variety of reasons. Because
Speaker 00:that is something I'll say that some lesbian couples do that to where– If you wanted to be biologically involved, I could have asked one of your brothers. I know. For their sperm. We don't want their DNA. We don't. You have their DNA. I love my brothers, but I'm sorry. Don't worry. I don't think they're going to be listening to this podcast. So, but you also share their DNA. So you're really just criticizing yourself. It's fine. No, but some lesbian couples do that. So the both couples are biologically involved, represented. Yeah. That was just not something that we felt comfortable doing or just wanted you're like it's just
Speaker 01:it just creates I think when you have somebody you're choosing in your life I think what we had a hard time coming to terms with is like ultimately you know that person is their father and you know by DNA and when we know that like our child will have questions of like who they are where they come from regardless of whether they're adopted whether we use a sperm donor whether we use someone in their life and I imagine like almost like getting to that age and they find out, oh yeah, it's your uncle Joe, you know, who's your dad. Like that would be extremely confusing and also might feel like you were withholding this large secret from them. And for us, it just felt like something that added more complication than we wanted.
Speaker 00:Right. And I don't know. I know that tons of families navigate it all the time, but it just– yeah, it was– but I think on top of that, there was nobody in our lives– we already knew– you knew you didn't want to– involve the brothers. Okay. We already knew that. And then when we're looking outside of the family, it was just kind of, there was just nobody that we felt that a hundred percent yes about. And it's such a major decision. It's not something you should be like, yeah, probably we can make it work. We'll figure it out when the time comes. Like that is just such a big decision. So we didn't want to take it lightly and ultimately decided to go with the cryobank. And so, yeah, like you were saying, the cool thing about the cryobanks is that they're I don't even know if it is cool. It's just weird. It is honestly weird. It's a weird
Speaker 01:experience for sure.
Speaker 00:you basically are online shopping for sperm but it is kind of like that meets hinge or something where you're like going through these profiles and you're swiping and you can listen to voice notes and you can you can see their baby
Speaker 01:pictures their adult pictures personality tests about them obviously their family medical history like yeah like they'll leave like a little like voice note for you for the intended parents like there's a lot of information
Speaker 00:yeah
Speaker 01:I you you learn like you know what whether they graduated college or like what do they do for a career like there's a lot of information about the person I kind of like it is a weird process that get your mind around but I liked having the information
Speaker 00:no for sure it's better so typically with the different cryobanks they'll give you just sort of like a baseline of information for free and then when you want more which we did then you have to pay the fee and then like a membership fee a membership fee and then there's only but not everybody who don't has provided all of that information either so it's like even though you paid the membership fee you might see significantly less profiles now because you are seeing the ones who have all of the things that you want so yeah the information was super helpful but it's just it is a weird process you have to kind of just try to make it fun and like okay we're doing this we're picking out our sperm today and just make it cute and kind of silly but obviously it is serious it is a huge decision But you have to just try to have fun with it in a way, you know, because if you think about it too much, it just– I don't know.
Speaker 01:So how did we ultimately pick the donor that we went with?
Speaker 00:I mean, based on the things that you said, a lot of it had to do with looks to where it would look like, okay, this is what it might look like if we actually both biologically combined and had a child. And then also partially personality too. Definitely. They were also a Pisces. Yeah. They were also a math person.
Speaker 01:Yeah. Finance person. A finance person. They just had good energy. Like I liked their voice, like their voice note that they left. Yeah. It's like good energy.
Speaker 00:Yeah. And of course, we're looking at things like medical and all of that too. But keep in mind that most of the time, the people that you're even seeing in these banks, they're not going to– they will already kind of be like the best of the best when it comes to sperm because if they are having any major medical thing, usually they don't get approved i think it's something like
Speaker 01:less about five percent of people who donate they can actually use the sperm i didn't know
Speaker 00:that yeah okay yeah so of course we're looking at the medical stuff but it's not it's kind of a given that okay this is going to be aligned so we picked out sperm and then started doing the initial testing and in the initial testing you're doing blood work ultrasound they're checking to see how many follicles you have follicles and eggs it's kind of like an interchangeable term um so they're just making sure that you still have follicles i started when i was 34 so i was almost at that geriatric age you know so they're just making sure that everything is all good that your lining is looking how they want it to look so you're doing vaginal ultrasounds blood work and then you have to do the worst thing in the world which is a saline ultrasound oh that was brutal for you And they're going to lie to you and they're going to be like, yeah, you might feel a little cramping. It's not that bad. It is. It is that bad. And I know that I'm not alone because I had no idea what to expect. It's just called a saline ultrasound. And so I was like, oh, it's an ultrasound, like whatever. I didn't know going into it, it was going to be painful. And I asked them like right before they did it, because I also have a history of sexual assault and stuff. And so it's like I can get very triggered if there's any sort of pain when I'm going through that kind of stuff. You have a
Speaker 01:lot of hospital trauma as well.
Speaker 00:That, I mean, that is the list. And so I'm just like, okay, I like to double check before. They're like, no, no, yeah, you might feel a little pinch. And then I was, I threw up while they were doing it. I was in so much pain. It was awful. And after they're like, that's so crazy. We've never seen anyone respond like that before. And I knew they were lying because I'm like, there's just no possible way that I'm the only person that this has ever hurt. And so I put, I I posted on my Instagram and I asked, like, has anyone ever had this? Every single person that responded to me was like, that was the worst thing in the world. I hate it. So I'm like, oh, really? You're going to try to say that? It's so annoying.
Speaker 01:Even
Speaker 00:one of your
Speaker 01:friends was like, oh, no, they put me under
Speaker 00:for that. Yeah, yeah. They didn't even offer you a Tylenol. No, I don't think it's typical to put someone under. But since I've had them other times, they have given me Valium or given me things to kind of try to relax me a little bit more. The last time I had one, She did say, I will put you under next time because it is really bad. And I'm like, please do. I will welcome the nap. So when they're doing that, they're looking inside of your uterus to make sure that everything looks good inside because that's where the embryo implants. This is also a biology lesson in case you haven't figured that out. And it's really common for women to have polyps inside. It's kind of like a skin tag. Or fibroids. Or fibroids. fibroids are those inside I
Speaker 01:don't know honestly I don't really know the anatomy very well yeah
Speaker 00:I'm like wait what would
Speaker 01:you
Speaker 00:shame me for all the time yeah I know nothing I was gonna say if you hadn't just finished your period you would have no idea when it was coming you still probably forgot that you just finished it I did yeah I
Speaker 01:don't know when
Speaker 00:that happened literally earlier today I was like honey you also had a really bad period this month and you're like no I didn't it was literally last week I was like yes you did how could you already forget that so so yeah they're looking for polyps I had polyps polyps are typically very benign but when you're going through a fertility clinic they are optimizing your vessel to be as prime as possible for fertility because that improves their rates ultimately and obviously it's supposed to give you what you want as well but I think it's really for their own interest I think so too and And, you know, there's plenty of people who get pregnant accidentally or unintentionally or all the just straight people getting pregnant who have polyps. And it's very, very common. However, there's also this thing that goes through your head that you're like, but what if I don't remove it? And then I have a miscarriage or then I, you know, the pregnancy doesn't work. I'm always going to be wondering, is it because of that polyp? So it makes you just want to do it. So you don't have to have those thoughts.
Speaker 01:Yeah. Thank you.
Speaker 00:So I did the removal and that was...
Speaker 01:That was rough. I mean, I was in the waiting room and I was just confused what was taking so long. And I kept going to the front desk because I knew something was wrong and they weren't allowing me to see you. And I was in the waiting room for
Speaker 00:hours. It's supposed to be a 15-minute procedure, super fast. And you do go under for it. I was back there for two hours. At
Speaker 01:least.
Speaker 00:Yeah. So this is the other thing. We were living in Florida at the time. And this was at a clinic in Boca Raton, which is a very pretty wealthy part of South Florida. At the top IVF clinic in the state. Top IVF, like very nice facility. And there was some shady shit happening there. Remember how they were like, oh, well, if you do the anesthesia, you have to pay out of pot leak. You have to pay cash. You have to pay cash. What?
Speaker 01:And there was no record
Speaker 00:or receipt. There was no. record of me having this procedure because we had to pay for it in cash so after I had had it done the reason I had stayed there for so long is because I woke up in a lot of pain and they gave me a shitload of fentanyl and my blood pressure dropped so low that they had to invert me on the table like flip me on the table I'm strapped on the table for two hours trying to get my blood pressure
Speaker 01:to the hospital
Speaker 00:but they couldn't because then they would have to explain that they just did this thing what
Speaker 01:and they would refuse to tell me what was going on
Speaker 00:yeah and i'm so out of it because i'm now high as hell on fentanyl so i don't even know what's happening i'm like what's happening like i'm just like floating around in the bed and i had no idea that there i didn't even know that your blood pressure could go that low genuinely
Speaker 01:yeah
Speaker 00:um it was not good it was not good i
Speaker 01:think one of the themes that you're gonna hear as we talk about this is that trust No one. IVF clinics... are businesses at the end of the day it's I mean obviously all medical care is but IVF clinics especially are businesses and it's like they are cash cow businesses and they are optimizing for money not necessarily like the best interest of the patient that's the experience that we've had we've been to now so many IVF clinics so it's really really important to like find someone that will you trust and will listen to you
Speaker 00:well I don't think it's just IVF clinics I think it's women's health you know and you see that just in women's health at your OB at so it's just it's really common for women to be dismissed as being sensitive as being dramatic all of all the stuff that I was saying of how they treated me when I'm like no I'm in a lot of pain I just puked next to the bed and they're like that's so weird oh what that's so strange you must be really sensitive the amount of times and I'm like I am sensitive I know that and also this pain is real and People can be very dismissive. So I think the most important thing is make sure that you have an advocate with you. If you're doing it alone, have a friend go with you. If you are doing it with a partner, try to have your partner with you at as many of the appointments as possible because you're also in this heightened, vulnerable, maybe scared state, maybe triggered state, whatever it is. And so you might not always be able to think clearly enough to ask the questions and everything. And it's like you need to really have For sure. You know, which I think a lot of people, women feel that, you know, like I said, I was 34. I was about to be geriatric.
Speaker 01:We waited a couple months. But yeah, the first time we tried, it was like two weeks or so before your 35th birthday.
Speaker 00:Yeah.
Speaker 01:And I think that's super normal that a lot of people feel that pressure, especially around the age 35, because we're told, yeah, we're told, yeah, you're now geriatric at 35, which is like mind blowing because you feel so young at 35. I just have to say that and also there's you know there is such a trend now of people having you know kids later and later in their late 30s or even into their 40s but there's still really you feel that pressure of like we need to get pregnant at 35
Speaker 00:and I will say this is this is something that I will say is that it's like it is real the biological deterioration of what's happening in your body is real it's not it's like yes we have the patriarchy and the misogyny and all these things are telling women they get less valuable as they age that is separate but it is real that your egg count goes down and your egg quality diminished like those things are real so I just think that that is important because I think sometimes people think it's this because of modern medicine which is super helpful we can have babies later and later that it's this like sure thing and it's like well and it's also harder on your body the older you get we're also now entering perimenopause your hormones are already going to be shipped so it's just I'm not saying I'm not trying to pressure people to do it before they want but it is like there is some validity to that happening so when we first decided to try we started with IUIs which are inseminations so not just like turkey based or shooting it up there it's a little bit more exact than that where they're inserting the sperm into your cervix so usually it's like if you're having sex with a dude the sperm is in your vagina and then it has to make its way into the cervix and then implant. So this is supposed to kind of help it get there a little bit faster and find that mature egg faster. And we decided to start with IUIs because everything was good. They're like, you don't need to do IVF. You're still healthy. Your egg count is super high. All your levels are
Speaker 01:super high. Everything's good. So we thought it's a lot cheaper to start with
Speaker 00:IUI. It's way cheaper and it's also obviously– not as hard on your body you're not doing all these injections and everything
Speaker 01:it's really about the cost of the sperm essentially because the thing with IUI is that it really has like more of a about a 10% chance of working yeah and so you know you just have to be prepared for that piece of it but it's a lot cheaper
Speaker 00:so it's cheaper and it's also just less it's less of all the appointments and that you so we did it medicated you can do it non-medicated meaning you just try the same way that you would do at At home, you track when you're ovulating. You go in and shoot up the sperm when you're ovulating. If you do it medicated, then there's different medications that essentially ensure that you could have one, if not multiple, mature follicles and just kind of supercharge that process.
Speaker 01:And also they can help control the timing a bit because they'll do a trigger shot, which basically means that you will ovulate. And so they can time it really nicely in terms of when they actually put the sperm in. Instead of having to guess. And ensure that the egg is dropping
Speaker 00:at the same time. How much is one vial of sperm again?
Speaker 01:It's about $1,800. Yeah.
Speaker 00:It's super expensive. Super, super expensive. But still much cheaper than IVF. But it's not the same as if you're trying at home where- And an IUI costs
Speaker 01:about like $800. Yeah.
Speaker 00:Yeah.
Speaker 01:So to try one time, yeah, it's close to $2,500.
Speaker 00:Yeah. Versus like if you're trying at home- in your ovulation window, you just try to bang it out as many times as you can while you're ovulating. But that's why they really want to optimize it when, you know, if you're doing an IUI. So we started with IUIs. We did eight of them. I got pregnant with two of them. And we have no children currently. So that tells you how that went. The first one that we did, which was medicated, I also had a very– and I did Clomid– which is a really common medication that they give you. I had a very bad reaction to it mentally. Like I got horrible depression after. Which
Speaker 01:is really common.
Speaker 00:Really common. And also they'll be same thing. They'll be like, oh, that's so weird. Never heard that before.
Speaker 01:But I mean, these things are very like they really disrupt your hormones, which in turn can create, you know, bouts of depression. Especially, yeah. It was really challenging for you.
Speaker 00:Yeah. Right. from the start it was really really tough for sure especially because i didn't i didn't correlate that it was from that medication because the clomid you literally take three pills like that's all it is so i didn't even i just didn't even think about it and then i realized so then we switched to non-medicated iuis and so i got pregnant with one medicated and one non-medicated and then it just wasn't happening and at this point i mean whatever you do the math i don't know how much that is but we're like we could have paid for ivf at this point that's eight IUIs and then we also did one try at home so in case you haven't noticed we bought a shit load of sperm we bought a lot of sperm the try at home that we did was really fun because we also didn't have a home we were staying in an Airbnb at the time we had
Speaker 01:sold our house
Speaker 00:and we were staying at different Airbnbs all over the country trying to figure out where we wanted to live so we ordered the sperm to an Airbnb and it shows up in this like cryo tank it reminded me of Austin Powers like it was just like you you had to have oven mitts to pull it out and you had to have sunglasses on because all the dry eyes and like it was just so dramatic and so hilarious
Speaker 01:it was awesome
Speaker 00:and it was it was just nice because it had been so clinical up until that point so it was nice to just be we were kind of like silly and playful and it was obviously a lot more intimate and it was just yeah nice to have that experience even if it didn't work
Speaker 01:yeah it was it was just like it was at that point we'd been trying for almost a year about I think and yeah almost a year and like you said just to the the IVF clinic setting is it's not it's sterile it's not romantic there's like no fun vibes around this that's like one of the hardest parts about this is because it's like we we want to bring bring more love into the world where you know we have a great marriage and it's like we love each other so much and then you're like in this like sterile environment it's like medical nobody likes hospitals nobody likes clinics
Speaker 00:it just doesn't feel good it doesn't feel loving it doesn't feel good
Speaker 01:and so yeah and there's like anxiety around all these you know being in these settings and it's just really hard and so to like have the opportunity to try at home yeah it was like it was really fun
Speaker 00:yeah I'm glad that we did it even if it was you know the The chances of it working was so low. It was a long shot. But it was fun. And then so around a little over a year into doing IUIs, then we decided to switch to IVF. And so then we were like, well, maybe you can get biologically involved and we'll use your eggs because– That was the plan because you had
Speaker 01:had a rough year. You've been going through this whole process. It was not easy. We lost two pregnancies. And there was something nice about like, oh my gosh, maybe I can contribute here.
Speaker 00:Yeah. Because I was– especially after having that reaction to just the few pills of Clomid, I was really scared about the hormones. Really scared about–
Speaker 01:yeah, because doing the egg retrieval, it's a lot more intensive. It's a couple of weeks of shots. It's a whole
Speaker 00:process. It's just a whole other step that you have to do. And so– and it's like I've always had depression and hormonal sensitivity and everything. So I was always– I was just nervous about it. And then also logistics. Logistically, we're like, well, we have insurance and we have a certain amount of fertility benefits and you obviously hadn't used any of yours. No. And I was maxing out of mine basically. So we're like, okay, you can, you know, it is also logistically kind of nice too.
Speaker 01:Yeah. And it was kind of exciting for me because I knew that I didn't want to carry. Like it's just not something that I want to do. It doesn't feel
Speaker 00:like. I also knew that I didn't want you to carry because you have a bad case of man flu and every single time you get a paper cut like I'll hear about it for a year so I was like if I'm taking care of this bitch while she's pregnant for nine months you'll kill me we're gonna get a
Speaker 01:divorce before it happens 100% you would have been a nightmare even if I wanted to it would have been a horrible idea but I didn't want that but I was like oh this could be kind of cool to contribute you know in this way but unfortunately that didn't work out the way that we hoped it
Speaker 00:would.
Speaker 01:And that, you know, throughout this whole process of the last few years, there's been a lot of grief and a lot of like acceptance.
Speaker 00:A common theme is it didn't work out how we thought it would. Yes.
Speaker 01:This has been our entire processes. This is not how we expected things to go, but here we are. I
Speaker 00:mean, we literally thought we would be trying for our second baby right now, which is so crazy to think about. Have you ever thought about that? That's so, and we're just still over here laughing about, you
Speaker 01:Yeah. Maybe
Speaker 00:one day. Maybe one day.
Speaker 01:Yeah. Things don't always work out the way you want them to or plan them to. And so, yeah, it's been a lesson of letting go and patience.
Speaker 00:But not a lesson of letting them. And supporting each
Speaker 01:other. Not letting them, letting go.
Speaker 00:Because back to the medical, you know, needing an advocate and everything, the reason that we weren't able to do the egg retrieval for you, you were doing the initial testing. They'd put me on birth control. They'd already put you on birth control. And then I started doing
Speaker 01:blood work
Speaker 00:two weeks later. And you were not
Speaker 01:feeling
Speaker 00:good immediately
Speaker 01:on
Speaker 00:the birth control. I was
Speaker 01:depressed, like very depressed. Fatigue. Extremely fatigued. I could barely get out of bed in the morning. I could barely do anything. Yeah. I'd never had birth control my entire life because hello,
Speaker 00:I'm the gayest person in the world. We get it. Who needs that? We get it. But yeah, so they're doing your blood work. work at the same time and some of your levels came back abnormal some of your TSH yeah so I had said like no that's not okay and they were like no no I'm sure it's fine so anyways that'll be $15,000 because they were just wanting to move us or however much it was move us along to the next phase which was getting all the injections and like they wanted you to still do the retrieval and I said no like you need to retest her because that's a major issue if her THS levels are... TSH. Yeah, why? I'm a little... It's your thyroid levels. Yeah. So they retested. So we retested and my thyroid levels doubled. Came back worse. Doubled. Because it turns out the birth control made everything worse. Yes. So very long story short, well, I forced you then to go to an endocrinologist. They still told me that I
Speaker 01:could still do it.
Speaker 00:Yeah.
Speaker 01:But recommended I talk to an endocrinologist.
Speaker 00:No, I recommend... recommended you well you
Speaker 01:recommended so i went and i i met with an endocrinologist and we did really in-depth blood testing over the course of about two months like we did series and series of blood panels going really deep and ultimately i got diagnosed with two autoimmune conditions they weren't sure you know what was the cause at first so there was like i was getting ct scans there was fears that maybe it was a tumor causing it but ultimately was autoimmune related and being caused by these antibodies in my system that were attacking both my thyroid and my adrenal glands and was the cause of so many of the problems that i've been experiencing for the last several years um and tell them why you're laughing i'm laughing because my wife had been telling me that something was wrong for a very long time and i was like not being a good patient well
Speaker 00:this is what we like to say about alex we call it staring at the curtains so this is a little story about how that phrase came to be. We have this beautiful office at our place in Nicaragua. It's all glass. It looks out at the ocean. Stunning, gorgeous, beautiful. That's where you work every day. The other side of it is curtains because the sun shines in and so you can't see anything. When they set the desk up for you in the office, it was facing the curtains.
Speaker 01:Instead of the
Speaker 00:ocean. Instead of the ocean because they just didn't understand. And you were like, I'm just going to This is just my life now. Like, it's fine. I'm just going to stare this way. And I went up there. I was like, why are you facing this direction? And you're like, what do you mean? You didn't even notice. I was like, this is literally an office with a view staring at the ocean this way. And you were just like, oh, I just like you just accept things almost too much. I do.
Speaker 01:I do. It's really bad. It's I'm really grateful.
Speaker 00:So it's like you have these symptoms. And I'm like, hey, you're staring at the curtains. Like, come on. You can't do that right now. Like, you're just accepting this as your life. Yeah. And you're not old. You're not dying. It doesn't have to be like this.
Speaker 01:I know. So I got diagnosed with two autoimmune conditions. And that was really challenging at the time for a few reasons. Number one was because it was like I now have these lifelong conditions. And one of which is very serious. They're both serious. But one is extremely serious. And I have to live on medication for the rest of my life. And I... It also meant that Contributing to the fertility process would be extremely challenging for my body to go through.
Speaker 00:She said, maybe we can check back in in six months if things have stabilized and everything. But it was not an option anymore. It was not an option at the time. And also, she said, even if it does work, you're probably going to have to do multiple egg retrievals because you had a much lower follicle count anyway. And so, again, just cost, what that's going to do to your body, everything.
Speaker 01:Yeah. I mean, just me being on birth control. for a couple of weeks, I felt like I was dying. So then trying to like imagine taking more hormones, like it was just, I didn't know how that was possibly gonna happen. So there was a lot of grief in one, accepting the fact that I had these autoimmune conditions, which there was grief, but there was also relief knowing what was happening and also being able to kind of take control of my life and take the right steps to be healthier and be in a much better position, which I am thankfully now, like over a year later, doing so much better she has eyebrows now i have eyebrows now it's amazing she didn't have eyebrows before and yeah i was literally like losing all my hair
Speaker 00:losing your hair you had sciatica i mean all of these symptoms you wouldn't even think to associate with hormones well i thought i was dying but i
Speaker 01:really thought i was dying
Speaker 00:yes you're so much healthier now
Speaker 01:and so there was there was like grief and relief in that whole piece of it but then there was grief around accepting the fact that i wasn't going to be able to participate in the fertility journey which I'd like just started to get really excited about
Speaker 00:yeah and I feel like you also felt like you were letting me down yeah I was let down not at you but I was just angry at the whole situation because then I'm like now it's all on me again and we had this kind of tight timeline because I we always had retreats and travels and stuff happening so we're having to like stay on pace if we're wanting to get this stuff done yeah you know I
Speaker 01:just kind of felt a little bit useless in a way
Speaker 00:yeah
Speaker 01:because and I know that I'm sure that there's other people who do feel this way out there and it's like it's a hard thing to grapple with but you're like okay not not only can I like not carry a child I can't like even contribute my eggs like it's just like you just I felt useless and I know how hard it was for you yeah for the past year it was a lot to go through
Speaker 00:yeah and so I'm I'm also kind of processing that but also wanting to be there for you and meanwhile also jumping straight into the egg retrieval because we're trying to stay on this timeline so So what I will say of this whole process, people were like, the egg retrieval is the worst thing ever. And this was the other reason I didn't want to do it is I was like, I'm going to put my body through hell and then do the transfer and then hopefully be pregnant. So I wanted to just like give my body a break. But what I will say is for me, I don't know if it's because my expectation of the retrieval was that it was going to be the worst, most horrible, painful thing ever because so many people had said that or if I did just have a really easy experience. But either way, That was like the best experience for me out of anything. It was amazing. And the outcome. I was really
Speaker 01:worried before and it was like, honestly, you
Speaker 00:handled it so well. I also decided to find a psychiatrist before and started antidepressants for the first time in my life. And I think that was the best thing I could have ever done, genuinely.
Speaker 01:Yeah.
Speaker 00:Because it was getting real dark. Yeah. I had done another medicated IUI cycle with a different kind of medication and same thing just like horrible horrible adverse reaction I was like I can't do this like this and it's not it really
Speaker 01:it really really helped you in a like in a very dark time and I'm so grateful that you did that as well and I'm so grateful that like the egg retrieval process went so well we got so many
Speaker 00:embryos that's what I was saying it's like not just the process it was also the outcome yeah and something I'll say too just about the psychiatrist quickly is I also found somebody that specialized in psychiatry for fertility which was really nice because you know she just she actually had worked as a fertility nurse for years before she ended up becoming a psychiatrist and it was just nice because it was like she fully she understood the whole process she knew where i was at she knew all the medication she just knew everything and she knew how that impacts yeah and validated and their mental
Speaker 01:health exactly so that was because it's not something you can control this isn't some like situational depression. It's like when your hormones are out of whack and out of balance and surging, it's like you cannot control what is happening in your brain.
Speaker 00:Yeah. And it's really not something that a lot of any fertility doctors that we've ever had have ever talked about that. No. So it was just really nice to have that validation too. So I think what she had told me is people who are more prone to PMDD are usually more prone to this being an issue with fertility drugs and everything, which I don't personally had pmdd but i'm just saying to anyone out there if that is you then it's maybe just worth talking to a doctor about before because the mental health is so connected obviously to the physical health and it's like it's just such a roller coaster so you really have to take care of both um yeah we got a lot of healthy embryos out of
Speaker 01:it yeah and so the process is they retrieve the eggs and so then you kind of know how many eggs you get and then though they obviously combine that with the sperm and those turn into embryos and then they see how many of those embryos grow to a certain size after however many days and survive and then from there they'll take those embryos and then they go through that what that what is called pgta testing where they'll test for what they're capable of testing of like to look for any chromosomal abnormalities and then what is remaining are the chromosomal normal embryos by the end of it and And luckily for us, we had a really high number of embryos kind of make it through that whole process and be normal.
Speaker 00:Which was all the more reason, again, they were like, oh, see, you have nothing wrong fertility-wise. Everything's so healthy. So healthy. You have such a high number. This is, oh, no problem. And so I had gone into IVF. I don't know if it was just because we knew that the stats for IUI were so much lower. We knew that going into it. And we're like, it's okay. It's okay if we start a little slower. But I went into IVF thinking like well now it's definitely gonna work because it's IVF and that was also just stupid again expectations play such a role in how you experience everything you know so yeah because
Speaker 01:they kind of do make it seem that way like oh yeah it's gonna like it should work on the first try if not the first try the second try for sure
Speaker 00:yeah that's the way
Speaker 01:that it's kind of like pitched
Speaker 00:yeah I don't know it just felt it felt so real yeah and so we do the first transfer last fall and that one just didn't work which what I will say is after having gone through several pregnancy losses I much prefer just a negative test honestly like I got to the point that I'm like I would rather it just not work than to work and then not work that's much worse you know so it's like a negative test sucks and it's hard but then literally two weeks later you try again you know or a month later that's so
Speaker 01:true because like once you get the positive result you're it's so hard to manage your expectations but there's still so much you have to get through to like feel like you're safe and it's like it's it's a really hard thing to go through and experience and of course anything can happen at any time so you're never like it's it's everything is out of your control you know and it's it's a really challenging like thing to try to support your partner through at the same time as well
Speaker 00:yeah I genuinely feel like we could probably do a whole episode just on on that with around pregnancy loss because I know that we don't have time to get into all of that today and it is so it's interesting to see how it is with two you know from my side and then also from your side um but anyways we do a second transfer and that one did take and that was like the best news ever of course and then the first rounds of all they're they're testing your blood to see your hgg levels and everything everything is super high they were like you might have twins it's so high like it you know everything is just looking amazing it was really exciting first ultrasound like yep everything looks good second ultrasound everything looks good third ultrasound they're like we should see a heartbeat at this point but they we had to do it a little bit early remember because we were leaving
Speaker 01:like I think like a few days or like a half like four or five days early
Speaker 00:and so they were like okay you should see it but it's also not that weird if you don't see it and there was a
Speaker 01:flicker
Speaker 00:yeah she was like okay hold your breaths i'm like holding my breath she's like has the freaking wand inside of me and it's like a little flicker on the screen she's like okay yeah see there but like you should go we were moving to southern california is what it was and so that's why we went early she's like go to the doctor once you get down there and it should be you should be able to see it at that time so we get this new house we move into our new place after like i said this whole time we've been in airbnbs around the country so we've had many many doctors all around the country we've been to multiple clinics we know all the things to ask when we're interviewing them everything and we we move into this house and i'm pregnant and this is our house that we're like oh we're gonna have this is like where our family is really like
Speaker 01:ready to set up a nursery yeah like we're ready to
Speaker 00:like that's why we got this size house this area everything was for this family you know and we're ready to settle and then four days after us moving in we go to the doctor There's no heartbeat. Yeah, there's no more heartbeat.
Speaker 01:Yeah, it was really hard because you get to this point where you're like– it's finally happening for us. And you had a lot of anxiety. Like you thought maybe something will go wrong, but I'm like, no, like nothing's going to go wrong. Like this is our time now, you know? I'm like trying to be supportive. And also I have so much hope and excitement. And then to be in that moment in the doctor's office and have that happen, obviously was extremely heartbreaking.
Speaker 00:Yeah. And again, I do think we'll probably do a full episode about miscarriage and everything because there's so much misinformation out there too you hear stories of someone being like and then i had a miscarriage but they don't talk about what that even means physically you know like what
Speaker 01:your body is going to go through afterwards
Speaker 00:there's so much a lot that happens you can probably see my hair is still freaking growing back because i have all these little like postpartum things just fluffing out here um because it still is it's it still is postpartum even if you don't carry a baby term so you have a lot of those same symptoms and all of that went on for several months for a very very long time it felt like the longest miscarriage ever which eventually got us to the point of me going to a doctor her doing that same god forsaken saline ultrasound and kept saying this isn't normal this isn't normal this is not normal that's all she kept saying to me and I'm by myself at this point
Speaker 01:which is for of all is extremely inappropriate.
Speaker 00:Yeah. Extremely inappropriate to say. And I was trying a new doctor. I was stoked. It was the first time I was going to have a woman. I wasn't with you, unfortunately. You weren't with me. You were out of the country. And I'm still really
Speaker 01:upset about that, but I would have said something that's extremely inappropriate.
Speaker 00:And then she tells me after, and this is one of the times she had given me Valium for the ultrasound because I was so anxious about it. So I'm also just like out of it. And she had said, she's like, yeah, you're going to have to do surrogacy like you can't have baby you can't have carry baby and so I'm like what you know okay obviously just in shambles as soon as I get home I have to take an uber home because I'm I couldn't drive myself because of this medication telling you I'm beside myself you know so distraught At this point, we are two and a half years into this process. So we have already looked into adoption. We've already looked into, we started at already looking into maybe this isn't going to work the way we thought it was going to work. So we had already been looking into these other options, luckily. So we were actually able to transition to surrogacy, I feel, relatively quickly because we had already kind of had been doing some research and everything. So I think we ended up signing up with an agency two weeks later or something. Yeah.
Speaker 01:And part of the reason why we picked surrogacy over adoption, there's a variety of reasons, but one was that we still had a lot of embryos that we wanted to use. We'd made a significant investment into that part of it, which is like when you go down the surrogacy path, if you donate the embryos, it is a significant part of the cost. Right. So we'd already made that investment and we Yeah. Yeah. And again, I
Speaker 00:think with timing, because we already had the embryos, we're like, well, we know this will be hopefully, assuming that it works, you know, faster. Adoption is a very, there's so many factors with adoption, but something people ask us all the time, like, why don't you adopt? Why don't you adopt? And it's like, I don't know what people think. It's not just easy to adopt. People make it seem like, why don't you just adopt then? It's super expensive. Extremely emotional. There are so many countries that don't allow gays to adopt. So I don't know, people that say this, I'm like, do you even know anything about adoption? It also is same as any kind of conception that isn't a man and a woman making a baby. There's a whole psychological part that comes with how you're raising this child. And there's so much that goes into it it's not just like oh we can't have kids let's just adopt it's not it's a huge decision it's a huge decision and I feel like people don't understand that and it's not off the table for us it's not off the
Speaker 01:table but it's not what we wanted to pursue at this time right and we felt more comfortable pursuing the surrogacy path and yeah it's a huge both of these are huge investments of you know money and time and yeah you get to a certain point where it's like you you realize the journey that you thought you were going to have you don't you're not having and And you kind of have to continue to accept new things and come to terms with what your reality is. And for us at this time, we felt most comfortable pursuing surrogacy.
Speaker 00:Yeah. So that's where we landed. That's where we're still at. And same thing about the miscarriage. I think we will do a full surrogacy episode because people have had so many questions about like, how does that work? You know, and that is a whole process we would love to explain. I'm hoping we can explain it with a pregnancy announcement as That would be ideal. But it has also been a very bumpy journey, I will say. And similar to what you were saying about the autoimmune stuff, it's like a grief and relief where it was really hard for me to accept that I'm not also going to be pregnant, you know? Yeah. process from the miscarriage because of the timeline because of like well now at this point I'm 36 almost 37 I'm now right I'm 37 how old am I yeah you're
Speaker 01:37 I never remember you still had a lot of healing left to do
Speaker 00:yeah and I felt like I really had to rush that because of my age basically and so it just is provided that relief of okay I can recover now and and so that's where we're at that's where we're at we're hoping for the best think fertile thoughts for I
Speaker 01:think the most important thing throughout this whole experience is I think the way we've come together over the last three years is like you know fertility challenges you know pregnancy losses these things can really put a strain on a relationship and a marriage and for us we've like really leaned into one another and it's made our marriage so much stronger to the point where it's like now I feel even more capable of bringing a child into this world because we've handled and navigated so much together. So I do feel like in a way it's like really prepared us to be amazing parents and like we really want this.
Speaker 00:Yeah. Yeah. I think I can imagine anyone going through any type of deep grief with their partner. It just– I mean, part of it maybe is a trauma bond too. I don't know. I'm like, is that good? I don't know. But it's like being able to navigate just challenge and deep challenge, like grief and loss with your partner. It is one of those things that makes or breaks a relationship. So, and it wasn't, it's like, we've of course still fought and snapped at each other and done, we haven't been perfect by any means, but it has really only strengthened our relationship. And yeah, I think ultimately we also have to have these moments where we're like we might never be able to have a baby and so having a super strong relationship feels really good as well like it doesn't feel empty you know it doesn't feel like but if we don't have a baby we won't be complete we feel so complete as we are and we just want to expand
Speaker 01:we want to expand our love bubble
Speaker 00:yeah we want to expand the love bubble it doesn't we don't need a child to complete us no you know so it's just it's it's been a process and if you're going through it we're so with you we get it
Speaker 01:so with you it's so challenging but yeah
Speaker 00:i just i think
Speaker 01:stay
Speaker 00:hopeful stay hopeful and also really take care of your mental health in it too like it's it's no joke it's so important treat it just as seriously as you would your prenatals and all the physical stuff you're doing take care of your mental health have an advocate try to find a doctor you love if you can That's not always possible depending on where you live. But yeah, just really listen to yourself. If something doesn't feel right, listen to that over the white coat syndrome thing. And yeah, that feels like a big– Exhale.
Speaker 01:Yeah. We haven't talked about a lot of this stuff in a while. No.
Speaker 00:It was harder than I thought to
Speaker 01:revisit some of it, to be honest. Yeah. But yeah, it's been a journey and I know it's not the end for us.
Speaker 00:Yeah. So let's lighten the mood.
Speaker 01:Yeah.
Speaker 00:It's time to lighten the mood. Who's the problem?
Speaker 01:Do you want me to go? You want me to go first? Who's the problem for you? Well, honey, I might be turning a little attention you away this week. So... One of my favorite things is in the middle of the day, post lunch, I like to have a little treat. Oh, God. Right? And your girl, she loves a Popsicle. I love Popsicles so much. I know I sound like I'm like six years old. And in a lot of ways, I am. I have childlike energy, but I love Popsicles. And, you know, I just really love to enjoy my Popsicles. And I love to be with my wife at the same time, if I can be.
Speaker 00:No,
Speaker 01:it's
Speaker 00:one or the other.
Speaker 01:I cannot eat a popsicle without even... Honey, what are you doing? Stop it! Why are you making those sounds? And it really detracts from my enjoyment of the popsicles. And so I want to know... is it me enjoying my popsicles the problem or is it you who has a phobia of like any sort of slurpage sounds
Speaker 00:slurpage exactly I don't even want to impersonate it because I'm not going to do that into a microphone and potentially make people unsubscribe just from the you can just imagine the slurps you know how you know how it sounds when a six year old eats a popsicle and that's my wife and it's not okay and so It is okay. The solution is eat your popsicle and then we can hang out. That isn't the solution. The problem is you like to eat like five back to back. So you'll be gone for like an hour just eating popsicles in another room. I'm like, why can't you just have one? And then we can hang out in 10 minutes.
Speaker 01:It's not fun. And you know what? I tried to be quiet with eating them, but it's physically impossible to not make one slurp sound in an entire popsicle session. Like, I don't know what to tell you. And I need you to just have a little bit more grace that's it's just never gonna
Speaker 00:happen but but I would like to know but we'll let the people go I know it's me I know it's me I'm I did rip the popsicle out of your hand the other day and throw it in the trash so I know I'm the problem okay you have this on record I know I'm the problem okay all right okay what's yours mine is in the same theme of the episode today which is it has to do with pregnancy and I Mm-hmm. who can't get pregnant in announcing her pregnancy and i'm not shading her because i i know why she's doing that it's because of and she's gonna get attacked yes and i feel like i can say this as an infertile person that i'm like i understand our community is sensitive and vulnerable okay and also you can't expect the world to constantly be catering to your needs like other people are allowed to get pregnant and they don't have to apologize for it
Speaker 01:no
Speaker 00:and it may me feel so sad for her because I'm like I she probably feels stressed about making her pregnancy announcement because she doesn't want people to get mad at her and this they probably still
Speaker 01:got mad at
Speaker 00:her probably they should it should just be celebrated like I'm sorry
Speaker 01:people are gonna get mad no matter what so it's like oh my god I feel so bad for her why would she do
Speaker 00:that I don't I don't I know why she would do that yeah you know but it's like I just I feel it made me feel really sad and so I was thinking yeah I guess you can of course Be sensitive and be considerate when you're posting stuff. We're not going to post rage bait just to upset people. But at the same time, you should be able to post a pregnancy announcement and not have to apologize that you're pregnant. But I've seen this multiple times since then. And I just think, let people be pregnant. I know it's not easy. Hello, I know that. And also, babies are pure, beautiful beings. Just let them come into the world. happily please please so who's the problem is it is it the audience or is it her it's
Speaker 01:obviously the internet's reaction yeah I wish I could influence the internet more well that's that's why we're here to be more positive
Speaker 00:by giving people problems to vote on every week tell us who the problem is pick a team pick a side exactly we'll
Speaker 01:shame you
Speaker 00:if you
Speaker 01:don't
Speaker 00:pick the right
Speaker 01:side yeah not
Speaker 00:really just kidding but we do want to know yeah we do want to know so go and vote in our stories or check out our posts and also thank you
Speaker 01:so much for all the reviews that you've been leaving because that's been amazing
Speaker 00:yeah and you can also tell us that we're the problem in the reviews if you want to as long as you
Speaker 01:still give
Speaker 00:us five stars
Speaker 01:but yeah we really appreciate it and you know definitely keep leaving reviews because we love reading them
Speaker 00:yeah we love you guys
Speaker 01:we love you
Speaker 00:see you next week thank you